'Lexus' SC400

[LSX-438]

A friend has their heart set on one of these grey imports.

Anyone owned one or otherwise have opinions, anything to look out for?

[Kirium]

My mum was considering buying one at one stage but was warned away from getting one by a guy who imports them who she does some accounting work for... Don't remember why exactly tho...

[SPJ]

Mate got one...
Not bad, Not my kind of thing though...A Merc SL would be much better...

[XLR8 V8]

Nice Quad cam V8 engine, nice gearbox, nice seats, nice stereo

The miriad of electrics throughout the car though, is a financial disaster waiting to happen ..... the fully electronic LCD dash is a known component to fail, and VERY expensive to fix. And when it does fail, you need to get it fixed quickly, because you don't know how fast you're going, coolant temp, RPM, fuel level etc.
Oh, and I hope they are friendly with their insurance company ... 'cause they tend to be expensive to insure, and even more expensive to repair.

[LX346]

I have a SC300 (3.0L 6cylinder) same car, 1994 model, 21 yo driver, full comprehensive insurance $800. In Sydney

Bet its cheaper then most 40 year olds with LS1's.

BTW car is great, cheap to run, smooth and never misses a beat.

PM me if you want a good recommendation on quality SC300/400's.

[XLR8 V8]

I have a SC300 (3.0L 6cylinder) same car, 1994 model, 21 yo driver, full comprehensive insurance $800. In Sydney

Bet its cheaper then most 40 year olds with LS1's.

Of course it is ... it's a SC300 with a 3.0L 6cyl engine
Try getting a quote on insurance for an SC400 which has either a 4.0L V8 or a Turbo 6. You'll find it's a helluva lot dearer for you IF they will offer you insurance at all.

[XLR8 V8]

Here's a couple of links for him too ... bottom of the first one shows problems to look out for. Second one has a good Q & A

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/reviews/reviewstory.asp?ID=4225

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/startrade/FAQ/FAQ.html

[LSX-438]

i appreciate the info i'll pass it on

[LX346]

No problems getting insurance on a 4.0L V8. I drive them all day every day for work.

I just got the SC300 as it was more affordable for me, I personally don't like the 4.0L V8 as in standard form they are an average motor which are sluggish.

Twin turbo I would have a high premium but V8 was a few hundred $$ more.

It's all about who you know.

BTW when I was 18 I had my VS Statesman 5.0L, insured for $20k at a $1,000 per annun premium, full comprehensive insurance under my name. This is in Sydney parked on the street btw. With a $400 excess.

forrestd send me a PM if your friend would like any good recommendations, I can't publicly promote the business on here so send me a PM and I'll pass on a contact number. They can come around, test drive, get NRMA inspection, I'll even stick one up on a hoist for them if they would like to inspect underneath. Got nothing to hide.

[Speedy Gonzales]

Awesome cars in terms of build quality and ride, was going to get 1 as a daily driver, is luxo tho performance wise, bit lacking unless you have the TT version. Most expensive aspect would be replacing electronic features or the TEMS suspension, anything else, pretty much as any other sports car.

[dogwatch2]

Ive had a 1991 Soarer twin turbo auto for a couple of years and it's a great car, very reliable. It's standard and is a touch quicker than my 03 SV8 auto. The SC400 4litre V8 is a really nice engine and goes forever if looked after and is supposedly very easy on fuel on the HWY. It's best to buy one without the airbag suspension and TV screen. Parts are easy to get. They handle OK, they are a bit nose heavy but ride and handle well overall. Buy one privately or through a direct importer of the Net, to save money.

[Grant]

A friend has their heart set on one of these grey imports.

Anyone owned one or otherwise have opinions, anything to look out for?

All you need to know, including how to fix most common problems is here at www.planetsoarer.com.

I was thinking about getting one myself and supercharging it. There is a kit based on the locally developed TerraCharger from Yella Terra.

Insurance, at least for me (just turned 25) was quite cheap at about $1200 for a GT-Limited with body kit, mags etc.

You can get a car, warranty and support form companies such as Kamikazi Motors.

[Martin_D]

Ahem....
Door trims crack.....ON ALL OF THEM......both sides
Dashes fail, but can be fixed
Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator
Diffs break regularly if you pound them
Engines get rattly after a while (about as noisy as a new LS1)
Autos can crap themselves, but they are only a fairly basic thing
Suspension if its airbag or active can flog out
Interior plastics are generally all rooted, as is the leather
Without fail they stink of Japanese cigarette/BO mix
Carpets are ALWAYS stained
Speedos are knocked without fail
Headlights leak and go yellow

Other than that.......GREAT!

