Blower Advice

[sportwagon]

Hi guys i have a 2009 ve calias v wagon with harrop 1900 black series blower fitted about 7 years ago with a small blower cam makes about 550 rwhp,I am thinking of moving up to a vf ss wagon with ls3 looking @ making similar hp as the ve but without doing the cam as the ve has an l98 only 7 psi boost no pulley upgrade i hope this is realistic, my question is whats the best way power wise and dollar wise to achieve this ie new blower, what kind as my blower, as mine is now 7 years old newer and better blowers than mine or should i just swap it over to the ls3, if i go new blower do i put my wagon back to stock sell the harrop or sell wagon as is and if i go new blower whats best for stock ls3,all info and ideas would be appreciated and any ideas i didnt thick of would be considered.Im sure theres much smarter guys on here than me so all info will be respected.Thanks guys

[whitels1ss]

Hi guys i have a 2009 ve calias v wagon with harrop 1900 black series blower fitted about 7 years ago with a small blower cam makes about 550 rwhp,I am thinking of moving up to a vf ss wagon with ls3 looking @ making similar hp as the ve but without doing the cam as the ve has an l98 only 7 psi boost no pulley upgrade i hope this is realistic, my question is whats the best way power wise and dollar wise to achieve this ie new blower, what kind as my blower, as mine is now 7 years old newer and better blowers than mine or should i just swap it over to the ls3, if i go new blower do i put my wagon back to stock sell the harrop or sell wagon as is and if i go new blower whats best for stock ls3,all info and ideas would be appreciated and any ideas i didnt thick of would be considered.Im sure theres much smarter guys on here than me so all info will be respected.Thanks guys

I would put it back to stock, get the blower properly overhauled & refit it to the new car.

You won't get the money that it costs to remove & put the car back to stock more
with it on there than you would if you left it on.

[white lie]

May also depend on what you can do yourself or how much it's going to cost to get someone to remove it for you, retune etc. Plus the cost of overhauling the blower as said...

I'd probably go a cheaper series 1 VF and put an LSA in it. Would work out about the same as a VF2 with a blower and you get a new motor that's suited to boost. Otherwise LSA blower on the LS3 is pretty common these days.

You'll make 550 with an intake, exhaust and boost in an LSA.

[Wonky]

My VE LS3 with Harrop 1900 and stock cam makes 385rwkw on a very tough dyno. Before thermal spacers, new fuel pump and retune it made 350rwkw on the same dyno, whereas it had made high 390+ elsewhere. On many/most dynos it would now easily run 400+ rwkw or getting close to or over the OP's required 550rwhp. That is admittedly with pulley kit but it now has plenty of overhead for more boost, not that I'm going down that path. [emoji4]

[scotty82]

I put an LSA blower on top of my VF II SSV-R wagon late last year. Whilst I got the low km blower at a good price with plenty of extras there was quite a few parts, sensor extensions and little details to be sorted.

Yes I am very happy with my package but it did take quite a bit of effort to make sure I had all the parts to allow an easy installation.

I would take the blower off your VE and sell as stock. The blower second hand sold as a complete kit still should give you a reasonable return.

I would be looking at the Harrop FDFI2300 kit for a VF. They are a good quality kit and pull good numbers without changing pulleys chasing more boost.

The new generation blowers run much cooler these days due to various changes. They offer much improved performance and personally I love how they work.

If you want further details shoot me a PM if you like.

[feistl]

I'd transfer the blower to the new VF...

in my experience the harrop chargers are pretty awesome but the supporting hardware is pretty limited. Eg the standard coolant pumps are rubbish, the heat exchanger at the front isn't that big (although is easy to install) and the chargers do heatsoak...

i reckon a good exhaust system, thermal spacers, upgraded IC pump and possibly bigger heat exchanger should give good results. The peak hp figure may be slightly lower but you'll make power consistently...

[Wonky]

The HTVs aren't a bad blower but do suffer from heat issues. If you do put it on the VF make sure to add thermal spacers, a better pump and better W2A intercooler (PWR?) and you'll have big improvement! All easy to do whilst installing and not expensive.

[GTS_215i]

The HTVs aren't a bad blower but do suffer from heat issues. If you do put it on the VF make sure to add thermal spacers, a better pump and better W2A intercooler (PWR?) and you'll have big improvement! All easy to do whilst installing and not expensive.

Can you please provide further details about the thermal spacers ?

[Micks]

Thermal reduction plates reduce heat transfer caused by the supercharger sitting directly on the cylinder heads and spacing the charger up off the valley of the engine. The supercharger being in direct contact with the cylinder heads and sitting directly over the valley of the engine reduces thermal efficiency and heat is always the enemy in positive displacement superchargers. With the Thermal reduction plates the blower will operate significantly cooler and make it perform as if were in cooler weather consistently. The air entering the combustion chamber will average lower temps and be denser, allowing a HP gain and in tuning more ignition timing thus again more HP.

[Wonky]

Harrop HTV blowers are known to not be very efficient heatwise so I had a set of thermal spacers fitted before my last retune. With them, a new fuel pump (because the other was running out of steam at the top) I gained 35rwkw on a very tough dyno and the tuner said max IAT he saw in the logs was 54C - pretty good for a HTV.

[feistl]

Wonky, what was the combo? (Engine size, charger model and boost ratio)?

Thats a pretty impressive improvement...

[GTS_215i]

Thanks for the info :)

Who manufactures or sells the Thermal Spacer Plates ?

Are they sealed with O-Rings on both sides ? (Hard to see on the photo I found using google)

Is any machining required to the intake (supercharger) manifold, to compensate for the 10mm or so raised height ? or the angle of the fasteners ?

[feistl]

Straight bolt on, there is a guy in Sydney who sells them (http://fiinterchillers.com/) for about $500 a pair.

apparently no gasket required, only thing you need to change is a longer drive belt. You also may have some clearance issues if you run a Monaro bonnet (I can't remember the exact details).

I can post a photo shortly if you like

[BLACK 346]

Straight bolt on, there is a guy in Sydney who sells them (http://fiinterchillers.com/) for about $500 a pair.

apparently no gasket required, only thing you need to change is a longer drive belt. You also may have some clearance issues if you run a Monaro bonnet (I can't remember the exact details).

I can post a photo shortly if you like

I was going to mention bonnet clearance, just something to think about.

[GTS_215i]

Straight bolt on, there is a guy in Sydney who sells them (http://fiinterchillers.com/) for about $500 a pair.

apparently no gasket required, only thing you need to change is a longer drive belt. You also may have some clearance issues if you run a Monaro bonnet (I can't remember the exact details).

I can post a photo shortly if you like

Yes please :)

Any further info about the bonnet clearance on a Monaro ? or a link ?

[Wonky]

Wonky, what was the combo? (Engine size, charger model and boost ratio)?

Thats a pretty impressive improvement...

LS3 in E1 Senator, HTV1900 and 10 lb boost (actual 9.6). I'm not sure how much each factor affected it eg thermal plates, new fuel pump and different tuner but I'm very happy! :D

[Wonky]

Thanks for the info :)

Who manufactures or sells the Thermal Spacer Plates ?

Are they sealed with O-Rings on both sides ? (Hard to see on the photo I found using google)

Is any machining required to the intake (supercharger) manifold, to compensate for the 10mm or so raised height ? or the angle of the fasteners ?

Harrop also sell them and the fitted price I was quoted for the Harrop spacers was less than the FI Interchillers purchase price, though I do believe the Harrop spacers are not quite as thick. As for what else is required - not sure.

[Tre-Cool]

I'd move the blower over to the new car, leave the cam/springs in the VE, since it's more money to pull out for no good reason.

Put the blower on vf, get both tuned. sell ve.

We just sold my dad's ve recently, that was an auto ss with cam,mp2300 blower,tank upgrade, full exhaust etc for 23k. I wanted to strip and sell the parts off, but they old man didnt care and just wanted it gone sooner.

Can pick up good deals at the moment as a buyer coz the VE's are in abundance.

[sportwagon]

Thanks for all the ideas guys had a chat to the boys @ harrop here in Perth and they said if i was going to keep the same blower and switch it over to the vf then i should get the blower serviced as its 7 years old but it must be sent over east from Perth to be done as they say it cant be done here total cost about $2500, also which do you guys think are the better looking wagon ve or vf i want the vf for the interior and the ls3 but i think my ve looks better am i alone or do others agree.

[whitels1ss]

Thanks for all the ideas guys had a chat to the boys @ harrop here in Perth and they said if i was going to keep the same blower and switch it over to the vf
then i should get the blower serviced as its 7 years old but it must be sent over east from Perth to be done as they say it cant be done here total cost about $2500,
also which do you guys think are the better looking wagon ve or vf i want the vf for the interior and the ls3
but i think my ve looks better am i alone or do others agree.

It's only what YOU like that is important.

You know all the costings so you can do all the sums,
work out a realistic price what you would get for yours,
add it all up & work out if you think it's worth spending $XYZ to change it all over to the other car or not? :cheers:

[Wonky]

.............total cost about $2500...........

:shock: :shock: :shock: Even allowing for transport costs that's a lot of money for a service!!

[Micks]

Thanks for all the ideas guys had a chat to the boys @ harrop here in Perth and they said if i was going to keep the same blower and switch it over to the vf then i should get the blower serviced as its 7 years old but it must be sent over east from Perth to be done as they say it cant be done here total cost about $2500, also which do you guys think are the better looking wagon ve or vf i want the vf for the interior and the ls3 but i think my ve looks better am i alone or do others agree.

Owned both & the VF2 wins for me. :yup:

[feistl]

:shock: :shock: :shock: Even allowing for transport costs that's a lot of money for a service!!

Yeah, although that may be the "max price" depending what needs doing. If the rotors are showing wear and need to be recoated the price adds up pretty quickly.

If its just a matter of some new bearings, seals etc it should be significantly cheaper. Its also not that hard to do yourself, however there are a bunch of tricks to it so contact me if you need more info :).

[BanPC]

Thermal reduction plates reduce heat transfer caused by the supercharger sitting directly on the cylinder heads and spacing the charger up off the valley of the engine. The supercharger being in direct contact with the cylinder heads and sitting directly over the valley of the engine reduces thermal efficiency and heat is always the enemy in positive displacement superchargers. With the Thermal reduction plates the blower will operate significantly cooler and make it perform as if were in cooler weather consistently. The air entering the combustion chamber will average lower temps and be denser, allowing a HP gain and in tuning more ignition timing thus again more HP.

Wow are you on the HSV forums as user Gen-F GTS? that's like word for word what is written over there....

[Wonky]

Gen-F GTS is Kurt from Interchillers I'm pretty sure. Mick would have just copied that as Kurt is an expert on that stuff. :)

[Micks]

Gen-F GTS is Kurt from Interchillers I'm pretty sure. Mick would have just copied that as Kurt is an expert on that stuff. :)

:yup: ;) :cool:

[white lie]

Kirk, not Kurt ;)

[Wonky]

Kirk, not Kurt ;)

:doh: :doh: :doh: :)

[Tre-Cool]

Thanks for all the ideas guys had a chat to the boys @ harrop here in Perth and they said if i was going to keep the same blower and switch it over to the vf then i should get the blower serviced as its 7 years old but it must be sent over east from Perth to be done as they say it cant be done here total cost about $2500, also which do you guys think are the better looking wagon ve or vf i want the vf for the interior and the ls3 but i think my ve looks better am i alone or do others agree.

If it were were me, I wouldn't even both. If it's not leaked out any oil, then it's not worth touching. Or sell it to someone on gumtree & buy a new one.

I've got htv2300 that's about that old I'm betting mine has seen a lot more km's and harder life.

[ls2 cruiser]

If these spacer plates are used, how much less are the intake temps and are they available for cathedral heads? If you do your own tuning then you should have some idea of intake temp change.

[Wonky]

I can't give you specifics but after tuning (dyno runs and I assume road test) my tuner said the highest intake temp he saw was 54C, which I believe on a HTV1900 is pretty good.

[ls2 cruiser]

Thanks Wonky, I have seen mine read 70C

[Wonky]

That reminds me - must get someone to put the scangauge I had in the ute in the Senator to keep an eye on IAT.

[whitels1ss]

That reminds me -
must get someone to put the scangauge I had in the ute in the Senator to keep an eye on IAT.

You must have a huge toy box full of car parts hidden somewhere Gary! :stick: :lol:

[Wonky]

You must have a huge toy box full of car parts hidden somewhere Gary! :stick: :lol:

So my wife keeps complaining about ............. :cussing:

[Micks]

So my wife keeps complaining about ............. :cussing:

You dirty bastard Gazza! :rofl:

[whitels1ss]

So my wife keeps complaining about ............. :cussing:


Yeah, they all complain mate. :lol:

From what you have posted though it seems like yours is pretty good though! :yup: