TBS dyno day

[manni295]

Just got some info from the Brock Shop dyno day. There black ute made 230 rw/kw in shootout mode. Only mods done there exhaust system, thermostate mod, big pipe from throttle body to a standard air flow meter. ecu upgrade using there own computer tuning software, has anyone else seen these numbers, on another vehicle? :)

[Red CV8 R]

Probably a couple of hundred thousand other LS1s tuned with edit... :D

[brock05]

sounds about right for those mods, exhaust and tune are what gives the bolt on power.

[manni295]

:) i thought you had to have a heap of bolt on mods, and also a mafless tune to make these numbers, out of a std LS1 engine?

[Red CV8 R]

Nah exhuast and tune should get you those figures, some make even better figures.

[manni295]

:) Thanks, but i am i little confused now, i have been reading most of the threads, and most of the guys have been saying that you can only get that sort of power with a mafless tune, cold air box, large throttle body etc etc, whats realy going on guys? :(

[Red CV8 R]

An LS1 edit Mafless tune is good for a few more kws over a similar maf tune but throttle bodies dont seem to add any power. The Cai used by most guys is the factory job with a hole cut in it. It varies but a Maf tune can achieve the power output you are discussing.

[VYMaloo]

I didn't think TBS used Edit !!

[brock05]

they don't as stated here - ecu upgrade using there own computer tuning software,

[ROARZ]

Yes - 230rwkw is not bad for exhaust and MAF edit. Just goes to show there are many ways to skin a cat... They may not have LS1 Edit (too expensive for a workshop that works on many makes and models), but they can still edit the computer, and knowing how to tune the complete package is still they key (as all the tuners will tell you).

[manni295]

so how come those boys can do that and most of the other guys tell you you have to run this and that to get those numbers from a std LS1.

[XLR8 V8]

so how come those boys can do that and most of the other guys tell you you have to run this and that to get those numbers from a std LS1.

There will always be differing opinions on what is the "best" solution for making power out of an LS1, and to be honest, 2 people could tell you two completely different methods and yet they might BOTH be right. Fortunately, the tuning shops and hardcore LS1 owners that frequent this site are constantly working on alternative methods for making power and giving us feedback on what does what - to enable each person to make their own judgement on what is the best solution for them.

[ROARZ]

so how come those boys can do that and most of the other guys tell you you have to run this and that to get those numbers from a std LS1.
Many roads lead to China. Each performance supplier has put a ton of energy into finding a combination that returns the best results. As long as they can demonstrate it using a dyno, and they can back it up with after sales service, then you're all good. Each combination will have a price too.

In TBS's case, the combination of the edit and their exhaust system is key to making the numbers. You will get plenty of feedback from people that the TBS exhaust system is "twice" as expensive as the other systems you can buy, but sometimes there is a good reason for that. The TBS system is stainless steel and incorporates a bunch of IP that they've built up on the track over many years.

[markone2]

Many roads lead to China. Each performance supplier has put a ton of energy into finding a combination that returns the best results. As long as they can demonstrate it using a dyno, and they can back it up with after sales service, then you're all good. Each combination will have a price too.

In TBS's case, the combination of the edit and their exhaust system is key to making the numbers. You will get plenty of feedback from people that the TBS exhaust system is "twice" as expensive as the other systems you can buy, but sometimes there is a good reason for that. The TBS system is stainless steel and incorporates a bunch of IP that they've built up on the track over many years.


Sorry wywalk :confused: but did you say track?...as in a Willowbank track..the black Willowbank track...lets talk TBS unopened numbers on that Willowbank Track in question..then talk price of exhaust plus ecu upgrade and it's a blo*dy long long road to China if your floundering in the low 14's for those sort of $$$$$$ ;) ...enough so to make grown men :bawl: ..imho

[VooDoo]

Id be interested to see any of these "TBS" cars that they have had on the track. Any racetrack in fact. Its all well and good using a name to get punters in from the car yards for "upgrades" but its different when talking in here to ppl that have a bit more experiance. Charging 2-3 times as much for things doesnt make them 2-3 times as good.

[ROARZ]

Mark - No, I meant track generically. They've been building track cars for almost 20 years, and their cars have been on all the major tracks around the country. They certainly don't focus specifically on LS1's at Willowbank, but I don't think any of the LS1 tuners in Brisbane do that. I would think that any 307rwhp LS1 that was floundering in the 14's would have to look at track conditions, tyres, or driver experience for cause. I would think that a bog stock LS1 would pull a low 14.

Stewart - Nations Cup, V8 Brutes, Saloon Car, etc. Every major race track in Australia. Regarding 1/4 mile, Branco's 383 that is 4th of the Street Commodores Top 10 list for Qld has a TBS built engine (noting Trent's is in position 1 :)). That should cover off any experience concerns you mentioned. The price for LS1 mods are currently set in a very competitive environment, so I'm sure they arbitrage themselves to a level that suits the market. Cost leadership versus value leadership is a very detailed topic - but your statement is true - price doesn't always dictate value - but the market is usually quick to resolve the issue.

TBS have been building their own in-house LS1 stainless exhaust systems and editing LS1 ECU's since they were released in Australia. They've always had their own inhouse dyno equipment to test what they do. They have plenty of opportunity to road test and track test the results of their work. Danielle has been professionally racing Commodores on the tracks around Australia for the last couple of years, and that has given them plenty of opportunity to slip in the odd test of their own personal cars as well.

[Thunder]

Every car is different.

We put an exhaust, extractors, billet maf, SS Reductions CAI, billet throttle body and maf pipe on a VX M6 and it got 242rwkw without being edited. After a Dick tune it got 247rwkw. It should go a lot better with our "Over the Radiator" CAI in a couple of weeks time.

Yet other cars with similar mods and after a Dick tune have only got around 210 - 220rwkw.

[markone2]

Mark - No, I meant track generically. They've been building track cars for almost 20 years, and their cars have been on all the major tracks around the country. They certainly don't focus specifically on LS1's at Willowbank, but I don't think any of the LS1 tuners in Brisbane do that. I would think that any 307rwhp LS1 that was floundering in the 14's would have to look at track conditions, tyres, or driver experience for cause. I would think that a bog stock LS1 would pull a low 14.

.
That's exactly the point I am trying to make here wywalk. Bog stock Commodores have been running low 14's with a couple pulling high 13's and of course the Silver bog stock Monaro which ran 13.5.....Those TBS tuned unopened cars that have ventured trackwise at Willowbank have been running no better than stockers!
Perhaps it's high time TBS put a customers unopened car down the strip and into the 12's or low 13's because it has not happened in the last 16 months...
no matter what the glossy full page adverts in the car magazines hint at .....power wise.

[markone2]

Every car is different.

We put an exhaust, extractors, billet maf, SS Reductions CAI, billet throttle body and maf pipe on a VX M6 and it got 242rwkw without being edited. After a Dick tune it got 247rwkw. It should go a lot better with our "Over the Radiator" CAI in a couple of weeks time.

.
And it should run 112mph + at the end of the 1/4.......does it :confused:

[manni295]

:) where did the car come from, that won the ford, holden dyno shoot out recently? Was it not a red vx ss from TBS, and I was told it is driven to brisbane city every day? I spoke to mark the dyno operator and he was very impressed with the power and the way it drove onto the dyno, as in not hunting and bucking. Come on guys i dont know much about cars but looking at all the threads, you should not dump so much on one company,
i think you should ask the tuners in the know, about who is good and who is not, and all the good tuners will not comment, i know because i have tryed to get them to give me an answer. I do know that TBS has been in the game for nearly 20 years in Brisbane, and they are the first to do any mods on any vehicle released, i have been there and had an oportunity, to see the place and they have some serious equipment there, i think what you will find is that they do not suffer time wasters. As for their track cars, they have been building cars from the time they opened. Drag racing? I want a car that goes and stops and especially goes around corners? Not just in a straight line, and what about when it is raining? I want to be safe, all i want is some straight answers, not company bashing. :(

[manni295]

I have asked the same questions, the boys at TBS tell me that they give out alot of stickers, and god knows what cars they go on. Not everyone car race a car. Icould only manage a high 14 in my stock VT LS1 sedan manual, and my mate called me a skirt, so i let him drive the next run and he pulled a 14.1
So how can you dump on TBS when I have been in the situation when my mates have dumped on me, for not been able to get the full potential out of my std VT?

[ROARZ]

Those TBS tuned unopened cars that have ventured trackwise at Willowbank have been running no better than stockers!

C'mon Mark - I didn't expect you to start sniping away.

First of all - ET is not an accurate indicator of HP, MPH is. As I've been learning first hand, ET can be dramatically affected by conditions and driver ability, so there's no point having this discussion over 14 second ET's.

However, MPH can be fairly easily obtained by any skill driver, so of "those" TBS cars you refer to, how was their MPH? Have you got some hard data to share with us? I'm all for healthy debate, but I'd like to work on facts and figures, not broad statements.

Out of interest, was your MPH down on Wednesday night? If so, by how much? Mine was down by 4 MPH. Does that mean conditions played a part in the lower MPH, or is my car less powerful this week?

[markone2]

:) where did the car come from, that won the ford, holden dyno shoot out recently? Was it not a red vx ss from TBS, and I was told it is driven to brisbane city every day? I spoke to mark the dyno operator and he was very impressed with the power and the way it drove onto the dyno, as in not hunting and bucking. Come on guys i dont know much about cars but looking at all the threads, you should not dump so much on one company,
:(


Damn… :doh: I was hoping no one would bring that particular point up
Firstly the Red VX in question that pulled off the Holden / Ford day dyno comp so recently is tuned and maintained by Bob Romanos..Not TBS. :thump:

2/ It was this same car that so mysteriously found a 20rwkw gain from the Saturday night to Sunday morning whilst parked at the show…. :confused:

Thirdly / the very same high powered piggyback unopened vehicle then turned up parked in the lanes beside me at Willowbank raceway a short time later…this car and driver ventures to the track on more than the odd occasion with BR’s boys in tow to ensure the car is performing at its peak…
On this day so shortly after the dyno comp the VX surprised us all by turning in its best ever run down Willowbank’s blacktop… an earth shattering 13.8 with all that mumbo turning the rear treads…..
Little Red car following out onto the track directly behind turned in a respectable 12.43 pass on the same track in the same conditions…a full 10mph faster . a little below par I admit, but quite sufficient to show who had the real 219rwkw power and who had a was running on Claytons rwkw

Those tuners with ethics do not go round bad mouthing the opposition, so you will have to dig deeper in your quest for knowledge ...most likely why your here..but of course if $4000 plus on a piggyback and exhaust complete with a pretty bit of paper is what your after,then you need look no further..just don't ask it to perform when put to a the acid test.

:eek: Hunting and bucking..now that is grasping at straws with the unopened edited cars and quite a few of the H/C combos …perhaps some sworn affidavits from the parents and kids little red car drives around on Sports day might suffice.

[markone2]

So how can you dump on TBS when I have been in the situation when my mates have dumped on me, for not been able to get the full potential out of my std VT?

Buy an Auto and your driving woes are over :D

[Mongy]

I think if they have made those numbers from just those mods they have done well. There are a number of things to consider though, and the biggest one is that peak gain is only part of the story. I would like to see a graph of its run to see if it is making good power in the midrange or if it is just a "peak wonder". I know mine did not make a lot of 'peak" gains with edit but midrange gains were what made me happy. It is horses for courses. **Maybe one day we will be able to have a test that everybody agrees will be the ultimate test and all our problems will be solved**. Just out of interest I'd like to know more about what was done, what it made pre modification etc, I am one eyed towards Powertorque but I still like to know what other shops are up to. :burnout:

[markone2]

C'mon Mark - I didn't expect you to start sniping away.

First of all - ET is not an accurate indicator of HP, MPH is. As I've been learning first hand, ET can be dramatically affected by conditions and driver ability, so there's no point having this discussion over 14 second ET's.

However, MPH can be fairly easily obtained by any skill driver, so of "those" TBS cars you refer to, how was their MPH? Have you got some hard data to share with us? I'm all for healthy debate, but I'd like to work on facts and figures, not broad statements.

Out of interest, was your MPH down on Wednesday night? If so, by how much? Mine was down by 4 MPH. Does that mean conditions played a part in the lower MPH, or is my car less powerful this week?


