New home wiring ideas

[bush_basha]

Hey guys going to be building in a few months time and want some help on wiring ideas. I'm going to have a theatre room and run the cables thru the walls etc. I was just going to run a few 10m or so hdmi around. As I'll have a TV up front and a projector on the roof so it will be all coming from a central point and I'll have something to switch from projector to TV etc. Same with the bedroom tv on the wall and DVD player etc hidden away on the closet.

So basically I would like some tips from the people in the know. I was reading up that you can send digital over network cable just need the hdmi over cat cable. Tho that seems like a pricey option and im not to sure how that will work.

I have a PS that will be hooked into it, DVD player and obviously sound with amp, plus whatever else. We mainly watch all our shows/movies via usb drive.

So would I just run longer cables or optical, hdmi and usb extensions or is there way better options out there.

Thanks in advance sorry for the long read.
Cheers

[macca_779]

Choose your hardware then cable accordingly. Go to town on ethernet. It's cheap.

[Black VU SS ute]

power points.... power points.... power points....
As above Ethernet the whole house up.... even go multiply points eg quad point in the theatre room as many things will need the net, or network storage and stream your movies, music etc.
Conduit to your light points and or conduit to areas for future upgrades.

[bush_basha]

Basically I have and will use for a while at this stage what I said above, so hdmi, optical audio, usb.

I was thinking best to go Ethernet. What's the recommendations on that cat 5 or 6? Up until the other day I thought Ethernet just provided internet. What else can it be used for?

And yeh power points is a thing I'll be doing. Didn't think of the conduit tho, had thought about what I could do there whether drill holes in the noggins prior. But I like the conduit idea, has to be proper conduit yeh? Where's a good place to buy it? Electrical wholesaler I would presume.

Thanks for the responses.

[Black VU SS ute]

make sure it is at least 25mm conduit, as I seem to have one in my theatre room is 20mm and it sucks 3 of 4 speaker cable could fit down the conduit so had to change cable size :S
I used cat 6 in my house. I be pretty sure to use electrical conduit, should be able to get from bunnings, masters, electrical wholesaler. you can get blank wall plates for the conduit point you do use.

[Micks]

Don't really see any benefit with conduiting if the services are enclosed in a finished wall? I would ensure the penetrations are sufficient enough for any possible upgrades in the future. You could install either extra redundant cabling or a draw wire perhaps.

[CLUBRED]

From what I understand the Americans run almost everything in conduits.

My brother in law who runs an IT business to future proof run co-ax everywhere - I didn't ask why, but it's cheap also..

If you're running the cabling yourself and you got some spare time grab yourself a copy of AS3000 and http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Telco/Infrastructure/Cabling-rules

[bush_basha]

It's hard to run conduit tho because if you know where your going to stick extra things you would just do it then I would assume. But I guess if you plan on adding extra things at a later date the conduit would be handy but if your desperate I guess you can always pull new cables with the old.
Co ax as in aerial Co ax? What would be the point in that I wonder.. Thanks for a link to the rules I'll be sure to read over them

[CLUBRED]

One of the last big houses I did we ran cable trays (baskets), and on the lower level with not much access a few access panels. I guess the old saying is how long is a piece of string, my answer is as long as your willing to pay for.

[Woodchukka]

I ran CAT6 to every room in my house 245m of so of it by the end. I ran extra to where the TV's were going to go and more again into the office. Now the walls are up could even think of extra places I would have like it however I can still achieve some runs later. It is all run to a central point where I will have a switch and a NAS. If you are going to do it run CAT6 as it is the better cable and sweet FA more expensive. Bought a 305m roll from Masters and they looked at me if I was weird.

[wolfeh_]

ive put a few blank conduits to the bedrooms thatll fit antenna, and ethernet, front and rear blank conduits for speakers, and a spare here or there for future fox in the theatre and lounge rooms. besides that, antenna to alfresco and just alot of powerpoints

all the ethernet runs back to a box in the garage with a switch and patch panel
cost a little bit, but its cheaper to do it now than later !

[Micks]

From what I understand the Americans run almost everything in conduits.

My brother in law who runs an IT business to future proof run co-ax everywhere - I didn't ask why, but it's cheap also..

If you're running the cabling yourself and you got some spare time grab yourself a copy of AS3000 and http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Telco/Infrastructure/Cabling-rules

In Aust. we used to run power in conduits in all buildings. No need to anymore! Only reason peeps here would recommend it possibly to maintain segregation standards EG. in close proximity to 240v or higher voltages perhaps otherwise it's unnecessary!!

[bush_basha]

Thanks for the replies so far been helpful. I totally forgot I would need to do the alfresco area with TV points etc.
Thanks for the tip on masters didn't realise they would sell cat6, how much was the roll from memory?

What are you talking about when you say switch and patch panel. Im assuming a mini server so the internet goes into the panel and then 50 cables go out to the locations in the house.

Are you guys just using the cat6 for internet or are you streaming stuff over it?

[C4B]

We use this stuff most of the time now:

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/toughcable/TOUGHCable_Datasheet.pdf

It's a carrier class shielded Cat6. It's primarily designed for outdoor use, but with its heavy duty shielding is good for most applications.

We mainly use it for microwave links between sites where it's running from a POE Switch (indoors) up to an antenna mounted Bridge.

[Micks]

We use this stuff most of the time now:

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/toughcable/TOUGHCable_Datasheet.pdf

It's a carrier class shielded Cat6. It's primarily designed for outdoor use, but with its heavy duty shielding is good for most applications.

We mainly use it for microwave links between sites where it's running from a POE Switch (indoors) up to an antenna mounted Bridge.

& no need for conduit either! Unless off course there's risk of mech. damage etc. ;)

[C4B]

& no need for conduit either! Unless off course there's risk of mech. damage etc. ;)

It's pretty hardcore. The heavy aluminium shielding is a pain to cut through (even intentionally)

The shielding looks like what we call 1000 mile an hour tape.

[bush_basha]

I don't think I'll need that heavy duty, haha. I did find some of the net for like $140 for 305m so pretty cheap. Will then need wall plates and the plugs. Plus then what ever they all connect up to at one meeting point. Can anyone recommend any. Rack and switch if I'm going to need it.

