Oil pump and Timing chain replacement

[FrangaFry]

hi folks, looking at doing a rebuild of my Ls1 in the not too distant future and slowly collecting bits ....

Keen to replace the oil pump and timing chain whilst it's apart. As usual looking for some folks thoughts on direction.

Have done the usual search but this seems to be one of those 'how long is a bit of string' subjects.

The general consensus seems to be no need for double row timing chain as it's not going to be a killer build (just a freshen up with a few tougher parts). So what would folk recommend? Have done some poking around and a double seems to be round the same price as a good single (LS7) or am I missing something? I also note that clearance can be an issue with double (SLP do a pre clearanced oil pump yeah?)

Any gotchas I need to know about? What are you guys using (part number would be great) and where did you get them from?

As always, thanks for your thoughts

[FrangaFry]

.... No one? *grin*

[IJ.]

Moroso HV/HP pump in the big engine, L98 Pump in the 5.7, stock Holden chains in both.

[Toddler78]

just put a LS2 timing chain in, it will be plenty strong enough

[FrangaFry]

Thanks guys, appreciate the advice

[blackvussii]

When I installed heads and cam on my ls1 I put in a ported and shimmed ls6 pump and a ls2 chain which have gone great for 60k.

Building a ls3 now and going to use a C5R chain and either my ls6 pump or a Mellings hv or hp

[FrangaFry]

Hi guys, just a quick clarification, the LS2 chain and gears are a package yeah so these come as a set and no need to buy separately (don't need to get gears specifically for an LS1)

With the pump (l98 or ls6) are there any gotchas - do I need to get a specific O ring or seal etc or all this also comes as a package? For a nuffy like me I get a little gun shy with this sort of stuff so just need to make sure I don't F it up .....

Thanks as always for the advice and support.

Cheers

Franga

[blackvussii]

Ls2 chain fits on the ls1 sprockets, no need to change anything. Standard o-ring on the pick up for the ls6 pump, I presume l98 is the same. If you are doing the work yourself with the engine in car the pick-up bolt is a little tricky. Have to be careful not to drop it in the sump

[Toddler78]

From Memory, the LS2 chain is the standard replacement now for the LS1 ( ie ls1 chain does not exist anymore)
use the standard ls1 gears as the LS2 gears are single bolt(?) and wont bolt up to your cam.

as Black said if doing it yourself make sure you don't drop the pickup bolt, and also be VERY VERY careful that you don't pinch thepick up Oring other wise no oil pressure for you

[beno]

Ive just done a oil pump in a L76 (6L) and im just in mooroolbark. If you get stuck, I will be able to pop over to help &/OR PM me.
I did remove the motor tho so I didnt risk dropping the oil pickup bolt.
Another gotcha is the harmonic balancer.. it can be tough to remove as it probs hasnt been removed in the last 14yrs.. there are cool tools made by G&G technics that are specific for the LS1 balancer, it takes 2mins to remove it but it costs around $180 for it. IMO, its worth getting this to avoid any damage to the crank when trying to pull the balancer.

[FrangaFry]

Howdy folks, i'm back with some more stupid questions.

Recently picked up a new oil pump, so all good there; Want to swing my attention to timing chain/set. Called a few GM dealers for local prices on relevant parts etc and also started looking up what's on offer on-line.

Is it just me or am I missing something:

Part Number: Description GMH Dealer
12589016 RETAINER-CM/SHF $86.48
11515756 BOLT/SCREW CM/SHF $16.52
12646386 CHAIN ASM-TMG $63.14
12552953 SPROCKET-CM/SHF $102.57
12556582 SPROCKET-CR/SHF $49.87
12588670 DAMPENER ASM-TMG CHAIN $141.28

Parts sourced from the states (even with USD + delivery) just seem so much cheaper (I mean, the dampner for instance is like $16.99USD, where as local $141.28AUD - am I getting something wrong?). Are these inferior quality stuff (Summit, Jegs, GMPartsonline etc); Do I need to double/triple check part numbers as they could be different in the sates than locally.

I am a nuffy guys, so be gentle....

Cheers,

[Toddler78]

welcome to the dealer rim job.

being a ls1 you wont need the retainers anyway - just the chain

[blackvussii]

Dont bother with holden, their prices are beyond extortionate. I was quoted 1100 for lifters that I ended up getting for 125 from the states.
Summit are good as they have a freight calculator that is pretty reasonable but I use pace performance as Greg the guy I have ordered through uses usps for freight who are the cheapest. Contact greg@paceperformance.com. If you have the gm part numbers then summit, pace, hinson, etc are the go.
Think I paid about 45 for the chain, like toddler said dont worry the rest of it. If the sprockets are worn they should be about $80 total

[ls2 cruiser]

Ls1's don't have a tensioner or damper like the ls2 set up and L98. The 2 bolt holes are not there for the plastic damper like the ls2. Don't know what the retainer is. What about a gasket for the timing cover. The balancer bolt can be reused. I do anyhow. Just put some blue max silicon around under the bolt head. What about a new front main seal as well. You should replace it unless it is new.

[BLACKVE]

I know the local price on tensioner is technically a HSV part so the $$$$

I've noticed that postage from US seems to have gone up latley( I bought parts from us 5 years ago)

Some parts were cheaper from GM Motorsport

[FrangaFry]

What about a new front main seal as well. You should replace it unless it is new.

Good call on the front mail seal cruiser (timing cover gasket); Should I go the standard GM gasket or go Fel Pro?

Cheers,

[ls2 cruiser]

Felpro is all made in china now. The timing cover gasket by felpro is ok. The front main seal is different to the timing cover gasket. The front main seal is a round gasket that taps into the timing cover and seals the crank shaft. I think I would use a gm seal for the front main.

[Jason01]

If it's an LS1 with two threaded holes in the front of the block near the timing chain it is likely an LS6 block and they are for a plastic dampener. Those dampeners are not readily available anymore and are quite expensive but you can get them from Katech in the states if you want to spend the money. The LS2 dampeners have a different distance between the bolt holes, are more readily available and are much, much cheaper but won't fit an LS1/LS6 block without using a Trickflow adapter which you can buy. The guys in the states seem to think they're worthwhile, I hope this info helps you.

Best wishes,
Jason.


Ls1's don't have a tensioner or damper like the ls2 set up and L98. The 2 bolt holes are not there for the plastic damper like the ls2. Don't know what the retainer is. What about a gasket for the timing cover. The balancer bolt can be reused. I do anyhow. Just put some blue max silicon around under the bolt head. What about a new front main seal as well. You should replace it unless it is new.

[Tre-Cool]

I did a cam change in a old ls1 for a mate Monday/Tuesday after work. luckily the motor is out as I put a new timing chain and oil pump on too.

I say lucky because for some reason the oil pickup tube would not go into the oil pump without me having to flip the motor over and take the sump off to loosen the pickup tube bolt on the crank plash plate, the new oring/oil pump combination was just too tight for it go straight in at the old angle.

[XSNRGY]

ls1's don't have a tensioner or damper like the ls2 set up and l98. The 2 bolt holes are not there for the plastic damper like the ls2. Don't know what the retainer is. What about a gasket for the timing cover. The balancer bolt can be reused. I do anyhow. Just put some blue max silicon around under the bolt head. What about a new front main seal as well. You should replace it unless it is new.
never reuse balancer bolts. They are a stretch bolt (tty) and must be replaced. The only exception is an arp pulley bolt.

[XSNRGY]

hi folks, looking at doing a rebuild of my Ls1 in the not too distant future and slowly collecting bits ....

Keen to replace the oil pump and timing chain whilst it's apart. As usual looking for some folks thoughts on direction.

Have done the usual search but this seems to be one of those 'how long is a bit of string' subjects.

The general consensus seems to be no need for double row timing chain as it's not going to be a killer build (just a freshen up with a few tougher parts). So what would folk recommend? Have done some poking around and a double seems to be round the same price as a good single (LS7) or am I missing something? I also note that clearance can be an issue with double (SLP do a pre clearanced oil pump yeah?)

Any gotchas I need to know about? What are you guys using (part number would be great) and where did you get them from?

