Anyone have HP tuners software?

[feistl]

Hey Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has HP Tuners and can help me load a tune file?

Long story short, i am fitting a VCM-11 camshaft and manual transmission to my VZ wagon (L76 engine). APS will be tuning the car, but they couldn't/wouldn't preload a basic tune file to my ECU. Instead they suggested trucking the car down to them after doing the swap...

Instead i would like to load a basic tune (to suit the cam, mafless and transmission) so i can check everything is working before sending the car down. That way if theres any issues with say the wiring, oil pressure etc i can fix it up myself. Otherwise ill have to pay for towing in multiple directions plus the time APS waste fault finding.

Someone has posted up a HP Tuners tune for a "VCM11 2008 L98 VE Mafless OTR Full Exhaust Manual" which i believe would be using the same E38 ECU as the VZ L76?? So in theory it should just be a case of loading that tune onto my ECU? I have a TechII if i need to link the BCM to the ECU after changing the tune...

http://coilswap.net/efiecu/viewtopic.php?t=30

Looking on HP Tuners website it seems to suggest i would need 2x credits which would be about $120au? (EDIT - Just to be clear i am obviously happy to pay for the credits :P)

I am based in Vic (South East) but happy to post the ECU out.

Happy to shout a slab for your efforts, just don't want to spend too much as it will be overwritten by APS.

Which is another good questions... Will APS have any issues overwritting the HP Tuners file (I think they use EFI Live).

Cheers, Errol

[Smashfist]

APS will be tuning the car, but they couldn't/wouldn't preload a basic tune file to my ECU. Instead they suggested trucking the car down to them after doing the swap...

I can't help you sorry bud, but that's piss poor service. When I put a cam in mine Tekno were more than happy to organise a basic tune (and it was plenty good enough to drive it around for a week or so just so I could be sure everything was good before taking it in), and they didn't even charge any extra for the privilege.

[macca_779]

With what it's going to cost you in credits you could trailer the car there. I completely understand where APS is coming from. If your build fails on their generic tune it can create issues with owners blaming the tune for any number of reasons. Not saying your build is but these guys do alot of work and it's not worth the risk.

[Micks]

Errol a pm to Simon might be worthwhile, he has a cammed VZ L76 M6 & is very switched on with all things tuning. http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/member.php?15685-swingtan

[Wonky]

Errol a pm to Simon might be worthwhile, he has a cammed VZ L76 M6 & is very switched on with all things tuning. http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/member.php?15685-swingtan
He also lives quite close to you Errol. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful, though I suspect I expected way too much of him last time. Sorry Simon. 😲

[whitels1ss]

Instead i would like to load a basic tune (to suit the cam, mafless and transmission) so i can check everything is working before sending the car down.
That way if theres any issues with say the wiring, oil pressure etc i can fix it up myself.


Errol, surely the car should start & run well enough just to check the things you mentioned like wiring & oil pressure etc on the original tune?

I would just start it, check those things & trailer it over to them.

I can't blame Luis for not wanting to supply a generic tune to suit your specs, nothing personal,
(I have heaps of respect for what I have seen you have done & posted on the forum)
but I am sure APS would just have a blanket rule because so many people could make mistakes
& so many things could go wrong that APS could get wrongfully blamed for.

[A PSYCHO]

Errol, surely the car should start & run well enough just to check the things you mentioned like wiring & oil pressure etc on the original tune?

I would just start it, check those things & trailer it over to them.


exactly what I did in the past.

[feistl]

Thanks guys,

Ill shoot a PM to Simon and see what he says...

I probably should have started with the whole story but I'm still not 100% sure exactly what i am going to do yet (and didn't want to make the post overly complicated)...

I've pulled the engine out of the car and stripped it down. Heads have been machined (didnt end up taking .030", just took .005" off to clean up the surface and had them cleaned) and i took the sump off to plug the bypass valve. When i went to install the camshaft i noticed 2 of the bearings have a slight copper colour to them, suggesting they are starting to wear out. Originally i wasn't going to touch the bottom end, but as the cam bearings have slight wear i better check the main/rod bearings. After reading various posts/articles it appears you shouldn't really remove the end caps/bearings unless you are planning on changing them.

So at this stage (annoyingly) ill have to wait till the machine shop opens up next year and send the block off to have new cam bearings installed. At the same time ill change the main/rod bearings and fit ARP bolts throughout (Apparently when changing to ARP Rod bolts you need to do something to the bearings otherwise the extra clamping force causes issues. Originally i wasn't going to bother, but as the engine is already getting work done i may as well do the lot....). Then i figure as the engine is apart i may as well do new piston rings and a hone....

Secondly, i have a friend who is a (qualified/certified) LPG installer. I have ordered a very high end LPG injection system from the UK and he is going to install it while the car is apart. Its a new type of Vapour Injection system that will support more power than liquid injection and run on LPG up to redline (rather than switching back to petrol). My car will be a bit of a test bed to see how well it performs.

So the idea is to rebuild the engine (new piston rings, new main/rod/cam bearings, APR bolts throughout, new oil pump to suit the tighter clearances and fit the cam, timing chain, rocker trunnion upgrade, pushrods, springs and all new gaskets/seals etc) and fit it with the LPG system on installation.

I wanted a tune that would allow me to run in the engine and test the LPG system, take it to my mate who would certify the installation (has to be done at his work) then take the car to Luis/APS who would properly tune on Petrol/LPG.

