Is a GTS engine considered unopened?

[C4B]

I've read a heap on here about Opened vs Unopened engines in relation to dyno comps and drag racing which made me wonder.....

Is a VTII / VX / VY GTS with the C4B engine classed as unopened?

[strife]

is it an opened ls1 I guess yes

[Plan B]

No, they have heads and cam.

[Craig]

Definitely opened after the factory by Callaway.

[STATIE]

And this would make a Boss 290 opened? :hmmm:

[LSX-438]

what is the actual process of building a C4B? do they take a stock ls1, pull it apart and replace heads/cam/whathaveyou.. or do they start with something less.

[Dickie Knee]

I would say unopened as this is how the engine is sold by Holden.

This engine is supplied by Holden to HSV in their "Core" cars.

HSV do not "open" the engine after the car has left the factory (Holden)

[strife]

we are really talking about LS1s engines

The engines have been opened, simple

or do we buy a CSV with a 422 to take out the stock class ;)

[Plan B]

I would say unopened as this is how the engine is sold by Holden. )

Not Holden... HSV


This engine is supplied by Holden to HSV in their "Core" cars.

The engine is supplied by, Callaway to HSV not from Holden to HSV


HSV do not "open" the engine after the car has left the factory (Holden)

The engine comes from Callaway.... not Holden.



Is a VTII / VX / VY GTS with the C4B engine classed as unopened?

Again.... No, they have heads and cam. :)

Perhaps on a GTS dyno day, you could say it's unopened. ;)

[Ricko]

Surely its unopened. I doubt Callaway get a stock fully built LS1 motor, and exchange heads and cam. If no other part was ever put in the engine but what ends up in it, how can it be opened??

[YIIR8]

Callaway Engine as supplied to HSV, therefore, when it leaves HSV it is unopened.

[F6Mauz]

Wouldn't an LS1 and C4B be classed differently? So it's an unopened C4B.

[Dickie Knee]

Not Holden... HSV



The engine is supplied by, Callaway to HSV not from Holden to HSV

No engine is supplied from Callaway to holden and fitted to the core car ( the engine assy has a Holden part number ) Engine is covered by a Holden warranty not HSV or Callaway. I would like to see a opened motor with these mods covred by warranty (inc mods )


The engine comes from Callaway.... not Holden.

Yes from callaway but to Holden Not HSV


Again.... No, they have heads and cam. :)

Yes this is how Holden supply the engine in the car "Factory"
The haeds and cams are fitted standard to that car.

Perhaps on a GTS dyno day, you could say it's unopened. ;)
..........

[Dickie Knee]

Wouldn't an LS1 and C4B be classed differently? So it's an unopened C4B.

Thats my point

Its a "factory" option C4B not an after market mod.

Sorry it's just my way of thinking.

We should change this to a pole.

[SSbaby]

It's unopened because HSV have contracted the second stage of manufacture to Callaway (i.e. before the vehicle is driven by the customer) ...a bit like the LS6 although it's made internally by GM.
:stupid:

[Plan B]

So it's a fair advantage in a competition?

[Redline]

Different class of motor.

If there was a "C4B" class then it would be unopened, compared to an "LS1" class its opened because it has different heads and cam.

[strife]

"Callaway's 18,000-square feet of engineering and testing facilities are equipped with the very latest technologies, tools and a passionate team of craftsmen. New 5.7L engines are shipped directly from the GM Powertrain factory in St. Catherines, Quebec, Canada, to Old Lyme, CT where Callaway craftsmen build the high-performance 405-hp variant with custom-sourced as well as in-house fabricated components. "


big head and cam shop and an opened LS1

If you put c4b LS1 into another car would it be classed as open ?

In Holden v Ford show arent they classed as open ?

[LSX-438]

is it shipped to calloway as a complete motor or somewhat short?

the original question does not make the C4B or LS1 distinction merely opened/unopened. I guess everyone can see it would be unfair to match up a C4B against a stock LS1 in an unopened LS1 dyno comp, is that the assertion/interfence of the original question?

also is a C4B technically an LS1 after these 'mods'?

[Danv8]

I've read a heap on here about Opened vs Unopened engines in relation to dyno comps and drag racing which made me wonder.....

Is a VTII / VX / VY GTS with the C4B engine classed as unopened?

Personally I would class the C4B an "opened" engine. I find if any engine from stock has been pulled apart to be fitted with a different cam and heads and other internal devices by a 3rd party or inhouse company.

An "unopened" engine is just an engine with stock internals. But the catch is though some people think an LS1 with stock internals but have LS1 edit, Zorst and air intake changes/supercharger is an "opened engine" which it isn't really.

Thats my theory. :D

[LSX-438]

perhaps its an opened LS1 yet an unopened C4B.

[Danv8]

is it shipped to calloway as a complete motor or somewhat short?

----
Not 100% sure but I think they get the complete engine sent over to Calloway.
----

also is a C4B technically an LS1 after these 'mods'?

----
Basically its starts its life as a LS1 and then it gets the internal and other mods done and gets re-labled as the C4B to make it distinctive. Like the GM inhouse Z06 engine.

[strife]

is it shipped to calloway as a complete motor or somewhat short?



I would say complete, given the factory normally spin up the engines to ensure oiling is working properly

http://www.carcoders.com/hsvgto/powerplant.pdf

[Danv8]

perhaps its an opened LS1 yet an unopened C4B.

Yeah I guess it really depends on what others call it. I just find the C4B to be a luke warmed up LS1 than anything else. Although it goes without they are not bringing out the maximum potential out of the engines like many people who do aftermarket jobbies. I find the LS6 (Z06 spec) to be similar to the C4B in a way although the Z06 has the edge over it in the torque department 542.3 Nm over the C4B's 510nm. I would like to know where they got the extra 32.3 nm from in the Z06. Shame we didn't get that spec for the high spec HSV's.

[bennoxr8]

I think the most important thing here is to not place the C4B in the same category as an LS1.

The C4B engine should be considered unopened in the form that it comes from the factory tucked inside a GTS. However, this should never be directly compared to an unopened LS1, because that would just be unfair... the engine's internals are too dissimilar.

Boss 290 should be considered unopened, but once again, should never be considered in the same category as a 260, for the same reason as above.

Just my 2c

[strife]

isnt the boss 260 hand assembled by FPV so its not off the line either,

whats the deal on the normal 5.4 ?

[F6Mauz]

isnt the boss 260 hand assembled by FPV so its not off the line either,

whats the deal on the normal 5.4 ?

Compered to the 290 it has lower compression, smaller cams and weaker valvetrain.