I'm guessing with the Australian standards rules for cabling, that you can't run it next to 240v and that it can't cross over each other?

Thanks

[C4B]

I don't think I'll need that heavy duty, haha. I did find some of the net for like $140 for 305m so pretty cheap. Will then need wall plates and the plugs. Plus then what ever they all connect up to at one meeting point. Can anyone recommend any. Rack and switch if I'm going to need it.

I'm guessing with the Australian standards rules for cabling, that you can't run it next to 240v and that it can't cross over each other?

Thanks

You shouldn't track it next to 240 (but the reality is it still works).

The general rule is if you need to cross 240 with Ethernet, cross it at 90 degrees.

[bush_basha]

Ok no worries I thought as much. Is it an Interference issue or for potentially if they rub thru with each one the Ethernet will become live?
I'm guessing Co ax and all other wiring will be the same cross at 90?

Thanks

[C4B]

Ok no worries I thought as much. Is it an Interference issue or for potentially if they rub thru with each one the Ethernet will become live?
I'm guessing Co ax and all other wiring will be the same cross at 90?

Thanks

Just interference.

As far as I know coax and Ethernet can run parallel, it's really just 240 you want to avoid.

[Woodchukka]

Thanks for the replies so far been helpful. I totally forgot I would need to do the alfresco area with TV points etc.
Thanks for the tip on masters didn't realise they would sell cat6, how much was the roll from memory?

What are you talking about when you say switch and patch panel. Im assuming a mini server so the internet goes into the panel and then 50 cables go out to the locations in the house.

Are you guys just using the cat6 for internet or are you streaming stuff over it?
Best guess is that the cable in a 305m roll was around $115. CAT5e was about $90. Not really that much more for the better cable and it would be better to run it over the CAT5. I had to nearly argue with them to convince them that I wanted a whole roll. They did not get that concept at all.

[BigAnt]

Good thread. About to do the same thing and was going to ask a similar question.
I had planned to run cat6 to every room and also anywhere you might want security cameras. When people refer to POE = Power Over Ethernet which means your camera runs off the ethernet cable, saves you having to run a power cable.
I plan to have a NAS (Networked Attached Storage) for all my files and stream to a media device or HTPC to output to the tv.

Edit - I live in an area with poor radio reception so I will be sure to add an extra antenna point to connect to my AVR for listening to the radio.

[Black VU SS ute]

conduit used on internal walls externals you don't need it.

[C4B]

Good thread. About to do the same thing and was going to ask a similar question.
I had planned to run cat6 to every room and also anywhere you might want security cameras. When people refer to POE = Power Over Ethernet which means your camera runs off the ethernet cable, saves you having to run a power cable.
I plan to have a NAS (Networked Attached Storage) for all my files and stream to a media device or HTPC to output to the tv.

Edit - I live in an area with poor radio reception so I will be sure to add an extra antenna point to connect to my AVR for listening to the radio.

POE is tricky because although it is a standard, lots of different manufacturers have implemented their own proprietary POE stuff.

What makes it worse is that various POE switches have different power ratings so you can have a POE compliant switch that won't power everything you want to plug in to it.

To get around this a lot of POE devices (eg: security camera) come with a POE injector which provides power to just the one device. They plug in to 240v and have one ethernet cable go back to your switch and another proceed on to the device itself. If you only have 1 or 2 POE devices this is a better solution because POE switches are considerably more expensive than a standard switch.

We mainly used Managed POE switches so that we can remotely disconnect devices by powering off their port if required.

[Micks]

conduit used on internal walls externals you don't need it.

Not with you on that logic! :confused:

[swingtan]

Tip if you decide to use conduit.

Run a heavy duty draw string through the conduit as you assemble it. Then when pulling cables, always include a new draw string so there is always one available in the future. Feeding cables through conduit with bends can be a pain otherwise.

Simon.

[bush_basha]

Just interference.

As far as I know coax and Ethernet can run parallel, it's really just 240 you want to avoid.

Cool, Thank you for that.

Alot of good tips happening in this thread which is good. Keep them coming. Cheers



Good thread. About to do the same thing and was going to ask a similar question.
I had planned to run cat6 to every room and also anywhere you might want security cameras. When people refer to POE = Power Over Ethernet which means your camera runs off the ethernet cable, saves you having to run a power cable.
I plan to have a NAS (Networked Attached Storage) for all my files and stream to a media device or HTPC to output to the tv.

Edit - I live in an area with poor radio reception so I will be sure to add an extra antenna point to connect to my AVR for listening to the radio.


I plan for security cameras at one point as well just wasn't sure how I was going to do it.

I do like the idea of the media device or HTPC, can they be bought or do you have to build them. I need something that will work with my audio amp and through the projector so the sound goes through the amp but haven't figured that bit out yet. I have a crappy old media player that I plug a usb in and into the projector but the sound only comes thru the projector speakers, I want to be able to run it thru my amp while playing usb etc.

Thanks

[wolfeh_]

Thanks for the replies so far been helpful. I totally forgot I would need to do the alfresco area with TV points etc.
Thanks for the tip on masters didn't realise they would sell cat6, how much was the roll from memory?

What are you talking about when you say switch and patch panel. Im assuming a mini server so the internet goes into the panel and then 50 cables go out to the locations in the house.

Are you guys just using the cat6 for internet or are you streaming stuff over it?

Switch and patch panel, all the data points through out the house all run back to a little cabinet in the garage. A central hub as such. You can unplug and swap around the cables depending on what you need out of that certain data point. It'll house the router for the internet etc so it's all neat and tidy :D

[bush_basha]

Ok sweet thanks for that, that's what I figure. I believe I have an idea of the panel but not sure of what the switch actually is. There's a package the builders are installing for like $1200 and it has the hills home hub - 600 series enclosed cabinet. Is this similar

[CLUBRED]

I've used the Hills Home Hub or similar successfully, but lately houses (and some large apartments) have had full on 45RU cabinets (one had 2 :shock: )

I have a wall mounted 12Ru, which basically does networking and CCTV, with a small UPS in case some fool decides to pull the power before breaking in.

Lighting control sits in the switchboard in the garage, they're dynalite din rail units. Thinking of changing it all to a Dynalite DALI system, which basically makes each light addressable individually, reconfiguring is as simple is assigning lights/UI's in the software so you're not locked down to switched groups of lights..

[Woodchukka]

I've used the Hills Home Hub or similar successfully, but lately houses (and some large apartments) have had full on 45RU cabinets (one had 2 :shock: )

I have a wall mounted 12Ru, which basically does networking and CCTV, with a small UPS in case some fool decides to pull the power before breaking in.

Lighting control sits in the switchboard in the garage, they're dynalite din rail units. Thinking of changing it all to a Dynalite DALI system, which basically makes each light addressable individually, reconfiguring is as simple is assigning lights/UI's in the software so you're not locked down to switched groups of lights..
UPS for the security cameras. Good idea. Will have to work that one in.

[bush_basha]

I've used the Hills Home Hub or similar successfully, but lately houses (and some large apartments) have had full on 45RU cabinets (one had 2 :shock: )

I have a wall mounted 12Ru, which basically does networking and CCTV, with a small UPS in case some fool decides to pull the power before breaking in.

Lighting control sits in the switchboard in the garage, they're dynalite din rail units. Thinking of changing it all to a Dynalite DALI system, which basically makes each light addressable individually, reconfiguring is as simple is assigning lights/UI's in the software so you're not locked down to switched groups of lights..

Is the hills home hub worth it or is it only small. I'm a noob with this stuff.
Good idea about the cameras will any camera system hook into a network system or do you need special ones? And an ups never would have thought if this which is good.

I was looking at the insteon system for lights and power in the media room for starters and grow as time goes on. Is that the similar system to what you mentioned?

[bush_basha]

http://www.4cabling.com.au/16-port-gigabit-desktop-rackmount-switch-14808.html#.VBpJ4FA_7qA

I'm assuming this is a switch?
So I can plug the internet into that, but can I also plug in other computers, htpc, printers, playstation, hardrives etc etc and be able to access it all or would I need more stuff?

[C4B]

I wouldn't go for that brand (ever).

If you're after a switch go for Cisco or if you want something cheaper maybe Netgear (prosafe level).

[bush_basha]

That's what I want tho, that's a switch? And it'll do what I want? Thanks for the heads up

[C4B]

That's what I want tho, that's a switch? And it'll do what I want? Thanks for the heads up

It's the correct device. I just wouldn't ever use that brand.

Then again, I'd never buy a Great Wall ute, but there's plenty that do....

[Micks]

It's the correct device. I just wouldn't ever use that brand.

Then again, I'd never buy a Great Wall ute, but there's plenty that do....

I can attest to C4's recommendation & just quietly wouldn't own/drive a GR8 Wall either!! ;)

[bush_basha]

So should I just do away with the hills home hub and get something like the net gear switch? Does it have to be compatible with nbn speeds?
What type of Alarm systems and camera systems can be run thru the network, all or most or only certain types?

[C4B]

As far as I can tell the Hills Home Hub is the Networking equivalent of an All in one Printer. I can't comment on it because we simply never deal with that type of product. Others on here who have them or have used them would probably be able to offer advice.

[lumina ss]

I ran duel rg6 quad to every room for foxtel just in case. And cat 6 buck to a central hub in the study. I found i use the foxtel but not the cat 6 as my wireless network is fast and stable so theres no need. I watch netflix hulu and amazon prime buffer free.

[bush_basha]

Ok thanks guys. Can you get ordinary hard drives ie usb type that can plug into a network or would you plug it into a computer that is on the network and then access it from another computer on the network?

Anyone live on the goldy that has a network willing to show me around it?

[Black VU SS ute]

NAS drives, like a WD My Live Book. I run a Synology DS414 with 2 6TB WD red drives, and can put 2 more in to increase my storage as I need.

[C4B]

We have a QNAP running 6 x 3TB Hitachi's. For home use something a lot smaller will suffice.

[bush_basha]

Something like this, this is obviously alot cheaper than the ones you guys mentioned, haha.
http://www.lmc.com.au/products/Hard_Disk_Drive_and_Enclosure/Western_Digital/584950/WD_My_Cloud_EX2_4TB_[WDBVKW0040JCH-SESN]

Can TV's that have a Ethernet plug on the back able to connect Into the storage capacity of a nas and then watch something off the storage.

[bush_basha]

POE is tricky because although it is a standard, lots of different manufacturers have implemented their own proprietary POE stuff.

What makes it worse is that various POE switches have different power ratings so you can have a POE compliant switch that won't power everything you want to plug in to it.

To get around this a lot of POE devices (eg: security camera) come with a POE injector which provides power to just the one device. They plug in to 240v and have one ethernet cable go back to your switch and another proceed on to the device itself. If you only have 1 or 2 POE devices this is a better solution because POE switches are considerably more expensive than a standard switch.

We mainly used Managed POE switches so that we can remotely disconnect devices by powering off their port if required.
Back to POE, is this something that will be good, then get the cameras to suit it and all sweet, or is it quite the hassle?
Would that be as simple as run the cat 6 cable to each corner of the house where the cameras will go and back to the dvr and all good no need for other cables etc?

http://www.cn-cctv.com/ds-7616ni-se-p-hikvision-16ch-8xpoe-network-video-recorder-hdmi-nvr-up-to-5mp.html

[HSV Listy]

Consider security camera if you are running all that cat 5 and poe. Cheap to do from scratch. Simple to fit cameras and recorders at a later date

[bush_basha]

Consider security camera if you are running all that cat 5 and poe. Cheap to do from scratch. Simple to fit cameras and recorders at a later date
That's what I posted above, it's a network video recorder with 8 POE points to connect cameras into. That's how I see it anyway.

[BigAnt]

Something like this, this is obviously alot cheaper than the ones you guys mentioned, haha.
http://www.lmc.com.au/products/Hard_Disk_Drive_and_Enclosure/Western_Digital/584950/WD_My_Cloud_EX2_4TB_[WDBVKW0040JCH-SESN]

Can TV's that have a Ethernet plug on the back able to connect Into the storage capacity of a nas and then watch something off the storage.

I believe so, but some tv's may be limited to the video format they can play. You could get a HTPC that can access and play files, and blu-ray, record TV, they even have torrent clients that automatically download the TV shows you want when they come out and also organise your media library. Unfortunately I don't have any I can recommend because I haven't had first hand experience. I sure some of the blokes here would know though.

[Raptor6L]

I believe so, but some tv's may be limited to the video format they can play. You could get a HTPC that can access and play files, and blu-ray, record TV, they even have torrent clients that automatically download the TV shows you want when they come out and also organise your media library. Unfortunately I don't have any I can recommend because I haven't had first hand experience. I sure some of the blokes here would know though.

Or you can build a Home Server, intergrate it into your home network, and install something like Plex Media Server (https://plex.tv/), or Media Browser 3 (http://mediabrowser.tv/) on it. I haven't played with Plex, but I know with MB3 you can basically register all your viewing devices as clients (eg PS3, Samsung TV, Sony TV, etc etc) and what file types they can play. Then if you want to play a media file that is not compatible with your device, MB3 converts it (remux) on the fly to the file type your system will play. Fairly certain Plex does the same thing, and PS3 Media Server is another if all you have is a PS3.

Now, having said that, I'm not sure how well all that works cause I have 2 x HTPC's hooked up in the main viewing areas, and they can play anything you can throw at it, so I don't actually use the MB3 remuxing service..... but, I'm led to believe that they work pretty well, providing you have a fairly solid processor in the server.

Macca did a write up on Plex a while back. (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?167268-Plex-Media-Server-How-To-Consume-Your-Media-In-Style)

Cheers
Chris

[bush_basha]

Thanks for the reply. I was considering grabbing/trying to build myself a HTPC eventually. But with something like that I would need to have it in the media room and run my hdmi cables from it to TV and projector, I couldn't use it say in the bedroom unless I ran hdmi from it accross to bedroom or can you run it thru the server?

[C4B]

I would strongly recommend keeping things simple. Once you start going with HTPC's and the like, you can easily create a complex (ie: potentially unreliable) system.

Keep it as simple as possible. Provided you have the cabling in place, you can go nuts down the track.

[bush_basha]

I would strongly recommend keeping things simple. Once you start going with HTPC's and the like, you can easily create a complex (ie: potentially unreliable) system.

Keep it as simple as possible. Provided you have the cabling in place, you can go nuts down the track.
Good point, we're starting to get off track with complex things, starting to confuse me, haha, plus it can be done later on. Basically I wanted ideas of what I should do before the walls get plastered. And so we've come up with Ethernet, co-ax and I've figured speaker wire. Also I'll run hdmi and optical cables thru the roof area (media and bedroom) to the TV and projector points to one central location.

Will I run into dramas and poor quality getting hdmi, optical, usb extension cables at about 10m long. I'm planning on running it to wall to wall into wall plates so then you just connect up a short cable to the wall and we're good. But I'm unsure if that's another connection point whether it'll reduce the quality. Either that or just have one of those wall plates that are the hole to run the cables through. (not a fan of these though but cheaper as less cords and probably less hassles with picture and sound quality)

Thanks

[C4B]

Good point, we're starting to get off track with complex things, starting to confuse me, haha, plus it can be done later on. Basically I wanted ideas of what I should do before the walls get plastered. And so we've come up with Ethernet, co-ax and I've figured speaker wire. Also I'll run hdmi and optical cables thru the roof area (media and bedroom) to the TV and projector points to one central location.

Will I run into dramas and poor quality getting hdmi, optical, usb extension cables at about 10m long. I'm planning on running it to wall to wall into wall plates so then you just connect up a short cable to the wall and we're good. But I'm unsure if that's another connection point whether it'll reduce the quality. Either that or just have one of those wall plates that are the hole to run the cables through. (not a fan of these though but cheaper as less cords and probably less hassles with picture and sound quality)

Thanks

If it were me I'd run properly terminated wall points.

But if you wanted to run direct called you can use brush wall points.

3538

[macca_779]

Or you can build a Home Server, intergrate it into your home network, and install something like Plex Media Server (https://plex.tv/), or Media Browser 3 (http://mediabrowser.tv/) on it. I haven't played with Plex, but I know with MB3 you can basically register all your viewing devices as clients (eg PS3, Samsung TV, Sony TV, etc etc) and what file types they can play. Then if you want to play a media file that is not compatible with your device, MB3 converts it (remux) on the fly to the file type your system will play. Fairly certain Plex does the same thing, and PS3 Media Server is another if all you have is a PS3.

Now, having said that, I'm not sure how well all that works cause I have 2 x HTPC's hooked up in the main viewing areas, and they can play anything you can throw at it, so I don't actually use the MB3 remuxing service..... but, I'm led to believe that they work pretty well, providing you have a fairly solid processor in the server.

Macca did a write up on Plex a while back. (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?167268-Plex-Media-Server-How-To-Consume-Your-Media-In-Style)

Cheers
Chris
I use Plex. Yeah it does transcode and it does a bloody good job of it too. My server is an old core 2 duo dell laptop. I use direct play on all my devices at home. But when I'm streaming my content away from home it automatically transcodes due to limited bandwidth of being on adsl2+. . 1080 files take around 15 seconds to start playing. But after that it's solid as long as nothing else is uploading at home.

[bush_basha]

If it were me I'd run properly terminated wall points.

But if you wanted to run direct called you can use brush wall points.

3538
Yes I prefer the neater look of terminated wall points as well. But I read somewhere because your adding another two connections it can reduce the quality, is this true?

[bush_basha]

I use Plex. Yeah it does transcode and it does a bloody good job of it too. My server is an old core 2 duo dell laptop. I use direct play on all my devices at home.

So you've now made the laptop only to work as a media server and nothing else?
What's direct play, is that a program? If so how do you get that to work on a tv?

[macca_779]

So you've now made the laptop only to work as a media server and nothing else?
What's direct play, is that a program? If so how do you get that to work on a tv?

It does a couple of other tasks, but yeah for the most part it's just to run plex.

Direct play is just passing the raw video file to the client without conversion.

Plex has apps for most devices. I use an LG TV and a chromecast for my home

I did a write up on my set up a little while ago

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?167268-Plex-Media-Server-How-To-Consume-Your-Media-In-Style

[C4B]

Yes I prefer the neater look of terminated wall points as well. But I read somewhere because your adding another two connections it can reduce the quality, is this true?

For the Ethernet and Coaxial it's definitely not a drama.

For the hdmi the wall plates have a female connector on the back so if you run a standard hdmi cable in the wallspace. We have this setup at home without issue but we aren't doing any super long runs.

[bush_basha]

For the Ethernet and Coaxial it's definitely not a drama.

For the hdmi the wall plates have a female connector on the back so if you run a standard hdmi cable in the wallspace. We have this setup at home without issue but we aren't doing any super long runs.

What about coaxial split off to 7 or so points, will that reduce the quality I know back in the old days you couldn't really split it more than once or twice without a booster, Is it still the same or have things changed with digital?

[macca_779]

You'll need a booster more than likely running 7

[C4B]

What about coaxial split off to 7 or so points, will that reduce the quality I know back in the old days you couldn't really split it more than once or twice without a booster, Is it still the same or have things changed with digital?

Anything above 2 and I'd be running a booster.

[bush_basha]

Cool I figured as much, Thanks

[bush_basha]

Cabling difference.
Obviously there's different cables for Ethernet. Cat6 is the way to go for that at this point in time. Is there stuff that we should make sure it has?

Coax is there different types of this, what are the options available for that and a better option.

[macca_779]

Cabling difference.
Obviously there's different cables for Ethernet. Cat6 is the way to go for that at this point in time. Is there stuff that we should make sure it has?

Coax is there different types of this, what are the options available for that and a better option.
For coax I'd run rg6

[bush_basha]

For coax I'd run rg6
That's mate, that's what I figured just wanted to double check. Cheers

[bush_basha]

Is a patch panel the same thing as a switch?
I look around a things and I noticed that there's all different types, which now I got no idea what the difference is, haha.
Patch panels look small and thin..
Then there managed switches, smart switches, unmanaged plus switches and then unmanaged switches. Just to name a few. Is there much difference?

[C4B]

Is a patch panel the same thing as a switch?
I look around a things and I noticed that there's all different types, which now I got no idea what the difference is, haha.
Patch panels look small and thin..
Then there managed switches, smart switches, unmanaged plus switches and then unmanaged switches. Just to name a few. Is there much difference?

Yes, the difference between a patch panel and a switch is huge. Kinda like asking is there any difference between a power point and a power board.

If you aren't familiar with something like this (which is very fundamental) I would strongly advise you get a professional to carry out any work you wish to do.

[bush_basha]

Yes I see there is a difference now, did a slight amount of googling, more to go however.
If I get a professional in then I won't learn, I like to know what's happening that's why I ask the questions cause some of you guys have a lot of knowledge on this stuff. Plus it obviously works out cheaper me doing it so it's a win win.

[Micks]

I refuse to be the one to say here but!!! "It is illegal to cable anything unless your a properly licensed individual" Don't mean a "drivers License" either :stick:

[C4B]

I refuse to be the one to say here but!!! "It is illegal to cable anything unless your a properly licensed individual" Don't mean a "drivers License" either :stick:

That's partly right.

[bush_basha]

You can still cable things if your under the supervision of a cabler

[bush_basha]

What's a standard rg6 coax connector. I know there's bnc, which is for cameras etc, F type for pay TV which has a screw fitting, but can't find anything on a standard type. Just a standard type in the back of a tv and into a wall.

[C4B]

Yes I see there is a difference now, did a slight amount of googling, more to go however.
If I get a professional in then I won't learn, I like to know what's happening that's why I ask the questions cause some of you guys have a lot of knowledge on this stuff. Plus it obviously works out cheaper me doing it so it's a win win.

That can be the case sometimes. Other times it can end up costing twice as much because a lot of the consumer grade gear is rubbish and you end up having to get the right thing the 2nd time instead.

[bush_basha]

That can be the case sometimes. Other times it can end up costing twice as much because a lot of the consumer grade gear is rubbish and you end up having to get the right thing the 2nd time instead.
Yeh I totally understand that, that's why I like to do the research first. Plus it can still work that way as some sales people just sell what the have extra of in stock, etc you know how it goes.

I think I figured out the rg6 connector, it still uses the f type but then a PAL fitting gets screwed on the end.

[bush_basha]

Do i actually need a Patch Panel? all i can see is that it just makes it neater as the wiring goes into the back of it and easier to connect up all the wiring to another device with a patch lead. or is it going to make life alot easier with a panel?

if i just put ends on them can i just connect it up to a network switch?

if i stick the network switch in the garage, and in the study with a cable or two running back to the network switch can i connect the internet router in through one of the cables into the switches internet port? and then all the cat6 lines then have internet if its set up for all cables.

Below are two switches that i found, are they decent units or should i go for something else. is there anything else im going to need if i want to connect say a printer, NAS, HTPC etc all up to the server?

http://www.mwave.com.au/product/hp-procurve-switch-141024g-gigabit-24port-j9561a-aa39168?gclid=CjwKEAjwk_OhBRD06abu3qSoxlwSJACt7sZ7 Kbk1FazwxypkpIH8XRwQYBqbdODBuwT1l4tnI9LTmhoCxEHw_w cB#detailTabs=tabSpecifications\

http://www.mwave.com.au/product/netgear-gs724tv4-prosafe-24-port-gigabit-smart-switch-ab55256?gclid=CjwKEAjwk_OhBRD06abu3qSoxlwSJACt7sZ7 4_ejjTYNHaAD9o4ewgYEpuFkDxKS5BSw0agZNTqXUBoCVuXw_w cB

[bush_basha]

You shouldn't track it next to 240 (but the reality is it still works).

The general rule is if you need to cross 240 with Ethernet, cross it at 90 degrees.
Hey mate in regards to this, if you have 240, then a stud then run coax and cat 6 will that cause any cross talk issues? Basically so you have power points and the coax and cat 6 next to each other on the plaster but behind it is a stud separating the 2?

Also is coax and cat 6 fine to run next to each other along with speaker wire, hdmi etc? Is the only bad one the 240?

[CLUBRED]

As/ca s009:2013

[Micks]

As/ca s009:2013
Bash has a lot of reading, thought the segregation rule was approx. 200mm gap between AC & Comms, but long time since I played that shit!

[bush_basha]

I'm assuming with the stud in the way that's going to block it enough.
By the way this is only for me to set it up for an electrician down the track. I'm going to stick wall brackets and conduit for provisions later on to make it easier for everyone

[bush_basha]

So yeh reading that it says 50mm or a stud of any thickness. So that's pretty easy. Cheers

[CLUBRED]

For what it's worth and I'll say it once and put it to bed. I'm assuming you don't have a cabler's license and by the sounds it appears you aren't being instructed by someone who does, so making you aware that you may or may not be breaking the law and also running the potential of you being refused insurance claim.

[bush_basha]

For what it's worth and I'll say it once and put it to bed. I'm assuming you don't have a cabler's license and by the sounds it appears you aren't being instructed by someone who does, so making you aware that you may or may not be breaking the law and also running the potential of you being refused insurance claim.
So I can't even run conduit through the walls for future cable runs, put wall brackets on studs for future wall plates. That all has to be done by a cabler?

[macca_779]

So I can't even run conduit through the walls for future cable runs, put wall brackets on studs for future wall plates. That all has to be done by a cabler?

Of course you can. You can do the whole job running cable too if you want. Just need a licensed guy to sign it off if you care for such things. Sounds like you've done your research mate so I wouldn't stress. Plenty of dodgy legit sparkys out there I assure you. I've had Kents try pull the wool over my eyes in rentals installing power for A/C's, RG6 for TV etc I've lived in. Little do they know while I'm not technically licensed for residential shit I've got avionics quals that far exceed their standards and I'm aware of most res standards anyway due to professional interest. Frankly most work I've seen by sparkys is shit. Sure it complies, but it's messy and no one ever seems to allow for the next guy that might have to work there. Very different to what I'm used to

[Micks]

In a dom. home there won't be any problem so long as the work is done reasonably.
Eg. timber penetrations are centered through members to ensure no fixings come into contact with the conductors. The other issue with comms & AC cabling too close is not so much crosstalk/interference but the likely hood of AC shorting down to the comms/data with the possibility then of a catastrophe!
Only other time it may be an issue in a home if you have a future insurance claim & they reject it with proof of illegal works?

[bush_basha]

Thanks for the replies, that's what I figured I could do most things just not the wiring side.
I aware that it's because of shorting out etc aswell.
I'd hate to do all this pre work only to find out later on tho that the coax or cat6 is picking up interference from the 240v etc

[CLUBRED]

Only other time it may be an issue in a home if you have a future insurance claim & they reject it with proof of illegal works?

Or it's picked up during a building inspection making the house un-sellable.

[macca_779]

Or it's picked up during a building inspection making the house un-sellable.

As longs as it's not dodgy as hell no one is going to pick it. I sold my house last year and I added shit all over the place. Extra GPO's. RG6, Cat 6 to every room. I made it neat and followed the regs. No problems

[bush_basha]

Are you required to have a licence to run RG6?

[Micks]

Not an authority, but have been told in NSW is a $20K fine if caught/carrying out unlicensed cabling/Elec. work!

[Number55]

Data is barely electrical work though Micks. A couple of days training and you have a license. You dont even need to know the principles of how and why it works.

[Number55]

Or it's picked up during a building inspection making the house un-sellable.
It would be very rare to have a building inspector pick up non compliant electrical work.... it would have to be pretty dodgy, building inspectors are chippys, they are going to pull covers off and inspect or see what is connected to what circuit.

[Micks]

Data is barely electrical work though Micks. A couple of days training and you have a license. You dont even need to know the principles of how and why it works.

I'm with you No:96. I did the old Austel course back in 97. Afraid it took more than 2 days to complete...by memory was 12 weeks?
I'm in HVAC & run numerous data/comm cabling for AC controls etc. & never had a problem/failure or a fine!

[Number55]

12 weeks of nights? There isnt much to it these days. It's not even Austel anymore. Most sparkies do it an an elective through their trade schooling.
Oh HVAC, I have a fair bit to do with it as Im a Instro/Sparky offshore and work with carrier systems ...... but im no fridgey!

[Micks]

Was a day a week over twelve weeks ffs!
Bloody Carriers! :doh:

[bush_basha]

I agree with the data being barely electrical, i always wondered why it requires a licence. I guess so the regs are there so you don't run it close to 240v for the next guy that comes along.
What about rg6 does that require a licence?

[Micks]

Mate, I think you'll find "any" cabling will require a "competent" person to install. That's not to say you install it & a Licensed person does the terminations though.

[macca_779]

If you can't terminate rg6 with an f type connector, hand over your man card. Easiest electrical termination there is

[HZforMe]

Believe me even people who claim to be skilled at it can make a hash of it. Had to redo all the connectors put in by an aerial installer at my dads place so the TV would work in his bedroom when he was sick.

Over here (NZ) your don't need a ticket for data or rg6.

Mind you if you don't know what you are doing with data you can seriously affect the performance.

[macca_779]

Believe me even people who claim to be skilled at it can make a hash of it. Had to redo all the connectors put in by an aerial installer at my dads place so the TV would work in his bedroom when he was sick.

Over here (NZ) your don't need a ticket for data or rg6.

Mind you if you don't know what you are doing with data you can seriously affect the performance.

That's scary. Data I can sort of understand as there are a few good practices to look out for. Ie keep the pairs twisted as close as possible to the termination, use the pull string so you don't nick the insulation, don't run parallel with power where possible, use cat 6 cable with cat 6 terminations. To loose performance with cat 5e or 6 for under 100m, they must of really screwed it up. The stuff is fairly robust.

[bush_basha]

That's scary. Data I can sort of understand as there are a few good practices to look out for. Ie keep the pairs twisted as close as possible to the termination, use the pull string so you don't nick the insulation, don't run parallel with power where possible, use cat 6 cable with cat 6 terminations. To loose performance with cat 5e or 6 for under 100m, they must of really screwed it up. The stuff is fairly robust.
With the connections, keeping everything the same, cat6 for instance, is it best to keep it the same brand or can you mix and match. Like should the cabling, to the jacks to the patch panel all be the same brand?

[macca_779]

With the connections, keeping everything the same, cat6 for instance, is it best to keep it the same brand or can you mix and match. Like should the cabling, to the jacks to the patch panel all be the same brand?

Doesn't matter

[CLUBRED]

Only reason to go the same is to maintain warranties etc, when we do big jobs (hospitals etc) the manufacturer will occasionally want to inspect them themselves before handing over the statement of warranty - but generally they require more onerous separations than what standards dictate aswell.

[Pickles]

Who can install Foxtel cabling?...I'm a bit worried about installers getting in my roof to run cables & damaging things like airconditioning ducting etc?
Pickles.

[Wonky]

We've just had Foxtel installed at our current place as well as at our previous place and they never got in the roof. All cabling was run externally.

[duke5700]

You would have to be a complete turkey to damage A/C ducting... seriously you can almost lie on it.


Who can install Foxtel cabling?...I'm a bit worried about installers getting in my roof to run cables & damaging things like airconditioning ducting etc?
Pickles.

[macca_779]

We've just had Foxtel installed at our current place as well as at our previous place and they never got in the roof. All cabling was run externally.

That's cause they're lazy kents Wonk.

[shaness8]

Have Foxtel they had to get into the roof to run cable from the dish to the box.

Once he done his bit i started running it to other rooms using cat 5e, works a treat can watch Foxtel in 3 rooms and even change the channel's.

[jc_sv8]

You would have to be a complete turkey to damage A/C ducting... seriously you can almost lie on it.

It's not the turkeys I'm worried about it's the monkeys swinging from it!
Don't you remember the kind of guys that performed the installation of the "home insulation scam"! They now work as cablers for Foxtel...

Those that lived :stick:

[duke5700]

Thats the risk you face when you use un qualified monkeys.. people looking to make a buck and oversight that was non-existent, end up with people dead.

Ask any real tradesman whats in a house roof and he could probably list the possible hazards quite easily. Even old cabling or VIR, perished insulation, mice/rats, broken solid core... no RCDs that took me 30 secs to realise it might not be a good idea to put conductive insulation in a roof. I don't even do residential work..



It's not the turkeys I'm worried about it's the monkeys swinging from it!
Don't you remember the kind of guys that performed the installation of the "home insulation scam"! They now work as cablers for Foxtel...

Those that lived :stick:

[jc_sv8]

Exactly!! We've got plenty of qualified sparkies in the family and some of the work they have seen would make a great TV show.

Years ago when I had Foxtel installed I told the install guy that we had conduit running down an interior wall so please run your cable through that from the roof.
His response was that they weren't allowed to so he ran external conduit down the exterior of the interior wall and it looked shite.
I removed it and ran it through the conduit and removed all trace of their crap work.

[Micks]

You would have to be a complete turkey to damage A/C ducting... seriously you can almost lie on it.
Yes you can lie on the flexes but not so on BTO's & other fittings like zone assy's etc!!

[bush_basha]

I managed to pick up a old but basically new second hand switch,
It's a gs724t v3h2 netgear prosafe. It's a managed one but because I know nothing about them I'm hoping and the manual says, that I can just plug it in and away I go. I'm hoping to learn more about it as I go along.

Anyways what I would like to know is, I have nbn, do I come out of the nbn box into my ISP provided router/wifi device and then plug that into my switch? Do I just plug it into port one or any of the 24 ports and then away I go plugging in the rest to the patch panel? Or is there a separate port where I plug the router as I can't see one. Though if I plug it into one of the 24 ports then that only leaves me with 23 to go.

[C4B]

I managed to pick up a old but basically new second hand switch,
It's a gs724t v3h2 netgear prosafe. It's a managed one but because I know nothing about them I'm hoping and the manual says, that I can just plug it in and away I go. I'm hoping to learn more about it as I go along.

Anyways what I would like to know is, I have nbn, do I come out of the nbn box into my ISP provided router/wifi device and then plug that into my switch? Do I just plug it into port one or any of the 24 ports and then away I go plugging in the rest to the patch panel? Or is there a separate port where I plug the router as I can't see one. Though if I plug it into one of the 24 ports then that only leaves me with 23 to go.

The NBN box is purely just internet out the wall. Your WIFI/Router dishes out local IP addresses to anything you connect to your local network (amongst other things). The switch is like the network equivalent of a power board (in very basic terms). Run a patch lead from your WIFI/Router to the switch (any port) and then plug all your other devices into the switch.

[bush_basha]

The NBN box is purely just internet out the wall. Your WIFI/Router dishes out local IP addresses to anything you connect to your local network (amongst other things). The switch is like the network equivalent of a power board (in very basic terms). Run a patch lead from your WIFI/Router to the switch (any port) and then plug all your other devices into the switch.
Thanks mate, that sums it up perfectly. Makes sense saying the switch is like a network power board.

[C4B]

Thanks mate, that sums it up perfectly. Makes sense saying the switch is like a network power board.

It's not as relevant these days because they've pretty much gone the way of the Video Shop but there used to be "hubs" as well as "switches".

The main difference between the two is that a hub would receive a packet of data and re-broadcast it to all other ports because it had no knowledge of what device was connected to what port. I guess you could say it almost worked like a UHF CB Repeater.

A Switch on the other hand knows what device it connected to what port so if you sent a print job to your printer when the packets of data hit the switch they are directed only to the port the printer is connected to. Less like a CB Repeater and more like a phone call.

Don't get too caught up in the whole "managed" switch idea. Most of the time we only use the management console to switch things like Power over Ethernet on/off and mundane things like that. You can control port speeds for individual ports etc. but most of the time even managed switches get configured and then forgotten.

[bush_basha]

Cool thanks for that explanation, makes sense. it's good to know that the managed side won't be needed all the time so I can just plug and go for now. Cheers

[bush_basha]

With cat6 cable for internet, can it be run off the back of another cat 6 plug in a parallel circuit making 2 plugs in the same line?
When the data people have done our phone line that's what they have done, they have put 2 points in the garage and 1 in family room but it's just connected to the one plug in the middle basically as a joiner.
I'm going to need another internet point installed and I'm wondering can they just take it off the back of another plug and run that to the location I want it.
There won't be anything plugged into the other plugs it's just to piggy back off as it's going to be the main line I'm just wondering if I'll need new wall plates before someone comes around.