If i just start and idle the engine i have no way of bedding in the piston rings and no way of testing out the LPG system. Plus i would need to trailer the car to the LPG shop first (to get certified) then trailer it to APS. Seems like a much easier option would be to load a suitable tune onto the ECU, run the engine in, flush the oil in the gearbox then fit mainlube oil (I am rebuilding the gearbox as well) and once everything is working properly then take it to get tuned.

See, nothing is ever simple.

Plus i pulled the engine out last week, now i have to wait until the week of the 16th before i can get the engine work done... So having to hire a car in the meantime.

I have nothing against workshops doing work or the money they charge, but if there is any faults/issues i don't really want to be paying someone $100/hour to troubleshoot something i could easily do myself.

And yes, i have no issue with Luis/APS not wanting to load a generic tune for a customer but they've seen the type of work i do on the VX and i did say i wouldn't hold them responsible if i blow up the motor... I just want to run it first.

Cheers, Errol.

[LuisS]

Kill me now !.....So many variables, new type of LPG system from the UK that will make your car a test bed - and you want to just get HP tuners software and slap in a tune?

Just hook up the maf and turn the key man !!

I thought you'd learnt from your last fiasco Errol !

Have a good xmas break

[feistl]

Kill me now !.....So many variables

If it was easy you wouldn't be earning your moneys worth :)

More so i want to try and iron out as many bugs as possible before bringing the car down...

Is it a really bad idea to use a tune to try and run the motor first?

Cheers

[Smashfist]

Is it a really bad idea to use a tune to try and run the motor first?

Personally I don't think so as long as you're reasonable and respect the limits of a "close enough" tune (which is all a mail order tune really is anyway and people run those day in day out without breaking anything). Even with fueling all over the place it will still run fine enough to drive short term providing you stay well south of limiter and don't fang it.

Hell mine didn't surge any less or idle any better after I got the initial MAFless mapping sorted properly on the dyno, it was very close.

[LuisS]

Personally I don't think so as long as you're reasonable and respect the limits of a "close enough" tune (which is all a mail order tune really is anyway and people run those day in day out without breaking anything). Even with fueling all over the place it will still run fine enough to drive short term providing you stay well south of limiter and don't fang it.

Hell mine didn't surge any less or idle any better after I got the initial MAFless mapping sorted properly on the dyno, it was very close.

How's this "all over the place" fueling going to work with the ring bed in process ?
Seriously , just put the maf on and turn the key

[feistl]

Can the engine be run with the MAF and the new cam? (I have no issues doing it this way, it would be very easy to swap the OTR on at a later date).

if so should I swap the ECU to a manual Version (standard tune just suit manual transmission).

As I said originally I hadn't planned on doing bearings/rings, but as the cam bearings need changing it seems silly not to go to the extra effort.

cheers

[LuisS]

Can the engine be run with the MAF and the new cam? (I have no issues doing it this way, it would be very easy to swap the OTR on at a later date).

if so should I swap the ECU to a manual Version (standard tune just suit manual transmission).

As I said originally I hadn't planned on doing bearings/rings, but as the cam bearings need changing it seems silly not to go to the extra effort.

cheers
Yes Errol , the only thing you may struggle with is idle speed once it warms up

[whitels1ss]

How did you go in the end Errol? :cheers:

[feistl]

Hey guys,

Simon came around and loaded his tune except the MAF was enabled. Luckily he also has a 6L L76 VZ with a large camshaft so his tune was pretty much right straight out of the box. I had a few minor issues getting the engine running initially but were able to sort them out pretty quickly. I am just doing the write up for the thread now... Its just over 600 photos and 15,000 words so far and hopefully ready to post in the next few weeks. Yes, there has been an massive amount of work...

I have to say a massive thank you to Simon, he has been super helpful with my million questions and requests and has the tune running really well. Really top bloke, not too many people are willing to give up their time to help out an internet random.

I've done nearly 1000km on the engine so will change the oil again shortly then book in for Luis to do the full Mafless tune.

As per my other thread (wanting to borrow a VE shifter) I'm not overly happy with the T56 M12 gearbox. It shifts really well when driven hard but its a bit too notchy (like all T56s) at slow speed. As this is my daily driver 99% of the time it will be driven softly... So I'm going to do a conversion to a TR6060. Once i figure how to make it work (lot of information saying its impossible, but i like a challenge) ill finish wiring up the thread and post it.

BTW we ended up using EFI rather than HP tuners.

Cheers,

PS, sorry to Luis i didn't realise you could run a "standard" tune with the MAF. The MAF tune has been perfect for bedding in the engine, its amazing how much the motor has loosened up over 1000kms. With all the engine work that was done (will be in the build thread) its very tight with fantastic oil pressure. Hot idle is around 45psi and goes up to 80psi at 5000rpm. Thats with a standard volume pump, not the high volume DoD pump.

[Micks]

Errol what lube are you running in the T56 & has the box been reconditioned or secondhand?
Also I run the original L76 high volume pump & get the same numbers as you. A Melling LS replacement 10295 will also give the same numbers too.

[feistl]

The box was a low km from a VZ clubsport. It was rebuilt with billet keys (which is what i think is causing the notchyness, as this isnt the first T56 ive had with billet keys and its been shit). Its also got a Harrop short shifter and GTS gearstick.
Its currently running Mainlube, not the normal mainlube but the extra heavy duty. I can't shift into 2nd when cold (which i am ok with as the oil is very thick). But yeah, just notchy.

I am running a Melling M295 which is a standard pump but with an increased pressure relief valve.