VT II R8 Engine Combo

[Antz_clubbyR8]

Hey Guys,

has come time to start thinking about new engine for my old hsv :) current engine has 160kms has 228/230 ls1 112 cam and supporting mods, vehicle is 6spd (converted) and has 3.9 diff gears with a tru track.

one thing i would like to sort while building new engine is getting some sort of traction control button back as its currently on and isn't fun :( am thinking of using new engine combo wiring loom.

have three options in my head

stroke current engine with good head and cam combo.

ls3 transplant using aftermarket stuff off old engine ls1

or just put a ls7 in.

Some things i am unsure about are. legal issues i may have and how i can deal with these, wiring issues and options for traction control while doing this.
i'm wanting to install and do a lot of the work myself apart from tuning.

goal for vehicle are around 500 rwhp and just a tough N/A car thats a little different or surprising to some :D

Thanks in advance appreciate your input and knowledge

[white lie]

A true 500rwhp NA is a reasonably wild motor. Especially LS1 based.

I would go the LS3, will make the most bang for your buck and you can stroke it later on if you like. An LS7 isn't really a cheap exercise, how deep are the pockets?

[QIKMIK]

I would suggest having a look at the LS3 as well. Check out AQICLS3's ride here (look for Eric's Ride - 2004 Clubsport) (http://www.chevsperformance.com.au/ls1-members-cars/vy---vz) and there used to be a build thread on here for his LS3 conversion. Seems a bit hard to find right now for some reason. Maybe have a chat to Chev's about what was done.

Mick

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

Powertorque also had some very reasonable drive in drive out packages for an ls3 427 stroker. Not sure what prices would be like now the dollar has dropped but its definitely worth the call.

Be prepared though you won't have much use able power after 400 rwhp on the street. Start considering camber kits anb nice wide rims for the wheels. If you find somebody who is good at calculating wheel offsets you should be able to squeeze 285's under the rear. Be prepared to pay for the rubber though if you don't want a one show pony skid car.

[Antz_clubbyR8]

Ideally i would like to spend 15-20 but if around 25 could get a ls7 unsure whats needed on top of engine price, i think it would be abit difference to most old vt's.

When i start adding things up to upgrade old ls1 it quickly gets up around 5-10k so definitely think ls3 is probably the smartest option and probably the cheapest.

Car has camber kit already installed by peddders and has 9.5s on rear but as currently traction controls on and can't be turned off tyres are safe. have no intentions of racing car at strip maybe odd track day here and there thats all.

Will contact powertoque have spoken with them about the 427 ls3 before just not price.

Thanks

[Blue]

Why not install an LSA? Should come in within your budget even allowing for gearbox upgrades.

[Antz_clubbyR8]

Firstly thought lsa wwoukdnt fit under bonnet.

And kinda wanted to stay n/a but lsa's are a good price and would go great id imagine in a manual vt

[Antz_clubbyR8]

Anybody shed abit more light on the lsa pissibilities? And if k-frames lowered will it fit under tge bonnet?

Cheers
Antz

[feistl]

Bolt on a supercharger.... Perhaps a second hand unit.

Gives a nice power boost, good for street driven vehicles and if in the future you decide to upgrade the car you can sell it off easily and make most of your money back. Problem with an engine transplant is its pretty expensive and a lot of work, and you'll never recover your money.

Thats just my opinion...

[Antz_clubbyR8]

Yea have thought about that only problem i have is bolt on supercharger + or - 10 k lsa conversion iv been quoted 18 drive in drive out and engine will have 0kms current has 160 sensors all new etc thats come with create engine.

My engine being first of ls1 has alot of small flaws holding it back currently :(

Not to worried about loosing money as will never sell car and it already is basicly brand new mechanicaly and bushes etc all been replace diff brakes all that stuff. I also plan to do as much of conversion myself as possible just trying to iron out the oh sh#t moment's like engine not fitting under bonnet etc haha :D and 380rwkw in a vt is good prower for good money considering :D

[Micks]

Only a matter of trial fitting there won't be a terrible lot in it. If your lucky only a set of custom mount brackets is required.
Good on you for having a go at it! ;)

[feistl]

No problems,

I guess part on the reason i was suggesting going a supercharger was i have been down this path. I Upgraded my VX to a LSX with a HTV2300 and have spent well into 6 figures yet i am pretty disappointed with the result and regret going down this path. What i have found is its very difficult to get the car perfect, there always seems to be little issues that ruin the driving experience despite me buying the absolute best quality parts and not skimping in any area.

Since starting the project in 2010, i have got to drive the car less than 2500km and at this stage there is a ~40% probability that when i take the car out it will return on a tow truck. Part of problems was caused by work shop choice (the guys i used original are worse than pathetic), but also because its difficult to get a car running reliably when your talking 350rwkw or more.

So i guess what i am saying is at least have a look around at what other cars are affordable before investing that kind of money. Just as an example...
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Holden-Monaro-2004/SSE-AD-2967664/?Cr=11

This Series III Monaro has 89,000km with a 427CI engine with a supercharger thats done 13,000km, Big Harrop Brakes, Custom Suspension etc for $45k ono. If you sell your R8 and add the $20k+ you were going to spend on it you could probably afford that Monaro.

Thats just one of many examples....

Point is, its money you'll never ever get back. You are locking yourself in to owning that car for the rest of your life. I did the same thing, and regret it. Buy something that someone else has already poured lots of money into (Sure, it will need work and there will be minor issues, but thats part of owing a modified vehicle).

Cheers

[Micks]

No problems,

I guess part on the reason i was suggesting going a supercharger was i have been down this path. I Upgraded my VX to a LSX with a HTV2300 and have spent well into 6 figures yet i am pretty disappointed with the result and regret going down this path. What i have found is its very difficult to get the car perfect, there always seems to be little issues that ruin the driving experience despite me buying the absolute best quality parts and not skimping in any area.

Since starting the project in 2010, i have got to drive the car less than 2500km and at this stage there is a ~40% probability that when i take the car out it will return on a tow truck. Part of problems was caused by work shop choice (the guys i used original are worse than pathetic), but also because its difficult to get a car running reliably when your talking 350rwkw or more.

So i guess what i am saying is at least have a look around at what other cars are affordable before investing that kind of money. Just as an example...
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Holden-Monaro-2004/SSE-AD-2967664/?Cr=11

This Series III Monaro has 89,000km with a 427CI engine with a supercharger thats done 13,000km, Big Harrop Brakes, Custom Suspension etc for $45k ono. If you sell your R8 and add the $20k+ you were going to spend on it you could probably afford that Monaro.

Thats just one of many examples....

Point is, its money you'll never ever get back. You are locking yourself in to owning that car for the rest of your life. I did the same thing, and regret it. Buy something that someone else has already poured lots of money into (Sure, it will need work and there will be minor issues, but thats part of owing a modified vehicle).

Cheers

That's very true & in modifying any vehicle there are always compromises or short comings no one ever presumes.
Bloody good advice ;)

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

No problems,

I guess part on the reason i was suggesting going a supercharger was i have been down this path. I Upgraded my VX to a LSX with a HTV2300 and have spent well into 6 figures yet i am pretty disappointed with the result and regret going down this path. What i have found is its very difficult to get the car perfect, there always seems to be little issues that ruin the driving experience despite me buying the absolute best quality parts and not skimping in any area.

Since starting the project in 2010, i have got to drive the car less than 2500km and at this stage there is a ~40% probability that when i take the car out it will return on a tow truck. Part of problems was caused by work shop choice (the guys i used original are worse than pathetic), but also because its difficult to get a car running reliably when your talking 350rwkw or more.

So i guess what i am saying is at least have a look around at what other cars are affordable before investing that kind of money. Just as an example...
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Holden-Monaro-2004/SSE-AD-2967664/?Cr=11

This Series III Monaro has 89,000km with a 427CI engine with a supercharger thats done 13,000km, Big Harrop Brakes, Custom Suspension etc for $45k ono. If you sell your R8 and add the $20k+ you were going to spend on it you could probably afford that Monaro.

Thats just one of many examples....

Point is, its money you'll never ever get back. You are locking yourself in to owning that car for the rest of your life. I did the same thing, and regret it. Buy something that someone else has already poured lots of money into (Sure, it will need work and there will be minor issues, but thats part of owing a modified vehicle).

Cheers

This is a bloody good post by feistl. I might add also with the money you would spend doing up your VT you could probably afford to get something a bit more exotic like a v10 M5, AMG etc. My VT wasn't as wild as what you are looking to do but with all the trial and error and swapping of bits and pieces on the drive train etc I could have bought a second hand M5 that whilst it might not have had the same amount of power would have probably been still just as quick (HP isn't the only thing about being quick), nice to drive everyday and without the quirks of a heavily modified car.

Reading this back I must be getting old... but geeze and M5 would have been nice in the garage... excuse me while I check out Carsales.

[Antz_clubbyR8]

thanks for input guys

all great points but for me personally i have not intention in ever selling car as i have an emotional attachment with the car and in oneway of another i want 500hp at wheels, the car is a weekend car when I'm home i work fifo and don't drive it often,

feistl i really appreciate your input and fully understand what your saying. but for me the car will never be sold and reason for looking into LSA conversion are, good value engine and one would imagine in being standard also good drivability... I have had cars built previously and been disappointed and actually made me sell the car after spending 50k on completed build. sooo I'm trying to see if i can tap into the wealth of knowledge of you guys on here to help me plan the conversion better or even see if it can be done with minimal issues :D like cutting the bonnet!

also the shop that completed the cam combo used wrong oil after being asked not to! i changed the oil asap and found bearing paste n silver oil :( so i believe engine is on it way out.

now i have thought about other options like a ls3 head and cam combo etc but spending 10-13k or more on a ls3 to get power i want id get a lsa crate engine kinda makes more sense to go LSA if it can be done easily enough. it would have a lot better drivability and longevity, breaking parts ummm this always happens with modified cars :( but the car has 6pds 3.9 diff gears and a tru-track sooo straight of the batt it will break CV's but easily replaced with standard to keep them the weak point as mentioned car is rarely driven and i by no means drive it hard compared to some

if you can't tell already i like my car to be differant hence why i like my old vt :P everybody around Brisbane has ve/vfs and i'd much rather have a vt and be faster than most :P and less the price

Appreciate the input guys and please keep it coming :)

[Jason01]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the "wrong oil" and what do you consider is the correct oil? Is your current engine using lots of oil or making more noise than usual for these things that would suggest it's really on the way out?

Best wishes,
Jason.





also the shop that completed the cam combo used wrong oil after being asked not to! i changed the oil asap and found bearing paste n silver oil :( so i believe engine is on it way out.

[Antz_clubbyR8]

hi Jason,

Wrong may be the incorrect wording :P different would be better haha but i believe it was 0w 40 or 50 which isn't unusual by any means. After this is it had a slight knock and noisy valve train with silver paste in oil and sump plug :( i usually run 15w 60 in it and have never had issue they put this oil in and oil looked very sad may just be by chance or something to do with cam install and new oil pump installed don't know, has done 160ks.

[Jason01]

I couldn't see the oil being a problem, despite the thicker is better mentality usually espoused on here a quality 0W40/5W40 is more than adequate protection wise, and the valve train noise which isn't uncommon for these things standard can be amplified with a more aggressive camshaft depending on the lobe profile used. For no logical reason whatsoever LS engines seem to be a bit sensitive to oils with regard to engine/valve train noise, I have one LS that's quieter on Edge 5W30 than on other 10W30's, 15W40 and even a 15W50 that I have used in it.

Unless you really want to upgrade for more power (let's face it, who on here doesn't), I'd be inclined to keep an eye on it and check again at your next oil change, if it's not using oil and the engine noise doesn't get any worse it's probably fine, 160 000km isn't huge mileage for an LS. I pulled one apart at about 205 000km when I crashed the car, I don't know what oil it had been run on for it's first 160 000km but I would assume 5W or 10W30. In the last 45 000km I've owned it, it's had everything from 5W30 to 20W50 in it and other than an oil leak, a bit of varnish from the oil and an intermittently ticking lifter, there was nothing wrong with it. I wanted to freshen it up and step up the power a bit but could easily have fixed the oil leak and left it alone. Good luck with yours whatever you end up doing.

Best wishes,
Jason.

[Antz_clubbyR8]

at this stage it looks like i will be going against the LSA option and leaning more towards a 427 ls3 build with mild cam and abit of comp which was my initial choice. But was abit side tracked buy the price and power outputs of the LSA out of the box.