Of course conditions play a major part in mph and ET…but I ask you?. same track / same day / same conditions….and lest we not forget I am the bunny who has pulled up at the tower to collect my time slips along with those same TBS tuned cars I have raced..I am the one who watches these guys apprehensively pick up there time slips after racing little red car with a look of utter amazement on there face. The amazement turning to forlorn hope as the same 2 questions are always asked …
*you running a supercharger?*..or the most popular one *what size cam?*.
I 'm the one who watched the sheer disbelief on there faces when told the car was unopened and LS1 mafless tuned
I am the one who has seen grown guys eyes mist over as they tell me what they believed there cars capable of with there new tunes.
I am the one who has seen these people depart the track with sheer bloody murder in there eyes.
These are the guys I am barracking for..the ones who where expecting best bang for there hard earned dollars.


ps....Quote..C'mon Mark - I didn't expect you to start sniping away.
;) Sorry wywalk..but you should know by now that the mention of TBS is akin to waving a red flag at a bull...a very angry bull at that :)

[Mongy]

I have asked the same questions, the boys at TBS tell me that they give out alot of stickers, and god knows what cars they go on. Not everyone car race a car. Icould only manage a high 14 in my stock VT LS1 sedan manual, and my mate called me a skirt, so i let him drive the next run and he pulled a 14.1
So how can you dump on TBS when I have been in the situation when my mates have dumped on me, for not been able to get the full potential out of my std VT?
If you did high 14's on your first run in a stock VT, you did well. If your mate could do better it does not mean you are a skirt by any means, it just means you probably need to have a few runs to work out what works and what doesn't work. He probably only fluked a better time anyhow. At least you went out and had a go, and if your mates dumped you because of that they were not worth having anyway. We don't necessarily "dump" on TBS, lets just say we have a healthy scepticism where they are concerned from things that have happened in the past. I too went to them once with my old VUII when I knew no better, and have since found out that the advice I was given, while technically was correct, and the claims could have been lived up to on a dyno, was not necessarily the best, most cost effective way to get good horsepower gains across the board. They have probably come up with something better now, so lets hear about it and we can make up our own minds on whether we think it is good or bad.

[markone2]

If you did high 14's on your first run in a stock VT, you did well. If your mate could do better it does not mean you are a skirt by any means, it just means you probably need to have a few runs to work out what works and what doesn't work. He probably only fluked a better time anyhow. At least you went out and had a go, and if your mates dumped you because of that they were not worth having anyway. We don't necessarily "dump" on TBS, lets just say we have a healthy scepticism where they are concerned from things that have happened in the past. I too went to them once with my old VUII when I knew no better, and have since found out that the advice I was given, while technically was correct, and the claims could have been lived up to on a dyno, was not necessarily the best, most cost effective way to get good horsepower gains across the board. They have probably come up with something better now, so lets hear about it and we can make up our own minds on whether we think it is good or bad.


Mongy..I believe you are worthy of an overseas posting…a fine Diplomat in the making ;)

[ROARZ]

Damn… :doh: I was hoping no one would bring that particular point up Firstly the Red VX in question that pulled off the Holden / Ford day dyno comp so recently is tuned and maintained by Bob Romanos..Not TBS. :thump:


The Red VX SS that won the Holden v Ford dyno comp with 701.9 rwhp is and always has been a TBS built and maintained car. It is my car, and I vouch for who has done the work. They first modified it at the beginning of 2001, and scores of VT Series II LS1's had been through there prior to the arrival of my brand new VX Series I. Given the 875fwhp/701rwhp numbers, clearly TBS know something about these LS1's. These are still the best numbers for a stock block LS1 in Australia.


2/ It was this same car that so mysteriously found a 20rwkw gain from the Saturday night to Sunday morning whilst parked at the show…. :confused:

Not mysterious. Engine temp (and intake temp) was 4 degrees cooler on Sunday, and that alone explains the gain. Just like keeping your intake cool at the drags, engine temp management is key to producing big numbers. That is why the HP heroes guys are going for water-to-air intercoolers to ensure they can get consistently high HP runs back to back.


Thirdly / the very same high powered piggyback unopened vehicle then turned up parked in the lanes beside me at Willowbank raceway a short time later…this car and driver ventures to the track on more than the odd occasion with BR’s boys in tow to ensure the car is performing at its peak…

We've already established that you're talking about a different car, because no piggyback unopened vehicle is going to make 701rwhp, but with reference to my car to date 12.65 is the best ET, and 122 is the best MPH - AND you're still kicking my ass!!! :) I'm okay with that, because it's driver skill, traction, and track conditions that are impacting my times - NOT the quality of the car. TBS has not yet been to the track with me, but I am able to take my data back to TBS for analysis because my piggyback is a M800 Motec with the logging option.


On this day so shortly after the dyno comp the VX surprised us all by turning in its best ever run down Willowbank’s blacktop… an earth shattering 13.8 with all that mumbo turning the rear treads…..

