ChipTorque Reigns Supreme

[bobg]

Yesterday, Lauchlan [ChipTorque] reminded me it was 11.28 PM on some dirty, wet, miserable Melbourne night just before Xmas 2003 that we ran the first tune on my Holden V8 stroker. This was on an engine dyno and we did not have a BCM set up so we could not communicate with the system in real time. Consequently, it was Lauchlan's BEST GUESS from memory - how spot on this BEST GUESS turned out to be shows below.

With a [very] basic exhaust and inlet system on the engine dyno we got 382 HP [285 Kw] at 5200 RPM with over 500 NM torque between 2800 and 5400 RPM with a peak near 600 NM between 3400 and 4200 RPM.

A subsequent tune when the engine was in the car with a better inlet and exhaust system using Kalmaker software on Pete Starr's dyno gave about 304 RWHP at 5000 RPM and 360 ftLb of torque between 3400 RPM and 4200 RPM for both the new chip and the original "Lauchy's Guess". If you do the conversions between engine and chassis dyno's you will see that there is VERY LITTLE IN IT for engine and chassis results.

However, the KALMAKER tune was [much] less than satisfactory on the road as it was rough at idle, hunting at idle between 400 RPM and 1600 RPM at times, pig rooted no end at low speed and stalling most times whenever the clutch was disengaged particularly when the climate control was on [this was partially fixed by Pete Starr changing the throttle stepper adjustment - contrary to Kalmaker's recommendations]. It even ocurred frequently when the travel speed was 80 km/h or so - drop the clutch to go from fourth to third and the engine would stall - SHIT, SHIT, SHIT. A subsequent "retune" supposedly to fix these faults resulted in even worse perfomance - stalling often even without the climate control being on and even more pig rooting at low speeds and with a huge flat spot just above idle - real good for take-offs.

Went back to the original ChipTorque tune [inserted the original chip] as this was at least driveable even though it was deliberately set a little rich for security and was really just a "get the donk running" tune. Despite this, it was far superior to the Kalmaker tune [and re-tune] after the engine was in the car even though the ChipTorque tune was done pretty much as a guess on an engine dyno.

Finally managed to get Lauchlan back to VIC despite the cold weather to have another go using F1 Performance's facilities!

ABSOLUTE WOW!!!!! And BTW, a big thanks to George and Steve [and others] at F1. They are the most helpful and friendly guys you could find in this business so if you need some advice/help see F1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is nothing they cannot do - well maybe organising a NASA MARS landing is a little problematical but anything less?? They will have a go - and probably succeed!!!!!

BACK TO LAUCHLAN!!!

Not only did he get rid on most of the problems with the Kalmaker tune but he got a further 18 HP [13 Kw] at the rear wheels without even trying. [My directions were to get the thing running smoothly even if this meant sacrificing some top end power]

You might say different dyno, different day but we ran an initial power run before any changes were made and got almost exactly the same results on this differnt dyno [within 1 kw at the same RPM] as the original "Lauchy's Guess" and the last Kalmaker tune on Pete Starr's dyno.

This Holden Stroker is now producing 322 RWHP [240 RWKw] at 5100 to 5400 RPM and over 400 Nm at the rear wheels between 2400 RPM and 5400 RPM.

This equates to an engine output of over 320 KW at 5200 RPM and over 600 NM between 2800 and 4800 RPM. Should wipe the smile from many Gen III owners and all those BOSS drivers. 510 Nm max Ha! Ha! Ha!

From a stroked Holden V8 it will take more than a couple of packets of kleenex to wipe the smile from my face.

[YIIR8]

Bob......what was the purpose of this thread???
either
a) You lurve Lachlan
b) You wanna race GENIII's
c) You ran outta kleenex's
d) Your very very drunk. :lol: :lol:
:p
Ummmm.........well done.......I guess :rolleyes:

[georgec]

Any engine details you care to post?

[VX2VESS]

thats great to get it working right after all that inbetween stuff, good result.

one thing you said you had 382 hp the first basic tune, then at starr it was only 304 hp big diff in those dynos then.

agian its how it drives not the top end power reading, sounds like it drives well now.

[jim]

can you give us cam specs? what kind of manifold? any details for us? this is very interesting as i am just deciding who to get to tune my new 355!

[Beej]

thats great to get it working right after all that inbetween stuff, good result.

one thing you said you had 382 hp the first basic tune, then at starr it was only 304 hp big diff in those dynos then.

agian its how it drives not the top end power reading, sounds like it drives well now.

Hey vt2vx - I think he was saying the first run was on an engine dyno (382 hp) and the second run was on a chassis dyno (304rwhp) which sounds about right?

Cheers,

Beej

[RhysB]

Great result mate :cool: That is some good power from the old iron block. It should do very well on the strip aswell. :cheers: Got any pics or specs??

[VX2VESS]

Hey vt2vx - I think he was saying the first run was on an engine dyno (382 hp) and the second run was on a chassis dyno (304rwhp) which sounds about right?

Cheers,

Beej

ah yes my mistake he did say engine dyno up top.

[bobg]

a) You lurve Lachlan
b) You wanna race GENIII's
c) You ran outta kleenex's
d) Your very very drunk

I think you were right on all four counts :D :D :D

Will post some engine build details shortly.

[VFast]

Bobg

Good to hear that you finally got the tune sorted out.

They can be an absolute b1tch to drive when they aren't tuned right.

[indecisive]

WOW, :cool:

great numbers. :drool:

Some details would be welcome too.

Would you say that SAS could do a similar tune?

[HRT Stroker]

Very suprising about Kalmaker. I would have thought Starr would have recruited Delco to tune your car. What prog does Lachlan use?

When you say what Kalmaker recommended, do you mena Alan (Injection Connection) in WA or the actual people (Kalsoft) who write the software?

Either way great to hear you got it sussed! Would also be interested to hear your engine specs as we have similar animals........not quite power wise though!

[IIV8II]

Uh, yeah, Kalmaker is just the software package... that's like saying Sidchrome fixed my car...

Yeah Lachlan is a good operator, IMO. Any bloke who could tune Todd's car gets a nod from me...

[spiv]

Kalmaker is good s*&t. I have personally seen Sam tune a VS 355 stroker with BIG roller cam and 8 throttle bodies and achieve 408 RWHP with excellent drivability. I'm sure that each tuner has their owm preferred tuning software and the skill of the operator will determine the end result as much as the actual combination. :p

[IIV8II]

Ah, yeah, many of us know Kalmaker is good sh*t, but so are my Sidchromes. But they ain't doing nuthin' without someone spinnin 'em... I've personally seen most of the tuners on this forum - and even some who aren't - tune all sorts of things. That's what they do for a living...

[bobg]

When you say what Kalmaker recommended, do you mena Alan (Injection Connection) in WA or the actual people (Kalsoft) who write the software?

From Kalmaker's web site re tuning engines with large throttle bodies that play havoc with manifold vacuum levels - pulsing etc.

[vimfuego]

BACK TO LAUCHLAN!!!.

How about sharing some of the LS1 tuning stories of he's :p , there's plenty on this forum :o




This equates to an engine output of over 320 KW at 5200 RPM and over 600 NM between 2800 and 4800 RPM. Should wipe the smile from many Gen III owners and all those BOSS drivers. 510 Nm max Ha! Ha! Ha!

Yep, betcha can't get 12-13L/100 around town though, plenty of 240RWKW LS1's doing that.....of interest, the final RWKW run, was that done on Starr's dyno again??.

Anyway, enjoy the new ride, with those kinda figures from a GMH V8 it's gotta sound tough.

[bobg]

Yep, betcha can't get 12-13L/100 around town though, plenty of 240RWKW LS1's doing that.....of interest, the final RWKW run, was that done on Starr's dyno again??.

True. Getting nearer 16-18 L/100 around town at the moment but I am still enjoying the beast and hammering it hard at times. Still, don't mind using a bit more fuel if it drives properly. I know of one guy in a small country town with absolutely no traffic problems and he gets about 26 L/100 around town with his VX R8 Clubby. :eek:

The final RWKW run was on F1's dyno but we did an initial "before tune" run first up and the results were within a couple of kW right through the range so allowing for a slightly cooler day and a K&N pod in place of the K&N panel, the two dynos are pretty close.

[HRT Stroker]

is it all good now Bobg??

[bobg]

Pretty well OK but not perfect. The last manual V8 I had was an original HK GTS 327 Monaro [sold it a couple of years ago and it has gone to a good home - being fully restored] and you could drop the clutch on that at any revs and it would just go. But that donk only put out 250HP @ 4800 RPM [probably exaggerated even then]. With this donk [400+ real flywheel HP at 5200 RPM] you need a few more revs than I am used to low down on take off but that was the same comment on the HSV 427 - "race bred engine needs revs on take off".

The extra revs combined with the light clutch I chose can be a problem. Get the clutch fully engaged and tramp it and no worries - wheel spin everywhere. But give it the herbs before the clutch has fully engaged and the massive torque just overwhelms the clutch's capabilities - lots of slip and lots of smell. Means that off the line performance needs very, very delicate control - not the best for traffic light drags - but in most cases what I lose in the first few seconds I make up with the sheer oomph later.

Collecting the engine/cam specs and other details and will include it in a PM shortly.

Thanks for the interest, matey.

[HRT Stroker]

Cheers on the info - look forward to it!!

Interest?? - Us "Old" Stroker owners have to stick together!!!!!!

[V82xist]

It's great to see you getting those power figures but it sounds like a lot of mucking around and unless these guys are you best pals I can imagine it was pretty costly too. The good thing about the LS1 is the relative ease of getting high outputs, not that I'm saying the tuning is easy as obviously you need to know what you are doing e.g. Anyone can drop there stock LS1 into Sam's Performance in the morning and pick up a car that afternoon that has great power and runs beautifully with ever having to worry about it, couldn't be easier.

[HRT Stroker]

Always suprises me when someone gets a 5.0 or stroker smokin how quick someone is to knock it. Sure the LS1 is easy HP - no doubt. But each to their own.

Full points to ya Bob for what ur doin', a little bit of tweaking and it will drive like a stocker.......

If you ever drive through Adelaide give us a heads up, would like to see your handy work!

[V82xist]

Always suprises me when someone gets a 5.0 or stroker smokin how quick someone is to knock it. Sure the LS1 is easy HP - no doubt. But each to their own.

Full points to ya Bob for what ur doin', a little bit of tweaking and it will drive like a stocker.......

If you ever drive through Adelaide give us a heads up, would like to see your handy work!

If you thought I was knocking it you are too overly sensitive. One of the reasons the LS1 is easier to get the power gains is it's computer which if Holden had of continued with the stroker it would've gained a better set up and would be an awesome set up by now but sadly they didn't and opted for the LS1 instead. Now I believe they made the right descision as I don't think Holden would be in the position they are now exporting cars back to the US etc. if they didn't go with the LS1. Now the LS2 is going to better again.
Bye saying the LS1 is better than the stroker doesn't mean the stroker is bad it just means it's not as good as the LS1, ok. The VY is better than the VT in a lot of ways too but I'm not bagging the VT by saying that, do you get it?
Cheers.

[VZLAD]

How much $$$$$$$$ spent getting it to that output ?

[bobg]

Too much!!!! Looking in the order of 15 big ones for the power side. Over 20 when you take into account the conversion to manual [M6], diff and tailshaft change, instrumentation and airbox, etc. But then I am a sentimental old fool and just love the Holden V8 donk.

BUT output was not the only goal I had. I wanted something that was near un-bustable and a work of art [engineering wise] to boot.

Every nut and bolt was replaced, top quality components throughout, everything matched, balanced and blueprinted. Everthing put together to race standards - tolerances, clearances, fit, balance, etc checked, checked and then checked again.

Even the [new] oil pump was blueprinted and a larger [7L] better baffled sump fitted with a custom oil pickup and oil/water intercooler installed.

You could probably get the power quite a bit cheaper but I wanted to know that it was reliable and everything inside was top notch as this piccy shows

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL330/1749213/3363733/55016804.jpg

Just me being a perfectionist :) :)

[SLE355]

Well it certantly looks like a work of art :cool: Nice numbers to!

[vimfuego]

One of the reasons the LS1 is easier to get the power gains is it's computer which if Holden had of continued with the stroker it would've gained a better set up

Mmm, so it's got nothing to do with superior heads maybe?? I know it's got bog all to do with the computer.

[vimfuego]

Always suprises me when someone gets a 5.0 or stroker smokin how quick someone is to knock it. Sure the LS1 is easy HP - no doubt. But each to their own.

No, no, any built V8 is cool, even one that has the dizzy at the wrong end of the block (stab at the FORD guys). I guess the thing is, alot of us (me included) have come from 5.0L's (even 5.7L's) and the difference is chalk and cheese compared to the LS1.
My modified 5.0L made (from memory) 155RWKW, got 14.5L-15L/100 around town, my LS1 makes 210RWKW and gets low 13L/100 around town.
Bobg is happy with he's ride now and that is great, but imagine what $15K into an LS1 would get you??.

[aussie372]

.
Bobg is happy with he's ride now and that is great, but imagine what $15K into an LS1 would get you??.

yeh it would get you sokething that has had 15k spent and still uses oil and slaps like no tomorrow ..
this is proberly the reason there are still guys spending money on the old 5.0L me included
:cheers:mark

[HRT Stroker]

No, no, any built V8 is cool, even one that has the dizzy at the wrong end of the block (stab at the FORD guys). I guess the thing is, alot of us (me included) have come from 5.0L's (even 5.7L's) and the difference is chalk and cheese compared to the LS1.
My modified 5.0L made (from memory) 155RWKW, got 14.5L-15L/100 around town, my LS1 makes 210RWKW and gets low 13L/100 around town.
Bobg is happy with he's ride now and that is great, but imagine what $15K into an LS1 would get you??.


Fair comment on the bang for your buck - no contest there. Which is why I said each to there own........ :)

The thread is about Bobg's car, not LS1 versus Iron stroker's, which is why I picked at V82xist's comment.

At the end of the day I like both engines.........Obviously biased twoards what I drive I guess, hence the interest in Bobg's beast!! :cool:

[ExAreSix]

Aint no LS1 gonna sound anywhere near as good as that Holden block would.

Some nice figures there bobg. Great work. :cool:
And for the money spent, you better bloody enjoy it. :burnout:

[SSbaby]

Steve and George from F1 performance are top blokes...two of the friendliest guys around. They treat their customers with the utmost respect. I've called Steve many times asking for advice and he is always happy to help.

[ProVK]

Can we get some specs on this engine ? Or are they secret ?