Charging my LS1 soon

[Crazykent]

Just got a few questions i hoped some intelligent lads could offer some insight on.

Going the harrop 1900 over the 2300 if im never going to stroke it is the aboslute best choice, correct?

if i wanted more power before it goes on the dyno i was thinking of doing something with the heads
do you just get work done to your stock heads or do you buy aftermarket ones? what would the cost of either be
and is it worth it for the power gain?

i've got a growler intake now i was told it would help improve power to go with the VCM airbox, is that worth the
extra 500 bucks? wouldn't the growler be much the same if both are an airbox style intake?

Thanks for your time!

[white lie]

1900 or 2300 will be fine, only other option would be a Whipple. Some say the 2300 works well, others the 1900. My opinion is that if they can run 1900's on 6L's and bigger than its adequate for a 5.7L.
I run a Maggie 1900 and don't regret going with the smaller one. Makes plenty of power, runs fast times and throttle response is awesome.

Can do either. I would just send them to Higgins and either get him to port yours or exchange them. Plenty of people have gone the aftermarket route though (there's a set in the FS section that would work well actually).
Do you have a cam in it yet? I wouldn't bother with the heads unless you've got a decent cam or plan on doing it. If you haven't got either, then you're starting to look at 4500-5500 here already, in which case, I would just go straight to the blower and slot a cam in later, leaving the heads stock.

I wouldn't bother with the VCM box. A sealed pod tends to work well with blowers but IMO the difference between what you have now and other options is more the 'icing on the cake'. Put the blower on, see how it goes. When you crave a little more, then play with the airbox, throttle body, cam, E85 etc etc etc

[Micks]

Bloody good advice, your almost swaying me too! But I know I couldn't help myself frying the rears, ending up changing the tyres every coupla months! :burnout:

[feistl]

I know the prices have crept up slightly, but what about doing an LSA conversion? $12,500 from Holmart.... Sell your motor off for $1k (or leave it as a spare in case you decide to go back to stock and sell the car). How much are the 1900/2300s going for these days? For that bit extra a brand new crate motor with newer tech, bigger capacity seems to be a viable option?

[Micks]

Good idea but cost will depend how much you do yourself? Pre 6L models will require more work, converter boxes, ext harnesses, injector adapters, throttle body etc etc.

[offshore]

The only thing I see with the 2300 vs the 1900 is it can flow more air with less boost. There's lots of variables though and I come from a turbo back ground mainly and thats even harder trying to work out whats best!

[feistl]

The only thing I see with the 2300 vs the 1900 is it can flow more air with less boost. There's lots of variables though and I come from a turbo back ground mainly and thats even harder trying to work out whats best!

Partly correct, the bigger charger can flow more volume at a given rpm, but technically speaking more air = more boost. You dont need to spin a 2300 as fast to make the same boost level as the 1900, which can result in less heat being produced but it depends on a number of factors.

[v8fazz]

Mate, the 1900 will be perfect.

My VY LS1 ute has a Harrop 1900, boost friendly cam, fuel system, standard heads (your forcing air into them anyway) @ 10psi and PLENTY of power, along with a mountain of torque. WAY more power than anyone would ever "need" for a daily driver.

Any honestly, if and when the engine ever gives up I'd most likely just rebuild it with a stronger bottom end and wouldnt bother stroking it, its simply not really needed if your blower install is set up right.

Just do it!!! :)

[FrangaFry]

Mate, the 1900 will be perfect.

My VY LS1 ute has a Harrop 1900, boost friendly cam, fuel system, standard heads (your forcing air into them anyway) @ 10psi and PLENTY of power, along with a mountain of torque. WAY more power than anyone would ever "need" for a daily driver.

Any honestly, if and when the engine ever gives up I'd most likely just rebuild it with a stronger bottom end and wouldnt bother stroking it, its simply not really needed if your blower install is set up right.

Just do it!!! :)

Yep, what he said!!! :rofl:

I dream of stroking, but I know its just a dream; I'm also running an LS1 with a 1900, friendly cam and fuel system upgrade and the reality is that it is PLENTY powerful for the road ......... plus, as I keep finding out ................... bits break with all that power *wink* ............ (not complaining mind you.............)

x2 - Just do it!!! :chuckapproves:

[v8fazz]

What have you broken so far Franga?

Ive had no dramas yet (already had NPC clutch and also got Trutrac at the same time as blower) but then you need traction for things to break, and with the M6 and 3.9's it can break traction pretty much at will! :)

[XUV]

I really shouldn't click on super charging an LS1 threads, when I've just convinced myself for the 3rd time I don't need one .............

[IJ.]

I really shouldn't click on super charging an LS1 threads, when I've just convinced myself for the 3rd time I don't need one .............

Everyone "needs" one ;)

[XUV]

Everyone "needs" one ;)
shut up , shut up, shut up ;)

[IJ.]

shut up , shut up, shut up ;)

Might be the last chance we have to own something like this, I for one don't intend to miss out :D

[feistl]

I remember that horrible time in my life before I had a supercharger, it was like being virgin all over again. All my mates seemed to be getting them, and I was stuck with NA. Then finally my time came and I too got to join the club. Life has been wonderful ever since ;-) I'm just waiting for the opportunity to have a go with 2 (superchargers that is)

[XUV]

Might be the last chance we have to own something like this, I for one don't intend to miss out :D
untill we do hydro fuel cell or electric motor swaps .......

[v8fazz]

Once you get one, you will honestly wonder how you ever did without one before.. :)

[XUV]

I remember that horrible time in my life before I had a supercharger, it was like being virgin all over again. All my mates seemed to be getting them, and I was stuck with NA. Then finally my time came and I too got to join the club. Life has been wonderful ever since ;-) I'm just waiting for the opportunity to have a go with 2 (superchargers that is)
not helping ;)

where does it end, when we had 308's and 350 chevs we dreamt about 400hp , now we have that on tap we want 600hp ......

Thou , I'm not against it and I'm looking for some under bonnet wow factor
and have been looking at the 8 throttle bodies and that twin throttle body x thing on that 516 ls motor (that i can't find the vid of) did impress.

To those about to be blown, more power to you :)

[FrangaFry]

What have you broken so far Franga?

Ive had no dramas yet (already had NPC clutch and also got Trutrac at the same time as blower) but then you need traction for things to break, and with the M6 and 3.9's it can break traction pretty much at will! :)

G'day mate, hmmm let me think, half shafts (rooted), tail shaft (rooted), A4 (rooted ....... twice.......), diff (maybe not rooted, but gives me the shits..... has been re built once already) ......... in the never ending chasing of 'noise' (real or imagined.......) replaced nearly all the rubber under car (front and rear - first with aftermarket then back to OEM for the rear end......) .... and 'lots' of tyres (although, I am more fortunate than most in that I work for a well known tyre company .......... so, some pay back there...);

Having said all the above, I am the first to admit that I (can be a 'little' anal) and have probably expected too much in regards to a 10 year old car with 350rwkw/715nm ......... I am sure it could have been worse (especially if I was 18 ........)........ Don't get me wrong, all the above is in the last 2 years (and allot is probably more due to the age of the car rather than the power ........... although.........).

All par for the coarse I am sure - at the end of the day .... you play, you pay........... *wink*

BUT, every single time I get into my Wagon and get to feel that push back in the seat, with all that lovely blower whine and grumbly noises coming out the rear................. god damn it makes me smile!!!! - Is it worth all the arguments with the minister - god damn right it is!

[Micks]

Great post Franga too true :)

[v8fazz]

BUT, every single time I get into my Wagon and get to feel that push back in the seat, with all that lovely blower whine and grumbly noises coming out the rear................. god damn it makes me smile!!!!

Couldnt agree more mate! Mine has the toothed rear belts as well and at first I was a bit worried about how loud it was, but now I wouldnt have it any other way. When my exhaust system got damaged on an interstate trip last year, I actually replaced it with a quieter version of the same system as I wanted to hear more belt whistle and blower whine from the front, and less exhaust noise at the rear! :)

Maybe Ive been lucky as I have a bit more at the wheels and no breakages yet, although clutch was done at the same time as cam (12 months before blower) and new half shafts (standard) were fitted at the same time as the 3.9's (before the cam). I was concerned about the standard tailshaft but was assured it would be fine, and has been so far, but I did fit a safety loop just in case. If anything I thought the half shafts would be the first to go but so far so good. As mentioned - with the M6 and 3.9's I think Im always going to lose traction before anything has a chance to break. Diff has been great with the Harrop Trutrac.

