Should we be more Political and Vocal?

[VooDoo]

Should we as drivers and as a online community be using our profile and experience to become a voice, preferably a loud one in the political arena. There are many issues that are quite close to home we could be saying something about. These include the issue of speeding cameras and the revenue raising stance the government has chosen to take. I'm sure many of us have issues with the way the police are being forced to become

Another issue is the lack of driver training given to new drivers. Why not compulsory defensive driving courses for all drivers. Maybe even a retest ever 5 yrs to ensure drivers are still safe and have gained experienced. I know one person who has had 6 accidents in 6 yrs and still is the worst driver I know.

We have already used our profile to raise awareness for the Leukemia foundation. I'm working towards another cruise (The Boobs and Balls Cruise) which will raise money for breast cancer and testicular cancers. (Vic and NSW members please contact me) Just the fact we aren't a group of 18yr olds in small hotted up cars that can be defected in a second adds weight to whatever cause we decide to put out weight behind. I feel we should, as a community, work towards improving the system where we can. Raising some much needed money for cancer research along the way doesn't go un-noticed by the these same people we want to influence.

[Lani]

Should we as drivers and as a online community be using our profile and experience to become a voice, preferably a loud one in the political arena.

Another issue is the lack of driver training given to new drivers. Why not compulsory defensive driving courses for all drivers. Maybe even a retest ever 5 yrs to ensure drivers are still safe and have gained experienced. I know one person who has had 6 accidents in 6 yrs and still is the worst driver I know.


I’m interested in that issue for sure! I know many people who have gotten their licence who are a serious danger to other drivers, and I forever want to wind my window down and yell at people for having no road sense.


I'm working towards another cruise (The Boobs and Balls Cruise) which will raise money for breast cancer and testicular cancers.

BWUAHAHAHAHA @ Boobs And Balls.. that’s great!!! I am interested in helping out for this cruise!

:cheers:

[HRT Stroker]

[QUOTE=VooDoo]

Another issue is the lack of driver training given to new drivers. Why not compulsory defensive driving courses for all drivers. Maybe even a retest ever 5 yrs to ensure drivers are still safe and have gained experienced. I know one person who has had 6 accidents in 6 yrs and still is the worst driver I know.

I have been an advocate of this idea for many years. My first experience of driving a car on bitumen was lapping Malala Raceway in my little RX-4 @ 15 years of age!! Prior to this I had had 18 months experience at the local car club doing autcross in another Rx-4. During my first few years I (like just about every P -Plater ever) exceded the speed limit regularly, spent copious amounts of money making my cars handle better and go faster and did my best to find the limits of my cars (and my own) limitations on the road.

The only reason I never hurt myself or anyone else was the two or three years I spent racing cars at club level, gaining the experience in car control that served me well in many a sticky situation.

Had the car club not closed I doubt I would have spent so much time doing these things on public roads, indeed since we have rejoined (the club had relocated and restarted years after) we are taking out our speed needs on the track again! (except for the odd LS1 cruise ;)

Cars now are FAR more powerful and with the influx of cheap higher powered imports, much more accessible to inexperienced drivers.

A government scheme to give income in the form of grants to car clubs to effect a training course in defensive driving would acheive three win-win goals:

1. Help struggling car clubs with income and membership
2. Encourage people to take there racing aspiration to a controlled environment off public roads.
3. Supply young people with the basic car control skills that can save their lives.

Is there a downside?? Not that I can think of providing the scheme is managed by people geuinely interested in a successful outcome........

More power to ya Voodoo!!

[Kirium]

One downside that comes to mind with your funding for car clubs to run driver training is that the majority of drivers on the roads have no interest in cars, they are just commuters, not drivers. Driving implies you are making a conscious effort at controlling your vehicle and being aware of your surroundings and continuously adapting to changes. A huge number of people go into zombie mode when they get behind the wheel and it amazes me what people will try and do while driving (like shaving/putting on make-up/reading papers)... I'd take a stab in the dark and say less than 2% of the population belong to a recognised car club, and of those people (who are obviously enthusiasts) a majority would have already completed further driver education of some kind... With no requirement to be part of a car club, I see no way of car club funding changing anything...

