Biggest radiator possible for VZ

[redmonaro]

After a recommendation for a big radiator for a customers VZ? Its twin turbo 383, what have other people fitted? After maximum cooling effect? Is there a dual pass radiator available? Thanks

[Blown 454 AWD]

Why do want the biggest for a little 383?

I ran a LS3 6.8 Litre TT R35's pulled 516 awkw 1600 nm?

I did this with the standard cooling system and had no problems what so ever.

It's a fair bit of $$$ what you're about to do, your biggest challenge is fans!!!

The OEM commodore fans set up can't be beaten, it's the way the cowling seals right round the radiator and suck the whole radiator.

This time 454ci with 4 Litre Whipple @15psi I went pwr biggest fans etc, had heaps of trouble bleeding the air out,

guess it has heaps of reserve cooling left, cooling all good now, haven't seen a benefit as no different to the old set up with performance so far?

A clean healthy standard cooling system takes a bit of beating.

Just things for you to consider

Cheers

Steve

[vy2ttr]

I agree with above, my tt 383 runs a std cooling system set-up.

Mine never gets hot, even on 40 plus degree days, and continued pull after pull on dyno.

I have seen people have more trouble with aftermarket radiators that keep on overheating. Why change from a know good system ?

[HSV Listy]

I use a race radiator 68mm version in the vx but the vz have a better set up from the factory. As Steve said the bigger radiators give grief bleeding them. Mine is still not right after 3 attempts and I get peaks of high temp but true temp is perfect.
$850 delivered.

[IJ.]

PWR here, only bought it as I was converting from V6 to V8 at the time and the systems are different enough that I couldn't reuse the V6 one, well worth trying the stock Rad first as aftermarket is damn expensive and I've read a LOT of people getting by with a good condition stocker!

[seldo]

Really don't see the point in trying fix it if it isn't broken...

[johnv]

576 rwkw here with a VZ radiator , 160 deg thermostat and Mezier electric water pump.
Zerrow issues with cooling, can be a pain to bleed without a vaccume bleeder.

Biggest improvement i've seen with cooling was after fitting a reverse cowel bonnet, allows so much more heat to be pulled out of the engine bay.
It will almost run too cool on a really cold day , just cruising at 100 ks.

[feistl]

Hey mate,

Ive gone down the path of a PWR VX (manual) radiator and havnt had any issues. I think being the VX version and running the remote recovery tank (which im using an ASE one mounted near the ABS module rather than the standard plastic one on the passenger side) i dont have any bleeding issues at all, whereas the VZ version doesnt run this recovery tank and can cause issues bleeding.

I changed a number of things when i put the PWR unit in, so no real "comparative" testing data, however anecdotal evidence suggests the PWR can drop temps a bit quicker and obviously has a bigger surface area.

I would be seriously looking at an engine oil cooler though, you'd be surprised how much cooling effect the oil has on overall engine temp. I would say that spending money on an engine oil cooler (Plus thermostat) is a better idea than going a bigger radiator. Of course, if you can do both thats even better again.

I am having heat issues even with an upgraded radiator and engine oil cooler but i think this is caused by the limited amount of airflow through the standard VX SS front bar (~55cm2 from memory). So i am in the process of fitting a VZ Monaro front end, as it has 128cm2 cooling area. Interestingly, GM told HSV that the LSA requires 128cm2 of cooling (HSV front bar actually delivers 130cm2). So yeah, standard cooling system is pretty good but can certainly use an engine oil cooler if the car is going to see any circuit track work.

Cheers

[Micks]

I'm really puzzled why you guys run cooler stats! In reality a cooler stat give you "zero" more cooling capacity!!

[IJ.]

I'm really puzzled why you guys run cooler stats! In reality a cooler stat give you "zero" more cooling capacity!!
It gives a little more headroom at the start of a run until you reach the Cooling system's equilibrium point, then if you don't have enough cooling capacity it's going to overheat no matter what..

Stock T Stat in mine and it's fine under power.

[Micks]

It gives a little more headroom at the start of a run until you reach the Cooling system's equilibrium point, then if you don't have enough cooling capacity it's going to overheat no matter what..

Stock T Stat in mine and it's fine under power.

Spot on ;) Only cap you have is the HOR from the core fins/inch. & tank size! Stock stat is great to get the motor up to norm op temp fast!

[Blown 454 AWD]

Ha ha, I have all you require down stairs done 35,000 Klms :wave:

Adventra now runs PWR and got it bang on now,

with bleeding, top up, leave cap off, come back next day and top up again,

takes 3-4 days for the level to settle down,

or vacuum fill the radiator and get it first time.

Looked at an electric water pump, right one is great, you remove the thermostat,

Pump starts slowly (after warming) and speeds up with temperature,

Stops the shock of thermostat opening full and shocking engine with cold water on start up.

Biggest issue with our current water pumps at idle they don't spin fast enough, so we pulley them up,

then it's too fast at high revs, both these conditions can give trouble when you start to change things.

Soon engines won't have water pumps mechanically driven on the front of the engine.

Cheers

Steve

[Micks]

Reckon the biggest prob with the stock Rad if you have prolonged idling, boy that ally sure puts off some heat :yup:

[bozodos]

I'd always wondered why the car's temp never seemed to move up the gauge on cold days until I hit the 60km/h zone!

Isn't the weak point of the stock ones the plastic end tanks?

[Micks]

I'd always wondered why the car's temp never seemed to move up the gauge on cold days until I hit the 60km/h zone!

Isn't the weak point of the stock ones the plastic end tanks?

Yes they flex & crack.

[Carlin1983]

Great post - Im having a Brain Fart moment - How to you work out that the cm2. I have measured the Bumper opening and also the Grill opening.

The Grill opening is aprox - 54cm x 9cm

and the Front bumper opening is apron - 86cm x 7cm

[Micks]

Easy L x B!

[Carlin1983]

Going by them numbers, i shouldn't have a issue - The WL state doesn't have anything sealing off at bottom between bumper and front of radiator. I am assuming id be looseng air out there.

[Micks]

Going by them numbers, i shouldn't have a issue - The WL state doesn't have anything sealing off at bottom between bumper and front of radiator. I am assuming id be looseng air out there.

Best if your concerned about temps monitor them more frequently, personally your worrying for nothing!

[Carlin1983]

Reason i have been looking into it, I have been doing the "Sprint" events at QLD raceway - Only 5 laps at a time. At my last outing by the 4th lap the temp was at 3/4. When i backed off for half a lap, back down to normal. I have since flushed radiator and all new coolant. Radiator is about 18mths old, Stad factory sized one.

[Micks]

Few things that come into play ambient temp, obvious reasons! Fuel your using & Tune. I'd speak to your tuner unless doing it yourself. Generally more timing (advance) will keep the temps down than retard that will increase temp. :teach:

[Carlin1983]

I also have replaced Thermostat - It appeared to be warn, rubber perished

[Micks]

If your truly worried about the stat, just remove it! Will only be a pig till it reaches normal temp. But when doing track work there will be nil restriction.

[IJ.]

If your truly worried about the stat, just remove it! Will only be a pig till it reaches normal temp. But when doing track work there will be nil restriction.

If you're going to do this grab a set of Moroso Restrictor plates, sometimes wide open isn't best as it doesn't allow enough resident time in the radiator to reject all the heat..

[Micks]

If you're going to do this grab a set of Moroso Restrictor plates, sometimes wide open isn't best as it doesn't allow enough resident time in the radiator to reject all the heat..
:) The stock stat takes a lot of beating.

[IJ.]

:) The stock stat takes a lot of beating.
But having said that I've had a couple of dodgy sticky ones over the last few years... :(

[HSV Listy]

Ha ha, I have all you require down stairs done 35,000 Klms :wave:

Adventra now runs PWR and got it bang on now,

with bleeding, top up, leave cap off, come back next day and top up again,

takes 3-4 days for the level to settle down,

or vacuum fill the radiator and get it first time.

Looked at an electric water pump, right one is great, you remove the thermostat,

Pump starts slowly (after warming) and speeds up with temperature,

Stops the shock of thermostat opening full and shocking engine with cold water on start up.

Biggest issue with our current water pumps at idle they don't spin fast enough, so we pulley them up,

then it's too fast at high revs, both these conditions can give trouble when you start to change things.

Soon engines won't have water pumps mechanically driven on the front of the engine.

Cheers

Steve

Tried the technique without luck. My heater tap died so air must be in the system still. Can you just plug the heater tap pipe end off as I dont need heater up here ever. Does it need to run.
See photo Result from driving around town temp sits good the goes up.

When I bled it I Tried with the heater on full blast, coke bottle trick raising water level to the system and rad cap off to bleed sitting at idle and all good. Tried over a few days and level did not drop a mm from rad cap.

Any other tricks people know off the get air out.
Radiator is a 68mm, 3 pass, race radiator brand. Not far off the best you can get.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps00bb4ad4.jpg (http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps00bb4ad4.jpg.html)


This is when I stop with just ignition on after it goes hot so water settled and it shows the temp is actually perfect but when you start it it goes up again. Heat gun shows 88deg on the pipes so all good.

Op is your temp actually up or is there a air lock. Pretty hard on the track to shut the car off and test though.

Still the race radiator is one of the biggest around. I have all sides blocked, undertray and huge opening on the front.
If you can stop air going under the radiator it should help. Would be awful tight with TT

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4f4e3aba.jpg (http://s277.photobucket.com/user/HSVListy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4f4e3aba.jpg.html)

[IJ.]

Have you tried putting the Dash in engineering mode or put a scan gauge on it to see what temp it's running at?

Stock gauge in my VZ is more a serving suggestion so I'm assuming early ones are as well...

The Heater tap is part of the Bypass circuit not sure blanking it is going to be a good idea, maybe look at looping the 2 fittings on the pump together.

[Carlin1983]

Im thinking a buying one of these - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321235999858?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
to monitor Water Temp with.

[IJ.]

Im thinking a buying one of these - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321235999858?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
to monitor Water Temp with.
I just use a ScanGauge II in mine, have it set up to Display Boost, Coolant Temp, Trans Temp and Oil Pressure, it's also handy if it throws a code that needs clearing :)

[Carlin1983]

I just use a ScanGauge II in mine, have it set up to Display Boost, Coolant Temp, Trans Temp and Oil Pressure, it's also handy if it throws a code that needs clearing :)

i put ScanGauge 2 into ebay - are they all the same - or should i be careful to not get a knock off

[HSV Listy]

That looks cool. I run a innovate Motorsport obd2 version and extra oil pressure analogue sensor. water temp will pick up the normal sender in the normal position. I will put it on record next outing and connect some data
Sometimes you forget the basics.
Op if you do get it let me know your thoughts.

[IJ.]

i put ScanGauge 2 into ebay - are they all the same - or should i be careful to not get a knock off
I got mine from "Ample Outdoors" not sure if there are knockoffs never seen any reports of them.


That looks cool. I run a innovate Motorsport obd2 version and extra oil pressure analogue sensor. water temp will pick up the normal sender in the normal position. I will put it on record next outing and connect some data
Sometimes you forget the basics.
Op if you do get it let me know your thoughts.
Will be very interested to see what the actual temps are Listy! :)

I used to freak anytime mine went over 100c as in the old days that was imminent death.. Had an Electrical issue earlier this month and the short took out the Fans, saw 125c with no ill effects, other than it puked coolant out the recovery tank and have seen 110c in traffic on 40c+ days with the AC on..

[Blown 454 AWD]

Over the years (when I was on the bench) we had a rubber hose about 2 feet long

and it would fit just inside the radiator filler, we would then take a heater hoses off

hold up and fill the hose in the radiator to the top, this pushed water through the heater

and hoses and you would see all the air bubble out, then flow nicely, bled system. (make sure the heater tap is on)

Many of the earlier GM vehicles had this issue.

Cheers

Steve

[Micks]

I find over 48hrs following an initial fill the air bleeds out ok & small top up is only required.