Im guessing the T56 might be first to give up sooner or later thanks to way too much torque :)

[white lie]

*touch wood* nothing broken here... 1.5X 60 footers and low 11's on a regular basis, put some E85 in to it soon and hopefully run a 10 in my barge. Doesn't break anything when it has full traction, so no worries on street tyres!

[v8fazz]

*touch wood* nothing broken here... 1.5X 60 footers and low 11's on a regular basis, put some E85 in to it soon and hopefully run a 10 in my barge. Doesn't break anything when it has full traction, so no worries on street tyres!

This is something I really need to do - a few runs down the strip with some sticky rear tyres. If anything is going to break this is when I'll find the weak link.

Unfortunately no local track at the moment so its a matter of timing so I can travel to the nearest one. I'd much rather break someting in a controled environment rather than on a long trip in the middle of nowhere!

[FrangaFry]

*touch wood* nothing broken here... 1.5X 60 footers and low 11's on a regular basis, put some E85 in to it soon and hopefully run a 10 in my barge. Doesn't break anything when it has full traction, so no worries on street tyres!

Manual or auto White lie? I'm getting the picture that manuals are a little softer on the drive train than a stalled auto with firm shit points (perhaps i need a manual coversion instead of rebuilding my auto for a 3rd time .... LOL)

E85 would be a great option for more power but not so sure about the availability, especially on country runs...... Will you have the ability to switch between tunes depending on what fuel you use?

[white lie]

Auto, 4500 converter :D
Brutal launches but seems softer than dropping the clutch on a manual.

E85 is only available at 4 servo's over here at the moment. I'd change to it, run a 10 and get kicked out then go back to 98. Even though my cars not a daily anymore, I couldn't run E85 all the time.
It's possible to run dual tunes with a flash tuner on VT-VZ but not many people tune with them compared to EFI Live and HP Tuners. VE/VF can run both fuels a lot easier.

[IJ.]

Auto, 4500 converter :D
Brutal launches but seems softer than dropping the clutch on a manual.

E85 is only available at 4 servo's over here at the moment. I'd change to it, run a 10 and get kicked out then go back to 98. Even though my cars not a daily anymore, I couldn't run E85 all the time.
It's possible to run dual tunes with a flash tuner on VT-VZ but not many people tune with them compared to EFI Live and HP Tuners. VE/VF can run both fuels a lot easier.

VZ 6.0L onwards can run full Flexfuel with a Sensor no probs at all :)

[wolfeh_]

Bring your car over white lie, I wanna hear this beast! :P

[v8fazz]

E85 would be a great option for more power but not so sure about the availability, especially on country runs......

Standard diameter balancer, 80mm front pulley, toother rear belts (also gives a little bit of overdrive), Boost friendly cam designed for low and mid range torque (723 nm without the blower), M6, 3.9 Trutrac, 98 fuel = a touch over 400 rwkw and a little over 1020 rwtq :)

http://upit.cc/i/8ba65d47.jpg

[Micks]

Luv the torque results these blown jobs are producing :drool:
Another job well done by Jezza!

[v8fazz]

Yep the cam is a Jezza special ;)

Forgot to mention, all of the above brings it up to 10psi, and with the idler re-wrap kit there are no issues at all with belt slip.

[korrupt]

Do you need to do anything with the fuel pump (or rest of the system) for the 1900 unit ?

[white lie]

It may be fine on very low boost but I personally wouldn't bother or even trust it. Bigger intank pump as a minimum, otherwise feed in to a surge and decent pump (or pumps) after that. Kit comes with 60lb injectors and rails to suit

[IJ.]

FI and a stock fuel system... Russian Roulette with 5 loaded chambers.... :(

[v8fazz]

On standard boost I believe it may be ok but a Walbro intank would still be a good idea. But then you still run the risk of the pump sucking air if the tank gets low.

I have one of these - http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?136575-HDTCQ-700hp-UTE-Fuel-System-4-2ltr

Gives me room to grow a bit later down the track, and I dont have to worry about sucking air if the main tank gets a bit low :)

[Micks]

Too risky as how old is the existing pump? If it dies @ wot good night mota!

[IJ.]

"Sucking air"?? WTF...

It's in a bucket, by the time it "sucks air" it stops 30 seconds later

where do you guys get this crap....

[v8fazz]

Sorry, I was referring to fuel starvation during hard cornering, spirited driving, etc if the fuel tank happens to get very low and the pick up is no longer submerged in fuel. As we all know you shouldnt let the tank get this low anyway, but it can and does occur sometimes for various reasons.

A surge tank will obviously prevent this from happening since the main tank feeds the surge tank, and the surge tank feeds the engine.

Maybe I should of chosen my words better..

[IJ.]

Sorry, I was referring to fuel starvation during hard cornering, spirited driving, etc if the fuel tank happens to get very low and the pick up is no longer submerged in fuel. As we all know you shouldnt let the tank get this low anyway, but it can and does occur sometimes for various reasons.

A surge tank will obviously prevent this from happening since the main tank feeds the surge tank, and the surge tank feeds the engine.

Maybe I should of chosen my words better..
The Pump and pickup are in a spring loaded bucket pressed against the bottom of the tank... Unless you're into a very very very long high G corner I can't see what you're describing happening..
(I do however run an 8 Litre Surge tank so it can't ever ;) )

[v8fazz]

The Pump and pickup are in a spring loaded bucket pressed against the bottom of the tank... Unless you're into a very very very long high G corner I can't see what you're describing happening..
(I do however run an 8 Litre Surge tank so it can't ever ;) )

Ok, no problems. All Im going on is what Ive been told over the years but Im always happy to be corrected and to learn something new :)

I was always under the impression that it was for these reasons that most people fit surge tanks? But from what you said it would be more of a safety measure / extra insurance just to be sure it never has the chance of happening, hence your 8 litre tank! ;)

Im happy to have the peace of mind knowing its there and I dont have to worry!

[IJ.]

The stock system doesn't do too bad a job, the bucket acts like an internal 2 Litre surge tank, just needs a decent pump or 2 in there.

Mine only has a 64L main tank so the extra 8 helps out a bit and made it easier to mount the 2x 460L Walbro E-85 pumps and had the added bonus of preventing any possibilty of surge on track days.

[v8fazz]

No worries, thanks for the info IJ. :)

[Crazykent]

1900 or 2300 will be fine, only other option would be a Whipple. Some say the 2300 works well, others the 1900. My opinion is that if they can run 1900's on 6L's and bigger than its adequate for a 5.7L.
I run a Maggie 1900 and don't regret going with the smaller one. Makes plenty of power, runs fast times and throttle response is awesome.

Can do either. I would just send them to Higgins and either get him to port yours or exchange them. Plenty of people have gone the aftermarket route though (there's a set in the FS section that would work well actually).
Do you have a cam in it yet? I wouldn't bother with the heads unless you've got a decent cam or plan on doing it. If you haven't got either, then you're starting to look at 4500-5500 here already, in which case, I would just go straight to the blower and slot a cam in later, leaving the heads stock.

I wouldn't bother with the VCM box. A sealed pod tends to work well with blowers but IMO the difference between what you have now and other options is more the 'icing on the cake'. Put the blower on, see how it goes. When you crave a little more, then play with the airbox, throttle body, cam, E85 etc etc etc

Yeh i saw those heads but like with the blower he's selling too i already decided i wasn't going to buy anything with moving parts 2nd hand
and run the risk of buying someone else problems or potential for problems.

1900 it is then.

Well with the cost of the blower already and the potential for things to break in the future with all this new power i dont think ill be doing a cam for long time.

Ok i will stick with the growler.

Thanks for that mate very informative.

[Crazykent]

I know the prices have crept up slightly, but what about doing an LSA conversion? $12,500 from Holmart.... Sell your motor off for $1k (or leave it as a spare in case you decide to go back to stock and sell the car). How much are the 1900/2300s going for these days? For that bit extra a brand new crate motor with newer tech, bigger capacity seems to be a viable option?

Yeh as micks said. already looked into it, got unnecesarily excited lol.

[Crazykent]

Mate, the 1900 will be perfect.

My VY LS1 ute has a Harrop 1900, boost friendly cam, fuel system, standard heads (your forcing air into them anyway) @ 10psi and PLENTY of power, along with a mountain of torque. WAY more power than anyone would ever "need" for a daily driver.

Any honestly, if and when the engine ever gives up I'd most likely just rebuild it with a stronger bottom end and wouldnt bother stroking it, its simply not really needed if your blower install is set up right.

Just do it!!! :)

I am certain of the 1900 now after reading through this thread.

Everyone seems to have a cam with their blower, what am i missing out on?

Im already up for 12 grand or whatever for the blower another 7 grand to do a cam upgrade hardly seems worth it. Given ill need to do the internals too right?

[feistl]

Depends how aggressive the cam is. I mean if you go big, yeah the costs really add up. But if your doing a blower (which means a retune) getting a blower specific cam (something like the stock GT9 cam) wont require a big outlay. Decent set of springs (Which you should do anyway) and the cam itself. Considering your already paying for the tune, its worth looking at. Again though, im talking a small blower specific cam... Anything "big" is a different story in terms of cost.

[Micks]

I am certain of the 1900 now after reading through this thread.

Everyone seems to have a cam with their blower, what am i missing out on?

Im already up for 12 grand or whatever for the blower another 7 grand to do a cam upgrade hardly seems worth it. Given ill need to do the internals too right?

Ya blower install price drive in drive out sounds right. But an extra 7K for a cam upgrade way too much, 3-3.5k tops especially so at the same time blower goes on as it will only need tuning/dyno time once!
You would get cam + Heads & Lifters for your 7K!!

[Crazykent]

Ok just to give you all a run down of whats going on. Because i am planning this out until the time comes to do it and want it all to be spot on.

Car:

VZ SS ute
Auto
3.7s
110,000 on the clock
previous lady owner
i dont do burnouts
Stock brakes
monroe gt gas shocks
super lows

Plan:

Diffilipo 3 inch exhaust with 1 7/8 headers
harrop 1900
7psi
tuned for 98 (i spose?)
Growler airbox

Any suggestions power-wise?

My plan is to get the blower put on, then get the brakes upgraded (i dont know what to). Then get the auto built, then some coilovers.

Also i have the option of going magnison 1900 or harrop, apparently the whine on the mag is less, wouldnt i be better going with the quieter whine so
i dont get sick of it?

[Crazykent]

Depends how aggressive the cam is. I mean if you go big, yeah the costs really add up. But if your doing a blower (which means a retune) getting a blower specific cam (something like the stock GT9 cam) wont require a big outlay. Decent set of springs (Which you should do anyway) and the cam itself. Considering your already paying for the tune, its worth looking at. Again though, im talking a small blower specific cam... Anything "big" is a different story in terms of cost.

ok, i will look into that! But just for the sake of it, what will that add to the car? better sound and? im just curiously excited, i know the more power/torque i add
the more things i have to reinforce but yeh i just like knowing whats to come.

[Crazykent]

Ya blower install price drive in drive out sounds right. But an extra 7K for a cam upgrade way too much, 3-3.5k tops especially so at the same time blower goes on as it will only need tuning/dyno time once!
You would get cam + Heads & Lifters for your 7K!!

Mmm that 7k was a price for changing all the internals that a cam upgrade could affect, i can't remember what the guy said exactly but yeh. nevermind lol

[Micks]

Purely a guess without a cam if your LS1 is in good nick @ present would estimate about 350rwkw+ but it all depends...The torque will be something else though :bow:
Yes don't overlook, Brakes, Drivetrain, Suspension & probably Fuel system as well, most important!:teach:

[white lie]

Fuel system for sure.
At least a big intank pump like the Walbro, otherwise use the stock pump to feed a surge tank, but either way you have to drop the tank to do it, so may as well just put a Walbro in there, at least you know it's new and shouldn't die anytime soon.

I put my blower on with the stock 6psi pulley, made 450rwhp thru a big stalled auto. I was back in a week to change the pulley to a 10psi one. IMO even though it made good power, it didn't feel enough for the cost of everything. The smaller pulley is only about $200 and will yield another 30-50rwhp.

If you want more noise you can put toothed gears on the back of either of them. Otherwise leave the normal drives on there and they'll be pretty quiet. Would struggle to hear mine over the exhaust

[Crazykent]

Purely a guess without a cam if your LS1 is in good nick @ present would estimate about 350rwkw+ but it all depends...The torque will be something else though :bow:
Yes don't overlook, Brakes, Drivetrain, Suspension & probably Fuel system as well, most important!:teach:

Hehe i am getting excited. In a way a man can get excited about a car, addrenaline lol.

fuel system and trans cooler is included in total blower price. im pretty sure.

[Crazykent]

Fuel system for sure.
At least a big intank pump like the Walbro, otherwise use the stock pump to feed a surge tank, but either way you have to drop the tank to do it, so may as well just put a Walbro in there, at least you know it's new and shouldn't die anytime soon.

I put my blower on with the stock 6psi pulley, made 450rwhp thru a big stalled auto. I was back in a week to change the pulley to a 10psi one. IMO even though it made good power, it didn't feel enough for the cost of everything. The smaller pulley is only about $200 and will yield another 30-50rwhp.

If you want more noise you can put toothed gears on the back of either of them. Otherwise leave the normal drives on there and they'll be pretty quiet. Would struggle to hear mine over the exhaust

Ok ill mention that to autotechnique, whos doing it. I just cant remember what was said about the fuel system when we spoke thats all.

So you reckon just put the 10psi straight on?

toothed gears on what? on the blower? Sorry im not clued in on a lot of this stuff.

Thanks for everything man. Very helpful. Same to you Micks.

[Micks]

Reckon that ain't a bad deal! Don't get excited on proposed dyno/power figures though as the balloon could be prematurely deflated!!
Rest assured any increase will give you a smile you won't forget in a while!!

[Crazykent]

Reckon that ain't a bad deal! Don't get excited on proposed dyno/power figures though as the balloon could be prematurely deflated!!
Rest assured any increase will give you a smile you won't forget in a while!!

Haha understood! Good rhyme :-)

[v8fazz]

Ok ill mention that to autotechnique, whos doing it. I just cant remember what was said about the fuel system when we spoke thats all.

So you reckon just put the 10psi straight on?

toothed gears on what? on the blower? Sorry im not clued in on a lot of this stuff.

Thanks for everything man. Very helpful. Same to you Micks.

You can get a toothed rear belt/pully set up that remove the chance of any belt slip at the back but they are definitely a lot louder than the standard rear belts. I was a bit worried at first about how loud it was but now I wouldnt have it any other way! The belts whistle quite loud even when idling, and then you put your foot down and the whistle is joined by the whine from the actual blower and its great, VERY Addictive! :) The toothed set up also gives you a little bit of overdrive as well for a slight increase in boost.

If you do step it up to 10 psi with the smaller pully I'd also highly recommend the front belt idler re-wrap kit that re-routes the front belt under the radiator hose and gives you a lot more belt wrap around the front pully. Ive had no signs of any belt slip front or rear with this set up at 10 psi.

[Crazykent]

You can get a toothed rear belt/pully set up that remove the chance of any belt slip at the back but they are definitely a lot louder than the standard rear belts. I was a bit worried at first about how loud it was but now I wouldnt have it any other way! The belts whistle quite loud even when idling, and then you put your foot down and the whistle is joined by the whine from the actual blower and its great, VERY Addictive! :) The toothed set up also gives you a little bit of overdrive as well for a slight increase in boost.

If you do step it up to 10 psi with the smaller pully I'd also highly recommend the front belt idler re-wrap kit that re-routes the front belt under the radiator hose and gives you a lot more belt wrap around the front pully. Ive had no signs of any belt slip front or rear with this set up at 10 psi.

I guess im worrying about something i know next to nothing about im sure ill learn to love the sound.

Could you elaborate on belt slip? is it bad? it seems i'd lose a bit of power? but wont wear out the belt as quick?

i will mention the re-wrap kit to the mech.

[white lie]

Its bad as it slips the pulley on the blower, which means it doesn't turn fast enough to produce the desired boost. But more so that it's erratic, it will spin and slip as it grips or doesn't grip which can be bad for the motor as the boost will be up and down like a yo-yo rather than a flat line. Usually happens in the upper revs.

The re-wrap kit allows a lot more contact area around the pulley.

[Crazykent]

ok chit hot ill get it then thanks brotha

[v8fazz]

Just as a bit of a guide for you, here are the prices I paid mid last year-

Gilmore Rear Drive Kit $522.50inc GST (1.14:1 OR 1.03:1 ratios available)
6PK Idler Re-Wrap $236.50inc GST

As you can see things can add up very quickly. Also keep in mind that if you do take it up to 10psi theres a good chance you might have to also get bigger injectors as I did. The ones that came with the blower werent enough. I have the 1.14:1 Gilmore rear drive, 80mm front pully, idler re-wrap kit, and standard diameter aftermarket balancer for 10psi.

[feistl]

Good advice v8fazz,

Further to that, once you start going bigger boost levels you might find (like i have) that the stock intercooler heat exchanger isnt really big enough to handle the extra heat being generated... It never ends :).

I do recommend the rewrap kit, primarily as you can change the belt without having to drain your radiator. Very important if you snap a belt on the road somewhere (Should always carry a spare in the spare wheel well). What should be a 5 minute fix can turn into a very expensive pain in the butt.

(For what its worth, apparently (I have read on these forums but havnt done enough km yet to verify myself) the belts tend to only last around 10,000km before needing replacement. So yeah, very much recommend the rewrap kit.

The rear gilmore kit depends on how much boost and what sort of driving you do. If stock boost the standard setup is probably ok, if your going more boost then its probably good insurance. That said, its not "overly" difficult to change, but does mean pulling the supercharger off the engine. if your doing it yourself its not big deal (could swap it over in an afternoon), but if you have to pay someone it could add up pretty quickly ($200-300 labor or more).

So once again i give the same advice, try and work out what level your going to take the car to. Build it for that future level so your not redoing work (and spending extra money).

Cheers

[v8fazz]

Exactly Errol.

If sticking to the standard diameter front pully and only running 6psi or so then I have no doubt that the standard rear belts and the Harrop supplied injectors would be fine. And the re-wrap kit is probably not needed either, but it still probably worth having just to have the belt going under the radiator hose instead of over it. But how long would it be before 6psi wasnt enough anymore??

I knew I would never be happy with 6psi so I went straight to 10psi, so I upgraded everything to suit and added the re-wrap kit to prevent any problems before they start. And being in FNQ I have often thought about looking for an upgraded intercooler but Im not sure what other / better options are availavle. What are you running now Errol?

Cheers.

[white lie]

I didn't even last a week on 6psi before wanting more. For the outlay, it's very lack lustre.
I'd definitely run the belt under the hose, that's the way the Maggie's run it, Ive lost count of the number of times I've had to take the belt off or its spat off or whatever, would be an absolute pain to pull the hose off just for a belt.

I'm still running the 60lbers with 520rwhp thru a big stall. Albeit duty cycle is high but not out of control or excessive.

[v8fazz]

Im pretty sure mine are 60lbs now as well but from memory I think the kit only comes with 42's or 47's, or somewhere around there.

I still have them sitting in the Harrop create if anyone's interested in them! :)

[white lie]

Really? That's pretty average, doesn't allow any scope.
The Maggie kits from CAPA come with 60's.

[v8fazz]

Im not at home to check but Google tells me they come with "High flow injector set - 47lb (HTV1900) or 60lb (HTV2300) all models"

So like you said it doesnt leave much room once you exceed the standard boost level.

[white lie]

I wonder what it costs to upgrade them, pointless taking them IMO, they'll just sit in the box like yours!

[feistl]

To be honest, knowing what i know now, i would buy the "bare" supercharger from harrop then add on the extras. When you buy the kit, in my case i changed the pully size, injections, rear belt drive, change the heat exchanger, add the rewrap kit, changed the reservoir, changed the throttle body and intake section.... So really i changed most of the parts over. Would have been cheaper to just buy the parts i needed... Of course i didnt know till i started putting it together.

[v8fazz]

I got my kit second hand with the 85mm and 80mm pulleys included so I just changed the rear belt drive, injectors, and added the we wrap kit.

What heat exchanger are you using now Errol? How does it compare to the standard one and was it an easy fit? Why the change of reservoir or was it included with the new heat exchanger? Up here I still see some pretty high IAT's. When I drove down to Vic last August the difference in the temps was huge. Thats Nth Qld heat for you!

[feistl]

Afco heat exchanger for a 03-04 cobra. (http://www.uprproducts.com/afco-mustang-cobra-heat-exchanger-03.html).

Dimensions are approx 780mm x 140mm x 70mm.

It literally arrived this morning, so will be fitting up to the car on the weekend.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/Cooler1_zpsc069c193.jpg

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/Cooler2_zps28aa4879.jpg

When i was searching i came across this thread...
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398856

Where someone has used a cobra heat exchanger with a vz monaro bar (which is what ill be using). Hopefully it should have a big impact on intake temperatures. Unfortunately i wont be able to give a perfect comparison as ill be moving the location and setup of the coolers and changing cams (for more power). I originally had the heat exchanger behind the engine oil cooler, now im going to mount it at the very front. Plus changing from the VX SS bar to VZ Monaro bar will help cooling a lot (i hope). The opening of the VZ monaro bar is nearly 250% larger than the VX SS.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/VZmonarocooler_zpsfd381ca8.jpg

EDIT - Oh and im very seriously considering changing the bottle, primarily cause it looks bloody ugly with the default output pipe location and secondly cause a larger bottle will keep temperatures lower in short power bursts.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/UglyHarropbottle_zpsc2a2cd5c.jpg

[v8fazz]

Very nice Errol, thanks. Please keep us all updated on how it all goes mate as Im very interested in the results.

How has the Aeroflow power steering reservoir been, any dramas so far?

Cheers.

[Crazykent]

Just as a bit of a guide for you, here are the prices I paid mid last year-

Gilmore Rear Drive Kit $522.50inc GST (1.14:1 OR 1.03:1 ratios available)
6PK Idler Re-Wrap $236.50inc GST

As you can see things can add up very quickly. Also keep in mind that if you do take it up to 10psi theres a good chance you might have to also get bigger injectors as I did. The ones that came with the blower werent enough. I have the 1.14:1 Gilmore rear drive, 80mm front pully, idler re-wrap kit, and standard diameter aftermarket balancer for 10psi.

Thanks for that man very helpful indeed. Its great to think that this thread started off with some basic questions about the initial setup and now
i've got you guys giving me all sorts of insight for what ill most likely end up doing later on an saving my heaps of $$

I decided im gonna write down every point made in this thread and show it to autotechnique, then i can't go wrong.

Ill just talk to autotechnique they are good guys maybe they can just get all the right stuff from the beginning otherwise ill just buy it myself.



Good advice v8fazz,

Further to that, once you start going bigger boost levels you might find (like i have) that the stock intercooler heat exchanger isnt really big enough to handle the extra heat being generated... It never ends :).

I do recommend the rewrap kit, primarily as you can change the belt without having to drain your radiator. Very important if you snap a belt on the road somewhere (Should always carry a spare in the spare wheel well). What should be a 5 minute fix can turn into a very expensive pain in the butt.

(For what its worth, apparently (I have read on these forums but havnt done enough km yet to verify myself) the belts tend to only last around 10,000km before needing replacement. So yeah, very much recommend the rewrap kit.

The rear gilmore kit depends on how much boost and what sort of driving you do. If stock boost the standard setup is probably ok, if your going more boost then its probably good insurance. That said, its not "overly" difficult to change, but does mean pulling the supercharger off the engine. if your doing it yourself its not big deal (could swap it over in an afternoon), but if you have to pay someone it could add up pretty quickly ($200-300 labor or more).

So once again i give the same advice, try and work out what level your going to take the car to. Build it for that future level so your not redoing work (and spending extra money).

Cheers

(standard heat exchanger) I will mention that and see what ideas they have.

(re wrap kit) I am listening, i will deffinately make that happen.