[Micks]

With cat6 cable for internet, can it be run off the back of another cat 6 plug in a parallel circuit making 2 plugs in the same line?
When the data people have done our phone line that's what they have done, they have put 2 points in the garage and 1 in family room but it's just connected to the one plug in the middle basically as a joiner.
I'm going to need another internet point installed and I'm wondering can they just take it off the back of another plug and run that to the location I want it.
There won't be anything plugged into the other plugs it's just to piggy back off as it's going to be the main line I'm just wondering if I'll need new wall plates before someone comes around.

Can physically be done but not recommended for internet. Daisy chaining phone lines is acceptable.

[C4B]

With cat6 cable for internet, can it be run off the back of another cat 6 plug in a parallel circuit making 2 plugs in the same line?
When the data people have done our phone line that's what they have done, they have put 2 points in the garage and 1 in family room but it's just connected to the one plug in the middle basically as a joiner.
I'm going to need another internet point installed and I'm wondering can they just take it off the back of another plug and run that to the location I want it.
There won't be anything plugged into the other plugs it's just to piggy back off as it's going to be the main line I'm just wondering if I'll need new wall plates before someone comes around.

So are you just wanting to join to an existing cable?

[bush_basha]

Basically what they have done is, where the nbn is they have a phone point and a Internet point, to plug from the nbn to there then along the same wall they have another phone point and internet point to plug in the phone and router.
I'm wanting to have a Internet point from the nbn point to my data cabinet to connect my router there. So I'm wondering if they have to change a the wall plate or if they can just daisy off the original router one and into the data cabinet. But I won't be using the original router one as it'll now be in the data cabinet. If that makes sense?
Or would it be easier to just get them to redo a whole new connection all again instead of daisy chaining.

[C4B]

Basically what they have done is, where the nbn is they have a phone point and a Internet point, to plug from the nbn to there then along the same wall they have another phone point and internet point to plug in the phone and router.
I'm wanting to have a Internet point from the nbn point to my data cabinet to connect my router there. So I'm wondering if they have to change a the wall plate or if they can just daisy off the original router one and into the data cabinet. But I won't be using the original router one as it'll now be in the data cabinet. If that makes sense?
Or would it be easier to just get them to redo a whole new connection all again instead of daisy chaining.

I'd be using the existing cable to pull through a new one. Cat6 is so cheap these days it's not worth doing a bodgy. Then just put a blank plate where the old one used to terminate.

[bush_basha]

Ok sweet as, good to know. Thanks mate

[C4B]

There's lots of ways of bodgying network cabling. I've got a new client who had a single network outlet in an office which is miles away from everywhere else. The cable run is approximately 55 metres.

They decided they wanted to add a network printer in that office and instead of just plugging a 4 port switch in and running both devices off that their electrician split the cat5 cable into two ports whereby instead of terminating all 4 pair, they use 2 pair for one port and 2 pair for the other. This limits your connection to 100 and is a general pain in the ass.

My experience is that a lot of electricians don't have much networking knowledge so although they're great at terminating connections and running cable, they're pretty clueless when it comes to network topography.

[Devil CV8]

I'd be using the existing cable to pull through a new one. Cat6 is so cheap these days it's not worth doing a bodgy. Then just put a blank plate where the old one used to terminate. normally I'd agree with you, however when you get a quote for over $2,000 for 2 outlets in a single story easy to cable building, you have to question the value of running new cables.
Then again I am talking about a town in far north Qld, so a bit remote.

[C4B]

normally I'd agree with you, however when you get a quote for over $2,000 for 2 outlets in a single story easy to cable building, you have to question the value of running new cables.
Then again I am talking about a town in far north Qld, so a bit remote.

If that's the case I'd flick the cable altogether and go for an enterprise grade wireless solution (for a fraction of the cost).

Obviously the electricians up that way must think they're still working for the mines at those rates.

[Devil CV8]

If that's the case I'd flick the cable altogether and go for an enterprise grade wireless solution (for a fraction of the cost).

Obviously the electricians up that way must think they're still working for the mines at those rates.

All wan sites are getting enterprise wifi, and my suggestion has been to wait for that to happen. These remote areas are getting a lot of attention from management, so it won't be a long wait. I'm even on my way for a small tour to a couple of fnq sites this week.

[Micks]

All wan sites are getting enterprise wifi, and my suggestion has been to wait for that to happen. These remote areas are getting a lot of attention from management, so it won't be a long wait. I'm even on my way for a small tour to a couple of fnq sites this week.

Maybe wrong though I think C4 was referring to an wireless access point.

[bush_basha]

hopefully you guys can help me

I'm looking into some occupancy sensors for my house in a couple areas, just wondering if anyone has some ideas on some. I have led downlights

I looked at a place tonight they had microwave motion sensors (atom at008s) but had to be ordered in and couldn't really tell me much about them. However they basically looked like a controller but they didn't mount in the ceiling or wall they just sat in the wall cavity or roof cavity. So I don't understand if it would work as I anticipated? Anyone have any feedback or a similar item.

Or there's the older style that look like a led light just with a motion sensor dome in it but it can be seen.

And then I'm looking for a run on timer for an exhaust fan when it gets switched off it continues to run for a approx amount of time before shutting down. I've found one that seems ok just seeing if there's any others out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Micks]

With the run on timers for vent fans I now use these:
http://www.fantech.com.au/AncilRange.aspx?RangeID=40
In the old days I use to make them up with a din mounted Onrom timer though these units above are quick & reliable.

[bush_basha]

With the run on timers for vent fans I now use these:
http://www.fantech.com.au/AncilRange.aspx?RangeID=40
In the old days I use to make them up with a din mounted Onrom timer though these units above are quick & reliable.

Thanks mate, there the ones that I have checked out previously as that's all I can find in Google, lol. They look the goods and at least you confirmed it for me. There pretty pricey though aren't that?

[Micks]

I'm in the HVAC trade so get a bit off, but these are commercial quality & never had to replace one yet.