Holden targets number one by 2020

[Goggles]

this will be interesting to see:
http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/holden-targets-number-one-by-2020-20140403-361x4.html

to me it seems that some people deliberately choose not to buy a Holden because they don't rate the cars, or think it is a bogan brand.

that would be very hard to overcome.

[whitels1ss]

Pity that they did not target number 1 for 2014 :hide:

[IJ.]

Can't see it happening even if they offered free "Happy endings" with each sale...

[Micks]

Going by the roll out of the VF it looks likes business as usual to me!!:rolleyes:

[whitels1ss]

They won't have a real commodore to sell by then so plenty of the one eyed Holden supporters will have moved on.

[Smitty]

Can't see it happening even if they offered free "Happy endings" with each sale...

I thought it was an April Fools joke.. then saw the date :)

[Hi Octane]

By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty.

[C4B]

Until they clear out the old school personnel who think Holden is Australia's version of the Windsors, they're never going to get anywhere. Post Commodore era needs 21st century thinking..

[Smitty]

By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty.

John Howard: No.. No, there's no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy.
Journalist: Never ever?
John Howard: Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election. ;)

sorry.. still off topic there

back on topic....

I was talking to 2 Holden engineers at our car club meeting this month (they shall remain nameless of course)
who when asked... how engineering was going in respect of current and future models, just shook their heads.
In other words it is not happening


and Holden think they can climb back up the sales charts.... ? pmsl

[IJ.]

Have a Mate that's an Engineer there, he's looking to move on..

[C4B]

Didn't the HSV CEO do a runner recently???

[Toddler78]

Holden have posted their best sales figures in years just recently.


Keep in mind the general punter that wants the world and is only prepared to pay for the map. they will make the cars in china, give them all their bells and whistles and sell them for 19995. just like great wall do.

[IJ.]

Best of the Turds is still a Turd... ;)

[VNV8]

Not going to happen, sorry. I wish it could, but no. And they'll lose a big portion of their customers in 2017 too.

[whitels1ss]

I think this a classic case of "closing the stable door after the horse has bolted" :lol:

[IJ.]

I think this a classic case of "closing the stable door after the horse has bolted" :lol:
Not just bolted but been made into Glue to stick down the nice "looking" interior of the VF to give it some "perceived quality" ;)

[Smitty]

Holden have posted their best sales figures in years just recently.
.................

they would want to.... otherwise VF would go down like a cow pat!

I always thought Holden waited too long for bringing out a VE replacement... in VF ( I am ignoring VEII as it really did not have much new)
and that fact caused sales to tumble. VE was seen as stale, too old especially by 2013 (when compared with the imports)

[Davothegreat]

I always thought Holden waited too long for bringing out a VE replacement... in VF ( I am ignoring VEII as it really did not have much new)
and that fact caused sales to tumble. VE was seen as stale, too old especially by 2013 (when compared with the imports)

The problem is the VE was stale compared with the imports when it was released. Most Euro cars run 7 year lifecycles just like the VE did yet the outgoing Euro models never seem old. Merc is bringing out a new C class this year, the current one still looks schmick. I'm pretty sure I read the VE was designed to compete with the E39 BMW 5 series platform despite the fact that the E39 platform was superseded a whole 3 years prior to VE's release.

[C4B]

Part of the problem is Holden has had two very distinct customer bases.... Those that buy Commodores and those that buy everything else.

Most people on here wouldn't consider buying anything Holden other than a Commodore, so once it finishes, an entire portion of their customer base will up and go elsewhere....

[Jag530G]

If Holden want to be number one it will depend on four vehicles: Cruze, Trax, Captiva and Colorado. The only way I could see them beating the equivalent Toyotas would be on price and value. Holden might gain market share but they'd burn margin in the short term. In particular the Hilux and Corolla have massive reputations and repeat sales so Holden would have to offer big discounts if they want the Cruze/Astra (rumoured to be returning to Holden dealerships) to outsell the Corolla and the Colorado to outsell the Hilux/Prado.

Very tough ask but do-able if they are prepared to burn margin in the short term and the next gen Cruze/Astra, Colorado and Captiva are all a big step up.

Cheers, Matthew

[Smitty]

If Holden want to be number one it will depend on four vehicles: Cruze, Trax, Captiva and Colorado. The only way I could see them beating the equivalent Toyotas would be on price and value. Holden might gain market share but they'd burn margin in the short term. In particular the Hilux and Corolla have massive reputations and repeat sales so Holden would have to offer big discounts if they want the Cruze/Astra (rumoured to be returning to Holden dealerships) to outsell the Corolla and the Colorado to outsell the Hilux/Prado.

Very tough ask but do-able if they are prepared to burn margin in the short term and the next gen Cruze/Astra, Colorado and Captiva are all a big step up.

Cheers, Matthew

imho... Colorado is too big and only competes with the Ford ranger. Prado (especially) and HilLux look smaller so the Colorado only appeals to those wanting BIG!
Holden lost all their smaller (read Rodeo) LCV customers when the Colorado came out ( which they had no choice when Isuzu intervened with supply)

Cruze is good value for money .. but the others Captiva Trax Malibu don't get within 100 yards of the Mazda and Toyota competition. Interiors are shoddy
build quality is well.... not good and driving one is a lousy experience ( as a fleet manager I do get the chance to drive these a few times annually... along with the competition)

[redvxr8clubby]

An article in last Saturdays paper (Carsguide) re Holden was basically when the Commodore is gone and also they noted some of the Cruze models are pretty good (I presume SRI/ SRIV), that the model range is probably the poorest of any manufacturer. The article suggested that this isn't simply because the cars are Korean, but because they have the poorest of the Korean cars. All sounded pretty much on the money to me.

[bigfoot]

After thinking about this guy's comments I think the whole idea that
he can bring Holden back to the top with these imports is an insult to Australian manufacturing.

[Woodchukka]

Best of the Turds is still a Turd... ;)

I beg to differ.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1536654_729225840444397_299947651_n.jpg

[Wonky]

That's like saying "Melbourne Demons will be AFL premiers in 2016". Nice target but ain't never gonna happen!!

[ti0350]

Gm HQ has never understood the Australian market and they never will, Holden was doing fine being left up to their our devices until GM started sticking their nose in.
Holden's designers and engineers have been able to do things to cars made here for very little money and GM could never understand how they did it.
They also have never been able to understand how Holden can stay financial on the numbers they sell, because they think on a big scale like the U.S. and not on the numbers of our market.
Holden was making money on very little sales compared to states and the yanks couldn't work out why, Before the VE came out Holden was selling sedans, wagons, ute's, 1 tonners, crewmans, adventra's, monaro's all pretty much made off the same platform. Now while they weren't selling massive numbers of some of those models the numbers all add up to give Holden volume to stay viable.
When GM decided to cancel the AWD VE and various other models for the VE then suddenly the models that were helping Holden stay financial are gone, even though sales on large cars have been dropping there's a big chance that had Holden been allowed to continue with the planned VE models even sales were dropping the extra models would still have given Holden the extra sales volume it needed.
How many current Adventra owners would have upgraded to VE version if it was made specially if it was available in V6, V8 and I've heard at one stage looking at adding a diesel to that as well.

[BLACKVE]

If Holden want to be number one it will depend on four vehicles: Cruze, Trax, Captiva and Colorado. The only way I could see them beating the equivalent Toyotas would be on price and value. Holden might gain market share but they'd burn margin in the short term. In particular the Hilux and Corolla have massive reputations and repeat sales so Holden would have to offer big discounts if they want the Cruze/Astra (rumoured to be returning to Holden dealerships) to outsell the Corolla and the Colorado to outsell the Hilux/Prado.

Very tough ask but do-able if they are prepared to burn margin in the short term and the next gen Cruze/Astra, Colorado and Captiva are all a big step up.

Cheers, Matthew

Agree

Look at ford, the fiesta, focus and mondeo all get good reviews about steering and handling etc but don't sell. advertising and $19990 driveaway does.

Every car I've had has been holden but would I buy a cruze, no I would probably end up in a corolla.

Holden would need a great small car and suv, the crap cruze and captivas won't do it

[v8dude78]

The one thing i could never understand is why Holden never offered a diesel ????
BMW do as do Mercedes but still have their hero cars M cars & AMG.

As someone mentioned earlier if they had continued with the one tonner, adventura etc and offered a diesel power plant Holden would still be making cars here in the future.
People would of even bought a commodore with a diesel.
But as said GM never understood what we wanted in our cars or our taste's.

[planetdavo]

Until they clear out the old school personnel who think Holden is Australia's version of the Windsors, they're never going to get anywhere. Post Commodore era needs 21st century thinking..