As always, thanks for your thoughts

A lot of great info here, and some not so.
You don't need a double row chain kit, waste of time.
In fact having a double row chain means spacing out the oil pump which, unless you remove the sump and move the pick-up tube so it fits 'square' back into the pump,
causes the o-ring between the pick-up tube and the pump to be 'pinched' on one side which could cause a lack of sealing and suck in air - very bad.
I had to have the front cover of my new oil pump milled down and the inside of the timing cover heavily die grinded to clear the double row chain - an unnecessary extra expense.
I recommend a new Hi flow Hi pressure oil pump, a GM Performance heavy duty single row chain and gear kit.
Check Ebay USA for Performance LS1 parts and you will be there all night drooling.
The crank pulley is a pain to remove and you need a longer bolt to pull the pulley back on too as you will damage the threads from the factory pulley bolt being too short to start it.
The NEW pulley bolt needs to be torqued to a certain figure and then angled torqued to 140 degrees - that is a mission to do as you have to stop the crank from turning too.
It is actually a big job to do properly.
A lot of people don't realise that the rotor drive of the oil pump is a floating type so you cant just slap the pump onto the engine, you need to use feeler blades to have the pump body 'concentric' to the crank before you tighten down the pump mounting bolts.
If you don't do this you run the risk of the drive actually eating into the pump body - I have read MANY an LS1 rebuild book and there are so many of these types of tips in them, I highly recommend you purchase a couple - absolutely essential and terrific reading!
There are no dowels on the LS1 covers so you have to get the front cover perfectly in line otherwise the crank seal will leak.
There is a tool you can buy but it is expensive.
Depending on the KM's of your engine you can reuse the cover 'gasket'.
Its not a gasket really its more of an aluminium plate with silicone rubber bonded to it for the sealing.
And remember to put a dab of sealant ONLY in the bottom corners where the sump, block and front cover meet.
Have fun.

[Jason01]

Rollmaster in Australia make a very high quality single chain, it's the equivalent or better than the latest and greatest C7-R seamless roller chain being marketed in the U.S at the moment and much cheaper, have a chat to them.

You DON'T need a high volume oil pump unless you plan to run big clearances and very high RPM.

The U.S guys are also very particular about not using the crank bolt, ARP or otherwise to pull the balancer on, it can easily damage the crank threads according to them. I don't know from experience myself but there's a current thread on LS1 Tech with a guy that jammed his ARP bolt in the crank using it to pull the balancer on but fortunately managed to drill it out and save the crank, not without a fight though. They recommend to get the proper tool or alternatively a long enough appropriately threaded rod with washers, nuts and use that so your not stressing the crank threads as much.

Best wishes,
Jason.




A lot of great info here, and some not so.
You don't need a double row chain kit, waste of time.
In fact having a double row chain means spacing out the oil pump which, unless you remove the sump and move the pick-up tube so it fits 'square' back into the pump,
causes the o-ring between the pick-up tube and the pump to be 'pinched' on one side which could cause a lack of sealing and suck in air - very bad.
I had to have the front cover of my new oil pump milled down and the inside of the timing cover heavily die grinded to clear the double row chain - an unnecessary extra expense.
I recommend a new Hi flow Hi pressure oil pump, a GM Performance heavy duty single row chain and gear kit.
Check Ebay USA for Performance LS1 parts and you will be there all night drooling.
The crank pulley is a pain to remove and you need a longer bolt to pull the pulley back on too as you will damage the threads from the factory pulley bolt being too short to start it.
The NEW pulley bolt needs to be torqued to a certain figure and then angled torqued to 140 degrees - that is a mission to do as you have to stop the crank from turning too.
It is actually a big job to do properly.
A lot of people don't realise that the rotor drive of the oil pump is a floating type so you cant just slap the pump onto the engine, you need to use feeler blades to have the pump body 'concentric' to the crank before you tighten down the pump mounting bolts.
If you don't do this you run the risk of the drive actually eating into the pump body - I have read MANY an LS1 rebuild book and there are so many of these types of tips in them, I highly recommend you purchase a couple - absolutely essential and terrific reading!
There are no dowels on the LS1 covers so you have to get the front cover perfectly in line otherwise the crank seal will leak.
There is a tool you can buy but it is expensive.
Depending on the KM's of your engine you can reuse the cover 'gasket'.
Its not a gasket really its more of an aluminium plate with silicone rubber bonded to it for the sealing.
And remember to put a dab of sealant ONLY in the bottom corners where the sump, block and front cover meet.
Have fun.