By my way of thinking, advanced driver training should become compulsory by law, with progressively more advanced courses required to be undertaken and successfully passed over your driving life and testing required every 5 years to make sure you have remained competent at driving a car. Getting circa 1970 Datsun $hitboxes and similar off the road would help set the environment for more advanced and modern cars to be standard. Combined with advanced driver training and a focus on upgraded major roads, there would be no reason why speed limits would even exist on major interstate highways, and higher limits on major arterial roads... This would reduce what I believe is the major contributing factor for accidents on our highways which is fatigue...

Alot of money, but hey, with over a billion dollars revenue from greed camera's over the last FY, I'm sure that'd make a good start...

[cheffy]

Absolutely... I started my driving career at mallala when i was 12 in a formula Vee and I had a few years of competition experience before i drove on the road and I spent lots of time trying to find the limits of adhesion. Thankfully i had the skills to enable me to not crash or lose control like many of my mates.

I honestly believe that people should have to do a basic driver training course. I teach at some of these courses and it has really slowed me down. You just don't realise how bad a lot of people are including those that think they know what they're doing. Not very many people know how to brake or where to look on the road. And even ,more dangerous is the laack of control over hte steering wheel. Not many people at all realise that there is a little "bomb" in the middle of their steering wheel and if your hand is across it its like puching yourself in the head at 350km/h...... (assuming you have a crash). That large watch you have on your writs is suddenly a weapon...

I feel really strongly about driver traing and more importantly the safety of the cars on the road. The kids these days can get performance ars at their fingertips for virtually nothing. Even a V6 Vn is dangerous in the wrong hands. (but thats another story)

Im all for raising the speed limits onhte open road, but you have to remember the rules are all made with the lowest common denominator in mind.

[Kirium]

I agree that those limits cater to the lowest common denominator.

However, compulsory advanced driver training, better roads and far more stringent roadworthy testing would drastically raise the minimum standard of the community allowing higher limits->reducing fatigue (on long inter-state trips)->lower road toll...

[Sidewindr]

VooDoo for PM :headbang:

Actually I believe it should be the same for car licenses as it is for bike licenses. Bike riders are required to complete an acredited rider training course prior to doing their test for their Ps.

[HRT Stroker]

[QUOTE=Kirium]One downside that comes to mind with your funding for car clubs to run driver training is that the majority of drivers on the roads have no interest in cars, they are just commuters, not drivers.

Woops! :doh:

I meant that the funding would be for a compulsory driver training course! Didn't make that clear in my original post....... :D

Even if it helps out Mum's on the way home from picking the kids up from school in the rain.............it woul'd save lives in the long run.

[Nawdy]

VooDoo - great idea. Who would you think would be a logical politician to garner support from? What about John Anderson, the Federal Transport minister? From what I believe, he is a car enthusiast and drives himself to work in an SS, unlike most pollies.

Beware - long post!!!

Some of the issues that could be addressed:
- driver licencing. Candidates need to be able to prove they can drive a car at a certain level before they are allow to use public roads;
- pre-driver education. Kids in schools are taught how to cross the road, ect, and then the education stops there until licencing time. Why not continue this education in the school enviroment with the aim to have a more educated candidate come "L" plate time?
- driver education. All drivers should be retested at regular intervals, and those who fail should have to successfully complete a defensive and/or advanced driver training course before regaining their licence. The main basis should be driver skill/car control and driver attitude;
- our roads. A lot of roads within Australia are in dire need of repair/replacing and, in my opinion, would be a contributing factor in the road toll;
- sensible speed limits. As the level of driver skill rises, speed limits should be reviewed at regular intervals, and a system devised for speed limits to be changed to suit road conditions during the day on some roads;
- road signs. All road signs to be clear and concise, and in clear view of road users;
- speed cameras. Speed cameras should be regulated (Say 1 per 100,000 people within a given area), operators accredited and aware of operating guidelines, and each camera must be certified as servicable and checked by an independent authority before being deployed. No permanently situated cameras. Guidelines should be reviewed and uniform across all states, and operated by an independent authority with no political influence;
- quota system. This system should be outlawed;
- road laws. Should be revised so there is no "double dipping" or "discretionary" laws that can be used, to provide a system that everyone understands and knows the consequences of breaking these laws;
- innocent until proven guilty. This right should be returned to the average road user, with the onus on government to prove guilt (eg speed camera fines)
- roadworthiness. Cars should be roadworthied on a regular basis;
- car replacement. Govt should look into a system similar to Japan regarding subsidised car replacement to make purchasing a new car affordable for all Australians.

Can anyone else add to this small list?

Comments?

[V8Symphony]

[COLOR=Yellow]
I have been an advocate of this idea for many years. My first experience of driving a car on bitumen was lapping Malala Raceway in my little RX-4 @ 15 years of age!! Prior to this I had had 18 months experience at the local car club doing autcross in another Rx-4. During my first few years I (like just about every P -Plater ever) exceded the speed limit regularly, spent copious amounts of money making my cars handle better and go faster and did my best to find the limits of my cars (and my own) limitations on the road.

The only reason I never hurt myself or anyone else was the two or three years I spent racing cars at club level, gaining the experience in car control that served me well in many a sticky situation.

Can't agree with you more on this point stroker, I raced karts for many years prior to getting my licence, and I can honestly say that I'm the only person in my group of mates from school / uni that hasn't written off a car (touch wood!)

I completely attribute this to the skills I learnt driving karts at the limit (and sometimes beyond them) in a safe environment. Knowing what a vehicle will do in these circumstances has tought me the skills necessary to survive on our roads.

I would strongly suggest compulsory driver training similar to many driver training courses going around, eg emergency braking, understeer / oversteer and high speed handling, as these skills would increase the safety level on our roads.

just my 2.2c worth (inc GST)

griffo

[flappist]

Be careful
Remember government is full of beaurocrats.
It is much easier for them to vilify performance vehicle owners, ban the cars and bring in tighter laws than to actually fix any perceived problems.
Example.
It is very easy to tell if a car has a power to weight ratio that is "too high" or has "too much torque" or id going "too fast".
It is also easy to measure blood alchol level etc.

How do you measure "driving inability"?
Too hard, how many of our noisy minority groups would scream their tits off if they were considered "not up to scratch.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

[VooDoo]

anyone know how we can contact John Anderson? Email address etc. Just beginning a dialog with him is a start. Ive often thought about entering politics to target these exact issues (although i have no idea how to nor if its even possible)

Getting Federal support for driver training or even subsidies would be a great start. I will also look at contacting ALL Aust insurance companies. I know im just a small voice in the middle of a raging sea but we need to start somewhere.

[Thunder]

anyone know how we can contact John Anderson? Email address etc. Just beginning a dialog with him is a start. Ive often thought about entering politics to target these exact issues (although i have no idea how to nor if its even possible)

Getting Federal support for driver training or even subsidies would be a great start. I will also look at contacting ALL Aust insurance companies. I know im just a small voice in the middle of a raging sea but we need to start somewhere.

In NSW we have Bob Carr, but he doesn't have a Drivers Licence!

Our roads are f@#*ed, so are our Hospitals & Schools. All new roads are "Toll Roads" funded by private enterprise.

Bob, you collect all the GST money, Stamp Duty, Land Tax and half our petrol money, as well as a lot more. Bob, show us the money ..... If everything you control is f@#*ed, where does the money go?

Our Police are spending more time targetting motorists (mostly P platers with rice cars) for noisy exhausts, yet they let the rust buckets go. What happened to catching the drug dealers, murderers, etc ???

Lets start a Motorists Party! Better Roads, Cheaper Petrol, Cheaper Rego & insurance, Performance Mods, etc

:lol: :lol:

[SSbaby]

FEDERAL
John Anderson
Deputy Prime Minister & Minister for Transport & Regional Services
John.Anderson.MP@aph.gov.au

Senator Ron Boswell
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Transport & Regional Services
senator.boswell@aph.gov.au

ACT
John Stanhope
Chief Minister
stanhope@act.gov.au

Bill Wood
Minister for Road Services & Transport Authority
wood@act.gov.au

NSW
Bob Carr
Premier
bob.carr@www.nsw.gove.au

Carl Scully
Minister for Roads
smithfield@parliament.nsw.gov.au

Michael Costa
Minister for Transport Services
minister@transport.nsw.gov.au

NT
Claire Martin
Chief Minister
chiefminister.nt@nt.gov.au

Hon Von Vatskalis
Minister for Transport & Infrastructure
minister.vatskalis@nt.gov.au

QLD
Peter Beattie
Premier
thepremier@premiers.qld.gov.au

Steve Bredhauer
Minister for Transport & Main Roads
transport@ministerial.qld.gov.au

SA
Michael Rann
Premier
ramsay@parliament.sa.gov.au

Michael Wright
Minister for Transport
lee@parliament.sa.gov.au

TAS
Jim Bacon
Premier
jim.bacon@parliament.tas.gov.au

Jim Cox
Minister for Infrastructure
jim.cox@parliament.tas.gov.au

VIC
Steve Bracks
Premier
steve.bracks@parliament.vic.gov.au

Peter Bachelor
Minister for Transport
peter.bachelor@parliament.vic.gov.au

WA
Geoff Gallop
Premier
ggallop@mp.wa.gov.au

Alannah MacTiernan
Minister for Planning & Infrastructure
amactier@mp.wa.gov.au

[IH8WRX]

I'm not sure if many people know this, however I have been helping two Griffith University students in Q.L.D. make a positive documentary into the car scene in S.E. Q.L.D. which will be on ABC T.V. later this year. It will be an hour long documentary into how it is a small minority in the car scene that perform illegal acts and yet we al suffer and are treated by the Police/Government as criminals. Treatment such as blocking major roads (the closing of the esplanade in Surfers because of us hoons), blocking carparks and Police on the roads in unmarked modified cars deliberately provoking and coercing people to race them and then confiscating their cars and issueing fines etc etc. I have been working with these guys now for nearly 1yr and they are really dedicated to showing how we are treated so unfairly by the powers to be because of a small minority.

For those attending the Q.L.D. Holden/Ford show these two guys will be there with me as they are trying to show that there are numerous organised events for use and the majority of us use them instead of performing illegal acts in the roads. I have taken them to Powecruise, on the Q.L.D. Cancer charity cruise (in the current issues of both Street Machiens Commodore mag pg 130 and Street Commodores pg 55), numerous other places and it really is taking place quiet well. Anyone that is interested by all means please contact me.

This isn't another "Today Tonight" hoon story, it's all legitimate and you will be given full legal documents to prove it and you get the final say on it as to wether it goes to air or not.

[VooDoo]

Dear Mr. Anderson,
Firstly I thank you for taking the time to read these emails. I know how busy you must be. My name is Stewart Paternoster and in addition to being someone who voted this Government, I’m also what you would class as a Motoring enthusiast. I run a popular online forum at www.########.com and participate in many others such as www.ls1.com.au . As an enthusiast I’m often discouraged by the carnage on our roads and the tragic loss of life. We have had many conversations on how to improve this and one thing that often came up was the lack of 2 way dialog between the lawmakers and politics’ and the enthusiasts on the roads who are even more interested in safety and improving conditions. Hence why I am writing to you. I realize there is no quick fix but to at least have some input would be valuable to both sides. Our car clubs do not condone ANY hooning or breaking of the laws. If we want to speed we use officially sanctioned events at Willowbank or QLD Raceway not the public streets. The situation on the Gold Coast with hooning has made many members stop visiting at all. These issues are reflected in all states and we have many 100’s of members with the same concerns.

We have put together a range of ideas and thoughts we would like to bring up. Some will be popular some wont. ALL are designed to save lives on the road.

Some of the issues that could be addressed:
- Driver licensing. Candidates need to be able to prove they can drive a car at a certain level before they are allow to use public roads. Current training is so they can pass a test, not that they have the ability or skills to drive a car. We feel ALL drivers should do a defensive drivers course and be more skilled before taking to the public streets. With the millions of dollars in revenue coming in some should be spent on improving the driving standard not in buying more cameras for more revenue.

- Pre-driver education. Kids in schools are taught how to cross the road, etc, and then the education stops there until licensing time. Why not continue this education in the school environment with the aim to have a more educated candidate come "L" plate time?

- Driver education. All drivers should be re-tested at regular intervals, and those who fail should have to successfully complete a defensive and/or advanced driver training course before regaining their license. The main basis should be driver skill/car control and driver attitude.

- Our roads. A lot of roads within Australia are in dire need of repair/replacing and, in my opinion, would be a contributing factor in the road toll. While this is addressed at all levels of government right down to local councils we fell the overall quality of our roads particularly in the country areas is very low.

- Sensible speed limits. As the level of driver skill rises, speed limits should be reviewed at regular intervals, and a system devised for speed limits to be changed to suit road conditions during the day on some roads. On open areas and good quality roads 100kmh is silly. NT has proven beyond a doubt that there method of speed limits work.

- Road signs. All road signs to be clear and concise, and in clear view of road users. Many are still covered by trees and/or Graffiti.

- speed cameras. Speed cameras should be regulated (Say 1 per 100,000 people within a given area), operators accredited and aware of operating guidelines, and each camera must be certified as serviceable and checked by an independent authority before being deployed. No permanently situated cameras. Guidelines should be reviewed and uniform across all states, and operated by an independent authority with no political influence. Revenue raising by cameras is causing more problems than its solving. Having camera 100m apart at the base of a hill taking photo’s through trees is quite beyond a joke but the drivers made to pay. There are many holes in the speed camera system that need to be addressed.

- Quota system. This system should be outlawed.

- Road laws. Should be revised so there are no "double dipping" or "discretionary" laws that can be used. To provide a system that everyone understands and knows the consequences of breaking these laws. Just because one person doesn’t like the look of a car it can be confiscated. We don’t condone hooning but some of the new laws in NSW are draconic and enables a police officer to be judge, jury and executioner.

TBC......

[VooDoo]

- Innocent until proven guilty. This right should be returned to the average road user, with the onus on government to prove guilt (eg speed camera fines).

- Roadworthiness. Cars should be roadworthied on a regular basis. Other states have it yearly. I believe this should also be done nationally to ensure our cars are safe and modified cars done legally.

- Car replacement. Govt should look into a system similar to Japan regarding subsidized car replacement to make purchasing a new car affordable for all Australians. This would assist the state/country to remove the older cars from our roads and ensure a newer safer fleet. Much like our nations population is ageing, so are our cars.


I would invite you and your ministers to join with the enthusiasts to come up with answers to our road tolls, the hooning and any other issues. We are literally “at the coal face” and want things to be improved as much as your Government. The police have a hard job to do and we support them (many are members). We do feel however that they are being used to increase the coffers of government to a degree and that better methods are available to overcome the issues before us. We would like to help you reach the goal of 0 road deaths and a safer Australia.


Stewart Paternoster
V8 Owner. LS1 Member.
0409001201
__________________________________________________ ________

Also sent to Peter Beattie and Qld Transport minister. Feel free to use this letter.

[VXEXEC350]

Lets face it people, our country is run and policed by lunatics. Here in SA they are planning on passing law that restricts the use of rainwater caught by private citizens in rainwater tanks...WTF :mad:

[plonkerchops]

Lets face it people, our country is run and policed by lunatics. Here in SA they are planning on passing law that restricts the use of rainwater caught by private citizens in rainwater tanks...WTF :mad:
well bugger me cos over here in WA its actually encouraged in most new development covenents to install a rain water tank :confused:

[VooDoo]

Thats true, but do you accept it or do you at least attempt to change it. By complying and accepting stupidity from our governments we are condoning it. They they are justified in what decisions they have made and move to the next stupid decision.

I have decided not to accept it and will attempt to make a differance. Whether it acheives anything or not remains to be seen. At least im having a go.

[plonkerchops]

Thats true, but do you accept it or do you at least attempt to change it. By complying and accepting stupidity from our governments we are condoning it. They they are justified in what decisions they have made and move to the next stupid decision.

I have decided not to accept it and will attempt to make a differance. Whether it acheives anything or not remains to be seen. At least im having a go.
nevertheless quite a poignant letter Voodoo
Its about time getting a licence was less about a god given right as seemed to be the case and more of something earned

[VXEXEC350]

Thats true, but do you accept it or do you at least attempt to change it. By complying and accepting stupidity from our governments we are condoning it. They they are justified in what decisions they have made and move to the next stupid decision.

I have decided not to accept it and will attempt to make a differance. Whether it acheives anything or not remains to be seen. At least im having a go.

I have opened my campain by sending the following email to the Premiers office;
"I cannot believe what I read in todays Sunday Mail about restrictions planned for the use of rainwater caught by private citizens. How can this possably be justified? How can you enforce this? If rain falls after 10:30am on Monday and I catch it and use it at 10:30 Tuesday morning because it is not raining...you will fine me? For water that I have caught...at my own expense...to save my usage of tap water?
Bring on the next election mate."

[VooDoo]

Tafe: Political Activist 101. Passed

good to see VXEXEC350. Just because they are in positions of power doesnt make them right.

[VXEXEC350]

Oh and to get back on topic, I have always been a vocal advocate of more comprehensive training for licencing drivers. I got my licence ay 16 and my employer put me through a driver training course run by Allan Grice and John Goss from memory. I was great fun and I went away a MUCH better driver (read safer). I play...so do you, but at well chosen times and places. On the track where possible :rolleyes:

The countrys' lunatics are taking no notice of us or motoring organisations or motor journos. Only knee jerk reactionary minorities who think that a Hyundai sprint is a spirited car and are looking forward to hybrid cars becoming affordable on a frugal budget. :bash:

[SSbaby]

Good work VooDoo!

I'll get off my soap-box on the forum and draft my own. I'm fed up with all the crap we motorists have to put up with. Time for a fundamental change.

[seldo]

Good stuff VooDoo!
I don't know whether you saw it but only a couple of weeks ago here in Bris some politician or road transport beaurocrat was quoted in the press as saying that "they did not favour advanced driving courses for young drivers as it only made them over-confident" :shock: What chance have we got with that sort of idiot calling the shots...:rolleyes:

[plonkerchops]

Good stuff VooDoo!
I don't know whether you saw it but only a couple of weeks ago here in Bris some politician or road transport beaurocrat was quoted in the press as saying that "they did not favour advanced driving courses for young drivers as it only made them over-confident" :shock: What chance have we got with that sort of idiot calling the shots...:rolleyes:

Wasnt Grant Donnington from the Road Safety Council ?, maybe hes the WA guy, hes been quoted as saying that a few times too in the past :eek:

[Nawdy]

VooDoo, well done mate. My email will be sent off soon. One person can make a difference, but having many will make it a lot easier.

[Ryzz]

Where is MikeyT, he may be able to offer some assistance here, MOTOR is frequently singing the same song we are here. A join in forces maybe??

[falcon coupe]

Great work Voodoo, it is good to see someone with the motivation to actually do something about these issues, instead of just complaining about them.

[VooDoo]

Well well well.

Got a personal email back from Mr Anderson (Federal transport minister) thanking me for my email and agreeing with many of my comments. Some he said he would take up with his state counterparts as they were state issues. He agree'ed that some policy's didnt seem to be working the way they were intended and that he is working towards an improved system (didnt expand on what that was). He would also forward my letter to the Qld minister.

[Rt!]

what a nice bloke.. at least he replied..
even 60mins didnt reply to my email re: the heat

[VooDoo]

23 June 2004


Mr S Paternoster voodoo@########.com

Dear Mr Paternoster
Thank you for your email of 7 June 2004 concerning road safety issues.
I have been requested to reply to you on the Premier's behalf.
The contents of your message have been noted.

In the event that you have not already done so, I have taken the liberty of forwarding your suggestions to the Honourable Paul Lucas MP, Minister for Transport and Main Roads for his consideration and reply direct to you.

Again, thank you for bringing your views to the Premier's attention.

Yours sincerely


Rob Whiddon
Chief of Staff

[Lani]

:eek: :confused:

Then what? Will your letter get lost in the pile of 'fan mail' now? :p

Thanks for keeping us updated!
:cheers: