Adventra - Bad News & Good News

[Bravo Brad]

got a phone call from my dealer today. He said I have bad news and good news.

He said that the bad news is Holden have dropped the price $4000
My thoughts... that would be right (having already bought one) :mad:
then he said the good news is Holden would be contacting me regarding give me a rebate of up to $4000. :D

anyone heard anything about this?

[RICHO]

Haven't heard that but its a pretty clear indication that the Adventra ain't selling at all well!!

On a brighter note however, if the V8's prices are being dropped $4k, it means the V6's when released would have to be around mid $40's which is really competitive!!!

Hope you get the $4000 rebate!!!!

[VooDoo]

Nice. That gives you the $$ for edit, suspension mods, zorst and a set of rear tyres (you will need em after the mods)

[SSbaby]

Nice. That gives you the $$ for edit, suspension mods, zorst and a set of rear tyres (you will need em after the mods)

rear tyres or all 4 tyres? :nyuk:

[BossV8]

$4000!!!

Resale will drop on any car over the course of the year, but 4 grand a matter of a couple of months after release?

[nickh]

Guys its not a matter if its not selling well or not as it is but the problem is that until the cx6 and lx6 come out the Holden product is nearly $14000 more expensive(this is based on the CX8) than the cheapest Ford Territory $38990 so if nothing all this does is brings the 2 closer...

But the only thing that disapoints me is that the Cross 8 has not recived this reduced price.which now mean the CX8 is now actully cheaper than Cross 8...WTF ... come on holden pull ur finger out..

[Kirium]

I hope this price cut hasn't come as a surprise to anyone... Adventra was obviously far more expensive then it should have been.

Good luck with that rebate tho.. :)

[EL2]

got a phone call from my dealer today. He said I have bad news and good news.

He said that the bad news is Holden have dropped the price $4000
My thoughts... that would be right (having already bought one) :mad:
then he said the good news is Holden would be contacting me regarding give me a rebate of up to $4000. :D

anyone heard anything about this?

There's a brief mention of it in todays motoring supplement in the NSW Daily Telegraph newspaper, so I'd say "Yep, you're getting $4k soon".

[Devil CV8]

There's a brief mention of it in todays motoring supplement in the NSW Daily Telegraph newspaper, so I'd say "Yep, you're getting $4k soon".
you beat me to it....

Price drop and all existing buyers will get the discount as well

[Bravo Brad]

I received a letter from holden today. It looks like a cheque is only a phone call away :D :D :D

[POLARBEAR-HSVR8]

I have jacked up my HSVR8 and stuck a cardboard wagon attachment in readiness for my $4000 cheque

[LSX-438]

I received a letter from holden today. It looks like a cheque is only a phone call away :D :D :D

put it on RED

[payaya]

I hope this price cut hasn't come as a surprise to anyone... Adventra was obviously far more expensive then it should have been.

Good luck with that rebate tho.. :)

in all honesty even with the price drop, i dont see the current spec adventra selling!

[ROGUE]

Nice. That gives you the $$ for edit, suspension mods, zorst and a set of rear tyres (you will need em after the mods)

what budget performance chain are you getting your mods from?

all that stuff you listed above cost me almost double that.... :eek:

[VooDoo]

Its called the LS1 forums For sale section

Edit $1k
Diff $1k
Suspension $850
Exhaust $1k
Tyres ....bald...Doh!!

[HSVMAN]

Cant understand why anyone would think the adventra is'nt selling. There's a waiting list if you are colour biased and to compare with Territory....... they are not even in same league, Territory is a nice car but doesnt come close to Adventra.
Anyone with a small amount of technical knowlege will attest to that.
Price drop is one of Holden Marketing's perpetual blunders. Just like releasing some models that they cant supply (cross 8 for example) :bash:
As for the mods...... exhaust will cost $1k, springs $.6k edit up to $3k and you have a stonking V8 AWD that aint even getting a sweat up!
Almost impossible to spin the wheels on the road by the way..... if you understand how the cross trac system works...... :)

[payaya]

if holden are doing well with orders etc, why drop the rrp by 4k? Doesnt make sense.

[Nobby]

....they are not even in same league
True.

...Territory is a nice car but doesnt come close to Adventra.
Anyone with a small amount of technical knowlege will attest to that.
Whoopsie. And with 1 in a row you were on a roll too. The Adventra is about as advanced as a high ride go-cart with extra luggage space. Even a Holden enthusiast would attest to that. While not faultless, the Territory is quite a good car, and unquestionable far more advanced than the Adventra.

[Aus8]

HSVMAN, While I am a Holden fan I am not ignorant nor one eyed. What makes you think the Territory doesnt come close to the Adventra? Is that because its so far infront of the Aventra in Sales?? They arent really in comparable classes IMHO. Territory seems like a great car from the short test drive I have had and by reading the reviews in MOTOR/WHEELS. I wouldnt call the Adventra a better car than the Territory at all. The Territory is a very polished package and very well engineered and should be challenging the Kluger for top spot in its class soon.

BTW upto $3000 for a edit? You kidding me?