Would have thought MyLink looked after the "21st century thinking" pretty well...:stick:
*
Who knows what the future holds. Go back to circa 2000 and Mazda was almost a basket case in this country- with a dull lineup and little buyer interest. Look at them just a few years later...

[whitels1ss]

Go back to circa 2000 and Mazda was almost a basket case in this country- with a dull lineup and little buyer interest. Look at them just a few years later...

Mazda make a very good motor car David ;)

[planetdavo]

The one thing i could never understand is why Holden never offered a diesel ????
BMW do as do Mercedes but still have their hero cars M cars & AMG.

As someone mentioned earlier if they had continued with the one tonner, adventura etc and offered a diesel power plant Holden would still be making cars here in the future.
People would of even bought a commodore with a diesel.
But as said GM never understood what we wanted in our cars or our taste's.

It's not about "tastes". It's about ENOUGH tastes actually getting sales.
Without decent exports of a diesel Commodore to Europe, there was NEVER going to be enough sales volume to ever support the introduction of a unique diesel driveline.
LPG was the alternate fuel option because it used an existing petrol engine option running on a different fuel, so is a relatively economical product to develop.

[planetdavo]

Mazda make a very good motor car David ;)

Even if many of the popular ones in the last 10 years needed complimentary earplugs to stop the driver going deaf...:stick:
Mazda have taken over the mantle Honda used to own in this country. The default non-Euro "premium" offering.
Maybe...maybe not, but that's how they are seen by some, and it's certainly an image Mazda would be happy keeping as long as possible!

[C4B]

Would have thought MyLink looked after the "21st century thinking" pretty well...:stick:
*
Who knows what the future holds. Go back to circa 2000 and Mazda was almost a basket case in this country- with a dull lineup and little buyer interest. Look at them just a few years later...

I rest my case......

[whitels1ss]

Even if many of the popular ones in the last 10 years needed complimentary earplugs to stop the driver going deaf...:stick:


I have driven & plenty of them, never noticed any noises.

The lady I am seeing has a 2005 Mazda 3 MP23 with 120,000kms on it, she has never had any problems with the car
we went out in the country on Saturday, I was driving it & I think it is a fantastic car, certainly no undue noises at all.

[planetdavo]

I rest my case......

Of course you are right. I only use the fact that almost every single car on sale these days gets it's "connectivity" levels flogged to death as proof of my case how addicted the world has become on MyLink type stuff...;)
How did the world possibly survive before "connectivity"!!! :lmao: :jerk:

[planetdavo]

I have driven & plenty of them, never noticed any noises.

The lady I am seeing has a 2005 Mazda 3 MP23 with 120,000kms on it, she has never had any problems with the car
we went out in the country on Saturday, I was driving it & I think it is a fantastic car, certainly no undue noises at all.

Turn the Kylie Minogue tunes down fella, and you'll hear the tyre roar on the bitumen...:stick:

[whitels1ss]

Turn the Kylie Minogue tunes down fella, and you'll hear the tyre roar on the bitumen...:stick:

:lmao: Come on David, they are not that bad, have you ever had a really decent drive of one?

Hey, if the worst bagging you can come up with is a little bit of "road noise" for which you say you need to turn the radio off to hear they must be a pretty good car:teach:

[planetdavo]

:lmao: Come on David, they are not that bad, have you ever had a really decent drive of one?

Hey, if the worst bagging you can come up with is a little bit of "road noise" for which you say you need to turn the radio off to hear they must be a pretty good car:teach:

Yes I've driven several 3's and 6's, and travelled in the back seats of some of those for decent trips too, so feel I've had a fair amount of experience with them.
So, the ones the media regularly said were noisy too. Best way to describe it is it's like a booming sort of sound. Once you notice it you can't NOT notice it from then on. Starts becoming noticeable from about 70km/h onwards, rapidly increasing toward 100km/h where you realise just how much more loudly you need to speak to your rear seat passengers so they can understand you clearly compared to many other cars. I suspect it's either a serious lack of rear wheelhouse insulation in the 3's and 6's (before the current new generations were released), or the rear suspension bushes transfer too much vibration though them, which leads to a resonance in the body, but either way, it's quite noticeable.
I do actually get to drive more than just Holden's in my life, which many people can't seem to grasp the concept of on here! :lmao:
I just find it slightly amusing that people come on places like this and regularly bag Holden product for not being as "refined" as imports, yet (a popular import with) really noticeable tyre roar on Australia's common course bitumen roads is excused as somehow not needing this subject to be included as part of a car's "refinement".
Seems double standards might be going on because the import's a "better" brand name, but hey, according to a few, I'm often wrong on here...;)

[C4B]

I've got a MY14 CX5 Akira daily driver and the cabin noise is comparable to anything else I've driven of late. I assume "fella" is talking about every Mazda "except" new ones..... :jerk:




:lmao: Come on David, they are not that bad, have you ever had a really decent drive of one?

