What do you use to tow?

[DrMus]

Hi folks, my VT track car is now at the point where I will need to start towing it. What do you use to tow? Whatever I decide on will need to be used for double duty for wife (with baby) so that counts out manuals, dual cabs and anything really large (eg Landcruiser etc). I'm thinking along the lines of a Prado but I'm concerned about towing capacity. Any ideas, experiences or thoughts on this?

[Smitty]

first question .... what will the race car/trailer combo weigh?

if it up around 1500-1600kg then something car based is fine (the Tourer pulls mine easily, you wouldn't know its there)
but if 2000+ kg then a Prado should be fine (they are 2400kg? from memory) the Kluger is not as happy at 2000 max,
but a (wash my mouth out) new Territory is 2200kg

you also need to watch the ball weight too.. when selecting a tow vehicle
and I would recommend a load hitch if 2000kg or over for the race car/trailer combo

oh.. and obviously with these sort of weights, the trailer MUST be braked (electric or hydraulic is better than cable)

[mjrandom]

Prados make pretty good tow vehicles up to their capacity of 2500kg. I only pull 1.5t with mine but the camper is nose heavy so my lift and polyairs keep that sorted. Polyairs or similar are cheap too at around $300 if you fit yourself. Be aware there are some vehicles out there with 2t+ towing capacity but quite low ball weight allowance, 180kg etc. Patrols also limit ball weight to 10% or less of trailer mass so you are not supposed to pull 1.5t with 200kg ball weight. To me that is probably just arse covering with stock suspension. The D4D Prado tows best in S4 and exhaust temps and fuel consumption tend to be better than leaving the box in D for dumb. Assume the manual is the same in 5th.

[XUV]

Adventra's are a bargain at the moment.

[redvxr8clubby]

Hi folks, my VT track car is now at the point where I will need to start towing it. What do you use to tow? Whatever I decide on will need to be used for double duty for wife (with baby) so that counts out manuals, dual cabs and anything really large (eg Landcruiser etc). I'm thinking along the lines of a Prado but I'm concerned about towing capacity. Any ideas, experiences or thoughts on this?

I'd say the Prado would be a good candidate given your list of what's out. As has already been said, Prado is 2.5 tonne towing, you need to know the weight of the trailer and car combined, my guess is you are probably somewhere getting towards 2.5 tonnes. A Territory is 2300 Kg rated, but I'd say Prado if you don't want to go a big Landcruiser or dual cabs.

[whitels1ss]

I think a spending budget might be quite an important factor?:idea:

[mjrandom]

On the subject of Prados the petrol V6 can be had for quite a bargain compared to the diesels. Yes it is heavy on fuel towing but it is a good engine and you will save quite a lot on purchase price. Mine's a diesel but that is because I like how a diesel drives off road.

[dnos]

Not sure of your budget, but if you can get a 1996/8 80 series Landcruiser they will tow 3500 kgs all day everyday and cost you max $10k. Good quality, comfortable and very reliable car.

These cars are big in the horse towing world where towing weight numbers are big...

I would avoid the Prado and go with the Cruiser, whether its 80,100 or 200 series.

I've had different 4wds over the years for towing horses, e.g patrols, cruisers, high power utes, and the land cruiser wins by a mile.

[DrMus]

I think a spending budget might be quite an important factor?:idea:

Was thinking 20-30k budget? Another bloody loan grrrrr. Weight wise It's pretty much a stock VT R8 other than stripped interior but now has a cage. I'm guessing 1700kg is conservative guess? I haven't got a trailer yet and planned to hire one when the need arises for a while.

To find the weight I need to tow, do I just add the weight of the trailer to the track car and ensure the car is rated to tow that much? Prado is apparently 2500kgs, a trailer would be like 750 but 2450 is getting right to the Prados towing limit isn, t it?

[mjrandom]

Are you towing long distances? Petrol Prado 120 series, '06 on. Otherwise what about a common rail Rodeo or Coloeado? 3t capacity and the 4JJ is a great engine. iMO the pick of the common rail diesels.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

I'm pretty sure 2011 onward Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesels can tow up to 3.2 or maybe 3.5t? Petrol will do 2.5t. You see grey nomads pulling their massive caravans all the time with these things. Not sure what your budget is but for the features you get they are a very good buy.

[Smitty]

I'm pretty sure 2011 onward Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesels can tow up to 3.2 or maybe 3.5t? Petrol will do 2.5t. You see grey nomads pulling their massive caravans all the time with these things. Not sure what your budget is but for the features you get they are a very good buy.

I've had a friend fight Jeep all the way up to VCAT over the bucket of poo they gave her last year when she bought a new one (she got her money back)
so I would seriously advise staying away from these (as she is not the only one that got given piles of bolts called Grand Chrokees)

a Google on these issues in Australia lists hundreds of hits.. starting with this one on the number of recalls

http://www.drive.com.au/it-pro/jeep-issues-fifth-recall-for-grand-cherokee-in-2014-20140828-109dtb

[duke5700]

Something not like a truck/too big for the missus is probably the hard point here to get around. Something like a Prado would be good, something worth noting though is the old D4D can be a bit of a time bomb with the injectors/fuel pump if not well maintained. There was to be a class action against Toyota for this.. not sure if it ever happened.

I've got a newish Colorado Dual Cab.. the reason i bought it was for towing duties (boat and race car). It really does it with ease but it is a pretty big ute, can be a pain to park but they come with plenty of nice features included and are much nicer to drive than even a 2010 era model.

Personally I would be aiming for a minimum of 2.5T.

One thing you can balance up is how many times a year are you actually going to tow? Might be cheaper to have a much smaller car and hire the 4wd/trailer each time you want to do it.

[Wonky]

I reckon a towbar is a good start....... :D

[whitels1ss]

I reckon a towbar is a good start....... :D

:slap::slap::slap::nutkick::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao ::lmao:

[Smitty]

I reckon a towbar is a good start....... :D

and a tow ball :hide:

[Xjas]

Pajeros have a 3 tonne towing capacity, not as well finished as a Prado but a hell of a lot cheaper for the same year/spec. Only 180kg ball weight though when over 2.5 tonne.

[C4B]

If you want something that will tow it easily but your wife will love to drive go a Discovery 3 (3.5T). I had one and since then a VX Prado and now an FJ Cruiser and the Disco is miles better for towing (rubbish on the beach, but brilliant for towing).

Don't go for a Discovery 2 though because they were the biggest unreliable heap of crap ever (until Jeep came along anyway)

[Micks]

I reckon a towbar is a good start....... :D

But how much ball weight Gazza? :lmao:

[Wonky]

But how much ball weight Gazza? :lmao:

That's getting too personal Mick!! :shock:

[redvxr8clubby]

Pajeros have a 3 tonne towing capacity, not as well finished as a Prado but a hell of a lot cheaper for the same year/spec. Only 180kg ball weight though when over 2.5 tonne.

When I read this I thought yeah Pajero is a great compromise with towing capacity, and not as big as a cruiser, but when you mention limited to 180Kg when around 2.5 ton that'll be a problem as it sounds like car and trailer will be about 2.5 tons. 10% is the normally accepted ratio for towball weight to trailer weight, having 3 ton capacity but 180Kg ball weight isn't really adequate unless say the use of a weight distribution hitch changes the ball weight limit. I was thinking about Discovery as well, but was thinking it would come under the too big category for the wife.

[Dickie Knee]

I know it is at the upper end of your budget, but MY12 Isuzu D-MAX SX 4x4 crew cab. These things are good for 3.0t towing (if MY13 tow bar is fitted up that to 3.5t). The Caprice has been known to be on a trailer behind one.

3 litre turbo diesel is good on fuel and rego. They do not feel too big for the wife to drive. My wife has driven the D-MAX.

These can be had for 30K, they are the current shape. Any 4x4 crew cab UTE is currently holding good value and will always be better resale later than a sedan or wagon.

[Dickie Knee]

Sorry just read it again. How did I miss the no dual cad bit Soz

[DrMus]

Sorry just read it again. How did I miss the no dual cad bit Soz

All good mate. We used to have a duel cab and it was so handy but wife has ruled that out this time. Needs to be more SUV style (is that the right term) than ute. I also had a Jeep a while back and had to get Consumer Protection to fight the dealer on warranties; very unreliable. It looks like Prado, Pajero or Discovery at this stage...

[Dickie Knee]

What was the crew cab you had ?The crew cab of totoday Is not what it used to be. the latest batch are more "car like" in the way they drive. It maybe worth getting the wife behind the wheel of a late model with a hard lid

[whitels1ss]

A mate of mine has a Mercedes-Benz ML320 CDI which he uses for towing his very heavy car & car trailer.
4499
3,500 kg Towing Capacity, 510 nm Torque & very good on fuel.
I have driven it a couple of times, it's got everything in it & it's quite comfortable.


http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/used/details/2008-mercedes-benz-ml320-cdi-luxury-auto-4x4-my08/SPOT-ITM-251646

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

I've had a friend fight Jeep all the way up to VCAT over the bucket of poo they gave her last year when she bought a new one (she got her money back)
so I would seriously advise staying away from these (as she is not the only one that got given piles of bolts called Grand Chrokees)

a Google on these issues in Australia lists hundreds of hits.. starting with this one on the number of recalls

http://www.drive.com.au/it-pro/jeep-issues-fifth-recall-for-grand-cherokee-in-2014-20140828-109dtb

I seem to have a good one. Not saying there aren't lemons out there but check the forums, a lot of happy owners there as well.

I have noticed the 2014 (update) onward ones seem to have some issues with the climate control and reverse cameras playing up. Nothing out of the ordinary for the VE/VF commodores that we see on here as well. With this guys budget, sounds like he will definitely be going second hand. If he does his checks and gets one with a history I can't see why he would have any serious issues.

It's funny, it almost seems like going brand new cars is more of a lucky dip these days rather than going for a well cared second hander.

[whitels1ss]

It's funny, it almost seems like going brand new cars is more of a lucky dip these days rather than going for a well cared second hander.

With new cars only holding a rule of thumb 50% residual value after 3 years it makes economical sense:yup:

[Smitty]

.........................

It's funny, it almost seems like going brand new cars is more of a lucky dip these days rather than going for a well cared second hander.

lot of sense in that...

[C4B]

I seem to have a good one. Not saying there aren't lemons out there but check the forums, a lot of happy owners there as well.

I have noticed the 2014 (update) onward ones seem to have some issues with the climate control and reverse cameras playing up. Nothing out of the ordinary for the VE/VF commodores that we see on here as well. With this guys budget, sounds like he will definitely be going second hand. If he does his checks and gets one with a history I can't see why he would have any serious issues.

It's funny, it almost seems like going brand new cars is more of a lucky dip these days rather than going for a well cared second hander.

I think they're a great looking car, but I've seen so many Jeeps over the years stuck on beaches with problems ranging from being stuck in 2WD to overheating engines to electrical gremlins.

They are VERY cheap for what you get, but there's no free lunch and in the case of Jeep that bargain basement price comes at the risk of owning a pile of shit.

[matthewfnorbert]

VW Touareg TDI 4x4 (real 4WD not AWD) - very capable tow vehicle
Triton TDI 2.5 4x4 - also great for towing, but rougher ride etc, noisy

[Wonky]

A mate of mine has a Mercedes-Benz ML320 CDI which he uses for towing his very heavy car & car trailer.
4499
3,500 kg Towing Capacity, 510 nm Torque & very good on fuel.
I have driven it a couple of times, it's got everything in it & it's quite comfortable.


http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/used/details/2008-mercedes-benz-ml320-cdi-luxury-auto-4x4-my08/SPOT-ITM-251646

My daughter has the same (2006) for towing our triple horse float plus. She also wanted a very comfortable car to drive as she does a lot of kms for work. It (supposedly?) had 83,000km when she got it about 18 mths ago and has since done about 50,000km with only one issue - a gearbox problem which cost her about $2,000. Lovely car!!

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/Sarahscar2_zps75fd79de.jpg (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/gcovo/media/Misc/Sarahscar2_zps75fd79de.jpg.html)
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/Sarahscar7_zpsd7fbfea6.jpg (http://s122.photobucket.com/user/gcovo/media/Misc/Sarahscar7_zpsd7fbfea6.jpg.html)

[Swordie]

Ford Territory.

[zorro]

Ford Territory.

For a disposable tow car this on gas will get you going for a while on the cheap.

Long term though there has to be compromise, size and purpose go hand in hand, last thing you want is a sketchy vehicle pulling your trailer with car on it.

3.0l patrols are cheap and simple mods to prevent them grenading will give you a very capable and reliable truck. Don't discount pajeros I have towed quite a bit with them and they drive like a car.

[whitels1ss]

For a disposable tow car this on gas will get you going for a while on the cheap.

Long term though there has to be compromise, size and purpose go hand in hand, last thing you want is a sketchy vehicle pulling your trailer with car on it.

3.0l patrols are cheap and simple mods to prevent them grenading will give you a very capable and reliable truck. Don't discount pajeros I have towed quite a bit with them and they drive like a car.

Territory is okay if you replace the ball joints, diff bushes & tail gate hinges.
They aren't bad to drive either.

Have seen too many 3.0 Patrols blow motors for my liking, even saw one come in for new car warranty with under 2,000 kms on it.

I think the Pajero is less truck like, nicer to drive & far more reliable.:yup:

[Swordie]

I was looking at brochure of current Territory, with heavy duty tow pack AWD does 2700kg and 2WD 2300Kg. Seems quite good and suits requirment.

Initial thread indicates doesn't want large car, I would thought latest Prado is quite big. I sat in latest Fortuna, that's quite big. They would be both great tow cars for pulling required load.

[DrMus]

Lots of great suggestions and comments. Just to clear a few things up...
1) We've had a dual cab, loved it but the rear area is not suitable for what wife will be using it for, hence large SUV.
2) Love the mercs and new Fortuna etc but likely well out of our budget
3) Will never do another Jeep, badly (I mean badly) burnt in the past.

Question: is it possible to upgrade the towing capacity? I wouldn't usually suggest this but as the vehicles primary purpose is not towing, perhaps an upgraded towing system will be of benefit on the occasions I do tow the track car?

[seldo]

For a disposable tow car this on gas will get you going for a while on the cheap.

Long term though there has to be compromise, size and purpose go hand in hand, last thing you want is a sketchy vehicle pulling your trailer with car on it.

3.0l patrols are cheap and simple mods to prevent them grenading will give you a very capable and reliable truck. Don't discount pajeros I have towed quite a bit with them and they drive like a car.It's important that it is good to drive as a daily.
Years back, my mate told me he was going to buy a Land Rover. I asked why on earth he would want to do that...?
Because I like to take the family camping at Easter each year...
Yes, I know that, but you also hire a tip-truck to take all your shit to the dump occasionally too - does that mean you want to drive a dump-truck all year round?....
....He kept his Falcon family wagon, and hired a 4by whenever he needed one - once a year...

[Jag530G]

To the OP, I see you are in WA, do they have a towing vehicle weight requirement over there?

When I bought my Cascada we were talking about tow cars and the Holden dealer said although the Colorado has a 3.5t tow capicty which is fine in QLD, in NSW they also have a vehicle weight requirement as well. From this I gathered that to tow in NSW with something like a near fully dressed Commodore such as yours, and a tandem trailer would be about 2.5t. You would need a LR Disco or Landcrusier to do the job, or maybe a Prado would scrap in.

Cheers, Matthew

[seldo]

To the OP, I see you are in WA, do they have a towing vehicle weight requirement over there?

When I bought my Cascada we were talking about tow cars and the Holden dealer said although the Colorado has a 3.5t tow capicty which is fine in QLD, in NSW they also have a vehicle weight requirement as well. From this I gathered that to tow in NSW with something like a near fully dressed Commodore such as yours, and a tandem trailer would be about 2.5t. You would need a LR Disco or Landcrusier to do the job, or maybe a Prado would scrap in.

Cheers, MatthewGood point Matthew. It used to be that the towing vehicle had to weigh more than the towed combination, unless the towing vehicle was a "commercial" vehicle. Might have changed though in the ensuing 40 years....

[Swordie]

Lots of great suggestions and comments. Just to clear a few things up...
1) We've had a dual cab, loved it but the rear area is not suitable for what wife will be using it for, hence large SUV.
2) Love the mercs and new Fortuna etc but likely well out of our budget
3) Will never do another Jeep, badly (I mean badly) burnt in the past.

Question: is it possible to upgrade the towing capacity? I wouldn't usually suggest this but as the vehicles primary purpose is not towing, perhaps an upgraded towing system will be of benefit on the occasions I do tow the track car?

What sort of car do you have now?

[DrMus]

What sort of car do you have now?

We have a VE and a VY commodore.

[Swordie]

VY had a heavy duty tow pack giving 2100kg. My guess is add weight of trailer and car see how it compares. You need to take your time and not go over 80km and probably best to fit trans cooler.

Handy car the old VY.

[IJ.]

Gonna need a really light trailer to keep it legal..

[Jag530G]

Is there even such a thing as a tandem car trailer that weighs less than 400kg? Most ones that I know of are around 800kg+. A COmmodore weighs 1700kg+/- so the trailer would have to be 400kg tops to keep it under 2100kg. Hard to imagine really, even if made of aluminium.

Cheers, Matthew

[Smitty]

Is there even such a thing as a tandem car trailer that weighs less than 400kg? Most ones that I know of are around 800kg+. A COmmodore weighs 1700kg+/- so the trailer would have to be 400kg tops to keep it under 2100kg. Hard to imagine really, even if made of aluminium.

Cheers, Matthew

... bloody heavy race car if 1700+kg
street car yes ...but light weight is next to godliness when racing

[Jag530G]

Yeah, your race VK plus a normal tandem would be well under 2100kg. I think the OP was taking about a VT with just a stripped interior, couldn't see that being below 1500kg. A V8 VT era sedan was around 1680. I know my Monaro CV8 M6 was 1640kg stock.

This probably all goes to show how heavy cars have become, a 6cyl VB era Commodore was barely 1200kg, My old TS Astra was about that in 1999, our current model Cruze is around 1500kg and our Cascada is a true porker, 1744kg.

Cheers, Matthew

[Smitty]

Yeah, your race VK plus a normal tandem would be well under 2100kg. I think the OP was taking about a VT with just a stripped interior, couldn't see that being below 1500kg. A V8 VT era sedan was around 1680. I know my Monaro CV8 M6 was 1640kg stock.



from memory... the car/trailer combo (dry.. as in little fuel in race car or no jerry on the trailer) was 1630kg
when I weighed both just after buying the trailer (on a local weighbridge)

Since then the trailer has a permanent spare wheel mounting but also has had a fair chunk taken out of the checker floor
this pic is after.. so the trailer probably is bit lighter

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20140820_135848_zpsad1d23b9.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/smitty1955/media/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20140820_135848_zpsad1d23b9.jpg.html)

[DrMus]

Far out Smitty, there's some inspiration there! Lovely trailer. Yes my car is just a VT with interior stripped but I'm guessing the cage makes up for it?

[IJ.]

Far out Smitty, there's some inspiration there! Lovely trailer. Yes my car is just a VT with interior stripped but I'm guessing the cage makes up for it?

Yep Cage is pretty close to = Interior, mine came in at 1550Kg's and my trailer isn't exactly light so I'm right on the Bubble with the Tonner as a tow car..

[Smitty]

Far out Smitty, there's some inspiration there! Lovely trailer. Yes my car is just a VT with interior stripped but I'm guessing the cage makes up for it?

.. depends on what you strip out.

I pulled the all the interior (door trims are still on at present but will go over Christmas.. finally) and the HVAC
(Aircon compressor is sure heavy) and even the floor deadener (fun job that ! ) Everything else not needed
.. from excess boot wiring (boot opener) to the horn got chucked. The front seats were over 20kg each :shock:

I put a 6kg racing seat + harness back in .. and a 6 point cage (copy of the HDT cages from the Grp C era)
The shop reckons the cage added about 45kg back in but I reckon I pulled far more weight from the car,
...would have to be over 100kg in my reckoning

A VK SL (on which the interceptors were based) were 1220kg +51kg for the V8 (these are the weights from the GMH service manual)
so i reckon it now weighs in race trim ... maybe around 1200kg maybe a tad less

That makes the trailer about 420-430kg which also would be about right (based on the weighbridge total of 1630kg)


guess all that is why it tows well :woot:

[DrMus]

.. depends on what you strip out.

I pulled the all the interior (door trims are still on at present but will go over Christmas.. finally) and the HVAC
(Aircon compressor is sure heavy) and even the floor deadener (fun job that ! ) Everything else not needed
.. from excess boot wiring (boot opener) to the horn got chucked. The front seats were over 20kg each :shock:

I put a 6kg racing seat + harness back in .. and a 6 point cage (copy of the HDT cages from the Grp C era)
The shop reckons the cage added about 45kg back in but I reckon I pulled far more weight from the car,
...would have to be over 100kg in my reckoning

A VK SL (on which the interceptors were based) were 1220kg +51kg for the V8 (these are the weights from the GMH service manual)
so i reckon it now weighs in race trim ... maybe around 1200kg maybe a tad less


Smitty I'm going off topic here but can't help it. Did you 'cut' out any further weight other than what you listed? I did all the stuff you mentioned (including all the sound deadener) but I'm guessing folks cut even more weight out in various places?

[duke5700]

You can get glass doors and panels from Alpha Fibre Glass if you are really keen.

Smitty - trailer looks awesome. I need something with a 3T GVM at least, by the time my proker + spare wheels etc it isn't light.


Smitty I'm going off topic here but can't help it. Did you 'cut' out any further weight other than what you listed? I did all the stuff you mentioned (including all the sound deadener) but I'm guessing folks cut even more weight out in various places?

[Smitty]

Smitty I'm going off topic here but can't help it. Did you 'cut' out any further weight other than what you listed? I did all the stuff you mentioned (including all the sound deadener) but I'm guessing folks cut even more weight out in various places?

in my case.. no not yet ( I will be doing stuff before next season)
but
I am aware of a few areas that are easy weight reducers -

replace std 63 litre tank with 15 litre fuel cell - possible reduction nearly 50kg
replace steel suspension arms with tubular versions (about 10kg front and rear)
replace side and rear glass with perspex (this is a biggie as is...)
remove power steering system (pump, lines and hoses and swap in a manual rack).. saves more than 40kg
replace rear steel bulkhead (between wheel arches) with a piece of alloy sheet (note... it has to be fire proof though)
remove dash and cluster replace with alloy sheet version (about 20 kg with this)
cut out inner reinforcing on boot and bonnet
remove side door crash bars (side impact beams in door are nearly 5kg each)
remove bottom radiator reinforcement panel and replace with alloy strap between chassis

and I have not even gone to lightweight or drilled bolts and nuts :cool:


If i did all that I would be running a VK race car with a weight less than 1100kg :)