Lemon law tested

[SSbaby]

By Leonie Lamont
The Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?article=http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2004/09/03/FFXNTN68NYD.html)
Friday September 3 2004

Holden has taken its appeal over a defective HSV to the Supreme Court, Leonie Lamont reports.

NSW lemon laws were tested in a landmark case in the Supreme Court last week after Holden appealed against a decision by the Department of Fair Trading to compensate an aggrieved customer.

In March, the Office of Fair Trading's Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal found in favour of Andrew Eagleston and against the car he regards as a lemon, when it ordered that Heartland Holden take back his car and refund him $65,000.

It is the only case to date where the tribunal has ordered almost a full refund of a new car's purchase price.

The tribunal accepted Eagleston's claim that the dealership knew the engine was defective when he bought the $75,000 HSV demonstrator sedan in 2001. During the next two years of its warranty, the car was returned to the dealer seven times and had 12 warranty repairs -- mainly to the V8 engine. The tribunal found the car had not provided the use a reasonable motorist would expect.

Appealing against the tribunal's decision, Holden and Heartland argued the tribunal did not have the power or jurisdiction to make such an order and asked that the original decision be quashed and a new hearing held.

Richard Horsley, for the manufacturer and dealer, said he was hampered as there was no transcript of the hearing, in which neither party was legally represented. He said there were a number of errors made by the tribunal, including that it had not considered the legal contractual arrangements among the three parties.

Master Bryan Malpass, who presided over the Supreme Court hearing, told the Holden-Heartland legal team: "I can't understand why your client [Heartland] wouldn't say, 'Give us the car back, here is the money back, let's get on with life'. It seems to be a matter of common sense."

During proceedings, Malpass read aloud the NRMA reports on the vehicle: "Blowing smoke ... the vehicle in its present operating condition would be considered dangerous and unsafe to drive."

He said from the NRMA reports it didn't look like "it was much of a car" and that the tribunal believed further repairs were "not going to solve the problem".

Malpass said it would be "unfortunate for the parties to undergo two hearings".

"One wonders why it is a matter of contest. It doesn't seem to be a very good car."

Horsley said his clients did not agree and that they wanted to repair it. "You can understand the keenness ... We stand by every car we sell," he said.

Malpass is expected to deliver his decision this morning.

For more information on lemon laws, see:
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=100298&catId=100171&tid=100008&p=4

[BA$TAD]

You pay the money for a car that you expect to work, no matter what the brand. How many times must he keep going back to get it "repaired?"

[M&Ms]

Master Bryan Malpass, who presided over the Supreme Court hearing, told the Holden-Heartland legal team: "I can't understand why your client [Heartland] wouldn't say, 'Give us the car back, here is the money back, let's get on with life'. It seems to be a matter of common sense."

Something that I can't understand either... I mean, he paid for a car that he assumed is gonna give no (or minimal) problems... This is a joke, and bad publicity on Holden's behalf. i say, refund the man the total cost of the car plus 10% compensation, and then maybe one day in the future he may consider buying another car from this manufacturer again.

[GTS JaZzA]

Something that I can't understand either... I mean, he paid for a car that he assumed is gonna give no (or minimal) problems... This is a joke, and bad publicity on Holden's behalf. i say, refund the man the total cost of the car plus 10% compensation, and then maybe one day in the future he may consider buying another car from this manufacturer again.

It's lucky you dont work for holden. havent any of you seen how they treat demo cars? its no wonder theres problems with them.

[RICHO]

As the first case of its kidnd Holden will fight this forever to prevent the flood gates from opening. IMO Ford would do the same thing.

For Holden they know there are a significant number of people out there who have had problems at least the equal of the guy in question. If they lose this one, every single person who has experienced similar problems can follow the same path. And that means a huge $$$ cost for Holden.

From a consumers perspective they should quietly pay but as a company they simply can't afford to do it... Any admission of "responsibility" these days is too bloody dangerous for a company to make thanks to the number of ambulance chaser lawyers out there. Nope..Holden will fight this to the absolute end.

[VRIIClubby]

Never going to happen, no matter how much bad pubilicity it is going to give off If HSV/Holden refund him then they stand to loose considerable more amounts of money once a precident has been set...

