What happened to my post count? [Formerly:"Problem"] [Archive]

IIV8II

25-01-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Mozz
Mine has gone from, hmm no idea what it was, all the way to, ahh couldn't be bothered to check.

Because my post count doesn't influence how I participate in this online community - maybe there's something in there for all of us :thumbsup:

well said.
It's a bit like 'locals only' at the beach...
(Although i did 'pull rank' on one bloke last week who had 20-something posts vs my 1000+. But he didn't have a sense of humour...)

VX SS

25-01-2004, 12:21 PM

Whats that saying

Quantity vs Quality

Fabio's CV8

25-01-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by VX SS
Quantity vs Quality

Correct!

Posts are now only counted in certain sections only.

More details later.

Mav

25-01-2004, 01:06 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but having post numbers gives structure.

I am more likely to take the advice of 3000 posts (Devil CV8) rather than say (no offence) markone2.

I know there are some post whores out there but surely it did not get that bad!

VX SS

25-01-2004, 01:06 PM

Some smart arse people are already posting general crap in the technical sections

Mav

25-01-2004, 01:10 PM

Thats another thing I was going to say, people are just going to flood the Tech. Section.

I read it all the time but only very rarely post becuase I am not exactly on the same level as some of those freaks. ('Freak' in a nice, know your stuff way)

It is very useful but now I fear for its life.

Ghosn

25-01-2004, 01:36 PM

VX SS

25-01-2004, 01:37 PM

Mav

25-01-2004, 01:43 PM

But how long did it take you to fiqure that out.

If a person just came onto here looking for one simple answer rather than a 'committed' relationship with the forum, how are they to know.

Ask them, 'Hey, can I trust you or are you talking junk.'

VX SS

25-01-2004, 01:57 PM

More fool them to come on an internet forum to make a decisions that affects a major investment on a casual basis.

XLR8 V8

25-01-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Mav
Correct me if I am wrong but having post numbers gives structure.

I am more likely to take the advice of 3000 posts (Devil CV8) rather than say (no offence) markone2.

I know there are some post whores out there but surely it did not get that bad!

The post numbers still do give structure.
The only posts that count now are ones made in the technical sections. This means that those with higher post counts are the ones who post in technical threads, rather than the person posting todays jokes in the General section. Therefore ppl can still rely on those with higher post counts to be contributors to the technical side of the forum, rather than just post whores. The ppl who have gone from 2000 posts down to, say, 17 ;) are the ones who obviously don't contribute much to the technical forums. Therefore highlighting the problem that this move has solved. We have had new members asking questions to ppl with 2000 posts, when in reality that person only achieved their 2000 posts through jokes and posts like "Cool", "Awesome" and "I agree".
Finally, any members who suddenly decide they will start posting "General" posts in the technical forums just to increase their post count will soon realise that a post count is no use to a banned member.

P.S. It's only a damn post count :rolleyes: Achieve respect from members by providing interesting/useful info rather that "my post count is higher than yours".

Bitza

25-01-2004, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by XLR8_V8
The post numbers still do give structure.
The only posts that count now are ones made in the technical sections. This means that those with higher post counts are the ones who post in technical threads, rather than the person posting todays jokes in the General section. Therefore ppl can still rely on those with higher post counts to be contributors to the technical side of the forum, rather than just post whores. The ppl who have gone from 2000 posts down to, say, 17 ;) are the ones who obviously don't contribute much to the technical forums. Therefore highlighting the problem that this move has solved. We have had new members asking questions to ppl with 2000 posts, when in reality that person only achieved their 2000 posts through jokes and posts like "Cool", "Awesome" and "I agree".
Finally, any members who suddenly decide they will start posting "General" posts in the technical forums just to increase their post count will soon realise that a post count is no use to a banned member.

P.S. It's only a damn post count :rolleyes: Achieve respect from members by providing interesting/useful info rather that "my post count is higher than yours".

I know its only a post count, but what's been overlooked by the Mods is that it does give you some amount of credibilitly when a newby does a profile check.
Using myself as an example under the new changes.
My post count was somewhere around 260, now down to 89.

A newby checks profile.
Bitza
Joined - 29-07-2002
Posts - 89 (0.16 posts per day)

That tends to give the opinion that I don't contribute much at all
and there maybe others whom feel the same.
Not all members of the forum are tech minded when it comes to cars, but those members might be big at helping in other sections of this forum.
Example - General Section
Post - Tyre Pressures
Post - VY Fuel Guage recalibration
Post - Fitting of HM TRI-Y'S
Post - GTO/Monaro question from Texas
These posts can/could be classified as Technical, but non-tech types have helped with these General posts.
I could go on further, but can see self being banned for sometime if one did so, If after this I not already on holidays.

Craig

XLR8 V8

25-01-2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Bitza
I know its only a post count, but what's been overlooked by the Mods is that it does give you some amount of credibilitly when a newby does a profile check.

Why would a newbie be doing a profile check on you? I would have thought they'd be more interested in either asking for the information they are after, or using the search function to find it... In both instances, any good input you or any other users may have, or have already posted, could be gained without concerns over your post count.
What we have done has merely sorted the wheat from the chaff.
If, for some strange reason they were more interested in you particularly and your valuable input to the forum (as opposed to non-technical posts in jokes etc) they could click on the "search for all posts by this user" in your profile and find out just how much of your input is valuable and how much is just general chatter.
As for the threads you specified .... why, if they could be considered technically useful questions, were they not posted in the technical forum in the first place?
I personally, and I'm sure I'm not alone, couldn't give a rats if someone who gives me an answer to my question has 1 post or 2000 to their name if the info is helpful. There are plenty of forums that have removed post counts entirely, and the usefulness of the forum did not crash down around them. Some of you guys are just WAAAY too focused on post counts.

Oh, and noone gets banned for asking us a question. People get banned for doing silly things and disobeying forum rules and guidelines.

Bitza

26-01-2004, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by XLR8_V8
Why would a newbie be doing a profile check on you? I would have thought they'd be more interested in either asking for the information they are after, or using the search function to find it... In both instances, any good input you or any other users may have, or have already posted, could be gained without concerns over your post count.

Would you of given the same reply if I used you as a example!! as finger was firmly pointed at me in your reply.
I used that as an example only, people do check profiles.
Theres been times I thought the Search Button was broken as some Newbies won't/don't search.
Those posts I mentioned in General were also examples too
and it was only my opinion as to thier possible classification looking at them from a former mechanics point of view.
I know the Mods can't check and classify where every post belongs, the same can be said for those whom post too.

There are plenty of forums that have removed post counts entirely, and the usefulness of the forum did not crash down around them. Some of you guys are just WAAAY too focused on post counts.

I wouldn't say I'm way too focused on the post count, but the count does help in how ya feel with contributing to the forum.
To date it appears that some forum members are cheesed off too, you can't blame them for feeling that way.
Thats my opinion again, other's may say different.

Suggestion

1 - Run a poll to get feedback on how everyone feel's regarding this.
or
2 - If other forums have removed post counts as you say, do the same here, problem solved and we're all even so to speak.
or
3 - Put the post counts back, minus the post counts in Jokes, Motorsports, classifieds, you know the subjects not directly forum related.

Eitherway we reach a happy medium.
I know I have no say in the day to day operation/running of this forum since I'm not a Mod and why not listen to those of us who are members of this great forum accasionally on the odd thing or two.

Craig.

V-Car

26-01-2004, 02:10 AM

Personally, id take the post count away all together. :thumbsup:
You dont have to read many posts to work out who to :bow: to, and who's :jester:
But, if you are going to leave some in, and take some out depending on where you post, then i reckon it should be the same for everyone, meaning mods should have their post count edited also. :stick: ;) :hide:

nthnbeachesguy

26-01-2004, 08:55 AM

Another little point for u guys to think about. Some of the info in the general section can be very worthwhile content, whilst not complketely tech related it is useful to those of us, probably all, with a high powered car.

What i am getting at is some of the legal issues that effect us, speeding, car confiscation (i have lots of first hand knowledge on this:bash: ) points accumulation, defence of alleged traffic offences etc that i think are worthy contributions and therefore warranting a post to be counted.

