Toyota to stop manufacturing in 2017

[korrupt]

Now Toyota is out. 2500 jobs gone.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/toyota-to-exit-australian-manufacturing-2500-jobs-to-go-20140210-32cl3.html

[CLUBRED]

Unions laid the blame for the announcement on Prime Minister Tony Abbott, saying the closure came as a result of the Coalition ‘‘refusing to support investment in Australia’’.

ALP supported the industry and we still lost Ford and Mitsubishi.

Everyone ceasing in an election year, should be fun to see union propaganda.

[Micks]

ALP supported the industry and we still lost Ford and Mitsubishi.

Everyone ceasing in an election year, should be fun to see union propaganda.

That said...There doesn't appear to be too much confidence here in Aust. atm as far as the Car industry is concerned?? Or is it just a coincidence!

[Ausmartin1]

Well the general public could not care less about Australian car manufacturing or the over perked employees whether this is true or not.
They are rejoicing looking forward to a level import field.

Mean while I feel sad in my heart once again watching another demise.
Amazing what Australians ' once upon a time' were able to achieve.

The adds on this site viewing - Great wall ad. Just says it all.
Cheep Cheep is all that matters for people who in general even struggle with putting air in their tyres.

Welcome to a whole world of imported crap - Our current purchases and tight wallets have dictated it be so...

[Pickles]

MAJOR reason given by Toyota,....and I quote, ..."High Cost of manufacturing in Australia",.........which has been the common theme for ALL industries that have closed & gone overseas.
"High Cost"?.....Whose fault is that?
Pickles.

[Micks]

MAJOR reason given by Toyota,....and I quote, ..."High Cost of manufacturing in Australia",.........which has been the common theme for ALL industries that have closed & gone overseas.
"High Cost"?.....Whose fault is that?
Pickles.
Martin, everyone knows that was John Howard's fault!! Whoever he was!! :teach:

[conrodss]

I'm going to buy a Volvo. :lmao:

[MYVYSS]

Its not just the major manufacturers closing that will kill everything its all the feeder companies that supply components that will be hardest hit. All the AC and electrics...this will be massive and I feel for anyone in the car industry at the moment. The writing is on the wall and most will have to be made redundant to collect on all their years of service, Truly a dark dark day in Australia's history...

[Smitty]

Its not just the major manufacturers closing that will kill everything its all the feeder companies that supply components that will be hardest hit. All the AC and electrics...this will be massive and I feel for anyone in the car industry at the moment. The writing is on the wall and most will have to be made redundant to collect on all their years of service, Truly a dark dark day in Australia's history...

very true..... engineering, chemical/petro-chemical and plastics industries are already under pressure with Ford and Holden going

now with Toyota going and Holden shutting all engineering and development activity from the end of 2016 (dunno if thats public knowledge or not... but I have been told that by some GMHolden engineers)
there will be little manufacturing in SA and Victoria... except maybe for the defence industry and that unfortunately is subject to the whims of our federal pollies! Other large manufacturers like Bluescope
and Orica have already announced closure plans ... or implemented them :(

[Pickles]

Martin, everyone knows that was John Howard's fault!! Whoever he was!! :teach:
Hello my "adversary". No surely, even you, wouldn't believe that?
Best Regards,Martin.

[Micks]

Hello my "adversary". No surely, even you, wouldn't believe that?
Best Regards,Martin.
Yes mate hows Tony doing it for us BP "The Silent Achiever"??

[Pickles]

Mate, He's going very well, unchallenged, and as he promised, he has, "STOPPED THE BOATS".
Pickles.

[flukeyluke]

Terrible news, but not unexpected considering they were the only ones left.
Nissan and Mitsubishi found out long ago car manufacturing is not viable here so I guess it is a credit to the others they stuck it out this long.
The vehicle landscape in Oz is truly changing which is a real shame because we make good cars here.

You gotta laught though at the unions and opposition pollies blaming the libs for the closures. Most of the pain and losses were experienced under previous labor governments.

[whitels1ss]

Come on guys, FFS stop bringing politics into everything:biggun:

[jackvz]

Time for this country to regain common sense by 1. Looking after our back yard first ,stop giving aid to countries who clearly dont earn it (Indonesia) 2. Lefty pie in sky thinkers (Sarah Hanson Young ) grow up and realise the world is not a golden book story,Australians need to be looked after not illegal boat people. 3 Union grubs ,you have wrecked this country with greed and unrealistic working conditions placed on employers,an honest days work for and honest days pay,thats how we compete with other manufacturing nations ,not by whinging about hours worked or weekends or taking advantage of sick leave ,but actually working and producing to benefit the nation. 4.Increase tariffs on foreign goods and decrease tax or have no GST on Australian manufatured products,so as to boost our manufaturing sector.

[Plenty]

Shoulda taxed the shite outta the imports and used that to subsidise the local made cars and materials. Our market is just that fragmented now it makes no sense to build them here without the volume of sales.

[pwr346]

Is it too late to pull out my " THE END IS NIGH " sign?

[DanielSS-V]

Union propoganda? Because the people actually out of work don't really matter - they are just union propaganda?

[DanielSS-V]

I would suggest back in the days of "an honest days work" no executive got anything like the multiples of pay and boneses so many feel entiteld to now - irrespective of the companies actual performance.

The whole country is living in fairy land mate, when it comes to an honest days pay.

[Micks]

Time for this country to regain common sense by 1. Looking after our back yard first ,stop giving aid to countries who clearly dont earn it (Indonesia) 2. Lefty pie in sky thinkers (Sarah Hanson Young ) grow up and realise the world is not a golden book story,Australians need to be looked after not illegal boat people. 3 Union grubs ,you have wrecked this country with greed and unrealistic working conditions placed on employers,an honest days work for and honest days pay,thats how we compete with other manufacturing nations ,not by whinging about hours worked or weekends or taking advantage of sick leave ,but actually working and producing to benefit the nation. 4.Increase tariffs on foreign goods and decrease tax or have no GST on Australian manufatured products,so as to boost our manufaturing sector.

What profession are you in? Going by your comments you should have been a CEO of a major Car manufacturer!!!

[Micks]

Come on guys, FFS stop bringing politics into everything:biggun:

Ed, Martin can't help himself! Fancy mentioning "Stopping the Boats" in a Jap car industry thread ffs!!

[matthewfnorbert]

MAJOR reason given by Toyota,....and I quote, ..."High Cost of manufacturing in Australia",.........which has been the common theme for ALL industries that have closed & gone overseas.
"High Cost"?.....Whose fault is that?
Pickles.