"All publicity is good publicity"

[SCOTTR8]

jez, you get 1 x rebuild , 2 x clutchs, 2 x condensors, 1 x ess module, 1 x eveperator, 3 x gear shifts, 2 x centre bearings, 1 x steering wheel , 1 x diff chatter kit , 1 x diff rebuild + other shit that ive forgoten about dont all cars play up like this under warranty! but at least my dealer fixed it all

[ultrablue]

ive had bad dealings with heartland and i hope he wins

[BA$TAD]

jez, you get 1 x rebuild , 2 x clutchs, 2 x condensors, 1 x ess module, 1 x eveperator, 3 x gear shifts, 2 x centre bearings, 1 x steering wheel , 1 x diff chatter kit , 1 x diff rebuild + other shit that ive forgoten about dont all cars play up like this under warranty! but at least my dealer fixed it all
:eek: i hope not

[Holdendriver]

Can understand the blokes side of it, it would be a nightmare.
Funny its Heartland, friend of mine had the exact same problem with them,
They had a real don't care attitude to the whole matter, however he gave up and sold the car (VX Clubsport).
After his experience, I bought my last vehicle at another dealer, not the first time I have heard bad things about Heartland.

[Sonnymad]

People have treid to fight holden before and lost everything right down to the house,it was on a current affiar a while ago it was a vb commodore with a faulty rack which caused the guy to have a accident,in my opnion they should just give him a new car and be done with it

[onezero]

I don't know about all publicity being good publicity... especially in this case.

There were so many people turned off of the LS1 powered Holdens due to the whole oil consumption thing; imagine how many people will just get a Ford (or similar sedan) after they hear that when their near new Holden stuffs up big time you're left high and dry.

[spiritfc]

For Holden they know there are a significant number of people out there who have had problems at least the equal of the guy in question. If they lose this one, every single person who has experienced similar problems can follow the same path. And that means a huge $$$ cost for Holden.



Well Holden should make sure they build ALL their cars properly! You can rest assured that he or anyone associated with him will NEVER buy a Holden again.
Plus you will get people who have read the article in the paper and vow not to buy a Holden due to Holdens arrogant and selfish attiutde.
Every car manufacturer will build a 'lemon' but the best thing to do in that case is to admit it, send the car to Sims Metal and give the bloke/women a new car, if that sends GM broke then there must be something really wrong! and I'm a staunch Holden supporter but they have got it REALLY wrong.

[Speedy Gonzales]

It just seems like good business to me if you sell a product or service and the customer is not happy with either, then you exchange for another one or refund their money.

I believe in 3 strikes and out rule, if a car cant be fixed after the 3rd visit, well, good service dictates that you accomadate the customer in the best way.

Case of Eaglestone VS GMH, I really hope he wins, will bring in a set of rules for ALL car manufacturers to abide by, none of this gung ho our product is number 1 it never farks up bullshit you buy it your risk.

The US and Europe have in place lemon laws to protect consumers, so should we.

[Animal]

"All publicity is good publicity"

Unless your name is Wayne Carey, Monica Lewinski, Ivan Malat, Rene Rivkin, ....etc

[GTS]

Just trying to recall all the things that have been done to my GTS under warranty......

Pocket on the rear of the Passenger Seat, the door flap on the storage in the dash center, the clutch slave cylinder X 2 times (its no fun changing gears without a clutch :mad: ), rack boots x 2, new rack, new axle CV's, engine rebuild for oil consumption :confused: , broken valve spring x 3 times :mad: , vacuum hose split x 2 times (caused idle to be 2000 rpm :( ), sump (cracked), oil pump (low pressure), gear shift, reversing light switch (caused all indicators to fail), and the other day I was told my HSV branded floor mats are crook and need to be replaced because the HSV logo is fallen off them. :cool:

My dealer has been FANTASTIC thou, never had a problem with the service, and always been given a loan car. Sunbury Holden have my recomendation. :cool:

[Nobby]

You've been blessed with a good dealer mate, nice choice!