This type of information is going to be be more effective to a member than almost every other thread in here eg: if member loses licence or car what good is it knowing how to make it go faster???????????? Just my thoughts and something for consideration.

V82xist

26-01-2004, 09:07 AM

What if the "Posts: xxx" read " Technical Posts: xxx" and would it be possible to add below
"Posts: xxx"
"Joined: 25/12/02" only an example.
That way new people can see how long you have been a member and therefore help them make a judgement on the reliability of anyones post.
:cheers:

markone2

26-01-2004, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by V-Car
[
But, if you are going to leave some in, and take some out depending on where you post, then i reckon it should be the same for everyone, meaning mods should have their post count edited also. :stick: ;) :hide: [/B]

:werd: Yes I noticed the abnormability also...........

strife

26-01-2004, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by V-Car
Personally, id take the post count away all together. :thumbsup:
You dont have to read many posts to work out who to :bow: to, and who's :jester:
But, if you are going to leave some in, and take some out depending on where you post, then i reckon it should be the same for everyone, meaning mods should have their post count
edited also. :stick: ;) :hide:

As far as im aware they all did

strife

26-01-2004, 10:01 AM

yep you guys need to get your observation powers check up.

HRT8

19-02-2003 04:07 PM Posts: 1302
22-01-2004 10:46 AM Posts: 685

Strife

13-06-2003 08:30 AM Posts: 1632
23-01-2004 07:07 PM Posts: 1100

LYTNING

14-06-2003 10:56 PM Posts: 1171
25-01-2004 10:50 AM Posts: 572

Brute

22-06-2003 09:38 PM Posts: 1291
25-01-2004 11:57 PM Posts: 368

motomk

22-06-2003 09:43 PM Posts: 1626
20-01-2004 03:00 PM Posts: 751

Sidewindr

09-12-2002 11:16 AM Posts: 3094
24-01-2004 03:00 PM Posts: 1439

FDVTGEN3SS

12-06-2003 07:44 PM Posts: 6049
25-01-2004 11:59 AM Posts: 2388

Scud

26-01-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by strife
FDVTGEN3SS

12-06-2003 07:44 PM Posts: 6049
25-01-2004 11:59 AM Posts: 2388

Fabian you Post Whore!!!!

Originally posted by V-Car
Personally, id take the post count away all together.

I agree. Post counts mean little. I think having the joined date and a meaningful status would more that make up for post count.

V-Car

26-01-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by strife
yep you guys need to get your observation powers check up.

My mistake strife. appologies all round. :o

vh-holden

26-01-2004, 11:52 AM

i have found that on the street commodores vbulletin forum if you d a search on a members posts, you can see how much they post. that doesnt' count old posts that have been deleted though.

take for example Chris5ltr who is also on here. His post count at SC is 1699. but a search shows he has actually posted 2059 times.

The Warden

26-01-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by XLR8_V8

P.S. It's only a damn post count :rolleyes: Achieve respect from members by providing interesting/useful info rather that "my post count is higher than yours".

Kind of sums it up nicely:thumbsup:

One question from me: Refering to this thread, why are some members with less than 100 posts (for example: V-car, Ghosn, nthbeachesguy) classified as "pushie rider" when others with more than 100 posts (for example: VX SS, markone2, and my own personal self;) ) are classified as "pedestrian" Any reason? have the post counts for the various classifications remained the same as previous or have they been revised?

Thanks in anticipation.....

:cheers:
Gordie

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Mav
I could not really care either but what has happened!?

17 posts, jeeze......NO-ONE with 17 posts has respect!

Doesn't that tell you something ? :p

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Bitza
I know its only a post count, but what's been overlooked by the Mods is that it does give you some amount of credibilitly when a newby does a profile check.
Using myself as an example under the new changes.
My post count was somewhere around 260, now down to 89.

A newby checks profile.
Bitza
Joined - 29-07-2002
Posts - 89 (0.16 posts per day)

That tends to give the opinion that I don't contribute much at all
and there maybe others whom feel the same.
Not all members of the forum are tech minded when it comes to cars, but those members might be big at helping in other sections of this forum.
Example - General Section
Post - Tyre Pressures
Post - VY Fuel Guage recalibration
Post - Fitting of HM TRI-Y'S
Post - GTO/Monaro question from Texas
These posts can/could be classified as Technical, but non-tech types have helped with these General posts.
I could go on further, but can see self being banned for sometime if one did so, If after this I not already on holidays.

Craig

All of those threads should be in the Technical section .. this has been the issue where people do not post in the correct places, some post technical in non tech areas and others post garbage in the tech areas (the latter will recieve a ban no questions asked btw).

People who have 3000 posts from posting general crap or cruise/dinner "count me in"/"me too" etc. may contribute socially but not technically.

This change was made because a number of newbies had complained that they looked at the post count when asking advice and ended up getting some ill informed dribble from a 16yo with no clue... (for example)

IMPORTANT: YOU MUST PUT DECENT SUBJECTS IN YOUR POSTS...

This thread for example is CRAP .. "Problem" what kind of a subject is that, this is even more necessary in the tech sections as well as this help center as they do not get pruned.

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Bitza
Those posts I mentioned in General were also examples too
and it was only my opinion as to thier possible classification looking at them from a former mechanics point of view.
I know the Mods can't check and classify where every post belongs, the same can be said for those whom post too.

Bullshiet, it is the responsibility of every Forum member to make sure their posts go in the right place and conform to the forum rules and guidelines. It's alot better for 3000 users to take care with their posts than 15 moderators trying to control 3000 new posts a day...

Originally posted by Bitza
I wouldn't say I'm way too focused on the post count, but the count does help in how ya feel with contributing to the forum.
To date it appears that some forum members are cheesed off too, you can't blame them for feeling that way.
Thats my opinion again, other's may say different.

You should be happy within yourself that you contribute to the forum why would your self esteem be so low you would rely on a post count to give you the warm and fuzzies??

Originally posted by Bitza
Suggestion

1 - Run a poll to get feedback on how everyone feel's regarding this.
or
2 - If other forums have removed post counts as you say, do the same here, problem solved and we're all even so to speak.
or
3 - Put the post counts back, minus the post counts in Jokes, Motorsports, classifieds, you know the subjects not directly forum related.

1 - NO
2 - NO
3 - Hello .. it already is that way. Anything non-technical is really not forum related after all this is a technical resource.

Originally posted by Bitza
I know I have no say in the day to day operation/running of this forum since I'm not a Mod and why not listen to those of us who are members of this great forum accasionally on the odd thing or two.

We have listened hence the changes, for the better .. it's like when the forum colour scheme and logo's changed some liked it and some didn't .. everyone learned to live with it however..

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by V-Car
But, if you are going to leave some in, and take some out depending on where you post, then i reckon it should be the same for everyone, meaning mods should have their post count edited also. :stick: ;) :hide:

They have dropped as well .. it applies to everyone ..

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by nthnbeachesguy
Another little point for u guys to think about. Some of the info in the general section can be very worthwhile content, whilst not complketely tech related it is useful to those of us, probably all, with a high powered car.

What i am getting at is some of the legal issues that effect us, speeding, car confiscation (i have lots of first hand knowledge on this:bash: ) points accumulation, defence of alleged traffic offences etc that i think are worthy contributions and therefore warranting a post to be counted.

This type of information is going to be be more effective to a member than almost every other thread in here eg: if member loses licence or car what good is it knowing how to make it go faster???????????? Just my thoughts and something for consideration.

Wrong place to post it as the general section has any post over 90 days idle removed.

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by V82xist
What if the "Posts: xxx" read " Technical Posts: xxx" and would it be possible to add below
"Posts: xxx"
"Joined: 25/12/02" only an example.
That way new people can see how long you have been a member and therefore help them make a judgement on the reliability of anyones post.
:cheers:

Not that easy to do and I don't have the time for such a TRIVIAL thing as post counts. There is already a "Registered:" entry in your post header...

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by vh-holden
i have found that on the street commodores vbulletin forum if you d a search on a members posts, you can see how much they post. that doesnt' count old posts that have been deleted though.

take for example Chris5ltr who is also on here. His post count at SC is 1699. but a search shows he has actually posted 2059 times.

This isn't the SC Forum so what's your point ?:slap:

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by The Warden
Kind of sums it up nicely:thumbsup:

One question from me: Refering to this thread, why are some members with less than 100 posts (for example: V-car, Ghosn, nthbeachesguy) classified as "pushie rider" when others with more than 100 posts (for example: VX SS, markone2, and my own personal self;) ) are classified as "pedestrian" Any reason? have the post counts for the various classifications remained the same as previous or have they been revised?

Thanks in anticipation.....

:cheers:
Gordie

I think they have remained from the old post counts .. I am fixing that and reducing the cutoff's a little.

nthnbeachesguy

26-01-2004, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Sidewindr
Wrong place to post it as the general section has any post over 90 days idle removed.

yeah sidey i know this but as per ur other post about banning for posting in tech, where would questions such as the above be best put?????

strife

26-01-2004, 02:26 PM

looking into restructuring technical section

added a more general automotive technical

richiejs

26-01-2004, 02:33 PM

:limpy: :limpy: :limpy: :limpy: CARE FACTOR 0% I was unaware this forum was so " I have more counts than you so shut up" :shock: :werd: :nopity:

MIC33R

26-01-2004, 03:37 PM

Hehe, well I'd say I'm now down to 0 posts then (I think I had about 150 before). I don't think I've posted in the technical section much at all. I still feel I contribute to the board though, even though I don't own an LS1. Having just been around for a while, I've picked up a lot of info about LS1s and I do think I share it.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound like I'm having a whinge, but I've always thought of a post count as an indication of your contribution to a forum. I was also under the impression that contributing wasn't just sharing technical advice. The General section is why I come to ls1.com.au e.g. to hear about rumours on new models etc. I would only go to the technical section maybe once every 20 visits or so (but I am a very atypical member)!

I guess having a post count of <10 isn't too bad, though - I must have always just misinterpreted what it was supposed to mean. It isn't like you guys take an import driver seriously anyway:p.

Devil CV8

26-01-2004, 03:43 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: at all this whinging over post counts.. At the end of the day if a certain post count means that much to you, post whore over at other certain forums where post whoring seems to be acceptable. Here, its not.

A small concern I have, turning the non technical areas into a crapsville type arena now that posts aren't counted. Its a bit hard for a mod to ban you for post whoring if it doesn't contrinute to your post count. Mind you they can ban you for having a sense of humour:p (really guys, I thought it was funny)

I've tried to avoid post whoring but do contribute on virtually a daily basis. It might be an idea to just hide the post count alltogether...

MIC33R

26-01-2004, 03:46 PM

Yeah they hide the post count on your posts at Skylines Australia to prevent whoring. It seems to work well. If you really want to know how many posts you have, you just check it up in your profile.

As I said above, I've always just looked at the count to know who the regulars are and to give me a rough indication of how much they contribute to the community. That's all really, so it doesn't really affect too much if it is hidden.

V82xist

26-01-2004, 03:51 PM

Not that easy to do and I don't have the time for such a TRIVIAL thing as post counts. There is already a "Registered:" entry in your post header...

Sorry Sidewindr, consider me "kicked up the bum" and I will keep my mouth shut from now on. I wasn't having a go about the changes as I agree with it. I was just making a suggestion which in hind-sight was wrong.
:cheers:

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by nthnbeachesguy
yeah sidey i know this but as per ur other post about banning for posting in tech, where would questions such as the above be best put?????

Geez do you want your dinner cut up and fed to you as well?? surley anyone with 10% of a brain can figure out the difference between a technical post and a joke post ?? :confused:

We don't just ban users for genuine mistakes....

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Devil CV8
:lol: :lol: :lol: at all this whinging over post counts.. At the end of the day if a certain post count means that much to you, post whore over at other certain forums where post whoring seems to be acceptable. Here, its not.

A small concern I have, turning the non technical areas into a crapsville type arena now that posts aren't counted. Its a bit hard for a mod to ban you for post whoring if it doesn't contrinute to your post count. Mind you they can ban you for having a sense of humour:p (really guys, I thought it was funny)

I've tried to avoid post whoring but do contribute on virtually a daily basis. It might be an idea to just hide the post count alltogether...

Devil: One can still cop a ban for post whoring .. it wastes server space and bandwidth :teach:

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by V82xist
Sorry Sidewindr, consider me "kicked up the bum" and I will keep my mouth shut from now on. I wasn't having a go about the changes as I agree with it. I was just making a suggestion which in hind-sight was wrong.
:cheers:

Not a butt kicking my friend, I've just been in a bit of a grumpy mood of late :box:

Devil CV8

26-01-2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Sidewindr
Devil: One can still cop a ban for post whoring .. it wastes server space and bandwidth :teach:

Good to see.......:thumbsup:

JohnW

26-01-2004, 06:17 PM

Perhaps as a suggestion, the description i.e. "Pushie Rider" should be upgraded by one now as only technical posts count. It could be argued that a member with over 200 posts in technical now is hardly a "Learner"

If that has already been suggested and answered, please disregard this post (The thread is getting long and it’s hard to read every post)

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 06:34 PM

John: someone with only 200 posts would be considered a learner next to someone with over 1500 posts in the tech sections :) They could have been 200 questions ;)

ROGUE

26-01-2004, 06:35 PM

i can't believe this thread has gone this long... :lol:

it's a joke, really. some of you guys are whinging cause "his post count is bigger than mine..." :box:

i reckon we ditch the post count, and maybe the guys that DO have a lot of wisdom to pass on, ie the few that were mentioned before, get TECHNICAL ADVISOR as a title...
:teach:

Brendan

26-01-2004, 06:38 PM

Geez - 1100 to 300 posts - I must have posted more crap than I thought. Not that it matters.

Dane must have gone from 4500 to 3 with the amount of sh!t he posts.

Quickest Stk M6

26-01-2004, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Justice R8

Originally posted by Sidewindr
Not a butt kicking my friend, I've just been in a bit of a grumpy mood of late :box:

Somebody hasnt been getting their medicine lately!!

Good to see the post whore bullshiet being addressed. Last time I tried to address it and I think I got a 1 month ban and who was I pointing the finger at?

Well done boys!

BTW. A couple of quick question whist we are here

1.I locked my keys in my car. Does anybody know how to technically get into it?

2. I am trying to master the technical art of undoing a bra clasp 1 handed. Can anybody advise?

Are these general or Technical

from vx ss

Mav

Any body that frequents the forum or any body that comes here to seek advice after a period of time gets to see who to listen to and who not to listen to ( absolute drible)

As you can see nobody listens to me as I dont post dont frequent the shows and get togethers. But If you asked me who to listen too it is the same people who did it on LS1.COM

Strife, Howquick,SID447,Delco, CMS,v8ute, Phantom Meness and Tuna (when you can stop him post whoring and stirring)

These blokes will actually give you factual information and it is worth listening .

Some worthy names there

Any reason for not including Planb :D

Unlike me and many others on here Plan b actually

1.Talks the talk and walks the walk.
2. Does quite a lot of his spanner work
3. gets great results
4. doesnt have a workshop

Same for NZLS1 (darren) He seems to be getting some average numbers as well. Last time I checked it was one of the highest hp ls1's in aust NZ

Just a thought

Above post from Justice R8

strife

26-01-2004, 06:59 PM

seems to be a pretty much explained to the questions asked

the forum help list starts here

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/memberlist.php?s=

Sidewindr

26-01-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by MR350
i reckon we ditch the post count, and maybe the guys that DO have a lot of wisdom to pass on, ie the few that were mentioned before, get TECHNICAL ADVISOR as a title...
:teach:

There is a problem with that .. there are no designated Technical Advisors for a reason .. if someone takes the technical advice from a forum designated advisor then the forum accepts liability for that advice which we cannot do.