....... +1

[Pickles]

Ed, Martin can't help himself! Fancy mentioning "Stopping the Boats" in a Jap car industry thread ffs!!
C'mon mate, "Politics"?....YOU were the one that mentioned John Howard & Tony Abbott?
Martin.

[Micks]

C'mon mate, "Politics"?....YOU were the one that mentioned John Howard & Tony Abbott?
Martin.
Reckon I had every right to bring up JWH!! Not so much his illegitimate son though! :limpy:
The 2500 job losses will be a piss in the ocean compared to all the
assoc' allied industries shutting up too!!!
Will make it difficult to obtain aftermarket parts in general down the track for our existing rides or projects!!
Aust. will certainly be the @sshole of the World!

[heavyduty1340]

Three reasons this has happened

Product price being too high

Greedy Stealers maximizing every bit of profit for themselves

Greedy unions over paying employees

The country cannot continue like this as our financial system cannot support it.

Simple!!

[Stomper]

its a pretty sad state of affairs that no cars will be produced in Oz, but unfortunately it is the way the world is going. it's much cheaper to go overseas.

i feel for all the employee's of the car manufacturers and the components manufacturers, going to be a lot of people losing their jobs.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Time for this country to regain common sense by 1. Looking after our back yard first ,stop giving aid to countries who clearly dont earn it (Indonesia) 2. Lefty pie in sky thinkers (Sarah Hanson Young ) grow up and realise the world is not a golden book story,Australians need to be looked after not illegal boat people. 3 Union grubs ,you have wrecked this country with greed and unrealistic working conditions placed on employers,an honest days work for and honest days pay,thats how we compete with other manufacturing nations ,not by whinging about hours worked or weekends or taking advantage of sick leave ,but actually working and producing to benefit the nation. 4.Increase tariffs on foreign goods and decrease tax or have no GST on Australian manufactured products,so as to boost our manufacturing sector.

im with you mate
every union worker in australia wants more money then whinge when the company they work for can't afford to keep going if i was in the manufacturing game i wouldn't touch australia with a forty foot pole any more
im very sad to admit
and yes the gov should cut out the foreign aid that does nothing to help anyone only the scammers on the receiving end

[Micks]

its a pretty sad state of affairs that no cars will be produced in Oz, but unfortunately it is the way the world is going. it's much cheaper to go overseas.

i feel for all the employee's of the car manufacturers and the components manufacturers, going to be a lot of people losing their jobs.

Yes int. what our Govt will do to manipulate the unemployment figures under their watch?

[C4B]

Keep it on topic. If this degenerates into the usual political pissing match between the same people it'll be gone.

[XUV]

I think a big mistake was that the car companies allowed a 2 brand race series.

Had they kept a multi car brand format and homologation racing, then the cars would have developed better.

[jackvz]

What profession are you in? Going by your comments you should have been a CEO of a major Car manufacturer!!!

Mick if I were that postion it would be Holden of course.:yahoo:

[Woodchukka]

I think a big mistake was that the car companies allowed a 2 brand race series.

Had they kept a multi car brand format and homologation racing, then the cars would have developed better.
I said it in another thread before however the old saying was "Win on Sunday sell on Monday". Doesn't really have any meaning anymore. It is a shame that Australia has lost yet another manufacturer worse yet the last. I feel for the workers involved no matter what the politics of wages and conditions may be.

However the decisions that have led to this point were made long ago and we are now reaping the rewards. It is difficult for our manufactures to play on a level field when only one government is trying to play more hands of market economics. I was just at the 12 hour and it was great to watch all the different classes circulating. Bring on the homologated racing I say.

[Swordie]

ALP supported the industry and we still lost Ford and Mitsubishi.

Everyone ceasing in an election year, should be fun to see union propaganda.

ALP would of tried harder to find a way to keep Holden here. It appeared Holden was trying to find away. Ford didn't ask for help to stay longer.

The Federal government needs to improve on communicating it's strategy to replace the hole left by the car industry.

[bozodos]

it's a crying shame, and the seeds were sown 3 governments ago.

Neither major party has done anything effective to look after locally made products, and the Trans Pacific Partnership is only going to make things worse. I for one hope that SPC Ardmona don't follow suit.

[CLUBRED]

ALP would of tried harder to find a way to keep Holden here. It appeared Holden was trying to find away. Ford didn't ask for help to stay longer.

I don't think there were clear lines of communication between GM and Holden, GM had been cleared of its bail out and they were spending billions on plants and plant upgrades in other countries, clearly they didn't need the money.

[XUV]

there's talks that import tariffs will be cut in the next 18 months, so it'll be an election thing and just as the locals cease manufacturing.

Logical idea as there's nothing to protect .

[Angeldust]

man, we're all fked.. i don't even work anywhere near car manufactunring but we have just been told this week :

too expensive, and better off being outsourced...

[Micks]

it's a crying shame, and the seeds were sown 3 governments ago.

Neither major party has done anything effective to look after locally made products, and the Trans Pacific Partnership is only going to make things worse. I for one hope that SPC Ardmona don't follow suit.

I can't stand some in the media that say Aust. shouldn't subsidies industry! Us Aussies only contribute a miniscule amount to prop up any industry period!! It's far better to than the alternative!

[planetdavo]

And then there were none...
I seem to remember a common quote from the past that said "greed is good".
Well, this is what happens when people only focus on what's in it FOR THEMSELVES. Eventually, it will go wrong. Maybe not for yourself, but your friends and your kids might be in trouble.
As long as this country is expensive enough for people to BRAG about earning stupid money for doing up a bolt, or doing a few spot welds, or holding up a sign on a road, or whatever, we will never, ever learn from this last year (over last few years really)...

[CLUBRED]

When we see asian manufacturing dominance, they'll just double the price of everything (regardless of quality) and we'll be forced to pay bacause we don't have a local industry.

[Micks]

The PM said they were for business! We haven't witnessed this? Especially so in the car industry be it Toyota, Holden or Ford!

[Angeldust]

man, we're all fked.. i don't even work anywhere near car manufactunring but we have just been told this week :

too expensive, and better off being outsourced...


Oh yeah, i don't work for manufacturing at all either.

BUT, i have been trying to raise awareness of this issue, i work in 'Science', which 70% of the work is tied to support of primary industry and manufacturing.

[matthewfnorbert]

The PM said they were for business! We haven't witnessed this? Especially so in the car industry be it Toyota, Holden or Ford!

last time i heard ford, GM and toyota are far from broke. ford and GM paying back massive loans since the GFC. We were spending far too much money subsidising these companies, good money after bad

if these companies were not union strongholds the lefty bleeding heart Labor commies would not even bat an eyelid at them. just as they did to tens of thousands of jobs lost whilst they were in power that they did not assist.

"for business" does not mean giving tax payers money away to wealthy companies with working conditions the majority can only dream of. if you got leaky pipes in business you shut it off.. thats whats happening! its called business!

[RARASV8]

i started my apprenticeship in 1982 with holden, for the next 23 years every job i had was some how associated with building CARS. i left my last associated job in 2005 when i worked for a company that serviced the tyre molds for south pacific tyres (goodyear in somerton Vic) when they went overseas with firstly the passenger tyres and then the truck tyres. slowly all my mates that got jobs in the 80's either worked for the goverment (board of works- pmg-sec-gas and fuel) or car manufacturing in some way. i'm lost for words as to what my son will do for a job in 6 years or so. sad to think most of the people i have worked with over the last 30 years will not be in the trade or job they started with,

Garry

ps i now drive a truck and most of the guys ive been in contact with from back in the 80's are doing the same or teaching in schools.

[Pickles]

And then there were none...
I seem to remember a common quote from the past that said "greed is good".
Well, this is what happens when people only focus on what's in it FOR THEMSELVES. Eventually, it will go wrong. Maybe not for yourself, but your friends and your kids might be in trouble.
As long as this country is expensive enough for people to BRAG about earning stupid money for doing up a bolt, or doing a few spot welds, or holding up a sign on a road, or whatever, we will never, ever learn from this last year (over last few years really)...
Davo, 100% correct.
Still amazing though mate, some people still do not realize this.
Regards, Pickles.

[HSVREDSLED]

Answers you seek? Its all here folks...

http://onfourwheels.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/protectionism-and-australian-automotive.html

[matthewfnorbert]

And then there were none...
I seem to remember a common quote from the past that said "greed is good".
Well, this is what happens when people only focus on what's in it FOR THEMSELVES. Eventually, it will go wrong. Maybe not for yourself, but your friends and your kids might be in trouble.
As long as this country is expensive enough for people to BRAG about earning stupid money for doing up a bolt, or doing a few spot welds, or holding up a sign on a road, or whatever, we will never, ever learn from this last year (over last few years really)...

nicely put!

[Micks]

last time i heard ford, GM and toyota are far from broke. ford and GM paying back massive loans since the GFC. We were spending far too much money subsidising these companies, good money after bad

if these companies were not union strongholds the lefty bleeding heart Labor commies would not even bat an eyelid at them. just as they did to tens of thousands of jobs lost whilst they were in power that they did not assist.

"for business" does not mean giving tax payers money away to wealthy companies with working conditions the majority can only dream of. if you got leaky pipes in business you shut it off.. thats whats happening! its called business!

Know well they ain't broke, would like to know how the workers are overpaid? I have worked in both public & private jobs for a thirty year period & never witnessed one excessively/overpaid metal worker! I found the non unionist people were paid exactly the same!
As Davo said it doesn't affect me so who gives a f**k exactly why these job losses will be eminent maybe not now but soon!!
We won't be spending far too much money subsidizing these companies, good money after bad though there will be a huge hit to Social Security system!!

[VYBerlinaV8]

Shoulda taxed the shite outta the imports and used that to subsidise the local made cars and materials. Our market is just that fragmented now it makes no sense to build them here without the volume of sales.

That's how things used to be until Hawke/Keating changed the rules.

Why did they change the rules? Because our cars were uncompetitive on a world stage, and uncompetitive industries don't lead to having a productive workforce. Look how good our cars are now compared to other counties' cars.

When every local manufacturer shuts up shop you have to look at why. In this country, people simply get paid too much for us to compete in this area. Fortunately none of these companies are our biggest manufacturer. Also, the commercial media loves these stories. Do peoplel realise that over the past few years the IT industry in Australia has lost WAY more jobs that all our local car manufacturers combined? The Australian economy is changing, as it always has, and as individuals it is far better to look to the future and seek out and act on opportunity than mourn the ways things used to be.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Know well they ain't broke, would like to know how the workers are overpaid?

What do equivalent workers earn in the US? What about in Europe? What about in Asia?

[Micks]

Some earn more! though very relative to the cost of living city to city. Other problem in our industry being overlooked is trained/qualified
people not working in there trade opting to work elsewhere, causing a shortage of quality workers.

[matthewfnorbert]

I found the non unionist people were paid exactly the same! thats great news! we can abolish the unions overnight and all the union subscribers will now have more money in their pockets thanks to no contributions..

[Micks]

thats great news! we can abolish the unions overnight and all the union subscribers will now have more money in their pockets thanks to no contributions..
Don't like unions! what about professional associations too?

[HSVREDSLED]

thats great news! we can abolish the unions overnight and all the union subscribers will now have more money in their pockets thanks to no contributions..

Who would pay for hookers and porn?

[VYBerlinaV8]

Some earn more!

Not many, mate, not many at all.

[Micks]

thats great news! we can abolish the unions overnight and all the union subscribers will now have more money in their pockets thanks to no contributions..
Like believing in faires too as if your fully imported Toyota, Ford or GM equivalent is ridiculously less than what were paying now!!:p

[Micks]

Who would pay for hookers and porn?

You ya taxpayer you!! :whip:

[Micks]

Don't like unions! what about professional associations too?

.......:hmmm:

[matthewfnorbert]

i just call it as i see it

[VYBerlinaV8]

Like believing in faires too as if your fully imported Toyota, Ford or GM equivalent is ridiculously less than what were paying now!!:p

Sellers of nearly anything will charge what the market will bear. If someone in Australia is silly enought to pay $260k for a Porsche that can be bought for $90k in the US, or $90k for a large ute that can be bought for $30k in the US, why wouldn't they sell it for that?

[Woodchukka]

What do equivalent workers earn in the US? What about in Europe? What about in Asia?
Will stand to be corrected however have been told some US companies have moved manufacturing back to US as GFC hurt wage rates over there and are now more competitive on world stage.

[mjrandom]

The US has cheap reliable energy and transport costs. Labour is cheaper than here but not as cheap as Asian or Africa. Business is a combination of all sorts of costs, labour, power, infrastructure, logistics and materials etc etc so it all depends how the balance is made up as to whether business is viable or not. To solely blame high wages for the car industry in Australia failing is as dumb as blaming the current government. The demise has happened over a long time and several governments and no single issue is at fault. We have too much choice of what to buy, the top seller now sells significantly fewer cars than the same position 10 or 15 years ago. Volume is where costs can be amortised and if we are only making for a reduced home market with a token export market then we have no chance to compete.

It saddens me that the industry and the supporting manufacturers will be gone but as I understand it Ford and GM had made their decision pretty much regardless of what was offfered from the government coffers.

I posted before some options that could have been used to help support the car industry here, no LCT on local manufacture, no FBT on local manufacture, reintroduce tariffs etc but these wont make the industry sustainable. The other issue that is hard to fix is the perception problem. On another forum there is a thread about luxury cars. What luxury car can I get for $40k etc. These people are not talking about luxury cars they are talking about European cars and think European equals luxury. Go for a pedal in a poverty pack BMW or Mercedes and then the same spend in a Calais. I know which offers more features and higher levels of luxury. I also know which I would buy. I have had mates laugh openly at me spending $100k on a Commode. So I ask them what are the alternatives? They can't answer that and then I take them for a drive and they shut up altogether.

[planetdavo]

That's how things used to be until Hawke/Keating changed the rules.

Why did they change the rules? Because our cars were uncompetitive on a world stage, and uncompetitive industries don't lead to having a productive workforce. Look how good our cars are now compared to other counties' cars.

When every local manufacturer shuts up shop you have to look at why. In this country, people simply get paid too much for us to compete in this area. Fortunately none of these companies are our biggest manufacturer. Also, the commercial media loves these stories. Do peoplel realise that over the past few years the IT industry in Australia has lost WAY more jobs that all our local car manufacturers combined? The Australian economy is changing, as it always has, and as individuals it is far better to look to the future and seek out and act on opportunity than mourn the ways things used to be.

The unfortunate reality is that, whilst the Button Plan gave us better local cars, it also started banging nails in the manufacturing industry coffin.
Plans like that come from an idealistic world of everyone being "equals", but as we all (now) know, the world ain't even close to being full of "equal" countries.
I suspect that the next recession in this country is going to be mighty painful if mining and tourism get hit hard...

[XUV]

last time i heard ford, GM and toyota are far from broke. ford and GM paying back massive loans since the GFC. We were spending far too much money subsidising these companies, good money after bad
s!

yes, why is it we give this money to whom ever? Why isn't it a loan ?
The American Gov and Warren lent the money at 5% , and with the CPI at sweet fuk all to 2% , that's a 3% return, not to shabby in this climate.

We shouldn've got rid of our nuclear program , we need more scientist and engineers of every sort and we need courses for the specialized
then we'd be smarter and working smarter.

The money that was going to the car makers must be spent to retool and retrain the ex workers and the parts makers .

on the car front , this is what we're up against and when the local demand is satisfied , get ready for a car dump.

It is the world’s largest manufacturing nation and in 2012 China built 19.27 million vehicles up from just 2.1 million in the year 2000.
That year the US built 10.5 million vehicles, Japan 9.9 million, Germany 5.6 million Korea 4.6 million.
http://www.news.com.au/national/australias-biggest-threat-is-china-australian-strategic-policy-institute-report-finds/story-fncynjr2-1226824729488

[Micks]

Sellers of nearly anything will charge what the market will bear. If someone in Australia is silly enought to pay $260k for a Porsche that can be bought for $90k in the US, or $90k for a large ute that can be bought for $30k in the US, why wouldn't they sell it for that?
That's just my point exactly!!

[planetdavo]

Sellers of nearly anything will charge what the market will bear. If someone in Australia is silly enought to pay $260k for a Porsche that can be bought for $90k in the US, or $90k for a large ute that can be bought for $30k in the US, why wouldn't they sell it for that?

Oh so true...for people that understand the way the world works.
Same reason a house on a block of dirt costs so much in this country now. People will pay it.
Earn decent bucks on average in a country, and the cost of everything in that country matches it. People believing they can have the expenses of a cheaper country with the pay packet of an expensive country really is head in the clouds sort of stuff.

[Plenty]

Don't like unions! what about professional associations too?

Doesn't like unions, means more money to line his pockets with. Typically the so called "professional" world can't stand the fact that trades people earn more than them. It hurts even more because they are still paying of their HECs fees 30 years on. People are paid what it needs to keep them working, if demand in other sectors draws labour away for money it's only natural that other sectors increase the wages to retain employees.

[planetdavo]

Doesn't like unions, means more money to line his pockets with. Typically the so called "professional" world can't stand the fact that trades people earn more than them. It hurts even more because they are still paying of their HECs fees 30 years on. People are paid what it needs to keep them working, if demand in other sectors draws labour away for money it's only natural that other sectors increase the wages to retain employees.

When the mining boom ends, there's going to be some massive pain coming the "tradies" way...

[Plenty]

That's how things used to be until Hawke/Keating changed the rules.

Why did they change the rules? Because our cars were uncompetitive on a world stage, and uncompetitive industries don't lead to having a productive workforce. Look how good our cars are now compared to other counties' cars.

When every local manufacturer shuts up shop you have to look at why. In this country, people simply get paid too much for us to compete in this area. Fortunately none of these companies are our biggest manufacturer. Also, the commercial media loves these stories. Do peoplel realise that over the past few years the IT industry in Australia has lost WAY more jobs that all our local car manufacturers combined? The Australian economy is changing, as it always has, and as individuals it is far better to look to the future and seek out and act on opportunity than mourn the ways things used to be.

My dad worked in the electronics industry in the mid 80's and into the mid 90's in Australia and it was a very busy industry. Panasonic, NEC and companies like Phillips etc all made quality products here but again the Asian manufacturing industry took over and did it cheaper. He now works in the construction industry (office based). Just goes to show if you look right back then the writing was on the wall, only we couldn't see it.

[Plenty]

When the mining boom ends, there's going to be some massive pain coming the "tradies" way...

No, the tradies will be fine, it's the boys and girls from other sectors that will be out of work. They are so in need of labour that someone straight from Woolworths checkout can get a job, it's these people that will find it hard to re-adjust.

[Micks]

When the mining boom ends, there's going to be some massive pain coming the "tradies" way...
There not all Tradies though Dave!!

[XUV]

When the mining boom ends, there's going to be some massive pain coming the "tradies" way...

they can come work the farm, with 20 mil chinese moving to 'their' middle class each year ( the chinese figures are frightening/staggering ), they gunna need to eat their new found wealth.

they, the chinese will need us, on way or another , which is good considering this http://www.news.com.au/technology/a-new-arms-race-is-exploding-into-asia-with-an-expensive-and-extensive-shopping-list-of-new-weapons-whos-buying-what-and-where-does-australia-stand/story-e6frfrnr-1226825644654
media alarmisn , hmm , but as Joh Bjelke-Petersen said ' one must learn to walk with a foot in each paddock astride a barb wire fence. yep , tippy toe every 10 inches.
http://media.news.com.au/nnd//432d88981831a713fab04a799683fa7f/desktop/assets/01.jpg

sorry if it's off-topic , but it's all relevant and hopefully jolts this country into gear , but e stumble thru it like we always do ;)

[2TEAZE]

Well It's interesting that Volvo Group designs & manufactures heavy duty trucks in Australia for Australian conditions...all the while with no tarrif protection, no financial assistance from the government, employs thousands of people, gives back to the community, helps develop the minds of tomorrow with excellent engineering scholarship schemes for the universities &trades for apprentices, and an environmental care policy second to none.

Volvo Bash away....

[Plenty]

sorry if it's off-topic , but it's all relevant and hopefully jolts this country into gear , but e stumble thru it like we always do ;)

Mate we as a nation can never match a "super power" like China, we just don't have the scope to enable it. What we do have though is some much stronger allies, much better trained and with superior technology. One thing our ADF could do is upgrade the piece of crap F88S Austeyr, SOCOMD are using the "new" SCAR system in various config but we need to give the feet on the ground the best we can.

Sorry for off-topic.

[XUV]

Well It's interesting that Volvo Group designs & manufactures heavy duty trucks in Australia for Australian conditions...all the while with no tarrif protection, no financial assistance from the government, employs thousands of people, gives back to the community, helps develop the minds of tomorrow with excellent engineering scholarship schemes for the universities &trades for apprentices, and an environmental care policy second to none.

Volvo Bash away....
Good to see.
Are Volvo group chinese owned ? like the car company, or is it seperate?

[planetdavo]

No, the tradies will be fine, it's the boys and girls from other sectors that will be out of work. They are so in need of labour that someone straight from Woolworths checkout can get a job, it's these people that will find it hard to re-adjust.

Think all those local tradies earning a mint for unplugging your sh!tter or fixing the local shop's air conditioning will be on the big bucks still when a flood of ex-mining tradies suddenly enter their turf...?
Standard life sort of stuff really. Supply and demand. The local tradies get stupid money because major projects sucked many of them out of the areas where most residential and business needs are. So, the ones that remain can cherry pick the jobs they want and ream everyone doing so- because they can!
It's like any glut. Gluts ram prices down because there's too much supply and not enough demand.
It will happen.

[planetdavo]

Good to see.
Are Volvo group chinese owned ? like the car company, or is it seperate?

Owned by Geely.

[XUV]

Owned by Geely.
see nothing to fear from the chinese and actually if you look at their foreign practice, it's quite good, they learn we learn (if we're wise euff to take without xenophobia )

on another note , SPC looks saved and coca cola had more to lose from it's closure and I would've played hard ball, but anyway ........
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgUiprNCcAEAOUf.jpg:large

hey maybe change the name of this thread to Australian Manufacturing .

[VYBerlinaV8]

Think all those local tradies earning a mint for unplugging your sh!tter or fixing the local shop's air conditioning will be on the big bucks still when a flood of ex-mining tradies suddenly enter their turf...?
Standard life sort of stuff really. Supply and demand. The local tradies get stupid money because major projects sucked many of them out of the areas where most residential and business needs are. So, the ones that remain can cherry pick the jobs they want and ream everyone doing so- because they can!
It's like any glut. Gluts ram prices down because there's too much supply and not enough demand.
It will happen.

Agreed.

But it will be fine. Those tradies earning crazy money put lots of it away, they certainly didn't piss it all away on boats, 4WDs, trips to Bali, etc...

[2TEAZE]

Owned by Geely.


Only the Volvo Car division is owned by Geely, the rest of the entire AB Volvo Group is very much Swedish.

Kenworth & Iveco can get on with the job of manufacturing in Aus without putting their hand out either.

[Woodchukka]

When the mining boom ends, there's going to be some massive pain coming the "tradies" way...
Mining boom stops when global economy slows and booms when global economy booms. That has been a cycle for many years. I have no idea why people see it as such a surprise when the "mining boom ends"? What goes up will inevitability come down. Also it is not just the mining sector driving up trades wages. Less apprentices are being trained now well in the Hunter anyhow so natural attrition will help prop up wages as well.

[Pickles]

I go back to my Post 5 in this thread.
So, who do I blame for not ALL of the problem, but a LARGE part?
I blame the Unions, for pushing up wages, conditions, penalties, RDOs, and all the other stuff we've talked about. I ain't blaming any particular Party, labor or Lib, in particular, but I will say this, Labor have ALWAYS been far more amenable to Union "demands" than the Coalition.
I am NOT against Unions, I was a member of the ABOA, now the Finance sector Union, for the whole 40 yrs of my working life, I marched, went to Rallys, etc etc, but the Bank Union never went for outrageous/over the top claims. And don't bring the CEO's $11M package into this, that's got nothing to do with the Union. (Suffice to say it IS outrageous, no-one's worth that sort of money).
So, I have nothing against Unions, only the absolutely outrageous claims that they have made, & won, which have contributed to a very large extent to the high cost of manufacturing in Australia.....which is now seeing the demise of manufacturing here,....and you might note,.....there hasn't been much "noise" from the Unions recently.
Even Paul Howes, in his controversial Press Club address recently, conceded that Unions needed to be more realistic in their negotiations with Industry & Govt, whichever Govt is in power.
How do we get manufacturing going again?....I have no idea. I've been called the "Voice Of Doom" on this forum before, I've said that living standards in Aus are unsustainable, & I've been poo-pood for that too. Well the workers that are now starting to lose their jobs might have some common ground with me.
Pickles.

[Micks]

Will be interesting too how quickly Aust. will overcome this in restoring confidence in the sector & stop unemployment escalating.
Whilst on unemployment that's on a Ten year high!!

[HSVREDSLED]

Will be interesting too how quickly Aust. will overcome this in restoring confidence in the sector & stop unemployment escalating.
Whilst on unemployment that's on a Ten year high!!

Haha nice try....have you seen the unemployment trend pre Sep 2013? It was heading vertical way before Sep 2013. Hopefully the trend is now slowing.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Unemployment is currently about 6%. 20 years ago, 5% unemployment was considered 'full employment'.

That said, the method for measuring has changed, and there's probably some underemployment as well. Things are booming for most people, but we're far from screwed. 1990-93 was way worse than now.

[Micks]

Haha nice try....have you seen the unemployment trend pre Sep 2013? It was heading vertical way before Sep 2013. Hopefully the trend is now slowing.

Sorry Sled can only way is up baby!!!;)

[Micks]

Unemployment is currently about 6%. 20 years ago, 5% unemployment was considered 'full employment'.

That said, the method for measuring has changed, and there's probably some underemployment as well. Things are booming for most people, but we're far from screwed. 1990-93 was way worse than now.

Hasn't been so since 2003, our Ol mate PC said it was impossible to get the UER below 5.5%!!!!

[HSVREDSLED]

Rising unemployment rates is not a bad thing..heres why.

A typical dole bludger who sleeps in until midday and lives off our taxes isn't actually captured in our unemployment rates. To be captured in unemployment rates, you must actually seek work during that week. So, if a government comes in and tries to break the welfare cycle and gets people off the arse trying to get work, unemployment rates will actually rise.


The ABS defines someone who is unemployed as: ◾all persons 15 years of age and over who were not employed during the reference week, and: •had actively looked for full-time or part-time work at any time in the four weeks up to the end of the reference week and were available for work in the reference week; or
•were waiting to start a new job within four weeks from the end of the reference week and could have started in the reference week if the job had been available then.

[Micks]

Rising unemployment rates is not a bad thing..heres why.

A typical dole bludger who sleeps in until midday and lives off our taxes isn't actually captured in our unemployment rates. To be captured in unemployment rates, you must actually seek work during that week. So, if a government comes in and tries to break the welfare cycle and gets people off the arse trying to get work, unemployment rates will actually rise.


The ABS defines someone who is unemployed as: ◾all persons 15 years of age and over who were not employed during the reference week, and: •had actively looked for full-time or part-time work at any time in the four weeks up to the end of the reference week and were available for work in the reference week; or
•were waiting to start a new job within four weeks from the end of the reference week and could have started in the reference week if the job had been available then.
Sled will Apologize for taking this off topic!
So your saying the conservatives can't add up then!

[HSVREDSLED]

Sled will Apologize for taking this off topic!
So your saying the conservatives can't add up then!

BACK ON TOPIC!

Micks the ABS criteria was written by your mob.

BACK ON TOPIC. TOYOTA CLOSING!

[seldo]

I go back to my Post 5 in this thread.
So, who do I blame for not ALL of the problem, but a LARGE part?
I blame the Unions, for pushing up wages, conditions, penalties, RDOs, and all the other stuff we've talked about. I ain't blaming any particular Party, labor or Lib, in particular, but I will say this, Labor have ALWAYS been far more amenable to Union "demands" than the Coalition.
I am NOT against Unions, I was a member of the ABOA, now the Finance sector Union, for the whole 40 yrs of my working life, I marched, went to Rallys, etc etc, but the Bank Union never went for outrageous/over the top claims. And don't bring the CEO's $11M package into this, that's got nothing to do with the Union. (Suffice to say it IS outrageous, no-one's worth that sort of money).
So, I have nothing against Unions, only the absolutely outrageous claims that they have made, & won, which have contributed to a very large extent to the high cost of manufacturing in Australia.....which is now seeing the demise of manufacturing here,....and you might note,.....there hasn't been much "noise" from the Unions recently.
Even Paul Howes, in his controversial Press Club address recently, conceded that Unions needed to be more realistic in their negotiations with Industry & Govt, whichever Govt is in power.
How do we get manufacturing going again?....I have no idea. I've been called the "Voice Of Doom" on this forum before, I've said that living standards in Aus are unsustainable, & I've been poo-pood for that too. Well the workers that are now starting to lose their jobs might have some common ground with me.
Pickles.Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...

[Pickles]

Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...
Thanks Seldo,....at least someone is in touch with reality.
Cheers, Pickles.

[HSVREDSLED]

Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...

I agree, but unions are not totally to blame. Add the decisions to reduce tariffs on imported cars...history shows all..

[Micks]

Thanks Seldo,....at least someone is in touch with reality.
Cheers, Pickles.

Tony will sort the unions he's in the process of spending $100,000,000 for jobs for his mates on a wide reaching ICAC into them!!

[seldo]

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52124706ecad041e39000028-960/minimum-wages-around-the-world.png

[HSVREDSLED]

Holden should move operations to Sierra Leone. Im sure any of the locals would be up to and exceed the quality of service I recently have had from Holden.

[Micks]

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52124706ecad041e39000028-960/minimum-wages-around-the-world.png
Your e.g. is useless Seldo without a correlation to the cost of living in each of those cities!!

[Micks]

Holden should move operations to Sierra Leone. Im sure any of the locals would be up to and exceed the quality of service I recently have had from Holden.
You should head it up mate!:)

[C4B]

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

[HSVREDSLED]

Both companies still couldn't get the product right despite decades of development. Imagine the dramas with a totally new fleet?

[XUV]

Both companies still couldn't get the product right despite decades of development. Imagine the dramas with a totally new fleet?

They never asked , they assumed , they came close but didn't give the punters what they needed , they gave us what they thought we needed.

The Holden Adventra , Crewman Cross 6/8 could've been a winner had they just put in a diesel that gave V8 pulling power, half decent economy and thrown on a 29/30 inch tyre.

[whitels1ss]

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/52124706ecad041e39000028-960/minimum-wages-around-the-world.png

Sorry Pete but if people in Australia were paid much lower wages nobody would be able to afford to buy a new car
so they would go broke anyway

[Micks]

That begs the answer what should non skilled veh. assemblers be paid if they the manuf. is to make a decent profit?

[Hi Octane]

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)



Nail, head, hit, agree 100%, these companies ask what we want & do f*** all, compare the small car sector, hyundai, toyota, mazda, they are a much better car than what ford holden has to offer. Fiesta , focus, mondeo, havent got a tad on the jap korean equalivent.

[seldo]

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)Absolutely true.
This is also demonstrated by the fact that our best selling car is/was Mazda 3, and the biggest seller across the board was the HiLuxe. You'll note that one is manufactured in Japan and the other in Thailand...
Problem is - because to compete with these products, we must do so on a much higher labour rate, and it has been shown over the years that the manufacturers find it difficult to make a quid on these cheaper volume models - the further up the model ladder you go, the higher the profit margin.
Holden probably make more money on selling 35,000 Commodores than they would selling 70,000 Cruses...
Also, I read somewhere the other day that Toyota said that it costs them $3,500 more to manufacture a Camry here than it costs them elsewhere....

[VYBerlinaV8]

Holden should move operations to Sierra Leone. Im sure any of the locals would be up to and exceed the quality of service I recently have had from Holden.

They should outsource our local dealer to there. Might lift their standars a bit.

[macca_779]

Hilux ain't a cheap car though. Australia could of built a similar product for the same money but failed to

[Micks]

Ok what's the answer? Who's gunna be brave enough to peg goods/wages then??

[HSVREDSLED]

Ok what's the answer? Who's gunna be brave enough to peg goods/wages then??

Wasn't that answered last September?

[Micks]

Wasn't that answered last September?

That's not entirely what conservatives stand for mate!!

[whitels1ss]

:sleep::popcorn:

[Plenty]

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

Last time i looked they were selling more Commodores than Hilux utes! That was not in the real rough times of end of the VE's though.

[C4B]

Last time i looked they were selling more Commodores than Hilux utes! That was not in the real rough times of end of the VE's though.

Well they're outselling them now..... And the scary part of that is that not every family would be a potential buyer of a ute.

And in terms of overall sales, Commodore wouldn't even come in the top 3 Small car sales (even excluding the Hilux etc.)

It's really not hard to see the reason why Commodore is getting the bullet.....

[planetdavo]

Well they're outselling them now..... And the scary part of that is that not every family would be a potential buyer of a ute.

And in terms of overall sales, Commodore wouldn't even come in the top 3 Small car sales (even excluding the Hilux etc.)

It's really not hard to see the reason why Commodore is getting the bullet.....

Yeah...but not for the reasons you have regularly said.
The top selling car last year (Corolla) sold less than two thirds the volumes that the top selling car 10 years ago sold (Commodore)- in a market that is selling 10% more metal. Combine our (now) massively fragmented market with the dollar led destruction of the Holden and Toyota export volumes and the sad decline in Aussie "pride" (where slagging off Australian made is now almost a national sport and buying an import is good), and the seeds were sown. Ever increasing fuel costs are a smaller factor.
Pretty easy to do the math- rather than ignoring the facts and just saying "they don't make what people want" or whatever some sections of the community keep saying. The volumes in this new world order (where Australia really is no different to anywhere else anymore) have simply dried up. It's not like Australia was ever going to be allowed to develop an SUV or a small car some people seem to think they had to develop to survive- when their overseas bosses already have catalogues full of them ready to drive onto a RO-RO- so the inevitable occurred...

[planetdavo]

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

If Commodore was made in a third world country where employees pretty much get paid in coconuts and several hundred thousand cheaply made cars were sent around the world to countries that have faintly ridiculous "free trade agreements" in a very much unequal world, does anyone really believe Commodore's time would be up...?
"Large cars" time is NOT up. After all, last time I looked, there were still PLENTY on sale around the world...

[C4B]

Yeah...but not for the reasons you have regularly said.
The top selling car last year (Corolla) sold less than two thirds the volumes that the top selling car 10 years ago sold (Commodore)- in a market that is selling 10% more metal. Combine our (now) massively fragmented market with the dollar led destruction of the Holden and Toyota export volumes and the sad decline in Aussie "pride" (where slagging off Australian made is now almost a national sport and buying an import is good), and the seeds were sown. Ever increasing fuel costs are a smaller factor.
Pretty easy to do the math- rather than ignoring the facts and just saying "they don't make what people want" or whatever some sections of the community keep saying. The volumes in this new world order (where Australia really is no different to anywhere else anymore) have simply dried up. It's not like Australia was ever going to be allowed to develop an SUV or a small car some people seem to think they had to develop to survive- when their overseas bosses already have catalogues full of them ready to drive onto a RO-RO- so the inevitable occurred...

The broken record about slagging off our locally made cars..... Turn the record over, or better still, go and drive a Mazda or Toyota around the same pricepoint as a Commodore.

One of the members here just traded his VE Clubsport in on a new Hilux SR5 last week and his comment was he didn't realise the difference in the build quality between the two cars until he got the new Toyota.

[sjhugh]

Yeah...but not for the reasons you have regularly said.
The top selling car last year (Corolla) sold less than two thirds the volumes that the top selling car 10 years ago sold (Commodore)- in a market that is selling 10% more metal. Combine our (now) massively fragmented market with the dollar led destruction of the Holden and Toyota export volumes and the sad decline in Aussie "pride" (where slagging off Australian made is now almost a national sport and buying an import is good), and the seeds were sown. Ever increasing fuel costs are a smaller factor.
Pretty easy to do the math- rather than ignoring the facts and just saying "they don't make what people want" or whatever some sections of the community keep saying. The volumes in this new world order (where Australia really is no different to anywhere else anymore) have simply dried up. It's not like Australia was ever going to be allowed to develop an SUV or a small car some people seem to think they had to develop to survive- when their overseas bosses already have catalogues full of them ready to drive onto a RO-RO- so the inevitable occurred...


If Commodore was made in a third world country where employees pretty much get paid in coconuts and several hundred thousand cheaply made cars were sent around the world to countries that have faintly ridiculous "free trade agreements" in a very much unequal world, does anyone really believe Commodore's time would be up...?
"Large cars" time is NOT up. After all, last time I looked, there were still PLENTY on sale around the world...


I said years ago if Holden didn’t keep the Commodore up to spec with what was being offered by the imports they were asking for it.

How did I know?

Because I saw my friends, my work colleagues, my family and my neighbours who were once core local supporters looking away and purchasing a host of various makes and models because they offered more kit for their hard earned money.

The more they bought, the wider the variety became.

Apart from the ever faithful V8 brigade the catch up VF came to market way to late, the horse bolted years ago.

Local manufacturing as a serious profit spinner has been on the noise for years as far as the HO’s of GM, Ford & Toyota were concerned.

It only took one of the remaining three to push the stop button to open the door for the others to do the same.

And the powers that be in Japan and the USA would smiling now the charade is over.


.

[Pickles]

Well, our car manufacturing is finished now, we all know that.
But, a couple of things happened during the last few years, that certainly have not helped. I've heard that a good export program was one of the attributes necessary for survival, so with that in mind, and firstly with Ford in mind, Why wasn't the Territory ever exported? I've never owned one, but several of my friends have, and they've not had a bad word to say about them. There really isn't anything like them in the world, & I can't see why Territory wouldn't have been a good seller anywhere? Likewise with Holden, well they did sell a few GTOs, but from what I've read, it was only a half hearted sales push in the U.S., & the same with the VF (SS in the States)....it's a great car, all the US motor writers love it, but ya don't hear or see much PR from GM,....again not much of an effort?
I've no idea about car "politics", but I've read that in some cases, the manufacturers, are not really interested in some models being sold in some export markets, and I think this is the case in these instances. They're not, never were , particularly interested in these models selling say in the US, as it would eat into their own sales etc etc, & they make these decisions, even if they are aware that it is going to very adversely affect the Australian company. And when they made these decisions not to promote say SS & Territory, I reckon that they already knew that "the writing was on the wall" for their Aussie companies.
Just my thoughts, Pickles.

[Swordie]

Well, our car manufacturing is finished now, we all know that.
But, a couple of things happened during the last few years, that certainly have not helped. I've heard that a good export program was one of the attributes necessary for survival, so with that in mind, and firstly with Ford in mind, Why wasn't the Territory ever exported? I've never owned one, but several of my friends have, and they've not had a bad word to say about them. There really isn't anything like them in the world, & I can't see why Territory wouldn't have been a good seller anywhere? Likewise with Holden, well they did sell a few GTOs, but from what I've read, it was only a half hearted sales push in the U.S., & the same with the VF (SS in the States)....it's a great car, all the US motor writers love it, but ya don't hear or see much PR from GM,....again not much of an effort?
I've no idea about car "politics", but I've read that in some cases, the manufacturers, are not really interested in some models being sold in some export markets, and I think this is the case in these instances. They're not, never were , particularly interested in these models selling say in the US, as it would eat into their own sales etc etc, & they make these decisions, even if they are aware that it is going to very adversely affect the Australian company. And when they made these decisions not to promote say SS & Territory, I reckon that they already knew that "the writing was on the wall" for their Aussie companies.
Just my thoughts, Pickles.

I thought Ford had really good product to export. Eg Territory. It would of probably conflicted with local model in U.S.

[C4B]

I thought Ford had really good product to export. Eg Territory. It would of probably conflicted with local model in U.S.

I almost get the feeling that the Territory (from a local perspective at least) was a bit ahead of its time, and by the time the SUV bonanza started the Territory was seen to be getting a bit long in the tooth.

[Peter B - CV8]

I almost get the feeling that the Territory (from a local perspective at least) was a bit ahead of its time, and by the time the SUV bonanza started the Territory was seen to be getting a bit long in the tooth.
They exported 50 or so to Thailand from memory. Whilst well received, they took ages to sell due to the high price mark up required to cover tariffs etc imposed by Thailand.

[Woodchukka]

They exported 50 or so to Thailand from memory. Whilst well received, they took ages to sell due to the high price mark up required to cover tariffs etc imposed by Thailand.
And people wonder why our industry is uncompetitive and and not able to find export markets. I am not advocating for tariffs however it comes back to the same old argument of how does our industry compete with higher manufacturing costs and then try and compete in markets being protected by their government. Everyone wants free trade but only want the trade to go one way.

[GTSLOVER]

I almost get the feeling that the Territory (from a local perspective at least) was a bit ahead of its time, and by the time the SUV bonanza started the Territory was seen to be getting a bit long in the tooth.

I think the biggest problem with territory was lack of diesel option from the get go. They were just too thirsty with the petrol engine

[Pickles]

Ok what's the answer? Who's gunna be brave enough to peg goods/wages then??
G'Day Mate.
I reckon this could already be happening.
I've noticed a VERY distinct fall off in Union "Demands" of late, & I heard on the News yesterday, that the rate of wage increase is now slightly lower than inflation, which itself is low?
Cheers, Pickles.

[VYBerlinaV8]

I think the biggest problem with territory was lack of diesel option from the get go. They were just too thirsty with the petrol engine

The Territory would have been ideal in the US market in the mid 2000s. Most of their large SUVs are still petrol, and drink way more than a Territory - I had a Chev Suburban as a hire car in Miami and it used 25l/100km, and didn't drive anywhere nearly as well as a Territory.

Beats the **** out of me why Ford didn;t export it. It was a much better SUV than the shite Ford US was serving up.

[C4B]

Beats the **** out of me why Ford didn;t export it. It was a much better SUV than the shite Ford US was serving up.

You may have just answered your own question....

Why would Ford US import something that is going to eat into sales of its own inferior vehicles.

[VYBerlinaV8]

You may have just answered your own question....

Why would Ford US import something that is going to eat into sales of its own inferior vehicles.

Two reasons:
1) Improve market share, leading to higher profits; and
2) Focus design, engineering and production on a smaller number of better vehicles rather than building a range of average/mediocre vehicles.

[C4B]

Two reasons:
1) Improve market share, leading to higher profits; and
2) Focus design, engineering and production on a smaller number of better vehicles rather than building a range of average/mediocre vehicles.

You've seen how much fuss here there is about imports vs local cars..... No different in the old US of A. American workers losing their jobs because of imported SUV's..... Not likely!

[Micks]

G'Day Mate.
I reckon this could already be happening.
I've noticed a VERY distinct fall off in Union "Demands" of late, & I heard on the News yesterday, that the rate of wage increase is now slightly lower than inflation, which itself is low?
Cheers, Pickles.
Well mate your right on two fronts as ya know I am a lefty, though I do get a relative low income & in so find myself to be a conservative!!

[Ausmartin1]

Well hate to admit but JD has a point finally.
http://heraldsun.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/car_industry_job_losses_extend_beyond_factory_floo r_82190_20140224?masthead=heraldsun

Get the feeling it's going to be much easier in future to find a Toyota or Hyundai dealership than a Ford or Holden Dealership sadly.

Looks like both Ford and Holden have way too many dealerships as the Average number of cars sold per dealership in 2013 440, 480 vs Toyota ... 1000

[Woodchukka]

Well hate to admit but JD has a point finally.
http://heraldsun.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/car_industry_job_losses_extend_beyond_factory_floo r_82190_20140224?masthead=heraldsun

Get the feeling it's going to be much easier in future to find a Toyota or Hyundai dealership than a Ford or Holden Dealership sadly.

Looks like both Ford and Holden have way too many dealerships as the Average number of cars sold per dealership in 2013 440, 480 vs Toyota ... 1000
Probably as once upon a time people were proud to buy a Ford or Holden so needed more dealers and have since supplemented their lineup with other makes.