WK Statesman V8

[ColinS]

This is my first post & I realise that my question's answer is probably already within this forum. However, most threads relate to Commodore/Monaro. I also realise that Commodore, Monaro & Statesman are all similar but different. My Statesman has 1500 ks, my son has the same model which has had Pacemaker extractors and a cold air intake modicication (SS, I think) along with a free flowing exhaust.

There is no comparison between the "feel" of power between the two but his has a throaty (too loud for me) sound and a bit of a drone. I am trying to get the most for the least buck, plus I want as quiet an exhaust that is possible but that will let the engine breath. I have been told that simply opening up the air box will do 90% of the CAI kit and that Stainelss Extractors are best because O2 sensor problems with Mild Stieel Pacemaker Brand as well as problems with 2 bolt flanges.

So I looking for advice for some mods that will enhance the power, at a reasonable cost but will be almost as quiet as the standard car. Is that possible?

Sorry for the long post.

[Fixel]

Welcome to the forum Colin and welcome to Lux-o-barge modifications
There are a few of us here with WH and WKs (even a couple knocking on the door of the 12 second 1/4 mile)

Have a look at the forum sponsors and do some 'searches' for archived posts. Keywords like 'second hole mod' exhaust & edit

The 'edit' which is reprogramming the car's PCM (computer management) will release a lot of the car's perfomance which is hidden by the conservative factory tune.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, we are a friendly bunch

[ColinS]

Thanks Fixel, I'll do as you suggest.

[VooDoo]

If you want to come for a drive in a 241rwkw lux-0-barge drop me a line. i have a twin 2.5" system with opened up cats and pacemakers. At the dyno day it was one of the quietest cars there but one of the highest power outputs. If you want a great system go and see les at Noyzworx in Lawnton. I have been extremely happy with my system and around town there is no drone nor does it attract attention.

at WOT down willowbank it does though :)

[markone2]

Colin….the standard Holden Headers will be suffice for your requirements imo, I suggest
A cat back twin exhaust system ,plus diff ratio change combined with an Edit tune from Power torque Engines at Brendale…This will give you enough in the way of Horsepower to leave your son with a permanent case of lockjaw… :eek: without causing any undue stress on the wallet…
Subdued Power on demand :burnout: …as befits the Statesman..imho

[ColinS]

Subdued Power on demand :burnout: …as befits the Statesman..imho That's what I want :D

[Fixel]

Colin, the only problem is that modding the car is like eating potato chips, once you start it's very hard to stop :)

[ColinS]

Yes I see what you mean, Fixel. I think I'm beginning to see the picture. I've read a bit from sponsors and tried search. I'm still not sure what "2nd Hole mod" means apart from the obvious. Is this something you buy from a dealer as a Monaro part or does one simply cut a second hole in the air box?

[seldo]

Colin….the standard Holden Headers will be suffice for your requirements imo, I suggest
A cat back twin exhaust system ,plus diff ratio change combined with an Edit tune from Power torque Engines at Brendale…This will give you enough in the way of Horsepower to leave your son with a permanent case of lockjaw… :eek: without causing any undue stress on the wallet…
Subdued Power on demand :burnout: …as befits the Statesman..imho
Yep. Everything Mark says . If you want a little bit more go for the extractors as well, but definately do the following in this order 1. MAF pipe, filter & CAI including 2 hole mod - maybe $300, (use the search function), 2. cat back exhaust - $400 - $1000, if you want to go for the lot also do ceramic coated tri-y Pacemaker extractors, see Noyzworks and choose your level of noise, 3. diff ratio (from 3.08 to 3.46 - from $600 to about $1000 depending on parts source), 4. Edit the PCM (see Power Torque above - $1000 - $1300). Do all that and you will be king of the kids and will be able to see off pretty much any standard car on the road that costs under $200k. Enjoy! :burnout: :driving:

[Fixel]

I'm still not sure what "2nd Hole mod" means apart from the obvious. Is this something you buy from a dealer as a Monaro part or does one simply cut a second hole in the air box?

Your WK already has the part, it's your lower airbox and cold air inlet shroud, the "second hole mod" is just that, and cutting the largest hole you can next to the exsisting air inlet hole and fitting a short tube to match it.
This is mine (without the tube fitted) http://members.ozemail.com.au/~norms/pics/cai/inside_box.jpg

BTW Don't forget the low restriction air filter like a K & N

[ColinS]

Ahh..So.. Picture worth a thousand words. Thanks Fixel :cool:

[VooDoo]

3.73 diff gears Seldo.. no good doing things by halves. Throw in a nice 2800rpm stally while your there :)

[Fixel]

3.73 diff gears Seldo.. no good doing things by halves. Throw in a nice 2800rpm stally while your there :)

Personal opinion VooDoo :)
I reckon 3.46 and a 3k stally are a good compromise

[VooDoo]

I went 3.7's and a 3500k stally. Perfect for when the supercharger goes on. I do 400+k's a week and had 3.46's in the last car and found the 3.73's perfect in the Caprice. Next car will get the same but a lot sooner. We should get a heap of these lux-0-barges together for a photo shoot some time :D

[djcrombie]

Colin,

Have just been down the path you are heading with my WK. I wanted more power without sacrificing the enjoyment of the quiet ride as I do a lot of long trips.

I looked at and tried a number of different things and this what I settled on

Cat Back Exhaust
Air Box modification larger hole - Will increase induction noise
GTS MAF Pipe
LS1 Edit

With these changes I now have 221Kw at the rear wheels and it now has the power I was looking for.

Probably the last suggestion I could make if you wanted it to be quicker off the mark is to as suggested change the diff ratios.

[wuked]

I support what everyone has said, CAI, edit, diff etc, but me I put a large rear resonator on my stato, seems pointless having a loud exhaust on a stato with the effect put in to keep it quiet.

[bigjoe]

Colin
I have a Wk Statesman Caprice with all the work done. My suggestionis that you wait for 2 weeks when the new system for the satesman comes out. The manufacturer asures me that they have fixed the drone problem. I have fitted 3.73 diff ration and the feel and driveability is outstanding.
The others mods that have be done is a cam and head package by Sams Performance with a 212 212@50 giving it a stock idle but with 320rwhp. Sams calls it his Businessman Package. The car did 13.3 full trim on street tyres.

[markone2]

Colin
IThe others mods that have be done is a cam and head package by Sams Performance with a 212 212@50 giving it a stock idle but with 320rwhp. Sams calls it his Businessman Package. The car did 13.3 full trim on street tyres.


Oh No :bawl: ......bigjoe, while I’m sure you posted with the very best intentions, the moment Master *Lux o Barge* himself lays eyes on particular sentence you will have committed us poor Queenslanders to a 12 month sentence of non-stop ear bashing on the attributes and abilities of one tungsten coloured unopened WH….. :) fortunately it is still very early in the morning and I have around 3 hours left to find myself a sturdy set of ear muffs and arrange for the house phones to be disconnected…..for that small mercy I will be forever grateful to the big guy upstairs for granting me a restless nights sleep.

[ColinS]

Thanks very much, everyone. I'm not looking to be the fastest 0-100 but I need passing power as I tow a boat to North Queensland often and drive to Melbourne a couple of times a year. As these are long distances I want peace and quiet too.

Do I read this right? Extractors shouldn't be near the top of my list.

[VooDoo]

Oh No :bawl: ......bigjoe, while I’m sure you posted with the very best intentions, the moment Master *Lux o Barge* himself lays eyes on particular sentence you will have committed us poor Queenslanders to a 12 month sentence of non-stop ear bashing on the attributes and abilities of one tungsten coloured unopened WH….. :) fortunately it is still very early in the morning and I have around 3 hours left to find myself a sturdy set of ear muffs and arrange for the house phones to be disconnected…..for that small mercy I will be forever grateful to the big guy upstairs for granting me a restless nights sleep.

ROFL....

I dont really need to say anything now do I.

*cough* 13.1 unopened and 330hp :) *cough*

ColinS: Get a nice catback first (talk to Noyzworx on 32054342 as he can make a system without the drone). Then get some diff gears and the Edit and its a changed car. Then after the bug has bitten you (and it will) you can look at stally's, cams, superchargers and a couple of turbos :stick:

[ssberlina]

Voodoo,

How is the stally for towing? May not be the best mod if he is going to tow the boat long distances. Just a thought. I agree with the cat back, edit and diff though. You wont know the car.

[stato]

Hi ColinS,

Thanks, this is the best thread I've seen here. OK, guys, it seems that in Brisbane Noyzworx is the go for a non drone exhaust. My question is, who would you recommend in Sydney for something equivalent? Thanks.

[VooDoo]

Talk to greg (Thunder) at Sureflo. I spoke to him quite a lot when i was looking for a system and he offered some great advice and options even though i was in Qld and he is in Sydney and wasnt going to be doing it. He is a sponser here and produced many good systems.

Mines a 2.5" twin with opened up cats, 2 Redback muflers and a large 2 In/ 2out Resonator. The rear overhang on the stato actually helps keep the noise levels down in the cabin and at 100k's cruising you can hardly hear the exhaust. make sure the rear resonator is decent quality as thats the main componant that eliminates drone from what i can see.

Sureflo have a web site http://www.surefloexhaust.com.au/

[Fixel]

For a nice finish to the exhaust note I love my twin outlets :love:

It gives it that old school V8 burble.

Well we do seperate our stereo speakers for a better sound, why not out exhaust :D
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~norms/pics/ls8/P1290015.jpg

[ColinS]

That is sure a nice looking rear end. But... I had look under my WK and there would seem to be no way for a second pipe.

[wuked]

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~norms/pics/ls8/P1290015.jpg

Mate that looks awesome!

Whats involved, isn't there a problem with the fuel tank?

Cheers

[Fixel]

The biggest part is getting the bumper done for the second outlet.

CSV did the job as a part of my custom exhaust, they offer it as an option.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~norms/pics/ls8/P1290016.jpg

[ColinS]

Thanks again everybody. This is the order I intend to proceed until I get what I need. Based on what I have learnt/assumed from this forum and a US site that was very scientific about induction/exhaust modifications. On that site they claimed that the 2nd hole mod was 98% of the improvement on the induction side after dyno testing several aftermarket kits (I realise that they were using US LS1 engines etc) and that standard cats barely restrict the exhaust (maybe different on a Holden). So:

1: 2nd Hole modification this week end (probably a sports filter)

2: Back Cat system with as much flow and with as little noise as the supplier can offer me. Probably either from Noysworks or Rob Bliss. Unless I can find someone closer to Southside.

Hopefully that will do me & I want get "hooked" LOL

if not:

3: Probably a sports MAF & inlet pipe.

if that doesn't cure me

4: An Edit and maybe the extractors.

[seldo]

Don't discount the diff ratio. Particularly if you do a bit of towing - it is one of the best value improvements you can make. I'd do it before extractors for not much difference in cost.

[ColinS]

Am I correct that the diff ratio change will mean more rpm per kph? If so, I was going to avoid that because I cruise for long distances and my son's car (without diff change or editing) has sufficient over-taking power for me, even with the one of boats on the back.

[seldo]

Am I correct that the diff ratio change will mean more rpm per kph? If so, I was going to avoid that because I cruise for long distances and my son's car (without diff change or editing) has sufficient over-taking power for me, even with the one of boats on the back.
Yes it does. It changes you from 1790 rpm @ 100kph to 2017 for the 3.46. But because you need less throttle to get the desired result fuel consumption is no greater and some report better. Really noticeable improvement off the line especially when towing. Also edit will substantially improve fuel consumption for the same driving style as it leans-out the mixture.

[markone2]

Upon changing from Holden's boring 3.07 to 3.46 gears my fuel consumption improved remarkably..a lot less strain on the engine I believe..and can only be viewed as a most essential mod in anyone's lanaguage :) ..you will never look back.

[DaveHAT]

Sorry to jump in with a non barge related question.
Having now done MAF pipe, MCAI, K&N on my VTSS, the next step will be exhaust.
Just clarifying opinions. CAT back exhaust will give better overall results than extractors?
I just want to know which order to do things in. Wish I coould afford the lot, but alas..................


PS does $500 fitted for 4-2-1 pacemakers with 7500km on them sound like an OK price?
Thanks guys.

[ssberlina]

Yes it does. It changes you from 1790 rpm @ 100kph to 2017 for the 3.46. But because you need less throttle to get the desired result fuel consumption is no greater and some report better. Really noticeable improvement off the line especially when towing. Also edit will substantially improve fuel consumption for the same driving style as it leans-out the mixture.

Its worth noting that the 3.46 diff in the auto is standard when Holden make the pontiac gto (monaro) for export but not on the domestic market.

[seldo]

Its worth noting that the 3.46 diff in the auto is standard when Holden make the pontiac gto (monaro) for export but not on the domestic market.
Slightly OT - I note too that the new Alloytec engines come with a 2.78 diff. Hehe, I guess all those blokes with a slightly used 3.07 under the bed had better dust 'em off ready for the up-grades..;)

[VooDoo]

I found the car to got better economy with the 3.73's as the engine wasnt working as hard. Even with edit and all the mods i can get 10.7L/100k's on the highway. Overtaking is a lot of fun with a puff of tyre smoke :D

[ColinS]

What is the cost for:

1: 3.46 Diff replacement
2: Edit

[seldo]

What is the cost for:

1: 3.46 Diff replacement
2: Edit
1. Try Mobi Diffs at Slacks Creek 3808 4576
2. Power Torque Engines at Brendale 3881 2379
Quote the Forum ;)

[ColinS]

seldo: Thanks for that.

[Fixel]

Colin,
IMO - don't bother changing the MAF (or throttle body), it's better to get rid of it all together when you get your edit.

That's unless you are considering even BIGGER mods.

[seldo]

seldo: Thanks for that.
No wuckers..;)

[Goanna]

Sorry to kinda change this a little, im not lucky enough yet to own a Gen 3, i only have a 6, A VX2, all these mods your talking about are great for the V8, what about a 6??, will alot of what your talking about help me out??, Cheers

[VooDoo]

thegreengoanna: start a thread and you may get some answers. Its too far off topic for this thread mate :)

[ColinS]

Colin,
IMO - don't bother changing the MAF (or throttle body), it's better to get rid of it all together when you get your edit.

That's unless you are considering even BIGGER mods.

That's very interesting information, thanks Fixel. Do you mean that "during" an EDIT a completely different MAF & Throttle Body can be prescribed than ones that might be changed out without an Edit?

[MNR-0]

I think he means you can get the TB ported and the MAF pipe replaced with a freer flowing VYII one. Either that or toss the MAF altogether and get a MAFless tune.

[markone2]

That's very interesting information, thanks Fixel. Do you mean that "during" an EDIT a completely different MAF & Throttle Body can be prescribed than ones that might be changed out without an Edit?


I believe Fixel means there is very little to be gained on an unopened engine by changing the throttle body :) ...as concerns the Maf.....this is best thrown as far as your right arm permits...preferably while far out at sea.

[Fixel]

That's very interesting information, thanks Fixel. Do you mean that "during" an EDIT a completely different MAF & Throttle Body can be prescribed than ones that might be changed out without an Edit?

There are two main types of edit. In one the MAF is retained (with possibly a larger or de-screened stock MAF, but this is contentious) or a Speed Density edit allows for the MAF to be removed altogether (with better perfomance gains) as per HSV.

With both edits, cleaning up the throttle body can help at WOT (wide open throttle) but we are talking about an "Every little bit helps" approach.
This approach would include little mods like "coolant by pass" and removing the trumpet inside the airbox lid.

The current wisdom has it that a standard TB is good for most applications until you start looking at more serious HP mods.

I hope this makes sense?

[ColinS]

Colin
I have a Wk Statesman Caprice with all the work done. My suggestionis that you wait for 2 weeks when the new system for the satesman comes out. The manufacturer asures me that they have fixed the drone problem.

Can you please advise exactly what the new system is? (Catback?) Who is the manufacturer that you refer to?

[ColinS]

If I may focus on the induction side of things.

1: When the 2nd hole mod is used, is a 2nd tube/pipe run from that hole in a 90 degree bend so that cold air is induced in to the system at speed? If so what type of pipe do I need?

2: Does this mod affect the engine at idle (e.g. pick up rpm) and is any idle adjustment required?

3: Do I assume correctly, that any increase in airflow is detected by the MAF and the ECM (computer?) makes all/any adjustments from there? If so is this "seamless" or does it take some time for the ECM to recallibrate settings? I think I read somewhere that you need to let the engine run for some time for settings to stabilize.

Thanks in anticipation.

[ColinS]

I hope this makes sense?

Thanks Fixel (and others) I am getting the picture. I notice that the induction mods fitted to my son's WK through the Holden dealer, has a different SS MAF which which is wider rather than larger in diameter. We have no idea as to whether the TB is modded. It will be interesting to observe the difference in performance in my WK as each mod is performed and cross referenced to my son's WK.

[markone2]

Thanks Fixel (and others) I am getting the picture. I notice that the induction mods fitted to my son's WK through the Holden dealer, has a different SS MAF which which is wider rather than larger in diameter. We have no idea as to whether the TB is modded. It will be interesting to observe the difference in performance in my WK as each mod is performed and cross referenced to my son's WK.


If that is an SS Inductions MAF.. :( .....take note! these have been known in the past to
take out more than the odd transmission...as for the SS inductions CAI :doh:
well these are also well known for there engine braking abilities once the revs start rising............and yes they are fitted by many dealers / exhaust shops /tuners etc.........it's called Profit Line.....and most worthy of note is the fact that these two items combined will cover the cost of a proper edit tune that WILL increase performance / WILL increase economy and WILL make your Statesman a much more pleasant car to drive in the lower to mid rev range...*Commonly referred to as Driveability*

ps.....the cai 2nd hole mod and the GTS maf pipe are generally fitted as part and parcel of your edit tune :) ...well in Brisbane anyway's

[ColinS]

OK, I have spoken with Power Torque. Sounds like an Edit is the way to go which includes the 2nd hole mod. As I thought, it's recommended that the exhaust be fixed before the edit.
I'm still very interested in anyone's rsponses to my questions in the last few posts, especially from bigjoe and the new system.
The next question is whether to replace just the catbacks or do the extractors as well. Can anyone put a percentage improvement between standard exhaust manifolds & various extractors?

[markone2]

Can anyone put a percentage improvement between standard exhaust manifolds & various extractors?


:) So far I have kept thy nose out of this one ..but here goes..two unopened VY Commodores...identical mafless tunes...both auto's with TC. / both with diff mods..one car has Pacemakers and cat back exhaust.the other cat back only.
Car one with Pacemakers 1/10th and 1.5 mph quicker over standing quarter..
Both experinced drivers....conclusion :idea: for street application there is 2/3rds of 5/8 of ( insert rude word :) here ) between the two..imho...and before anyone jumps up and down about the varibles of drag racing these two cars have been neck and neck over the previous 12 months

[seldo]

:) So far I have kept thy nose out of this one ..but here goes..two unopened VY Commodores...identical mafless tunes...both auto's with TC. / both with diff mods..one car has Pacemakers and cat back exhaust.the other cat back only.
Car one with Pacemakers 1/10th and 1.5 mph quicker over standing quarter..
Both experinced drivers....conclusion :idea: for street application there is 2/3rds of 5/8 of ( insert rude word :) here ) between the two..imho...and before anyone jumps up and down about the varibles of drag racing these two cars have been neck and neck over the previous 12 months
I rest my case. Of everyone on this forum Mark has tried everything that there is to try and has has produced some amazing results because of that. I would disagree with one thing though and that is his recommendation to turf the MAF. Whilst that is undoubtedly the way to go for ultimate performance, from what I have read between the lines as to the likely use you will put it, I would retain the MAF for your purposes. And i would skip the extractors too for all the same reasons. Sure, do extractors and mafless, but at an additional cost of $1000 for maybe another 10rwkw and mostly at the top end. Unless i guess wrongly you sound as if you would rarely use more than about 4000rpm (like me) so just concentrate on mid-range torque.
To answer your specific questions though:
1. Let Power Torque do the 2nd hole mod for you - they will do it better, quicker, and know exactly what to do without furkin it up.
2. No, it won't affect idle but will attended to by the edit anyway. Going mafless can produce idle problems which can also usually be fixed by edit but some have been known to have on-going idle issues.
3. Yes, the PCM will sort out all the factors and will operate within the new parameters provided by the edit.
So, for a budget upgrade with the car to be used as a daily hack with very little max rpm, I would recommend cat-back only, no extractors, GTS MAF pipe, K&N filter, 2 hole, diff ratio, and edit, in that order. I think the 2 hole, maf-pipe and filter are a very cheap and easy start, and I don't know if your WK uses the Monaro CAI as standard, but if it doesn't you should add that immediately too. Have fun. ;) :burnout: :driving:

[Fixel]

Seldo seems to have some very good advice there, which seems consistant with the current general wisdom.

In 1984 I was happy to get 1hp per cube street car and parted with a few thousand 1984 dollars to achieve it.

One thing I'd like to point out is that the edit tune is a relatively new method of tuning and each of the smaller mods mentioned have come into regular usage over the same period (with many coming in over the last year or less).

To their credit, tuners have been adding these smaller mods to their various tuning packages (often while maintaining the same price) so for me things like the second hole mod was some thing that the owner did, now it's fairly standard tune add on.

Extracting the best from these ugly looking donks is still a work-in-progress, but the biggest gains seem to have been gained already (although we are yet to see what Dick's Electronics new box of tricks can unleash :) )

The tinkerers and car nuts out there continue to think and tweak with the majority of us benefitting. Their example makes me sit think and try.

[Roddy]

Saw a brand spanking new black Caprice last night and I must say it looked absolutely smashing, even while parked next to a black Munro. At that very moment, if hypothetically offered the keys to both, it would have been lux-o-barge central for me. Big, bad and black.

[ColinS]

OK slight change of plan.

1: Fit Catbacks next week.
2. Have an EDIT the following week
3: Check it out and see if Diff mod required

Thanks again everybody for your invaluable advice. I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.

[stato]

Hi again Colin,

Can't speak from experience yet, still in the planning stages myself, actually so happy with the Stato that I'm a bit loath to change a thing. Whatever, herewith, couple of sites I have read with great interest:

http://users.senet.com.au/~dtech/ as to the edit.

http://www.comeracing.com/ as to the "ditch the MAF" issue. Look on the menu under "latest feature" for a comment that they retained the MAF on the big stroker, for reasons they state there. In other words, some confirmation of what advice you have been given above.

http://www.dba.com.au/dba_catalogue_2004/HTML/home_menu.htm for later if you actually want to, er, stop the thing. The stock discs do not enjoy a good reputation, the DBA do.

http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/holden/wh/wh-specs.html Just for a few specs.

Finally for now, I recall reading a Martin Donnan article on tuning the Ls1 in which he says generally the stock exhaust manifold is right for applications such as you have in mind, again reassuring to have confirmation of your ideas/plans.

Thanks again for a great thread, Stato specific and all.

Good luck, hope you enjoy your Stato as much as I'm enjoying mine, they're great cars. Will be interesting to hear how the "refinement" particularly the noise aspect, survives the tuning process.

[seldo]

OK slight change of plan.

1: Fit Catbacks next week.
2. Have an EDIT the following week
3: Check it out and see if Diff mod required

Thanks again everybody for your invaluable advice. I'll keep you posted on how it all goes.
Well, that's a great start. But bear in mind that if you do the diff (and you should and you probably will) it will need to go back to the edit tuner to change the speedo, so you might want to kill 2 birds. Also, the GTS maf pipe and 2 hole is the cheapest easiest KW you will get. Have fun. :driving: ;)

[markone2]

Hi again Colin,


http://www.comeracing.com/ as to the "ditch the MAF" issue. Look on the menu under "latest feature" for a comment that they retained the MAF on the big stroker, for reasons they state there. In other words, some confirmation of what advice you have been given above.

.


It must be true then....its on the internet :doh:

[stato]

Ok markone2, you say ditch the MAF, COME say don't. That raises the issue; it does not settle it. How dull would life be without competing experts?

Hereunder my email to COME Racing.


Hi Guys,

Just out of respect I thought I should say that on Ls1.com there is a current thread called "WK Statesman V8", on which I am Stato. On page 4, I gave your website and in particular your comments about the stroker Ls1 as authority for the proposition that it would be reasonable to retain the MAF on a mild, torque orientated modification programme for an Ls1. A poster named markone2 says throw the MAF into the deep blue sea.

I don't know whether you have the time or inclination to enter into correspondence about such a thing. Your call.

Kind regards,

John.

PS I have dealt with you. Bought a cam from you on your recommendation for a friend whose 350 Chev I built years ago. Your help and recommendations were excellent, as was the cam itself.


markone2,your comment "it is on the internet, it must be true" is meaningless in the present context, in the sense that COME, and in particular Sam Blumenstein, are not merely or relevantly "on the internet". COME RACING is a business of long standing: one may correspond with them, telephone them, visit them, one may speak to their customers...you get the general idea.

Might I commend to you a few thoughts from Bertrand Russell?

"In studying a new philosopher" (internet poster) "the right attitude is neither reverence nor contempt, but first a kind of hypothetical sympathy, until it is possible to know what it feels like to believe in his theories, and only then a revival of the critical attitude, which should resemble, as far as possible, a state of mind of a person abandoning opinions which he has hitherto held. Contempt interferes with the first part of this process, and reverence the second.Two things are to be remembered: that a man whose opinions and theories are worth studying may be presumed to have some intelligence, but that no man is likely to have arrived at complete and final truth on any subject whatever." (including the vexed question of whether to ditch one's MAF sensor.)

Bertrand Russell, History of Western Philosophy, Allen & Unwin, London, 1946.
p58.

Cheers.

[VooDoo]

Stato, there will always be differences in opinion. The MAf vs Mafless debate has raged for years now. I believe Mafless is better as do most tuners. COME dont tune they just sell parts so its a little unfair to say they dont know whats best as they are releying on info they are given (normally a little out of date) They also still offer "chips" as well which are proven to be inferior. Do they work at increasing power... yes. Is it the best ... No. Just because a high profile company says something doesnt make it true

Some very high profile companies still offer SS Inductions CAI even though its been proven to be less effective than a Monaro CaI. People have to make a living and they sell what makes them money. If you feel with your research that a MAF is best for you then thats what you buy. Others may choose differently but thats for individuals to decide.

Mark has the runs on the board and chose a Mafless tune. I took his advice and am 100% happy.

BTW, this site is ls1.com.au not the American ls1.com COME will never find a thread on the american site about Stato's :D

[markone2]

Thankyou Voodoo.....you have saved me a long post :) ...Come are not LS1 tuners...2/ Come sell uni-chips.. 3/ G&D discovered new found Horses in the unopened class by going to a mafless tune...


*Come's* good points...experts with the older Holden V8's

ps..as regards my comment on throwing the Maf to the deep blue sea ;) ..
I wish to amend that to throw as far as possible out to sea with stick of jelly attached.....

[stato]

Further to my earlier post in which I set out a number of web addresses, I must apologise for mis-spelling Martin Donnon's sirname.

The article in which he commented on the exhaust manifold question (and said "stock cast headers are ugly looking things, but on the Ls1 they work better than some would have you believe") was in Street Commodores January 2002, page 90.

He wrote a worthwhile article on the Ls1 edit in Zoom magazine, issue 59, page 73.

OK, don't shoot me, as I have said (in relation to the Ls1) I am just the messenger, and post in good faith. Have built plenty of fast cars and bikes in my time, just not yet an Ls1. Have always found the build in the mind is a valid way to go before picking up the spanners....

[stato]

Hi markone2 and VooDoo,

Well said!

Thanks for letting me off lightly guys, anybody who can put up with my bloody nonsense at this late stage of the week/day has my respect.

BTW markone2, dig the name, I once built a Mark II Jag, that is the sixties jigger rather than the Series 2 (one of which I drove for years as well). I put a Chev 350 in the Mk II and was never beaten in a street drag until I came up against a bloke in a twin turbo supra. I took him lightly because I didn't know what it was and man could that thing go. But like I say it was the only car that beat me fair and square. I once streeted a bloke in a Commodore and we pulled up at the next lights, he said "what are you running in that thing, man?" "Little Jag Six, you can get em going, you know." "Bullshit" "Ah, shucks, you got me, its a 350 Chevy" "I just spent forty grand on this thing, can't get anywhere near you."

Took a bloke for a ride who raced a Mk II, met up with him over some parts. For about five ks just burbled along just trying to keep a straight face, and he was saying all sorts of clever things as we drove about the comparison of the power, all this stuff, (he was an engineer, actually) I was almost in tears of laughter inside knowing what I knew, waiting for some open road Then when I booted it, shall we say "stunned silence"!! Actually, his silence was eloquent, cos it used to get very sideways...then he uttered the "F" word!

Anyway, here's to goodwill on the net, cheers for now.

[markone2]

Ah yes :) Jags...we must compare notes one day stato

[ColinS]

Sorry guys, but had to put the modifications on hold for a couple of weeks. Have to go to the Whitsundays for 2 weeks (what a bugger) so will start the program upon my return and advise of outcomes in due course.
BTW: Apart from owning Caprices & DeVilles since 1973 ( some models great, others not so) I did purchase a brand new Jaguar Sovereign in 1985. I wish I had never sold it in 1997 (and wouldn't have if I had had enough car parking space). Apart from some minor problems it served us well and will always be remembered with great affection. I am just about to part with a VR Caprice with 135K on the clock and this car will be sorely missed also. I hope the WK Stateman serves me as well as she has done.

[ColinS]

Well!! A couple of weeks turned into more than 12 months. :o

Became very busy since my last post and hadn't got round to doing a thing with the Statesman. To cut a long story short, I was given an SS CAI system as a gift and had it fitted by SS at the Gold Coast yesterday.

Although I haven't done a thing to the exhaust, the difference was tremendous from a starting position with much more throttle response. I know that is subjective and I have not had any sort of dyno test but I am very happy so far.

Given my son's car as a comparison, I think the exhaust mods are still needed to give that boost of torque from about 80 k's on, although that too is much improved with the CAI. I will never know whether just doing the 2nd hole mod would have achieved the same, but I couldn't refuse the gift, could I?

Anyway, aplogies for not reporting in sooner and I thank you all for all the advice.

[smoke]

Keep on modding :D :D

[Dickie Knee]

How the hell did I miss this thread :eek: :confused:

Sounds like you have some good info to start you off there Col.

Don't forget to post some pix up in the The Lux-0-Barge Gallery.

Gallery Here (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37339)

[ColinS]

I should have mentioned what the CAI entailed.

The SS CAI plus SS MAF, plus SS Throttle Body Plus SS induction pipe (Flexible)