LS3: Rattling sound when stone cold

[skip100]

MY17 Caprice (LS3) stock, 113,000km
Driven gently (Hire Car)
First thing in the morning, there is a rattling sound, and it goes away after about 30 seconds. I'm told this could be lifter bleed, and it shouldn't happen.
IF it is due to lifter bleed, is there any possibility it could just be normal for this engine?

Thanks in advance.

[Micks]

What visc. oil are you running & how often is it changed? Yours being a MY17 also a possibility of having the faulty rocker issue https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/holden-strikes-v8-trouble-110179/ that was a known recall. Was yours done?

[skip100]

I use the recommended GM Dexos 1 (5W30) and change it every 10,000km. I was never contacted about the faulty rockers, so assume mine isn't in the affected range. Thanks.

[skip100]

I've taken it to a workshop. In the meantime, here's a recording. It's particularly noticeable at about 40 seconds in: http://www.filedropper.com/coldstartrattle

[skip100]

It needs new lifters.

[Micks]

It needs new lifters.

Warranty?....

[skip100]

Warranty?....

It's technically out of warranty, but not by much. I don't like dealerships, so it's with a performance house - they'll probably do it better and quicker. However, I will send the bill to Holden and see if they'll make a contribution. (unlikely, because I didn't even demonstrate the symptom to them first)
Crossing my fingers the camshaft isn't damaged - I don't think so, because they would have informed me by now I think.

I'm a bit confused though - according to Wikipedia, rattle at startup isn't necessarily abnormal! I'm going to be REALLY peeved if the rattle is still there after the lifter swap:


Frequently, the valvetrain will rattle loudly on startup due to oil draining from the lifters when the vehicle is parked. This is not considered a significant issue provided the noise disappears within a couple of minutes; typically it usually lasts only a second or two. A rattle that does not go away can indicate a blocked oil feed, or that one or more of the lifters has collapsed due to wear and is no longer opening its valve fully. The affected lifter should be replaced in the latter situation.

[whitels1ss]

Would be a good time to do a camshaft upgrade......:idea:


there are even a few camshafts on the market these days that would even give you performance improvements keeping stock idle, good fuel economy & manners if you want. :goodjob:

[BLACKVE]

It's technically out of warranty, but not by much. I don't like dealerships, so it's with a performance house - they'll probably do it better and quicker. However, I will send the bill to Holden and see if they'll make a contribution. (unlikely, because I didn't even demonstrate the symptom to them first)
Crossing my fingers the camshaft isn't damaged - I don't think so, because they would have informed me by now I think.

I'm a bit confused though - according to Wikipedia, rattle at startup isn't necessarily abnormal! I'm going to be REALLY peeved if the rattle is still there after the lifter swap:

yeh generally lifter noise is rattle at startup(but not a long term issue) or a constant noise which is change out time sort of chrip noise

[skip100]

yeh generally lifter noise is rattle at startup(but not a long term issue) or a constant noise which is change out time sort of chrip noise
So, you personally agree with the Wiki quote - rattle that goes away under about 2 minutes isn't necessarily a problem?

Re the cam upgrade - I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone suggested this. NO THANKYOU :D

[amckiwi]

This is the route I am going with my L98

It is a lot of work / cost to get to them without doing upgrades

I would consider a new oil pump at the same time and upgraded bolts and timing chain... All things I am doing and mine is at 46,000 ks only


Would be a good time to do a camshaft upgrade......:idea:


there are even a few camshafts on the market these days that would even give you performance improvements keeping stock idle, good fuel economy & manners if you want. :goodjob:

[whitels1ss]

Re the cam upgrade - I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone suggested this. NO THANKYOU :D

I have seen cams that you can't even pick from stock (talking absolute smooth idle) until you drive the car & feel how much extra power it has.

Hey it's your car, it's your decision but you could turn it around into a great bonus.


BTW..... I hope your stock camshaft is not damaged by the faulty lifters. :cheers:

[Micks]

I don't think an 113K LS3 will need an oil pump, if the cam is faarked there are many shops with these sitting on their shelves with delivery K's on them only.
Very surprised though not impossible for your LS7 lifters to be shagged already especially being a HC as the slammer would rarely be cold :lol:

[skip100]

I don't think an 113K LS3 will need an oil pump, if the cam is faarked there are many shops with these sitting on their shelves with delivery K's on them only.
Very surprised though not impossible for your LS7 lifters to be shagged already especially being a HC as the slammer would rarely be cold :lol:

They said oil pressure is good, so they aren't replacing or upgrading the oil pump. Re the lifters, they found that one roller had come off it's pin. Also, there are now revised lifters - my engine had the old, non-revised ones. Btw, this article recommends replacing the lifters every 100,000km:
https://www.oztrack.com.au/2013-09-27-06-14-12/ls-engine-trouble-information-ls1-ls2-ls3-3-l98-l76-l77 Whether this still applies for the revised lifters I'm not sure, assuming their advice is/was sound.

Cam is ok, so that's one more reason not to upgrade the cam - all that extra labour, for something I most certainly don't need.

[whitels1ss]

Sounds like you have it well under control & truly underway.

All the best with it. :cheers:

[Micks]

They said oil pressure is good, so they aren't replacing or upgrading the oil pump. Re the lifters, they found that one roller had come off it's pin. Also, there are now revised lifters - my engine had the old, non-revised ones. Btw, this article recommends replacing the lifters every 100,000km:
https://www.oztrack.com.au/2013-09-27-06-14-12/ls-engine-trouble-information-ls1-ls2-ls3-3-l98-l76-l77 Whether this still applies for the revised lifters I'm not sure, assuming their advice is/was sound.

Cam is ok, so that's one more reason not to upgrade the cam - all that extra labour, for something I most certainly don't need.

You getting Oz to do the job? Good luck with it!

[skip100]

No, because they're a long way away. I did contact them though and they gave me a little bit of free advice, and even after I told them I was going elsewhere, they still gave me a bit more help - nice people.

[skip100]

Also, note that another HC driver I know lost his engine at 132,000km, and yes, it was due to a lifter failure. Same car as mine - late model Caprice with the LS3.
Thanks for the well wishes guys - appreciated.

[skip100]

I've got the car, but the acid test will be when I have had a chance to leave it off for about 12 hours. By the way, they said I definitely did NOT have the revised (=LS7) lifters, and they were surprised - most LS3s do.
They also put 10W/60 Castrol Pro Edge in, and told me that I'd "f*ck my engine" if I kept using the 5W/30. They said that the Dexos 1 5W/30 is more to do with emissions and fuel economy, than it is protection. As long as it gets through warranty, that's all they care about. Hmmmmm.
They said my engine was very clean inside - that's comforting. I've been using 95 RON.

[Micks]

I've got the car, but the acid test will be when I have had a chance to leave it off for about 12 hours. By the way, they said I definitely did NOT have the revised (=LS7) lifters, and they were surprised - most LS3s do.
They also put 10W/60 Castrol Pro Edge in, and told me that I'd "f*ck my engine" if I kept using the 5W/30. They said that the Dexos 1 5W/30 is more to do with emissions and fuel economy, than it is protection. As long as it gets through warranty, that's all they care about. Hmmmmm.
They said my engine was very clean inside - that's comforting. I've been using 95 RON.

Be surprised about the lifters not being LS7 style as GM haven't made the early lifters for quite a few yrs now were well known to be problematic!
Have run 10/60 in all my rides L76 AFM, L98 cammed & my stock LS3 no problems.

[skip100]

Left it for about 9 hours overnight, which is enough to cause the rattle at least a little bit - it didn't rattle. Onwards & upwards! ☺️

[Micks]

Left it for about 9 hours overnight, which is enough to cause the rattle at least a little bit - it didn't rattle. Onwards & upwards! ☺️

Glad it's behaving well now.
I'm a bit intrigued, your installer said "the cam was ok" a loose roller on a lifter will be abrasive on the lobe? Heads were lifted to replace lifters, did they put a scope down the lifter hole to inspect the cam or did they remove it?

[skip100]

Micks,
Unfortunately I can hear the rattle again, so now I'm wondering whether there was anything wrong at all. Re the loose roller, I don't know how they inspected the cam, but they did say that they would. It's a big job to remove the cam - yes? I doubt whether they had time to remove it, so I guess they must have put a scope down, if they're being honest.
Did you take a listen to the recording? Btw, I've started a thread over here as well: https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/cold-start-noise-is-this-normal.274021/ , because noone here offered an opinion on the recording. They insisted I upload the file to a more common/trusted site, so I (reluctantly) did so: https://soundcloud.com/stations/track/sullivang/ls3-cold-start-rattle
Again - the suspicious sound seems to be the loudest at about 40 seconds in.
I still haven't had a chance to leave the car off for 12 hours+, but even for about 6 hours, I think the sound is still there a bit.
Another question: do you agree with this statement about lifters, in general? Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_tappet#Disadvantages

Frequently, the valvetrain will rattle loudly on startup due to oil draining from the lifters when the vehicle is parked. This is not considered a significant issue provided the noise disappears within a couple of minutes; typically it usually lasts only a second or two.

[Micks]

Yes the lifters do leak down a little when left over that period though in your engine it should be negligible. Two minutes is way too long on warm up for this noise to disappear. Have the oil pressure checked first, you may well be chasing a faulty/damaged lobe on your cam.

[skip100]

The first thing they did was check the oil pressure - they said it's fine. Thanks.

[whitels1ss]

The first thing they did was check the oil pressure - they said it's fine. Thanks.

A pitted or damaged cam lobe won't show up with a drop oil pressure.

[skip100]

Micks: just noticed your comment re 2 minutes being too long. I never said it took 2 minutes - that 2 minutes is from the Wikipedia quote. Mine takes about 1 minute.
Had another listen this morning, after being off for about 7 hours. It seems to me that the "edge" has been taken off the sound - less high frequency energy in the sound - less metallic.

[whitels1ss]

Micks: just noticed your comment re 2 minutes being too long.
I never said it took 2 minutes - that 2 minutes is from the Wikipedia quote.

Mine takes about 1 minute.

Had another listen this morning, after being off for about 7 hours.
It seems to me that the "edge" has been taken off the sound -
less high frequency energy in the sound -
less metallic.


Brand new lifters should not be making any strange noises for any length of time.

[skip100]

Brand new lifters should not be making any strange noises for any length of time.
Ok, but I'm not skilled enough to know which noises are "strange", and which noises are normal. ;^)
Here's a recording of how it sounds AFTER the lifters were replaced (Note: I've amplified this one, so ignore the fact that it will sound louder than the first recording):
https://soundcloud.com/sullivang/not-music-ls3-cold-start-after-lifters-replaced

Opinions? I think it sounds quieter than before, but I don't know whether it's 100% normal.

[whitels1ss]

Hard to tell from the clip but that sounds like it does have a little bit of lifter rattle at first start up.

The sound certainly changes & gets nicer as time goes on during the clip.

[Micks]

Micks: just noticed your comment re 2 minutes being too long. I never said it took 2 minutes - that 2 minutes is from the Wikipedia quote. Mine takes about 1 minute.
Had another listen this morning, after being off for about 7 hours. It seems to me that the "edge" has been taken off the sound - less high frequency energy in the sound - less metallic.

Ok best consult your repairer, no point talking about this until it's pulled down & properly assessed.