See above. The 122 mph is somewhat governed by the gearing, as my M6 with 3.46 diff gears and 40 profile semi-comps will mathematically limit the top speed to 126 mph. I haven't begun to seriously worry about intake air temp management yet, as I need to get my 1/4 skills down pat first.


Those tuners with ethics do not go round bad mouthing the opposition, so you will have to dig deeper in your quest for knowledge ...most likely why your here..but of course if $4000 plus on a
piggyback and exhaust complete with a pretty bit of paper is what your after,then you need look no further..just don't ask it to perform when put to a the acid test.

No bad mouthing of others here, and the TBS Ute at the beginning of this thread uses the stock computer. No piggyback required. I don't know if your pricing is up to date, but I'm sure people are calling all the shops in Brisbane to compare numbers. That kind of data is pretty easy to get.

Hope this helps,
Brett

[ROARZ]

Buy an Auto and your driving woes are over :D

Auto limits your capabilites on Qld Raceway though... Optimum cornering is still easiest if you can select your gears. Dyin' for a tiptronic box for the V8 Commodore... :) Won't be long now, with the VZ getting one for the V6...

[manni295]

:D sorry boys but i just asked a question, but if we are going to start dumping on people, lets ask WHY markone2 has such a hard on about TBS, i have been there and found them to be pleasent enough. they gave me a bag of diffrent combos, and all at different prices. What i asked about was that the TBS ute made some good numbers with little work done to it. They did showed me the exhaust, it has stainless steel hand made mufflers, and they use H.M.HEADER s/s tri y extractors. all twin 2.5" mild steel pipe, mandrel bends, and they weld it all together, nice job. I realy like the sound it makes, i listen to alot of LS1 but the TBS exhaust has a sound of its own. But back to my question is that just a freak engine? For TBS to still be in buisness after 20yrs at the same place i think that they cant all be that bad, i know that we all get the poos with some shops as i have also, but i know theres two sides to every story, so lets not get into shop bashing descushion, and lets try and get some answers. mark i think its about time you built a bridge and got over it. Or tell us what your beef is, sounds like you got what you asked for and it must have backfired in your face. :box:

[markone2]

Hope this helps,
Brett


:(
Nope.......not at all...your fine vehicle *Roars* is not the car in question here.
The car is the Red VX Clubsport that took out the unopened class at the show...and a long long long way from 701rwhp ;)

As I stated the car is running a piggy-back chip and tuned and maintained by
BR..not TBS.

[markone2]

:D sorry boys but i just asked a question, but if we are going to start dumping on people, lets ask WHY markone2 has such a hard on about TBS, i have been there and found them to be pleasent enough. they gave me a bag of diffrent combos, and all at different prices. What i asked about was that the TBS ute made some good numbers with little work done to it. They did showed me the exhaust, it has stainless steel hand made mufflers, and they use H.M.HEADER s/s tri y extractors. all twin 2.5" mild steel pipe, mandrel bends, and they weld it all together, nice job. I realy like the sound it makes, i listen to alot of LS1 but the TBS exhaust has a sound of its own. But back to my question is that just a freak engine? For TBS to still be in buisness after 20yrs at the same place i think that they cant all be that bad, i know that we all get the poos with some shops as i have also, but i know theres two sides to every story, so lets not get into shop bashing descushion, and lets try and get some answers. mark i think its about time you built a bridge and got over it. Or tell us what your beef is, sounds like you got what you asked for and it must have backfired in your face. :box:

Your dead right I got what I wanted..12.231 @ 112.42mph with the benefit of
a mafless Edit tune on an stock engine :p
Why do I have such beef with TBS :eek: ..that is one road you do not want travel here on the public forums.. :deal:
If your happy with your treatment at TBS then go ahead and open your wallet for them..it's your car .your cash to do what ever you wish with...Exhaust sound..well I see little value in spending over $1200 on extractors and off the shelf pacemakers.they are after all powering the fastest unopened LS1 on street tyres in Australia........don't sound half bad either.....if I might say so myself :D

But tell you what.. :idea: .why not give us the benefit of your expert opinion

Watch listen. and observe an unopened LS1 in full flight.....http://www.grunter.com.au/files/marksv1247.mpg

[manni295]

Sorry to hear that mark, as the ROAR car is concerned they have build the gruntiest stock block LS1 to date in AUSSI, wich they probably will get knocked off soon. But they have come up with the goods. I would hate to think how much it cost to build, but it would be heaps? :( IT TAKES A GREAT MAN TO LIKE HIS WOUNDS AND MOVE ON :D I dont really want to put a cam in my car, as it isnt that old. But i am still interested how they got those numbers out of a unopened LS1. It even runs a std air cleaner system! It would be good for some all round discushion, not shop dumping, i am sure we can all dump on a shop somewhere. Yes it is my money and my car, but i have also seen and spoken to a few others, who have had work done, and are not happy with were they got there tune. My thing is also heavy on fuel, compared to my VT SS.

[Roddy]

Why do I have such beef with TBS :eek: ..that is one road you do not want travel here on the public forums.. :deal:


Could it be something to do with this gem from their website?

Enhancing your (LS1) vehicle with the Stainless Steel Extractors, 2 ½" Exhaust System, Air Flow Meter,and Fuel Computer will produce up to 300KW

Price for such 300kw mods, as quoted on the site?

$4650 :eek:

[BLACK 346]

Could it be something to do with this gem from their website?

Enhancing your (LS1) vehicle with the Stainless Steel Extractors, 2 ½" Exhaust System, Air Flow Meter,and Fuel Computer will produce up to 300KW

Price for such 300kw mods, as quoted on the site?

$4650 :eek:

Jeezus thats expensive. You can easily hit 300kw
for around $1600, cat back exhaust, edit and mcai,
could probly even skip the exhaust with the VY series.
Chuck on some headers for sound and your still about
$2500 richer.

[VooDoo]

Jeezus thats expensive. You can easily hit 300kw
for around $1600, cat back exhaust, edit and mcai,
could probly even skip the exhaust with the VY series.
Chuck on some headers for sound and your still about
$2500 richer.


Manni295: Thats why some of us have issues with TBS. If your happy to spend 2-3 times what you need to for similar (or in many cases less power) then your free to do so. Even Brett has admitted that with the knowledge he has now it may not have gone the TBS route he chose and next time would do things differently. HE is happy with the results he got but they came at a price.

[ROARZ]

:(
Nope.......not at all...your fine vehicle *Roars* is not the car in question here.
The car is the Red VX Clubsport that took out the unopened class at the show...and a long long long way from 701rwhp ;)

As I stated the car is running a piggy-back chip and tuned and maintained by
BR..not TBS.

Doh! Okay... Romano... Got it! Yes - I know they are still doing piggy back systems, even with their supercharged LS1 setups...

[manni295]

Thanks for the reply, i asked brett the same question why TBS, his words were, at the time he was looking around, they came up with the answers that he was asking, were everyone else was being very vaig, and at the time of building there wasnt even a gilmore belt set available yet for the LS1. TBS had to make one. But i guess you only get what you pay for. I have been down the road of cheap and have been duded, YES i have to say it was a good job and yes it makes X kw@wheels, because i dont want others to know
Yet i have run into guys that have had work done at TBS and they are more than happy with there results. just looking for some reasonable answers. :(

[Mongy]

Could it be something to do with this gem from their website?

Enhancing your (LS1) vehicle with the Stainless Steel Extractors, 2 ½" Exhaust System, Air Flow Meter,and Fuel Computer will produce up to 300KW

Price for such 300kw mods, as quoted on the site?

$4650 :eek:
And the key words are **produce up to**. They don't guarantee that, they just offer a before and after dyno sheet as proof of improvement. I was offered a change of maf and throttle body, and of course the obligatory dyno sheets to prove an increase in power. I spent nearly half as much at Powertorque and got nearly twice the gains offered at TBS. I am only a simpleton but even I can see I was given a better deal at PT than I was going to get at TBS. TBS would have lived up to their promise of increasing my power though, I am not denying that for one second, but it is things like this that get people off side. I know it is personal choice and if you are comfortable dealing with them and feel you are getting the best value for your dollar manni295 that is your choice, but some of us are not comfortable with what they offer so we go to where we feel we get looked after and get the best possible service and value for our hard earned $, and in Brisvegas that happens to be Powertorque. At the end of the day all of our forum sponsors do an excellent job of looking after forum members and giving value for money service, you see very very few complaints about a forum sponsors work, mainly you will see accolades.

[ROARZ]

TBS website is out of date folks. I spoke to them today, and they will get it updated asap.

If anyone wants to chat about my experiences with TBS with me in detail, just PM me. They've got plenty of results of their own to share, but they're not a sponsor of the forum, so I won't go blasting too much content on here unnecessarily. They can do that if they want to... :)

PowerTorque is a great supplier - no question about that.


And the key words are **produce up to**.
Sound business practice to use words like that in documentation - probably not sinister in intent.


I spent nearly half as much at Powertorque and got nearly twice the gains offered at TBS.
Mongy - I'd be interested in hearing more about what you did, what it cost, and what the result was (dyno or 1/4 MPH would do). Is there a thread I can go read, or could you post some details here, or just PM me? Thanks.

[REDHOT SS]

Well done Brett, you copped that barrage of 'shop bashing' very diplomatically, i know i wouldn't have!

C'Mon guys, how can anyone compare 2 vehicles 1/4 mile performances based on rwkw readings alone?? Have we forgotten to compare factors such as diff ratio's, stall convertors and tyre diameter/construction? It's only natural that a vehicle with a hi-stall and lower diff ratio is going to be quicker over the quarter than a vehicle with a standard convertor and gears regardless of rwkw! Because a car can win a dyno comp doesn't automatically mean it's going to be fast on the track and vice versa.

Not trying to take sides, just trying to compare apples with apples!

Cheers.

[manni295]

:D well done redhot ss, and wywalk, i did not know that this would start into a shop dumping session, sounds like and looks like if you dont use the sponsors of this site, which do good work, you're not worth talking about and you get dumped on. Anybody can fudge dyno figures.
I have been show how it has been done a lote of diffrent ways. You all say that you do not need to spend more than $1200.00 on a exhaust system, how come the exhaust shops are not full of V8 supercars? From the past experiances i have had with my past rides, i did get a $900.00 full exhaust system, and when things started to go wrong, it was not the exhausts fault it was something on tyhe car that was wrong. After spending heaps of dollars and nearly disapearing up my own ar* , i was told i would have to change the exhaust system. After alot of heart break i did change the exhaust to a full H.M.Header system, all of my problems ceased. I tried to get my money back from the exhaust shop, but that never happened, now we all have these storys, how come you guys are not dumping on them? As i said i have spoken to people that have had work done at TBS, and they have had problems, If there problem is genuine and they dont try to pull the wool over there eyes they fix it at no cost. You talk about 1/4 mile figures, how much money have you spent to get your car set up to go down the strip, as in shocks and springs, trick tyres? etc etc, you dont just get it tuned with an edite and do 11+ sec down the quarter, sounds like we are all been told half stories. someone said earlyer, we soud put all our ideas together and try and find the best, for our bucks. I KNOW THAT TRYING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING DOES NOT WORK, AND YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Yes everybody can get the same about KW figure but how does the vehicle drive in traffic, does it get hot? how much fuel does it chew now? Like the ROARS car nobody dumps on that. Thats a TBS car and yes it probably cost alot of money, but at the time nobody gave straight answers, TBS took it on, nobody had ever done it before, now that it has been done, it make 700+ at the wheels, and is driven through Brisbane city traffic every day, yer but you paid to much for it. NOBODY in Australia has built this combo using a stock LS1 block, not a steel block like everyone else recomends. I dont know if i will go to TBS or not, all i wanted was to find out what was a good deal. If you feel so strong about TBS why dont you go and speak to them, i would if i was not happy with what i got. Is this aclosed shop on this forum??? :box:

[markone2]

:D well done redhot ss, and wywalk, i did not know that this would start into a shop dumping session,
You all say that you do not need to spend more than $1200.00 on a exhaust system,
You talk about 1/4 mile figures, how much money have you spent to get your car set up to go down the strip, as in shocks and springs, trick tyres? etc etc, you dont just get it tuned with an edite and do 11+ sec down the quarter, sounds like we are all been told half stories.
. I KNOW THAT TRYING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING DOES NOT WORK, AND YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
Yes everybody can get the same about KW figure but how does the vehicle drive in traffic, does it get hot? how much fuel does it chew now? :

Ummm an amusing little script full of scepticism and disbelief I actually find rather funny …you started this thread asking for answers, by your own admittance you own an unmodified Gen111 that suck’s a truckload of fuel.
Myself and others have attempted to guide you in the right direction by virtue of personal experience and much trail and error with input gathered from Gen111 owners from all over Australia….it appears you believe our well intended advice to be a croak of Sh*t…………..
You express disbelief a $1200 all up exhaust system is not good enough..fine spend $3000…but I will give you this advice for free..*Noyworx* Ph 3205 4342
who quite possibly have had over 80% of Brisbane’s modified and stock Gen111’s through there workshop.. ..if anyone’s ever complained about the quality of there workmanship I’ve yet to hear about it…only catch is they may only charge you $1200 all up for a perfectly good system. :eek:

What does it cost to run 12 seconds on a stock Auto gen111 ? .well follow the direction your heading I would estimate in excess of $10,000…

What does it cost to run 12 seconds unopened by listening to the advice on offer.?
Lets do some sums with the time slips to back them up.
1/ Mafless edit tune $1200
2/ Pacemaker tri-y’s with an off the shelf Redback Twin 2&1/2” inch system..
Cost……………….$1200
3/ 3.9 Diff gears…..$1000
4/ Optional…Bridgestone RE55 road legal circuit tyres..why optional? The 12 seconds has been obtained on the original factory spec B530’s..but for arguments sake we shall include them in our shopping basket…..
Cost ………………$800
5/ Shocks and springs..$0.00.original factory equipment

All up expense to run 12.83 seconds down Willowbanks ¼ mile with an unopened stock engined Gen111 VY Commodore using that beautiful edit tune ..$ 4200
Do the above mods make for a car that bucks /jumps and farts at the traffic lights?..no the car drove and still drives like a stock factory car expect with much better response in all rev ranges..driveability improved 10 fold….Strip performance being a side benefit of the LS1 edit tune installed by an expert at his trade
Fuel consumption 13.9 L per 100K’s..city / highway and TRACK….

Want to run mid 12’s and lower on a stock engined unopened Commodore ?
All the above with the addition on a mild mannered 2800 rpm Torque Converter..cost $1000 plus $150.00 for fitting…..Timeslip now at 12.296 on Bridgestone road legal tyres… still averaging 13.9L per 100ks fuel consumption.and still driven by she who must be obeyed at all times on her daily travels

Want to run even faster? Fit MT’s and front runners for a 12.231 @ 112.42mph time slip…

Not fast enough?.still want a mild mannered street Commodore? Add one 222 Comp cam to the above configuration and run 11.943 @ 116.42mph on road legal Bridgestone tyres..

Lest we forget let’s examine the reliability factor..check my sig…258 runs and counting….breakdowns and breakages..nill

Funnily enough most of us here have put our heads together over a period of time to come up with the best bang for $$$$......but sometimes people simply will not listen so I recommend you woddle off down to your nice friends and explain you want car that runs low 12’s with excellent drivability / reliability and uses no more than 13.9L per 100k’s fuel..all for $4200….

Naturally the above post is but a figment of an over active imagination and a half truth at the best….you want more answers. go to Willowbank. watch / listen and ask questions. after all that is were the cars are and the strip tells no lies…. :booty:

[manni295]

:D mark you must have a big lunch box! :)

[Hellbent]

tbs now have vcm suite, how long will it take them 2 get a grip on this new software and get some runs on the board. have a fair bit of work 2 do before they get behind the 8 ball i think.

[VooDoo]

Holey thread mining batman.... Thread is from 2004 mate. Lots of things change.

[frenchyss]

so how come those boys can do that and most of the other guys tell you you have to run this and that to get those numbers from a std LS1.

Because alot of people on this forum dont know what theyre talking about.
Ls1 edit, exhaust system, on a standard ls1 with a kn air filter and aftermarket maf pipe, will give you these figures, ranging from 220-240rwkw dependent on year model. Simple......
cheers...

[VooDoo]

Because alot of people on this forum dont know what theyre talking about.
Ls1 edit, exhaust system, on a standard ls1 with a kn air filter and aftermarket maf pipe, will give you these figures, ranging from 220-240rwkw dependent on year model. Simple......
cheers...

Some shops still sell ported maf's and unichips too. Overall the ppl on this site will save you $1000's and point you in the right direction, as does the search feature.

[XLR8 V8]

Jeez guys, I know we ask everyone to use the search button, but resurrecting a 2 year old dyno day thread is a bit of a stretch.
If you have any questions for TBS, post a new thread in their sponsors forum.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54