Holden/Car Advice drive day

[csv rulz]

I was lucky enough to be invited to the Holden/Car Advice drive day at Lang Lang yesterday. We were able to put the new ZB commodore through its paces ranging from the base model 2.0T through to the VXR and the Country Tourer.
A small highlight of the day was being in the car with Rob Trubiani (google him if you dont know who he is) at full flight in a VXR. Anyone who says you cannot drift an AWD car is just not trying hard enough. Whilst not as fast in a straight line as an SS, show it a twisty road and i highly doubt an SS would keep pace with the VXR, especially if the road was a bit damp

The day started with a slalom course with 50% of it wet. The grip of the awd system is very impressive and it was amazing how fast you could hussle these things. They inspired confidence when pushing on.

Next we drove a road loop in 3 cars, an opel insignia (pre holden tuning), a 2.0T with holden tuning & V6 with holden tuning. The differences were amazing. At the pace we were travelling I actually felt nausia in the opel. It was so floaty and just all over the road. The Holden tuned cars were well planted, easy to place and much more sorted. The difference was huge.
The 2.0T really shown here and has some serious grunt for a base model.
The 9spd auto was also very smooth and highly impressive.

Last was some light off roading in the Calais Country Tourer. If i was looking to buy this would be the pick, as much as i like the cars on the day i still find the styling of the liftback a bit awkward.

The Holden engineers went through some of the features never seen before on a holden with the most impressive being the new headlights. As someone who has done a lot of country driving and cleaned up both a kangaroo and wombat, these headights will be amazing.

Overall it was a fantastic day thanks to the Holden Engineers and Car Advice
Special mention goes to Mel Ong for inviting me a long
Photos from the day to come.

[whitels1ss]

Sounds like it was an interesting day,
look forward to seeing some of the pictures. :cheers:

[csv rulz]

Sounds like it was an interesting day,
look forward to seeing some of the pictures. :cheers:Cameras were covered with tape. So have to wait for CarAdvice to send us the pictures from the day

[BLACK 346]

Looking forward to next edition of Motor, they drive the new Commodore (out March 8).

[Smitty]

.... fair enough comments imo
and mirror my experiences in driving the new Holden
(it certainly is not a Commodore in any way.. no handling no design features like one)

the pity is that the AWD system is so restricted in terms of availability (and so expensive in the ZB)
as it works very well

especially like your comment re that POS :flamin:.. Opel Insignia that Holden thought would sell here
and
about the wagon styling vs the slopeback sedan notchback thingy

guess we will see how it sells.... pricing is off the mark though
(compared to its competitors .. base ZB notchback $5000 dearer than a new model imported base Camry :eek:)

[csv rulz]

.... fair enough comments imo
and mirror my experiences in driving the new Holden
(it certainly is not a Commodore in any way.. no handling no design features like one)

the pity is that the AWD system is so restricted in terms of availability (and so expensive in the ZB)
as it works very well

especially like your comment re that POS :flamin:.. Opel Insignia that Holden thought would sell here
and
about the wagon styling vs the slopeback sedan notchback thingy

guess we will see how it sells.... pricing is off the mark though
(compared to its competitors .. base ZB notchback $5000 dearer than a new model imported base Camry :eek:)Completely agree re price. Not something they discussed on the day but from. What i have seen online each model is about $5-10k to expensive.

In saying that a base camry has a 2.5na which doesnt come close to the 2.0T in the base ZB.

After driving them its almost a shame the 2.0T isnt offered in AWD guise as i think that would be the sweet spot

[Smitty]

Completely agree re price. Not something they discussed on the day but from. What i have seen online each model is about $5-10k to expensive.

In saying that a base camry has a 2.5na which doesnt come close to the 2.0T in the base ZB.....................

maybe so.. for us
but
the average punter will look favourably on a Camry 2.5 na ..... that is $5 large cheaper than this new thing from Holden.

I think I can guess what will sell more

[csv rulz]

Some pictures from the dayhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/b4004a8444d2454a4b9be419a0cbec35.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/c08f83b942f404e55040a09a8db25041.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/6330bfe9714faca0872eec176893fa09.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/e07db62b43e79417664a1eb5abd5dd42.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/178e77e9de63a301a254cc7051638c7b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/b15297f4d18bec5b5ea01d4677f70e39.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/6140b45e8c35d0b05a12f10e9672aa61.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/9e62ffa275fd889c5673d6fcb8646052.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/9a353768880366a69d1d2dc15dbafefb.jpg

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Some pictures from the dayhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/9d39a96248f06d691a84cc1e4204ae20.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/3d8274bd68a6b02eaacca917d10c5bae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/7fc79cbb21a8977794788b42df8b7ba0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/46510d257db57d7209c80d78142cdecb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/6e2ded7510be886b0049eb850f040f4c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/bfdc0b253eb4d8925ebbe76a3b6d2ecd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/298ad81208f8e5dd20d961276ece3f43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/873eba9eb45e44d5d896c6c21c3cac9c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/810ced7430a830c1af9c7eb2c086e682.jpg

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Some pictures from the dayhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/59ff399277790a290b6132e33600974b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/93ba13c25ef38622bb0be8558e20bd6c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/5cff401573fcf81222c399e277d51296.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/b4a6ddb65f0a0f2a3b94d59e33826444.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/4bec23b50a36374d59744e4eef8bc7b7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/ffa8a09a85dc6f6fd6b92be7907f36a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/87975ef3651afbfab6fee3bdff7b2a04.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/c23c52d94cc3ae9c870f281ac2a762a0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/d58d72d84aec253559bd0a71ca822406.jpg

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Last lot of picshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/c04a1ff1f4c05f7ea5736d23d99abe17.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/9115c15851f6e1eb19d88d21b40d9fb4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/b2893bb33689cc5aa89352a1fb3af86a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180213/9d4e7e4729e65c4f62804cb8a199c17d.jpg

[Ausmartin1]

The AU Ford bonnet center crease line along with the french mustache blade grill really doesn't cut it along with the power drop / price paid.
They should have named it the model VD vs VG as that what the market sales will be like ...
Still GM knows best like always.

[whitels1ss]

The AU Ford bonnet center crease line along with the french mustache blade grill really doesn't cut it along with the power drop / price paid.
They should have named it the model VD vs VG as that what the market sales will be like ...


Yeah, the car does nothing for me.

[Jason01]

I agree, I typically like wagons for some reason and own one but the ones pictured above are fugly beyond comprehension :spew:.

[Smitty]

I was lucky enough to be invited to the Holden/Car Advice drive day at Lang Lang yesterday. ............


I was lucky enough today .... to get an invite to go to the national launch / drive event of the thing - Friday Mar2
it said...
please present yourself at Holden in Salmons st at 0800 for light breakfast and coffee which will be
followed by the spiel (read.. Q&A talky + selling session) until 0900 when Holden hand me numerous keys
(all models will be available for a test drive) and send me out on victorian roads until 12.30pm
when I return the Holden employee, keys and the cars to 191 Salmon st :)

[mjrandom]

The sedan looks ok but the wagon is ungainly. In my view anyway.

My real concern is the sell off, so these have a 3 year life cycle as Holdens and then what happens?

[Ausmartin1]

The sedan looks ok but the wagon is ungainly. In my view anyway.

My real concern is the sell off, so these have a 3 year life cycle as Holdens and then what happens?

Your screwed - basically.
1) Large depreciation loss
2) Parts under warranty will take a long time to source and then later will not exist.

Smart move would be to buy something else unless you have money and time to burn in the not too distant future.
This is not a time to be loyal to Holden, the shackles are off so go compare other options and pretend Wheels magazine as being paid under the table on this one.

[Goggles]

I think the ZB Commodore looks ok inside and out (all bodystyles).

However, its existence makes me sad.

Why? Not because it has the name and doesn't have RWD, V8, manual transmission.

Because it shows what the Zeta based Commodores could have been if GM and Holden had the same amount of money for development etc and the same potential sales numbers worldwide to amortise the development costs.

Imagine a VF with the VXR seats which have a heating/cooling/massaging function and side bolster adjustments as well as the infotainment connectivity options. Of course, there are all the other tech features the VXR has that the VF never did, but were available in the lifetime of the VF.

I also find it disingenuous that comparisons repeatedly say that the ZB is a better handler than the VF. It had better be, given the chassis tech is at least 10 years newer, if not more.

[Smitty]

............

I also find it disingenuous that comparisons repeatedly say that the ZB is a better handler than the VF. It had better be, given the chassis tech is at least 10 years newer, if not more.

having driven several ZBs, it is not a better handler imo (well not in the 'burbs or on the freeways where I have driven it)
it is different... more understeer but power on mid corner straightens it
but not too much with the right foot, otherwise the dreaded torque steer takes over.

it also reacts different to bumps, tar strips, potholes... less tyre noise over these but more 'thump' noise

and thinking about it.... .. ZB should have been brought in to COMPLEMENT VF
(and replace that gawd awful Malibu, piece of pox that was!)

then Holden might have had a decent passenger car range (which it ain't got)
....new Astra, ZB and VF

[SASLS1]

I also find it disingenuous that comparisons repeatedly say that the ZB is a better handler than the VF. It had better be, given the chassis tech is at least 10 years newer, if not more.

All the motoring comparisons, articles, mags, etc... are all just "Subjective Opinion" nothing more... doesn't make it Fact.... there always biased one way or the other...

Drive the car for "Yourself", and make your "Own Decision" if you like the way it drives & handles...



The new Insigniadoor does 100% nothing for me, I have Zero Care Factor for it... IMO...

[CLUBRED]

Sigh, to think what the VJ could have been. I hope Holden get to release any design sketches / renders they may have had for it.

[CLUBRED]

Took the base LT for a run on the weekend. In my opinion that matters to no one, Holden are in trouble.

[csv rulz]

As much as im not really afn of zb styling, as a V8 supercar they look quite good

[Smitty]

the ZB fleet/retail launch was yesterday ....
so after a briefing at Holden HQ in Salmon st, off we went with over 3 hours out on the road
all models to test drive spread over 28 vehicles

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg~original (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/smitty1955/media/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg.html)

[whitels1ss]

the ZB fleet/retail launch was yesterday ....
so after a briefing at Holden HQ in Salmon st, off we went with over 3 hours out on the road
all models to test drive spread over 28 vehicles

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg~original (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/smitty1955/media/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg.html)



So what were your impressions of the car Smitty?

[Smitty]

So what were your impressions of the car Smitty?

it is NOT a Commodore (not as we know it)
and
yes I actually like to drive it

Not A commodore.. in that it reacts and drives different to ANY VF... Calais SS or HSV you have driven.
This is noticeable as soon as you start to drive it. Great steering but it handles differently
to VF, reacts differently, turns in differently, brake reaction is different.

I have driven the original Opel Insignia in Germany back in mid 2016 and Holden have done a great job
of fixing its faults (the Opel really is not a nice car compared to VF). It is nice to drive in all the versions
I tried 'cept one (see below)

if you are in the market for a Mazda6 (it is better than that, and better value for$) or a Camry (which is cheaper btw) or Optima
ZB is just better (handling, features, grunt).. certainly the wagon version I would buy for the missus in place of a SUV
the sedan (aka liftback) obviously the same but its styling means it looks like white goods on wheels
(as do the Mazda and CAmry and Kia)

it is in a tuff market but out of the others ( I have not driven the new 2018 Camry yet only the 2017.. 2018 is next week) it is superior.
Old time Commodore it is not.. a midsize new imported vehicle with a nice range of doodads features and easy to drive it is.

Calais version is a nice quiet comfy way to get around the 'burbs. Goes OK, even the 2 litre turbo version with auto (only trans available)
spins the front wheels in the dry in first :D Cheap too for a Calais

As a vehicle for our reps at work?... yes I does the job fine
'cept for one MAJOR problem, well two really Holden has a BIG issue here!
All models get space saver spare (NO option for a full size spare or goo/pump either)
so not happy about our country reps having just a space saver
BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS...
no room to put a full size wheel/tyre with the puncture. YES I am serious!
Holden sales guys were stunned when I asked this... ummm ummm we don't know
(but I have been promised an answer, can't wait!)

final comment... the VXR ? nup no stay away. :mad:
I drove an opel insignia in Germany as mentioned. TERRIBLE! I was given an updated one late last year here as a loan car, this sold by
Holden as the Insignia VXR supposedly updated by holden in relation to steering suspension etc. Naaaah still terrible!
This one? .. rorty engine noise, shocking seats, only ok brakes (despite being brembos) nice transmission (major issue with old model)
but $60k PLUS on roads? Nup Nyet! Maybe $50 large plus on roads might gather some interest. The Stinger kicks the VXR arse

[csv rulz]

it is NOT a Commodore (not as we know it)
and
yes I actually like to drive it

Not A commodore.. in that it reacts and drives different to ANY VF... Calais SS or HSV you have driven.
This is noticeable as soon as you start to drive it. Great steering but it handles differently
to VF, reacts differently, turns in differently, brake reaction is different.

I have driven the original Opel Insignia in Germany back in mid 2016 and Holden have done a great job
of fixing its faults (the Opel really is not a nice car compared to VF). It is nice to drive in all the versions
I tried 'cept one (see below)

if you are in the market for a Mazda6 (it is better than that, and better value for$) or a Camry (which is cheaper btw) or Optima
ZB is just better (handling, features, grunt).. certainly the wagon version I would buy for the missus in place of a SUV
the sedan (aka liftback) obviously the same but its styling means it looks like white goods on wheels
(as do the Mazda and CAmry and Kia)

it is in a tuff market but out of the others ( I have not driven the new 2018 Camry yet only the 2017.. 2018 is next week) it is superior.
Old time Commodore it is not.. a midsize new imported vehicle with a nice range of doodads features and easy to drive it is.

Calais version is a nice quiet comfy way to get around the 'burbs. Goes OK, even the 2 litre turbo version with auto (only trans available)
spins the front wheels in the dry in first :D Cheap too for a Calais

As a vehicle for our reps at work?... yes I does the job fine
'cept for one MAJOR problem, well two really Holden has a BIG issue here!
All models get space saver spare (NO option for a full size spare or goo/pump either)
so not happy about our country reps having just a space saver
BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS...
no room to put a full size wheel/tyre with the puncture. YES I am serious!
Holden sales guys were stunned when I asked this... ummm ummm we don't know
(but I have been promised an answer, can't wait!)

final comment... the VXR ? nup no stay away. :mad:
I drove an opel insignia in Germany as mentioned. TERRIBLE! I was given an updated one late last year here as a loan car, this sold by
Holden as the Insignia VXR supposedly updated by holden in relation to steering suspension etc. Naaaah still terrible!
This one? .. rorty engine noise, shocking seats, only ok brakes (despite being brembos) nice transmission (major issue with old model)
but $60k PLUS on roads? Nup Nyet! Maybe $50 large plus on roads might gather some interest. The Stinger kicks the VXR arseAgree with most of those comments. The 2.0T is a great thing for a base car, the steering is a bit on the light side for my liking and yes VXR seems overpriced given the performance available. I did however love the VXR seats and was impressed with how hard the VXR could instantly be pushed due to the awd grip. Being able to alter the width of the seat bolsters meant it was extremely easy to find a comfortable setting.

I also beleive they shouldnt have named it a commodore, however we have to remember VE/VF was the only aussie built commodore, all previous models had some influence from opel (some more than others) and holden have already succeeded in that this is probably the most talked about new commodore in a long time.
Regardless if its positive or negative people are talking about it.

[Smitty]

Agree with most of those comments. The 2.0T is a great thing for a base car, the steering is a bit on the light side for my liking and yes VXR seems overpriced given the performance available. I did however love the VXR seats and was impressed with how hard the VXR could instantly be pushed due to the awd grip. Being able to alter the width of the seat bolsters meant it was extremely easy to find a comfortable setting.



yes agree ..... the VXR seat bolsters are adjustable but the seat itself is like sitting on a hard park bench
unbelievably rock hard and boneshaking, just uncomprising, no cushioning at all ... totally unsuitable for a road car imo
(and I say that as someone who regularly parks his rear in a FIA Sparco race seat in the race car)

the seats we have in our VF SS SSV or HSV are so vastly superior ... as is the normal ZB seats

[csv rulz]

yes agree ..... the VXR seat bolsters are adjustable but the seat itself is like sitting on a hard park bench
unbelievably rock hard and boneshaking, just uncomprising, no cushioning at all ... totally unsuitable for a road car imo
(and I say that as someone who regularly parks his rear in a FIA Sparco race set in my VK race car)

the seats we have in our VF SS SSV or HSV are just vastly superior ...Fair call. I was only in them for a few minutes at a time and it was for hard driving so i didnt notice how firm they were.
I was in a Calais V Tourer for a lot longer and found the front seats in that very comfortable

[CLUBRED]

I wonder how many passengers will pull the park brake thinking they're operating the windows.

[mjrandom]

You mean like VE to VF? I had a couple of interesting moments when I first bought the GTS after getting the mail. Neighbour thought I was brake checking him on the common driveway. He was on his bicycle.

[Smitty]

I wonder how many passengers will pull the park brake thinking they're operating the windows.

I did this a few times when I got the VF, as did my missus

just had to get used to the fact there is now nothing usable on the console ;)

[CLUBRED]

At least the VF has the button on the driver's side though.

[Smitty]

At least the VF has the button on the driver's side though.

correct... I did notice that on ZB, it is on the passenger side
but given the console is so narrow it is within the driver's easy reach

which is unlike the wagon rear wiper. I asked the Holden sales
and engineering guys at the launch, why the wagon wiper
is installed the wrong way. I got some blank looks ... and no answer

Unlike EVERY Commodore wagon since VB where the rear wiper wipes the DRIVER side first
(rather sensible safety wise imo), but on the ZB? nope ! we clear the passenger side first (Why?)
no-one knows ....

https://res.cloudinary.com/carsguide/image/upload/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto,t_cg_hero_large/v1/editorial/Holden-Commodore-Sportwagon-2018-grey-%282%29.jpg

[mjrandom]

A LHD hangover? My M is our only euro and the LHD stalks are no big deal but still a pita. So easy to fix. I have washed the windscreen angrily in a couple of cars now until I switch my brain to which is which. 😂

[mac06]

This requires a change of mindset when compared to what we have been used to in the VF, but interesting comment made in Caradvice as below-


If local manufacturing were to have remained viable for the Australian car industry, the car you're looking at here is the exact vehicle that would have been built in Adelaide for the Australian market. Holden was told by GM in 2011 that it would have input into the new platform, but that input would need to take into consideration the European, US and Chinese markets.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/621913/2018-holden-zb-commodore-review-2/

In essence the ZB was what we would have got if local manufacturing had continued.

[CLUBRED]

Pretty sure I read our "ZB" (or VJ) would have been a slightly longer variation..

[mac06]

Yeah GoAuto mentions a longer-wheelbase and reskinned version, but it looks like the FWD/AWD and engine lineup would have been the same.

[mjrandom]

That wagon shot... black out the chrome, decent tint, nice wheels. Night shot with no lights. Stand back 2km. Probably look ok.

[Smitty]

That wagon shot... black out the chrome, decent tint, nice wheels. Night shot with no lights. Stand back 2km. Probably look ok.


haha... my thoughts 'zactly :dancenana:

[C4B]

It saddens me no end to think that as someone who has owned many Holdens / HSV's over the years that I am now about as likely to purchase a Holden as a Great Wall. I practically worshipped the brand back in the early 2000's.

Yes I still own a HSV, but it's light years away from what Holden produce these days (thankfully).

[Ausmartin1]

Seems the ZB consensus from auto reviewers is that the VRX lacks punch from the engine and the transmission is confused - do not tell me they have slipped back to the olden days of the Nissan 6cyl and it's crazed auto?

One thing I laugh at that they say the car looks better in real life, After spending time with one I tend to disagree it is much worse in reality - do not like the bonnet crease and the crease on the door handles plus the spoiler is short length wise like a bad add on from the 80's. I expected a lot better, but I am not surprised the sheet metal does not flow like other brands.

Also feel like being / sitting in a medium sized car - especially compared to past commodores (Maybe it is just me but it feels much smaller).

Here is car advice 8th March comparing ZB to Stinger.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncgJ5vBfXns

[Aus8]

Agree with your comments Martin. Seen some at the dealer in flesh and they do look small. VXR performance isn’t great either as much as the tyres and brakes are good it’s only a 14 second car. Full of lots of tech which is great but ultimately I won’t be buying one or any Holden. They have no class leaders at all really poor range. Sad days.