Cheers

Aus8

[V82xist]

Cant understand why anyone would think the adventra is'nt selling. There's a waiting list if you are colour biased and to compare with Territory....... they are not even in same league, Territory is a nice car but doesnt come close to Adventra.
Anyone with a small amount of technical knowlege will attest to that.
Price drop is one of Holden Marketing's perpetual blunders. Just like releasing some models that they cant supply (cross 8 for example) :bash:
As for the mods...... exhaust will cost $1k, springs $.6k edit up to $3k and you have a stonking V8 AWD that aint even getting a sweat up!
Almost impossible to spin the wheels on the road by the way..... if you understand how the cross trac system works...... :)
I agree with you as I have driven one on/offroad and it's much more than a tarted up Commodore wagon like some people without any knowledge believe.
And yep the tune price would probably differ from the normal LS1 if you want to also make changes to the drivability using the awd software. The awd system is the same as used in the Hummer H2 but with software configuration changes to suit the Adventra. I believe Street Tuna has had a good play with one. I'd love to get one and put a super charger on it :p

[payaya]

exactly! Seriously, years ago people were totally biased, but i find people now days seem to appreciate what competitors have to offer, we are far less biased, times have changed.

I remember when i was a one eye'd ford freak, guess what? One of my female friends wanted my advice on what car to get, i told her to get a barina!

thats my point of view anyway :D

[V82xist]

imagine the adventra without the LS1?? What you guys reckon?
New V6 = Good for normal Mum's n Dad's, lower price, better fuel economy etc.
LS2 = Funtastic :D

[payaya]

yeah guess so! But too bad Ford only have the I6 to offer atm.

[Aus8]

I wonder if Ford will put the snail on the Territory? Could be interesting.

[BossV8]

I believe it's on the cards, maybe not as peformance enhanced as an XR6T but a turbo will entice more buyers. As for a V8, the 5.4's wont fit, but that doesnt necessarily mean it'll be out of the question over years to come

Adventra hasnt scored too well on comparo's, it's good that it's a V8 but most people dont see past the "tarted up wagon" exterior

[HSVMAN]

Well Aus8, apart from looking to the untrained eye like a "tarted up wagon" the Adventra has gone through significant structural & mechanical changes and Holden engineers have to be applauded. Whilst maintaining a car-like ride and seating position the Adventra, although comparing with those in a higher price league sits in a class on its own. Territory is also engineered well but compares with other SUVs like Kia Sorento and Toyota Highlander with higher riding body, power and equipment levels and handling.
Adventra maintains lower centre of gravity, V8 muscle, big car interior, high tech AWD system (based on Hummer but designed exclusively for holden), impressive ground clearance and excellent specs.
To shut up the doubters and the clearly uninformed, show me another vehicle with the same capabilities at this price?
Speaking of price - yes all early purchasers will get a refund - why they reduced has nothing to do with sales numbers (especially this early in its release) but to align future AWD models accordingly - one thing Holden have struggled with is inept marketing strategies but you wont hear anyone complaining on this one......

[RICHO]

Speaking of price - yes all early purchasers will get a refund - why they reduced has nothing to do with sales numbers (especially this early in its release) but to align future AWD models accordingly - one thing Holden have struggled with is inept marketing strategies but you wont hear anyone complaining on this one......

You must be kidding surely!??!?!?

The only reason the price has dropped is because Holden got the pricing wrong!! And sales are well below their expectations of 400 units per month.

Alignment of future AWD models?? Methinks you have been sucked in by Holden spin doctoring. The truth IMO is that poor sales of the V8 Adventra has forced a total rethink and as a result of the Adventra's POOR sales performance vs. Territory (one of it's 2 direct competitors the other being Kluger) they have been forced to drop Adventra pricing. Is that a bad thing...not in my opinion because it does mean that V6 models will be at least $4000 lower than they would have been.

Here's a hypothetical for you....If Adventra was steaming along at 400 units per month, would Holden have dropped the price?? NO!! Of course not!!

And that would have meant V6 models hitting the market at mid to high 40's as a starting point (as not even Holden could justify a $10k gap between a V6 and their V8).

Great for consumers, no doubt about that at all!! But it is definitely not a pro-active action from Holden it's purely reactive regardless of spin.

And there are other recent examples of the same, i.e. Vectra which Holden tried to price as a competitor to low level BMW's etc, as a premium vehicle competing directly with them. Did it work?? NO and Vectra (despite being a pretty bloody nice car) sales have taken a huge dive. Did trying to charge a preium price work with the Adventra?? NO and Adventra sales are well below Holden's expectations.

Holden want to be a direct competitor with Euro imports, 3 series, A4's, X5's, Tourag's etc. They have tried pricing accordingly and suffered for it in these segments. Why?? It sure isn't because the products aren't good enough, it DEFINITELY isn't because the quality isn't there (have you drive a pugeot??). It is purely and simply because ATM there are too many brand snobs in Australia who value appearance and badge over substance.

Holden have tried to break that perception and failed to date, in fact both Ford and Holden deserve to break that barrier with both Territory & Adventra. They're being stopped by a level of Brand perception, which is dead wrong. Unlike Ford however at least Holden have tried!! Eventually they'll succeed but it's a way off yet!!

Personally I think it should be made legal to touch park any high end euro provided your driving an Australian built car!!!! But I'm a little more radical than some!!

:thumbsup:

[BA Turbo]

Holden have only sold 1300 + something Adventuraa since it was released in October last year. Ford sold that many Territorys in June.

Now tell me its not done as a knee-jerk reaction to sales!

As far as the 4WD system, I thought the Territory and Adventura both used the same Bosch system, but the Ford one was a generation newer and some extra features (ie the electronics handled complex surfaces like loose gravel and dirt better) that was not available in the Holden set up.

Credit where credit is due, the Territory is a whole different class of vehicle!

[Red CV8 R]

I dont know alot about these types of cars but was watching the car show on the weekend with a big test of these cars and they seemed to be more favorable to the Adventra then the Teritory, it seems they were suprised by the Adventra and disapointed by the Teritory (esp the ride height it seems). The Klugger was the clear winner in their comparison. They really liked the Ford RV ute they used as a support car though!

[SSbaby]

I think a few punches are being thrown quite unnecessarily, IMO.

I don't think Holden ever intended to have Adventra compete head-on with the Territory. First year sales projections for Adventra ranged from 3-5000 units. Ford were far more optimistic with their 25-35,000 units per year. How is that direct comparable? It's not!

The respective cars have been pitched at slightly different targets. If anything, I think it is Ford that need to maintain the strong sales and that could prove to be difficult once the Territory's novelty has worn off. Holden are just gearing up with their 'AWD wagon' with the imminent arrival of the V6 - sales will gradually improve, but I don't think there will be many Territory conquest sales as they are totally different vehicles.

Just as a side note, for decades Statesman was outsold by Fairlane and LTD almost by a ratio of 4:1. It wasn't until the early 90s when Holden finally introduced the V6 into Statesman/Caprice that they finally overtook their cross-town rival for sales dominance in the luxury segment. :D Australians love their V8s like no other time but continue to buy 6s.

[Venom XR]

...high tech AWD system (based on Hummer but designed exclusively for holden)

BA Turbo is correct. The AWD system used by Holden uses Bosch 5.3 technology, which was developed in the mid-90s. The Terri uses the the very latest Bosch 8.0 tech. Facts, not opinion.

HSVMAN's comparison of the Terri with a Kia Sorrento is a typical one-eyed attempt at an insult, seeing as it was built to match BMW X5 levels of performance - and if you are to believe Wheels deputy-editor, does it better than the X5, the Porsche and other similar vehicles. Though that's opinion isn't it?

But that facts are, as everyone has said without bias, both are well executed vehicles in similar classes but with unique attributes.

The sales figures for Adventra however, despite what you think HSVMAN, suggest it isn't selling - waiting list for a colour option or not. Sales numbers also suggest, as you said, that they are not in the same league - as a volume selling car that is.

SSbaby, I think Ford epsecially are banking on that market segment to entrench itself as a consistantly sizable portion of monthly car sales. If Toy-motor can sell thousands of $50K+ Prados and Land Cruisers, a portion of which will only see bitumen (as opposed to those actually used off-road), then why not sell a couple of thousand Terris and Adventras (when they do V6s) a month?

[RICHO]

I think a few punches are being thrown quite unnecessarily, IMO.

I don't think Holden ever intended to have Adventra compete head-on with the Territory. First year sales projections for Adventra ranged from 3-5000 units. Ford were far more optimistic with their 25-35,000 units per year. How is that direct comparable? It's not!
.

I kind of disagree with you there SSbaby. I don't think those volume differences reflect that the two cars are intended for different markets, rather I think it reflects Holden's position in the marketplace, their level of exports and their capacity to deliver high Adventra volumes.

Ford produces utes (no crewcabs), the falcon range (including LWB) and now the Territory. With no export program to speak of the Territory is a key model for Ford with Falcon running at about 6000 units a month on average, ute at about 1800 Ford need to Territory to sell at the 1400-1500 unit level to keep production running at full capacity. Accordingly, it has been priced accordingly and developed with a RWD model.

Holden on the other hand will be delivery what 20,000 GTO's to the US, a few 10's of thousands of vehicles to the Middle East, selling 7,000 Commodores per month, 1800 or so utes and crewman models. If you do the maths, I doubt Holden could or rather need to sell the Adventra at the same rate as a Territory. Holden quite simply have a more globally focused business plan, are building more models and their focus no longer lies exclusively on the Australian market.

Personally, I think the two cars are direct competitors in terms of intended market and features. Different volume targets don't mean that the cars are not competitors, all it indicates to me is that Ford have a whole lot more riding on Territory than Holden do on the Adventra. And in the longer term...that may well be a significant positive for Adventra come resale time.

Just my opinion anyway

[Ghia351]

Speaking of price - yes all early purchasers will get a refund - why they reduced has nothing to do with sales numbers (especially this early in its release) but to align future AWD models accordingly - one thing Holden have struggled with is inept marketing strategies but you wont hear anyone complaining on this one......

ROFL....did you swallow the Holden press release...even a true blue Ford Fan would say that Holden has led the field when it comes to marketing. Case in point with VXII is the addition of the "control link" to improve handling and reduce tyre wear, when in actual fact they put back a component that they decided not to include with the original design from Opel at the release of VT.

[LSX-438]

as nick says we really have to wait for the new CX/LX6, and give it some time before casting judgement based on these early sales numbers.

[BA Turbo]

Personally, I think the two cars are direct competitors in terms of intended market and features. Different volume targets don't mean that the cars are not competitors, all it indicates to me is that Ford have a whole lot more riding on Territory than Holden do on the Adventra. And in the longer term...that may well be a significant positive for Adventra come resale time.

Just my opinion anyway

I think we have to agree to disagree on them being direct competitors or not, but an outstanding, non-biased post, and I agree 100% with your sentiments about the importance of the Territory.

BA Turbo

[seldo]

I think we have to agree to disagree on them being direct competitors or not, but an outstanding, non-biased post, and I agree 100% with your sentiments about the importance of the Territory.

BA Turbo
I think the Adventra was a low-budget deliberate attempt by Holden to just muddy the waters for Ford and to create conflict in the market place. As soon as they heard the T was coming they cobbled up what they could from the existing model range and added AWD to justify the exercise. I don't really think Holden ever thought that Adventra would seriously challenge the T for market leadership because i think T was always just going to pinch a bit of market-share from all the other manufacturers who make these big AWD/4WD wagons that never get their tyres dirty and are really just used as big family hacks. Just count how many women you see driving Cruisers, Patrols, Pajeros, Prados etc etc. It seems that almost every manufacturer has at least a couple of these big wagons in their line-up, and that, despite their 4wd capability are really just used as shopping/school hacks. I am also convinced that a good part of their appeal is psychological in that the drivers feel safe because they sit up high above all the traffic and they are told by the advertising that they are bullet-proof and therefore very safe. What's the bet that if the T is the market success that i suspect it will be (look at the US market of those types of vehicles) that Holden will have to come up with something similar, and the Adventra will never be that car. No matter how good it is , it will not fill the same role and will always be seen as just another version of the Commodore wagon. JMHO

[LSX-438]

It seems that almost every manufacturer has at least a couple of these big wagons in their line-up, and that, despite their 4wd capability are really just used as shopping/school hacks.

Have to agree there... wank factor is a big factor unfortunately.

only time will tell if holden spending a fraction vs ford on the fashionable 4/AWD segment is a wise decision. At the moment they are both convinced this is where the futures lies, for me........ boring.

[Drizt]

Have to agree there... wank factor is a big factor unfortunately.

only time will tell if holden spending a fraction vs ford on the fashionable 4/AWD segment is a wise decision. At the moment they are both convinced this is where the futures lies, for me........ boring.

yeap my sentiments exactly.. boring
toyota is a huge success, surpassed ford as second biggest motor company and are on their way to topling the all might GM... BUT ............... toyotas are extremely boring, i cant think of the last exciting NEW toyota... (are they ever gonna build another supra ?????)

if GM and ford take a page out of toyotas book and begin to make boring safe designs ill :spew:

[Aus8]

HSVMAN: Whoever told you that the Adventra has a superior 4x4 system to the Terriotory is most definitely wrong. I checked what systems were being used and the Adventra does use the outdated 5.3 Bosch system compared to the Bosch version 8.0 in the Territory. Dont believe Holdens Markerting. Make your own investigations.

I believe the cars are in different markets. I was just objecting your comment of "Adventra is superior to Territory" and then your ill-informed view that it had some sort of extra special 4x4 system that is miles more advanced of the Territory's, which is incorrect.

Aus8

PS. Are you on Holdens payroll? One of your posts above looked like a cut and paste from their Adventra Marketing. :bow: :bow::bow::bow::bow:

[Ghia351]

HSVMAN: Whoever told you that the Adventra has a superior 4x4 system to the Terriotory is most definitely wrong. I checked what systems were being used and the Adventra does use the outdated 5.3 Bosch system compared to the Bosch version 8.0 in the Territory. Dont believe Holdens Markerting. Make your own investigations.

I believe the cars are in different markets. I was just objecting your comment of "Adventra is superior to Territory" and then your ill-informed view that it had some sort of extra special 4x4 system that is miles more advanced of the Territory's, which is incorrect.

Aus8

PS. Are you on Holdens payroll? One of your posts above looked like a cut and paste from their Adventra Marketing. :bow: :bow::bow::bow::bow:

If I remember rightly Ford have a slight time period from Bosch before other manufacturers can use this system as payback for working with Bosch to develop it.

[HSVMAN]

I applaud those who take the time to investigate technicalities! Well done! yes the Ford uses the later version of the bosh system. And yes Holden Oz's Adv Sales are less than the forecast 400 per month however they never intended this vehicle to be a volume vehicle and they did get the pricing wrong as someone said earlier.
The Adventra is a mighty fine vehicle and yes it is a bloody sight different to a Territory!! But who really cares? I have owned both makes for years and HSV are really the icing on the cake!
One thing Holden did not do was quickly scratch together the Adv. AWD has been in the cooking pot for years with both manufacturers (Ford and Holden). I think we will be seeing a lot more from Holden with more AWD models (like Cross8 and HSV Coupe4 & XUV) to choose from and apart from the token city AWD drivers as mentioned earlier AWD will be mass marketed as technology allows it - for safety above all else.

[Red CV8 R]

As long as Holden make performance orientated versions of the AWD platform (say an AWD 5.7litre 6 speed SS :D ) I dont care how the Adventra sells!

Just dont make them to heavy! ;)

[SSbaby]

Well, I just reckon Holden are giving consumers a sample of AWD technology, before offering it as an option across all Commodore derivatives. Adventra is more about the AWD system. Territory is more about a new vehicle and is more sales dependant.

[HSVMAN]

did you see the SSX concept car? say no more....... imagine 6 litres of LS2 grunt to all fours.....

[ssberlina]

This thread seems to have got off track somewhat. How come all the adventra threads are always full of the ford vs holden crap.

Ford guys get over it. Holden havent geared it to compete with the territory, it isnt in the same price bracket ($50,000 vs $39000) nor does it have a similar engine arrangement. (V8 vs I6)

Holden dont need it as a volume seller and are not marketing that way and ford are and that good for them. But it is also replacing their wagon I believe so they need to pick up these sales first before it becomes a hit.

Now lets back to the topic or start your own Adventra bashing thread and see what happens.

[RICHO]

This thread seems to have got off track somewhat. How come all the adventra threads are always full of the ford vs holden crap.

AGREED, but then I like to think I post in a pretty open minded fashion

Ford guys get over it. Holden havent geared it to compete with the territory, it isnt in the same price bracket ($50,000 vs $39000) nor does it have a similar engine arrangement. (V8 vs I6)

WHATEVER!! ATM Adventra is V8 only, but if it was never intended to compete there would be no V6 version on the way, nor would there have been a price drop. V8 Adventra is now $48-49k for a CX8, so V6's should come in around mid $40's and that is ABSOLUTELY the same price bracket the Territory

Holden dont need it as a volume seller and are not marketing that way and ford are and that good for them. But it is also replacing their wagon I believe so they need to pick up these sales first before it becomes a hit.

AGREED 100% refer to my earlier post. Ford definitely have a whole lot more riding on the success of the Territory

Now lets back to the topic or start your own Adventra bashing thread and see what happens.

Now this Topic was "ADVENTRA - Bad News & Good News" and it focused on a $4000.00 price drop on the Adventra, play ostich if you like but how could you possibly discuss that without discussing the cars competitors?? Or was the purpose of the thread to simply reassure Holden marketing who I am sure are sitting back relived that at least a few people have bought into the spin. As for starting a new thread........I'd rather chat here in a crowd with, in some cases, very different opinions to myself, more interesting, and more informative. I actually support diversity of opinion (if constructive!) if you don't think I fit that bill, let me know I may well have crossed a line. At the very least it will probably make me think more before I post next time

:cheers:

[Venom XR]

This thread seems to have got off track somewhat. How come all the adventra threads are always full of the ford vs holden crap.

Ford guys get over it. Holden havent geared it to compete with the territory, it isnt in the same price bracket ($50,000 vs $39000) nor does it have a similar engine arrangement. (V8 vs I6)

Holden dont need it as a volume seller and are not marketing that way and ford are and that good for them. But it is also replacing their wagon I believe so they need to pick up these sales first before it becomes a hit.

Now lets back to the topic or start your own Adventra bashing thread and see what happens.

Wake up ssberlina. The first use of the word Territory was by - a Holden-owning member, nickh. The second use of it was by another Holden-owning member, HSVMAN, who began the Ford vs Holden rubbish by sprouting misinformed gibberish.

Target your whinge at those who deserve it.

[ssberlina]

I think we hit a nerve. :stick: First we have a thread in bold so that we notice it is there and then I am told to wake up. All because I stated that the tread was getting off topic. Very mature Gentlemen.

The thing here is that I dont think that the territory is a bad thing nor do I think the adventra is the best thing since sliced bread. In fact, I applaud ford and hope they have a winner.

I entered the thread because I am getting very sick of the bitch slapping on here instead of any constructive comments, be it from either camp. Sorry to pick on the ford people on this "Holden" site, if that makes you feel better. :confused:

Seriously if Holden wanted to compete against the territory then they would have brought it out in a six and started the price at around $40,000, and last time I looked they havent done that.

They lowered the price by $4,000 big deal, I would have liked $10,000 hey but maybe I am greedy. But if they did then Ford would really have something to worry about.

[PJK]

Anyone considered that the Adventra CX8 is now cheaper than a Berlina V8 wagon which has same sort of specs, but you are actually getting more for your money now with Adventra. Dealers will probably start giving good discounts on SS wagons too now :D

[BA Turbo]

SSBerlina,

I have only been scouring this site for about two months now. Those last two posts of yours are the mis-informed I have ever read.

The entire point of the discusion was the price drop, we were discussing what may have caused it. How much more ON TOPIC can you get?

I am really sorry if we annoyed you or typed something you didn't like.

Oh, and if next time I purchase a new vehicle the Holden is a better car (IMO) then I will buy it, so please no accusations of Ford bias.

Regards,

BA Turbo

[ssberlina]

[QUOTE=BA Turbo]

[I have only been scouring this site for about two months now. Those last two posts of yours are the mis-informed I have ever read.]

Which parts of the post are misinformed? The parts about the Territory being a good thing, or the part that Ford need to see more of them to break even? or was it that you agreed at the personal attack by some of posters. If you do not consider yourself to be biased then why do you consider it your responsiblity to defend them and their comments. Obviously I wasnt having a go at you, because you are not biased.

[The entire point of the discusion was the price drop, we were discussing what may have caused it. How much more ON TOPIC can you get?]

This wasnt what I was complaining about, it is was the personal attacks on some of the people posting, as I have had to now suffer rather than the real reason of the price drop. Yes I had a go at your maturity, and I am sorry to have dropped to the level of this thread. I again apologise. :rolleyes: Go back and read the threads again.

[I am really sorry if we annoyed you or typed something you didn't like.]

No not really just all the insults instead of a educated debate.

[Oh, and if next time I purchase a new vehicle the Holden is a better car (IMO) then I will buy it, so please no accusations of Ford bias.]

I am glad to hear it but why again raise it unless unless my comments were directed at you which obviously they were not. It wasnt the ford bias, it was the thread was about the adventra and most of the later posts were the ford crew ramming the advantages of the territory down the throat of everyone and ripping into anyone who had the alternative opinion. I am not biased either way but come on this is a Holden site you have to expect that some people will get upset at some of the comments. I may surprise you that I am also a member of lots of the ford forums and drive a ford as well as the CV8, but again I think that this thread was getting out of hand. Agree or disagree.

[seldo]

This cat-fight is getting very boring

[Aus8]

SSBerlina, I think you have totally missed the point but life goes on eh :thumbsup:

[BA Turbo]

SSBerlina, I think you have totally missed the point but life goes on eh :thumbsup:

Amen, I'm not sure we even read the same thread. Anyway as a newbie, I'll just go away for a while and let things cool down.

[V82xist]

I laugh everytime I read stuff comparing a sleek sporty V8 powered awd like the Adventra to the chubby slab sided plain jane Territory with it's 6cyl engine that sounds like a vacuum cleaner. No wonder the Ford boys are upset, we get the supermodel and they get the fat cow...once again :p
Ford probably got the beta version of the latest software too :D So when the say "test drive" they really mean it :lol:

[Ghia351]

I laugh everytime I read stuff comparing a sleek sporty V8 powered awd like the Adventra to the chubby slab sided plain jane Territory

That's Adventra, as in built in S.A. by Holden you're talking about. Last time I heard the word sleek applied to a car it was a Merc SL500 or similar ilk. You obvioulsy love the Lion badged cars :stick: Just hope the fog from your excited breath is not clouding things up top!

[V82xist]

That's Adventra, as in built in S.A. by Holden you're talking about. Last time I heard the word sleek applied to a car it was a Merc SL500 or similar ilk. You obvioulsy love the Lion badged cars :stick: Just hope the fog from your excited breath is not clouding things up top!
And you think it's strange to find a Holden lover on a LS1 and Holden forum :confused: but think it's normal for Ford guys to frequent a Holden forum....right....it's ok really, I won't treat you special...just like any normal person ok :lol:

[Ghia351]

And you think it's strange to find a Holden lover on a LS1 and Holden forum :confused: but think it's normal for Ford guys to frequent a Holden forum....right....it's ok really, I won't treat you special...just like any normal person ok :lol:

No...just that you think the Adventra is sleek..don't read into it too much, i do like the occasional light hearted jibes as Devil CV8 may attest. If we have to get all serious, I frequent this forum because I find most here mature, able to hold a debate for longer before a slanging match occurs and i get to learn about a brand of car I don't know too much about. And if i wasn't welcome the mods would have p***ed me off along time ago. Don't worry, I won't pop into your house for a coffee, your brand is obviously too bitter :stick:

[BossV8]

No...just that you think the Adventra is sleek..don't read into it too much, i do like the occasional light hearted jibes as Devil CV8 may attest. If we have to get all serious, I frequent this forum because I find most here mature, able to hold a debate for longer before a slanging match occurs and i get to learn about a brand of car I don't know too much about. And if i wasn't welcome the mods would have p***ed me off along time ago. Don't worry, I won't pop into your house for a coffee, your brand is obviously too bitter :stick:

hahaha :lol: good call!

[V82xist]

No...just that you think the Adventra is sleek..don't read into it too much, i do like the occasional light hearted jibes as Devil CV8 may attest. If we have to get all serious, I frequent this forum because I find most here mature, able to hold a debate for longer before a slanging match occurs and i get to learn about a brand of car I don't know too much about. And if i wasn't welcome the mods would have p***ed me off along time ago. Don't worry, I won't pop into your house for a coffee, your brand is obviously too bitter :stick:
Where did I say you weren't welcome? I think you need to lighten up and not take life so seriously. Also when I'm serving coffee to Ford fans I always make it obvious which is the cup of coffee and which is the soya sauce so you'd be ok :p

[Ghia351]

Where did I say you weren't welcome? I think you need to lighten up and not take life so seriously. Also when I'm serving coffee to Ford fans I always make it obvious which is the cup of coffee and which is the soya sauce so you'd be ok :p

Why would you keep soy sauce in a coffee cup, I'll let you have the last word, you might feel happier tomorrow.

[Patrick]

The Adventra is obviously well engineered and I am sure is very good at what it was designed for, but a soft-roader vehicle will always have limitations off-road and therefor inherently compromised.

I seriously doubt these so-called soft roaders are that popular, in fact they are over-rated and under-done.

The Toyota Kluger is in fact Toyota's least popular SUV selling at half the rate of the Landcruiser, Prado and Rav4.

The Ford Territory is selling below target as well. This vehicle was targeted to sell 2,000 a month. Ford sold just over a 1,000 in May and just over 1,300 in June and alot of them were dealer registered demo's and Ford factory program registered Territory's.
I seriously doubt Ford will reach their target, to do so they would have to outsell the popular Toyota Prado which sells around 1,600 per month.
I think Ford will struggle and at what expense, Falcon? Holden have a new Commodore just around the corner too!

I am not surprised Holden has now reduced the price of the Adventra, it is not selling to expectations either. The V6 version will help but I don't see much improvement. To be honest, I think the soft-roader market is over-rated and not the bonanza the car companies or media had pushed for.

Holden needs a proper line-up of small, medium and large SUV's if it wants to take the fight up to Toyota and the Adventra ain't it.

[RATT]

I seriously doubt these so-called soft roaders are that popular, in fact they are over-rated and under-done.

The Toyota Kluger is in fact Toyota's least popular SUV selling at half the rate of the Landcruiser, Prado and Rav4.

The Ford Territory is selling below target as well. This vehicle was targeted to sell 2,000 a month. Ford sold just over a 1,000 in May and just over 1,300 in June and alot of them were dealer registered demo's and Ford factory program registered Territory's.
I seriously doubt Ford will reach their target, to do so they would have to outsell the popular Toyota Prado which sells around 1,600 per month.
I think Ford will struggle and at what expense, Falcon? Holden have a new Commodore just around the corner too!

I am not surprised Holden has now reduced the price of the Adventra, it is not selling to expectations either. The V6 version will help but I don't see much improvement. To be honest, I think the soft-roader market is over-rated and not the bonanza the car companies or media had pushed for.

Holden needs a proper line-up of small, medium and large SUV's if it wants to take the fight up to Toyota and the Adventra ain't it.


The soft roader market is one of the fastest growing markets in the business and that's why there are so many out there. That's why Adventra is out there.

Ford target started at 1200 (approx) for the first month and 2000 by the end of 2004. The target is so far being achieved. Demand for the Territory Ghia is much higher than supply and there is still the midspec TS to be released in September. Most of those dealer demos? There would be around 400 of them around the country and most were regestered in May anyway.

[Aus8]

Patrick, You will probably find that the Territory expectations of 2000 were not expected straight out of the box. I think I read that thats what they are aiming for after the first year. I think it will be capable of about 1700-1800 ish a month personally. You will be surprised at the growth of this market. The market will eat into Falcon and Commodore's for sure as the cars are very family orientated and very versatile. I expect Adventra to change up a gear when the V6 is out but not at the rate of the Terriorty. Should be interesting to watch. I do think give it 6 months and there will be more Territorys being sold than Prado's every month. Big call I know, But lets wait and see. Could be very interesting to see a Territory with a snail aswell. On the cards apparently.

Me Personally, Ill stick to my SS until around 2006 when the new model Falcon and Commodore are rumored to be quite revolutionary..

Dont forget the BAII release very shortly.

Cheers

Aus8

[LSX-438]

To be honest, I think the soft-roader market is over-rated and not the bonanza the car companies or media had pushed for.

I agree. The I'm sick of hearing these cars are the most significant things to be developed since sliced bread. At best they're playing catch-up on a highly fashion driven segment. The only significance is catching missed sales, i see it as a fickle market that could turn around on them.

[RICHO]

Adventra a supermodel??!?!?

Well......we should all rush out and buy one then!!! I've always wanted to get my hands on a supermodel......unfortunately to date it appears they really just are not interested in either Falcon or Commodore drivers.....

Now if I had a "sleek sporty V8 powered" car like an SL500.....maybe I'd stand a chance!! Until they saw my paycheque that is.........

[Spectrum]

There seems to be a lot of parochialism-motivated criticism of the Adventra from certain quarters, so I'll put in my perspective as an Adventra LX8 owner.

I looked at buying a sedan before the Adventra was released, and had never considered any 4WD before then: the exception being the AUDI QUATTRO. However, when I seriously though about buying a 4WD, i knew it was not going to be any of the monstrosities so common now: I wanted something with ALL-Wheel Drive which handled like a sedan, looked good, and functional. Looked at the Subarus and just as quickly discarded them (too small for me and too attractive to car thieves). Looked at specs of Territory, but it looked like any other 4WD out there: didn't seriously look at the high-priced Euro models as they are out of my budget.

In the end, I bought the Adventra because I liked it as an all-round package which met my requirements: handling, performance, functionality, size, and looks. I couldn't drive and enjoy a Territory at all, because it doesn't appeal to me: the only thing good about it is the price, and I suspect this is where it's getting a lot of its sales.

My LX8 is highly unlikely to be used in any off-roading, simply because it is not an off-roader. By the same token, I'd like to see true-blue offroaders try to take corners on sealed roads at the speeds the Adventra allows me to, without doing some unintentional off-roading. I love my LX8...and from my perspective, the price of any vehicle is governed only by market forces, and by the desires of those who prefer function over fantasy. I paid whatever I did for my LX8 because I accepted it as good value. Now that Holden is giving some of it back, I'm even happier.

Most of the criticisms seem to be an academic pissing contest: folks, it doesn't mean squat to those of us who own Adventras. Give it a rest will ya'?!

[RICHO]

Best post on this thread to date bar none!!

Enjoy the LX8.....Which IMO is probably a better bit of kit for your needs and the $$ than the audi anyway.
:cheers: :cheers:

[HSVMAN]

The only bitter comments seem to be coming from the ford lads I'm afraid! :( Guys, I own both and have done for years.... I bought a V8 Explorer 18 months ago because i thought it was a good deal, i wont even begin to tell you how long I've actually had it on the road although it is fun cos its big black and noisy :cool: - but lacks grunt.
Before that had V6 explorer and what piece of sh#t that turned out to be :eek: although when we bought it I thought it was the cats PJ's.
Now i can drive a Holden V8 AWD beast and love it! yes it is sleak and so is the Adventra it's based on - just not in the same manner you would call a merc sleek and most of those are plain boring.
Yes the territory is rather plain jane, sorry lads. I love that supermodel/fat cow description :lol:
If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!! :booty:

[Zantetsuken]

Another quality post from HSVMAN.... :rolleyes:

I don't own either of the vehicles, but I can say that the Territory is replacing the Falcon wagon - it is designed as a mainstream vehicle and not as a low volume sales sweetener.

Because of that, you are always going to get "plain jane" base models that won't look as nice as a more exclusive vehicle. The Commodore is a good example of this. The HSV GTS and the Executive are both Commodores, so I find it hard to say that the Territory is another wannabe BMW X5 or Porsche Cayenne, even if it has been compared to such vehicles in terms of handling or whatever it was that Motor magazine was going on about.

I think you will find this post reasonable, and I am a Ford driver. Amazing huh.

On the original subject of the thread, I hope these Adventra owners are putting this money back into their car loans (those that have them) or they will be feeling it when it comes time to trade it in and find they owe 4 grand more than the going resale value (you know what I mean, different situations will have different circumstances but you get my drift).

Tim

[Swordie]

I have sat in both the Adventra and Territory. I find the Holden is much more to my liking, the seat is lower to the ground and it slides further back. The Ford reminds me of a Pajero, the seat is high off the ground.

If I was considering an Adventra I would be waiting the 6cyl. I had a drive of the V8 on the weekend and it does seem hugely more powerful than the V6 3.8. I find the 3.8 has plenty of power for what I do. 2WD is quite adequate road driving.

[Spectrum]

Another quality post from HSVMAN.... :rolleyes:

I don't own either of the vehicles.....the Territory is another wannabe BMW X5 or Porsche Cayenne,

.. and I am a Ford driver. Tim You didn't have to admit that you were a Ford driver for your slant to come through in you post. And thanks for the advice, but I wouldn't worry about what we Adventra owners will do with our rebates from Holden.
:cool:

[Aus8]

HSVMAN, 90% of the Ford guys are not here to s**t stir, but to offer valued opinions and views from the otherside of the fence just like the LS1 members who are on fordforums.com and fordxr6turboforums.com. From what I can see, most of the bitter comments are coming from new members jumping on their high horse!

Aus8

[IIV8II]

I have sat in both the Adventra and Territory. I find the Holden is much more to my liking, the seat is lower to the ground and it slides further back. The Ford reminds me of a Pajero, the seat is high off the ground.

If I was considering an Adventra I would be waiting the 6cyl. I had a drive of the V8 on the weekend and it does seem hugely more powerful than the V6 3.8. I find the 3.8 has plenty of power for what I do. 2WD is quite adequate road driving.

I don't reckon you tried putting the Territory's electric seat height adjust all the way down.. It has the biggest range of height adjustment I've ever seen, All the way down, it is almost hard to see over the steering wheel..

[who_me_?]

Anyone noticed that it is now cheaper to buy a base Adventura than a V8 Berlina wagon ????

As probably the only X5 driver on here, you may be surprised to hear that I will be seriously considering getting a V6 Adventura when they come out.

I like the X5 a lot but don't like the size of the loadbay or the lack of dealers and the cost upkeep (not to mention the depreciation...)

The V8 would be nice but the transmission is from the '80's and you soon become the friend of the service station with that small tank...

[Swordie]

I don't reckon you tried putting the Territory's electric seat height adjust all the way down.. It has the biggest range of height adjustment I've ever seen, All the way down, it is almost hard to see over the steering wheel..

You are correct. My only sit in the car was at the Melbourne Car Show.

[HSVMAN]

You are correct. My only sit in the car was at the Melbourne Car Show.
Yes the Territory does have ample front seat adjustment however lacks space in rear. And it is taking sales away from Falcon Wagon I'm told but maybe thats something they knew would happen.
Adventra V6 will be a good seller I think as a few I know are put off by the V8 but I'm a V8 fan from way back.
I agree with 'Spectrum' 100%!!

[Ghia351]

HSVMAN, 90% of the Ford guys are not here to s**t stir, but to offer valued opinions and views from the otherside of the fence just like the LS1 members who are on fordforums.com and fordxr6turboforums.com. From what I can see, most of the bitter comments are coming from new members jumping on their high horse!

Aus8

I might have been the same when I first joined....time and experience once you get to know the other forum members soon changes things.

[Zantetsuken]

You didn't have to admit that you were a Ford driver for your slant to come through in you post. And thanks for the advice, but I wouldn't worry about what we Adventra owners will do with our rebates from Holden.
:cool:

I am not too worried about it, but if you quote someone, quote the whole line - you chopped one of my quotes up and it now sounds like the total opposite thing.

As for the rebate issue, I was raising a valid point but apparently they are not needed here.

Tim

[Zantetsuken]

Yes the Territory does have ample front seat adjustment however lacks space in rear. And it is taking sales away from Falcon Wagon I'm told but maybe thats something they knew would happen.

Not only was it something they knew, but planned for. The wagon was always going to be dropped from the Falcon range to be replaced by the Territory. Just for info.

Tim

[IIV8II]

Now that the Australian government has turned its back on the environmental benefits of LPG (Which tha wagon can be optioned with and the Territory can't - now or ever due to body/chassis packaging) sadly that is now more than likely true

[Ghia351]

Now that the Australian government has turned its back on the environmental benefits of LPG (Which tha wagon can be optioned with and the Territory can't - now or ever due to body/chassis packaging) sadly that is now more than likely true

O/T and no-one has really kicked up a fuss yet. In my case the new VW T5 van will not be covered by factory warranty if you convert the engine to duel fuel, they really want you to buy the Tdi models. I thought about the e-gas BA wagon when I bought that back in 1/'03 however having driven a T/ghia, I wouldn't buy a Futura wagon again.