Mobile Phones and re-fuelling Dangers

[YIIR8]

The Shell Oil Company recently issued a warning after three incidents in which mobile phones ignited fumes during fueling operations.
In the first case, the phone was placed on the car's boot lid during fueling; it rang and the ensuing fire destroyed the car and the fuel pump.

In the second, an individual suffered severe burns to their face when fumes ignited as they answered a call while refueling their car.

And in the third, an individual suffered burns to the thigh and groin as fumes ignited when the phone, which was in their pocket, rang while they were fueling their car.

You should know that:
Mobile Phones can ignite fuel or fumes

Mobile phones that light up when switched on or when they ring release enough energy to provide a spark for ignition

Mobile phones should not be used in filling stations, or when fueling lawn mowers, boat! , Etc.

Mobile phones should not be used, or should be turned off, around other materials that generate flammable or explosive fumes or dust, (i.e. solvents, chemicals, gases, grain dust, etc.)

To sum it up, here are the: Four Rules for Safe Refueling

1) Turn off engine
2) Don't smoke
3) Don't use your mobile phone - leave it inside the vehicle or turn it off
4) Don't re-enter your vehicle during fueling

Bob Renkes of Petroleum Equipment Institute is working on a campaign to try and make people aware of fires as a result of"static electricity" at gas pumps. His company has researched 150 cases of these fires.

His results were very surprising:
1) Out of 150 cases, almost all of them were women.
2) Almost all cases involved the person getting back in their vehicle while the nozzle was still pumping fuel. When finished, they went back to pull the nozzle out and the fire started, as a result of static electricity.
3) Most had on rubber-soled shoes.
4) Most men never get back in their vehicle until completely finished. This is why they are seldom involved in these types of fires.
5) Don't ever use mobile phones when pumping gas
6) It is the vapors that come out of the gas that cause the fire, when connected with static charges.
7) There were 29 fires where the vehicle was re-entered and the nozzle was touched during refueling from a variety of makes and models. Some resulted in extensive damage to the vehicle, to the station, and to the customer.
8) Seventeen fires occurred before, during or immediately after the fuel cap was removed and before fueling began.

Mr. Renkes stresses to NEVER get back into your vehicle while filling it with gas.

If you absolutely HAVE to get in your vehicle while the fuel is pumping,
make sure you get out, close the door TOUCHING THE METAL, before you ever pull the nozzle out. This way the static from your body will be discharged before you ever remove the nozzle.

As I mentioned earlier, The Petroleum Equipment Institute, along with
several other companies now, are really trying to make the public aware
of this danger. You can find out more information by going to <<http://www.pei.org/>> . Once here, click in the center of the screen where it says "Stop Static".

I ask you to please send this information to ALL your family and friends, especially those who have kids in the car with them while pumping gas. If this were to happen to them, they may not be able to get the children out in time. Thanks for passing this along.

[HRT Stroker]

I witness spontaneous combustion of a gas tanker here in Adelaide a few years back now.
'
FRIGHTENING stuff!!!!

I always turn of my phone in a servo, I have seen the damage a gas explosion can do........

[mavss]

I always thought this was a porky pie and that the actual reason why we're told not to use the mobile while refuelling is because it can interfere with the fuel pump and make it give an incorrect (read lower) reading.

Not that I've been game enough to test that theory.

[markone2]

I always thought there was far more danger in a spark jumping across a faulty lead or battery terminal from a cars engine than from a ciggy or mobile phone.

[YIIR8]

I've always put me fuel cap under the bowser handle(after they removed the auto fill mechanisms off all the bowser handles) and gone and sat back in my car listening to CD's/radio to wait for it to fill.
I actually got chipped by a bird behind the counter the other night for doing this, she told me it was illegal do to overfilling, I told her they have auto cut offs when full, so how could it be !!! Company policy was the reply, but after reading the part about static electricity, I might just wait next to the bowser (cap still under handle but).

Although......I don't think you can generate static off leather !!!hmmmm

[LSX-438]

any links to news stories to corroborate these?

btw found this

http://www.amta.org.au/default.asp?Page=237

[XR6 Martin]

I always thought there was far more danger in a spark jumping across a faulty lead or battery terminal from a cars engine than from a ciggy or mobile phone.

But you dont refuel the car near the engine with the bonnet open do you?

[ssswindler]

I had recently discussed this issue with a bomb tech through my work and they assure me that this is total bullshit. He went on to say that if this was the case that it would be occuring every 5 minutes around the world in not only servos but kitchens, oil refineries, you name it.
I don't particulary want to find out the hard way though.

[LSX-438]

I always thought there was far more danger in a spark jumping across a faulty lead or battery terminal from a cars engine than from a ciggy or mobile phone.

Mobile phones and petrol stations
Warnings against mobile phone use at gas stations have circulated on the Internet since 1999, and occasionally been repeated in newspaper stories. Ringing mobiles could supposedly ignite gas fumes, leading to dangerous gas pump fires. However, considering that there is no documented case of this ever happening, there seems to be little cause for alarm. On the other hand, there have been hundreds of documented gas pump fires caused by static electricity. A common reason is motorists re-entering the vehicle while refuelling and unwittingly charging clothes against the car upholstery

btw taken from http://www.imobile.com.au/CoverStory/

[YIIR8]

any links to news stories to corroborate these?

btw found this

http://www.amta.org.au/default.asp?Page=237

Don't know about that story !!!

Here's something off a program called Chemalert, if anyone here works in an heavy industrial environment or gas production facilities where "intrinsically safe" equipment must be used, should know this program.

For Unleaded/Leaded Petrol

Flammability:
Highly flammable. Vapours may form explosive mixtures with air. May evolve toxic gases (carbon oxides, hydrocarbons) when heated to decomposition. Eliminate all ignition sources including cigarettes, open flames, spark producing switches/tools, heaters, naked lights, pilot lights, mobile phones etc. when handling. Earth containers if dispensing fluids.

Ventilation:
Do not inhale vapours. Use in well ventilated areas. In poorly ventilated areas, mechanical explosion proof extraction ventilation is recommended. Flammable/explosive vapours may accumulate in poorly ventilated areas. Vapours are heavier than air and may travel some distance to an ignition source and flash back.

MOBILE PHONES - FLAMMABILITY RISK: Mobile phones have the potential to ignite flammable vapours when refuelling at a service station. Although the risk is low, ignition of flammable vapours could occur from sparking when a switch or keypad is operated or during accidental or deliberate removal of batteries. SOLUTION: Switch off your phone before entering the service station. If you are expecting a call and the phone rings, stop dispensing petrol and move away (at least 4 metres) to answer the call.

[crYnOid]

This video is a good reason why static electricity + fuel vapour = very very bad

right click, save as (http://www.southcom.com.au/~spcampbe/gas.wmv) it is about 3.2meg.

[XR6 Martin]

I had recently discussed this issue with a bomb tech through my work and they assure me that this is total bullshit. He went on to say that if this was the case that it would be occuring every 5 minutes around the world in not only servos but kitchens, oil refineries, you name it.
I don't particulary want to find out the hard way though.

A 'genuine' bomb tech should know not to dismiss static electricity as total bullshit, its a very serious concern to someone who uses explosives. Which is why its rare to find someone who still uses electric detonated explosives, the risk is just too great. (and if you think im talking out my ass, ive done explosive training with the head of the AFP's bomb squad)

[LSX-438]

sounds like the phone risk is there but very low, more risk of static from your clothes by the sounds of things.

[plonkerchops]

Mobile phones and petrol stations
Warnings against mobile phone use at gas stations have circulated on the Internet since 1999, and occasionally been repeated in newspaper stories. Ringing mobiles could supposedly ignite gas fumes, leading to dangerous gas pump fires. However, considering that there is no documented case of this ever happening, there seems to be little cause for alarm. On the other hand, there have been hundreds of documented gas pump fires caused by static electricity. A common reason is motorists re-entering the vehicle while refuelling and unwittingly charging clothes against the car upholstery

btw taken from http://www.imobile.com.au/CoverStory/

It was also in the Motoring Section of the major newsapaer here by the RAC Chief that it was a load of bollocks and theres no documented cases of it ever happening
Nevertheless youre not going to test the theory ........... :doh: :hide:

[XLR8 V8]

I actually got chipped by a bird behind the counter the other night for doing this, she told me it was illegal do to overfilling, I told her they have auto cut offs when full, so how could it be !!! Company policy was the reply, but after reading the part about static electricity, I might just wait next to the bowser (cap still under handle but).

You wouldn't believe the number of times the cutoff sensor does not function correctly, resulting in fuel splashing out all over the ground. This is one of the reasons the locking clips were removed from all but the fast flow diesel nozzles.
"Why the hell are they left in the fastest flowing pumps then?" - you might say. Well firstly, diesel is a lot less volatile than petrol if spilled, as it produces less vapours and has a higher flash point of 79degrees versus <-40degrees for ULP. Second is, how would you like to be a truckie standing there holding the nozzle on for up to 1000litres :eek:

As for the static risk, as the video posted above shows, the risk of ignition from ANY static source is very real, and mobile phones do produce a static charge albeit a small one. What you have to ask yourself is, do you really want to put your own life, the other customers around you, and the poor bugger working behind the counter at risk of dying a horrible burning death just so wont miss a call in the 3 minutes it takes you to fill your tank?
As you would have guessed, after over 10 years in the industry I have very little time for those tossers I caught chatting away on their phone while filling their cars - and to those who said they hadn't heard about the risk - I asked if they'd been living a hermit life in a cave in the mountains for the last 10 years :bash:

[YIIR8]

You wouldn't believe the number of times the cutoff sensor does not function correctly, resulting in fuel splashing out all over the ground. This is one of the reasons the locking clips were removed from all but the fast flow diesel nozzles.
"Why the hell are they left in the fastest flowing pumps then?" - you might say. Well firstly, diesel is a lot less volatile than petrol if spilled, as it produces less vapours and has a higher flash point of 79degrees versus <-40degrees for ULP. Second is, how would you like to be a truckie standing there holding the nozzle on for up to 1000litres :eek:

As for the static risk, as the video posted above shows, the risk of ignition from ANY static source is very real, and mobile phones do produce a static charge albeit a small one. What you have to ask yourself is, do you really want to put your own life, the other customers around you, and the poor bugger working behind the counter at risk of dying a horrible burning death just so wont miss a call in the 3 minutes it takes you to fill your tank?
As you would have guessed, after over 10 years in the industry I have very little time for those tossers I caught chatting away on their phone while filling their cars - and to those who said they hadn't heard about the risk - I asked if they'd been living a hermit life in a cave in the mountains for the last 10 years :bash:

Exactly, totally agree about the tossers on their phones, what I should of said was this: I've been doing the 'ole cap under the handle for ages and this was the first time someone has actually chipped me about it at any servo up and down the coast, would cost fark all to make the bowser handle anti-cap putar underer yet still free flowing I reckon.

[Rt!]

Mobile phones that light up when switched on or when they ring release enough energy to provide a spark for ignition

That alone tells me its bullshit.
Lighting up mobile phones release energy? wtf.
The energy is in the transmission, not in the lights of the phone. It can peak very high for a very short amount of time.

[Emre]

That video linked above is unbelievable.

I'd never witnessed anything like it.

It is certainly one of those cases where it's dismissed quickly when it shouldn't.

[kaniSS-81]

The static electric stuff always happens to me when i fill up .... i hope my car doesnt go out in flames....
:bash:

[ADV51]

I know it is not a good idea to use mobiles at a bowser.

He is an OT task for you all.

Find one real newarticle article (not one 16 pages back in a Sunday paper) of an incident where an explosion has occurred.
Media Watch traced these articles sometime ago and all were stories written on heresay.
Not saying it won't happen just saying it is more a litigation issue than a real threat.

[mgygto]

Its a lot of nonsense to suggest that the use of a mobile is going to cause an explosion at a fuel pump. Heres a quote from the Australian Standards body responsible for overseeing this :

"The underlying principle behind the health and safety standard is the intensity of the radio wave signal, or electromagnetic energy (EME). The signal strength is limited by the environmental standard to a level sufficiently low to protect all people, in all environments, at all times. "

There is much more than this but the basis is that a normally functioning handset is no danger to anyone in any environment. Even the power spike required to initiate a call to a basestation on a network remains within these standards. Maybe, possibly, theoretically, ??? a really really really faulty handset with a faulty battery being used next to a faulty pump in a dodgy servo might create a problem..........

[rodp]

As I mentioned earlier, The Petroleum Equipment Institute, along with
several other companies now, are really trying to make the public aware
of this danger. You can find out more information by going to <<http://www.pei.org/>> . Once here, click in the center of the screen where it says "Stop Static".

I ask you to please send this information to ALL your family and friends, especially those who have kids in the car with them while pumping gas. If this were to happen to them, they may not be able to get the children out in time. Thanks for passing this along.

Sounds like you're more likely to be rogered to death by a rampant Rhino than you are to be blown up by static electricity at a fuel pump.

These have been circulating for years, and have been shown time and time again to be bollocks. I'm all for taking due care at the pump, and talking on a mobile phone distracts you from the (potentially dangerous) task at hand which is of more of a concern than the unlikely events that would have to come together in order for fumes to be ignited by the phone.

We quite happily drive into service stations in vehicles powered by combustible engines and panic when someone is walking around with a mobile phone!

Given the amount of tank fills that occur a day and the instance of an incident that wasn't based on hearsay that occurs (so far all the incidents I've seen reported on phone vs fuel pump were quickly debunked) one would suggest that it's an exceptionally low risk exercise.

[rodp]

It was also in the Motoring Section of the major newsapaer here by the RAC Chief that it was a load of bollocks and theres no documented cases of it ever happening
Nevertheless youre not going to test the theory ........... :doh: :hide:

Free Darwin award to anyone who can prove the Cheif wrong... :p

[RedR8]

"The underlying principle behind the health and safety standard is the intensity of the radio wave signal, or electromagnetic energy (EME). The signal strength is limited by the environmental standard to a level sufficiently low to protect all people, in all environments, at all times. "


Exactly.

The greatest threat a mobile phone poses is the risk of 'spark gap' ignition of fumes. This could occur if say the phone was dropped, and contact between the terminals of the battery and the phone was lost. IF this gap happened to be just the right size for just the right length of time, the phone and battery will become two plates of a conductor, store a charge and then discharge, POSSIBLY creating enough energy to ignite the fumes.

The fumes are at ground level at any case, so using your phone poses no great risk. It is a big stretch to get the right combination of factors to have problems. Just leave the phone in the car anyhow.

Lachy

[Speedy Gonzales]

Doubt that a mobile itself could light a spark. If thats the case, just starting up your car could lead to an explosion, possible, but highly unlikely.

Im more scared of seeing someone having a smoko whilst filling up than using a mobile phone.

Static and gas is what makes an explosion, make sure you ground yourself when getting out of car, open door, touch door sill as exiting, simple.

[XLR8 V8]

ADV51,
An incident occured at the Mobil servo around the corner from the servo I ran. A woman was filling up and heard her phone ringing in the car ... she reached in and grabbed it and went back to filling as she pressed the answer key. The fumes around the fillpoint of her vehicle ignited. Now we are not talking an explosion like it blew her car up or anything Hollywood-like - it was more like the flames seen in that HRT V8 Supercar you often see in the RPM promos on TV - but resulted in first degree burns to the womans hand and forearm (like a bad sunburn). The incident made an appearance in the Courier Mail.
The POTENTIAL for a more serious incident was there - and as I said above - putting the lives of those around you at risk just to answer your phone (when 99.9% of them have messagebank of some kind) is just plain moronic in my eyes.


EDIT: And NO, I didn't just hear a rumour that this happened - I was speaking to the manager of the site at a conference and asked them about the Ambulance that I saw at the servo when I drove past to spy on her fuel prices ;)

[chops]

We quite happily drive into service stations in vehicles powered by combustible engines and panic when someone is walking around with a mobile phone!

Yes, I've seen far more flames shot out of exhaust pipes from backfires than I have ever seen sparks from mobile phones. This may be oversimplification, but to me this suggests the risk is far less than actually driving a car in to the servo in the first place, let alone if there was another car there!

Regardless, in the car is where the phone stays.

[nthnbeachesguy]

Not too sure on this one but i do know that when i work at a petrol dump in Port Botany i am required to leave my phone and my keys ( any keys with a remote central locking button) in the car parked in a safe zone or in their office. There would be something behind this!!!!1

[muzza]

This was discussed in New Scientist last year I think - the supposed danger presented by mobile phone is via electro magnetic induced charge - ie: radio waves inducing a current in nearby metal objects then causing a static spark that could ignite vapours.

They concluded there are no documented cases of this actually happening from a phone.

Actual refueling explosions were caused by static buildup on the person, the car or from the fuel running down the inside of the fuel tank filler pipe friction charging the fuel tank. You may remember some early european cars with new plastic tanks had fire problems because of this - now all plastic tanks have an earthing strap somewhere to prevent charge builup during refueling.

[rodp]

Not too sure on this one but i do know that when i work at a petrol dump in Port Botany i am required to leave my phone and my keys ( any keys with a remote central locking button) in the car parked in a safe zone or in their office. There would be something behind this!!!!1

Possibly the same joint I occassionally do work at, but I think it's more to do with current emitting devices than anything else. I do work in some of the control rooms and I don't think they'd want anything that could potentially screw with their 40yr old instruments.

[mustardss]

This video is a good reason why static electricity + fuel vapour = very very bad

right click, save as (http://www.southcom.com.au/~spcampbe/gas.wmv) it is about 3.2meg.


geee that's a good video. that's why i always touch the ground or other non metal object before filling up the car, feel pretty bad though as , it looks weird by someonelse. But sometimes, still get zaap once i touch the fuel cap :confused:

[RedR8]

IF this gap happened to be just the right size for just the right length of time, the phone and battery will become two plates of a conductor, store a charge and then discharge, POSSIBLY creating enough energy to ignite the fumes.

EDIT: Sorry...I mean capacitor, not conductor.

Lachy

[caseyp]

It was also in the Motoring Section of the major newsapaer here by the RAC Chief that it was a load of bollocks and theres no documented cases of it ever happening
Nevertheless youre not going to test the theory ........... :doh: :hide:
The RAC chief needs to go back to school and learn about static electricity.
Fuel is not the problem, it's the vapour that is the concern. With the right conditions, air vapour etc. the slightest spark will ignite.
The most dangerous time is when the tank is near empty and being filled as the vapour is forced out of the tank.
The chief should contact the oil companies and ask for some of the investigations they had done on fires in service stations.

[loki86]

guys i hate to break the news but mobiles dont ignite fires, heres why:

The battery has not got enough space nor does the inside of the telephone for enough vapour or gas to enter and cause an ignition, remember 7th grade science, air, heat and fuel, no air - no fire.

The leather case most people use with their telephones does not alow any circulation of air into the telephone thus no circulation no way for fumes again to enter the phone.

Most fires claimed to be ignited by mobiles are actually ignited by static electricity caused when the phone case (plastic) and the synthetic clothes you wear rub together causing static placing the phone on the car discharges this static and causes a spark, the phone itself is NOT responsible your synthetic clothing is.

And finally it was more than likely the spark that ignited any fire claimed to have been caused by a mobile was caused by static in the pump, on the vehicle or on the person pumping the fuel, a spark would have to be in DIRECT contact with the fumes and close contact at that, unless ofcourse they were pumping petrol in an iron lung .... which would be highly suspect after all petrol stations are designed to remove the vapours as soon as possible.

p.s they also tried this test on mythbusters using all kinds of gasses vapours and fuels. and guess what MYTH BUSTED! did someone forget petroleum vapours fall? oh hang on a minute honey im going to put my statically charged plastic mobile under the petrol cap while i fill up an empty tank and rub my hands all over my synthetic pants (almost like rubbing carpet with a ballon)

[XLR8 V8]

guys i hate to break the news but mobiles dont ignite fires, heres why:

The battery has not got enough space nor does the inside of the telephone for enough vapour or gas to enter and cause an ignition, remember 7th grade science, air, heat and fuel, no air - no fire.

The leather case most people use with their telephones does not alow any circulation of air into the telephone thus no circulation no way for fumes again to enter the phone.

Most fires claimed to be ignited by mobiles are actually ignited by static electricity caused when the phone case (plastic) and the synthetic clothes you wear rub together causing static placing the phone on the car discharges this static and causes a spark, the phone itself is NOT responsible your synthetic clothing is.

And finally it was more than likely the spark that ignited any fire claimed to have been caused by a mobile was caused by static in the pump, on the vehicle or on the person pumping the fuel, a spark would have to be in DIRECT contact with the fumes and close contact at that, unless ofcourse they were pumping petrol in an iron lung .... which would be highly suspect after all petrol stations are designed to remove the vapours as soon as possible.

p.s they also tried this test on mythbusters using all kinds of gasses vapours and fuels. and guess what MYTH BUSTED! did someone forget petroleum vapours fall? oh hang on a minute honey im going to put my statically charged plastic mobile under the petrol cap while i fill up an empty tank and rub my hands all over my synthetic pants (almost like rubbing carpet with a ballon)


And you pulled a thread out of it's almost 2 year sleep for that? :rolleyes:

[Super Snake]

A 'genuine' bomb tech should know not to dismiss static electricity as total bullshit, its a very serious concern to someone who uses explosives. Which is why its rare to find someone who still uses electric detonated explosives, the risk is just too great. (and if you think im talking out my ass, ive done explosive training with the head of the AFP's bomb squad)

Static electricity is a very dangerous around combustable material. I work in an environment where I handle multiple solvents. I am only allowed to wear company issued clothes shoes. Also everything has to be earthed. Everytime I buy petrol, I always touch the pump before I pick up the nozzle to discharge any possible charge that I might have.

[VYCLUB]

Surely someone must of seen the episode of mythbusters where they put this theory to the test.
They tried different modifications to the mobile to try and get some sort of spark and all to know avail.
In the end they said it is highly unlikely a mobile phone can set off an explosion at the bowser.
And I tend to agree with them a load of crap.

[alexcs]

please provide proof of the OT please. that is almost verbatim a bullshit spam going round the traps 6 months ago.


mobile phones do not "spark" when incoming calls come in. people seem to imagine their amazing gimmicks sparking and pinging away in their hands as they conduct their magical operations. it doesnt work like that, unless by some strange circumstance its dropped the the battery somehow falls out (how this happens with most new phones is beyond me, theyre so locked in) AND happens to land in concentrated petrol vapours AND happens to produce a spark outside the casing of the phone at jsut the right intensity to start combustion. from here, you will get a quick flash from the surrounding vapour, and the fire may continue to burn from the fuel filler moderately. smother that and the threat is over.

basically, keep your face clear of the vapours coming out of the filler, keep your phone in your pocket, and get it over with :)


Gas however is a slightly different story. a decent spark in concentrated gas WILL give you a ride and a half :)

[Ryzz]

I think we can put this one to bed boys & girls. Its an olllld thread and we are all sensible enough to light our smokes with a gas torch while we are filling up our cars at the servo :rolleyes: