ZB Commodore sales

[Jag530G]

According to a wheels mag article on Facebook, Holden have sold just under 1000 Commodores including 400 VFs in March. So only around 600 ZB. I was getting my Cascada serviced yesterday and one of the sales people said they hadn’t sold a single ZB yet. Can’t help but feel there will be some massive discounts in the near future to shift stock. It already has a 7 year warranty so with a decent haircut would make a reasonable A to B car.

Cheers, Matthew

[BLACK 346]

We stopped in to see them in the flesh a few days back (City Holden Hillcrest). They are pretty underwhelming to look at, especially when you see them sitting side by side with a VF SS or the like. Now the wagon is a whole different kettle of fish, that thing looks like ugly and ungainly had a child. We noticed that they had tried to hide a brand spankers VF SSV Redline wagon in Phantom down the very back of the yard, good move I reckon, the ZB wagon doesn't need any help looking bad.

[Smitty]

According to a wheels mag article on Facebook, Holden have sold just under 1000 Commodores including 400 VFs in March. So only around 600 ZB. I was getting my Cascada serviced yesterday and one of the sales people said they hadn’t sold a single ZB yet. Can’t help but feel there will be some massive discounts in the near future to shift stock. It already has a 7 year warranty so with a decent haircut would make a reasonable A to B car.

Cheers, Matthew


the official retail release of ZB was Friday March 2 so this is not a full month
and
advertising..??? nope nothing on the teev in the papers or in social media
that i have seen

sorta says they ain't gunna sell many

[QIKMIK]

I've made a concerted effort to get myself to a dealer to see every new Commodore since...probably VS. Haven't been anywhere near a dealer for this one and most likely won't. Haven't seen any on the road in Canberra yet either.

Mick

[white lie]

the official retail release of ZB was Friday March 2 so this is not a full month
and
advertising..??? nope nothing on the teev in the papers or in social media
that i have seen

sorta says they ain't gunna sell manyI see it advertised on TV a fair bit and I don't watch much TV at all...doesn't stand out as a memorable advert or do anything for the actual car though

[surfwagon]

I like most on here can't stand the new ZB and what it stands for at Holden.
But one thing not to forget is that if Holden goes down the gurgler like Saab or MG there goes the warranty on the last of the VF's.
Parts for pre VE are already started to come up as no longer available and I don't think Holden has any plans to source new ones from new suppliers.
I have noticed a few people starting search for the new or 2nd hand electronic accel pedal for VY2-VZ's as they are coming up as NLA.

[Micks]

search for the new or 2nd hand electronic accel pedal for VY2-VZ's as they are coming up as NLA
Was lucky I was nosing around a FB page a few yrs ago & a fella had bought a new FBW VZ pedal assy, but couldn't use it in his project.
I bought it & put it on the shelf, noticed my one has a binding spot at times & will need changing out at some point :goodjob:

[motomk]

I test drove a 4 cylinder Turbo with 9 speed auto, after lowering the seat which puts you nearly on the tarmac, drove it around the block.
It actually didn't go too bad and it steered very well. Ok, I am not a fan of it being called a Commodore, call it what it is and let it sell itself!
Not sure I would bother with the V6 version. Give the 4 cylinder turbo petrol, AWD and a wagon version and they might go ok!

[csv rulz]

I test drove a 4 cylinder Turbo with 9 speed auto, after lowering the seat which puts you nearly on the tarmac, drove it around the block.
It actually didn't go too bad and it steered very well. Ok, I am not a fan of it being called a Commodore, call it what it is and let it sell itself!
Not sure I would bother with the V6 version. Give the 4 cylinder turbo petrol, AWD and a wagon version and they might go ok!After driving both the 4T is the pick of the engines. The V6 doesnt feel any faster especially with the extra weight of AWD.

[Jag530G]

the official retail release of ZB was Friday March 2 so this is not a full month
and
advertising..??? nope nothing on the teev in the papers or in social media
that i have seen

sorta says they ain't gunna sell many

I see Commodore ads on Facebook heavily pushing the seven year warranty.

The Equinox on sold a couple hundred, which considering the popularity of SUVs, hurts Holden far more.

If Holden can’t sell Commodores without massive incentives the Commodore won’t be around for long. All the concerns about where the next all new model will be academic.

I have to admit if I was in the market for a large car and the discount was solid I’d go for it. Nice warranty.

Holden won’t go down, selling imported cars is far less capital intensive than building them, I think a more likely scenario is the GM sells Holden to PSA group to join its stable mates Opel/Vauxhall. PSA doesn’t do as well here as it once did so Holden would help the cause. GM has all but given up in RHD markets so would make sense.

Cheers, Matthew

Cheers, Matthew.

[csv rulz]

I see Commodore ads on Facebook heavily pushing the seven year warranty.

The Equinox on sold a couple hundred, which considering the popularity of SUVs, hurts Holden far more.

If Holden can’t sell Commodores without massive incentives the Commodore won’t be around for long. All the concerns about where the next all new model will be academic.

I have to admit if I was in the market for a large car and the discount was solid I’d go for it. Nice warranty.

Holden won’t go down, selling imported cars is far less capital intensive than building them, I think a more likely scenario is the GM sells Holden to PSA group to join its stable mates Opel/Vauxhall. PSA doesn’t do as well here as it once did so Holden would help the cause. GM has all but given up in RHD markets so would make sense.

Cheers, Matthew

Cheers, Matthew.I think i read that captiva outsold equinox last month. Which is saying something as captiva is about 10 yrs past its used by date

[SASLS1]

I test drove a 4 cylinder Turbo with 9 speed auto, after lowering the seat which puts you nearly on the tarmac, drove it around the block.
It actually didn't go too bad and it steered very well. Ok, I am not a fan of it being called a Commodore, call it what it is and let it sell itself!
Not sure I would bother with the V6 version. Give the 4 cylinder turbo petrol, AWD and a wagon version and they might go ok!

Agreed...

The 2 litre Turbo version is 137kg lighter than the awd v6, and has only 31Nm less torque, than the V6. If only the 2T was RWD...

2T 350Nm between 3000 - 40000 RPM...

V6 381Nm peak @ 5200 RPM...

The 2T would be such more fun to drive, with its broad flat torque curve.

Why Holden waste their time with the V6, is beyond me, it's Ridiculous...

With a couple of tweaks the 2T would easily surpass the V6, would be lighter, more fuel efficient, and more powerful...


But, Holden are stupid... FWD only Rubbish that no one wants...

AWD... IMO... is Totally un-necessary, and just adds extra weight, which is totally redundant...... when the car is cruising along at light load, where most cars spend the Vast Majority of their time on the street...

[Smitty]

I think i read that captiva outsold equinox last month. Which is saying something as captiva is about 10 yrs past its used by date

Captiva is in selling out mode... Holden are doing stupid discounts to get rid of them
(like I have seen ads ....$10k off a LTZ with all the fruit)

as the Equinox replaces the 5 seat Captivia (and the Arcadia due next month replaces the 7 seater)

[Smitty]

I see Commodore ads on Facebook heavily pushing the seven year warranty.
.....................

Cheers, Matthew.

curious... never seen one on my FB

but Holden NEED the 7 year warranty on all their range
too many competitors already have a 5 or 7 *year one
and a standard 3 year does not cut it these days


* I just bought a couple of Kia Sorentos for the company car fleet
and the main reason is... these have a 7 year warranty (plus the price was nice)

[macca_779]

I've driven both the base model 4T and the VRX V6. I always test drive the new models. It's obvious that sales are poor as the dealer has contracted me on numerous occasions to check if I am interested.

From my experience the VRX isn't a bad car. Its loaded with tech, although the wireless phone charger didn't work and the car had a dash rattle. Small quirks but still for a brand new car where Holden is trying to run the whole german quality angle its just not there.
Main problems I have with it are the performance. Think about it like this. Nearly 20 years ago an SS was slightly faster than the VRX! 20 years!!!

Excusing that, the car is just boring to drive. The auto is stupid and easily confused, its just not a performance car. If you wanted just a nice car to drive A to B you might consider it. But there are cheaper better looking alternatives out there that are going to be more reliable and offer better resale.

[A^K^T]

I have seen one ZB so far , only realized what it was because i was behind it and saw the badges.

[CLUBRED]

Haven't seen one yet. I have driven the 2T, I didn't mind it but the car itself was the LT and boring as bat shit, we need the GSi spec every other country seem the get. The tunes seem to get around +25% (probably why they didn't give us the GSi), and you get wooshy pssht noises :) <- with the windows down :D

I follow my local dealer's socials and they've only posted 1 delivery photo with the ZB. When I was there last there was a few in PD, and a few in holding yard.

[jc_sv8]

Saw it's competitor on the road the other day for the first time.
White Kia Stinger GT. It was pulling out from a side street so my first glimpse was from side on, and I though "what the hell is that!".
Very quickly it looked like a Porsche Panamera. Similar profile and quite low.
Dunno what they drive like but it looks the part.

I haven't seen any ZB's on the road yet...

[white lie]

I see loads of them as there's a dealer in the next suburb over. Think I've only ever seen 1 black and 1 red, all the others have been white...there was one in the middle of the local shopping centre a couple of months back, looked pretty well finished inside, I'd certainly give it a closer look if I was in the market for that type of car, just don't like the front. The ZB would really struggle to get a look in.

[Smitty]

I see loads of them as there's a dealer in the next suburb over. Think I've only ever seen 1 black and 1 red, all the others have been white...there was one in the middle of the local shopping centre a couple of months back, looked pretty well finished inside, I'd certainly give it a closer look if I was in the market for that type of car, just don't like the front. The ZB would really struggle to get a look in.

originally saw a red one at my local shopping strip back September October last year
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180111_170150_zpsj4xvgvs3.jpg~original


and then of course on the drive on the release of the thing (there are over 25 of 'em parked here)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zps4nbwygao.jpg

[white lie]

I meant the Stinger. Seen bucket loads of white but not much else

[C4B]

I saw the new Commodore this morning when we dropped my wife's company car off at the dealership.....

All I can say is Holden should do the honourable thing and retire the Commodore nameplate immediately.

The new car simply isn't a Commodore and is just shitting on the grave of the real Commodore!

[Smitty]

.. some interesting thoughts on this from a Holden insider Mike Simcoe

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/general-motors/holden-has-lsquo-mountain-to-climb-rsquo-simcoe/2018-04-03/71348.html

[Jason01]

.. some interesting thoughts on this from a Holden insider Mike Simcoe

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/general-motors/holden-has-lsquo-mountain-to-climb-rsquo-simcoe/2018-04-03/71348.html

He can try and spin it any way he likes but I want an Australian manufactured Holden, not something else rebadged as a Holden and especially not as a Commodore, I would think so do most good Holden people.

I drive a 91 Ford Laser from time to time and it's a great little car but as far as I'm concerned it's really a Mazda with Ford badges.

[csv rulz]

Have had a few exchanges with Paul Maric from car advice recently on a new car for us. He suggested the new Equinox due to its size and it got me thinking.
There is not a single new Holden I would be happy to lay my hard earn cash on. (Especially not the Equinox)

Thats a really sad thought. Ive been a holden fan since I was a kid

[Smitty]

Have had a few exchanges with Paul Maric from car advice recently on a new car for us. He suggested the new Equinox due to its size and it got me thinking.
There is not a single new Holden I would be happy to lay my hard earn cash on. (Especially not the Equinox)

Thats a really sad thought. Ive been a holden fan since I was a kid

bit harsh in my opinion. I have had an Equinox over a weekend (one of the benefits of being a fleet manager)
and as a small SUV, it does the job. 300% better than the 5 seat Craptiva that it replaces, it drives
quite nicely, decent seats, suspension actually works (unlike the Craptiva) has more than ample space,
the turbo engine with 9 speed auto is more than adequate for around town and on the freeway

It is cheaper than the Toyota RAV4 (but not much) and a lot cheaper than a Tiguan or CX5. It offers
Apple Carplay and its Android equivalent which the Mazda and Toyota don't have.

The only thing I did not like was the auto engine off/on which (unlike the ZB) cannot be turned off
and the vibrating seat warning system (whoever thought this up should be banished from car design forever)
but this can be turned off thankfully

I even don't mind the styling in comparison with its competitors (although design is always an individual choice)

Having said all that... the Equinox is not outstanding nor is it bad (like its predecessor was)

[csv rulz]

bit harsh in my opinion. I have had an Equinox over a weekend (one of the benefits of being a fleet manager)
and as a small SUV, it does the job. 300% better than the 5 seat Craptiva that it replaces, it drives
quite nicely, decent seats, suspension actually works (unlike the Craptiva) has more than ample space,
the turbo engine with 9 speed auto is more than adequate for around town and on the freeway

It is cheaper than the Toyota RAV4 (but not much) and a lot cheaper than a Tiguan or CX5. It offers
Apple Carplay and its Android equivalent which the Mazda and Toyota don't have.

The only thing I did not like was the auto engine off/on which (unlike the ZB) cannot be turned off
and the vibrating seat warning system (whoever thought this up should be banished from car design forever)
but this can be turned off thankfully

I even don't mind the styling in comparison with its competitors (although design is always an individual choice)

Having said all that... the Equinox is not outstanding nor is it bad (like its predecessor was)No argument from me in terms of the Equinox being a reasonably good car, especially with the 2.0T.
For me though the styling couldnt be any more boring, the interior comes accross as very chintzy and value for money i think there are better buys out there.

Would i have an issue driving one each day? No

Would i buy one with my own money? No

[Ausmartin1]

Looks like Opel build qulaity under PSA group has slipped even lower - New Commodore ZB at shopping centre with Transmission leak.
It's in facebook https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30657186_10215349498988856_3723142797683851264_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=8769d46dc277eaf4fbb9695cf6204185&oe=5B71715F
https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30697959_10215349498268838_4354664201793306624_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=476d35ed6876f66bc86e0843b61b4bcc&oe=5B5F90FA
Sad for the Holden brand.
Makes me wonder how the new marketing dude will go with mission impossible products this year.
Betting <50% tops new Commodore ZB, March still had a decent proportion of Australian built Commodores sold, Now in April they are now drying up.
Dealers still have plenty of "new" demo Astra's registered for the fake sales spike in December in the second hand lots.
RACV summary wasn't enthralled or impressed compared to other offerings.

One would hate very much to be a Holden dealership this year - "for sure".

[Ausmartin1]

bit harsh in my opinion. I have had an Equinox over a weekend (one of the benefits of being a fleet manager)
and as a small SUV, it does the job. 300% better than the 5 seat Craptiva that it replaces, it drives
quite nicely, decent seats, suspension actually works (unlike the Craptiva) has more than ample space,
the turbo engine with 9 speed auto is more than adequate for around town and on the freeway

It is cheaper than the Toyota RAV4 (but not much) and a lot cheaper than a Tiguan or CX5. It offers
Apple Carplay and its Android equivalent which the Mazda and Toyota don't have.

The only thing I did not like was the auto engine off/on which (unlike the ZB) cannot be turned off
and the vibrating seat warning system (whoever thought this up should be banished from car design forever)
but this can be turned off thankfully

I even don't mind the styling in comparison with its competitors (although design is always an individual choice)

Having said all that... the Equinox is not outstanding nor is it bad (like its predecessor was)

What about Hyundai Tucson / Santa fe or Kia Sportage / Sorento or big families Kia Carnival all with Apple car play or Android Auto and cheaper than the Mazda's I found.
Mazda's have the best style - but Mazda dealers don't discount much or offer decent trade ins from recent experiences in helping friends get a new family car.

[Smitty]

Would i have an issue driving one each day? No

Would i buy one with my own money? No

I wouldn't actually buy one either.. as I detest Silly Useless Vehicles
poor handling under powered a lot of them resource hogs and a pox on the planet.

The car makers with great marketing departments (that does NOT include Holden)
basically got car buyers thinking they are getting better transport when they buy a SUV
.. they are not but shit they sell lots' of 'em!

As my year 1 Marketing 101 Uni lecturer stated just after he had just entered the lecture
theatre for the first time (I remember this very clearly being a young impressionable 18yo long hair)
In the western capitalist system ..... Marketing exists for one and one reason only.
To extract the maximum amount of money from the consumer without any thought as to its impact

In the case of Holden, they have not been able to get that right (except for the Commodore) for probably
the past 20 years and the sales ppl (Holden and dealer staff who actually sell cars) are paying the price

Example... release the Astra, great car. not a lot of advertising. Ditto the Equinox. (does anyone really
understand the Equinox advertising program?) and righto we are going to REALLY stuff up sales of these.
Release them with 7 years warranty and 7 years road side assist. Ooooh actually competition now for
their competitors. BUT ....3 months after release, their warranty reverts to 3 years and Roadside Assist
back to 12 months. Reason now for buying an Astra or Equinox.. over their market competitors??? None

Sad really.... and also this not helped by GM Detroit. A pox on them too ....

Anyone remotely interested should read this .. in todays paper

https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/national-icon-driven-around-the-bend-20180413-p4z9gs.html

[whitels1ss]

I wouldn't actually buy one either.. as I detest Silly Useless Vehicles
poor handling under powered a lot of them resource hogs and a pox on the planet.


You nailed it Smitty! :yup:

[Ausmartin1]

This is the whole point of the SUV "arm race" First they increase safety as you ride higher ( unless you roll on your roof - that is bad) Then you have better visibility until everyone in the neighbourhood has an SUV which then cancels out both the safety and visibility aspect. It is a god send for car manufacturers to sell basically a station wagon on stilts along with 4wd option 99% of families will never use. Marketing is a wonderful cash extraction exercise of the above who refuse to drive last generations sedans and wagons. Even Mitsubishi has found money / profit only in SUV and 4WD's. Lets face it public are suckers and love being played, while corporations will take advantage that's life.

[whitels1ss]

This is the whole point of the SUV First they increase safety as you ride higher ( unless you roll on your roof - that is bad)


I have seen quite a few of them get rolled, some after only being involved in minor looking collisions.

The increased ride height makes them less stable & less safe in some circumstances.

I personally can't stand the things.

[white lie]

Only reason I own one is the seating capacity. No way in the world am I buying a minivan and as much as I'd like a Cruiser, they're just too expensive. That said, the current CX9 is an excellent car.

[csv rulz]

Only reason I own one is the seating capacity. No way in the world am I buying a minivan and as much as I'd like a Cruiser, they're just too expensive. That said, the current CX9 is an excellent car.The benefits of an SUV come down to packaging. The likes of the CX9 and Sorrento are a similar length to a commodore yet seat 7. My wife's current midsize SUV is 4.5m long, the same length as her old pulsar and yet is a lot more practicle with more interior space. If you drive it any more than 6/10ths pace it is absolute rubbish. But she just pots around town so its perfect for what she uses it for


I personally would trade it for a VF Calais wagon tomorrow. Convincing my wife to get a wagon and that she doesnt need an SUV is mission impossible though

[Pickles]

My daughter bought a new Kia Carnival diesel a year or so ago.
Her husband is 6'8", she has 2 children,..heaps of room in it for everyone, shopping etc etc,....all the family absolutely love it,...leather seats, mag wheels, GPS, good stereo etc,....I wouldn't even have looked at one of them a few years ago, but for her use it's perfect, and I can understand why people buy 'em.
Pickles.

[mjrandom]

And I always thought marketing was created to give people with no skills a job!

[QIKMIK]

Saw this one on Facepage this morning - MSN Holden story (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/motoring/national-icon-driven-around-the-bend/ar-AAvQudQ?ocid=spartandhp). Gives a fair indication of things to come from what I can see.

Mick

[Luminous]

Saw this one on Facepage this morning - MSN Holden story (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/motoring/national-icon-driven-around-the-bend/ar-AAvQudQ?ocid=spartandhp). Gives a fair indication of things to come from what I can see.

Mick
GM bosses can say what they like. They are now in the same arena as politicians. It is only now, that they realise they are in the shit, not having a proper plan and just believing that everything will be alright.

As soon as they start with 'we are committed' I tune out. They are committed alright, just need the guys in white coats with nets to round them up.

[Smitty]

And I always thought marketing was created to give people with no skills a job!

... naaah
it is to keep people with an overinflated sense of self importance off the streets :nyuk:


and I say that having worked in the marketing and advertising depts of several large companies,
an advertising agency in Clemengers as well as a TV Commercial and Film production company ;)

[Smitty]

.............., the current CX9 is an excellent car.
expensive compared to the market competitors it is, as I am finding out

got asked Friday last week to get something like a Santa Fe, CX9, Sorento, Pathfinder, Craptiva, Kluger etc
as an addition to the company fleet (long story with this). Still accumulating data on each... warranty
service costs, fuel use etc... and doing some test drives but it looks like the Mazda will be the first to be
crossed off the list and that is based solely on price.

Mentioned by Pickles above, am also looking at the Carnival and along with that, the Honda Odyssey (pricey too!)

[white lie]

Depends on your requirements and with a fleet vehicle, majority of the decision would probably come down to pricing but there's really not that much in it between a CX9, Kluger, Kodiaq etc. They can all be had for 46k drive away without any haggling or fleet pricing. For us, we liked the CX9 far better than anything else we tried out

[whitels1ss]

I think the CX9 is a much nicer car & I think it would hold it's residual value far better than some of the others mentioned.

[SASLS1]

expensive compared to the market competitors it is, as I am finding out

got asked Friday last week to get something like a Santa Fe, CX9, Sorento, Pathfinder, Craptiva, Kluger etc
as an addition to the company fleet (long story with this). Still accumulating data on each... warranty
service costs, fuel use etc... and doing some test drives but it looks like the Mazda will be the first to be
crossed off the list and that is based solely on price.

Mentioned by Pickles above, am also looking at the Carnival and along with that, the Honda Odyssey (pricey too!)


Person at my work has 5 kids, he looked around at all the options for 7 seats vehicles, Cruiser was way to expensive, he went for a Kia Carnival, 7 year warranty, reasonably priced, loads of features all his family really likes, he's had it for a few years now and loves it...

He even drove it to Brisbane and back from Melbourne for a family holiday fully loaded with his whole family ( 7 people ) and all there stuff, no problem what so ever...

[jc_sv8]

They name the thing an Equinox - interesting twice a year...

[mjrandom]

They name the thing an Equinox - interesting twice a year...

Better than Santa.

[whitels1ss]

Not a happy camp!

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/national-icon-driven-around-the-bend-20180413-p4z9gs.html

[zorro]

Bye bye holden, I’d be betting brand is done by 2020.

[Ausmartin1]

I bet sooner than 2020. All the armchair critics could see this blind folded.
What amazes me is all the GM people getting paid the big bucks couldn't for see this?
I smell a rat... GM is desperately pulling out everywhere globally.
GM is only interested in 3 main left hand drive markets - North America, China & South America.

Australian GM market accounts for 0.97%.
I bet they can't wait to sell / bankrupt GM Korea which they mis managed after Holden profits bought originally called Daewoo then.

If GM Korea goes, one can kiss the Holden brand goodnight.

The only decent MD Holden ever had was Peter Hanenberger and they never listened to him, those dumb HQ GM morons.
Here is history re visited and it is so ironic it is not funny:
https://www.motoring.com.au/hanenberger-its-not-my-gm-anymore-109467/

[motomk]

I bet they can't wait to sell / bankrupt GM Korea which they mis managed after Holden profits bought originally called Daewoo then.

If GM Korea goes, one can kiss the Holden brand goodnight.

The only decent MD Holden ever had was Peter Hanenberger and they never listened to him, those dumb HQ GM morons.
Here is history re visited and it is so ironic it is not funny:
https://www.motoring.com.au/hanenberger-its-not-my-gm-anymore-109467/

They should of helped GM Korea (Daewoo) become similar to it's friends over there, Kia/Hyundai.
Not continue to build the same re-bodied Daewoos. If worse came to worse they should have let them build the Insignia sorry, Commodore and European Astra and Corsa.

[whitels1ss]

Gaywoo have built some absolute crap over the years! :spew::spew::spew: :doh::stupid::banghead:

[falcom]

These are very sad days indeed and I cannot see how Holden can dig themselves out of this. Unfortunately the bad decisions Holden have made in the past are now coming back to bite them hard. Bringing in poor quality products has burnt so many people that they will not even consider a Holden now no matter how good the current product is. They are also very slow at fixing known problems such as the wheel sensor issue in the VE and the leaking engines in the diesel Captivas.I have spoken to people who have changed sensors 6 or 7 times and had to foot the bill themselves once out of warranty. I have always purchased Commodores as I had a passion for the brand but a lot of people as well as myself have now lost that passion. I currently have a VF and love it but it will be my last Holden. My next car will now most likely be a Mazda. Crossing my fingers for an unlikely miracle but not holding my breath.

[A^K^T]

I bet sooner than 2020. All the armchair critics could see this blind folded.
What amazes me is all the GM people getting paid the big bucks couldn't for see this?
I smell a rat... GM is desperately pulling out everywhere globally.
GM is only interested in 3 main left hand drive markets - North America, China & South America.

Australian GM market accounts for 0.97%.
I bet they can't wait to sell / bankrupt GM Korea which they mis managed after Holden profits bought originally called Daewoo then.

If GM Korea goes, one can kiss the Holden brand goodnight.

The only decent MD Holden ever had was Peter Hanenberger and they never listened to him, those dumb HQ GM morons.
Here is history re visited and it is so ironic it is not funny:
https://www.motoring.com.au/hanenberger-its-not-my-gm-anymore-109467/

Interesting read , bought a new 03 VY Tonner in 04 (still have it) then in 2012 i went car shopping again.
Looked at the 1.4 SRI Cruze as i didn't want a large car , didn't think much of the styling but it had local input when made.
Also test drove the Veloster and Focus , the Focus got the nod but was moved on after a year because of the transmission (the Powershift)

Have a VY Equipe as a runabout , cost about $400 290,000k on the clock (265,000k when i got it) and the auto trans works better that the Ford jobbie and seems to accelerate quicker than the Cruze , i am having to spend some money on it over the next week or so (tires & rear brakes) but its still cheap transport.
If the modern Torana had gone ahead it would have been a one i would have looked at but as it is i think the Focus was my last new car.

[Smitty]

.............. but as it is i think the Focus was my last new car.

Indeed it is... :)
as Fraud announced today the withdrawal of the Focus from the market with the exception
of the hottie version (which will cease at the end of its model life and not be replaced)

[Pickles]

Indeed it is... :)
as Fraud announced today the withdrawal of the Focus from the market with the exception
of the hottie version (which will cease at the end of its model life and not be replaced)

I didn't know that. I thought that we would be getting Focus from a different manufacturing source (Europe), but I didn't know that Focus would no longer be available in Aus. That would be a shame, because the new model looks ok.
Pickles.

[whitels1ss]

Here is some stuff on the new Fiesta...


"FORD Australia has officially confirmed a local arrival of the next-generation Ford Fiesta ST for about this time next year.
The new ST will feature a more powerful 147kW/290Nm 1.5-litre three-pot EcoBoost engine and six-speed manual transmission,
with performance further enhanced by light-weight cutting-edge chassis technology and advanced aerodynamics.............."

(continued see link below....)


https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1804/2019-ford-fiesta-st-confirmed-for-australia





5278
5279
5280

[CLUBRED]

My next car will now most likely be a Mazda. Crossing my fingers for an unlikely miracle but not holding my breath.

I think the inbound Mazda 6 with the 2.5T will be a cracker...

[csv rulz]

Indeed it is... :)
as Fraud announced today the withdrawal of the Focus from the market with the exception
of the hottie version (which will cease at the end of its model life and not be replaced)Surely ford would be crazy not to have a car on sale in one of the biggest selling segments.
Although i guess mitsubishi are headed in a similar direction

[Smitty]

Here is some stuff on the new Fiesta...


"FORD Australia has officially confirmed a local arrival of the next-generation Ford Fiesta ST for about this time next year.
The new ST will feature a more powerful 147kW/290Nm 1.5-litre three-pot EcoBoost engine and six-speed manual transmission,
with performance further enhanced by light-weight cutting-edge chassis technology and advanced aerodynamics.............."

(continued see link below....)


https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1804/2019-ford-fiesta-st-confirmed-for-australia


can see what Ford is doing here
only throw the best performing versions into our market .. re the Focus and Fiesta

[whitels1ss]

can see what Ford is doing here
only throw the best performing versions into our market .. re the Focus and Fiesta

Pity GM can't do the same.:idea:

[Smitty]

Pity GM can't do the same.:idea:

.. we wish!
pity is these blokes in Port Melbourne couldn't arrange a booze up in a brewery :teach:

[whitels1ss]

.. we wish!
pity is these blokes in Port Melbourne couldn't arrange a booze up in a brewery :teach:

I think that they are just puppets with their strings being pulled back from USA. :yup:

[Smitty]

I think that they are just puppets with their strings being pulled back from USA. :yup:

having worked there.. and seen the various approval processes (even been involved in them) there is an element of truth in that
but
Holden still have to put up a business case for any new product (or product changes) and it seems to me that there is a yawning gulf
.... a great disconnect between what Holden see the Australian car market as and what it really is

and I think the realisation is slowly starting to sink in that they have got in wrong BIG TIME. Witness the sudden departure of their executive
director of marketing last week

and I know the dealer council is up in arms about the 'lack of direction' in respect of Holden product.

[SASLS1]

You could tell Holden were desperate, when they let the media drive the Insigniadore test vehicles still covered in camo back in Oct 2016... WTF Holden...

No other car manufacturers to my knowledge, has ever let the media drive a pre-release test vehicle, take close up exterior (camo livery) and interior pictures (dash still covered with covers)... and think this is good / smart Marketing Strategy...

It's Totally Moronic and Retarded!!!... WTF were they thinking....

You stop production of one of your best selling vehicles...

Then try and force people to buy a imported product that no body wants...

Then you can't work out why the show rooms are full of crickets... and not a consumer in sight... :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Zero Management Accountability as usual...

[Smitty]

can see what Ford is doing here
only throw the best performing versions into our market .. re the Focus and Fiesta

nice guess (by me :dancenana:)

FORD Australia has officially launched its Ford Performance subbrand
with the announcement of its return to the Supercars racing series
in 2019 and now the launch of the Fiesta ST in next-generation guise....
but the company says it will not commit dedicated showroom space to its
gofast models.
Instead, Ford Australia will democratise availability of its
Performance range – including the Mustang coupe and convertible set
for a facelift mid-year, the flagship Ranger Raptor, Focus ST and RS
small hatchbacks and Fiesta ST light car – across its dealer network

from yesterdays 'GoAuto News'



ps... WTF does democratise mean? ;)

[QIKMIK]

I was at my local dealer today checking out spare part prices and walked past a new VXR. Had a quick look around. Opened the door and looked inside.

Have been washing my hands ever since. Help me, please.....it won't wash off :errr:

Mick

[SASLS1]

ps... WTF does democratise mean? ;)

Make available to everyone...

You be able to buy any of the Ford Performance range at any Ford Dealer, not just select performance dealers...

[Pickles]

Make available to everyone...

You be able to buy any of the Ford Performance range at any Ford Dealer, not just select performance dealers...
Yes, and "Ford Performance" being available through Aussie Dealers should/could be VERY exciting for, certainly Mustang owners anyway, as, there is potentially a MASSIVE amount of stuff available for that car.
Pickles.

[BLACKVE]

still haven't seen a zb on the road yet,

Did see a new camry, far out the ugly stick got used

[BLACK 346]

still haven't seen a zb on the road yet,

Did see a new camry, far out the ugly stick got used

Same, not one.

And yes, how good do they make the Camry look on TV and in pictures, then in the flesh hard to describe how you get a car to look that bad.

[whitels1ss]

I saw a new Calais on the road & it didn't look anything like a Holden to me.
I was guessing it was some new Korean model until I read the badges. :spew:

https://www.motoring.com.au/holden-calais-2018-review-111097/

[Jag530G]

I saw a ZB driving up Brunswick St New Farm last Thursday. Pretty anonymous on the road. Shows the problem really. If you want an anonymous FWD 4/6cyl passenger car why wouldn’t you buy a Camry with the reliability, resale and manufacturer commitment? Massive, massive discounts are surely in the near future to shift these off the lot. I’ll go further and predict Holden will abandon the Commodore by the end of next year at the absolute latest. Evidently Peugeot are making Holden pay more for the cars than what GM-Opel were pricing them at. The only mid size sedans people want are Mazda 6s and Camrys.

Cheers, Matthew

[whitels1ss]

If you want an anonymous FWD 4/6cyl passenger car why wouldn’t you buy a Camry
The only mid size sedans people want are Mazda 6s and Camrys.

Cheers, Matthew

Personally, I would pick a Mazda 6 or Mazda 3 if size wasn't an issue. :yup:

[whitels1ss]

Seat belt recall.....

ZB Commodore recalled for worries over seatbelts

Fears that safety belts could fail in the brand new Holden ZB Commodore has led to the issuing of an urgent recall.

The Motor Industry Association says it has identified a condition where the rear left and right seatbelts may not have been installed correctly.

This may have happened when the vehicle was manufactured.

If the vehicle is in a collision the seatbelts may not operate as designed, and could lead to serious injury.

The MIA says the rear centre seat belt is not affected.

It's urging people to contact their local Holden dealers to deal with the issue.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/103244632/zb-commodore-recalled-for-worries-over-seatbelts

[Jag530G]

Seat belt recall.....

ZB Commodore recalled for worries over seatbelts

Fears that safety belts could fail in the brand new Holden ZB Commodore has led to the issuing of an urgent recall.

The Motor Industry Association says it has identified a condition where the rear left and right seatbelts may not have been installed correctly.

This may have happened when the vehicle was manufactured.

If the vehicle is in a collision the seatbelts may not operate as designed, and could lead to serious injury.

The MIA says the rear centre seat belt is not affected.

It's urging people to contact their local Holden dealers to deal with the issue.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/103244632/zb-commodore-recalled-for-worries-over-seatbelts

No drama, no one’s bought one so no one’s in danger...

[BLACK 346]

Keep hearing C Lowndes on MMM urging poeple to get in and test drive one. I wonder which one he has in his garage lol.

[amckiwi]

No drama, no one’s bought one so no one’s in danger...

They have already been in touch with the three customers who bought one

[csv rulz]

Keep hearing C Lowndes on MMM urging poeple to get in and test drive one. I wonder which one he has in his garage lol.Wonder how much he gets paid every time he says that

[BLACK 346]

Wonder how much he gets paid every time he says that

Way too much.

[Jason01]

Keep hearing C Lowndes on MMM urging poeple to get in and test drive one. I wonder which one he has in his garage lol.

I'm tipping one of these. (GEN-F2-GTS)

https://www.hsv.com.au/hsv/2017/images/menu/GEN-F2-gts.jpg

Or one of these. (GEN-F2-Clubsport R8 LSA)

https://www.hsv.com.au/hsv/2017/images/menu/GEN-F2-clubsportr8lsa.jpg

[Ausmartin1]

Just when I naively thought the Holden Colorado range was ok. This dealer Tait & Holden shit storm is beginning to get worse. https://m.facebook.com/pg/Kens-Oil-Guzzling-Colorado-2025070447705954/videos/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=1
Even the Lemon jeep guy is helping out.
About time the Australian consumer agency got of their lazy fat arse's and protected the consumer. Holden solution for longer dip sticks and thicker oil to compensate for bad manufacturing of the engines has to be the final nail in the coffin to introduce lemon laws so we can get the same consumer rights as buying a $10 item from kmart. After all as the car companies say their is no need for it. Well make stringent laws we owe none of these any favours at the inflated Australian prices we all get charged. May be the car companies are too greedy along with dealers who by law have no morals.

[amckiwi]

Should we merge this thread with the JOTD thread?

[QIKMIK]

And then this happened...

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/vauxhall-and-opel-are-terminating-every-european-dealer-franchise/

Mick

[Smitty]

And then this happened...

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/vauxhall-and-opel-are-terminating-every-european-dealer-franchise/

Mick

can I top that?
today Holden announced the first RECALL of the ZB!

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/gm-holden-ltd-my2018-holden-zb-commodore

[csv rulz]

can I top that?
today Holden announced the first RECALL of the ZB!

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recall/gm-holden-ltd-my2018-holden-zb-commodoreWhilst thats bad. Atleast they have recalled it before it becomes a big issue. Would much rather see companies on the front foot fixing issues that come up as opposed to ignoring them until they become major issues for the majority of buyers.

[Souljah]

At least there wouldn't be too many to recall....

[Ausmartin1]

...............

[Ausmartin1]

And then this happened...

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/vauxhall-and-opel-are-terminating-every-european-dealer-franchise/

Mick
Wow! This could give local Singapore office GM a reason to decimate Holden dealerships, what are the bets brand name change at the time or GM exiting Australia / NZ. Wonder what will happen to those 7 year warranties..... reminded me of the leaky burst Chinese made water tanks with either 20 or 25 year incredible guarantee were worthless when the designer/ distributor went bust.

[A^K^T]

Saw my second new commodore yesterday , a wagon with Queensland plates (i am in WA).

[Smitty]

Saw my second new commodore yesterday , a wagon with Queensland plates (i am in WA).
well.. I have added to the tally
bought 2 today for reps cars in Brisbane (their VFs are up for replacement)
2 x LT wagons :)

[Ausmartin1]

well.. I have added to the tally
bought 2 today for reps cars in Brisbane (their VFs are up for replacement)
2 x LT wagons :)

Wow Smitty you are a brave person ... you retiring soon? as the ZB trade in values are predicted by industry professionals to be at the very bottom of the scale ie extreme depreciation which doesn't matter for private owners who keep them till well into old age.
Trust you got an amazing / spectacular discount to compensate for later when they too need to be traded in?

[Smitty]

Wow Smitty you are a brave person ... you retiring soon? as the ZB trade in values are predicted by industry professionals to be at the very bottom of the scale ie extreme depreciation which doesn't matter for private owners who keep them till well into old age.
Trust you got an amazing / spectacular discount to compensate for later when they too need to be traded in?

naaah... not a problem
our fleet buying guidelines cover that

I am to buy sales vehicles as follows -
must be available in sedan and wagon versions
need country wide dealer support (important that for our country reps)
must have the highest safety rating
and
these guidelines from our finance dept-
no sales or marketing vehicle acquisition cost to be over $40k ...ex GST (if I try, the purchase will NOT be approved)
and trade-in/disposal value estimate to be a minimum of 15% of purchase price after 4 years or 160,000

so I need to get about $4500 for a trade-in... don't think that is a problem

[whitels1ss]

so I need to get about $4500 for a trade-in... don't think that is a problem


I think you should be okay,
but,
only just! :lmao:

To be honest though,

I reckon if they kept the trade in VF's instead, in another 4 years time they might be worth around the same money than these new things! :idea:

[Smitty]

I think you should be okay,
but,
only just! :lmao:


I did have my fingers crossed and behind my back when I submitted the estimated
trade-in at $5k (above the minimum $4500) on the new vehicle forms :dancenana:

[Ausmartin1]

I did have my fingers crossed and behind my back when I submitted the estimated
trade-in at $5k (above the minimum $4500) on the new vehicle forms :dancenana:

Smitty at least you have a reasonable finance department.
Look forward for the updates on how the ZB travel.
Be interesting to know how brake pads last etc.
Compared to the VF's.
As they will travel a fair bit and under similar conditions.

[Pickles]

Well, I am going to go against the flow.
I know the "new" Commodore ain't a VF, I know it ain't a V8, and I know it ain't made in Aussie, but apart from that,.."WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT"?
I say, not very much.
OK, I haven't driven one yet, but how many of the "knockers" have?....I've had the opportunity to borrow one, but just haven't fitted it in yet, but I will.
There's a good combination of engines & transmissions, the interior is typical Euro, and the finish is good.
The only thing I can see really wrong with them is that, unlike the VF Commodore, they're not a lot different than many other similar cars on the market?
I now await flaming, Pickles.

[Smitty]

Well, I am going to go against the flow.
I know the "new" Commodore ain't a VF, I know it ain't a V8, and I know it ain't made in Aussie, but apart from that,.."WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT"?
I say, not very much.
OK, I haven't driven one yet, but how many of the "knockers" have?....I've had the opportunity to borrow one, but just haven't fitted it in yet, but I will.
There's a good combination of engines & transmissions, the interior is typical Euro, and the finish is good.
The only thing I can see really wrong with them is that, unlike the VF Commodore, they're not a lot different than many other similar cars on the market?
I now await flaming, Pickles.

Martin... not from me
I agree with everything you have said.. they are not a bad car ( I say that after 5 or 6 test drives inc the launch - see pic and having one for 4 or 5 days as my daily)
yes ... they are similar to a lot of the competition (write Toyota Hyundai Mazda here) but that was the decision made by GM and Holden so they have to live with it

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/smitty1955/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg~original (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/smitty1955/media/Car%20Stuff%20not%20VK/20180302_115550_zpsk1kw7ls4.jpg.html)

The only thing 'bad' about it is the name... BIG home goal by calling it 'Commodore' in my opinion. After sampling it.. it is NOT!
And I told a number of the Holden senior sales guys at the Victorian launch that they got that wrong big time. Calling it Commodore
(and ignore all the stuff about how they changed it for Australia from Holden people like Bernhard down) means they will not get
the showroom traffic needed for sales... and so it has proved :teach:

[Jason01]

Well, I am going to go against the flow.
I know the "new" Commodore ain't a VF, I know it ain't a V8, and I know it ain't made in Aussie, but apart from that,.."WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT"?

It's f#cking ugly.

[Souljah]

Well, I am going to go against the flow.
I know the "new" Commodore ain't a VF, I know it ain't a V8, and I know it ain't made in Aussie, but apart from that,.."WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT"?
The wrong set of wheels are being driven.
Ugly.
Looks the same as everything else from other established manufacturers.

[Smitty]

It's f#cking ugly.

I am not a fan of the current auto design 'squashed turd' look (as my grandkids call it)
but
Mercedes Mazda Audi Opel (read Holden) are all doing it... the ZB is one of the better looking imo

this is not pretty....

https://cdn.carshowroom.com.au/carimages/AA000GHMT5.jpg.ashx?w=350&h=198&mode=crop&scale=both&404=404.jpg&format=jpg&quality=74&progressive=true&encoder=freeimage

[whitels1ss]

I am not a fan of the current auto design 'squashed turd' look (as my grandkids call it)
but
Mercedes Mazda Audi Opel (read Holden) are all doing it... the ZB is one of the better looking imo

this is not pretty....

https://cdn.carshowroom.com.au/carimages/AA000GHMT5.jpg.ashx?w=350&h=198&mode=crop&scale=both&404=404.jpg&format=jpg&quality=74&progressive=true&encoder=freeimage


"Squashed Turd" ..... Gotta love it!!! :goodjob:



Yeah, there are some ugly looking things around these days!

What scares me is if I look at that thing briefly & close one eye..............
I see a small resemblance to an AU Falcon. :hide:

[csv rulz]

The problem is that the VF was different to anything else on offer. It had rwd, option of V8, was built in Aus and is a bloody good looking car. So people bought it

The ZB is like every other car out there. Except holden doesnt have a name like toyota when it comes to reliability or a name like mazda when it comes to service or a warranty to rival Kia.

There only hope is to reduce prices and bring in a longer warranty on a permanent basis. This temporary warranty om different models etc isnt doing them any good

[Jason01]

I am not a fan of the current auto design 'squashed turd' look (as my grandkids call it)
but
Mercedes Mazda Audi Opel (read Holden) are all doing it... the ZB is one of the better looking imo

this is not pretty....

https://cdn.carshowroom.com.au/carimages/AA000GHMT5.jpg.ashx?w=350&h=198&mode=crop&scale=both&404=404.jpg&format=jpg&quality=74&progressive=true&encoder=freeimage

Ha ha, your grandkids obviously know their stuff Smitty, perhaps some of grandpa's genes having an effect there :).

[Smitty]

Ha ha, your grandkids obviously know their stuff Smitty, perhaps some of grandpa's genes having an effect there :).

picked up 2 of the grandies this morning (for a trip to the park)... and the youngest my 4yo grandson took great delight
in telling me....look GrandDad, a squashed poo ! as he spotted a Mercedes CLS turning in front of us on the way

he isn't but the older ones are allowed to say 'turd' ... and do ;)

[A^K^T]

Saw a third ZB today , was at a car rental place.
By comparison i have seen about 7 Teslas , two at the local IGA.

[Ausmartin1]

Saw a third ZB today , was at a car rental place.
By comparison i have seen about 7 Teslas , two at the local IGA.
Funny that ... yes I'm seeing a number of Tesla's S's too in Victoria.
Guess some people who can afford it have some taste for acceleration.
Agree with others comments the ZB should never have been called a Commodore.
This was an attempt by GM over stupid/neive Australians.
Australians are smarter than expected by GM.

The issue is if your going to play in the larger medium sized front wheel drive market, you better have more than a mediocre product when driven and compared to the competition.
Even the local RACV magazine review left the same impression.
That is sad for Holden but even worse for us fans who predicted this and now experience the reality.

[jc_sv8]

Has anyone driven the Kia Stinger vs ZB in a side by side comparison?
I saw one on the road and they look OK.

[BLACK 346]

Has anyone driven the Kia Stinger vs ZB in a side by side comparison?
I saw one on the road and they look OK.

Yes, latest motor magazine has them head to head.

[CLUBRED]

Car advice has done a few from memory, they also have a Stinger long term for themselves and it seems as time goes by the shine has worn off it sighting poor build quality and some drivetrain gremlins.

[Pickles]

Car advice has done a few from memory, they also have a Stinger long term for themselves and it seems as time goes by the shine has worn off it sighting poor build quality and some drivetrain gremlins.

Yes, from what I've heard, if ya want outright speed, then the Stinger's on top, but the ZB is better everywhere else, particularly the seats & the interior.
Pickles.

[jc_sv8]

Thanks, I was more interested in how they are going to stand up to Aussie conditions. Will be interesting to review in 6 months or so.
Most journo's take them around the block and write their review...

[Smitty]

Yes, from what I've heard, if ya want outright speed, then the Stinger's on top, but the ZB is better everywhere else, particularly the seats & the interior.
Pickles.
Martin.... if you are talking ZB VXR seats, they are terrible! :cussing:
the most uncomfortable unyielding seat i have ever had the misfortune to sit on.
A concrete block or park bench provides a better place to sit, even the Sparco
seat in my race car is 200% better than the VXRs

the standard ZB RSV or LT pew is much nicer on ya bottie :)

[csv rulz]

Thanks, I was more interested in how they are going to stand up to Aussie conditions. Will be interesting to review in 6 months or so.
Most journo's take them around the block and write their review...Caradvice actually purchased their own stinger when they first come out. Its the one they use in the reviews and it also goes on a lot of car events.
They would be the best ones to talk tk about how the car has held up over a period of time and what the ownership experiance is like.

[Pickles]

Martin.... if you are talking ZB VXR seats, they are terrible! :cussing:
the most uncomfortable unyielding seat i have ever had the misfortune to sit on.
A concrete block or park bench provides a better place to sit, even the Sparco
seat in my race car is 200% better than the VXRs

the standard ZB RSV or LT pew is much nicer on ya bottie :)

No worries, I will try them all & come back with my thoughts.
I'm not a fan of super hard seats myself, had a Focus RS,..had Recaros which were too radical for me,..same with AMGA45,....very "rally like" seats, not suitable for everyday/ getting in & out of car use,....and one of the reasons why Karen bought an RS3!
Believe it or not, one of the comfiest seats we've ever sat in were in our LandRover Defender,.....could drive all day in the Defender & never get tired!.....Great vehicle to drive too,....with only 90KW!
Pickles.

[CLUBRED]

Caradvice actually purchased their own stinger when they first come out. Its the one they use in the reviews and it also goes on a lot of car events.
They would be the best ones to talk tk about how the car has held up over a period of time and what the ownership experiance is like.

Be sure to read the comments, the CA guys regularly get involved, so there's some candid comments about the car there.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/626270/kia-stinger-stability-control-i-was-wrong/?source=trending&slot=1

[Smitty]

.. throw this in here as a bit of a comment

have not seen a ZB as a taxi yet but followed a Kia Stinger taxi
on the way home from the airport tonite. Interesting that ...

[whitels1ss]

.. throw this in here as a bit of a comment

have not seen a ZB as a taxi yet but followed a Kia Stinger taxi
on the way home from the airport tonite. Interesting that ...

I can't imagine ever buying any Kia as I will never forget or forgive the terrible problems I have seen with their earlier efforts.

I actually think that the Hyundai Genesis looks like a better built car.

Pity they don't sell the V8 Genesis in Australia.

[mjrandom]

My old man said that about Japanese cars when I was at school. Give them some time. I was going to take a Stinger for a drive to see if it is as good and as bad as the web seems to think.

[Pickles]

I can't imagine ever buying any Kia as I will never forget or forgive the terrible problems I have seen with their earlier efforts.

I actually think that the Hyundai Genesis looks like a better built car.

Pity they don't sell the V8 Genesis in Australia.

A friend of mine has a Genesis, LOVES it, best car He's ever had he reckons, previously He drove a V8 Statesman. I tried to get him into a Caprice V, which He did drive, but He preferred the Genesis.
Pickles.

[QIKMIK]

May have pissed off a salesman today.

While I was showing my girlfriend the ZB range, he came over and asked if we needed a hand. "All good, mate. Just trying to hold back the sick." Probably wasn't the response he was expecting.

Btw, the lady thought it looked like a Hyundai i45 but agreed that it has the wrong badge on the back.

Mick

[Pickles]

Visited or friendly Holden/HSV Dealer yesterday to resolve an exhaust alignment issue on our GTSR, so as I said I would, availed myself of a drive of a ZB.
The one we drove was a V6 AWD Wagon.
Drove it with Wifey for 1/2 an hour or so & found it Ok. Reasonably compact, plenty of performance, comfortable seating & nicely appointed inside with an air of "Euro".
Look, it ain't no VF, but it's not a bad car at all. The only point I would make is that maybe it doesn't look a lot different to many other cars on the market, whereas the VF, well it was our "Home Grown VF Commodore".
So, I suppose with the latent "anger"/public sentiment etc with VF production ending, the "Peugot Aspect", the ZB has had a few situations running against it, but take away all of that, and I don't think it's as bad as some portray.
Just my opinion, Pickles.

[CLUBRED]

I actually prefer the turbo 4. Be interesting now that Mazda has dropped the 2.5L T into the 6 finally - and 91 RON, unlike the Commodore.

[Smitty]

I actually prefer the turbo 4. Be interesting now that Mazda has dropped the 2.5L T into the 6 finally - and 91 RON, unlike the Commodore.

curious that... japanese/euro 91 ULP is the same as our 95 (which ZB requires)

oh and by the way, ZB WILL run 91ULP without issue except for 8% power reduction

Our reps running ZBs had been using 91 (out of habit from VE and VF days) and I thought
I better check, so I ran Holden's national Fleet Service Manager who advised that
you get the power loss and can also expect 'doughy' throttle response (as he put it) too

[Smitty]

Visited or friendly Holden/HSV Dealer yesterday to resolve an exhaust alignment issue on our GTSR, so as I said I would, availed myself of a drive of a ZB.
The one we drove was a V6 AWD Wagon.
Drove it with Wifey for 1/2 an hour or so & found it Ok. Reasonably compact, plenty of performance, comfortable seating & nicely appointed inside with an air of "Euro".
Look, it ain't no VF, but it's not a bad car at all. The only point I would make is that maybe it doesn't look a lot different to many other cars on the market, whereas the VF, well it was our "Home Grown VF Commodore".
So, I suppose with the latent "anger"/public sentiment etc with VF production ending, the "Peugot Aspect", the ZB has had a few situations running against it, but take away all of that, and I don't think it's as bad as some portray.
Just my opinion, Pickles.
no argument from me Martin.. its is not bad
but in the competition it is not a stand out...

btw.. i think Holden are doing it tuff in the market place.
I got an ad via email today to put on the staff notice boards
.... specially for us fleet buyers. Terms are -

$2,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore RS-V, Calais, Calais V VXR models only.
$1,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore LT & RS models. Loyalty code is transferable
but can be redeemed only once. ( I have several if employees are interested enuff)
Offer valid for Private and ABN buyers only. Offer valid until June 30, 2018.
7 year/unlimited km warranty (whichever occurs first) and 7 years roadside assistance

[Pickles]

no argument from me Martin.. its is not bad
but in the competition it is not a stand out...

btw.. i think Holden are doing it tuff in the market place.
I got an ad via email today to put on the staff notice boards
.... specially for us fleet buyers. Terms are -

$2,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore RS-V, Calais, Calais V VXR models only.
$1,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore LT & RS models. Loyalty code is transferable
but can be redeemed only once. ( I have several if employees are interested enuff)
Offer valid for Private and ABN buyers only. Offer valid until June 30, 2018.
7 year/unlimited km warranty (whichever occurs first) and 7 years roadside assistance



Yes, pretty much agree with all that.
I was talking to Adam Sawicki who is the Dealer Principal of Baycity, but also head of the Victorian Dealer Council or whatever they call it.
Obviously Holden is not where it wants to be, but there are better times ahead, HSV have also got some good stuff coming,.....their new Walkinshaw Park facility is very good indeed,.....Have you been there yet?.....I reckon Camaro will be good, and Dealers are really waiting for Silverado,.....what a machine!
Time will tell on all this stuff.
Pickles.

[mjrandom]

no argument from me Martin.. its is not bad
but in the competition it is not a stand out...

btw.. i think Holden are doing it tuff in the market place.
I got an ad via email today to put on the staff notice boards
.... specially for us fleet buyers. Terms are -

$2,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore RS-V, Calais, Calais V VXR models only.
$1,000 incl. GST cash back applies to ZB Commodore LT & RS models. Loyalty code is transferable
but can be redeemed only once. ( I have several if employees are interested enuff)
Offer valid for Private and ABN buyers only. Offer valid until June 30, 2018.
7 year/unlimited km warranty (whichever occurs first) and 7 years roadside assistance



Do tbey even read what they write? 7 years/unlimited km warranty (whichever occurs first). Wonder who will exceed the unlimited km...

[Pickles]

Do tbey even read what they write? 7 years/unlimited km warranty (whichever occurs first). Wonder who will exceed the unlimited km...

No, it simply means that the warranty is for seven years, no matter how many klms are driven.
Pickles.

[A^K^T]

Saw a forth ZB (a wagon) the other week , have seen a couple of Tealas in that time as well.

Apparently there are around 200 Teslas in WA.

[mjrandom]

No, it simply means that the warranty is for seven years, no matter how many klms are driven.
Pickles.

Obviously it is time limited so the words "whichever occurs first" are redundant. That is the point I was making. Just say 7 years unlimited warranty.

[Pickles]

Obviously it is time limited so the words "whichever occurs first" are redundant. That is the point I was making. Just say 7 years unlimited warranty.

Ah yes, I see what you're saying!
Pickles.

[raff]

Apparently over 1000 ZBs ‘sold’ in May? That’s about double last months......

[Pickles]

Apparently over 1000 ZBs ‘sold’ in May? That’s about double last months......

That's gotta be good for Holden.
I reckon if buyers could just get over the negativity created by the end of manufacturing in Aus, the car would sell much better.
Pickles.

[raff]

I think they did themselves no favours by calling it a Commodore. Marketing balls up. Would have been better to let the Commodore die out with the last of the Aus built VFs and let the new ZB fight it out with the Camry’s, Mazda 6 etc

[csv rulz]

Whilst the ZB is a flop sales wise for many reasons its not holdens only problem. They have had no consistency in any part of their business. From all the turn over in management staff, to changing a cars name with every model, eg: astra/viva/cruze/astra or vectra/epica/malibu/insignia/commodore and the changes in warranty every other month.
Holden need to pick a direction and stick to it

[Aus8]

Agree totally and even as people who have a little bit of a bias towards the brand although no much anymore I ask myself what car in the range is best in class? Can’t think of a single car they have right now that I would buy over the opposition models. That is the real problem!

[Micks]

Going to a ZB after my VF2, would be like going from a VL group A to a VN V6 :spew:

[whitels1ss]

Interesting.....

"Holden Commodore drops out of the top 20 list as passenger cars generally fall out of favour

THE Holden Commodore has fallen to number 23 on the list of Australia’s best-selling passenger cars in May as the brand struggles to find solid ground in the wake of its exit from Australian manufacturing.
But that number is still fluffed up by sales of remaining locally built stock. Subtract the 157 VFII Commodore sales from the mix, and Holden moved only 883 of the new, fully imported ZB model, which would have dropped it another three rungs on the bestsellers’ list.

"Year to date, Commodore sales are down more than 50 percent on the same five-month period last year at 4225, preliminary data shows. Of those, only 2204 are of the new Opel Insignia-based ZB -- meaning Holden has sold fewer of its new Commodores this year than Ford has sold Mustangs (2285)."
Read next: April new car sales: Holden feels a different type of pain
Holden, meanwhile, had another month of struggles in the showroom during May, falling to number eight on the charts after managing just 5129 sales for the month. Only the Spark (123) and Barina (284) managed to build on May last year’s numbers -- by a combined 12 sales -- with the new Equinox (428) finally shuffling ahead of its replacement, the Captiva (370).
Overall, new-car sales tapped the brakes firmly in May, falling to just 100,754 for the month, a 2.1 percent contraction compared with the same month last year. It leaves the market exactly the same margin -- 2.1 percent -- ahead of the first five months of last year."


Top 20.

Toyota Corolla 3120 3160
Hyundai i30 2779 2683
Mazda3 2586 2594
Mazda CX-5 2382 2298
Toyota RAV4 2063 1977
Mitsubishi ASX 2029 1742
Volkswagen Golf 1951 1534
Kia Cerato 1843 1,735
Hyundai Tucson 1839 2135
Toyota Prado 1712 1619
Nissan X-Trail 1476 1992
Toyota Camry 1451 2233
Honda CR-V 1342 512
Mitsubishi Outlander 1275 1405
Mazda CX-3 1,274 1542
Toyota Kluger 1271 1145
Kia Sportage 1267 1206
Hyundai Accent 1251 1353
Subaru XV 1223 145
Hyundai Kona 1192 -



https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/vfacts-may-2018-ford-mustang-outselling-holdens-zb-commodore

[QIKMIK]

Not interesting, just sad. Can't believe a company like Holden misread the market so badly. Do we thank head office in Detroit for killing an Aussie icon?

Mick

[Pickles]

Not interesting, just sad. Can't believe a company like Holden misread the market so badly. Do we thank head office in Detroit for killing an Aussie icon?

Mick

Detroit are massively involved,...nothing to do with the Aussie Govt, the secret to the future of VF was exports, particularly to the U.S. where they had nothing like the Chevy SS, which would've been a great export market for Holden,........IF GM had promoted it, BUT THEY DIDN'T, .....ask them why......No manufacturer in the world could survive on sales for a single model, available only to a single market, like Aussie.
Pickles.

[Micks]

Detroit are massively involved,...nothing to do with the Aussie Govt, the secret to the future of VF was exports, particularly to the U.S. where they had nothing like the Chevy SS, which would've been a great export market for Holden,........IF GM had promoted it, BUT THEY DIDN'T, .....ask them why......No manufacturer in the world could survive on sales for a single model, available only to a single market, like Aussie.
Pickles.

Yes keep believing that BS Martin :goodjob:

[Smitty]

Not interesting, just sad. Can't believe a company like Holden misread the market so badly. Do we thank head office in Detroit for killing an Aussie icon?

Mick

g'day from sunny England
can I say that GM also killed Vauxhall?

the Vauxhall equivalent of the ZB is a dead duck sales wise
(been here 3 days.. seen ONE Vauxhall Insignia) but
intersting that the Astra here is a sales winner.. big seller
and lots on the road

[whitels1ss]

g'day from sunny England
can I say that GM also killed Vauxhall?

the Vauxhall equivalent of the ZB is a dead duck sales wise
(been here 3 days.. seen ONE Vauxhall Insignia) but
intersting that the Astra here is a sales winner.. big seller
and lots on the road

How about the Ford Mondeo Smitty?
Have heard some good reviews on them from overseas but they don't seem to have done so well here.

What is your opinion on them?

[csv rulz]

How about the Ford Mondeo Smitty?
Have heard some good reviews on them from overseas but they don't seem to have done so well here.

What is your opinion on them?Dont think ive ever seen a TV Commercial for the Mondeo. Ford seem to do next to no advertising which is why they only really sell Ranger and Mustang in decent numbers

[whitels1ss]

I prefer the look of the Mondeo to the new Commodore! :yup:

[Smitty]

How about the Ford Mondeo Smitty?
Have heard some good reviews on them from overseas but they don't seem to have done so well here.

What is your opinion on them?

drove one in Oz when they were first released.. nothing special but nothing bad
get out of a Camry and get into a Mondeo.. they drive similarly whitegoods on wheels

I never went further with them, as like with the Falcon, Ford are tight arses
when it comes to fleet pricing. I get better pricing from Audi BMW and
Peugot than I get from Ford (and Holden fleet discount can be double Fords)

Interesting as I have driven around the area around Heathrow, Slough, Reading
and into inner London (Richmond Twickenham) in the past few days I don't recall seeing one

It appears in the UK that the small Ford Focus, Vauxhall Astra vehicles are the popular
choice.. .. LOTS!

And apart from the odd Rangey, NO Colorado Ranger BT50 trucks to be seen anywhere
and even the smaller SUV= HRV, Escape, Equinox are nowhere to be seen

Completely different here in the UK

[whitels1ss]

drove one in Oz when they were first released.. nothing special but nothing bad
get out of a Camry and get into a Mondeo.. they drive similarly whitegoods on wheels

I never went further with them, as like with the Falcon, Ford are tight arses
when it comes to fleet pricing. I get better pricing from Audi BMW and
Peugot than I get from Ford (and Holden fleet discount can be double Fords)

Interesting as I have driven around the area around Heathrow, Slough, Reading
and into inner London (Richmond Twickenham) in the past few days I don't recall seeing one

It appears in the UK that the small Ford Focus, Vauxhall Astra vehicles are the popular
choice.. .. LOTS!

And apart from the odd Rangey, NO Colorado Ranger BT50 trucks to be seen anywhere
and even the smaller SUV= HRV, Escape, Equinox are nowhere to be seen

Completely different here in the UK

Yeah they love the small economical stuff.

How is the price of fuel these days over there?

[Smitty]

Yeah they love the small economical stuff.

How is the price of fuel these days over there?

fuel prices vary a little bit.. but around Heathrow Windsor Richmond
area, the price seems to be an average of GBP1.20 ltre (about AUD$2.20-2.25)

Interesting... talking to the family here I asked how much fuel prices had risen
with the oil prices? Got quizzical looks.... coz the price of petrol and diesel
has changed little in the past 18 months. Quite different to the gouging going
on at home.
....:flamin:

[whitels1ss]

fuel price seems to be an average of GBP1.20 ltre (about AUD$2.20-2.25)

....:flamin:

Would not like using 100l per week over there then! :shock:

[Ausmartin1]

Yep we can thank Detroit for screwing up Holden's Exports when they cancelled the Pontiac brand or maybe it didn't fit with them paying NO TAX in Australia like FORD, NISSAN & MITSUBISHI got to love those creative accountants to give Australians the Shaft.

As to the look of the ZB local dealer has one in Black AWD in the shopping centre along with a Nissan SUV & VW SUV and a Suzuki.
Got to say the ZB looks dated style wise by comparision and I think they chose black to hide the look, but with cars and SUV's being appliances these days it was not surprising to see no one looking at the new vehicles in a busy shopping centre.
I think the majority of the younger generation have zero enthusiasm and much rather be absorbed in their mobile phones.

[Smitty]

.. just to add to all this

saw a Vauxhall ad on the teev here a few minutes ago
interesting what their slogan is

The BRITISH brand since 1903

so just what is holden's (since manufacturing stopped)??

[BLACK 346]

If it were not for this forum and a couple of motoring mags that I read, I would not even know that Holden still had a Commodore in it's range.

[A^K^T]

According to Wikipedia founded 1856 and 1908 it moved into the automotive field.
Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden)

[Jag530G]

.. just to add to all this

saw a Vauxhall ad on the teev here a few minutes ago
interesting what their slogan is

The BRITISH brand since 1903

so just what is holden's (since manufacturing stopped)??

Well Vauxhall is owned by Peugeot now, so Holden could say it’s an Australian brand since the 1850s.

I’m in The UK at the moment and it is interesting to see the slower rise of CUVs, the smaller SUVs. Not surprised that there aren’t many Vauxhall Insigias on the road, large sedans are dead. People want SUVs or in the case in Europe BMWs, Merck’s and Audi’s. The difference in price between a BMW and an up spec insignia isn’t great. This phenomenon is why the Omega was dropped years ago.

Cheers, Matthew

[BLACKVE]

drove one in Oz when they were first released.. nothing special but nothing bad
get out of a Camry and get into a Mondeo.. they drive similarly whitegoods on wheels

I never went further with them, as like with the Falcon, Ford are tight arses
when it comes to fleet pricing. I get better pricing from Audi BMW and
Peugot than I get from Ford (and Holden fleet discount can be double Fords)



Interesting my misses is fleet manager for 150 cars and 90% are ford they really want the business, mix of Mondeo wagons rangers and transits, just 2 falcons left in fleet.

Shes got a Everest atm from ford as a trial car and fleet pricing is great.

[Smitty]

Interesting my misses is fleet manager for 150 cars and 90% are ford they really want the business, mix of Mondeo wagons rangers and transits, just 2 falcons left in fleet.

Shes got a Everest atm from ford as a trial car and fleet pricing is great. ...curious that
We were just about all Ford when I was appointed fleet manager back at the end of 2011 but all were bought at full retail coz the drivers were told to get a quote for a xx model Ford to replace their existing car.
When I got the national fleet manager title put on the business card... I went to all makers of cars in the fleet then Toyota Holden BMW Audi etc all offered decent discounts. Ford? ... said no. Simple as that!

4 years later. .. no Fords and I had reduced the cost of the fleet by over $500,000. Even saved 50k on the couple of BMWs on changeover

[Smitty]

..ps
Saw an Amarok on the way to the airport (flying to Ireland to be sure to be sure 😊 )

[Jag530G]

I can see why SUVs and CUVs are killing sedan sales. I hustled rented a Ford Kuga (now badges as Escape in oz). Base model with 1.5 turbo diesel. I was amazed at how well it went for mid range high way driving up to Isle of Skye from Fort William doing plenty of 60kph-100kph speeds. It’s based on a Ford Focus platform butvthe upright seating allows more Leg room. The downside of course is the handling, a bit floaty. Apart from handling why buy a Focus over a Escape? If you wanted a day to day runabout/work vehicle they make sense. And that’s 95% of people. In the UK I think they will become a status symbol as your ordinary Astra/Focus hatched become even more fleet fodder and SUVs will be seen above that.

[BLACKVE]

I can see why SUVs and CUVs are killing sedan sales. I hustled rented a Ford Kuga (now badges as Escape in oz). Base model with 1.5 turbo diesel. I was amazed at how well it went for mid range high way driving up to Isle of Skye from Fort William doing plenty of 60kph-100kph speeds. It’s based on a Ford Focus platform butvthe upright seating allows more Leg room. The downside of course is the handling, a bit floaty. Apart from handling why buy a Focus over a Escape? If you wanted a day to day runabout/work vehicle they make sense. And that’s 95% of people. In the UK I think they will become a status symbol as your ordinary Astra/Focus hatched become even more fleet fodder and SUVs will be seen above that.

We got a ford edge in Canada and same drove nice and we could fit all our baggage in it did over 2000kms in it and petrol turbo had enough grunt for overtaking. Ok for a daily

Believe its the mazda cx9 base.

[BLACKVE]

...curious that
We were just about all Ford when I was appointed fleet manager back at the end of 2011 but all were bought at full retail coz the drivers were told to get a quote for a xx model Ford to replace their existing car.
When I got the national fleet manager title put on the business card... I went to all makers of cars in the fleet then Toyota Holden BMW Audi etc all offered decent discounts. Ford? ... said no. Simple as that!

4 years later. .. no Fords and I had reduced the cost of the fleet by over $500,000. Even saved 50k on the couple of BMWs on changeover

Yeh the fleet market is odd they done the run around for good/better deals but ford won by a mile Toyota just dont seem to care same as holden.

Funny Mercedes has got some sale with there sprinter Vans with a good discount but availability not always good, there can also be a wait on some speced rangers sometimes.

[Souljah]

Work has the new turbo diesel Ford Transit vans. Just a lazy 30k between services/oil changes. :eeeeek:

[Smitty]

I can see why SUVs and CUVs are killing sedan sales. I hustled rented a Ford Kuga (now badges as Escape in oz). Base model with 1.5 turbo diesel. I was amazed at how well it went for mid range high way driving up to Isle of Skye from Fort William doing plenty of 60kph-100kph speeds. It’s based on a Ford Focus platform butvthe upright seating allows more Leg room. The downside of course is the handling, a bit floaty. Apart from handling why buy a Focus over a Escape? If you wanted a day to day runabout/work vehicle they make sense. And that’s 95% of people. In the UK I think they will become a status symbol as your ordinary Astra/Focus hatched become even more fleet fodder and SUVs will be seen above that.

Avis at Dublin airport offered me a Qashqai SUV or a Skoda Estate for our trip around Ireland
I took the Skoda as the Qasqai is not known for its handling (or turning circle which is huge)

[BLACKVE]

Work has the new turbo diesel Ford Transit vans. Just a lazy 30k between services/oil changes. :eeeeek:

ITs great when your Vans do 200k in 2 yrs average.

[BLACKVE]

On topic still haven't seen a ZB on the road in Adelaide yet.

[Aus8]

On topic still haven't seen a ZB on the road in Adelaide yet.

Kind of fitting really it has no right there in the manufacturing place of the real Commodore! It had dare not show its ugly face there and feels embarrassed to have a Commodore badge on it.

[Smitty]

On topic still haven't seen a ZB on the road in Adelaide yet.

.... saw one today
in southern Ireland, the town of Waterford ( as in the glass crystal stuff)

https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35237520_10155692040551947_4276584092943777792_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=65138aa49811c38075b48c2167a71af9&oe=5BBD897A

https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35226183_10155692040716947_2822920444170993664_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=701c0af63e947483c643e649b747b026&oe=5BAA2934

[Ausmartin1]

One would hate to be in any managerial role at Holden right now ....
I do believe Holden has no plans to cull the dealer network which is second in size to Toyota, but look at the dealer sales per month.
The dealers are going to walk the plank by themselves and willingly, just from financial sales downsizing alone.
Scary but we all predicted it.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/wounded-lion-holdens-struggle-to-stay-alive-report

[A^K^T]

Saw another ZB the other day.
A white wagon , so that makes five (but i may have seen the same car twice).
I also saw a first generation Magna yesterday , must be the only one running.

[jc_sv8]

Probably worth more than the commodore now...

[CLUBRED]

ZB sightings for me are fairly regular now. Mostly Calais Tourers and RS sedans.

[SASLS1]

I have only seen one white ZB Insigneedoor Calais a week or two ago.

Nothing since...

100% Kaput Zero...

Looks like a Volvo to me, at the front.

Holden have Totally Screwed up Big Time... with this 100% import decision...

When VE's and VF's were first released, I saw dozens of them on the roads straight away.

ZB stuff all... from my scientific on road sighting meter...

ZB has totally missed the mark...

In Da Bin...

[Smitty]

..........................
The dealers are going to walk the plank by themselves and willingly, just from financial sales downsizing alone.
Scary but we all predicted it.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/wounded-lion-holdens-struggle-to-stay-alive-report

one dealer I know... 6 maybe 8 years ago had Holden HSV and Kia brands in their dealerships around the state
today?
8 different brands... this is the way to survive in this market place I reckon

[BLACKVE]

one dealer I know... 6 maybe 8 years ago had Holden HSV and Kia brands in their dealerships around the state
today?
8 different brands... this is the way to survive in this market place I reckon

Maybe Holden dealers need a Macca's and subway to keep foot traffic

I still wonder how Toyota sells so much, average product generally engines underpowered compared to rest and only 3yr warranty. Our Nov 14 build Prado at 62000k needs new steering rack engine rattles like a bitch and rattles creaks like a VB Commodore(note never taken off road)

[mjrandom]

Our Nov 14 build Prado at 62000k needs new steering rack engine rattles like a bitch and rattles creaks like a VB Commodore(note never taken off road)

There is your problem!

[whitels1ss]

I saw e red one on the road on Friday! :bravo:

[C4B]

Maybe Holden dealers need a Macca's and subway to keep foot traffic

I still wonder how Toyota sells so much, average product generally engines underpowered compared to rest and only 3yr warranty. Our Nov 14 build Prado at 62000k needs new steering rack engine rattles like a bitch and rattles creaks like a VB Commodore(note never taken off road)

Toyota sells so many because their products are bulletproof. Nobody buys a Toyota for the most powerful engine, they buy them because if you need to go somewhere, in a Toyota you will get there. I can't explain your experience because I've had a couple of Toyota 4WD's and never had an ounce of trouble with them.

I've just come back from working in some pretty remote areas of the NT. We normally rent through Hertz, but up in Darwin they only have Pajero's, so we went with Avis because they have Prado's.

[Souljah]

Drove past Wilsons Holden today and could no spot one ZB parked on the foot path or in the yard that's visible as you pass by. Kind of a strange marketing tactic i thinks....

[BLACKVE]

Toyota sells so many because their products are bulletproof. Nobody buys a Toyota for the most powerful engine, they buy them because if you need to go somewhere, in a Toyota you will get there. I can't explain your experience because I've had a couple of Toyota 4WD's and never had an ounce of trouble with them.

I've just come back from working in some pretty remote areas of the NT. We normally rent through Hertz, but up in Darwin they only have Pajero's, so we went with Avis because they have Prado's.
It's funny after we bought the Prado went on Prado point, the amount of 4D4 blow ups, injector issues blocked sump pickups surprised me.

Seen 3 zbs driving Adelaide to Bendigo hire cars?

[Xjas]

It's funny after we bought the Prado went on Prado point, the amount of 4D4 blow ups, injector issues blocked sump pickups surprised me.

My old mans D4D Pardo engine failed like this, they are better than most but certainly not bulletproof.

[whitels1ss]

Have not seen any ZB Commodore police cars yet. :lol:

[Pickles]

We're saying we haven't seen many ZBs around, and I haven't either, well,....and here's my point, I don't "think" I have?
My point being that they look so similar to many other cars, I don't think I'd notice one on a casual look, passing traffic etc.
Pickles.

[whitels1ss]

We're saying we haven't seen many ZBs around, and I haven't either, well,....and here's my point, I don't "think" I have?
My point being that they look so similar to many other cars, I don't think I'd notice one on a casual look, passing traffic etc.
Pickles.

Yeah, there is nothing special about them.

The other day when I noticed the red one I mentioned my thoughts were something along the lines of

"Ewwe.. that's ugly...... what is it? Oh it's one of those new things GM are trying to sell off as a Commodore!"

Hey as far as I am concerned, GM may as well bring back their old advertising slogan... "Game Over!"

[Pickles]

Yeah, there is nothing special about them.

The other day when I noticed the red one I mentioned my thoughts were something along the lines of

"Ewwe.. that's ugly...... what is it? Oh it's one of those new things GM are trying to sell off as a Commodore!"

Hey as far as I am concerned, GM may as well bring back their old advertising slogan... "Game Over!"

No mate, I do not subscribe to that, at all.
I was going past our friendly Holden Dealer today, & as We'd been asked to drop in to check out the Silverado, we did, and boy,...what a MASSIVE machine, & beautifully finished, (I was offered a test drive. but declined, they are truly HUGE, I reckon I'd need a truck driver's license!)they've already sold several, as they have Camaros, so things are looking good on the HSV front.
BUT, back to the "new" Commodore, had a look at the turbo 4 Calais wagon today,...mate, it's a bloody nice package, Euro build quality,....I simply do not know where all this negativity comes from. Sure, it ain't the Commodore we're used to, but that doesn't mean it's a piece of crap,...because it isn't.
Like We've all said before, yes, it looks like a lot of other cars, but again, I will say, that don't mean it ain't a good car.
Pickles.

[whitels1ss]

No mate, I do not subscribe to that, at all.
I was going past our friendly Holden Dealer today, & as We'd been asked to drop in to check out the Silverado, we did, and boy,...what a MASSIVE machine, & beautifully finished, (I was offered a test drive. but declined, they are truly HUGE, I reckon I'd need a truck driver's license!)they've already sold several, as they have Camaros, so things are looking good on the HSV front.
BUT, back to the "new" Commodore, had a look at the turbo 4 Calais wagon today,...mate, it's a bloody nice package, Euro build quality,....I simply do not know where all this negativity comes from. Sure, it ain't the Commodore we're used to, but that doesn't mean it's a piece of crap,...because it isn't.
Like We've all said before, yes, it looks like a lot of other cars, but again, I will say, that don't mean it ain't a good car.
Pickles.

Some good points Martin but taste is personal & I don't like the look of them at all.


As I said they look ugly in my opinion.

Yeah it's fantastic to know that people will soon be able to buy the Camaro etc & I am sure they would be good vehicles. :cheers:

[QIKMIK]

Finally saw one in traffic today that wasn't a demo from a local dealer. Even my 12 year old said it wasn't a real Commodore.

Mick

[Smitty]

No mate, I do not subscribe to that, at all.
I was going past our friendly Holden Dealer today, & as We'd been asked to drop in to check out the Silverado, we did, and boy,...what a MASSIVE machine, & beautifully finished, (I was offered a test drive. but declined, they are truly HUGE, I reckon I'd need a truck driver's license!)they've already sold several, as they have Camaros, so things are looking good on the HSV front.
BUT, back to the "new" Commodore, had a look at the turbo 4 Calais wagon today,...mate, it's a bloody nice package, Euro build quality,....I simply do not know where all this negativity comes from. Sure, it ain't the Commodore we're used to, but that doesn't mean it's a piece of crap,...because it isn't.
Like We've all said before, yes, it looks like a lot of other cars, but again, I will say, that don't mean it ain't a good car.
Pickles.

Martin I agree with you
(as I have said here before)

but Holden should never have called it 'Commodore'

it is not, never will be a replacement to the original
3 box sedan style VF which we know started as VB
It goes differently, handles differently, sounds different
.. all fine in its own right but it does not have the 'persona'
of what we call the 'Commodore'

[csv rulz]

With the exception of the Calais Tourer they are a very average looking car (styling wise)
The 2.0T is the certainly a ripping engine.

The problem is they named it commodore and against its competition it doesnt stand out in anyway.

The VF stood out from the crowd with RWD, V8 & M6 options in a very handsome package. It was always going to be a hard act to follow.

I almost feel had ZB been released after VZ it would have been a lot better received.

[Smitty]

....................
I almost feel had ZB been released after VZ it would have been a lot better received.

They did... it was called MALIBU

and
what a piece of shite that was !
poor engine, poor visibility, very average handling
( I drove several at its release.. just a bad piece of auto engineering)
and
so it died in the show room... rightly so in my opinion

[csv rulz]

They did... it was called MALIBU

and
what a piece of shite that was !
poor engine, poor visibility, very average handling
( I drove several at its release.. just a bad piece of auto engineering)
and
so it died in the show room... rightly so in my opinionMalibu and ZB are vastly different cars despite the similar size. You are right, Malibu didnt deserve to sell

[Pickles]

They did... it was called MALIBU

and
what a piece of shite that was !
poor engine, poor visibility, very average handling
( I drove several at its release.. just a bad piece of auto engineering)
and
so it died in the show room... rightly so in my opinion

Agree,...Malibu, what a shocker,....why would Holden try to sell it?
Pickles.

[GPT]

Agree,...Malibu, what a shocker,....why would Holden try to sell it?
Pickles.

They never learned from Epica , now that was real shite!

[Pickles]

They never learned from Epica , now that was real shite!

GPT,...SPOT ON, I was trying to think of that name yesterday!!!......What an absolute SHOCKER, a SQUILLION times worse than Malibu, IMHO!!
Pickles.

[Smitty]

They never learned from Epica , now that was real shite!

indeed...!
and all the unsold Epicas got sent to Singapore... where they make up about
80% of the taxi fleet there. Want a cab ride from Changi to your hotel in Singapore
chances are it will be in an Epica :eeew:

[CLUBRED]

We had an Epica diesel company car, I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would.

[GPT]

These are almost Mazda like in the front, and the rare chance you see one it doesn't stand out as a Holden at all. Finally saw one last week on the road.

In the same week saw

Several Tesla's
Lambo Adventador
Torana XU1
Brock VK Group A

[Micks]

This sums up the ZB for me :yup:

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36594192_10214652413962466_6987394440306360320_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEAuora6DFcfOnVZCvSdg6kEz2WWcXennmEP57dK Y1QqHQ5S2suvCgSohM604XuYMugB68KNv5pVSnGUPKJVku5qy0 LZwntQVxvoM_1XraA3Q&oh=0bc49de8a985faa59e45a2c4034a5cbb&oe=5B9E30CF

[Ausmartin1]

Yep no One buying the politically correct Trendy hair do BS in 2018.

Both Holden and Ford need to look after customers with a high level of service, actual pay dealers for warranty work (instead of short changing them on time that only a highly skilled magician could do)
Otherwise all the re-launch and marketing BS along with waste of money will fall flat.

Australians have had the "experience" so the old American Shiny mudguard on top ($hit underneath) won't convince customers unless they truly change.
Holden & Ford are chronic cases requiring change / but the American or Singapore control of Holden will slow them down in our part of the world along with the corporate will.

[amckiwi]

Saw an add on foxtel last night

[Ausmartin1]

Saw an add on foxtel last night

Lol at least someone in Australia is making money out of them!

In the mean time new Kia Stinger is selling to the Qld police :

https://media.caradvice.com.au/image/upload/c_fill,q_auto,f_auto,w_auto,ar_16:9/c_scale,l_ca_watermark,o_50,h_0.1,x_0.05,y_0.05,fl _region_relative,g_north_east/gu12j4oo7zxmfvaoikbb.jpg

[Smitty]

Lol at least someone in Australia is making money out of them!

In the mean time new Kia Stinger is selling to the Qld police :

https://media.caradvice.com.au/image/upload/c_fill,q_auto,f_auto,w_auto,ar_16:9/c_scale,l_ca_watermark,o_50,h_0.1,x_0.05,y_0.05,fl _region_relative,g_north_east/gu12j4oo7zxmfvaoikbb.jpg

wow... QldPol are brave

see the Stinger has them ... licorice Contis
(black and slippery no grip wheel rim covers)

[zorro]

wow... QldPol are brave

see the Stinger has them ... licorice Contis
(black and slippery no grip wheel rim covers)

You never driven one have you? Take the knuckle dragging mentality out of the equation for a minute you would see they are a good thing, yeah no V8 I get it but really I wouldn’t discount them.

[Smitty]

You never driven one have you? Take the knuckle dragging mentality out of the equation for a minute you would see they are a good thing, yeah no V8 I get it but really I wouldn’t discount them.

get your facts right before throwing a comment up like that which is plain wrong .....



My R8 Clubbie HAD slippery shitty Contis on it from new (it does not now)
and
yes I have had a Stinger for a weekend and the Contis on that were still shit!

My opinion... yes but based on experience. So putting Contis on a police car
which could be involved with pursuits is 'brave'.

[Micks]

You never driven one have you? Take the knuckle dragging mentality out of the equation for a minute you would see they are a good thing, yeah no V8 I get it but really I wouldn’t discount them.

I'm :confused: thought Smitty was speaking of rubber?

[BLACK 346]

I'm :confused: thought Smitty was speaking of rubber?

Yeah, was pretty obvious to me that he was referring to the tyre's that are factory fitted to the Stinger.

[Smitty]

I'm :confused: thought Smitty was speaking of rubber?

I was .... having driven several vehicles with them on
they are not a nice tyre in my opinion

[C4B]

I was .... having driven several vehicles with them on
they are not a nice tyre in my opinion

It won't make any difference to the QLD Police... they aren't allowed to pursue anything these days so unless they are dangerous at posted speed limit speeds they're unlikely to cause any problems.

[BLACKVE]

https://m.facebook.com/sapolicenews/photos/a.267092160034800.62496.101740356569982/1817195478357786/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R

[whitels1ss]

Seeing some once large, long established, Holden dealerships around town sitting abandoned like old ghost towns. :doh:

[Smitty]

Seeing some once large, long established, Holden dealerships around town sitting abandoned like old ghost towns. :doh:

or now acting for another maker, as happened with Doncaster Holden
now an AUDI outlet

[whitels1ss]

or now acting for another maker, as happened with Doncaster Holden
now an AUDI outlet

I drove past Plaza Holden yesterday, they were a Halal dealer for 5 minutes now it's empty & deserted.

Claridge Holden is now a Mercedes Benz dealership,

Metro Holden is now only a used car outlet.

Gilbert Holden is now Toyota.

Such a shame to see them all gone. :doh:

[jc_sv8]

Gilbert’s saw the writing on the wall years ago.

[jc_sv8]

Hunters in St Leonards is now a Tesla dealership.

[whitels1ss]

Gilbert’s saw the writing on the wall years ago.

:lol:True...I actually know some of the Gilbert family, they are lovely, salt of the earth Australian people.:goodjob:

What happened was a very funny story.......

It went something along the lines of Grant telling Holden to belt their franchise up their *#@&.:lmao:


Such a shame he passed away last year in a plane crash!

https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/mt-barker-air-crash-tribute-pilot-grant-gilbert-a-community-stalwart-who-loved-mt-barker-and-helping-others/news-story/7975e348606c233f026f7f40bc5a6b11

[CLUBRED]

Yeah, was pretty obvious to me that he was referring to the tyre's that are factory fitted to the Stinger.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/665383/kia-continental-michelin-stinger/

[Pickles]

Why are you guys knocking "Holden",....even as it is now, jeez guys, HOLDEN is still HOLDEN,....get positive & support the brand.
People seem to forget that the very first VB was not a "Holden" ...it was an OPel.
I'm a "Holden" man, I'm an Aussie, I support the brand,....& I support the Dealers.
"Aussie" is getting erased in all sorts of ways.....FFS, lets support an Aussie icon,.......I will be.
Drive one, then post your opinion on here.
Pickles.

[amckiwi]

Saw one today finally

[Pickles]

Saw one today finally
All good mate, I can't even remember seeing one myself, because they do look similar to many other current makes,..so I simply don't see them, but hey, I don't make a habit of looking either.
In any event, it doesn't make ém a bad car.
I say simply, look at one, drive one, then tell me, on this forum, what YOU say is a problem with them.
Pickles.

[Smitty]

anyone interested in where this is going , have a read of this...

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-reviews/ford-mondeo-v-holden-calais-v-hyundai-sonata-v-kia-stinger-v-toyota-camry-comparison-review?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Wheels_18_07_11&utm_term=list_wheels_newsletter

having driven all but the Hyundai, I don't disagree with much and the conclusion
I also have no issue with. The curious bit is they left out the Mazda 6

[jc_sv8]

:lol:True...I actually know some of the Gilbert family, they are lovely, salt of the earth Australian people.:goodjob:

What happened was a very funny story.......

It went something along the lines of Grant telling Holden to belt their franchise up their *#@&.:lmao:

Such a shame he passed away last year in a plane crash!

https://www.news.com.au/national/south-australia/mt-barker-air-crash-tribute-pilot-grant-gilbert-a-community-stalwart-who-loved-mt-barker-and-helping-others/news-story/7975e348606c233f026f7f40bc5a6b11

Indeed! I grew up with the Gilbert’s (my dad’s cousins) so I know the back story well.
They are a fantastic family and have done Mt Barker proud.

His was one of the first Teslas I ever saw.

[Ausmartin1]

Holden to Offer $500 to people who test drive & then buy from a competitor brand.

Holly crap! Holden are so desperate for sales I think the marketing department just shat it's dacks - this could backfire on them costing a bomb.
Why?
Times have changed as Aussies like to cross shop and don't fall for the first vehicle they test drive.
The more arrogant and pushy (re desperate) the more likely a prospective buyer will walk away.
Especially when the vehicle range is "average" or less in their class categories.
No stellar vehicles at a Holden dealership currently is the best summary I've overheard while visiting.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/holden/holden-puts-its-money-where-its-mouth-is/2018-07-08/73987.html

[JJW501]

How many cars are sold in Oz each year? Anyone who is buying a car can go down to holden for 15 minutes and get $500?

Have they thought this through? They must have some clauses in place to wriggle out, surely!

[whitels1ss]

I would not like to be a salesperson in a Holden dealership at the moment.

More people walking through the door, going for test drives with very little intention of buying

& a sales manager on your back because your conversion ratio is at a record low. :doh:

[Micks]

I would not like to be a salesperson in a Holden dealership at the moment.

More people walking through the door, going for test drives with very little intention of buying

& a sales manager on your back because your conversion ratio is at a record low. :doh:

Yes a very good guy I dealt with at Suttons for my last two new rides has left last year, have NFI why!!

[Pickles]

Yes a very good guy I dealt with at Suttons for my last two new rides has left last year, have NFI why!!

Did you ever deal with or hear of Denys Gillespie, He was at the Chullora branch?.....anybody on here know where He is now?
Pickles.

[macca_779]

Lol!!....why don't you say what you REALLY think?!
Have you driven one yet?
Pickles.

I agree with him completley. And yes I've driven a couple including the VXR.. Nice seats, thats about all!

[Smitty]

That's Easy...
Poor Marketing decisions, and zero accountability, and holden still trying to justify their poor choices, instead of admitting they Totally stuff up and make the required changes to fix the problem instaed of sitting on the sinking ship.... In the Insigneedoor...

The VB commodore was Rear Wheel Drive!!!...... and every single other commodore including the last VF...

The insigneedoor Is Not RWD!!!...

There is the Total Complete Disconnect.... associated with the commodore name, that is totally non existent / missing in action...

The insigneedoor is only available in useless FWD or the waste of time & added weight... for no real benefit of puttying around the Suburbs with AWD...

Why call the insigneedoor a commodore, when it resembles completely nothing of what it was???

That would have to be the most... Stupid / Foolish / Moronic / Idiotic...... marketing decision ever made by Holden Period... calling it a commodore IMO...

Holden would had received more respect for the insigneedoor, if they put the commodore name to bed, and gave it, it's Own all new name...

Instead they called it a commodore and just pissed everybody body off... Total Epic Fail!!!.... in the Marketing department...


Your quote "I support the Dealers"......

What you like paying huge markups, for vastly over inflated prices for parts and service...

The 1000% markup of Placebo... Paint, Interior, Rust and Body protection BS..... they try and force / up sell you when you buy a Brand new car, cost's them almost Nothing... and they charge you like $1000 a piece for each total BS Placebo protection system!!!... Seriously....


If Holden had introduced the insignia with a new name and 2L turbo (in RWD form) or V6TT (in RWD form) with both manual / auto options... there would of been a lot more interest in the car.

The V6 AWD non turbo is a waste of time.... the 2L turbo if coupled with RWD would of been lighter... more fuel efficient... and out preformed the AWD V6 no problem what so ever...

Just look at all the interest in the Stinger...

Interest in the insigneedoor is non existent...

I have still only seen one on the road to date, IE = Pathedic sales!!!...


If you like the insigneedoor so much, go knock yourself out, and go buy one...

guess.... you ain't interested in buying one then :driving:

whilst I take that much of the above rant is your opinion and a bit over the top
and full of emotion and one you are entitled to, having driven one (no... quite a number now)
as a car, the ZB is not bad as transport, pretty much the same as Camry or Mazda or Kia now,
just whitegoods on wheels these days. There is no emotion in ZB as a car :(
unlike VB or VY or VF. Geez, we really enjoyed a V8 VB SL/E when they came out

Different to the VF, definitely ! and we are all sad that died and I think most of us agree
(as you do) that Holden screwed up with ZB. My own opinion being an ex Holden employee
is that... Holden had no choice. Big Brother GM and federal pollies had a big stick.

But I do think and agree the one BAD mistake Holden made .. was to call it Commodore.

At the retail release of the ZB, which I attended, I was asked by Holden's senior
sales guys my opinion on that. My reply was ...it should never have been badged
Commodore and you will struggle to sell it, simply because of that! Call it something
else and the showroom foot traffic will come. As a Commodore, dealers will not
see interest from potential customers

And I think I called that right.

I support the brand, Holden and dealers employ thousands of us but my support is
not blinkered. If I can get something of better value from another manufacturer, I will
put my $ somewhere else.

Also, I buy lots of cars for my employer (am National Fleet Manager) and when the crunch
came a few months ago to replace an early VF EVOKE wagon, after assessment of everything
from Skoda to BMW to the ZB, $ for $ the ZB does the job . I bought two of them...
and will continue to do so until something better comes along that meets our fleet needs.


ps.... I feel that making remarks against members for having a different opinion to you,
never helps or adds to a discussion or topic here

[whitels1ss]

General reminder.....
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Just please keep all replies civil. :cheers:

[Xjas]

Why are you guys knocking "Holden",....even as it is now, jeez guys, HOLDEN is still HOLDEN,....get positive & support the brand.
People seem to forget that the very first VB was not a "Holden" ...it was an OPel.
I'm a "Holden" man, I'm an Aussie, I support the brand,....& I support the Dealers.
"Aussie" is getting erased in all sorts of ways.....FFS, lets support an Aussie icon,.......I will be.
Drive one, then post your opinion on here.
Pickles.

All just my opinion, but Holden (and Ford) ceased to be an Aussie icon when they stopped building cars in Australia, I have owned 5 Holdens and they were all built here, I will be keeping the two I currently have, VE ute and HQ sedan, partly because they are part of this icon of Australia.
Supporting the brand is a misguided notion, GM is a large public company who's over riding aim is to maximise profits for its shareholders, you own them no loyalty, they ceased to be your home team when they stopped building cars here.
From here on out Holden is just another manufacturer trying to make the most money they can from consumers, they contribute no more to the Australian economy than any other manufacturer, they owe me no loyalty and will get none in return, When I need a new car I will assess all vehicles that are suitable and buy whatever best suits my needs be that a Holden or any other brand, My current daily is a Pajero and its a great car.

[C4B]

All just my opinion, but Holden (and Ford) ceased to be an Aussie icon when they stopped building cars in Australia, I have owned 5 Holdens and they were all built here, I will be keeping the two I currently have, VE ute and HQ sedan, partly because they are part of this icon of Australia.
Supporting the brand is a misguided notion, GM is a large public company who's over riding aim is to maximise profits for its shareholders, you own them no loyalty, they ceased to be your home team when they stopped building cars here.
From here on out Holden is just another manufacturer trying to make the most money they can from consumers, they contribute no more to the Australian economy than any other manufacturer, they owe me no loyalty and will get none in return, When I need a new car I will assess all vehicles that are suitable and buy whatever best suits my needs be that a Holden or any other brand, My current daily is a Pajero and its a great car.

It's a hard fact to swallow but Holden is now just a retailer of overseas manufactured goods (no different to JB Hifi selling Samsung TV's). Yes, Holden do re-brand the products they import, but that's hardly unique..... even online sellers like Kogan rebrand TV's for sale.

Oh and before anyone gets too nostalgic and pulls out the fabled: Football, Meat Pies, Kangaroos and Holden Cars. It was a ripoff straight from the land of Apple Pie:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqweygy9K9Y

[Ausmartin1]

All just my opinion, but Holden (and Ford) ceased to be an Aussie icon when they stopped building cars in Australia, I have owned 5 Holdens and they were all built here, I will be keeping the two I currently have, VE ute and HQ sedan, partly because they are part of this icon of Australia.
Supporting the brand is a misguided notion, GM is a large public company who's over riding aim is to maximise profits for its shareholders, you own them no loyalty, they ceased to be your home team when they stopped building cars here.
From here on out Holden is just another manufacturer trying to make the most money they can from consumers, they contribute no more to the Australian economy than any other manufacturer, they owe me no loyalty and will get none in return, When I need a new car I will assess all vehicles that are suitable and buy whatever best suits my needs be that a Holden or any other brand, My current daily is a Pajero and its a great car.

Wow 100% well said,
Not only has Ford, Holden, Nissan & Mitsubishi abandoned us these x4 have PAID NO TAX IN THE LAST x3 YEARS IN AUSTRALIA!
you try getting a creative account for your personal tax and see how fair in Jail.
Not only that - WE have paid them & STILL DO to do R&D in Australia which they then use on overseas products to make huge profits in the case of Ford & GM.....

Ford is not interested in making cars only SUV's
and
GM is NOT interested in RHD markets - their internal priorities are:
North America
China
South America

They want Australians to be loyal ?
Loyalty goes both ways, but my personal opinion is we (Australia) have been loyally well and truly screwed over - Especially by American car companies from a total lack of direction and or self (USA) interests in the past till now.
Best they reap what they sow and eat it slowly.

Still enjoying my VXII a great Australian built local car thumbs up to the people that built it - been a great durable fun car, the current offerings now ... a mediocrity droplet in a sea of choice.

[BLACKVE]

Yes a very good guy I dealt with at Suttons for my last two new rides has left last year, have NFI why!! probably selling Kia stingers

[BLACK 346]

probably selling Kia stingers

I have seen twice as many Stingers on the road as I have ZB Commos. That would be 2.

[BLACKVE]

I have seen twice as many Stingers on the road as I have ZB Commos. That would be 2.

Your lucky my neighbour has one( works at Holden dealer) grr street valve has dropped

[A^K^T]

Since the last ZB i have seen a V8 MGB & Nissan GTR (a modern one) but ZB Commodores are still a rare sight.

[whitels1ss]

General reminder.....
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Just please keep all replies civil. :cheers:

Okay....

Have just deleted a few posts from a few members to clean up the thread.

Do we have to spell it out a little clearer?


We are all grown ups here.

Someone posted earlier in the thread that everyone is entitled to their opinion & nobody else has to agree
but that if someone else does not agree, best thing is to just "move on."


For the last time, please let's keep the thread going nicely.

Let's just leave it there. :cheers:

[whitels1ss]

Back on topic.....

I saw a red ZB in town yesterday! :yup:

[rgmast]

Saw the new silver zb Police car on Bridge Rd Para Hills (Adelaide) yesterday.
They definitely dont stand out like the white or blue police cars

[mac06]

I've been driving the RSV AWD for a couple of months and it goes well. On the open road with some town traffic I got 7.6L/100kms and around town I'm getting around 11L/100kms. The AWD system comes into its own in the wet. Pull out into traffic and give it a bit and you feel the system working to get traction and the car going in the direction intended. It's obviously not a V8 but there's plenty enough for everyday driving, plus a bit extra for spirited driving. The beauty is in the AWD and handling, not necessarily 0-100 times. Styling is subjective but I like it. In fact as time goes on I'm liking it more and more. The old era of manufacturers putting a million buttons on the centre dash are gone thankfully and the minimalist styling in the Commodore looks a lot better to me. The MyLink screen has no lag and works well. Will sales pick up in the months ahead? I hope so, but time will tell.

[Smitty]

will put this bit of news up here (no thread as I think it is relevant here)

announced today ....

Former Toyota Australia boss Dave Buttner will replace Holden managing director Mark Bernhard from next month, a move likely to send shockwaves through the car industry.

THE executive who helped drive Toyota to 15 years of dominance in Australia is about to become the new boss of Holden — as General Motors attempts to reverse a massive sales slide since the end of local manufacturing.

Mr Buttner left Toyota after overseeing the closure of the Camry factory in Melbourne last year, just weeks before Holden’s factory shutdown. He will begin as chairman and managing director of GM Holden next month

In a media statement GM executive vice president and president of GM International Barry Engle said: “Dave’s proven track record and understanding of Holden’s markets — and the company’s potential in those markets — makes him the right leader for this next phase in the evolution of the business”.

Mr Buttner will be Holden’s seventh boss in 10 years after Mr Bernhard announced his retirement from General Motors, ending 32 years of service with the global car giant.

[white lie]

Hopefully a move in the right direction for them. They needed to do something, that's for sure!

[dgp]

What a bunch of muppets.
Because they (GM) don't understand the demographic of THEIR market in Australia, they get rid of the top dog because it must be his fault. All companies behave like this, it makes me sick.

[BLACK 346]

Spotted a black Calais V this morning, looked small and unremarkable

[SASLS1]

Spotted a black Calais V this morning, looked small and unremarkable

That's exactly the problem, it doesn't in anyway, standout from the crowd...

Just looks like every other boring and nondescript vehicle, that doesn't draw any interest or emotion what so ever...

It's a Dead Duck IMO... and the very poor sales, totally reflect this...

Holden needs to Move On... from this total sales disaster ASAP...

[BLACK 346]

Are they substantially smaller than VE-VF? The wagon looks particularly tiny.

[CLUBRED]

From memory, the Tourers are a bit longer, but slightly narrower...

[csv rulz]

Are they substantially smaller than VE-VF? The wagon looks particularly tiny.Size wise they sit between VZ & VF. The biggest loss in size is the width

[A^K^T]

Saw a white ZB sedan on the way home from work yesterday , still a rare sight on the roads where i drive.

[Smitty]

From memory, the Tourers are a bit longer, but slightly narrower...

ZB wagon has same wheel base as VF..... I stuck one up next to my wagon on a test drive
less than 25-30mm in it

as mentioned width is the biggest difference, my guess ZB is about 100mm narrower
most notable inside the car I found.

Driver and passenger elbows clash on the console armrest

[Ausmartin1]

The house master of Beige accounting to lead Holden.
Things must be serious if they are putting a former Toyota Australia accountant in charge.
The difference is at Toyota the products sell themselves, crab the pop corn and lets see what in the world happens now!

https://premium.goauto.com.au/ex-toyota-exec-to-head-holden/

[CLUBRED]

From the brochures, worst case in mm...

Lengths:
VF Sportwagon = 4937
ZB Tourer = 5004

Widths:
VF Sportwagon = 1898
ZB Tourer = 1871

Wheelbase:
VF Sportwagon = 2915
ZB Tourer = 2829

Heights:
VF Sportwagon = 1474
ZB Tourer = 1525

[white lie]

Interesting figures. The ZB appears like it's a decent amount smaller. Perhaps it's in the lines/tapering as it seems "sleeker" so may be similar at the peaks but tighter angles reducing overall space?