Any reason NOT to get an LSD?

[Inter State Man]

I am going shopping for a 3.45 diff for the back of my Stato
I expect I may be asked whether I want an LSD or not

Any reason not to?
Its not like I'm breaking traction everytime I go around a corner
but I do do quite a few miles on the gravel, and I can imagine it might be useful there

and, does - or not - an LSD not use the "traction control" function
or would I need to disable that?

[Micks]

Agree single spinning diffs in V8's are downright dangerous! Swap it out asap. At the time our new Calais V lasted four weeks with the original diff & swapped it out with a 3.27 shot peened LSD totally transformed the vehicle! Do it you'll never look back :yup:

[Wonky]

The only reason not to go LSD is if you can afford and justify use of something like a Tru Trac. I never drive with traction control off due to a combination of the power of the car and my disabilities. :)

PS Do not buy a new diff from Holden or it will cost you an arm and a leg!!!

[Inter State Man]

I am waiting for my recommended guy (Tony at Global Automatics here in Perth) to ring me back

from ebay (in the meantime) I am seeing 3000-4000 for factory new units
2000 for reconditioned units
and 500 for unreconditioned used units

I want some assurance that the unit is OK, but I am not prepared to send 1000s on this

what would you guys go shopping for?

[Micks]

I am waiting for my recommended guy (Tony at Global Automatics here in Perth) to ring me back

from ebay (in the meantime) I am seeing 3000-4000 for factory new units
2000 for reconditioned units
and 500 for unreconditioned used units

I want some assurance that the unit is OK, but I am not prepared to send 1000s on this

what would you guys go shopping for?

Buy a s/h one & have it rebuit by a good repairer like Diff Techics.

[Inter State Man]

Tony the guy say 1800-2000 for a rebuilt unit warranted, fitted
he won't fit second hand units
I'll check the eastern states guys in case the freight is more than worth it

and keep my eye out for a good second hand unit
might end up putting this project component on the back burner until the right unit turns up
[might do the SS brake upgrade first and then the diff]

the new tyres (Michelin Pilot Sport 4) and 17" rims are being fitted on Monday

[Inter State Man]

looks like new Eaton Truetracs are around the 800 mark (ebay)

plus what it would cost to fit in

I get the "no wearable parts" thing - are they really much better than the normal clutched LSDs?

[Inter State Man]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VZ-HSV-CLUBSPORT-GTS-DIFF-M80-GENUINE-NEW-3-91-3-73-3-46-LSD/283281698848?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D473eee 31ad3f4374a3abab73437dbaeb%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D4 %26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D321267733650%26itm%3D28328169884 8&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598


or something like this, so I can keep the original diff intact in case I ever want to fit it back in/use the new diff in another car, or sell it separately?

looks like a true trac is not a more expensive option than a clutch/cone LSD

[SASLS1]

After upgrading from my std OEM LSD 3.46 ( useless single spinning rubbish... ) to a Truetrac with new 3.91 gears, I've never looked back.

Done over 100000 Kms since I installed it, has never single spinned once, ever on me. Just Traction it's awesome...

It's my daily driver 6.0L L76 T56.

I wouldn't waste my time on a std LSD every again IMO.

I've serviced it myself, just changed oil at 1000kms per diff builder instructions.

I've also changed the diff oil at 50000kms and 100000kms, from my OCD, its super easy.

No LSD cones to wear out or slip when its hot. Win Win...

No maintenance required...


I just bought a complete rebuilt diff assembly ( brand new Truetrac, 3.91 gears, bearings and seals) in a secondhand case with second hand stub axles.

From memory it was $1850 changeover or $2200 outright with no changeover.

I also kept my original OEM 3.46 LSD, and just bought the rebuilt unit outright, and removed & installed it myself.

The Tractrac does have more backlash than the std OEM LSD, but under load makes no noise what so ever.

I'm aware of it, and can totally avoid it 99% of the time.

[VLSteve]

After upgrading from my std OEM LSD 3.46 ( useless single spinning rubbish... ) to a Truetrac with new 3.91 gears, I've never looked back.

Done over 100000 Kms since I installed it, has never single spinned once, ever on me. Just Traction it's awesome...

It's my daily driver 6.0L L76 T56.

I wouldn't waste my time on a std LSD every again IMO.

I've serviced it myself, just changed oil at 1000kms per diff builder instructions.

I've also changed the diff oil at 50000kms and 100000kms, from my OCD, its super easy.

No LSD cones to wear out or slip when its hot. Win Win...

No maintenance required...


I just bought a complete rebuilt diff assembly ( brand new Truetrac, 3.91 gears, bearings and seals) in a secondhand case with second hand stub axles.

From memory it was $1850 changeover or $2200 outright with no changeover.

I also kept my original OEM 3.46 LSD, and just bought the rebuilt unit outright, and removed & installed it myself.

The Tractrac does have more backlash than the std OEM LSD, but under load makes no noise what so ever.

I'm aware of it, and can totally avoid it 99% of the time.What oil you end up using anyways?

[SASLS1]

What oil you end up using anyways?

Diff Builder recommended to use the following Mineral oil only, I have used this exclusively to date, zero issues.


https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/img/product_images/web/GO851400025.png

[VLSteve]

Diff Builder recommended to use the following Mineral oil only, I have used this exclusively to date, zero issues.


https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/img/product_images/web/GO851400025.pngCheers mate,
Had a new trutrac and gears installed in my VZ not long ago, wasn't really given any oil recommendations

[Inter State Man]

I've bought the Stato up to Perth, it goes in to WA Performance for its 240000 service tomorrow (haven't put a drop of oil in it since it was last serviced) Wheels are at Bob Janes ready for their Pilot 4s. I need to talk to WAP about this diff conundrum.

The cheapest I've been quoted for a fully rebuilt normal 3.46 LSD is 1800 . I reckon I could get an Eaton TT made up and sent from over east for little more that that. I paid 5200 for this car - discretionary spending is hard to justify.

I'm sure i'd be just as happy with a [good] s/h diff out of a clubsport or whatever for 500. Ideally would be from a known car. Perhaps a customer of WAP whose is down-gearing. And perhaps I should just ask them to keep me in mind, and wait until one pops up.

Would someone please give me pointers on 1 how quickly do those cones and clutches (and bearings and seals) wear out, under reasonable operating circumstances, and 2 can s/h units be bench tested to ascertain their general condition ?

[BLACKVE]

I've bought the Stato up to Perth, it goes in to WA Performance for its 240000 service tomorrow (haven't put a drop of oil in it since it was last serviced) Wheels are at Bob Janes ready for their Pilot 4s. I need to talk to WAP about this diff conundrum.

The cheapest I've been quoted for a fully rebuilt normal 3.46 LSD is 1800 . I reckon I could get an Eaton TT made up and sent from over east for little more that that. I paid 5200 for this car - discretionary spending is hard to justify.

I'm sure i'd be just as happy with a [good] s/h diff out of a clubsport or whatever for 500. Ideally would be from a known car. Perhaps a customer of WAP whose is down-gearing. And perhaps I should just ask them to keep me in mind, and wait until one pops up.

Would someone please give me pointers on 1 how quickly do those cones and clutches (and bearings and seals) wear out, under reasonable operating circumstances, and 2 can s/h units be bench tested to ascertain their general condition ?
For your duties a std 2nd hand would be fine, as you state keep in the loop for a good one. I got a 3.9 hydratrac for $500 2nd hand and was great but most 2 d hand lsds are average. If current diff OK keep driving and wait for a bargain(crashed car)

[whitels1ss]

For your duties a std 2nd hand would be fine, as you state keep in the loop for a good one. I got a 3.9 hydratrac for $500 2nd hand and was great but most 2 d hand lsds are average. If current diff OK keep driving and wait for a bargain(crashed car)

Yes, unless you are planning on modifying your car for serious performance or race duties a decent used LSD will work fine for you? (Assumed from reading your recent posts.)

Another idea might be to talk to local Commodore wreckers about supplying & fitting a good used diff with warranty?

Perhaps even a local member of the forum might even have a good used diff that they have upgraded? :cheers:

[Inter State Man]

Thanks fellas

[Inter State Man]

Mitch at WAP says untested ones can easily be great and rebuilt ones can easily be crap - pretty much luck of the draw. For my purposes, he agrees I should just wait until a known s/h unit pops up - he has promised to keep an eye out for me

[Wonky]

https://www.holmart.com.au/holden-commodore-hsv-ve-vf-v8-3.45-lsd-diff-assemb

$1995 for brand new 3.45 LSD! :goodjob:

[whitels1ss]

https://www.holmart.com.au/holden-commodore-hsv-ve-vf-v8-3.45-lsd-diff-assemb

$1995 for brand new 3.45 LSD! :goodjob:

That won't fit his WK Statesman Gary, it's a 3.45 to suit the VE or VF models.

He needs a 3.46 to suit VT through (LS1) VZ.

[Wonky]

That won't fit his WK Statesman Gary, it's a 3.45 to suit the VE or VF models.

He needs a 3.46 to suit VT through (LS1) VZ.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

[keith reed]

Tony the guy say 1800-2000 for a rebuilt unit warranted, fitted
he won't fit second hand units
I'll check the eastern states guys in case the freight is more than worth it

and keep my eye out for a good second hand unit
might end up putting this project component on the back burner until the right unit turns up
[might do the SS brake upgrade first and then the diff]

the new tyres (Michelin Pilot Sport 4) and 17" rims are being fitted on Monday

I think going for a rebuilt and warranted unit is your best bet. At least you know what you've got. Imagine being miles from nowhere and your so called cheap good second hand diff
lets go then cheap stops being cheap.

[Inter State Man]

do they 'let go' or do the clutches just wear out so it slips like an open diff ?

I still have little understanding of the extent to which diffs can be bench tested, or checked

[whitels1ss]

do they 'let go' or do the clutches just wear out so it slips like an open diff ?

I still have little understanding of the extent to which diffs can be bench tested, or checked

It might start single spinning if the LSD wears out but that's about the worse problem someone who drives the car like you will have.

You could have some bearing or meshing noises from a used diff but unless you ignore absolute horrible really bad noises it won't break leaving you on the side of the road.

Not hard or expensive to overhaul / setup with new bearings.

Second hand should work fine for you mate.

A very good mate of mine has a WH Caprice, one of the first mods he did was a used 3.46 diff 5 + years ago
He has done heaps more mods on the car since (including stroked engine & supercharger) & it's still going fine.

They are not that weak.

[Inter State Man]

Anyways …., the car will go back into the shed down in Bridgetown this weekend. It'll probably only get another couple thousand kays max on it before the next big trip east in Sept/Oct 19

240K service went well, nothing out of left field. Replaced fuel filter following 5000 kms on the new pump, new air filter, oil and filter change. Everything else is fine. As I keep bragging, the car did not use any oil between the last service and this one

tyres are being fitted as we speak (I saw them on the rims at the tire shop, they look great - almost the same, will probably fool the missus)

will post pictures (and a report on the missus reaction) tomorrow

I will take my time on the diff thing and the brake upgrade thing now that the service is done. I thought I might knock one or the other off the list at the same time I bought the car up for its tires and service


but, as God apparently wills, those things can wait - will keep you posted

[Inter State Man]

Come up good-ish. the two I didn't refinish (on the other side) are just a tad yellower, but don't look nearly as clean as these two. The missus hasn't picked the different size. The car steers heaps better (as much the quality of the tyre as its profile, I guess) and it is probably more comfortable on account of being less boatlike and more controlled. A definite improvement

https://i.ibb.co/YpWPxyg/shinyf34.jpg (https://ibb.co/m6Bb3Xp)

[Inter State Man]

soft focus (sun is going down)
https://i.ibb.co/mSFgV62/rear34.jpg (https://ibb.co/fQGLz4y)

[CeeVee8]

Assuming that your car is an auto, I wouldn't waste your time and money putting a 3.46 and suggest a 3.73 would be a better option, just something else to think about.

[whitels1ss]

Come up good-ish. the two I didn't refinish (on the other side) are just a tad yellower, but don't look nearly as clean as these two. The missus hasn't picked the different size. The car steers heaps better (as much the quality of the tyre as its profile, I guess) and it is probably more comfortable on account of being less boatlike and more controlled. A definite improvement

https://i.ibb.co/YpWPxyg/shinyf34.jpg (https://ibb.co/m6Bb3Xp)

Looks classy! :goodjob:

[Inter State Man]

Thank you Sir - I'm going for the standard basic Caprice look

[whitels1ss]

Thank you Sir - I'm going for the standard basic Caprice look

Caprice grille on the shopping list yet?

[Inter State Man]

Have thought about that, would look nice. On the other hand the Stato grille is understated, which I like. I will not be lowering the car or changing the steering to Caprice specs

[Inter State Man]

Then there is the Daewoo export grille (as if I haven't got something better to spend $500 on) which I think would look good too

[Inter State Man]

As for the 3.7 drive - and to get back on topic - I'd like to stand a good chance of maintaining economy on the wide open road. With a 3.46, I hope at 2000 we'll be more economical than at the 1800 the 3.08 puts us on at 100 or so which is where we spend most of our time. As well, we don't get to boogie [our little weeny dirty boogie] until we get to 130, I'd rather that be 120.

All undenominated guestimates +/- 5 per cent

[VXSS346]

I've done the 3.46 mod on my vx ss auto. Great mod if you want better acceleration and I'm very happy with the improvement, but from my experience, if you want hwy economy, keep the 3.07's. Stop start economy improves slightly but hwy economy is worse.

[Inter State Man]

Thanks VX. That's the first time I've heard a definitive 'no' based on experience to that economy claim

[whitels1ss]

Thanks VX. That's the first time I've heard a definitive 'no' based on experience to that economy claim

Between myself & my son, we have done the 3.46 change over on 3 cars over the years.
(We also have one with 4.11's & another with 3.91's but that's a slightly different story.)

With the 3.46 the economy improved around town general running around
& any loss on the highway at 100kmh is not noticeable if you drive sensibly at around the speed limits.

[whitels1ss]

Couple of threads for your reading...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?47499-The-Diff-Gears-Review-thread-(with-Speed-and-Revs-calculations)-MkII

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?158675-3-73-or-3-9-gears&highlight=sid447+diff+gears

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?49533-Txmsn-amp-Diff-Gearing-A4

:cheers:

[Inter State Man]

great stuff, thanks

[whitels1ss]

Done anything with the diff yet mate? :cheers:

[Inter State Man]

Not yet. Mick at WA Performance said he'd look out for a good unit for me, but I think he might have forgotten me. I must be the only customer of his with a totally bog standard car, so I don't blame him. I need to take it up to him for its six monthly check up soon, so I'll give him a months notice and ask him again

Its been sitting in the garage down south since I got back last October except for a 100km 100km/hr run once a month. All Ive done with it since it fit new 17" Pilot 4s (which has made a hell of an improvement to handling and road holding) I don't think the band will do its annual run to the eastern states this year, so I might take the missus to Kalgoorlie and the goldfields, or maybe up the mid-west for the wildflower season this spring

[Inter State Man]

https://i.ibb.co/kcZgW4m/image1.jpg (https://ibb.co/C0L5TbP)

[Inter State Man]

https://i.ibb.co/n8FYzBw/IMG-2644.jpg (https://ibb.co/R4qszNg)

[whitels1ss]

I still think the WK & WL are a great looking car! :cheers:

[Inter State Man]

I like the WH too (but don’t like the interiors). I believe the WK was the lightest and most aerodynamic of all Statesmans ever. Also stronger than the WHs

[Inter State Man]

The WH is the longest Statesman ever (by 4cms over the WK/WL - from memory, or was it 2?)

[Inter State Man]

just checked that -->

Length WH: 5237mm WK: 5193 (-4.4 cms)
Width WH: 2018 mm WK: 2046 (+2.8 cms)
Height WH: 1459 mm WK: 1444 (-1.5 cms)
Ground Clearance WH: 125mm WK:105mm (-2.0 cms)