United E85 in Canberra

[offshore]

As of a few days ago we now only have 1 store selling E85 in Fyshwick as the store in Sutton no longer sells it according to them and the pump is shut. Now the price at the remaining store jumped the price up from 1.16 to 1.33 overnight. I rang United today left a message trying to find out if they intend selling it at other locations if not I'll have to go with flex and tune with the variable Caltex flex fuel or just go back to 98.

[Devil CV8]

There's no difference than normal fuel then. Although just up the roadingoburn fuel starts at104.9 fore10

[team illucid]

Considering Ultimate is 1.39, 1.33 is unacceptable.

[offshore]

Considering Ultimate is 1.39, 1.33 is unacceptable.

Yea he spun some crap to me about international prices but it's bullshit as all the ethanol united uses is from saugum crops grown in Australia and it just happened to increase after the other one shut down.

[HSVREDSLED]

I got some E85 from a United the other day, and ULP was 121.9 and E 85 was $121.9. Whilst my Punjabi is not the best, when I complained he said something about, "yes, yes, E85 fuel very good..." so I just walked out never to return. I have a heap of options where I live.

[Devil CV8]

There's no difference than normal fuel then. Although just up the roadingoburn fuel starts at104.9 fore10

Damn autocorrect. I meant in Goulburn fuel this morning was still 104.9.
This Arvo the cheapest is 113.9

[Woodchukka]

Yea he spun some crap to me about international prices but it's bullshit as all the ethanol united uses is from saugum crops grown in Australia and it just happened to increase after the other one shut down.
Like the Woolies next to used Costco fuel in Canberra. Costco opens price goes down Costco closes price goes up. They are damn robbers.

[Maccas]

Yeah i have been running e85 in my wagon for a while love the stuff more response etc, but when i went to put a tank in the other day it was more expensive than 91, only 1 cent but still u use 1/4 of a tank more than 98, and 98 is still only around 1.39, e85 was i think 1.32 and 91 was 1.31.

ripping us off!

[macca_779]

Yeah i have been running e85 in my wagon for a while love the stuff more response etc, but when i went to put a tank in the other day it was more expensive than 91, only 1 cent but still u use 1/4 of a tank more than 98, and 98 is still only around 1.39, e85 was i think 1.32 and 91 was 1.31.

ripping us off!

Use Eflex. It's more suitable for you anyway with the low stock SCR and you'll get better mileage out of it due to the lower ethanol content too. It's always cheaper than 91

[Woodchukka]

Yeah i have been running e85 in my wagon for a while love the stuff more response etc, but when i went to put a tank in the other day it was more expensive than 91, only 1 cent but still u use 1/4 of a tank more than 98, and 98 is still only around 1.39, e85 was i think 1.32 and 91 was 1.31.

ripping us off!
They have just realised that it is becoming a popular performance item and are charging accordingly.

[offshore]

Well we are stuffed here in Canberra now. Just back from the only E85 station left and they had run out and they couldn't tell me when the next load was being delivered.

[duke5700]

Use Eflex to get around, just take it easy until you can retune it to suit.

[offshore]

Just ordered one of these drums PowerPlus E85+ 205L

http://www.vpw.com.au/category_images/1_5570_400_400.jpg

[macca_779]

Bet that cost a fortune

[offshore]

Yea 460 or so hopefully I'll only have to get them occasionally. I might go back to 98 some time this year as there just isn't enough places for longer trips like up in the snowy or south coast. And apparently I can't run flex with my twin pump return fuel system at my power level with the factory pcm. And I've asked about it but I'm told can't be done. I've still got the factory VF flex sensor just disconnected so I can't really get it tuned with Caltex Eflex. So I'm stuck 98 or pure E85

[wayneus]

Yea 460 or so hopefully I'll only have to get them occasionally. I might go back to 98 some time this year as there just isn't enough places for longer trips like up in the snowy or south coast. And apparently I can't run flex with my twin pump return fuel system at my power level with the factory pcm. And I've asked about it but I'm told can't be done. I've still got the factory VF flex sensor just disconnected so I can't really get it tuned with Caltex Eflex. So I'm stuck 98 or pure E85

Why did that drum cost so much? E85 is meant to be cheap, that price looks crazy expensive...

On another note, I filled up today on EFlex and from memory it was $1.13 or $1.16 (can't remember)...but either way a couple of weeks ago it was $0.96 per litre. Caltex should be fluctuating the price like that...as it is made up of at least 70-85% ethanol...

[macca_779]

Yea 460 or so hopefully I'll only have to get them occasionally. I might go back to 98 some time this year as there just isn't enough places for longer trips like up in the snowy or south coast. And apparently I can't run flex with my twin pump return fuel system at my power level with the factory pcm. And I've asked about it but I'm told can't be done. I've still got the factory VF flex sensor just disconnected so I can't really get it tuned with Caltex Eflex. So I'm stuck 98 or pure E85

Thats BS that it can't be made to run on the Flex Fuel Sensor. Thats poor system setup there to not be able to utilise factory features. More likely they can't be stuffed making it work

[offshore]

Y
Thats BS that it can't be made to run on the Flex Fuel Sensor. Thats poor system setup there to not be able to utilise factory features. More likely they can't be stuffed making it work

Yep that maybe so but stuck in Canberra and using the forum sponsor tuner and it's what I've been told. Can't be bothered taking it to Sydney or Melbourne at the moment got other priorities.

[offshore]

Why did that drum cost so much? E85 is meant to be cheap, that price looks crazy expensive...

On another note, I filled up today on EFlex and from memory it was $1.13 or $1.16 (can't remember)...but either way a couple of weeks ago it was $0.96 per litre. Caltex should be fluctuating the price like that...as it is made up of at least 70-85% ethanol...

The ones in the drums cost more there not just normal pump fuel poorer into a drum. Some of them are near $1000 a drum. Anyway if anyone knows a cheaper place let me know.

[saaz]

Caltex Nicholls had E85 last time I was there, and it shows up on the Caltex website. Kambah caltex as well. But that won't help much as it is the Eflex. Fewer places than I thought might have it.

[duke5700]

EFlex barely varies anyway, just get Gentech to retune to suit, they will just need to pull a bit of the set to kill out of the tune. As the E85 amount drops the mixtures richen, but it becomes more prone to pinging as the octane level drops. So you will need to pull some timing.

[offshore]

Oh well cleared that up with him i can use flex for different variations of E85 just not between 98 and E85 some how he still thought i wanted to use 98 as well.

Anyway Fyshwick is back on today so we haven't run out yet.

Talked to a VPW rep while at the tuner today and he said the United near him in Sydney is ending its E85 supply aswell so not good seems to be going backwards now

[macca_779]

Oh well cleared that up with him i can use flex for different variations of E85 just not between 98 and E85 some how he still thought i wanted to use 98 as well.

Anyway Fyshwick is back on today so we haven't run out yet.

Talked to a VPW rep while at the tuner today and he said the United near him in Sydney is ending its E85 supply aswell so not good seems to be going backwards now

Must be a pretty flexible tune set lean to give scope to add fuel on United and come back to zero on eflex #sarcasim. Sure fuel trims will account for a little bit of variation but they will only add fuel in the top load/rpm sector not take it away which is what you want like they can in the lower zones. EFlex to United represents an 18% variation (Eflex 74% United 92%) in ethanol content (I've tested it). It's hardly a subtle difference.

You'll run very rich on eflex as your tune stands. I wouldn't be giving it to much shit. But that's me what would I know. GenTech are "professionals"

[offshore]

Yea i hear you i can only go on what others tell me as im not a tuner. Trying to learn more though via horsepower academy online courses which seem pretty good.

[macca_779]

Yea i hear you i can only go on what others tell me as im not a tuner. Trying to learn more though via horsepower academy online courses which seem pretty good.

Got to learn somewhere. Those courses are probably good for a generic overview to get you on your feet and start asking questions. Thats the key to this gig. You don't know what you don't know, and once you start to get into it a bit you start to ask the right questions. Thats when the real knowledge starts to come. I've been tuning LSx's for 9 years. Still don't know it all and anyone that says they do probably doesn't know sh1t. For what its worth I'm mostly self taught. Learnt a lot from reading EFI Live specific tutorials and tuner testimonials in the beginning and talking to other tuners. It can be a back and forth kind of deal. You learn something, then go back to its basics, to then go deeper into it. The other aspect is contextualising it for the software you use. They'll all get you there, but they're all different too. Pick software that has good support. For LSx's you can't beat EFI LIVE. The forums are far better utilised with relevant info.

[wayneus]

I wish there was an easy way to run either eFlex/e85 or 98 when you can't get the Flex fuel...in theory (in Series II and VFs) it should be possible. But I think tuners are worried about a mix of 98 and Flex/e85. Apparently in a Supercharged or Turbo charged motor the ethanol sensor isn't good enough to determine the percentages and then it is next to impossible to tune???

I was really hoping to run Flex as much as possible and only run 98 if that was the last resort...I guess if they tune with dual spark tables, it is somewhat possible, but the user needs to go easy when there is a dilution of either fuel?

On another note, Offshore, can't you take your 200l drum and fill it at the United ( a lot cheaper to fill), or does the flex fuel you buy in bulk have a different ethanol content?

[offshore]

Yea I can fill the drum up with United E85 but its a bit of a hassle without a ute which I dont have yet! Get the car back this arvo just had swaybars and bushes put in first thing after i pick it up is to head for the Servo hopefully its still got some. It did yesterday and I filled up a 20 litre jerry just in case.

[wayneus]

I haven't thought about doing swaybars or bushes, pretty happy with the stock ride on my VF. Does it make a big difference?

[offshore]

I can tell you right now its made a huge difference. Ive got the KW coilovers as well but had to wait ages for the bush kits to be made before i could get the sway bars on. I also did the rear crossmember bush inserts to help with the squiring under acceleration it feels alot better now sits pretty flat and straight.

[Micks]

I wish there was an easy way to run either eFlex/e85 or 98 when you can't get the Flex fuel...in theory (in Series II and VFs) it should be possible. But I think tuners are worried about a mix of 98 and Flex/e85. Apparently in a Supercharged or Turbo charged motor the ethanol sensor isn't good enough to determine the percentages and then it is next to impossible to tune???

I was really hoping to run Flex as much as possible and only run 98 if that was the last resort...I guess if they tune with dual spark tables, it is somewhat possible, but the user needs to go easy when there is a dilution of either fuel?


On another note, Offshore, can't you take your 200l drum and fill it at the United ( a lot cheaper to fill), or does the flex fuel you buy in bulk have a different ethanol content?

If that's the case & your worried about the ethanol content. You can easily add a guage to monitor it

[HazzaHSV]

Sorry I haven't been on the forums for a while. Between work, family and drag racing I have been very busy.

The reason why I am not prepared to use the factory flex sensor for a mix between fuels, is this car is making over 550rwkw. It only takes one discrepancy in fuel delivery at this power level for things to turn ugly very quickly. Yes the standard flex sensor can certainly be used to change from 98 to e fuels in most cases for most 'normal' cars however we treat it as a case by case basis, and in this particular case the best advice VCM and Gentech can give the owner is not to rely on it for his 550rwkw pride and joy. Our opinion, including advice received by VCM and others, is that in this point in time there is too much risk involved and Gentech pride ourselves on providing dependability and reliability to all our performance work first and foremost.

For an N/A car making 200-300rwkw, I have no problems fully utilising the flex setup, but for this car we would prefer to deliver this level of power with plenty of assurance that in our minds we are doing everything in the best interests of the customer. I am aware that other workshops and other owners might be prepared to go down other paths but that doesn't include VCM or ourselves.

Also there seems to have been a misunderstanding. I didn't suggest the use of the sensor would guarantee switching between the different variants of e fuels at this power level, or that the tune could magically change to be optimal on either United E85 or Caltex eflex when there could be variances of up to 25% in ethanol content. And I also would never advise that the current tune would be fine to run in anger with a different fuel to that which it was tuned with (eflex).

Regards, Kit

[offshore]

Thanks Kit

I'm really happy with the tune you have done with the current setup so no issues here.

Also can report the sway bars and bush kits sorted the handling out well it handles the acceleration better now it doesn't seem to move around as much and tracks fairly straight

[offshore]

My drum of E85 turned up today. I notice they also supply E98 for about $50 extra anyway still managed to get fuel from the Fyshwick United servo today so the drum will only be used if they runout at times. Might go to Sydney to take it down the drags soon so I'll take a couple of Jerry's with me. Be good to see what it does I've got the throttle control a bit sorted now never really had to bother with that in the past so much with turbo 4wd cars.