E85 Upgrade

[HOLDAN]

I'm thinking of buying a Fuel Flex for my 2006 VESS 406ci na stroker.

On the order page, there is a selection of Cable Type and a selection of Connector Type.

How do I find out which one to select??

Dan

[zorro]

Give Justin a call, ultimate performance wiring

[Micks]

Dan you can buy both the sensor & harness from Pace in the states much keener than buying here locally from Holden.
http://paceperformance.com/i-8396465-13352241-flex-fuel-e85-composition-sensor-harness.html
Then just a matter of back wiring a pin to the E38 for the trigger connection.

[HOLDAN]

Thanks for that Micks.


Dan you can buy both the sensor & harness from Pace in the states much keener than buying here locally from Holden.
http://paceperformance.com/i-8396465-13352241-flex-fuel-e85-composition-sensor-harness.html
Then just a matter of back wiring a pin to the E38 for the trigger connection.

[Micks]

Dan you need to connect the sensor wire back to pin#40 @ the E38, the other two wires are battery through ignition side off course.

[pwr346]

sorry to hi jack, but i cant fit a flex sensor to a vy 2 ss computer can I?

[duke5700]

Contact Castle Hill/Ultimate Wiring Conversions for flex fuel in earlier ECU's.

[offshore]

Mate unless you have upped the compression a lot in your build NA E85 won't be worth the hassle to honest

[Micks]

Mate unless you have upped the compression a lot in your build NA E85 won't be worth the hassle to honest

Hey OS doing a Pauline here & asking why? E85 is keener to buy & with the right tune & timing will nett more output on a N/A engine too!

[white lie]

Keener to buy? You mean cheaper?
But you also use more so the savings are evened out, possibly even cancelled given the cheap ulp price at the moment.

It won't make a huge power difference NA unless there's a lot of compression as offshore said.

[offshore]

It will only be of benefit if you tune it only for E85 with a big increase in timing if you have it on flex and you want to use 98 as well then you cant tune as aggressively so whats the point. I mean im no tuning expert thats for sure but its what ive picked up around the traps tuning my car on E85 we couldnt use flex on mine and I certainly wanted to use it but apparently my twin pump set up and tune is to aggressive for the flex tune to work safely so it E85 only for me.

[duke5700]

You can flex tune it, just takes effort. I'm not sure how the interpolation is done, but tune it on 98, tune it on E85 and scale between. I'm going to play with it next month on my ute.

As for aggressiveness, thats the whole point of interpolation, the tune can dial back timing and increase fuel amounts as you transition in your percentage of ethanol. Given that the ethanol content could change, you wouldn't hang it out to dry, on a big motor a few degrees and a bit more fuel won't cost you the earth. If its a stock engine running 14psi, controlling boost level might be your problem, as 98 will only support X (depends on engine) amount of HP per cube. That might be why the shop wasn't keen, if thats the case I wouldnt be either, as it could kill an engine and they don't want the blame no doubt.

Is it easier to just fill with E85.. you bet. Seeing as we have 4 servos now I think, easy enough to keep the tank full. I would want flex if you used the car on long trips and wanted to use 98, or traveled down the bay.

As for doing it on a n/a engine, normal compression ratios, fair bit of over lap it won't have massive gains, but there will be some. I would think a higher dynamic compression ratio engine would see more gain, giving you the opportunity to run more timing. So something like a 230/230 on 116LSA or something, or some of those smaller turbo/blower cams.


It will only be of benefit if you tune it only for E85 with a big increase in timing if you have it on flex and you want to use 98 as well then you cant tune as aggressively so whats the point. I mean im no tuning expert thats for sure but its what ive picked up around the traps tuning my car on E85 we couldnt use flex on mine and I certainly wanted to use it but apparently my twin pump set up and tune is to aggressive for the flex tune to work safely so it E85 only for me.

[offshore]

You can flex tune it, just takes effort. I'm not sure how the interpolation is done, but tune it on 98, tune it on E85 and scale between. I'm going to play with it next month on my ute.

As for aggressiveness, thats the whole point of interpolation, the tune can dial back timing and increase fuel amounts as you transition in your percentage of ethanol. Given that the ethanol content could change, you wouldn't hang it out to dry, on a big motor a few degrees and a bit more fuel won't cost you the earth. If its a stock engine running 14psi, controlling boost level might be your problem, as 98 will only support X (depends on engine) amount of HP per cube. That might be why the shop wasn't keen, if thats the case I wouldnt be either, as it could kill an engine and they don't want the blame no doubt.

Is it easier to just fill with E85.. you bet. Seeing as we have 4 servos now I think, easy enough to keep the tank full. I would want flex if you used the car on long trips and wanted to use 98, or traveled down the bay.

As for doing it on a n/a engine, normal compression ratios, fair bit of over lap it won't have massive gains, but there will be some. I would think a higher dynamic compression ratio engine would see more gain, giving you the opportunity to run more timing. So something like a 230/230 on 116LSA or something, or some of those smaller turbo/blower cams.

Be good to catch up some time wouldnt mind some one else having a look and a drive of mine that knows cars. I wouldnt mind running flex but I keep getting told it just not on for my setup. Its got 550 rwkw and I only use United but its a pain its good for around town but I cant drive it anywhere like down to the south coast etc as there is no United. I havnt been using the Caltex stuff as it varies. If I had flex I could. I still have the VF flex setup on my car its just disconnected and not used.

[duke5700]

550kW is probably your answer there, you would need to be able to scale the boost vs E85 content and that is where it would be difficult(probably impossible with the factory ECU). I wonder if the GTS LSA is flex fuel capable? I don't remember reading it anywhere. It probably doesnt have enough boost in it to worry running on 98, where I would say yours has.

If it is supercharged and you can't easily drop the boost, well you are stuck on E85, if it is turbo and you have some smarts with boost control, if you can forsake a bit of power, I reckon you could implement a flex setup. It would be a matter of dropping the boost down to a 98 capable amount. Then if you have a full tank of E85, set the boost to kill.

Inbox me your setup details etc, we can work out a time to catch up.






Be good to catch up some time wouldnt mind some one else having a look and a drive of mine that knows cars. I wouldnt mind running flex but I keep getting told it just not on for my setup. Its got 550 rwkw and I only use United but its a pain its good for around town but I cant drive it anywhere like down to the south coast etc as there is no United. I havnt been using the Caltex stuff as it varies. If I had flex I could. I still have the VF flex setup on my car its just disconnected and not used.

[wayneus]

Does anyone actually have a dual setup for 98 and E85 with supercharged VE II or VF? From what I have been told it can be done, but very risky...ie Engine may blow as the ethanol sensor doesn't work too well with FI?

[offshore]

Some info here

https://www.hpacademy.com/blog/how-much-more-power-can-you-make-on-e85/

[HOLDAN]

Mate unless you have upped the compression a lot in your build NA E85 won't be worth the hassle to honest

I've had a lot of head work done and compression is around 10.5 (if I recall). I agree not much extra HP to be had but there will be improvements in torque and cooler temps.

[offshore]

Yea Temps are a big advantage and zero knock issues with my setup pushing the supercharger to the max so I'm pretty happy with it. l only get 230km to the tank though but what do you expect with 745 rwhp my only gripe is lack of service stations. I'm going to investigate putting a bigger fuel tank in.

[macca_779]

Torque is the main benefit on stockish comp N/A engines. There is fark all in it for power. Timing wise you don't need to increase it much if at all. In fact in some areas you reduce it. Been there done that