Methanol/water injection

[BLACK 346]

Just when you think your cars modifications path is terminal along comes something else. After chatting with Brad recently I started doing some research on methanol/water injection. Anyway, fast forward a couple of weeks and up pops this kit on ebay for $500. Long story short, with a $50 ebay discount to egg me on, I bought it last Wednesday and Rocket Industries had it in my hands within 2 days. Now for the fun part, getting it installed. Not sure how Brad is going to get the tank in my engine bay with all the custom tanks that already reside in there. May have to go for a boot install.

[whitels1ss]

Sounds good Rod, did you get the other problems with it sorted mate?

[BLACK 346]

Sounds good Rod, did you get the other problems with it sorted mate?

Not 100 percent sorted Ed, the TC still can randomly cause idling issues. That is about the only thing that is still outstanding. If I drive it TC off it runs perfect all the time, with TC enabled at times it will idle erratically when I come to a stop. It is a frustrating issue as it doesn't happen all the time.

PS...I sent a PM to the person that you suggested may be able to help, even dropped your name. I got no reply unfortunately :(

[whitels1ss]

Not 100 percent sorted Ed, the TC still can randomly cause idling issues.
That is about the only thing that is still outstanding.
If I drive it TC off it runs perfect all the time, with TC enabled at times it will idle erratically when I come to a stop.
It is a frustrating issue as it doesn't happen all the time.

I can understand your frustration mate. :doh:

[white lie]

Interested to see how it goes and what results you get. I toyed with the idea a long time ago but never followed through with it

[BLACK 346]

Interested to see how it goes and what results you get. I toyed with the idea a long time ago but never followed through with it

Will definitely post up results after install. Not really looking for more power though, just cooler temps and more consistent power in hotter weather. Did a fair bit of reading up on it prior to purchasing (even old threads on here), and it all seems to be positive feedback from those that are using it.

[ittwgn]

been using it for years on my turbo setup run 70/30 meth /water mix spray 2 nozzles before tbody and one straight into turbo run an alcohol injections kit

[whitels1ss]

Will definitely post up results after install. Not really looking for more power though, just cooler temps and more consistent power in hotter weather.

How did this go for you Rod?

Before & after power figures? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

How did this go for you Rod?

Before & after power figures? :cheers:

Still sitting in the shed Ed, might look at getting it fitted later in the year.

[whitels1ss]

Look forward to seeing the results mate. :cheers:

[white lie]

been using it for years on my turbo setup run 70/30 meth /water mix spray 2 nozzles before tbody and one straight into turbo run an alcohol injections kitI know someone that was looking to make up a plate to go between the heads and a supercharger so it sprays directly into the cylinder. They currently make them to incorporate the nozzles in the LSA supercharger lid but post blower should be much more effective. They also already make a blank spacer that sits in the heads so just need to make it a bit bigger and house the nozzles.

[whitels1ss]

I know someone that was looking to make up a plate to go between the heads and a supercharger so it sprays directly into the cylinder. They currently make them to incorporate the nozzles in the LSA supercharger lid but post blower should be much more effective. They also already make a blank spacer that sits in the heads so just need to make it a bit bigger and house the nozzles.

Have heard of some fantastic results from people using water meth injection. :goodjob:

[BLACK 346]

Well finally found time to catch up with Brad and organise this install. As soon as he finishes off a couple of big jobs that are currently in his shop he is taking my car to install this with a custom tank. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out :) Will update with results and install photos as soon as it is done.

[whitels1ss]

Good stuff Rod, look forward to seeing how you go. :cheers:

[Micks]

Keep us posted Rod ;)

[BLACK 346]

A little off topic in my own thread, but whilst out for morning walk this morning we came across an E3 Clubby at the lights that had that real lopey tough idle (ie big cam). My wife made the comment on how good it sounded and can I make mine sound like that at idle (silly girl). I pointed out to her that my old VT sounded like that and I didn't think she liked it, her reply was yes I did, the VT sounded awesome. So long story short, how much of this idle is dictated by cam size and duration etc and how much is tuneable? My Calais only has what I would consider a small cam (VCM21) and has a somewhat loud idle but fairly tame ie no chop to it at all really. Can that be changed in the tune to a degree or would I need to go bigger cam?
Not real keen on a bigger cam as not sure how that would work with the blower, and is expensive exercise if I decide that it ruins the car? Any advice/experiences appreciated :)

[whitels1ss]

Yeah your tuner can make it sound more lumpy at idle if that's what you want. :yup:

[whitels1ss]

A very good mate of mine is having water meth & heat insulators fitted & tuned on his Whipple blown stroker this week.

It's been having issues with very high IAT's & expecting a few more killawasps when it's all done.

Looking forward to seeing the results. :yup:

[BLACK 346]

Yeah your tuner can make it sound more lumpy at idle if that's what you want. :yup:

Thanks Ed, will chat to Brad about it when I drop it off for the meth injection to be fitted.

[Micks]

Rod something also to consider with LSA FI is a lid spacer or an interchiller, this dude Kirk is building some great kits specifically for LSA.
Have a look at his quick VF LSA


https://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers/videos/1051910991605811/

[BLACK 346]

Rod something also to consider with LSA FI is a lid spacer or an interchiller, this dude Kirk is building some great kits specifically for LSA.
Have a look at his quick VF LSA


https://www.facebook.com/ForcedInductionInterchillers/videos/1051910991605811/

Thanks Mick, geez that thing is quick. From what Brad has told me the water/meth will do pretty much the same thing, reduce intake temps to near zero?

[white lie]

It will reduce them to some extent but not right down to zero. Most of the really quick LSA cars I know of run both, a chiller and water injection. Kirk's car would have had both but I believe he usually runs straight water rather than meth. Less cooling capabilities but easier to keep a tab on AFR's, especially if something ever goes wrong with the system.

[Micks]

Most chargers will be affected by heat soak, having a thermal blanket installed or lid spacers help reduce this quite a bit.

[BLACK 346]

Yeah your tuner can make it sound more lumpy at idle if that's what you want. :yup:

Brad has advised me against doing this on an Auto car due to the fact it involves messing with the timing and will cause problems at low revs ie stalling. So looks like a cam swap is my only option if i want a cranky idle.

[whitels1ss]

Brad has advised me against doing this on an Auto car due to the fact it involves messing with the timing and will cause problems at low revs ie stalling. So looks like a cam swap is my only option if i want a cranky idle.

Yeah, it can be done but it would have no practical advantages.

In the real world you are best off having any car tuned for the smoothest idle possible.


Actually I have seen quite a few people on other forums getting what is called a "Ghost Cam Tune" ( google it.. Loads of people are doing it in USA.)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&q=ghost+cam+tune

which is basically tuning a stock car to sound like it has a big aftermarket cam purely for posing. :jerk::jerk::jerk:

[whitels1ss]

Here is a link to a sound clip of one on a G8...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiKv98lvhuI

[BLACK 346]

Yeah, it can be done but it would have no practical advantages.

In the real world you are best off having any car tuned for the smoothest idle possible.


Actually I have seen quite a few people on other forums getting what is called a "Ghost Cam Tune" ( google it.. Loads of people are doing it in USA.)

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&q=ghost+cam+tune

which is basically tuning a stock car to sound like it has a big aftermarket cam purely for posing. :jerk::jerk::jerk:

This would explain a couple of real tough sounding Commodores I have come across lately that appear to be slower than stock but make more noise than an F18.

[whitels1ss]

A very good mate of mine is having water meth & heat insulators fitted & tuned on his Whipple blown stroker this week.

It's been having issues with very high IAT's & expecting a few more killawasps when it's all done.

Looking forward to seeing the results. :yup:

Got the car back now after fitting & tuning, it's picked up an amazing 50RWKW & extra torque all the way through on exactly the same Mainline dyno.

No changes to pulleys, still running the same old pump 98, just getting much lower IAT's allowing for a bit more timing etc in the tune.

Very happy with the result. :driving:

[BLACK 346]

Got the car back now after fitting & tuning, it's picked up an amazing 50RWKW & extra torque all the way through on exactly the same Mainline dyno.

No changes to pulleys, still running the same old pump 98, just getting much lower IAT's allowing for a bit more timing etc in the tune.

Very happy with the result. :driving:

That is an amazing result Ed. I guess though if you are tuning for extra power you would have to be super careful about running the water/meth resorvoir dry?

[whitels1ss]

No it's a good quality unit with all the fail safes fitted

& the tuner really knows his stuff. :goodjob:


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________




I recently also watched another youtube clip which you might find interesting.

Fast forward up to 1 minute 25 seconds & watch till the end to see the IAT differences on a turbo engine before & after fitting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2neVJhfCJho

[BLACK 346]

That is interesting, I was of the impression that if you were up it for the rent and ran out of meth, bye bye motor, hence the warning lights that come with the Snow kits? Will have another chat with Brad prior to retuning.

[white lie]

Meth injection changes the AFR. Any tuner that tells you otherwise probably shouldn't be tuning your motor. If you're on boost and run out of Meth, the AFR will be lean. Depending on how much you're squirting in there and how far they're pushing the tune, it may be somewhat safe but it's a risk none the less.

Given the recent logs of fuel pressures (or lack thereof) and maxed injector duty cycles that I've seen from well respected tuners on supercharged motors lately, I would be checking and double checking everything.

[whitels1ss]

It will be fine, one of the best tuners in the country has set it up & it's not a wild angry tune.

[BLACK 346]

Got a call from Brad yesterday and the old girl goes in middle of next week to have the kits fitted, will post results on completion for those that are interested :)

[BLACK 346]

A little off topic in my own thread, but whilst out for morning walk this morning we came across an E3 Clubby at the lights that had that real lopey tough idle (ie big cam). My wife made the comment on how good it sounded and can I make mine sound like that at idle (silly girl). I pointed out to her that my old VT sounded like that and I didn't think she liked it, her reply was yes I did, the VT sounded awesome. So long story short, how much of this idle is dictated by cam size and duration etc and how much is tuneable? My Calais only has what I would consider a small cam (VCM21) and has a somewhat loud idle but fairly tame ie no chop to it at all really. Can that be changed in the tune to a degree or would I need to go bigger cam?
Not real keen on a bigger cam as not sure how that would work with the blower, and is expensive exercise if I decide that it ruins the car? Any advice/experiences appreciated :)

Quoting myself here rather than start another thread. Is anyone running or know someone that is running the VCM16 cam? I have listened to a few sound files on the interweb and it sounds pretty good ie choppy idle. It is also marketed as a blower cam, so another bonus. Any other recommendations for a tough sounding cam that would also suit a blown car?
Cheers

[whitels1ss]

A very good mate of mine has a VCM5SC on his blown LS1 stroker, it's a grind designed specifically for superchargers.

https://www.mrcperformance.com.au/vcm-5sc-camshaft-cam-suits-holden-and-hsv-ls-v8.-s



Actually I bought some performance gear off Matt at MRC Performance 2 weeks ago & he was great to deal with & had it couriered to my front door in under 24 hours. :goodjob:

[whitels1ss]

Harrop make some great gear as well & are somewhat considered experts in supercharging.

The boys are very helpful, could be worth giving them a call and asking their advice. :yup:

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/automotive-performance/engine-components/camshafts


Edit...

The H04 might be the one you are looking for. :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_qvPkxY6I

[BLACK 346]

Harrop make some great gear as well & are somewhat considered experts in supercharging.

The boys are very helpful, could be worth giving them a call and asking their advice. :yup:

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/automotive-performance/engine-components/camshafts


Edit...

The H04 might be the one you are looking for. :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_qvPkxY6I

That is exactly what I am after Ed. Thanks for the vid. I will chat with Brad on Monday and see what he thinks. Cheers.
ps...My blower is already a lot louder and tougher sounding that that vid lol, especially combined with the gilmer drive.

Edit: I wonder if my 2500 stall will cope with that cam?

[whitels1ss]

That is exactly what I am after Ed. Thanks for the vid. I will chat with Brad on Monday and see what he thinks. Cheers.
ps...My blower is already a lot louder and tougher sounding that that vid lol, especially combined with the gilmer drive.

Edit: I wonder if my 2500 stall will cope with that cam?

I would talk to the boys at Harrop about the stall etc, they sell plenty of the stuff & have their own workshop & dyno for testing.

[BLACK 346]

I would talk to the boys at Harrop about the stall etc, they sell plenty of the stuff & have their own workshop & dyno for testing.

So does Brad mate. No point bothering a shop that doesn't know my car, nor will ever work on it :)

[whitels1ss]

So does Brad mate. No point bothering a shop that doesn't know my car, nor will ever work on it :)

I was just suggesting to ask their advice because they manufacture, fit & sell the stuff so they would know the expected results better than anyone.

[Micks]

Rod another cam to look at is the LS9 blower cam, pretty sure IJ uses one in his 408 SC was in the tonner & now his racecar.

[BLACK 346]

Rod another cam to look at is the LS9 blower cam, pretty sure IJ uses one in his 408 SC was in the tonner & now his racecar.

cheers Mick, will check it out :)

[whitels1ss]

Rod another cam to look at is the LS9 blower cam, pretty sure IJ uses one in his 408 SC was in the tonner & now his racecar.

Even though that would be a great cam,


I don't think it would give a very lopey idle Mick. :cheers:

[Wonky]

I have read a few times from people whose opinion I trust that the BTR 3 TRQ cam is awesome for blown motors and can even get away with a stock converter! :goodjob:

[Wonky]

Rod another cam to look at is the LS9 blower cam, pretty sure IJ uses one in his 408 SC was in the tonner & now his racecar.

Would NOT bother sorry Mick. Put one in my HTV1900 LS3 and after hours of tuning by the APS guru he could only safely gain 5rwkw and actually lost torque!!! :bawl: He called it a pfffft cam, I call it a WOT(M) cam - Waste Of Time (and Money). :(

[whitels1ss]

Any updates?


Have you picked another cam yet Rod? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Any updates?


Have you picked another cam yet Rod? :cheers:

Yeah, Brad talked me out of it for the time being, not worth the expense for a change in exhaust note. Going to save more coin and go stroker and forged internals down the track. I have however purchased a twin 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, so keen to get that fitted :)

[whitels1ss]

Makes sense. :yup:

How much boost & what is the rwkw has it got at the moment Rod?

[BLACK 346]

Makes sense. :yup:

How much boost & what is the rwkw has it got at the moment Rod?

10 pound. It will be getting retuned after exhaust goes on so will get up to date dyno figure then.

[whitels1ss]

How's the auto trans handling all the power?

[BLACK 346]

How's the auto trans handling all the power?

Behaving perfectly at the moment. I tend to drive it in manual mode most of the time now that I have the steering wheel paddles installed.

[whitels1ss]

Have never seen you around the place in it Rod, do you ever go to any of the local cruises or events?

[BLACK 346]

How's the auto trans handling all the power?

The trans was also a major factor in deciding against going for more power Ed. A simple pulley upgrade and re-tune would deliver a healthy power increase, but as Brad keeps warning me, at what cost :)

[BLACK 346]

Have never seen you around the place in it Rod, do you ever go to any of the local cruises or events?

I don't really get involved in the car scene these days mate, and apart from this forum am not on any social media (so would not even be aware that cruises and events are taking place). The car gets driven to my work maybe once a fortnight and comes out occasionally on a Sunday to take the wife and kids for a drive (kids are always at me to take it out lol). Other than that it sits in the shed.


I know Adelaide is a smallish City Ed, but we may just travel in different areas. I am inner Northern burbs, about 10 mins from City :)

[whitels1ss]

I don't really get involved in the car scene these days mate, and apart from this forum am not on any social media (so would not even be aware that cruises and events are taking place). The car gets driven to my work maybe once a fortnight and comes out occasionally on a Sunday to take the wife and kids for a drive (kids are always at me to take it out lol). Other than that it sits in the shed.


I know Adelaide is a smallish City Ed, but we may just travel in different areas. I am inner Northern burbs, about 10 mins from City :)

I am a fair way south & hardly ever go on any of the runs etc either maybe once or twice a year at most.

I thought you used the car every day so that explains why I wouldn't have seen it. :lol:

[whitels1ss]

The trans was also a major factor in deciding against going for more power Ed. A simple pulley upgrade and re-tune would deliver a healthy power increase, but as Brad keeps warning me, at what cost :)

I understand about that all too well. :lol:

[Micks]

Yeah, Brad talked me out of it for the time being, not worth the expense for a change in exhaust note. Going to save more coin and go stroker and forged internals down the track. I have however purchased a twin 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, so keen to get that fitted :)

Hey Rod has Brad given you any info on what is required with the stroker package eg block machining etc? Thinking of going down this path with my Crewie 6L for a freshen up.

[BLACK 346]

Hey Rod has Brad given you any info on what is required with the stroker package eg block machining etc? Thinking of going down this path with my Crewie 6L for a freshen up.

Sorry Mick, have not gone that far into it at this stage.

[Micks]

Sorry Mick, have not gone that far into it at this stage.

A few shops are quoting $12k DIDO but I might go another way with a short engine build.

[BLACK 346]

A few shops are quoting $12k DIDO but I might go another way with a short engine build.

That is a good price.

[whitels1ss]

10 pound. It will be getting retuned after exhaust goes on so will get up to date dyno figure then.

Any updates yet Rod? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Any updates yet Rod? :cheers:

Brad is in the middle of moving his shop to a new location, so have not been able to get it in. Hoping to get in later in year once he is set up in new premises.

[whitels1ss]

Brad is in the middle of moving his shop to a new location, so have not been able to get it in. Hoping to get in later in year once he is set up in new premises.

Good stuff,

Where is he moving to Rod?

[BLACK 346]

Good stuff,

Where is he moving to Rod?

Up near TTP I believe.

[BLACK 346]

Went and had a coffee with Brad and Cath again today. They are getting sorted in the new shop. Bloody big job moving a workshop, I do not envy them.

[whitels1ss]

Went and had a coffee with Brad and Cath again today. They are getting sorted in the new shop. Bloody big job moving a workshop, I do not envy them.

What is the address there Rod?

[BLACK 346]

What is the address there Rod?

29 Golden Grove Rd, Ridgehaven SA 5097. Right next door to Pedders.

[whitels1ss]

29 Golden Grove Rd, Ridgehaven SA 5097. Right next door to Pedders.

I actually went past there this morning, can't miss the big signage. :lol:

[BLACK 346]

I actually went past there this morning, can't miss the big signage. :lol:

Yeah, it is bloody huge lol.

[BLACK 346]

Two graphs, first one prior to water methanol, 2.5k Stall converter and changed to Twin 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust (was 3 inch ET/Streetfighter). Interesting how much the torque has increased with the addition of the stall converter. Now awaiting three extra nozzles and jets for the water/meth system to get those intake temps down even further. This is on 10 pound of boost, and Brad will not entertain the idea of going higher on the stock bottom end, and even more so the stock trans.

[whitels1ss]

I see that last was done at 29 degrees ambient temp,
do you know what sort of IAT's it was running?

[BLACK 346]

I see that last was done at 29 degrees ambient temp,
do you know what sort of IAT's it was running?

Was getting up to 90 degrees, Brad wants to see it under 70.

[whitels1ss]

Was getting up to 90 degrees, Brad wants to see it under 70.

Be good to see when it's done. :cheers:

Have you monitored them at all on cruise?

[BLACK 346]

Be good to see when it's done. :cheers:

Have you monitored them at all on cruise?

No Ed, I have no equipment to do that. What do you recommend for me to purchase that will enable this?

[whitels1ss]

I just use a bluetooth ELM327 OBDII adaptor with my phone,

Bought from ebay years ago, something like this one https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2017-V1-5-ELM327-OBD2-ODBII-Bluetooth-CAN-BUS-Scanner-Car-for-Torque-Android-PC/162543542197?epid=2231308542&hash=item25d8599fb5:g:WXkAAOSwTM5Y5Nxp

I have other scan stuff as well but that one is easy as I just keep it plugged in & use the "Torque" app on my phone to read it.

[Wonky]

No Ed, I have no equipment to do that. What do you recommend for me to purchase that will enable this?

I have used a scangauge for probably 10 years for reading IATs. Have increased quite a bit in price since I got mine!

6361

[BLACK 346]

I just use a bluetooth ELM327 OBDII adaptor with my phone,

Bought from ebay years ago, something like this one https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2017-V1-5-ELM327-OBD2-ODBII-Bluetooth-CAN-BUS-Scanner-Car-for-Torque-Android-PC/162543542197?epid=2231308542&hash=item25d8599fb5:g:WXkAAOSwTM5Y5Nxp

I have other scan stuff as well but that one is easy as I just keep it plugged in & use the "Torque" app on my phone to read it.

I have an older version of that sculling around somewhere, but might grab the later one you linked above and give it a try. How accurate do you think these devices are Ed?

[BLACK 346]

I have used a scangauge for probably 10 years for reading IATs. Have increased quite a bit in price since I got mine!

6361

Hey Gary, I have heard of them but never looked at buying one. Where do they plug in?

[whitels1ss]

I have an older version of that sculling around somewhere, but might grab the later one you linked above and give it a try. How accurate do you think these devices are Ed?

From what I have heard some people have problems with them not working or connecting but I have never had such problems.

I think that if they connect to the UBD on the vehicle, as the numbers on stuff like this are generated by the onboard computer on the car
& I can't see that they could make up any readings themselves
so I reckon the numbers should be as accurate a reading as any other scan gauge reading the car.

[whitels1ss]

We have a big thread on these things.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?145420-OBD2-Diagnostics-on-the-cheap-with-Android&highlight=readings+cheap

[Wonky]

Hey Gary, I have heard of them but never looked at buying one. Where do they plug in?Plug into the OBD2 port so displays exactly what the ECU works on. Just unplugs for tuning etc though at one stage I had a second thing which also plugged into the OBD2 port so got a Y adapter.

There are also these which I have no idea about. https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/engine-data-scan-computer.html

Look very similar but much cheaper.

PS IAT readings of course rely on where the IAT sensor is positioned and I've seen and heard of some crazy ones trying to fool the ECU and potentially risking blowing up the engine!

[BLACK 346]

Plug into the OBD2 port so displays exactly what the ECU works on. Just unplugs for tuning etc though at one stage I had a second thing which also plugged into the OBD2 port so got a Y adapter.

There are also these which I have no idea about. https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/engine-data-scan-computer.html

Look very similar but much cheaper.

PS IAT readings of course rely on where the IAT sensor is positioned and I've seen and heard of some crazy ones trying to fool the ECU and potentially risking blowing up the engine!

Thanks Gary. I like the look of that one in the link, you could probably even mount it with double sided tape on top of the steering column and hide the cable. I see it doesn't list VE V8's in the compatibility list (only V6) but surely it would work. Might email them and ask.

[Wonky]

Can't see why it wouldn't? I've got mine mounted on my pod with double sided tape. Haven't got any pics in Senator but same as it was in my SSV ute.
6368

[BLACK 346]

Got the EDS today, mounted it on the steering column. Happy with where it sits, just got to work out how to customize the display now :)

Went for a quick drive and after about 30 minutes Intake temps reached a max of about 67 degrees, but it is only about 27 here today.

Thanks again Gaz for the link.

[whitels1ss]

Got the EDS today, mounted it on the steering column. Happy with where it sits, just got to work out how to customize the display now :)

Went for a quick drive and after about 30 minutes Intake temps reached a max of about 67 degrees, but it is only about 27 here today.

Thanks again Gaz for the link.

Looks good Rod. :cheers:

Lurve your average fuel at 21.9 :lol:

[BLACK 346]

Looks good Rod. :cheers:

Lurve your average fuel at 21.9 :lol:

Cheers Ed. And yeah, wouldn't that scare off a few prospective buyers lol.

[whitels1ss]

Cheers Ed. And yeah, wouldn't that scare off a few prospective buyers lol.

:lmao: It's very simple rocket science, you cannot create power without burning fuel. :teach:


It just looks like you have been enjoying driving it. :idea:


Mine will drop down to around 11 on the highway but most of the time it sits on about 16 around town.

I still have to get a couple of very minor things adjusted in my tune but have been having problems with the transmission
& the trans has to come out again before I go back to my tuner.

(My IAT's were sitting around 50 today which I am quite happy with as the sensor is in the intake manifold, sitting on top of a hot, running engine.)

[BLACK 346]

I can get 11's on the hwy but would have to get the Mrs to push if I wanted 16's around town. High 19's is about normal for my work commute, with ave speed about 38kmh.

[whitels1ss]

I can get 11's on the hwy but would have to get the Mrs to push if I wanted 16's around town. High 19's is about normal for my work commute, with ave speed about 38kmh.

Mine is about 250kg's lighter than yours. :yup:

[BLACK 346]

What is up with your trans Ed, norhing too serious I hope?

[BLACK 346]

Mine is about 250kg's lighter than yours. :yup:

Yes, good point.

[whitels1ss]

Have you got a truetrac in your car?

[Wonky]

Mine is around 14 @ 50kmh ave (cammed ute was 15 @ same speed with well over 100rwkw less). At cruise on highway my IATs are around 18 - 20C above ambient thanks to thermal blanket. Not bad for an "old" HTV not renowned for efficient cooling.

[whitels1ss]

What is up with your trans Ed, norhing too serious I hope?

It's been built with lots of good bits but had problems with stupid simple crap things.

It's now got a slight leak, I think there is a problem with my housing & my trans guy is going to swap everything into another housing in the next week or so.

[whitels1ss]

Mine is around 14 @ 50kmh ave.
At cruise on highway my IATs are around 18 - 20C above ambient
thanks to thermal blanket.

Have you got insulator spacers as well Gary?

[BLACK 346]

Have you got a truetrac in your car?

Not in the VE Ed, had one in the VT2 SS and loved it, but never felt the need for one with the VE. Just have a 3:45 LSD out of an SS.

[Wonky]

Have you got insulator spacers as well Gary?

Not the expensive fiinterchiller ones though I did have some sort of spacers from Harrop IIRC at about $100 the pr plus fitting. Don't know if they're still on it or if they made way for the thermal blanket. Must remember to ask one day....... :doh:

[whitels1ss]

Not the expensive fiinterchiller ones though I did have some sort of spacers from Harrop IIRC at about $100 the pr plus fitting. Don't know if they're still on it or if they made way for the thermal blanket. Must remember to ask one day....... :doh:

Harrop don't normally supply them with the kit, they cost around an extra $450+ & lift up the blower about 10mm
you can see them between the heads & the blower manifold, they are normally a charcoal / black colour.

https://fiinterchillers.com/shop/product/blower-spacer-plates-ls1-ls2/

(They also have some other interesting gear at that shop if you look around the web page.)

The thermal blanket costs around $100.

[Micks]

lift up the blower about 100mm :shock::shock::shock:

[whitels1ss]

:shock::shock::shock:

Sorry, my typo... 10mm :doh::doh::doh:

(Edited/fixed now):doh:

[white lie]

If you're thinking of buying spacers, 100% get the FII ones, not cheap copies from another "big name". FII use a high strength plastic imported from Germany, the copies are made in China from a much cheaper material. This is the result of fitting the copies...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200107/76cd71384a797f8a8f3a4b775a54c584.jpg

[Micks]

If you're thinking of buying spacers, 100% get the FII ones, not cheap copies from another "big name". FII use a high strength plastic imported from Germany, the copies are made in China from a much cheaper material. This is the result of fitting the copies...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200107/76cd71384a797f8a8f3a4b775a54c584.jpg

Yes I heard that too, best keep away from the cheap china copies.

[Wonky]

Harrop don't normally supply them with the kit, they cost around an extra $450+ & lift up the blower about 10mm
you can see them between the heads & the blower manifold, they are normally a charcoal / black colour.

The thermal blanket costs around $100.

I guess APS must have bought a bulk lot from Harrop as they supplied and fitted them. The thermal blanket I bought when I got the 12L reservoir and as you say Ed, was about $100.

[BLACK 346]

According to the EDS my IAT's today fluctuated between 70 and 80, that was on a 27 degree day with just normal driving in heavy traffic. Might have to look at one of these thermal blankets if the extra methanol jets dont help. How much labour is involved in fitting them?

[whitels1ss]

According to the EDS my IAT's today fluctuated between 70 and 80, that was on a 27 degree day with just normal driving in heavy traffic. Might have to look at one of these thermal blankets if the extra methanol jets dont help. How much labour is involved in fitting them?

Methanol jets won't make any difference in traffic during normal driving Rod
because it only injects the water meth after you get over a set level of boost.

The thermal blanket & spacers look like very good value though.

[BLACK 346]

Methanol jets won't make any difference in traffic during normal driving Rod
because it only injects the water meth after you get over a set level of boost.

The thermal blanket & spacers look like very good value though.

They sure do Ed, dependent on the labour cost to fit.

[whitels1ss]

When you think about it, the IAT's are measured inside a heat soaked metal intake manifold / supercharger
which is sitting on top of a very hot engine.

It only stands to reason the temps might get high,
it's not the same as measuring the temperature of intake air going through a plastic OTR from in front of the engine.

[whitels1ss]

They sure do Ed, dependent on the labour cost to fit.

That would be an easy job for you to do at home Rod. :idea:

[Wonky]

The thermal blanket & spacers look like very good value though.

Agree 100% if you do both at the same time (unlike me :doh:). I've now done both (assuming the spacers didn't make way for the blanket), plus upgraded my pump to a Varimax running at fixed speed (didn't make any noticeable difference) but the biggest difference was the 12L reservoir. IATs now take much longer to rise but TBH don't seem to take any much longer to come down again.

[whitels1ss]

Agree 100% if you do both at the same time (unlike me :doh:). I've now done both (assuming the spacers didn't make way for the blanket), plus upgraded my pump to a Varimax running at fixed speed (didn't make any noticeable difference) but the biggest difference was the 12L reservoir. IATs now take much longer to rise but TBH don't seem to take any much longer to come down again.

Did you need to fit a longer front drive belt when you put the spacers in Gary?

[BLACK 346]

I am going to have a chat with Brad about one of these thermal blankets. From memory, last time I spoke with him he wasn't a fan, cannot remember the reason though. Seeing Wonky's 18-20 above ambient compared to mine, it seems a no brainer to to fit one.

[Wonky]

Did you need to fit a longer front drive belt when you put the spacers in Gary?
Good point Ed which makes me think they're probably still there as from memory when that was done both the front (longer) and rear belts were replaced at the same time as were fairly worn after 8 years, but not many kms. :)

Do you reckon I should be able to tell if thermal spacers are still on?

6413

[Micks]

I am going to have a chat with Brad about one of these thermal blankets. From memory, last time I spoke with him he wasn't a fan, cannot remember the reason though. Seeing Wonky's 18-20 above ambient compared to mine, it seems a no brainer to to fit one.

Rod those IAT's are getting up to the higher side aye! Is one of my reservations of going that route as I know heatsoak comes into play also with all LS's

[BLACK 346]

Rod those IAT's are getting up to the higher side aye! Is one of my reservations of going that route as I know heatsoak comes into play also with all LS's

Yeah Mick, I am not happy with them. Also, what are peoples idle speed for their VE autos? Is mine a tad high?

[Micks]

Yeah Mick, I am not happy with them. Also, what are peoples idle speed for their VE autos? Is mine a tad high?

Does seem high for an auto, Brad may have set this up a bit for the LSA blower perhaps mate?

[Wonky]

Will try to remember to double check next time I use my car (probably Fri) but am 99% sure my typical idle speed once warm is around 625rpm (600 - 650).

[whitels1ss]

Do you reckon I should be able to tell if thermal spacers are still on?

6413

If they are on there you can see the spacers easily between the heads and the supercharger manifold, they stand out like dogs b@lls. :yup:

[whitels1ss]

Will try to remember to double check next time I use my car (probably Fri) but am 99% sure my typical idle speed once warm is around 625rpm (600 - 650).

Mine is sitting a bit higher than I would like, my tuner is going to adjust it down the next time I see him.

[white lie]

I am going to have a chat with Brad about one of these thermal blankets. From memory, last time I spoke with him he wasn't a fan, cannot remember the reason though. Seeing Wonky's 18-20 above ambient compared to mine, it seems a no brainer to to fit one.What heat exchanger, pump and reservoir are you using? They're different superchargers so there will be some differences but 80+ degrees seems like it's not cooling the charge air anywhere near as efficiently as it should be.

If its the standard LSA stuff, check the pump is still running. If there's air in the system it will shut itself off after 10 seconds or so. And they're a PITA to bleed.

[BLACK 346]

What heat exchanger, pump and reservoir are you using? They're different superchargers so there will be some differences but 80+ degrees seems like it's not cooling the charge air anywhere near as efficiently as it should be.

If its the standard LSA stuff, check the pump is still running. If there's air in the system it will shut itself off after 10 seconds or so. And they're a PITA to bleed.

Thanks mate, will check this out. It is the PWR coolet out of the Maggy kit, with a davies craig pump and a fairly small resorvoir, I would say a litre at most.

[white lie]

A litre won't be helping the cause at all, there's no headroom. The hot coolant is just recirculating thru the system. I'd put a bigger reservoir on it before anything else (it's cheap and effective) but check there's no air in the system. The FII ones are a good size and fit in out of the way if you can re-route your hoses there.

[BLACK 346]

A litre won't be helping the cause at all, there's no headroom. The hot coolant is just recirculating thru the system. I'd put a bigger reservoir on it before anything else (it's cheap and effective) but check there's no air in the system. The FII ones are a good size and fit in out of the way if you can re-route your hoses there.

Thanks mate, will check this out. Where do they mount?, I don't have a lot of real estate left under the bonnet unfortunately :(

[white lie]

It mounts in the cabin air intake box so doesn't take up any real estate at all. 12L capacity.

https://fiinterchillers.com/reservoirs/

[BLACK 346]

It mounts in the cabin air intake box so doesn't take up any real estate at all. 12L capacity.

https://fiinterchillers.com/reservoirs/

Cheers mate, I totally misread that and thought it mounted behind headlight where my pod filter is.

[BLACK 346]

Spoke with Brad, he thinks I should cut some holes in the plastic tray under the front of the car and get more air into the intercooler. He reckons the Calais has a very small opening compared to a HSV and is restricting air flow through the intercooler.

[Wonky]

Thanks mate, will check this out. It is the PWR coolet out of the Maggy kit, with a davies craig pump and a fairly small resorvoir, I would say a litre at most.

From my reading of the webpage where Lingenfelter tested various intercooler pumps the Davies-Craig type pumps have good specs but only under no restrictions and die in the arse in a complete system with bends and other restrictions. Unfortunately lingenfelter.com seem to have deleted all their forum pages.

My before and after with the 12L reservoir - even more space as no more 1L reservoir. :)

6415

[Wonky]

My idle speed in Park is 540 - 580 RPM, in Drive about 100 RPM more.

[BLACK 346]

My idle speed in Park is 540 - 580 RPM, in Drive about 100 RPM more.

Thanks Wonky. I hit Brad up about mine yesterday, he reckons it is spot on for a cammed auto.

[Wonky]

I'm obviously no expert but 840 rpm does seem a bit high??? Mine is cammed and blown, though only a small cam and obviously an A6. My SSV ute was also cammed auto and didn't idle much, if anything higher. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiPGgIZSLm8

[BLACK 346]

I'm obviously no expert but 840 rpm does seem a bit high??? Mine is cammed and blown, though only a small cam and obviously an A6. My SSV ute was also cammed auto and didn't idle much, if anything higher. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiPGgIZSLm8

Yeah, I dont get why either mate, it is only a small VCM21 cam.

[BLACK 346]

Mine is 830-900 in drive, 838-910 in park.

[BLACK 346]

Thanks mate, will check this out. It is the PWR coolet out of the Maggy kit, with a davies craig pump and a fairly small resorvoir, I would say a litre at most.

So, after quizzing Brad on this he advised me to check the resorvoir and see if I can detect any flow through it. I have done this and I am buggered if I can see flow, how obvious should it be in a small resorvoir? The inlet and outlet hoses are top and bottom, so about 20cm apart, would you even see any flow with this setup?

Edit: Removing the plastic under tray hasn't seemed to do anything, drove it into the city last night, ambient temp 19 degress, IAT's were up to around 62 and stable by the time I got back home. I am sure that if I were on the freeway doing 110 it would be a different story, but that is about 1 percent of my driving at the moment.

[Wonky]

The video the guy who changed my pump (not APS) to a Varimax sent me after done.

https://vimeo.com/384299098

[Micks]

As Wonky is eluding to with any pump if you see no aeration at the reservoir the pumps is not doing it's job! :teach:

[white lie]

40+ above ambient when you're not giving it a hard time sounds like the pump isn't on. Can you reach the pump to listen/feel if it's on? Otherwise syringe a little liquid out so you can see the inlet to check the flow.

I don't know if your pump has a safety switch in it to turn off if it detects air, otherwise it might be something simple like the fuse.

There is also an issue with the LSA intercooler cores collapsing at the end which inhibits flow thru it. Could be possible that it's bent and causing a bottle neck if there's very little flow.

[Micks]

40+ above ambient when you're not giving it a hard time sounds like the pump isn't on. Can you reach the pump to listen/feel if it's on? Otherwise syringe a little liquid out so you can see the inlet to check the flow.

I don't know if your pump has a safety switch in it to turn off if it detects air, otherwise it might be something simple like the fuse.

There is also an issue with the LSA intercooler cores collapsing at the end which inhibits flow thru it. Could be possible that it's bent and causing a bottle neck if there's very little flow.

Yes common issue with the LSA internal brick either distorting or rupturing, you can have it removed & braced to overcome this problem.

[whitels1ss]

The video the guy who changed my pump (not APS) to a Varimax sent me after done.

https://vimeo.com/384299098

Mine flows about at about the same speed.

[BLACK 346]

40+ above ambient when you're not giving it a hard time sounds like the pump isn't on. Can you reach the pump to listen/feel if it's on? Otherwise syringe a little liquid out so you can see the inlet to check the flow.

I don't know if your pump has a safety switch in it to turn off if it detects air, otherwise it might be something simple like the fuse.

There is also an issue with the LSA intercooler cores collapsing at the end which inhibits flow thru it. Could be possible that it's bent and causing a bottle neck if there's very little flow.

Finally got around to doing this today, you are spot on mate, there is no flow whatsoever. I even pulled one of the pipes off and absolutely no suction. Now to try and trouble shoot it.
The fuse seems fine (it has an inline fuse under the engine bay). I assume the pump should be running all the time when the engine is running? This would certainly be accounting for some of that 40 above ambient IAT's that I am seeing, surely. Yesterday morning 18 degrees on way to work, by the time I got to work (22km) it was rock solid on 58 degrees IAT.

[Micks]

Rod might need to put a voltmeter across the leads to the pump to ensure it's getting power. If the pump is electrically operating then perhaps as mentioned above it has a shit load of air in the system, sometimes can be a real pain to purge them too.

[BLACK 346]

Rod might need to put a voltmeter across the leads to the pump to ensure it's getting power. If the pump is electrically operating then perhaps as mentioned above it has a shit load of air in the system, sometimes can be a real pain to purge them too.

Thanks Mick, Brad just rang me and said same. If it is getting power need to pull the hoses off the blower and force some air through in case the pump has an air lock and is cavitating. Off to try these things now.

[whitels1ss]

Finally got around to doing this today, you are spot on mate, there is no flow whatsoever. I even pulled one of the pipes off and absolutely no suction. Now to try and trouble shoot it.
The fuse seems fine (it has an inline fuse under the engine bay). I assume the pump should be running all the time when the engine is running? This would certainly be accounting for some of that 40 above ambient IAT's that I am seeing, surely. Yesterday morning 18 degrees on way to work, by the time I got to work (22km) it was rock solid on 58 degrees IAT.

I would have thought that Brad would have noticed if it was not pumping when he looked at it. Might have faulted since?

I have wired up my pump so it goes on as soon as either ignition or accessory position is switched on & can certainly hear it running.

[BLACK 346]

I would have thought that Brad would have noticed if it was not pumping when he looked at it. Might have faulted since?

I have wired up my pump so it goes on as soon as either ignition or accessory position is switched on & can certainly hear it running.

Just pulled the plug off the pump and there is definitely power to the plug when the ignition is on. Cannot hear nor feel pump running with hand on it. I guess next step is replacement.

[Micks]

:yup: faulty pump easy fix.

[BLACK 346]

:yup: faulty pump easy fix.

Yep, just have to decide what pump considering that Davies craig was about $180 and lasted about 5,000 km. I like the varimax that Gary mentioned, can't seem to get it in oz, so might have to order from o/s.

[whitels1ss]

Mine is a Bosch similar to this one




https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/water-intercooler-pump-1200-lph

[BLACK 346]

Mine is a Bosch similar to this one




https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/water-intercooler-pump-1200-lph

Thanks Ed, was looking at that one, then saw this one also. Says it is used in the blown Mustangs and is developed by Bosch and Ford.

http://www.sonicperformance.com.au/0-392-022-002/Bosch-Water-to-Air-Intercooler-Circulation-Pump/pd.php

[Micks]

Davies craig was about $180 and lasted about 5,000 km

Never really like DC stuff, bought one of their Thermatic fan thermostats once for one of my early Holden projects, no matter what I did it always leaked & was installed exactly how they instructed.
In the end I bought a Honda thermostat with an adapter & no problems.

[BLACK 346]

Never really like DC stuff, bought one of their Thermatic fan thermostats once for one of my early Holden projects, no matter what I did it always leaked & was installed exactly how they instructed.
In the end I bought a Honda thermostat with an adapter & no problems.

Was talking to Brad about them, he reckons good years ago but have dropped the ball.

[whitels1ss]

Thanks Ed, was looking at that one, then saw this one also. Says it is used in the blown Mustangs and is developed by Bosch and Ford.

http://www.sonicperformance.com.au/0-392-022-002/Bosch-Water-to-Air-Intercooler-Circulation-Pump/pd.php

Both pumps have exactly the same SKU number which is...... "0 392 022 002"

& the one you listed shows the manufacturer to be "Bosch" as well

I reckon it is exactly the same pump Rod. :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Both pumps have exactly the same SKU number which is...... "0 392 022 002"

& the one you listed shows the manufacturer to be "Bosch" as well

I reckon it is exactly the same pump Rod. :cheers:

Thanks Ed, well spotted. Would be same EV1 connector as my existing pump also.

[Wonky]

My idle.

https://vimeo.com/385658242

[whitels1ss]

Rod, seen some more which look the same even cheaper on ebay

like...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOSCH-OEM-INTERCOOLER-WATER-PUMP-0392022002-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-L494-5-0-4x4/223543618457?hash=item340c3ceb99:g:rn4AAOSwAOVdSGZ 7

[whitels1ss]

Don't know anything about this one on ebay

but it pumps 2,000 litres per hour & appears comes with a mounting bracket.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Premium-Intercooler-Coolant-Water-Pump-12v-Brushless-34L-Min/323800990733?hash=item4b640b040d:g:mx4AAOSwM5Nc0nL K

[BLACK 346]

Rod, seen some more which look the same even cheaper on ebay

like...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOSCH-OEM-INTERCOOLER-WATER-PUMP-0392022002-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-L494-5-0-4x4/223543618457?hash=item340c3ceb99:g:rn4AAOSwAOVdSGZ 7

Thanks Ed, exactly the same part number but $50 cheaper. I have already ordered the other one but they never got back to me with payment details, so may just cancel the order and grab that one. Cheers mate :)

[whitels1ss]

Thanks Ed, exactly the same part number but $50 cheaper. I have already ordered the other one but they never got back to me with payment details, so may just cancel the order and grab that one. Cheers mate :)

Good stuff Rod. :cheers:

[whitels1ss]

Hey Rod, have you noticed any pinging or lack of power from your engine with the high IAT's?

[BLACK 346]

Hey Rod, have you noticed any pinging or lack of power from your engine with the high IAT's?

No pinging Ed, but it does feel a bit flat once those IAT climb.

[BLACK 346]

I threw a Nulon pro strength octane booster in yesterday just as a precaution.

[white lie]

Probably worth hitting up DC for a warranty claim, even if to sell it and recoup some of the costs. They're meant to have 2 years warranty.

Octane booster will only help if it's detecting knock and pulling timing. If the tune is set up to pull timing with the higher IAT's (which it should be) then it won't do anything.

[BLACK 346]

Probably worth hitting up DC for a warranty claim, even if to sell it and recoup some of the costs. They're meant to have 2 years warranty.

Octane booster will only help if it's detecting knock and pulling timing. If the tune is set up to pull timing with the higher IAT's (which it should be) then it won't do anything.

I doubt I would still have the receipt, so probably not worth the effort. No idea how long I have been driving it like this, so I reckon Brad has the tune setup like you say, I have never heard it ping. The octane booster was on the shelf left over from our great ocean road trip last year, I was looking for an excuse to use it :)

[BLACK 346]

Luckily Auspost deliver on Saturday's. Looks like a pretty straight forward swap and hopefully this solves some of my issues :)

[whitels1ss]

Good stuff Rod, that looks exactly the same as mine from memory. :goodjob:

[BLACK 346]

Good stuff Rod, that looks exactly the same as mine from memory. :goodjob:

Really hoping this fixes the problem, otherwise I am stumped. Have the old one out and pulled apart as much as it will allow and it looks fine. I am hoping it has failed inside the part that I cannot open, and it did have some oil like substance on the bottom of it when I pulled it out.

I assume running the new one dry for a few seconds to see if it works is not a good idea? ie The coolant keep the pump cool?

[Micks]

I would fit it & purge first Rod.

[whitels1ss]

Really hoping this fixes the problem, otherwise I am stumped. Have the old one out and pulled apart as much as it will allow and it looks fine. I am hoping it has failed inside the part that I cannot open, and it did have some oil like substance on the bottom of it when I pulled it out.

I assume running the new one dry for a few seconds to see if it works is not a good idea? ie The coolant keep the pump cool?

I assume you have been using the correct quality coolant with it,
Harrop recommend a 50/50 mix of the red coloured GM coolant with demineralised water
& importantly to change the coolant at least every 12 months.

Has your intercooler radiator got a bleeder on the top that you can get at?

[BLACK 346]

I assume you have been using the correct quality coolant with it,
Harrop recommend a 50/50 mix of the red coloured GM coolant with demineralised water
& importantly to change the coolant at least every 12 months.

Has your intercooler radiator got a bleeder on the top that you can get at?

Yeah, 50/50 dexcool, will try and find bleed valve. Cheers

[whitels1ss]

Yeah, 50/50 dexcool, will try and find bleed valve. Cheers

On mine, I just have to remove the infill panel from over the top of the radiator/radiator support panel
& there is a little bleeder nipple (same as brake caliper) on the top of the intercooler radiator.

[BLACK 346]

On mine, I just have to remove the infill panel from over the top of the radiator/radiator support panel
& there is a little bleeder nipple (same as brake caliper) on the top of the intercooler radiator.

Found it thanks Ed, but unfortunately after all my efforts I am back to square one :(

Did not make any difference. Pump does not appear to run, and no flow through resorvoir. Bloody infuriating.

[BLACK 346]

Pulled the hoses off the front of the blower and no coolant at all. Something more sinister maybe? The pump does not even try to run though, you would think a brand new pump would at least try and run or make some sort of noise.

[BLACK 346]

It is a Christmas miracle lol. After much rooting around I ended up filling the top blower hose by hand so that the coolant ran down to the pump. With the bleed nipple open it seemed to be taking a lot more than was coming out of the nipple. After about half a litre like magic coolant start flowing out of the blower outlet. Whilst I cannot hear the pump nor feel it running it is definitely warm to touch. Went for a 30 minute drive around the suburbs and the highest IAT I saw was 16 above ambient when I was on boost, then it would quickly drop back and sit rock solid on 14 above ambient until I gave it some stick. Even sitting at the lights for about 90 seconds it did not budge off 39 degrees IAT. Very happy, thanks for all that assisted, much appreciated.

Edit: Nearly forgot to mention, I feel like I am driving a blown V8 again as well, what a different it has made to power.

[whitels1ss]

Great stuff Rod! :cheers:

[Micks]

Enjoy Rod! :goodjob:

[BLACK 346]

Well my joy was short lived. Went for a drive to lobethal today via chain of ponds, intake temps 40 over ambient again :(
Is it possible that air remains in the system and is causing issues? Two drives yesterday and never saw more than 18 over ambient.

[whitels1ss]

Could it be an intermittent wiring fault perhaps?

Have you removed the intercooler coolant cap while the car is running to see if there is flow?

[whitels1ss]

Have you checked the earth side of the pump wiring?

(I know you said previously you checked & it had power.)

[Micks]

Perhaps it's been wired off the ignition side only & drawing too much current, should really have a power relay triggered off the ignition when the engine runs.

[whitels1ss]

Perhaps it's been wired off the ignition side only & drawing too much current, should really have a power relay triggered off the ignition when the engine runs.

I would think Brad that would have wired it through the correct relay but that could have faulted.

[BLACK 346]

Yes, power to one terminal of the plug and is running through a relay. It has power as soon as ignition is on, no need for engine running. No visible glow througj resorvoir, but there wasnt yesterday either when temps were right down. Might replace relay, cheap way to rule that out. Even coasting down hills through Heyson tunnels they stayed at 61 degrees, outside was 25.

[BLACK 346]

Have you checked the earth side of the pump wiring?

(I know you said previously you checked & it had power.)

Will check earth side, never thought about that. Also will replace relay. It is wired to one of the coil packs I believe.

[whitels1ss]

I would try jumping direct power to the pump & see if you can see flow in the reservoir & hear the pump running.

As I said my pump looks exactly the same & I can hear it pumping as soon as it's switched on
& I can see the flow in the reservoir the same as in the video someone posted previously.

[whitels1ss]

If your pump is pushing through the rated 1,200 litres per hour (that's 20 litres a minute)

you should be able to see cavitation of coolant in the reservoir.

[whitels1ss]

Could you have a kinked over hose blocking or restricting the flow?

[Micks]

Rod reckon you are chasing possible loose wire, bad earth or faulty relay.

[Wonky]

Even coasting down hills through Heyson tunnels they stayed at 61 degrees, outside was 25.
I've found coasting doesn't really cool temps down as much as cruising at constant speed.

[BLACK 346]

The current relay has no markings, I assume this would do the job? Current one is 5 pin but only 4 in use.

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/narva-relay-12v-4pin-40a-bl-pack/SPO3954359.html

[Micks]

The current relay has no markings, I assume this would do the job? Current one is 5 pin but only 4 in use.

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/narva-relay-12v-4pin-40a-bl-pack/SPO3954359.html

Rod would say the normally closed pin 5 is probably not used. Just a matter of checking the diagram on top of the relay most have them.

[whitels1ss]

Here is a picture of the top of mine, it has an inbuilt 10 amp fuse

6457

[Wonky]

I can't comment on mine except to say that the numbnut auto elec who did the original install cost me a lot of money when I had the Varimax pump installed by wiring it to what to me and the auto elec who eventually traced it was a stupid spot! The fuse for the ECU down in the footwell!!! The local guy who installed the new pump turned it over as shown in previous video of the pump working then switched off (I think). Next time he tried to start it, absolutely nothing. He spent hours trying to trace wiring (bodgy wiring at best as he soon discovered) and fuses etc before giving up. Had to get it trucked 24km to my auto elec to sort out. He wired it up properly!

[BLACK 346]

Update. I have replaced relay with brand new item, checked all hoses for Kinks (Thanks Ed). Still exactly the same. If I take both hoses off front of blower and force air through the bottom hose I get a trickle through the top out of the blower. Other than that nothing that give me any confidence that the pump is actually pumping. It make no noise whatsoever :(
I know the pump is up to it as Ed is running the same one. Bit over this to be honest, these modded cars are great until they start not being great any more. On top of this the passenger side speakers decided to stop working, so something else to waste my time on. Not sure why two doors on one side would stop and everything else keeps working. Below is the wiring I am dealing with, not sure where to start with that, considering I have little to no experience with electrics.

[whitels1ss]

That wiring looks very dodgy to me Rod. :shock:


I would disconnect the positive power wire from the coil pack & see if the pump fires if it is (jump) connected to the positive side of the fuse box. :idea:

The problem could also be one of those joints in that clump of red wiring. (Looks like there are a few wires spliced together along there.)

Be good if you could check the continuity of that red wire (obviously make sure that the red wire is the positive!)
or even unplug it from the relay & jump another fused power supply wire to the relay where it plugs on to the relay.

If something is faulty there the relay my not be getting switching power to fire it.

[Micks]

Yes agree with Ed, whoever done that wiring should give it away! Huge chance of a high resistance joint in any of that mess!

[whitels1ss]

Went for a drive in a mate's WH II Caprice this afternoon,
it has a head & cammed stroker LS1, forged bottom end with a 2,900 Whipple.
It has insulators on it & a Snow water meth kit which is progressive & starts to spray at 5psi boost.

When he gave it a couple of small squirts on a very long steep hill, you could see the IAT's drop when the water meth started spraying.

[BLACK 346]

Went for a drive in a mate's WH II Caprice this afternoon,
it has a head & cammed stroker LS1, forged bottom end with a 2,900 Whipple.
It has insulators on it & a Snow water meth kit which is progressive & starts to spray at 5psi boost.

When he gave it a couple of small squirts on a very long steep hill, you could see the IAT's drop when the water meth started spraying.

Something is amiss with my setup Ed, the water meth is certainly not dropping IAT under boost. I also wonder how much this affected my recent dyno figures?

[whitels1ss]

Something is amiss with my setup Ed, the water meth is certainly not dropping IAT under boost. I also wonder how much this affected my recent dyno figures?

It was most likely all working correctly when it was on the dyno, I think a fault must have developed after.

[BLACK 346]

It was most likely all working correctly when it was on the dyno, I think a fault must have developed after.

The IAT's were pushing 80 whilst on the dyno. Anyway, spoke with Brad and dropping it off tomorrow after work so he can have a look when he gets time. Hopefully something simple.

[whitels1ss]

Hope he sorts it quickly for you mate! :cheers:

[Wonky]

The IAT's were pushing 80 whilst on the dyno. Anyway, spoke with Brad and dropping it off tomorrow after work so he can have a look when he gets time. Hopefully something simple.

Yikes! Luis said mine reached 54C on the dyno max. Depends on strength of fan etc..

[BLACK 346]

Yikes! Luis said mine reached 54C on the dyno max. Depends on strength of fan etc..

That sounds more like I would expect Gary. Will have to go back and see what temp was that day, i think was around 30 and workshop has AC.

[whitels1ss]

That sounds more like I would expect Gary. Will have to go back and see what temp was that day, i think was around 30 and workshop has AC.

Rod, from memory, I think it was printed on your dyno sheet.

[whitels1ss]

Rod, from memory, I think it was printed on your dyno sheet.


See post number 71 from 19/12/2019


It was 29 degrees, (bottom line of the print, just above the top graph)

I have copied it for you here.....

6464

[white lie]

I think there's still air in the system. The stock LSA system is an absolute PITA to bleed properly. The workshop manual says to do it under vacuum!
If you're doing it at home, you pretty much need 2 people. Flick the car on and off as the pump tries to prime then turns off so to keep it running you need to flick it on for 5-10 seconds then off again and keep going until it's bled.

Easiest way on your own I guess is to put a big container of coolant above the pump so it forces it's way down and thru the system but it's a pain to get it out of the loop without losing coolant. There isn't a big margin for losing coolant before the pump shuts off due to air.
1L in the reservoir doesn't have enough weight behind it, which is why the 12L reservoir works well. 12kg of coolant vs 1kg.

If you're running meth as well, it sounds like both systems have issues.

Anyway, if it's gone back to Brad, hopefully he sorts it out easily.

[whitels1ss]

I think there's still air in the system. The stock LSA system is an absolute PITA to bleed properly. The workshop manual says to do it under vacuum!
If you're doing it at home, you pretty much need 2 people. Flick the car on and off as the pump tries to prime then turns off so to keep it running you need to flick it on for 5-10 seconds then off again and keep going until it's bled.

Easiest way on your own I guess is to put a big container of coolant above the pump so it forces it's way down and thru the system but it's a pain to get it out of the loop without losing coolant. There isn't a big margin for losing coolant before the pump shuts off due to air.
1L in the reservoir doesn't have enough weight behind it, which is why the 12L reservoir works well. 12kg of coolant vs 1kg.


Is there a high point in the hose from the bottom of the reservoir feeding to the pump that traps air (like an air lock) or something?

[BLACK 346]

Is there a high point in the hose from the bottom of the reservoir feeding to the pump that traps air (like an air lock) or something?

It goes straight down Ed.

[Wonky]

Not that it matters for Rod as his isn't an LSA but FWIW I did read somewhere that someone had found a quick way to purge and prime an LSA system. Just can't remember where....... :doh:

[whitels1ss]

Not that it matters for Rod as his isn't an LSA

Actually Rod has an LSA blower fitted AFAIK Gary. :yup:

[BLACK 346]

I found an easy way as well, get Brad to do it lol. Dropped it off at 1500, picked it up at 1700 all fixed. Was dodgy earth and the electrical plug wasnt 100 percent either. It is pumping like a champ now. IAT never got more than 10 above ambient on way home.

[whitels1ss]

Fantastic news Rod :goodjob:

Did you ask him why the IAT's were so high last time on the dyno?

[Wonky]

Actually Rod has an LSA blower fitted AFAIK Gary. :yup:
Oops! :doh: :doh: Hopefully he hasn't got the same array as the VF re pump location etc..

[BLACK 346]

Oops! :doh: :doh: Hopefully he hasn't got the same array as the VF re pump location etc..

Pump is located behind fog light on passenger side.

[BLACK 346]

Fantastic news Rod :goodjob:

Did you ask him why the IAT's were so high last time on the dyno?

Nah, he was pretty busy. I will ask him next time I see him Ed.

[whitels1ss]

How's the car been going lately Rod?

[BLACK 346]

How's the car been going lately Rod?

IAT's sorted Ed, max I see now is about 13 above ambient, and today on Freeway to Murray Bridge max of 9 above. All is not perfect though, every now and then when stuck in traffic the car will stall when braking. It is random and we are unsure what is causing it. Will be perfect one minute then out of the blue will idle down and not recover.

[whitels1ss]

The intermittent stalling is strange.

Is it easy to start again after it stalls?

[Micks]

I smell some type of vac leak, though can be proven wrong!

[BLACK 346]

I smell some type of vac leak, though can be proven wrong!

That was my first thought Mick. Finding it will not be easy though.

[BLACK 346]

The intermittent stalling is strange.

Is it easy to start again after it stalls?

Yes, it fires straight back up and runs like nothing happened.

[whitels1ss]

Yes, it fires straight back up and runs like nothing happened.

Have you put a scanner on it & checked to see if there are any codes?

[BLACK 346]

Have you put a scanner on it & checked to see if there are any codes?

No codes that either of my cheaper scanners can detect Ed. Might run it down to a mechanic I know on the weekend, his workshop scanner picks up codes that mine miss.

[BLACK 346]

Update. I have replaced relay with brand new item, checked all hoses for Kinks (Thanks Ed). Still exactly the same. If I take both hoses off front of blower and force air through the bottom hose I get a trickle through the top out of the blower. Other than that nothing that give me any confidence that the pump is actually pumping. It make no noise whatsoever :(
I know the pump is up to it as Ed is running the same one. Bit over this to be honest, these modded cars are great until they start not being great any more. On top of this the passenger side speakers decided to stop working, so something else to waste my time on. Not sure why two doors on one side would stop and everything else keeps working. Below is the wiring I am dealing with, not sure where to start with that, considering I have little to no experience with electrics.

Car hasn't stalled once since I replaced my aftermarket plug leads with factory leads. I find it hard to believe this would have been the cause, but will monitor and see. Found an easy fix for the speakers. Upgrade lol. Got the doors done with dynamat, the centre speaker disconnected and the below splits and 2 ways installed. Now need to look at dynmat on the rear parcel shelf and maybe some upgraded 8 inch free air subs (although have read that you need to upgrade the amp as well if doing this).

[Micks]

Car hasn't stalled once since I replaced my aftermarket plug leads with factory leads.
I find the oem leads are good for at least 150K & are very reliable. With headers heat sleeves are a good investment too.

[BLACK 346]

I find the oem leads are good for at least 150K & are very reliable. With headers heat sleeves are a good investment too.

Yes, have had heat sleeves for a while, good cheap protection for the leads.

[SASLS1]

I find the oem leads are good for at least 150K & are very reliable. With headers heat sleeves are a good investment too.

I'm up to 220,000 + kms on original OEM leads (still on the original spark plugs too... pulled them out look fine put them back in) on my VZ L76 6.0L, with DiFilippo headers. It still amazes me, they haven't missed a beat.

Idles perfect / pulls smooth and clean.

I haven't used after market heat sleeves in my case as no need, just the OEM heat shields on the OEM leads.

I'II be 100% buying OEM ignition leads when they finally need replacing.

[BLACK 346]

Was going great guns, then today pulled into Anytime Fitness in Elizabeth and bang, it stalls at first speed hump. Totally out of the blue, running like a dream one minute, dies in the arse just like that. Started straight up and on my way again. So leads were not the issue, which I thought sounded unlikely anyway. For shits and giggles I am going to replace the plugs, mainly because I have a brand new set of TR6 sitting on the shelf. What gaps are people running? Particularly on blown cars. I have always run 1.5, which is what I was advised was the magic number from day dot with this car.

[whitels1ss]

I run TR6 with 1.5 gap also.

[whitels1ss]

Hey Rod, I know you run a hi-stall converter in your's but what does the car idle at?

[BLACK 346]

Hey Rod, I know you run a hi-stall converter in your's but what does the car idle at?

850-900 Ed, but fluctuates a lot with the cam.

[Micks]

Rod do you have a scanner/logger? Perhaps you can attach one whilst driving around when it stalls, that hopefully pin points the problem?

[whitels1ss]

Rod do you have a scanner/logger? Perhaps you can attach one whilst driving around when it stalls, that hopefully pin points the problem?

Mine has been stalling a little the same as Rod's lately but shows up no codes at all,

I am hoping to catch up with my tuner soon.

[Micks]

Happen at any given time? Under brakes?

[whitels1ss]

Happen at any given time? Under brakes?

Mine has been doing it sometimes randomly when I pull up or slow right down to turn a corner.

It's dangerous when you lose power steering all of a sudden trying to steer around a corner when not expecting it.

Always starts straight away.

I am taking it over to my tuner this afternoon.

[BLACK 346]

Mine has been doing it sometimes randomly when I pull up or slow right down to turn a corner.

It's dangerous when you lose power steering all of a sudden trying to steer around a corner when not expecting it.

Always starts straight away.

I am taking it over to my tuner this afternoon.

Yes, it is dangerous and very annoying, especially when it catches you by surprise. Let me know how you go Ed.

[BLACK 346]

Happen at any given time? Under brakes?

Yes Mick, always under brakes. Brad reckons it is the brake booster drawing vacuum and causing it to stall. His solution is to fit an electric brake booster pump rather using engine vacuum. I think this is a rather extreme solution considering the amount of cars out there with big cams that don't stall. And may cost nearly a grand and not be a guaranteed solution.

[SASLS1]

Yes Mick, always under brakes. Brad reckons it is the brake booster drawing vacuum and causing it to stall. His solution is to fit an electric brake booster pump rather using engine vacuum. I think this is a rather extreme solution considering the amount of cars out there with big cams that don't stall. And may cost nearly a grand and not be a guaranteed solution.


Install a mechanical Boost / Vacuum gauge, there not very expensive to buy, and you'll be able to monitor " Exactly " what's going on while driving.

Then you can make an informed decision, instead of just stabbing in the dark blindly throwing money at it.

Typical mechanic/tuner response, just chuck parts/money at it, without working out what the underlying problem is to begin with... :banghead:



I have this Autometer Boost / Vacuum gauge fitted in my S14 200SX, it's a nice small size 52.4mm dial, and is back lit for night use.

https://www.autometer.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/350x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/3/3/3303_46.jpg

Interestingly cruising on the Fwy at a steady 100km/h, my S14 is running in Vacuum the whole time while under very light load. Crack the throttle more than about 2 to 3 mm from the 100km/h steady cruise position and it goes straight into boost, super responsive making the car so fun to drive.

It gets awesome fuel economy cruising on fwy at 100km/h on zero boost. It runs up to 14.5 psi, and pulls heaps harder than my 6.0L L76 ute (only full DiFilippo exhaust, X-Air OTR and 3.9 ratio diff)

I find it very interesting observing the Boost / Vacuum gauge while driving...

[Micks]

Yes Mick, always under brakes. Brad reckons it is the brake booster drawing vacuum and causing it to stall. His solution is to fit an electric brake booster pump rather using engine vacuum. I think this is a rather extreme solution considering the amount of cars out there with big cams that don't stall. And may cost nearly a grand and not be a guaranteed solution.

I agree, does seem a bit extreme never seen an LS requiring one, those boosters have a one way valve so are fully charged with vacuum & good for three maybe four pumps of the brakes before the bladder empties.
Be interesting to see what Ed's tuner has to say about his.

[whitels1ss]

Be interesting to see what Ed's tuner has to say about his.

Mine has just had a little bit more air dialled into the idle air control setting this afternoon, it is running like a treat now. :driving:

I have done about 75kms around town since. :cheers:

[BLACKVE]

Yes Mick, always under brakes. Brad reckons it is the brake booster drawing vacuum and causing it to stall. His solution is to fit an electric brake booster pump rather using engine vacuum. I think this is a rather extreme solution considering the amount of cars out there with big cams that don't stall. And may cost nearly a grand and not be a guaranteed solution.

Try another tuner there's something he's missing there

[whitels1ss]

Any updates Rod? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Any updates Rod? :cheers:

Not yet Ed. Have not had time to do plugs yet, pulled one for a look and it appeared pretty sketchy. I wonder if all the driving with 80 plus IAT would decrease plug life? Just a thought.

[whitels1ss]

I would not really expect your warmer iat's to make any drastic change causing plugs to burn out much faster Rod.

[Micks]

Reckon timing or possibility of lean fuel can cause that issue.

[white lie]

I'd say it's a combination of those factors. Incorrect timing and fueling for the increased IAT condiitons.

[whitels1ss]

Any updates Rod? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Any updates Rod? :cheers:

I did a plug change yesterday Ed. Car hardly gets driven at the moment. I did however put the TR6 plugs in at factory gap, all the US forums recommend that gap for blown LS motors. So I will see how it goes :)

[whitels1ss]

Hey Rod, did you end up getting the water meth kit fitted & tuned?

If so, how did it go & is your car still stalling? :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

Hey Rod, did you end up getting the water meth kit fitted & tuned?

If so, how did it go & is your car still stalling? :cheers:

Hey Ed, yeah that was fitted a long time ago. Car has not stalled for quite a while, I am hoping it had something to do with the high intake temps that occurred due to some wring issues with the heat exchanger pump.

[whitels1ss]

:cool:

What were the gains & dyno results?

[BLACK 346]

:cool:

What were the gains & dyno results?

It never really got retuned Ed. It was during the dyno runs after the water/meth install that Brad noticed the intake temps going through the roof (In the 90's I believe on a hot summer day). I think the best it made under those conditions was 369rwkw. We at first thought it was failed pump for the heat exchanger. I took the car home with the intention of replacing that myself (which I did) and still the problem remained. Took it back to Brad and ended up finding some faulty wiring which once replaced got everything back to normal. Car has not been back since. I suppose one day I should get him to run it up and see what it can do, but for now I am just enjoying driving it every now and then. I have also spoken with Brad on several occasions about extra power from the water/meth and each time he replies that he does not use water/meth to make extra power but just the make safe power and for the extra intake cooling that it provides under boost.

On a side note, when the blower was first fitted Brad had it producing 15psi of boost and it blew past 430rwkw on his dyno. He rang me straight away and told me, but said he was going back to 10psi so that I don't come back in 2 weeks with my engine in a wheelbarrow lol.

[whitels1ss]

How is this car going Rod?

Been a long time since any updates. :cheers:

[BLACK 346]

How is this car going Rod?

Been a long time since any updates. :cheers:

Funny you should ask Ed. It came out of the shed this morning for the first time in months. Just took it to the servo and put some fresh fuel in. The next thing I will be doing to that car is ditching the fkn horrible Nitto Tyres that I have on it and putting some R compound Tyres back on, probably Bridgestone RE050's. Other than that, it is running nice just not driven much during winter and because I leave for work at 0500 and respect that my suburb probably likes to sleep past that time lol.