[HRT Stroker]

But get the twin turbo thing, whack some decent snails on it and ram 20 psi into it and it goes well too eh Martin????

[LX346]

Out of the last 100 or so I've seen come thru our shop the only problem I have seen from Tuna's list is:

Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator and some do have ciggie odours but not all.

[Martin_D]

Out of the last 100 or so I've seen come thru our shop the only problem I have seen from Tuna's list is:

Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator and some do have ciggie odours but not all.

If you havent seen a cracked door trim, or a failed dash, then you haven't seen a Soarer!

[Rick76]

They pop up on here (http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/) sometimes.

Most of them look pretty rough as they havent been cleaned up like the ones you see @ dealers.

Eg.
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/au/stock/img/6759.jpg

1991 Toyota Soarer V8 LTD (UZZ31), Auto, 62,000 kms, Green, $15,200 plus tyres and ORC's
Status Available
StockID 2433
Year 1991
Make Toyota
Model Soarer V8 LTD (UZZ31)
Transmission Auto
Kms 62000
Colour Green
Price $15,200

Description:

The following vehicle has just come into stock with a supplier in Japan for 390,000 yen FOB. The cost in Australia is estimated to be $15,200.

We have included the cost of shipping, import duties, GST, compliance and our service fee in this estimate. Not included is the cost of tyres, Govt. stamp duty and registration (normal licensing costs for any vehicle).

1991 Toyota Soarer 4.0 litre V8 LTD (UZZ31)
Automatic
62,000 kms
Green
Aftermarket 15" 5-spoke alloy wheels
Sunroof
TV (screen is not working)
CD stacker
Leather interior
All power options and airconditioning

Condition notes: Body is in nice condition other than some fading on the front bumper and marks on the front lip spoiler. Interior is in very nice condition, leather is excellent. Steering wheel is worn, and the airconditioner needs re-gassing. Engine bay is dusty. Runs well.

[Martin_D]

Last one I bought in Japan cost me $1800, and it was clean

[LX346]

Only cracked door trims I have seen are allong the top edge, in the centre the backing can crack but doesn't go thru the material and is hardly noticeable.

Although I can't stand the centre Japanesse display touch screen, only cure is to buy a US display screen if you want the text in english.

Still havent seen a bad dash.

I still think there are more good then bad points with these cars.

I had mine on the hoist, inspected it inside and out before I purchased it, never had a repair to body work, no surface rust anywhere. 94 model with 43,000 genuine km's.

[biased99]

Ahem....
Door trims crack.....ON ALL OF THEM......both sides
Dashes fail, but can be fixed
Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator
Diffs break regularly if you pound them
Engines get rattly after a while (about as noisy as a new LS1)
Autos can crap themselves, but they are only a fairly basic thing
Suspension if its airbag or active can flog out
Interior plastics are generally all rooted, as is the leather
Without fail they stink of Japanese cigarette/BO mix
Carpets are ALWAYS stained
Speedos are knocked without fail
Headlights leak and go yellow

Other than that.......GREAT!

You definitely sound like the voice of experience...Owned one, have you? Looking at your comments, I'd swear I was reading about the litany of problems experienced by early GEN3 owners.
Yes, the door trims crack (given the size/weight of the doors, not that surprising. Not that hard to fix permanently either)
Power steering reservoir CAN leak but does NOT kill the alternator (will need new brushes). One of 2 simple "fixes" prevents this: 1) Obtain and fit a PS re-co kit (around $70-odd bucks) and/or fit a shield over the top of the alternator.
Air-bag (or active) suspension can wear out - as can any coil setup. They are becoming better understood and are now cheaper to reco than they were.
Interior plastics/leather being rooted? Really? Not on any Soarers I've seen. (Or on the the one we owned...or even in the 1989 model Celsior we now also own). In fact, the leather in one of these is of better quality than a mid to late-90s Holden or Ford, and stacks up better over time.
Carpets always stained? Ours certainly wasn't. The Celsior's had some grime, but a simple clean-up had it back as good as new (which suggests good quality/wear characteristics).
Speedos are knocked without fail. Rubbish.
Headlights can leak. Several weel-documented and cheap cleaning fixes abound on the 'net for this.
"Engines get rattly after a while (about as noisy as a new LS1)" :lol: You have got to be fcuking joking...(FWIW, I have 2 of these engines in my garage currently - 1 with 154,000kms on it in a stock Celsior, and 1 with around 100,000kms on it in a modified Cressida. Rattles? Like a GEN3? :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh, I also owned a 1991 UZZ31 Soarer (4.0lt V8). No, it didn't rattle either.

As for insurance? Depends where you are, age, NCB etc. They aren't terribly expensive to insure - certainly not more so than, say, an "equivalent" HSV product, for example.

[LX346]

It's like anything, sure there are rough ones out there and there cheap, but there are a lot of good ones as well.

[Martin_D]

You definitely sound like the voice of experience...Owned one, have you? Looking at your comments, I'd swear I was reading about the litany of problems experienced by early GEN3 owners.

Look at whatever you want. Ive owned two of them (V8s), plus a six turbo...and seen hundreds of them in varying condition in Japan...so, yeah, I might have an idea what they are like.

I am sure they were great when they were new, but realise that most of them are tired old cars now, with wound back speedos.

Oh, yeah, the stackers always die in them too!

Build a bridge. :lol:

[biased99]

Look at whatever you want. Ive owned two of them (V8s), plus a six turbo...and seen hundreds of them in varying condition in Japan...so, yeah, I might have an idea what they are like.

I am sure they were great when they were new, but realise that most of them are tired old cars now, with wound back speedos.

Oh, yeah, the stackers always die in them too!

Build a bridge. :lol:

You "might have an idea what they're like" but obviously haven't a clue about the 1UZ...(rattles, my arse! :lol: )

[Martin_D]

You "might have an idea what they're like" but obviously haven't a clue about the 1UZ...(rattles, my arse! :lol: )

With 110kw at the wheels, who give a shite if they rattle or not? Gutless bloody wonders. Might as well have a Camry

[biased99]

With 110kw at the wheels, who give a shite if they rattle or not? Gutless bloody wonders. Might as well have a Camry

*laughs*
Well, my Cressida with "110 kw at the wheels" seemed to do OK around Wakefield against a VX R8 Clubsport with (supposedly) 255FWKW...Not sure what that says about the "Clubbie"...
:p

[HRT Stroker]

After seeing Tuna's twin turbo monster at the LS1 dyno day, the four or so at the next dyno day that were V8's were very dissapointing, ranging from 93 rwkw to 120 for one with minor bolts on's......

Nice looking bit of gear but the twin turbo six is the pick of the bunch for sure!

What did you sell ($$$) yours for Tuna?

[Martin_D]

Yes, well that was my next step, sell up all the good stuff and go buy $1200 worth of Cressida. Seriously, Ive owned a quicker Toyota than you could ever dream of, and it was still a fairly average motor car.

[HRT Stroker]

*laughs*
Well, my Cressida with "110 kw at the wheels" seemed to do OK around Wakefield against a VX R8 Clubsport with (supposedly) 255FWKW...Not sure what that says about the "Clubbie"...
:p


Only that the bloke couldn't drive it me thinks!!!

[Martin_D]

A good twin turbo like mine was, with 350rwkw is a decent combo. The V8s were always intended to be the 'old mans' car which is why they had smaller brakes than the six.

The best thing about the V8 was being able to buy them from Japanese scrap yards for $1800, spend $5000 complying, transporting, detailing, then sell them for $25,000 here :lol: :lol: :lol:
Many a good business built on Soarers!

[biased99]

Yes, well that was my next step, sell up all the good stuff and go buy $1200 worth of Cressida. Seriously, Ive owned a quicker Toyota than you could ever dream of, and it was still a fairly average motor car.


Yes, of course I'll bow to your undoubted expertise in the field... :booty:

The Cressida was purchased to fulfill the role of commuter/tourer and occasional track-day scratcher - all of which it handles with aplomb.

A stock 1UZ is hardly a "ball-tearing" machine (it is, after all, designed to economically power large luxo-barges - hence the "F" in the designation). Trim a few hundred kilos off the overall weight (which a Cressida transplant accomplishes), fit after-market engine-management and a reasonable exhaust (plus the obligatory brake/suspension upgrades) and it is a reasonable bit of kit. It will run with most of the HSV products I've seen out at Wakefield (respective driver abilities notwithstanding), cost me considerably less to put together than an "equivalent" Holden or Ford product;, will last considerably longer (re-built a GEN3 lately?) and attracts zero attention (Let's face it, it's a "$1200 Cressida"...Who the hell would look at it???).

Fits the bill quite nicely, thanks. All from "110KW at the wheels"

:lol:

[LX346]

I have to admit I brought a 6 cylinder coupe as the V8's are gutless in such a heavy car, the 6 is just as good around town for daily driving, no land speed record car but a nice clean smooth car.

The later VVTi 6's are a more refined motor but still no land speed record machine, but as good as a V8 and more economical.

If I had the money I would of got a 6 twin turbo as they are the pick if you want a bit of speed.

[HRT Stroker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by biased99
*laughs*
Well, my Cressida with "110 kw at the wheels" seemed to do OK around Wakefield against a VX R8 Clubsport with (supposedly) 255FWKW...Not sure what that says about the "Clubbie"...


Having never raced at Wakefield Park myself, what sort of lap times are you running??

[Martin_D]

You could also tattoo an anus on your forehead.
The big question is........and its the same one that applies to your foul taste in cars........'WHY'?

[biased99]

You could also tattoo an anus on your forehead.
The big question is........and its the same one that applies to your foul taste in cars........'WHY'?

The same tatt you run? Naturally, the same question applies, as regards vehicles...

As for the previous poster; not sure. (haven't been officially timed). I doubt I'm that fast, but I would think (given the sorts of times others who were there that day have run when actually timed) around 1:18 to 1:20. Hardly earth shattering (unlike the claimed 11.8 1/4 claimed by street fish...err "tuna" ); but reasonable, all the same.

[Martin_D]

Hardly earth shattering (unlike the claimed 11.8 1/4 claimed by street fish...err "tuna" ); but reasonable, all the same.

Thats not a claim riceboy, thats a FACT! :lol: :lol: :booty: :booty: :lol: :lol:
Try that in ya pussbox!

[biased99]

Thats not a claim riceboy, thats a FACT! :lol: :lol: :booty: :booty: :lol: :lol:
Try that in ya pussbox!

Yep, no doubt. As is the "fact"that your engine is bog-stock also
:rolleyes:

Riceboy? Do you even know what one is? I mean, do you? :stupid:

[Martin_D]

Riceboy? Do you even know what one is? I mean, do you? :stupid:

Yes, I am a little biased, but 99% of the time I get it right

[HRT Stroker]

OK boys, back on topic.

If you wanna keep boxing do it via PM's please.

[IIV8II]

Aaaaaaaw, but Stroker, this is fun!

[Mongy]

Ahem....
Door trims crack.....ON ALL OF THEM......both sides
Dashes fail, but can be fixed
Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator
Diffs break regularly if you pound them
Engines get rattly after a while (about as noisy as a new LS1)
Autos can crap themselves, but they are only a fairly basic thing
Suspension if its airbag or active can flog out
Interior plastics are generally all rooted, as is the leather
Without fail they stink of Japanese cigarette/BO mix
Carpets are ALWAYS stained
Speedos are knocked without fail
Headlights leak and go yellow

Other than that.......GREAT!
:lol: No doubt about you Tuna, straight to the point :lol: . Obviously you are like me and have actually seen them on the docks when they come off the boat. Trust me, if you guys saw them as they land in the country you wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Out of a shipment of 30 there might be 1 or 2 good ones if you are lucky, and I mean very lucky. The shipments I have seen, and I've seen a few, they are all VERY badly looked after and have lots of damage here and there. It is the ashtrays that get me, I have not seen one of them yet that has not got butts spilling out onto the floor because they are that jammed full, they don't even clean them to ship them here. They look great when they are all tarted up by the importers, but that is just what they are, a tarted up pig. As Tuna says, other than that.....GREAT

[Robos R33]

My old man had a V8 Soarer for the past 5 years or more. Got to say he has a very good run out of it. I think the only thing that stuffed up was the ABS brake booster. Its ticking over 140,000 ks now and still is silky smooth and quiet. No, its never thrashed

Now to mention a few other things that he didnt like

1) Digital dash light was poor. (he pulled it apart, cleaned all the lenses, screens etc)
2) Japanese Navigation (Great stereo though for a 91 model car, beats most of the latest model luxury cruises)

Other than that the car is quite immaculate and is probably built for an elderly sporty market. Certainly i wouldnt choose the V8 for performance.

[LX346]

It's funny you guys that keep saying there full of cigarette butts must be in a state where there is no quarantine because here in NSW and as far as I am aware the whole country all cars must go thru quarantine, if they dont pass they go thru it again and again until they have been cleaned.

BTW imported cars will structual damage of more then 25mm must be exported out of the country or crushed.

I visit the docks twice a week for work and sure there's some that come in body bags, but there always from the same dealers, then there are the very well looked after ones.

Like they say you can make a good car bad, but you can't make a bad car good, no matter how hard someone tries, you can always spot a tired car.

[Mongy]

It's funny you guys that keep saying there full of cigarette butts must be in a state where there is no quarantine because here in NSW and as far as I am aware the whole country all cars must go thru quarantine, if they dont pass they go thru it again and again until they have been cleaned.

BTW imported cars will structual damage of more then 25mm must be exported out of the country or crushed.

I visit the docks twice a week for work and sure there's some that come in body bags, but there always from the same dealers, then there are the very well looked after ones.

Like they say you can make a good car bad, but you can't make a bad car good, no matter how hard someone tries, you can always spot a tired car.
Come up here to Brissy and see the quality that the local importers bring in, it is very poor, and yes, cigarette butts everywhere. Look, I know people that have brought these cars and love them, one of the guys where I work has one and it is a good car, he has never had much go wrong with it and it looks good, has plenty of extras and you would not be able to get him out of it with an iron bar. I have seen some good ones, but in general nearly all are in pretty poor condition. I saw a Ferrari get pulled out of a container from Hong Kong and could not believe the condition it was in - YUK!! How anybody could treat a car worth that much money like that I'll never understand, but I bet the importer made a heap of $ out of it once it was cleaned up and fixed. I know from seeing them here I would not take the risk that is for sure. My son actually wanted to buy one once so I took him for a look one day. He had seen them in car yards and liked them but he was shocked at their appearance and quality pre car yard as well. He has ended up buying a WRX instead, and as much as we all put crap on them it is not a bad car really, I'd sooner see him in that than one of the others.

[Soarer Owner]

Door trims crack.....ON ALL OF THEM......both sides >>>> Yes they do, most of them, not bad for the only trim problem in a 1991 car. Easily fixed, if you actually notice it as it's hidden from view by the dash bulkhead.

Dashes fail, but can be fixed>>>> Easy fix, no replacement necessary, $3.00 worth of parts to fix.

Power Steering leaks and kills the alternator>>>>> Yes that can happen, but if the car is serviced correcly by the new owner the offending PS hose can be replaced for about $23.00

Diffs break regularly if you pound them>>>>>> Anything can break if you try hard enough.

Engines get rattly after a while (about as noisy as a new LS1) >>>>> False. The motors, regardless of type are not noisy at all. However after about a bazzillion miles a V8 may need valve adjustment.

Autos can crap themselves, but they are only a fairly basic thing>>>> This is not unique to the automotive world and if flushed with 12L of AT fluid they will not crap out.

Suspension if its airbag or active can flog out>>>> Once again not unique and easily and resonably priced fixes are available, especially the Active version.

Interior plastics are generally all rooted, as is the leather>>>> Complete bollocks! I have no idea what he is on about.

Without fail they stink of Japanese cigarette/BO mix>>> yes many smell, just wash the interior.

Carpets are ALWAYS stained>>>> False
Speedos are knocked without fail>>>>> This is possible for sure.

Headlights leak and go yellow>>>> They can, easily fixed and yellow polished out.

I have 2 V8 Soarers, both with over 150,000k on them. They do 14.1 quater miles and 57.4 seconds around Oran Park.

ALL THAT HAS BEEN REPLACED since 1991 (I have the log books) is 1 x power steering hose and 1 x overflow bottle for the radiator.

That is normal for a V8 to not need anything at all replaced during ownership. Very few cars in the world can claim that.

I have a business importing parts for Soarers and I have had to bring in NOT 1 SINGLE hard part for a V8, ever. Trim and garnish stuff, sure.

They have 121RWKW standard, however quite good torque.

The thing is, they handle VERY well and brake VERY well indeed. It's not until you run against one in the twisty stuff that you realise what a wolf in sheeps clothing they are.

Sure they are heavy, 1700kg but they surprise everyone at the open track days at just how nimble they are around a tight track.

The V8 stops in less distance from 100 meters than the TT, factory figures.

The TT is the real go-hard car! Awesome perfomance and reliability. Tons of potential for souping up too, 300rwkw with original pistons, head and turbos is possible.

The support from the Australian Lexus and Soarer Club is complete and generous, you would never be an orphan owner.

The temptation fotr me to compare a Soarer to any GMH product is huge, but the original thread was by someone seeking guidence on SC400's.

Just drive a few and form your own opinion, regardless of a Soarer or a VW.

[XLR8 V8]

The temptation fotr me to compare a Soarer to any GMH product is huge, but the original thread was by someone seeking guidence on SC400's.


Not to mention that the thread also died to nothing over a month and a half ago? :deal:

[Gambelli]

The same tatt you run? Naturally, the same question applies, as regards vehicles...

As for the previous poster; not sure. (haven't been officially timed). I doubt I'm that fast, but I would think (given the sorts of times others who were there that day have run when actually timed) around 1:18 to 1:20. Hardly earth shattering (unlike the claimed 11.8 1/4 claimed by street fish...err "tuna" ); but reasonable, all the same.

If your times are correct, then you're right, not that fast at all.....As for your beating a VX Clubby, no doubt you did, last time I was at Wakefield I was lapping within a sec of an E55 (the new one) and he had on semi slicks....guess who was ringing the neck of his car and who was cruising around in his though?

On the same day as I went there were HSV's in the 1:24's...slow car? NO, driver just not wanting to punish his new car...

Me, 1:16.0 - 1:16.4 all day with passenger....and thats in a Senator which is stock and not particularly track friendly on suspension.....and I'm not any good at driving.

There's always a bigger fish out there so try to be a bit realistic.....

Love him or hate him I think you might find Tuna's 1/4 mile claims to be fairly accurate!

[Robos R33]

[QUOTE=Soarer Owner]

I have 2 V8 Soarers, both with over 150,000k on them. They do 14.1 quater miles and 57.4 seconds around Oran Park.

I have a business importing parts for Soarers and I have had to bring in NOT 1 SINGLE hard part for a V8, ever. Trim and garnish stuff, sure.

They have 121RWKW standard, however quite good torque.

Sure they are heavy, 1700kg but they surprise everyone at the open track days at just how nimble they are around a tight track.

QUOTE]

121rwkw with 1700kg doing 14.1 quarters, i dont think so!!! I agree with the 121rwkw and 1700kg but they havent got a hope in hell of doing 14.1!! Mid 15's if your lucky. My dad drives a stock V8 soarer and it just doesnt feel to be a 14.1 second car. Smooth and refined, yes, Ballsy, NO.

[CAPRICIOUS_LS1]

I have to laugh here! HAHAHA...cough
It bothers me how some of you can have time to write on here and give s#it about other cars...but that is expected, this is a HOLDEN forum.

Being the owner of a WH Caprice series 2 and a 1993 toyota soarer twin turbo i can clearly offer my opinions on both.

Let me tell u something the Caprice doesn't have over the soarer...refinement. Thats right, a car that was first made in 1991 is much more refined than the 2002 Caprice, with internals that were made in 1999 for the LS1.

The Caprice's Gen III is a thrashy thing, rough at idle, rough everywhere in the rev range. Compare this to the soarer twin turbo...smooth all the way till redline, just like the V8 soarer which i have driven many times as well. - and it has more grunt off the line too due mainly to the excellent small compressor wheels of the turbo that spool up immediately.

Now the gearbox. The Caprice gearbox feels like one out of a truck...very unrefined, changing gears too quickly, and gearchanges that you can feel. Soarer-smooth, and unnoticable.

I may also add that i have driven the soarer for the last 80000km since i bought it four years ago, and the only thing i have had to fix was the blank dash, which only took me 30 mins with $4 worth of parts from Jaycar.
Caprice. well, 3 major probs to do with suspension, transmission and catalytic converters within the first 20000k's...luckily all under warranty.

Now, let me tell you both cars are reliably sound, i may have just recieved a bad apple with the caprice, because for the last 30000k's i have had no probs.

Holden have just begun to put refinement into their cars...and whats this, the new six speed on the VZ's are japanese!!! You should thank the japanese for refinement and reliability, i certainly won't be buying a new Caprice until the gen IV comes out hopefully with the 6-speed auto.

I know there are a few on this forum who are Holden Only people, but there is nothing wrong with the soarer at all, and a stock twin turbo auto beats a stock VU SS ute manual...i know, cause i have beaten one!

Stop dissing soarers, they are better than you think.