[skip100]

I think I'll wait for an opportunity to leave it off for a really long time (at least 12 hours), verify that I still notice the improvement, and if so, just forget about it. Lifter noise when cold seems to be a bit of a grey area. Even if there was nothing wrong at all, as I say, Oztrack advise a lifter replacement every 100,000K anyway, so it's good that I've done this preventative maintenance. For my next hire car, I think I'll get a Lexus. :D Thanks everyone for your help!

[whitels1ss]

I think I'll wait for an opportunity to leave it off for a really long time (at least 12 hours),
verify that I still notice the improvement, and if so, just forget about it. Lifter noise when cold seems to be a bit of a grey area.


Even if there was nothing wrong at all, as I say, Oztrack advise a lifter replacement every 100,000K anyway,

so it's good that I've done this preventative maintenance.

I have never heard of anyone replacing standard lifters on a standard engine every 100,000kms

or ever seen it as a scheduled maintenance in a service book on any vehicle. :shock:

[skip100]

Whitels1ss: I don't know whether the author of that article had standard cars in mind, but from my experience in the hire car industry, I think the advice is DEFINITELY relevant - I think every Caprice owner is aware that the lifters fail prematurely. I mentioned that other driver who's lifter failure was so severe it required the whole engine to be replaced at just 132,000km! My previous V8 (L98) had a lifter fail at 175,000 - again - the roller came loose, and did actually damage the camshaft. It's common knowledge in our industry. I thought by now they'd have rectified the problem - I was wrong!

[whitels1ss]

I have been in the motor trade for many years,

Yes, modified cars with aftermarket cams & heavy valve springs etc do require more service replacement of valve train components.


Have personally seen a standard LS1 with 475,000kms & never opened, still running strong.

One member on the forum has posted stories about his with over 500,00kms.

There are plenty running around with over 250,000kms with all original lifters in them.



I know some things can fail early but that's not normal it's a fault.

[skip100]

Of course they are faults - I know that. I'm saying that lifter failure in the HC industry, with the LS V8s, is common. We all talk amongst ourselves about car problems, and I assure you it's common. That's why I think Oztrack's advice makes sense, even if it was more meant for performance cars.
Just btw, wasn't the LS1 a high performance variant, used in HSVs etc? Was it built stronger than, say, the L98?

[whitels1ss]

The LS1 was just the 5.7 LS engine that first came out in 1999 in the VT series II & ran through to the VZ. (Both Holden & HSV)

It also was used in Statesman / Caprice of the same era. (Thousands sold)

They sold many Holdens & HSV's with them until they upsized to the 6.0 litre towards the end of the VZ series.

[skip100]

Ah, ok. Well, you're going back a very long time. I'm referring to the 6L engines - I have no knowledge of the reliability of the 5.7L engines in the HC industry.

[whitels1ss]

The member with the 500,000km LS1 from memory is in the hire car business & I think he is in Melbourne
but I could be mistaken on that?
He had a thread about his car but I can't locate it or remember his username at the moment. :doh:

If anyone else can link his thread it will be greatly appreciated. :cheers:

[skip100]

Just asked two other HC drivers about their engine rebuilds:
One had lifters and cam done at 138,000,the other lifters (at least - not sure about cam) at 118,000. (but his was warranty). This was a few years ago, so L98 or the AFM variant etc.

[whitels1ss]

The member with the 500,000km LS1 from memory is in the hire car business & I think he is in Melbourne
but I could be mistaken on that?
He had a thread about his car but I can't locate it or remember his username at the moment. :doh:


I found it!

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?30401-Half-a-million-KMS-at-long-last

Also read post#23 there is another one that had done 630,000kms & this was 13 years ago....

EDIT... The member's car I was talking about with 500,000kms was sold at 612,000kms a few years later...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?133661-LimoLS1-FOR-SALE!-WH-CAPRICE-CHEAP

(In the post on the classifieds advert it said "the car ran a 14.6 @ 97mph with 525,000kms on the clock" at Calder Park.

IMHO that's a great result. :goodjob:

[skip100]

One of the aforementioned drivers goes on to say:


I’ve rebuilt 6 Caprices. (1 Twice). All V8. Some just over 100,000. So out of warranty. But guys who got warranty, were without there cars for about 6 weeks. The fault was poor design of the oil pumps. Too small. When replaced with a bigger and better pump, no problem.

[whitels1ss]

Yeah, they did have some problems with some early LS1's (most were piston slap issues)
plenty of early (mainly 1999 & 2000) models had new engines fitted under warranty. :yup:

The later models were much better.

[skip100]

The later models might be better, but they are still RUBBISH, at least in the HC industry. There is absolutely no doubt about it.

[skip100]

Having just re-read that Oztrack article, it is actually very clear that it does apply to stock cars. E.g:


Statistically the most common problem that presents itself even to fairly new engines that are unmodified and even more so in older engines that are modified is hydraulic lifter failure.

[macca_779]

Changing a cam does not automatically mean you’re going to render lifters unserviceable. The fact that many engine builders have no idea when assembling these engines is a far larger factor. Valve spring selection and setup as well as pushrod selection can often lead to premature lifter wear and noisy valvetrains.

[BLACKVE]

I have never heard of anyone replacing standard lifters on a standard engine every 100,000kms

or ever seen it as a scheduled maintenance in a service book on any vehicle. :shock:

There's a GM service note about this some where, not a recall but a service advise thingy. Only 6L gen IV engines

[BLACKVE]

I have never heard of anyone replacing standard lifters on a standard engine every 100,000kms

or ever seen it as a scheduled maintenance in a service book on any vehicle. :shock:

http://m.australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=1142

Found it, this applies to vf but also AFM ves

[skip100]

Thanks for that link Blackve.

Just a couple more tidbits of info:
That other LS3 driver I mentioned who lost his engine listened to my recording, and said that his sounded like that all the time - even when warm. So, in fairness, it's not fair to put ALL the blame on the engine for blowing up, because the problem wasn't addressed immediately.

Had another chat with my repairer. They said they agree with that Oztrack article - re replacing them every 100,000. They also agreed that it doesn't matter what lifter you use - they all fail, however they've found that the LS7 lifters seem to be the most reliable.

[Micks]

They also agreed that it doesn't matter what lifter you use - they all fail

Don't agree with this, the 6L & 6.2L engines, very few failures on stock engines.

[whitels1ss]

http://m.australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=1142

Found it, this applies to vf but also AFM ves

Thanks BLACKVE

Sounds like some of the VF's must have had some bad or faulty lifters which failed early fitted in them.

Pity that if Holden was made aware they did not do a recall & replace the bad parts. :cheers:

[whitels1ss]

Don't agree with this, the 6L & 6.2L engines, very few failures on stock engines.

You urgently need to do a cam swap on your new ute Mick! :idea:

[Micks]

You urgently need to do a cam swap on your new ute Mick! :idea:

Thinking of selling it before I do Ed :lol:

[Micks]

Thanks BLACKVE

Sounds like some of the VF's must have had some bad or faulty lifters which failed early fitted in them.

Pity that if Holden was made aware they did not do a recall & replace the bad parts. :cheers:

Only recall on the VF to do with valve train problem in the LS3 were a batch of faulty rockers that affected some builds in My17.

[whitels1ss]

Thinking of selling it before I do Ed :lol:

No Mick, don't sell it, you would regret it. :nono:

[skip100]

Don't agree with this, the 6L & 6.2L engines, very few failures on stock engines.

Again - in the HC industry, I completely disagree with you - a very high percentage of us have had lifter failures. I've just asked yet another mechanic - he's just a plain simple mechanic who does a lot of limos - he strongly agees that lifter failures are common with the 6L engines.
Again - the advice to change lifters seems to make overwhelming sense to me.

[Micks]

No Mick, don't sell it, you would regret it. :nono:

My Daughter said that too!

[motomk]

The member with the 500,000km LS1 from memory is in the hire car business & I think he is in Melbourne
but I could be mistaken on that?
He had a thread about his car but I can't locate it or remember his username at the moment. :doh:

If anyone else can link his thread it will be greatly appreciated. :cheers:

www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?133661
www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?79661
www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?123253

Helps if I go to page 2 and find that it is already found!

[BLACKVE]

Again - in the HC industry, I completely disagree with you - a very high percentage of us have had lifter failures. I've just asked yet another mechanic - he's just a plain simple mechanic who does a lot of limos - he strongly agees that lifter failures are common with the 6L engines.
Again - the advice to change lifters seems to make overwhelming sense to me.

Lifter failures in the gen 4 have been around for years some low kms(rare)and now with best getting up around the 200k mark more common. Holden don't care. Seems no common link few well serviced and still had issue. Slot complaining about last ls3s being noisy but my Jan 16 build is quite as a mouse only 6500km though. Uncles ls1 wh had 310000kms sounds like a tractor but still going strong(little oil burn)

[Micks]

Lifter failures in the gen 4 have been around for years some low kms(rare)and now with best getting up around the 200k mark more common. Holden don't care. Seems no common link few well serviced and still had issue. Slot complaining about last ls3s being noisy but my Jan 16 build is quite as a mouse only 6500km though. Uncles ls1 wh had 310000kms sounds like a tractor but still going strong(little oil burn)

No such thing as a lifter failure at 200K at that mileage there fukked & due to be changed anyhow!

[skip100]

I contacted yet another mechanic - this one also does a lot of limos, and is very well respected within our community. (and he's an ex Holden mechanic).
He said that lifters are actually failing more often with the more recent generations, HOWEVER, he thinks it's due to a combination of the amount of idling we do (we do a CRAP LOAD of idling), and the 6-speed transmission - the 6-speed reduces the rpm, and he thinks that's actually worse for the lifters - said that low rpm sort of causes the lifters to rattle around a bit. He said that freeway driving is actually bad for the lifters, because it's almost the same as idling. (I always thought that freeway driving was good for the engine - very interesting indeed!)

He would never replace the lifters without also replacing the cam.

He doesn't really think its worthwile me fitting a high volume oil pump at my current K's (115,000), but he would consider it with more K's, if he were doing lifters & cams.


No such thing as a lifter failure at 200K at that mileage there fukked & due to be changed anyhow!

Well in that case perhaps the HC community has an unrealistic expectation of engine longevity, and it's not as rubbish as we think. If you're right, then that seems to lend credence to the advice to proactively change lifters (and cam?) every 100,000.

[skip100]

Oh - one more thing - he said some amount of rattle when cold is normal - "you'll never get rid of it completely"

[Micks]

Oh - one more thing - he said some amount of rattle when cold is normal - "you'll never get rid of it completely"

None of mine "rattle" & is hardly normal :lol:
Had two 6L's so far one cammed, one L76 stock & zero issues. Owned my LS3 for almost 3yrs new also zero issues. I do change the oil & filters every 5K with oem filters & Penrite 10/60 full synth.
If your happy with the advice your mechanics have given go with it buddy ;)

[skip100]

Thanks Micks. Can you notice any rattle in either of my recordings?

[Micks]

Thanks Micks. Can you notice any rattle in either of my recordings?

Haven't really listened to them tbh, best get it properly diagnosed as most of the fellas you've been to have half a clue.
Wouldn't have faith in ex stealership employees too!

[BLACKVE]

None of mine "rattle" & is hardly normal :lol:
Had two 6L's so far one cammed, one L76 stock & zero issues. Owned my LS3 for almost 3yrs new also zero issues. I do change the oil & filters every 5K with oem filters & Penrite 10/60 full synth.
If your happy with the advice your mechanics have given go with it buddy ;)
We had one of the first AFM 6l l76 in Ve ss and was a bit ticky, hated anything over 5w30. Never heard a ticky l98 unless was the dreaded lifter noise. Have heard a few ls3,s of late that tick so maybe a bad batch

[Micks]

We had one of the first AFM 6l l76 in Ve ss and was a bit ticky, hated anything over 5w30. Never heard a ticky l98 unless was the dreaded lifter noise. Have heard a few ls3,s of late that tick so maybe a bad batch

My old VE Cal Vee My10 if it wasn't used for a few days would be a lil noisy for 30 seconds tops! I should have kept that vehicle cause at times I reckon it went a bit harder than my new LS3 both stock. Though the LS3 just :love: to rev!! :yup:

[white lie]

LS3 and LS7 lifters are the same are they not?

[skip100]

LS3 and LS7 lifters are the same are they not?

They should be, but as I said earlier, my LS3 had the old lifter type. Additionally, one performance shop I have been talking to off line said that EVERY LS3 they had encountered was fitted with the old lifters (or at least, not the LS7 lifter), and they thought that was normal. This implies that a very large batch of LS3s have been fitted with the wrong lifter, IMHO.

[skip100]

My previous post has been deleted by the moderator, because it linked to another car forum. (apologies)
The post I linked to contained a comment stating that the LS7 lifter has been used in all (non-AFM) LS engines since about 2006.
This seems to tally with this table, which states that the LS7 was introduced in 2006, and the LS3 two years later, in 2008:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_based_GM_small-block_engine#Engine_table

[skip100]

Is the "old" lifter the LS1 lifter? If so, I'm REALLY confused now. I found a post (which I will dutifully not link to) which states that the cup height is different between the LS1 & LS7 lifters, which in turn means the pushrod length will be different! I'm sure my pushrods weren't altered in length when they fitted LS7 lifters, right?

I'm beginning to wonder whether the LS7 lifter itself has been revised, and my LS3 did have an older type of LS7 lifter?????

[skip100]

Found a debate about whether the roller to cup length is the same or not, with no clear conclusion, but it would make a lot sense if they are the same.

[Micks]

LS7 lifters are 50thou lower on the cup than the previous LS style lifters. But this has little or nothing to do with your problem :doh:

[VLSteve]

The Series 1 VF HSV's with LS3's didn't have any dramas with lifters did they?

[skip100]

They said my engine did not have LS1 lifters - as far as I can tell, it just had an older version of LS7 lifter. (although I'm confused as to why they referred to the new lifters as "LS7 lifters" - this implies that my old ones were NOT "LS7 lifters". It's all rather murky.

[skip100]

ANOTHER hire car driver has just lost his engine (LS3) at a mere 77,000km. At least, the dealer said it needs a new engine - I suppose this doesn't necessarily mean it's not repairable, but they clearly think it's cheaper just to replace it. He hasn't been told exactly what's wrong with it yet.

[BLACKVE]

ANOTHER hire car driver has just lost his engine (LS3) at a mere 77,000km. At least, the dealer said it needs a new engine - I suppose this doesn't necessarily mean it's not repairable, but they clearly think it's cheaper just to replace it. He hasn't been told exactly what's wrong with it yet.

Yuk hate hearing such low kms, if motor is being replaced could be lifter bore damage. Maybe these lifters hate idling for long times

[skip100]

This isn't related to the lifters, but we were talking about general unreliability - now my transmission (I think) has packed it in, at only 122,000. Intermittently has no drive at all when in D - it's like it's in neutral. Man oh man. Towed to dealer.

[Micks]

Time to trade it perhaps?

[skip100]

Not giving up yet. Btw, I'm in an A8 (short wb) at the moment - it *is* a bit quieter and smoother, but despite the fact that it's about the same length, has a pathetic boot, and less leg room. Makes me really appreciate how wonderful the Caprice is.

[skip100]

15,000km and 3 months later, the startup noise is loud enough again for me to want to take it back to the workshop.

[skip100]

They reckon it's piston slap this time, or *perhaps* a gudgeon pin. They advise just to leave it, but not to rev it when cold.