Hey, if the worst bagging you can come up with is a little bit of "road noise" for which you say you need to turn the radio off to hear they must be a pretty good car:teach:

The biggest complaint I have is the piss weak headlights..... Bi-Xenon HID's and the high beam is the same as the low beam only about 2 inches higher.

[whitels1ss]

Yes I've driven several 3's and 6's, and travelled in the back seats of some of those for decent trips too, so feel I've had a fair amount of experience with them.
So, the ones the media regularly said were noisy too. Best way to describe it is it's like a booming sort of sound. Once you notice it you can't NOT notice it from then on. Starts becoming noticeable from about 70km/h onwards, rapidly increasing toward 100km/h where you realise just how much more loudly you need to speak to your rear seat passengers so they can understand you clearly compared to many other cars. I suspect it's either a serious lack of rear wheelhouse insulation in the 3's and 6's (before the current new generations were released), or the rear suspension bushes transfer too much vibration though them, which leads to a resonance in the body, but either way, it's quite noticeable.


Well I don't drive from the back seats of cars (or even ride in them) so perhaps if you look at it from a back seat driver's point of view they could perhaps complain?

Perhaps her SP23 sedan has more insulation than the base model,

perhaps the hatchback like most other hatchbacks & wagons are noisier but

from the driver's seat her little 9 year old Mazda is fine.;)

[Peter B - CV8]

Wife has a 2007 Mazda 6 Hatchback. The headlights are deplorable - even with upgraded bulbs they are just too weak. We never noticed any road noise issues until the tyres were half worn- Now there's a booming noise once you get up to 80+kph.
Only other gripe is that they feel/sound a bit flimsy (ie when closing doors etc.). Panel thickness is quite thin - you can leave a dent just by leaning against it (probably like most new cars.. We've had it for approx 6 years & it's given good service. Best thing is that they have a cam chain - instead of a belt. No expensive service for that item:bravo:

[whitels1ss]

Wife has a 2007 Mazda 6 Hatchback. The headlights are deplorable - even with upgraded bulbs they are just too weak. We never noticed any road noise issues until the tyres were half worn- Now there's a booming noise once you get up to 80+kph.
Only other gripe is that they feel/sound a bit flimsy (ie when closing doors etc.). Panel thickness is quite thin - you can leave a dent just by leaning against it (probably like most new cars.. We've had it for approx 6 years & it's given good service. Best thing is that they have a cam chain - instead of a belt. No expensive service for that item:bravo:

As I am sure you know plenty of tyres get noisey when they get half worn.;)
Sounds like you have overall been happy with the car then.

Unlike BLACK346 who bought a Captiva.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?162775-So-I-bought-a-Captiva!-My-thoughts-so-far&p=2111418#post2111418

[C4B]

As I am sure you know plenty of tyres get noisey when they get half worn.;)
Sounds like you have overall been happy with the car then.

Unlike BLACK346 who bought a Captiva.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?162775-So-I-bought-a-Captiva!-My-thoughts-so-far&p=2111418#post2111418

Who cares if it has a couple of minor engine issues if it has all the latest gadgets..... Some other cars can only offer reliability and re-sale value.

[Micks]

Wife has a 2007 Mazda 6 Hatchback. The headlights are deplorable - even with upgraded bulbs they are just too weak. We never noticed any road noise issues until the tyres were half worn- Now there's a booming noise once you get up to 80+kph.
Only other gripe is that they feel/sound a bit flimsy (ie when closing doors etc.). Panel thickness is quite thin - you can leave a dent just by leaning against it (probably like most new cars.. We've had it for approx 6 years & it's given good service. Best thing is that they have a cam chain - instead of a belt. No expensive service for that item:bravo:
Sounds like Maz have dropped their game then! As they use to be one of the best Japs second @ least to Honda!