Do you live out that direction or were you 'just driving past' and thought you'd drop in and 'look' at a GTS? :D

[VooDoo]

Ive had 1 x rebuild, 1 x diff, 2 x seat base, 1 x steering wheel, 2 x interior trim, 1 x windscreen, 2 x water leaks.

my next car will most definately be a Holden and from the same dealer. While some things were not fixed first time, they explained what they would do to resolve the issue, kept me informed and all issues were fixed. I never try and claim for things i break and don't expect them to cover things ive modified or damaged due to modifications.The dealer knows exactly whats been done to the car and how i drive it (yes including the drags). Some things i bring up as a concern (worn leather on steering wheel) are treated exceptionally. I didnt expect that to be replaced but within days i get a call to say i have a new wheel awaiting my next service.

Seriously, if i get treated 1/2 as good as i have been id still go there. My dealer is as close to perfect as i could expect. I realise they are there to make a living and that some items may be out of there control. Personally i cant fault them at all. 110% happy with my purchase.

[markone2]

Ive had 1 x rebuild, 1 x diff, 2 x seat base, 1 x steering wheel, 2 x interior trim, 1 x windscreen, 2 x water leaks.


Seriously, if i get treated 1/2 as good as i have been id still go there. My dealer is as close to perfect as i could expect. I realise they are there to make a living and that some items may be out of there control. Personally i cant fault them at all. 110% happy with my purchase.

Ahhh.. :idea: but is this particular Service man not a little :limpy: ..perhaps he fancies ya :booty:

[Mongy]

Ahhh.. :idea: but is this particular Service man not a little :limpy: ..perhaps he fancies ya :booty:
Ahh, so you've heard that as well Mark? I personaly reckon you could get away with murder at your dealer Voodoo, for some reason they just love ya.

[VooDoo]

Im a loveable kinda guy hehehe

The last service guy there looked after me well too. til he defected to Mitsashitty

[tbearz]

Im a loveable kinda guy hehehe

The last service guy there looked after me well too. til he defected to Mitsashitty

Maybe he wanted the quiet life u know, cos if the car company dont sell ne cars then there arent any to come in to be serviced :confused:

[M&Ms]

Just trying to recall all the things that have been done to my GTS under warranty......

Pocket on the rear of the Passenger Seat, the door flap on the storage in the dash center, the clutch slave cylinder X 2 times (its no fun changing gears without a clutch :mad: ), rack boots x 2, new rack, new axle CV's, engine rebuild for oil consumption :confused: , broken valve spring x 3 times :mad: , vacuum hose split x 2 times (caused idle to be 2000 rpm :( ), sump (cracked), oil pump (low pressure), gear shift, reversing light switch (caused all indicators to fail), and the other day I was told my HSV branded floor mats are crook and need to be replaced because the HSV logo is fallen off them. :cool:

My dealer has been FANTASTIC thou, never had a problem with the service, and always been given a loan car. Sunbury Holden have my recomendation. :cool:

God, so what will you be doing after your warranty expires and things fault??

[Falchoon]

12 warranty repairs in 2 years is not that bad...I mean it's not good, it should be none but I've heard of other people having more probs in less time (Fords and Holdens, but not Jap). :o

[One tonner]

In the USA they have anti lemon laws and if the car has too many faults it is replaced or money refunded. www.lemonlawamerica.com/state_laws/index.htm

[V82xist]

There are always two sides to every story also. I have only heard one side, e.g. the guy might be a total dropkick who may have tried to tune the car himself and screwed it up or just plain abused the car.

I always hear the stories but I have never had problems and I work my cars pretty hard. I must say I have only had oil usage in 1 car and that was a fully imported Toyota and after it had done 160,000ks. It was the most costly car to keep on the road but I did buy it second hand where all my Commodores have been new and without fault. I must be just lucky :D

[AndrewCowley]

12 warranty repairs in 2 years is not that bad

You are joking right?

[Nawdy]

Maybe this is just the wake-up call local manufacturers need to start producing quality products first time every time. Wouldn't it be in their own best interests in the long run to do this???

And what do you think Holden would do if they were supplied with inadequate parts/services? Just think 'oh well' and just keep making cars? Yeah sure..... but that's what they expect the end-users (us) to do! If I'm shelling out a large amount of reddies for something, I expect the item to do what it's designed for with minimal problems.

They must have an awfully small QA dept.... :rolleyes:

[Rt!]

when I was looking for a gen3, I got some warranty histories, one car (vt ss)had like 8-9 pages worth of stuff done to it

[Heli]

My dealer has been FANTASTIC thou, never had a problem with the service, and always been given a loan car. Sunbury Holden have my recomendation. :cool:

???? Sunbury Holden aren't an HSV dealer, last time I drove past.....

[GTS]

You've been blessed with a good dealer mate, nice choice!

Do you live out that direction or were you 'just driving past' and thought you'd drop in and 'look' at a GTS? :D


I bought the GTS new from Booran in Moorabin but I live in Sunbury. My previous ride, a VT Clubsport R8 was also serviced at Sunbury Holden.

[HRT]

Fark... All these problems and you guys still seem to retain that Holden pride. How admirable.

[commomate]

Fark... All these problems and you guys still seem to retain that Holden pride. How admirable.

ditto if I had all those problems in 2 years I'd be seeking a different brand

[VYBerlinaV8]

I've had my VY Berlina V8 in 6 times for small warrantly jobs. What pi$$es me off is that I also own a Daewoo as a daily drive, and it has done 94,000 km WITH ZERO PROBLEMS. And it's only a 3 cylinder beastie too! Of course, its boring to drive and makes me look like a weenie, but do I care? No. I had other small Jap cars in the past that have also given no problems.

Although my dealer (Commonwealth Motors in Canberra) has been terrific, and always make every effort to get things resolved, I probably won't buy another Holden. The build quality just isn't good enough. The problem now is finding another brand that provides the same performance / versatility / cost equation that builds better quality cars...

[HRT]

Mate, i guess your only choice is to go secondhand. HOlden's and Ford's do provide the best BFYB factor, and there is not much out there that will satisfy your appetite. Have you ever considered a secondhand BMW? I have seen some 1995 740iL's go for around $55K. I know that the performance would not rival the Holden, but then again you got much more street cred than both Statesman and Caprice. The only problem with these Beamers is that they are f3cking expensive to fix, but i guess thats the price you pay for quality and prestige.

[VYBerlinaV8]

At the moment the approach I'm taking is to drive my Daewoo around to work and stuff, and enjoy the Berlina on weekends. That way it doesn't matter too much if it's in the shop occasionally. Second hand is also a good idea. Because you pay so much less for a 1-2 year old vehicle, it's not so hard to arrange things such that you can change cars every 1-2 years, without it costing too much. That way, if you get a crap one, you don't keep it too long. If you get a good one, you have the option of hanging onto it. I'm thinking pretty seriously that's the way to go in the future.

As far as BMWs and stuff go, people sometimes forget just how much cheaper it is to service and maintain a Ford or Holden. I try not to be one of those people!

[Falchoon]

*Update*


The Supreme Court has ruled in favour of a motorist who bought a lemon, setting a precedent that could protect all motorists, reports Bill McKinnon.

Car buyers in NSW have scored a significant victory following a landmark case last week, when the NSW Supreme Court dismissed an appeal by Holden and one of its dealers against a NSW Consumer Trader and Tenancy Tribunal order.

It is believed to be the only case in NSW where the tribunal has ordered a car maker to take back a lemon and refund its price.


http://www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?article=http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2004/09/13/FFXFEREI1ZD.html

[Mongy]

Oh well, the floodgates are open now. I feel genuinely sorry for people who buy a lemon and feel that they should not have to put up with constant problems. The ones I have seen on television I would not like to own that is for sure. If the car is a lemon though I also don't think the manufacturer should be allowed to resell it without performing extensive repairs and checking to ensure it is no longer a lemon, if they cannot guarantee it is fixed they shouldn't be allowed to sell it again, and lets face it, any car that is bad enough that the court has to give it back because the dealers cannot resolve the issues is not likely to be fixed anytime soon.

[Animal]

A HSV ...... mmmmmmm

This should be interesting.

[SSFreak]

Oh well, the floodgates are open now. I feel genuinely sorry for people who buy a lemon and feel that they should not have to put up with constant problems. The ones I have seen on television I would not like to own that is for sure. If the car is a lemon though I also don't think the manufacturer should be allowed to resell it without performing extensive repairs and checking to ensure it is no longer a lemon, if they cannot guarantee it is fixed they shouldn't be allowed to sell it again, and lets face it, any car that is bad enough that the court has to give it back because the dealers cannot resolve the issues is not likely to be fixed anytime soon.

They should do what the Rolls Royce engineers used to do when there was a problem with one of their engines. They used to tear them apart and find out why there problems with it so that they could make sure it never happened again.

[seldo]

I have spent many years on both sides of the service counter and I am quite sure that some people either create problems with their cars or else they almost seek-out problems. I have had clients who have had problems with every car have ever had, and others who never have a problem. One guy who had a Jag XJS used to tow this thing in on a flat-bed at least once a month. He was actually quite philosophical about it for a year or so until it finally got him and he traded out of it into something else. So, I thought, I can't sell this to someone else until it is fixed once and for all, so I drove it for the next year. It never missed a beat! And I've seen it plenty of times with other people too. I think it has something to do with people who are not mechanically minded and they either create problems of their own by the way they operate it because of ignorance. And then they get to hate the car and look for more problems, and it compounds. That probably sounds a bit crazy but I've seen it so many times. I think the problem is often with the owner and not the car. :hide: waiting for the flame..;)

[EL2]

I hope the bloke taking legal action wins, I'd be seriously !@#$%^ if my ride was off the road more often that is was on!

The only problem with my SS in the past 6 months (and 17,000km) is that the rear passenger door shopping-trolley-bump-protection-strip has cracked, and the dealer replaced it in the blink of an eyelid - no questions asked - at my last service. Good onya Gerald Slaven Motors in Belconnen.

[sandmanls1]

good to see a result for the underdog.. bad publicity for holden should open the floodgates now.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Perhaps Holden could spend a bit less on flashy advertising and work on improving the quality of their product instead. It seems Holden and Ford are developing a real reputation for low build quality, something I don't think they had a problem with say 10 years ago?

[RICHO]

People seem to constantly bag Ford and Holden's quality but how bad is it really, especially compared to other vehicles??

10 years ago the cars were appalling compared to current day the only difference is that back then people expected $20,000 quality when they purchased a $20,000 car. Today everyone seems to want Lexus / Audi quality for $30,000 and that is completely unrealistic.

Unfortunately you get what you pay for. And while Lemon's should be automaticallty replaced, faults should be expected with any product that has as many moving parts and production variation as a car, if ther're small and easily repaired who cares. If they are never ending....it's a Lemon

My real issue is why do people expect so much from Ford and Holden when they are so forgiving of some of the crap that comes out of Europe? Renault, Pugeot, Saab, early X-type Jags, the old Mercedes SLK, the earlier Porsche Cayannes had more faults than you could poke a stick at!!! Yet there's a real reluctance for anyone to acknowledge that the vast majority of Fords and Holden's hitting the road have quality at least the equal of most European manufacturers (I'll excl. Merc, BMW, Audi and VW) as for Japan Toyota are agruably better, but Subaru, Honda, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Nissan are no better at all.

Automotive manufacturers share quality information via a "Things Gone Wrong" Index which reports faults per 1000 vehicles, this information is not publicised but is shared by the companies. Anyone who has seen this information could tell you that quality has improved dramatically over time. They could also tell you that Toyota isn't streets ahead of Ford and Holden as everyone seems to assume. I haven't seen the data for over a year (change of job and industry) but last time I did across Mazda, Ford, Holden, Toyota there was no more than 50-100 faults per 1000 difference.

Perhaps buyers of Australian cars just complain more??

[VYBerlinaV8]

I don't think people get that worried if there are a few minor issues that can get fixed at service time. When you have systemic problems (say for example Holden V8 clutches), I really think the manufacturer should have a long hard look and fix the problem. I don't think anyone seriously expects Lexus quality from their Ford or Holden, but they do expect new cars to be basically reliable, and for stuff not to constantly break or fall off.

[RICHO]

I don't think people get that worried if there are a few minor issues that can get fixed at service time. When you have systemic problems (say for example Holden V8 clutches), I really think the manufacturer should have a long hard look and fix the problem. I don't think anyone seriously expects Lexus quality from their Ford or Holden, but they do expect new cars to be basically reliable, and for stuff not to constantly break or fall off.

Couldn't agree more!!!

Look at the manufacturing volumes and of course overall sales in Australia.

How many "lemons" could you identify by manufacturer. I could name 4 owners of Mercedes who scored a lemon and at least one Porsche Cayanne owner whose car has been in for repair more often than the car at the centre of this case.

So as a % of total sales in Australia, Holden and Ford's locally manufactured products actually stack up pretty well. It's just unfotunate that our passion for locally produced cars makes so many of us "biased" when it comes to just how great the cars we get for our money really are.

[seldo]

Richo: Good intelligent post. Without wanting to take the issue to intellectual heights that we don't know enough about, I am sure that the whole issue is largely pschologically based. Bear in mind that the person who pays $20k for a new car has probably just invested the same percentage of his salary or worth as the bloke who spends $200k, so the proportional pain is very similar. But, in many cases the lower invester is probably really stretched further with his investment than the bloke spending a lot more because it leaves him with a lot less disposable income for the other necessities of life. Also, the bloke on $200k salary is probably less inclined to make a noise about his problems because it reflects on his poor judgement and that for a person in HIS position is not good, so he cops it quietly on the chin.
Also, it's unfortunate for some of the manufacturers when they suffer from the results of their component suppliers' failures. A recent issue which comes to mind is the billions it cost Ford for the Firestone tyre failures on their Voyager 4wds. Or holden with the power steer problems caused by poor quality Delphi pumps. Sure, the buck stops with the end manufacturer, but in many cases it is not necessarily their fault - they just have to fix them and cop the flack. And, a lot of manufacturers have different attitudes towards warranty. I had a neighbour a few years ago that had a 5 y/o Volvo done 80k and it had the worst piston slap you've ever heard. He knew nothing about mechanics (he bought a Volvo ...;) ) and was oblivious to the problem until I pointed it out - he thought they all rattled like that when cold. We pulled the engine out and stripped it down and found that one piston had NO rings at all. Called in Volvo who after much arguing agreed to pay for parts, but did it with much bad grace, and so their contribution was really wasted because the owner thought their attitude was poor form (- he'd bought a pair of them new). It is a tough situation all round for the consumer and the manufacturer. But, in essence, all the manufacturers should be forced to maintain a certain standard of warranty policy so that there is more obligation to fix them. Replace them ? - no.! The consumer has had the use of it and they should be shouldering the attendant costs, otherwise a clever complainant could keep himself in new cars just by creating a stink every 6 months and get a newie. There has to be some reason involved for both sides. Just like Holden's policy with LS1 engine problems is, I believe, replace the engine up to 30,000kms and repair it after that. I don't think that's unreasonable. The only rider I put on that is I think they should have to give you a loaner if it takes more than 1 day.

Just 2c worth from 30 years in the trade.

[Mongy]

I have spent many years on both sides of the service counter and I am quite sure that some people either create problems with their cars or else they almost seek-out problems. I have had clients who have had problems with every car have ever had, and others who never have a problem. One guy who had a Jag XJS used to tow this thing in on a flat-bed at least once a month. He was actually quite philosophical about it for a year or so until it finally got him and he traded out of it into something else. So, I thought, I can't sell this to someone else until it is fixed once and for all, so I drove it for the next year. It never missed a beat! And I've seen it plenty of times with other people too. I think it has something to do with people who are not mechanically minded and they either create problems of their own by the way they operate it because of ignorance. And then they get to hate the car and look for more problems, and it compounds. That probably sounds a bit crazy but I've seen it so many times. I think the problem is often with the owner and not the car. :hide: waiting for the flame..;)
No flame Seldo, only agreement from another who has spent many years on both sides of the counter. The people who find most problems are also the ones who look the hardest, in some cases if they can't find a problem they just look harder, sad but true. A lot of people have genuine problems and I feel sorry for them, but I don't feel sorry for the person that wants a $200k car for $20k as Richo has pointed out. Some cars have problems, that is why we have warranty. It is there for our safeguard, not for us to abuse.

[Roger]

Common guys - if you bought a GTS & it had several rebuilds - there is obviously a problem.
Don't doubt you have worrywort car owners, but this guy had a genuine beef & if Holden didn't see it coming when they know the facts of how many GenIII's they've repalced / rebuilt since 1999, then more fool them.
Yes it's GM Powertrain in St Catherines Ontario that created the problem for them, but the end user here buys the car from Holden, not GM Powertrain.
It won't open any floodgates - this guy had to fight tooth & nail to get this level of response (refund most of his purchase price) - it wasn't easy.
If my car was off the road for as long as this guys was, I'd be looking for somebody's blood & he got it.
Good on him.
Holden would have saved a great deal of angst by taking it back far earlier & giving him another GTS with the later piston revision - a lot less than they would have spent legally.
A happy client & nowhere near the bad press they've got over it - plus less $$ on legals.

[seldo]

Can'y argue with
Common guys - if you bought a GTS & it had several rebuilds - there is obviously a problem.
Don't doubt you have worrywort car owners, but this guy had a genuine beef & if Holden didn't see it coming when they know the facts of how many GenIII's they've repalced / rebuilt since 1999, then more fool them.
Yes it's GM Powertrain in St Catherines Ontario that created the problem for them, but the end user here buys the car from Holden, not GM Powertrain.
It won't open any floodgates - this guy had to fight tooth & nail to get this level of response (refund most of his purchase price) - it wasn't easy.
If my car was off the road for as long as this guys was, I'd be looking for somebody's blood & he got it.
Good on him.
Holden would have saved a great deal of angst by taking it back far earlier & giving him another GTS with the later piston revision - a lot less than they would have spent legally.
A happy client & nowhere near the bad press they've got over it - plus less $$ on legals.
Can't argue with most of that except that it sounds to me as if the whole affair was very badly handled by both Heartland and Holden. You should always oil a squeaky door...They should have seen the drama more realistically early on and given the poor bugga a new engine and shut him up. Lend him a car, fix it properly once and for all, but I don't think that it was justified to refund the money like that. As has been said - it sets a very dangerous precedent. After all the guy had 2 years and maybe 40,000kms out of it for pretty much nix. In reading the various press stories it also sounds as if the complainant must have had a friend in the NRMA to get a report that said the car was dangerous to drive just because it has some piston slap or oil consumption problems. I'm not trivialsing the problems, because the car should not have had the issues, but ...dangerous?? One also wonders what, if anything, his Honour knows about mechanical things...

2c from an old realist

[Thumper]

Common guys - if you bought a GTS & it had several rebuilds - there is obviously a problem.
Don't doubt you have worrywort car owners, but this guy had a genuine beef & if Holden didn't see it coming when they know the facts of how many GenIII's they've repalced / rebuilt since 1999, then more fool them.
Yes it's GM Powertrain in St Catherines Ontario that created the problem for them, but the end user here buys the car from Holden, not GM Powertrain.
It won't open any floodgates - this guy had to fight tooth & nail to get this level of response (refund most of his purchase price) - it wasn't easy.
If my car was off the road for as long as this guys was, I'd be looking for somebody's blood & he got it.
Good on him.
Holden would have saved a great deal of angst by taking it back far earlier & giving him another GTS with the later piston revision - a lot less than they would have spent legally.
A happy client & nowhere near the bad press they've got over it - plus less $$ on legals.
Some good points from Roger, Mongy, Seldo and Richo.
I agree that this matter should have been able to be resolved, but we have construed that the fault is all Holden's.
I can attest, that some owners, particularly those from above the equator, are lemon magnets. It's amazing, they buy the best model available from any manufacturer, and in 6 weeks, it's a lemon.
I am sure that the car with no faults, has yet to be made yet, so it is better to live with the "karma" of the car, and I'm sure it will return the favour.
My own experiences, are that any faults that have appeared on my Holdens so far, have been dealt with without prompting, in some cases. My lemon was a VRII SS M5, it used to stall without warning, but it was eventually solved (2 x dud Ignition modules), and the dealer was very accomodating - loaners etc. What I experienced, would no doubt have had another owner climbing the wall, but, you see, we all wanted to solve it. If an owner gets stroppy, the dealer will too. So it goes.