Q's on setting up VX SS for Circuit/Track work

[JBonDSS]

Looking for advice on suspension setup for a VX SS for track work, not road reg'd
It is for my brother, he bought the VX SS off me after i took the eng & g.box for my WRX ;P

I have busy playing with my Gc8 WRX for the last 5years so have been out of the loop on what been working for the VT-VZ

What kg springs are people running F/R
Sway bar sizes

also due to the weight being higher than the WRX what brake pads are people running

What width tyres can you can before you start rolling & cutting

Cheers
James

[Hqheath]

Interested to here people's thoughts on this as I have a Vt 5 ltr to play with on the track, although it will be street rego'd as well.

[feistl]

Have a search as there are a number of track day threads which already have some great info.

Here are a couple of questions which will dictate what mods you do.

Firstly, (and theres nothing wrong with either answer), do you want a fast one lap car for a bit of fun or do you want a consistent car that you can learn how to drive properly?

Having done and been track controller for a lot of track days at Sandown and Philip Island i often see two distinct types of cars/drivers. Firstly, there are the guys who just want to go as fast as possible for a single lap for bragging rights. They usually start with making big power (usually by adding a turbo) but neglect things like oil coolers, brakes etc. The second type of car/driver is someone who focuses on the reliability side, so starting with massive brakes, good tyres, oil coolers etc. The advantage of this method is although the car wont be "fast", it should be capable of doing the same lap time lap after lap. This means you can focus on improving your driving ability because the car will react the same way every time.

A good example of this is braking... One of the biggest areas you can improve lap times is your braking points. If your running normal brakes, they are going to suffer brake fade after a lap or two, which means that you need to adjust when you brake to accommodate this change in performance. This means you cant focus on finding that extra meter or 1/10th second. I upgraded from Harrop 4 piston brakes to AP 6 piston and there was almost as big improvement as upgrading from the standard HSV 2 piston PBR brakes to the Harrop 4 originally.

By using AP racing calipers/rotors i don't experience ANY brake fade, so every time i go into a corner i can focus on finding that extra 1/10th and become a better driver. Whereas when i was running the harrop 4 piston brakes they suffered brake fade which meant i had to brake earlier each time.

Same goes for engine performance... If you go an make big power and dont improve oil/coolant cooling then the engine will start to suffer after a couple of laps which means you need to have a "cool down lap". This disrupts your flow and will change your top end speed down the straight which in turn changes the braking points (which then effects my first point).

Soooooo.....

My advice would be get yourself really decent brakes to start with. Ideally get some air ducting to try and keep the rotor temperatures down. Call Matt at Race Brakes in Sydney and ask for a set of racing pads to suit the brakes you end up running (they are a better compound for track work but DONT work when cold, which means you'll need to change them over on the morning of the track day).
Get a decent set of semi slick tyres (I like the Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec, as they are designed for heavier cars and have a lot more tread depth than other semi slicks. Although they dont offer as much grip as some other choices, they'll last ages meaning its economical to do track days. Also get them nitrogen filled as this makes a big difference at the track).

As for your original question regarding suspension...

In the rear i went with King Springs 46HHD which is a heavy heavy track day spring. I paired that up with a set of Koni adjustable shocks, and a 4 point adjustable camber kit. I also went the biggest sway bar possible (cant remember the size).
For the front i went with a custom strut tower from Wholesale Suspension using Koni adjustable shocks and i cant remember the spring). You want a strut tower that gives you as much negative camber as possible. The standard strut can go to around 1.2 degrees negative camber before the tyre hits the strut, whereas the wholesale suspension one can go to about 4.0 degrees. I found (from memory) i was using around -1.7 to -2 degrees in the front depending on which track i was using.

Again i went with the heaviest adjustable sway bar and a strut brace.

For engine mods, i would basically just be doing OTR/Exhaust/Tune and possibly diff gears, but focus the rest of your cash on reliability. EG mainlube oil for the gearbox/diff, oil cooler for power steering and engine oil. Id also personally spend some money on a race seat, harness and harness mounting bar on the rear parcel shelf. You'd be surprised when sitting lower and being more supported does to your driving ability. Not sure if he still uses the forum but have a look at HSV Listy thread with his VX GTS. Again he was running a pretty much stock standard engine (few mods) but did a lot of work on proper rear wings, cooling and suspension setup.

The thing is, although the car may not be the fastest on the track there will ALWAYS be someone faster with more money. What you'll find more enjoyable over the long term is improving your skill set and becoming a better driver. You cant do that with a car that can only handle one or two hot laps at a time.

Finally, spend some money getting professional lessons. When i was working at Driver Dynamics we always had a few race drivers on hand (Tony Dalberto used to work with us a lot) for anyone that wanted lessons (Didnt cost anything). It always amazed me but no one ever seemed to use their services... I on the other hand had them in the car for most of the day trying to teach me as much as possible.

So yeah, as i mentioned at teh start of the post go and have a look through some of the other threads on setting up track cars. Theres been at least 4 good threads ive participated in where this info has been covered in more depth.

Cheers,

[HSV Listy]

Been sold but a good summery of the work I got done on the car.
Never was a high power car.

That was done over seven or so years.
Power steering cooler, dial up what ever neg camber you can get on stock where's, semi slicks, ap racing brakes for starters.
Can go mutable directions from there depending budget or direction.
Great summery as above too. Well said.

Have a read. http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?168049-HSV-VX-GTS-300-Street-and-Circuit-car-Listys-GTS

[Smitty]

The thing is, although the car may not be the fastest on the track there will ALWAYS be someone faster with more money. ...................,

as a circuit racer who started with his VX SS road car who has graduated to a purpose built race car, this is the No1 truth in motorsport!

When i go to the track there are guys there who have spent more on a engine than I have spent on my whole car :driving:

[seldo]

Have a search as there are a number of track day threads which already have some great info.

Here are a couple of questions which will dictate what mods you do.

Firstly, (and theres nothing wrong with either answer), do you want a fast one lap car for a bit of fun or do you want a consistent car that you can learn how to drive properly?

Having done and been track controller for a lot of track days at Sandown and Philip Island i often see two distinct types of cars/drivers. Firstly, there are the guys who just want to go as fast as possible for a single lap for bragging rights. They usually start with making big power (usually by adding a turbo) but neglect things like oil coolers, brakes etc. The second type of car/driver is someone who focuses on the reliability side, so starting with massive brakes, good tyres, oil coolers etc. The advantage of this method is although the car wont be "fast", it should be capable of doing the same lap time lap after lap. This means you can focus on improving your driving ability because the car will react the same way every time.

A good example of this is braking... One of the biggest areas you can improve lap times is your braking points. If your running normal brakes, they are going to suffer brake fade after a lap or two, which means that you need to adjust when you brake to accommodate this change in performance. This means you cant focus on finding that extra meter or 1/10th second. I upgraded from Harrop 4 piston brakes to AP 6 piston and there was almost as big improvement as upgrading from the standard HSV 2 piston PBR brakes to the Harrop 4 originally.

By using AP racing calipers/rotors i don't experience ANY brake fade, so every time i go into a corner i can focus on finding that extra 1/10th and become a better driver. Whereas when i was running the harrop 4 piston brakes they suffered brake fade which meant i had to brake earlier each time.

Same goes for engine performance... If you go an make big power and dont improve oil/coolant cooling then the engine will start to suffer after a couple of laps which means you need to have a "cool down lap". This disrupts your flow and will change your top end speed down the straight which in turn changes the braking points (which then effects my first point).

Soooooo.....

My advice would be get yourself really decent brakes to start with. Ideally get some air ducting to try and keep the rotor temperatures down. Call Matt at Race Brakes in Sydney and ask for a set of racing pads to suit the brakes you end up running (they are a better compound for track work but DONT work when cold, which means you'll need to change them over on the morning of the track day).
Get a decent set of semi slick tyres (I like the Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec, as they are designed for heavier cars and have a lot more tread depth than other semi slicks. Although they dont offer as much grip as some other choices, they'll last ages meaning its economical to do track days. Also get them nitrogen filled as this makes a big difference at the track).

As for your original question regarding suspension...

In the rear i went with King Springs 46HHD which is a heavy heavy track day spring. I paired that up with a set of Koni adjustable shocks, and a 4 point adjustable camber kit. I also went the biggest sway bar possible (cant remember the size).
For the front i went with a custom strut tower from Wholesale Suspension using Koni adjustable shocks and i cant remember the spring). You want a strut tower that gives you as much negative camber as possible. The standard strut can go to around 1.2 degrees negative camber before the tyre hits the strut, whereas the wholesale suspension one can go to about 4.0 degrees. I found (from memory) i was using around -1.7 to -2 degrees in the front depending on which track i was using.

Again i went with the heaviest adjustable sway bar and a strut brace.

For engine mods, i would basically just be doing OTR/Exhaust/Tune and possibly diff gears, but focus the rest of your cash on reliability. EG mainlube oil for the gearbox/diff, oil cooler for power steering and engine oil. Id also personally spend some money on a race seat, harness and harness mounting bar on the rear parcel shelf. You'd be surprised when sitting lower and being more supported does to your driving ability. Not sure if he still uses the forum but have a look at HSV Listy thread with his VX GTS. Again he was running a pretty much stock standard engine (few mods) but did a lot of work on proper rear wings, cooling and suspension setup.

The thing is, although the car may not be the fastest on the track there will ALWAYS be someone faster with more money. What you'll find more enjoyable over the long term is improving your skill set and becoming a better driver. You cant do that with a car that can only handle one or two hot laps at a time.

Finally, spend some money getting professional lessons. When i was working at Driver Dynamics we always had a few race drivers on hand (Tony Dalberto used to work with us a lot) for anyone that wanted lessons (Didnt cost anything). It always amazed me but no one ever seemed to use their services... I on the other hand had them in the car for most of the day trying to teach me as much as possible.

So yeah, as i mentioned at teh start of the post go and have a look through some of the other threads on setting up track cars. Theres been at least 4 good threads ive participated in where this info has been covered in more depth.

Cheers,
Excellent advice! :thumbsup:
Also - Do it once, do it right. Don't try to take short-cuts, because you will always, always, end-up having to pay for the same job several times over.

[Hqheath]

I want to replace the suspension bushes front and rear to tighten my Vt up. Who out of the usual suspects would be best to go with?
I certainly don't mind spending a bit more if it means better quality. As has been said, "Do it once, do it right."