(rear gilmore kit) in what other circumstances would the rear gilmore kit be necessary? ill be running 10psi and its spirited driving on roads
might take to the track once and ill rarely be dragging people. And i would have no idea how to take the supercharger off, is it for a different belt
to ensure it doesn't break so i dont have to change it?

[Crazykent]

the only thing thats pissing me off now is the exhaust. cause thats $3500. the shop was gonna put a diffilipo 17/8 headers and 3 inch diffilipo
so i've been trying to find some headers and a exhaust if im luck an i found some ceramic coated headers but a guy has em in queensland for 800 bucks an i found another set but the guy doesn't want to split it from the exhaust which i can understand but they're only 400 bucks.
:S

[feistl]

Bear with me, this could a slightly long but hopefully informative post.
So getting back to very basics, the harrop superchargers are rated at a certain volumetric size which means the amount of air they pump per revolution. The HTV1900 will flow 1900cc per rpm, while the HTV2300 will flow 2300cc per rpm. In essence, the superchargers create boost by pumping more air into the engine than normal atmospheric pressure alone.
The superchargers are driven directly from the crank. As such, there is a ratio between the harmonic balancer (Technically called the damper) and the supercharger pulley. This ratio obviously effects how many revolutions the supercharger spins in comparison to the engine (This is very important).

So assuming a 1:2 ratio, every 1rpm of the engine will cause the supercharger to spin twice. This means, if your using a HTV1900, that every 1 turn of the engine will cause the supercharger to spin twice and pump out 3800cc of air (1900cc * 2).

(Can someone please confirm the next statement?)
As each cylinder only fires once per 720 degrees, the amount of air consumed per 1 revolution is half the rated capacity. EG, a 6L v8 will only suck in 3L of air per 1 revolution. So for an engine to use its rated capacity of air, it must spin twice. So with relation to our above example, the supercharger will spin (1:2)*2 everytime the engine consumes its rated volume.

EG, with the above example the HTV1900 with a 1:2 ratio will pump in 1900cc * 2 * 2 = 7600cc for every engine cycle. Now if this was fitted on a 5.7L V8, you can see we are pumping in 7.6L of air compared to 5.7L in a Naturally Aspirated (NA) setup. This creates a positive boost pressure meaning more power.
Hopefully that makes sense so far…

So having said all of that, to make more power we want to pump more air into the engine. To do this, will need to increase the ratio between the engine rpm and the supercharger rpm. There are 3 items which effect this ratio: The Harmonic Balancer, The Supercharger front pulley and the supercharger rear pulley pair. The standard LS1 Harmonic Balancer has a diameter of 7.519" (190.9826mm). The standard front pulley on the supercharger is 85mm and the rear pair of pulleys have a 1:1 ratio.
So in a standard configuration we can work out the ratios using the formula below.

85mm : 191mm = 1:2.25 (approx.) multiplied by a rear ratio of 1:1 = 1:2.25 overall.
So on a HTV1900 on a 5.7L V8 = 1 engine cycle = 8550cc (2.25 * 1900cc * 2).

Now, if we want to increase the amount of air, we have 3 choices.

Option 1 = Decrease the size of the supercharger front pulley.

Using a 80mm front pulley
80mm : 191mm = 1:2.38
1 engine cycle = 9072cc (2.38 * 1900cc * 2)

Using a 75mm front pulley
75mm : 191mm = 1:2.54
1 engine cycle = 9677cc (2.54 * 1900cc * 2).


This method is the easiest and cheapest way to increase the ratio and pump more air. There is one downside, there is less belt contact with a smaller pulley and you are more likely to get belt slip. This brings us to

Option 2 = Increase the size of the harmonic balancer. Typically you can fit a 5% or 10% larger balancer. The 10% larger balancer isn’t actually 10%, but rather 6.519% larger. Either way, it has a diameter of 204.3mm. Ill use this for the following examples…

85mm : 204.3mm = 1:2.40
1 engine cycle = 9120cc (2.40 * 1900cc *2)

80mm : 204.3mm = 2.55
1 engine cycle = 9690cc (2.55 * 1900cc *2)

75mm : 204.3mm = 2.72
1 engine cycle = 10336cc (2.72 * 1900cc * 2).

Option 3 = Harrop offer a Gilmer rear drive option with 1:1.03 or 1:1.14 ratios. This can be used in conjunction with either/both a front pulley and harmonic balancer upgrade. So ideally you could use the following setup…

85mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 ratio = 2.73
1 engine cycle = 10374cc (2.73 * 1900cc * 2).

80mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 ratio = 2.90
1 engine cycle = 11020cc (2.90 * 1900cc * 2).

As you can see, these options mean a larger front pulley (The larger the front pulley, the more surface area between the belt and pulley which gives more grip, more grip means less chance of belt slip). While this option is best, its of course the most expensive option as well.
Another factor to take into account, these superchargers tend to be efficient up until around 18,000rpm. Much beyond this, they start to lose efficiency pretty rapidly. So lets take the highest ratio you can drive them at…

75mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 = 3.10.
1 engine cycle = 11780 (3.10 * 1900cc * 2).

If you bolt these to an engine and spin it to 7200rpm, your effectively driving the charger at 22,320rpm (7200rpm * 3.1 ratio = 22,320rpm). At this stage you’ll mostly be producing heat and adding a heap of drag to the engine. So when doing calculations, remember there is only so much these chargers can do. That’s why you might consider a HTV2300, as using the same ratio combo above…

75mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 = 3.10.
1 engine cycle = 14,260 (3.10 * 2300cc * 2).

Now I think I’ve worked out a rough calculation to work out boost levels on any given engine…

Boost Level = ((Supercharger Output / Engine Capacity) – 1) * 14.7psi
So assuming you have a 5.7L V8 with a HTV1900 with a 80mm front drive, standard 1:1 rear drive and a 10% overdriven Balancer…

80mm : 204.3mm = 2.55
1 engine cycle = 9690cc (2.55 * 1900cc *2)

Boost Level = (9690/5700) – 1 * 14.7psi
Boost Level = (1.7-1) * 14.7psi
Boost Level = .7 * 14.7
Boost Level = ~10psi.

Now in the real world these figures to vary slightly. The biggest reason i can attribute this to is that as you compress the air it heats up (considerably), once the intercooler lowers the temperature of the air it compresses slightly which results in less air volume but at a higher density (Which is good, and why we intercool the intake charge in the first place).

I can use my personal setup as an example... (7L V8 with HTV2300)

80mm : 204.3mm * 1:1.14 = 2.91 final ratio.
1 engine cycle = 13,391cc (2.91 * 2300cc *2)

Boost Level = (13,391/7000) – 1 * 14.7psi
Boost Level = (1.913-1) * 14.7psi
Boost Level = .913 * 14.7
Boost Level = ~13.4psi.

In the real world I'm getting around 11psi. As i said, you lose a bit due to the intercooler effect, cam duration/overlap, compression ratios etc. The maths is only really to give you an understanding of whats happening, not a fixed perfect "rule".
So hopefully all that makes sense. The next thing to take into account is belt slip. I have images showing the difference between the standard and rewrap setup. As you can see, you get ~45 degrees more belt wrap with the rewrap kit.

Option 4 = The next option to consider is whether to run a 6pk or 8pk belt. Obviously going a wider belt adds cost as you need to change the harmonic balancer, alternator, power steering and idler pulleys to support the wider belt. However it does offer considerably more grip and less chance of belt slip.

Finally, i am not an expert and this is just my understanding on the matter. It may not be 100% accurate so please do your own research. If anything, hopefully this promotes some discussion which i can also learn from.

Cheers, Errol.

Standard
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/WithoutIdler_zps0850813f.jpg

Rewrap
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/WithIdler_zps86874f00.jpg

[offshore]

double post

[offshore]

Afco heat exchanger for a 03-04 cobra. (http://www.uprproducts.com/afco-mustang-cobra-heat-exchanger-03.html).

Dimensions are approx 780mm x 140mm x 70mm.

It literally arrived this morning, so will be fitting up to the car on the weekend.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/Cooler1_zpsc069c193.jpg

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/Cooler2_zps28aa4879.jpg

When i was searching i came across this thread...
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398856

Where someone has used a cobra heat exchanger with a vz monaro bar (which is what ill be using). Hopefully it should have a big impact on intake temperatures. Unfortunately i wont be able to give a perfect comparison as ill be moving the location and setup of the coolers and changing cams (for more power). I originally had the heat exchanger behind the engine oil cooler, now im going to mount it at the very front. Plus changing from the VX SS bar to VZ Monaro bar will help cooling a lot (i hope). The opening of the VZ monaro bar is nearly 250% larger than the VX SS.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/VZmonarocooler_zpsfd381ca8.jpg

EDIT - Oh and im very seriously considering changing the bottle, primarily cause it looks bloody ugly with the default output pipe location and secondly cause a larger bottle will keep temperatures lower in short power bursts.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/UglyHarropbottle_zpsc2a2cd5c.jpg


Thats the sort of clean look im going for as well with FDFI2300 and chev valve covers in May. The harrop OTR intake has just become available as.

[Crazykent]

Bear with me, this could a slightly long but hopefully informative post.
So getting back to very basics, the harrop superchargers are rated at a certain volumetric size which means the amount of air they pump per revolution. The HTV1900 will flow 1900cc per rpm, while the HTV2300 will flow 2300cc per rpm. In essence, the superchargers create boost by pumping more air into the engine than normal atmospheric pressure alone.
The superchargers are driven directly from the crank. As such, there is a ratio between the harmonic balancer (Technically called the damper) and the supercharger pulley. This ratio obviously effects how many revolutions the supercharger spins in comparison to the engine (This is very important).

So assuming a 1:2 ratio, every 1rpm of the engine will cause the supercharger to spin twice. This means, if your using a HTV1900, that every 1 turn of the engine will cause the supercharger to spin twice and pump out 3800cc of air (1900cc * 2).

(Can someone please confirm the next statement?)
As each cylinder only fires once per 720 degrees, the amount of air consumed per 1 revolution is half the rated capacity. EG, a 6L v8 will only suck in 3L of air per 1 revolution. So for an engine to use its rated capacity of air, it must spin twice. So with relation to our above example, the supercharger will spin (1:2)*2 everytime the engine consumes its rated volume.

EG, with the above example the HTV1900 with a 1:2 ratio will pump in 1900cc * 2 * 2 = 7600cc for every engine cycle. Now if this was fitted on a 5.7L V8, you can see we are pumping in 7.6L of air compared to 5.7L in a Naturally Aspirated (NA) setup. This creates a positive boost pressure meaning more power.
Hopefully that makes sense so far…

So having said all of that, to make more power we want to pump more air into the engine. To do this, will need to increase the ratio between the engine rpm and the supercharger rpm. There are 3 items which effect this ratio: The Harmonic Balancer, The Supercharger front pulley and the supercharger rear pulley pair. The standard LS1 Harmonic Balancer has a diameter of 7.519" (190.9826mm). The standard front pulley on the supercharger is 85mm and the rear pair of pulleys have a 1:1 ratio.
So in a standard configuration we can work out the ratios using the formula below.

85mm : 191mm = 1:2.25 (approx.) multiplied by a rear ratio of 1:1 = 1:2.25 overall.
So on a HTV1900 on a 5.7L V8 = 1 engine cycle = 8550cc (2.25 * 1900cc * 2).

Now, if we want to increase the amount of air, we have 3 choices.

Option 1 = Decrease the size of the supercharger front pulley.

Using a 80mm front pulley
80mm : 191mm = 1:2.38
1 engine cycle = 9072cc (2.38 * 1900cc * 2)

Using a 75mm front pulley
75mm : 191mm = 1:2.54
1 engine cycle = 9677cc (2.54 * 1900cc * 2).


This method is the easiest and cheapest way to increase the ratio and pump more air. There is one downside, there is less belt contact with a smaller pulley and you are more likely to get belt slip. This brings us to

Option 2 = Increase the size of the harmonic balancer. Typically you can fit a 5% or 10% larger balancer. The 10% larger balancer isn’t actually 10%, but rather 6.519% larger. Either way, it has a diameter of 204.3mm. Ill use this for the following examples…

85mm : 204.3mm = 1:2.40
1 engine cycle = 9120cc (2.40 * 1900cc *2)

80mm : 204.3mm = 2.55
1 engine cycle = 9690cc (2.55 * 1900cc *2)

75mm : 204.3mm = 2.72
1 engine cycle = 10336cc (2.72 * 1900cc * 2).

Option 3 = Harrop offer a Gilmer rear drive option with 1:1.03 or 1:1.14 ratios. This can be used in conjunction with either/both a front pulley and harmonic balancer upgrade. So ideally you could use the following setup…

85mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 ratio = 2.73
1 engine cycle = 10374cc (2.73 * 1900cc * 2).

80mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 ratio = 2.90
1 engine cycle = 11020cc (2.90 * 1900cc * 2).

As you can see, these options mean a larger front pulley (The larger the front pulley, the more surface area between the belt and pulley which gives more grip, more grip means less chance of belt slip). While this option is best, its of course the most expensive option as well.
Another factor to take into account, these superchargers tend to be efficient up until around 18,000rpm. Much beyond this, they start to lose efficiency pretty rapidly. So lets take the highest ratio you can drive them at…

75mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 = 3.10.
1 engine cycle = 11780 (3.10 * 1900cc * 2).

If you bolt these to an engine and spin it to 7200rpm, your effectively driving the charger at 22,320rpm (7200rpm * 3.1 ratio = 22,320rpm). At this stage you’ll mostly be producing heat and adding a heap of drag to the engine. So when doing calculations, remember there is only so much these chargers can do. That’s why you might consider a HTV2300, as using the same ratio combo above…

75mm : 204.3 * 1:1.14 = 3.10.
1 engine cycle = 14,260 (3.10 * 2300cc * 2).

Now I think I’ve worked out a rough calculation to work out boost levels on any given engine…

Boost Level = ((Supercharger Output / Engine Capacity) – 1) * 14.7psi
So assuming you have a 5.7L V8 with a HTV1900 with a 80mm front drive, standard 1:1 rear drive and a 10% overdriven Balancer…

80mm : 204.3mm = 2.55
1 engine cycle = 9690cc (2.55 * 1900cc *2)

Boost Level = (9690/5700) – 1 * 14.7psi
Boost Level = (1.7-1) * 14.7psi
Boost Level = .7 * 14.7
Boost Level = ~10psi.

Now in the real world these figures to vary slightly. The biggest reason i can attribute this to is that as you compress the air it heats up (considerably), once the intercooler lowers the temperature of the air it compresses slightly which results in less air volume but at a higher density (Which is good, and why we intercool the intake charge in the first place).

I can use my personal setup as an example... (7L V8 with HTV2300)

80mm : 204.3mm * 1:1.14 = 2.91 final ratio.
1 engine cycle = 13,391cc (2.91 * 2300cc *2)

Boost Level = (13,391/7000) – 1 * 14.7psi
Boost Level = (1.913-1) * 14.7psi
Boost Level = .913 * 14.7
Boost Level = ~13.4psi.

In the real world I'm getting around 11psi. As i said, you lose a bit due to the intercooler effect, cam duration/overlap, compression ratios etc. The maths is only really to give you an understanding of whats happening, not a fixed perfect "rule".
So hopefully all that makes sense. The next thing to take into account is belt slip. I have images showing the difference between the standard and rewrap setup. As you can see, you get ~45 degrees more belt wrap with the rewrap kit.

Option 4 = The next option to consider is whether to run a 6pk or 8pk belt. Obviously going a wider belt adds cost as you need to change the harmonic balancer, alternator, power steering and idler pulleys to support the wider belt. However it does offer considerably more grip and less chance of belt slip.

Finally, i am not an expert and this is just my understanding on the matter. It may not be 100% accurate so please do your own research. If anything, hopefully this promotes some discussion which i can also learn from.

Cheers, Errol.

Standard
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/WithoutIdler_zps0850813f.jpg

Rewrap
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/feistl/WithIdler_zps86874f00.jpg

Hey mate i really appreciate the effort you've put into this i've read it couple times and am going to keep reading it until a grip on everything.

I couldn't of asked for better information than that! i will be responding asap. Thanks again.

[IJ.]

Pic #2 is pretty much how I did mine a few years back and 0 slip using a 6Pk Gatorback belt, just machined up an Idler bracket that bolts to the Waterpump mount!

3145

[offshore]

Any one got a picture of how the wrap looks with the VF with the electric power steering.

[Crazykent]

Ok yes i see how the gilmer drive kit and re-wrap kit work.

And how the 2300 'might' be a better option. But i haven't been able to find any dyno runs on youtube or other to see what kind of power gain
and or heat reduction this might be causing on a 5.7 and im not willing to experiment either.

is a harmonic balancer upgrade a pretty standard thing to do with a supercharger? would doing that warrant the use of a 2300 of a 1900 moreso
to not see a drop in power once the s/c is taken to its limit?

I dunno, personally im more inclined to go with the grain when it comes to things like this where you cant just go "i dont like this one as much as
i thought i would give me the 2300 to try". And as others have said the 1900 will have be able to compress air farther than the 2300 at low rpms
which in real life terms is what i would want as far as 'low down' power, hence the reason im going the super charger route, for instantaneous bottom end
linear (usable) power.

Hmm, talking about wider belts is almost sending me a bit loopy by that stage now, (i appreciate you bringing up the point) but it makes me question
har for do i want to go. Although if i had surplus money to blow i wouldn't be saying this. I should have enough money for the re-wrap kit, gilmer drive kit,
upgraded pulley and balancer but yeh, i dunno, if i've got the money i might just look the other way an say 'do it' lol.

I wish i could comment farther Errol but you have covered everything so informatively it would just be ignorant of me to re-iterate things you've already
spelt-out. However my maths isn't great i am able to see correlations to what your inferring.

[IJ.]

Ok yes i see how the gilmer drive kit and re-wrap kit work.

And how the 2300 'might' be a better option. But i haven't been able to find any dyno runs on youtube or other to see what kind of power gain
and or heat reduction this might be causing on a 5.7 and im not willing to experiment either.

is a harmonic balancer upgrade a pretty standard thing to do with a supercharger? would doing that warrant the use of a 2300 of a 1900 moreso
to not see a drop in power once the s/c is taken to its limit?

I dunno, personally im more inclined to go with the grain when it comes to things like this where you cant just go "i dont like this one as much as
i thought i would give me the 2300 to try". And as others have said the 1900 will have be able to compress air farther than the 2300 at low rpms
which in real life terms is what i would want as far as 'low down' power, hence the reason im going the super charger route, for instantaneous bottom end
linear (usable) power.

Hmm, talking about wider belts is almost sending me a bit loopy by that stage now, (i appreciate you bringing up the point) but it makes me question
har for do i want to go. Although if i had surplus money to blow i wouldn't be saying this. I should have enough money for the re-wrap kit, gilmer drive kit,
upgraded pulley and balancer but yeh, i dunno, if i've got the money i might just look the other way an say 'do it' lol.

I wish i could comment farther Errol but you have covered everything so informatively it would just be ignorant of me to re-iterate things you've already
spelt-out. However my maths isn't great i am able to see correlations to what your inferring.

Not really sure what you mean by the bold section??

These Blowers are positive displacement meaning for each Revolution they out put xxxx amount of air, all things being equal ratios and engine the 2300 will output 400cc more air than the 1900 per revolution.

[feistl]

haha IJ you beat me too it. The rest of the post made sense, but i dont get those comments either.

The HTV2300 is only $600 more expensive than the HTV1900 correct?

In that case, i would almost say its more economical to go with a HTV2300 and a rewrap kit, than a HTV1900, rewrap kit, gilmer kit and harmonic balancer.

As the 2300 is bigger, you dont need to spin it as fast to make boost which means less chance of belt slip, and less need for a gilmer kit.

Plus, the HTV2300 can go a lot further IF you choose too down the track.

I cant really see any reason to choose the 1900?

EDIT - Yeah honestly i think get the 2300, rewrap kit and appropriate sized pulley now. Its the simplest and "cheapest" option, and will support much more power down the track IF you decide you need more power. There shouldn't be any disadvantages in terms of drive ability apart from POSSIBLY being a tiny (unnoticeable) amount less efficient at low boost (Even then I'm not 100% sure).

[Crazykent]

haha IJ you beat me too it. The rest of the post made sense, but i dont get those comments either.

The HTV2300 is only $600 more expensive than the HTV1900 correct?

In that case, i would almost say its more economical to go with a HTV2300 and a rewrap kit, than a HTV1900, rewrap kit, gilmer kit and harmonic balancer.

As the 2300 is bigger, you dont need to spin it as fast to make boost which means less chance of belt slip, and less need for a gilmer kit.

Plus, the HTV2300 can go a lot further IF you choose too down the track.

I cant really see any reason to choose the 1900?

EDIT - Yeah honestly i think get the 2300, rewrap kit and appropriate sized pulley now. Its the simplest and "cheapest" option, and will support much more power down the track IF you decide you need more power. There shouldn't be any disadvantages in terms of drive ability apart from POSSIBLY being a tiny (unnoticeable) amount less efficient at low boost (Even then I'm not 100% sure).

Ok forget what i said. I was trying to remember a post that i read on here without reading it and i tried to re-write it in terms that you used in your writeup
i should of just said it simply instead of trying to use terms that may not of related to how it 'actually' works, lol.

this is the post http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?150602-Difference-in-superchargers&p=1920298#post1920298

That post was the main reason i did not want the 2300. as i want instant power.

The 2300 is 900 dollars more.

And i just can't see myself ever stroking my engine especially with how much power it will have already with what im doing (s/c and cam)
without going through tyres and breaking parts already with that setup as someone in an earlier post elaborated on.

Also i've already spoken to autotechnique an they can't see why i would need a 2300 either.

And yeh ill just pay the money for the gilmer drive kit an wider belt kit. Once its done its done an ill be happy even though ill be poor as a church mouse lol.

[feistl]

I think that post is incorrect.

By very nature, the supercharger pumps an amount of air per revolution, this is fixed. The engine capacity is also fixed. So with a roots type supercharger the amount of air per cycle is fixed, so boost level will remain the same regardless of RPM.

I would either go with a 1900 and rewrap, or a 2300 and rewrap. I wouldnt go a 1900 and rewrap, gilmer and balancer (As you effectively spending money to spin the charger faster to pump more air, in term making the same boost a bigger charger would make with no mods).

Cheers

[Crazykent]

I think that post is incorrect.

By very nature, the supercharger pumps an amount of air per revolution, this is fixed. The engine capacity is also fixed. So with a roots type supercharger the amount of air per cycle is fixed, so boost level will remain the same regardless of RPM.

I would either go with a 1900 and rewrap, or a 2300 and rewrap. I wouldnt go a 1900 and rewrap, gilmer and balancer (As you effectively spending money to spin the charger faster to pump more air, in term making the same boost a bigger charger would make with no mods).

Cheers

But that guy actually had one on a LS3, i believe? i dont think thats just heresay

Whats your thoughts on why every instance of a charged 5.7 i've come accross is running the 1900? did they pick the wrong one?
Just seems there are more real life examples than examples of people just calculating what would be better. (just trying to get to the bottom of this)

Or are you referring to me wanting to upgrade the pulley and add a gilmer drive kit thereby making the 2300 a better choice for me?

[white lie]

I don't regret going with the 'baby blower' at all. I have never at any stage thought I'd be making more power with the 2300. I'm still not even close to the limit of the 1900, which IMO would be running 10's in the average car, putting out around 600-650rwhp. How fast do you want to go? Engine reliability becomes an issue well before the size of the blower does.

[feistl]

My mistake, sorry i had you confused with offshore and this thread...http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?166830-Whipple-2-9

I thought you were looking at going a bigger motor down the track.

The 1900 will be fine in that case

[Crazykent]

I don't regret going with the 'baby blower' at all. I have never at any stage thought I'd be making more power with the 2300. I'm still not even close to the limit of the 1900, which IMO would be running 10's in the average car, putting out around 600-650rwhp. How fast do you want to go? Engine reliability becomes an issue well before the size of the blower does.

Well yeah 1900 it is. Well to answer that properly i would need to go in something thats faster than my car which just has bolt ons.
Its hard to give a certain figure but 350 seems to be the magic number.

[Crazykent]

My mistake, sorry i had you confused with offshore and this thread...http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?166830-Whipple-2-9

I thought you were looking at going a bigger motor down the track.

The 1900 will be fine in that case

Oh ok sweet. My only problem now i finding a way to get an exhaust relatively cheap, autotechnique wanna put a full diffilipo zorst on
but they're 3500 a big chunk of the total cost. :-(

[white lie]

What's on there now?

[Crazykent]

What's on there now?

tri y-exactors (dont know size)

3.5 inch sureflo single

[white lie]

Just put bigger headers on, the catback will be ok till you can afford to change it down the track

[v8fazz]

Mine made just over 400kw atw with the Sureflo 3.5" single, 2.5" cat pipes and 4" ballistic cats. Sure I could make more with the larger 3" cat pipes and larger 4.5" or 5" cats but I dont need to! :)

You mentioned wider belts. Are you referring to the rear belt of the front? The rear gilmer upgrade does not give you a wider belt at the rear. It will give you a toothed belt (actually 2 x 25mm toothed belts) instead of the standard 50mm belt that comes with it, and it also gives you a small amount of overdrive depending on what ratio you choose, as well as a nice whistling sound! And being toothed it will eliminate the chance of any belt slip at the rear so one less thing to worry about.

If you were referring to the front belt, FYI I have the re-wrap kit with after market STANDARD DIAMETER balancer (was fitted before blower) and still running the 6pk belt with no problems at 10psi. Im sure without the re-wrap kit I would have slippage but the re-wrap does make a big difference so you might not need to upgrade to the wider 8pk belt which necessitates replacing other pulleys to suit as well. In some cases like Errol's the 8pk is definitely a good idea but on an LS1 with std bottom end that wont see over 10psi its not really needed with the re-wrap kit.

[***VX*R8***]

Mine made just over 400kw atw with the Sureflo 3.5" single, 2.5" cat pipes and 4" ballistic cats. Sure I could make more with the larger 3" cat pipes and larger 4.5" or 5" cats but I dont need to! :)


Sorry if you've already stated but what cam are you using and is it very "driver friendly"?

[v8fazz]

I cant tell you the exact specs as I dont know but its a Jeremy Beall special from his time at HDTCQ. It was his "street torq" cam specifically designed for low and mid range torque. This is a quote from my emails with him before I had the cam and tune done which was 12 months before the blower went on-

"I have a camshaft in mind that I think would really suit your application. Its one Ive designed: 21x 23x @ 114LSA

It will provide a subtle lope at idle and you will be able to slip the clutch out and drive away. It was designed for alot of low down and mid range torque. It will make power until about 6600rpms and perfectly suited to any form of forced induction in the future."

I can honestly say it has perfect street manners and is very driver friendly and is everything Jez said it would be and more. I would recommend it or something similar to anyone. Made 275kw and 723nm before the blower. Check page 2 of this thread for the graph. The before figures are after the cam and tune and the after figures are after the blower install 12 months later.

[offshore]

I cant tell you the exact specs as I dont know but its a Jeremy Beall special from his time at HDTCQ. It was his "street torq" cam specifically designed for low and mid range torque. This is a quote from my emails with him before I had the cam and tune done which was 12 months before the blower went on-

"I have a camshaft in mind that I think would really suit your application. Its one Ive designed: 21x 23x @ 114LSA

It will provide a subtle lope at idle and you will be able to slip the clutch out and drive away. It was designed for alot of low down and mid range torque. It will make power until about 6600rpms and perfectly suited to any form of forced induction in the future."

I can honestly say it has perfect street manners and is very driver friendly and is everything Jez said it would be and more. I would recommend it or something similar to anyone. Made 275kw and 723nm before the blower. Check page 2 of this thread for the graph. The before figures are after the cam and tune and the after figures are after the blower install 12 months later.


That torque curve is really good must have bloody good roll on acceleration.

[***VX*R8***]

I cant tell you the exact specs as I dont know but its a Jeremy Beall special from his time at HDTCQ. It was his "street torq" cam specifically designed for low and mid range torque. This is a quote from my emails with him before I had the cam and tune done which was 12 months before the blower went on-

"I have a camshaft in mind that I think would really suit your application. Its one Ive designed: 21x 23x @ 114LSA

It will provide a subtle lope at idle and you will be able to slip the clutch out and drive away. It was designed for alot of low down and mid range torque. It will make power until about 6600rpms and perfectly suited to any form of forced induction in the future."

I can honestly say it has perfect street manners and is very driver friendly and is everything Jez said it would be and more. I would recommend it or something similar to anyone. Made 275kw and 723nm before the blower. Check page 2 of this thread for the graph. The before figures are after the cam and tune and the after figures are after the blower install 12 months later.

That's an awesome result. I've got a VCM-15 (216˚ 224˚ .590" .580" 115˚) but just ordered a VCM-6 to replace it (233˚ 233˚ .597" .596" 114˚). I would've stuck with the smaller VCM-15 if I didn't plan to run the car NA for a while before any FI.

[v8fazz]

Thanks mate, Im pretty happy with it :)

Found an old thread with pics of the Gilmer rear drive if the OP is interested-

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?163775-HTV1900-Rear-Gilmer-Drive-Pics

[whitels1ss]

Thanks mate, Im pretty happy with it :)

Found an old thread with pics of the Gilmer rear drive if the OP is interested-

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?163775-HTV1900-Rear-Gilmer-Drive-Pics

I have just copied these two pics & stuck them on this post
3190
3191

[Crazykent]

Hello all.

Its been a journey from the start to get to where i am now but its been a fun one. Now im getting closer to the next stage im wondering what i should do next.

I've got:

VZ SS 5.7
3.7s
twin 2.5/1 7/8 headers
OTR
3200 stall
cam package with VCM 6

Now the idea all a long was to supercharge but this year i didn't have the money so i went SC friendly cam first.
Now that i've got the cam, a reasonably big one, im unsure what to do next because it seems like its enough power
for how i like to enjoy my car, but i want more, just not 12-14000 dollars worth more (built auto included) when
the way it is now is almost enough.

Was hoping someone could put themselves in my position theoretically and tell me what they would do, whether it be
just to leave it or heads or start with a whole new engine, could be anything. Im just trying to weigh up cost vs enjoyment.

[Angeldust]

LS3 swap? or even LS2 if can get one cheap enough.

[whitels1ss]

LS3 swap? or even LS2 if can get one cheap enough.

That won't give you anywhere near the power as a decent set up supercharger on an LS1 mate

& by the time you did everything required for a conversion I can't see it being very much cheaper.

[white lie]

I wouldn't discard the option though.
Most cammed LS3 conversions are running pretty similar times to my blown combo. Some quicker but they are also lighter.

Cost can work out the same but it does also give you the option later on if/when you get bored, you can still strap a blower to the LS3 or stroke it to 400+ cubes.... Or both!
I was 'offered' the conversion as an alternative when I put my blower on and went the blower route because I wanted to keep my stock engine in and wanted boost. Part of me does regret not doing the conversion instead and adding a blower later on (ie now)

[Crazykent]

I wouldn't discard the option though.
Most cammed LS3 conversions are running pretty similar times to my blown combo. Some quicker but they are also lighter.

Cost can work out the same but it does also give you the option later on if/when you get bored, you can still strap a blower to the LS3 or stroke it to 400+ cubes.... Or both!
I was 'offered' the conversion as an alternative when I put my blower on and went the blower route because I wanted to keep my stock engine in and wanted boost. Part of me does regret not doing the conversion instead and adding a blower later on (ie now)

Well i think whats important to me i cost vs gain so i think the solution is just to get a 2nd hand blower and possibly leave the auto to get built
when it brakes, i know how i drive and i know i dont punish anything i just enjoy getting it moving quick thats all. thanks mate

[Crazykent]

hmmm life is so boring when your waiting to be able to afford car parts

i even took my hardlid and spare wheel off just go faster

[macca_779]

hmmm life is so boring when your waiting to be able to afford car parts

i even took my hardlid and spare wheel off just go faster

I bought a bike to go fast

[Crazykent]

I bought a bike to go fast

cant ride a road bike buddy my hip is fused

i ride motocross though, 14' crf250

[csv rulz]

Yeah I have a Crf250x as my toy. although I am working hard on the wife to get a road bikw aswell.