Fuel System Upgrade for L98 406ci Stroker

[HOLDAN]

My L98 based 406ci na stroker making 540rwhp is currently running stock fuel system. I'm thinking of upgrading because the current system has almost 180,000km on her and I'm worried about leaning her out.

I've been told 60lb injectors would be suitable and I'm looking at a VCM twin pump in tank system. Would I need to upgrade the fuel rails? If so, with what?

Regards, Dan

[offshore]

Cant go wrong with that VCM twin pump setup mate. And you dont need to upgrade fuel rails the stock ones are fine

[HOLDAN]

Thanks Offshore

[BLACKVE]

i got the ASE twin pump

http://www.aseturbo.com/HOLDEN-COMMODORE/VE-COMMODORE/VE-TWIN-INTERNAL-SURGE-TANK/prod_451.html

running 350rwks + on E85 with fast 60Lb injectors all good.

[HOLDAN]

Cool - thanks for that. The ASE pump is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper than the VCM. On VCM's website, they say:
"CNC machined completely from 6061 billet aluminium, fully sealed with o-rings, and anodized for corrosion protection.

You can finally run a return-style fuel system with a boost referenced regulator or high static pressure. This unit reuses the stock fuel bucket (the black plastic part in the photos) and hanger rods so it operates like stock, pulling fuel from both sides of the tank, eliminating the effects of fuel slosh that plague other setups".

Is the ASE similar?

Regards, Dan



i got the ASE twin pump

http://www.aseturbo.com/HOLDEN-COMMODORE/VE-COMMODORE/VE-TWIN-INTERNAL-SURGE-TANK/prod_451.html

running 350rwks + on E85 with fast 60Lb injectors all good.

[offshore]

Ive got the VCM setup which is based on Squash performance in my car with the LSA engine. Its return style suppose to be good for 1200hp. VCM has one in their car with around 1000hp at the moment with no problems at all. Mine is almost ready to be tuned with KPM 1500cc injectors so can give feed back on this next week but shouldnt be any issues. I really havnt heard of any issues at all with most of these systems the only thing is the flex fuel setup on the VF they found a few issues setting it up with twin pumps but its sorted. Mine should be over 500rwkw just how far over is the question as its Mast heads and E85 and higher boost with the blower overdriven higher than the Harrop stage 3. I dont know of any other LSA with Mast heads in Aussie but I might be wrong!

[HOLDAN]

What is Squash performance?

How many lbs are those KPM injectors?

Keen to hear how it goes


Ive got the VCM setup which is based on Squash performance in my car with the LSA engine. Its return style suppose to be good for 1200hp. VCM has one in their car with around 1000hp at the moment with no problems at all. Mine is almost ready to be tuned with KPM 1500cc injectors so can give feed back on this next week but shouldnt be any issues. I really havnt heard of any issues at all with most of these systems the only thing is the flex fuel setup on the VF they found a few issues setting it up with twin pumps but its sorted. Mine should be over 500rwkw just how far over is the question as its Mast heads and E85 and higher boost with the blower overdriven higher than the Harrop stage 3. I dont know of any other LSA with Mast heads in Aussie but I might be wrong!

[offshore]

Squash Performance have a search for it they use DW or Walbro pumps. VCM use there systems there used in the US on a lot of cars fairly new though over the last few years. 1500cc is around 150lbs its for E85 thats why Im going that big otherwise on 98 850cc or 1000cc would be ok for mine

[HOLDAN]

OK Thanks for that.


Squash Performance have a search for it they use DW or Walbro pumps. VCM use there systems there used in the US on a lot of cars fairly new though over the last few years. 1500cc is around 150lbs its for E85 thats why Im going that big otherwise on 98 850cc or 1000cc would be ok for mine

[ls2 cruiser]

Dan the ford motorsport 60lb injectors I was talking about are easily big enough for what you want . They are actually 63 lb at 3 bar and 72.9 lb at 4 bar or 58psi. I am using them with a blown 404 and 11psi boost and at WOT they are 85% . With NA they will be less than 85% probably 70% duty cycle. Pumps are your choice. You have to get the 60lb injectors to fit your rails though as they are different heights.

[HOLDAN]

Dan the ford motorsport 60lb injectors I was talking about are easily big enough for what you want . They are actually 63 lb at 3 bar and 72.9 lb at 4 bar or 58psi. I am using them with a blown 404 and 11psi boost and at WOT they are 85% . With NA they will be less than 85% probably 70% duty cycle. Pumps are your choice. You have to get the 60lb injectors to fit your rails though as they are different heights.

Which injectors will fit my rails?

[white lie]

Aren't L76/L98/LS3/LS7 all 40mm shorty's?

[HOLDAN]

That's what I'd like to know


Aren't L76/L98/LS3/LS7 all 40mm shorty's?

[BLACKVE]

i got the ASE twin pump

http://www.aseturbo.com/HOLDEN-COMMODORE/VE-COMMODORE/VE-TWIN-INTERNAL-SURGE-TANK/prod_451.html

running 350rwks + on E85 with fast 60Lb injectors all good.

Just checked i got 65lb injectors from fast, short style so they just pulu in and play no adaptor etc

[HOLDAN]

Good stuff - thanks.


Just checked i got 65lb injectors from fast, short style so they just pulu in and play no adaptor etc

[ls2 cruiser]

Dan, if you buy injectors make sure they are a common type and your tuner has the injector data for them in a tune that is already scaled. Talk to your tuner and get the part number for the injectors you need. 60 lb injectors of any type don't fit into the software for an E38 so the tune has to be scaled. I don't have any part numbers but if you need injectors then Ballinger Motorsport seems to be the best and cheapest to deal with. You might also buy a AFX NGK wideband sensor from Ballinger as then you can monitor your own Air Fuel Ratio. Injectors cost me about $400 US and the Wideband $250 US .
If your stock injectors and pump are doing the job then why change the stock set up? Just get the AFX NGK wideband and then you will know if there is a problem as well before you spend all that money on something you may not need. The new injectors and pump will not make your engine go any faster if the stock setup has been tuned and everything has been tuned correctly. I have that same wideband and many professional tuners on HPtuners forum use that set up.

[HOLDAN]

Very good advice- thankyou.

The standard set up is going fine. I'm worried that the stock setup now has 180,000km on it. Thought it might be getting a little tired and didn't want to wait until I leaned it out before doing something.

I'll buy the wideband sensor and keep an eye on AFR. Is it hard to install?


Dan, if you buy injectors make sure they are a common type and your tuner has the injector data for them in a tune that is already scaled. Talk to your tuner and get the part number for the injectors you need. 60 lb injectors of any type don't fit into the software for an E38 so the tune has to be scaled. I don't have any part numbers but if you need injectors then Ballinger Motorsport seems to be the best and cheapest to deal with. You might also buy a AFX NGK wideband sensor from Ballinger as then you can monitor your own Air Fuel Ratio. Injectors cost me about $400 US and the Wideband $250 US .
If your stock injectors and pump are doing the job then why change the stock set up? Just get the AFX NGK wideband and then you will know if there is a problem as well before you spend all that money on something you may not need. The new injectors and pump will not make your engine go any faster if the stock setup has been tuned and everything has been tuned correctly. I have that same wideband and many professional tuners on HPtuners forum use that set up.

[ls2 cruiser]

The wideband is very easy to install. The wiring is not hard and I can help you with that if you need it. The important thing with the wiring is to go to the battery with the ground wire so that you have a good earth or ground. Just follow the instructions that come with it. You cannot lengthen the earth but you can shorten it. The wide band must always be warmed up before you start your engine and that can be done if you connect the positive to accessories or ignition. I hard wired mine to the cigarette lighter via the + that goes to it behind the dash. It counts to 20 each time you key on and you should wait for the count to finish before you start the engine. If you don't a gut full of water of fuel may effect the operation of the wideband and is not good for a long happy life. The afx ngk is the one of the most accurate and has a fairly long life span. Dam good value at $250 plus shipping.
Getting back to your existing fuel system maybe just change your fuel filter and put some nulon injector clean in the fuel tank. If your engine has 700hp then the stock fuel system in the VE must be dam good.
You can order the AFX NGK sensor online as I did. I will post the link if I can find it. there is a new model NGK sensor and display out as well, but there may be an issue with it as it is a bit untested to date. The new one reads AFR or Lambda and you can use it to tune diesel engines as well as the afr goes higher to 20:1. The new one costs $299US plus shipping . I have the old one and I am not sure if it is still available. I will look and see on the Ballenger WEbsite for you.
Of course you will need a bung in your exhaust for the wideband , but you may be able to use a 02 sensor bung as your existing tune is probably in open loop all the time. In other words your tune does not use the 02 sensors to adjust your tune anyhow. They still work , but are not used. You could check with your tuner and if it is in open loop then you can take the drivers side 02 out and use that spot. If not then you have to put an extra bung in the exhaust. In most situations where a big cam is used the 02 sensors are not used as they will not read correctly.

[ls2 cruiser]

This is a link to the NGK website for the afx ngk wideband. http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/performance/afx.asp?mode=nml

Ballenger Motorsports website are supplying a different wideband called a AFR500 . I will get the link. Looks as if there has been a bit a sculldugery going on since I last looked.http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/103?osCsid=701fflv60mjju2umqhotno86i2

Heres the link to Ballenger Motorsports website above. It pasted in the wrong spot lol

[ls2 cruiser]

So things have changed since I last looked. NGK has the new AFRM with the ngk sensor(good) and Ballenger Motorsport has the AFR500 with the bosch sensor(poo). The AFRM is $250 and the AFR500 $300 and you can get the ngk sensor for another $50 (swines). The AFRM reads both AFR and Lambda (great) where as the AFR500 only reads AFR . The AFRM has not taken off in the US for some reason, so I don't know which one to recommend until I have a read on Hptuners .

[ls2 cruiser]

The best option is most likely get the AFR500 with the bosch sensor for $300US or pay an extra $50 and get the NTK sensor which is a somewhat better sensor for leaded fuel. For what you want Dan just get the stock bosch sensor.
The AFRM does not seem to have a replacement sensor at this stage and it would mean you have to buy the whole thing over again if your sensor buggers up.