Lets stop kidding ourselves!!!!!!

[Aloof]

I know its been said before but we live in an age where Hipocricy reigns supreme! I'm talking about the enforcement of SPEEDING!!!!!!!

Today, we drive the most powerful, fastest and safest vehicles of all time. Yet we live in a society that legislates against the very technology that car manufactures have achieved. To illustrate my point, imagine we lived in the 1960's, 1970's or 1980's when cars had the safety features of a canoe. I can understand setting a speed limit of 100km/h. Whilst our cars have advanced in every aspect, our govenment enforces speed limits that have remained unchanged in 30 years with a "no tolerance policy".

The maximum legal speed limit in QLD is 110km/h. Why is my car speed limited to 230km/h, twice the legal speed limit. Why are all cars not speed limited to 110 km/h. The answer is REVENUE. We have the technology to stop people from speeding. What the government is effectively doing is giving the public the option of paying for the privelige of breaking the law.

[Minikeg]

Well australian roads arent the best for high speeds...

:lol: Thats where all the money/revenue is going, to fix them of course... :confused:

oh wait... :mad: no its not :bash: :bash: :bash:

[MattJ]

did anybody catch the shit on today tonight re the ''1.5 million people die on the roads every year, heres something that will half it... a speed limiter!!''

anywho, i didnt catch it. so do tell if you did!!

[Ghosn]

Dont forget we also buy our cars for racing on the track and 1/4 mile so it would be pretty dumb to speed limit them. Manuals would also be useless me thinks.

[Redfox]

Good point smurfy. I agree with you regarding the speed limiters. However I don't see how it is relevant that we drive the fastest and safest cars nowadays. Regardless of how safe your car is, the law has to apply to everyone including those people who drive 30 year old cars. Maybe I misunderstood you tho, but I just wanted to clear it up. Anyway, you are 100% right about the speed limiter technology. Now that you mention it, it really beats the hell out of me. Maybe people will be up in arms about their "rights" as a citizen... those sort of people who forget that driving is a privilege. Hrmmm.... good food for thought eh?

[Nawdy]

did anybody catch the shit on today tonight re the ''1.5 million people die on the roads every year, heres something that will half it... a speed limiter!!''

anywho, i didnt catch it. so do tell if you did!!

Yes I seen it tonight. They did the usual sensationalist stunt - found someone who had lost somebody in an MVA, mentioned all the right things such as speed, cost to the community, the high % rate of deaths for young drivers compared to other age groups and, of course, the night-time driving curfew. Oh, and a few pictures of badly damaged cars and specifically mentioned Commodores at high speed.

Some people in England have developed a speed-limiter for cars - it doesn't matter how far you push the throttle, it won't go over the posted speed limit (speed limit info is transmitted via satellite to the car). There is an override button, but - wait for it - if you have to use it in an emergency situation, you need to be able to explain to authorities why you over-rode the system!!! :eek:

When will these people learn that wrapping drivers up in cotton wool isn't the answer, proper driver education is.... besides, our state govmints won't accept it, they'll lose too many $$$$$

[Falchoon]

did anybody catch the shit on today tonight re the ''1.5 million people die on the roads every year, heres something that will half it... a speed limiter!!''

anywho, i didnt catch it. so do tell if you did!!


Yeh, I saw it. Started out with interview of g/f with baby of young fellow that died the other week when Commodore hit tree in Sydney. Then went on to trial of speed limiter gizmo that is being trialled in Pommyland at the moment. Works off satellite so that as soon as you hit an 80km/h zone your car will automatically adjust speed to that and won't go over. Can be overidden in 'emergencies' by pressing a button on the steering wheel but it reports back to authorities and they send you a 'please explain' letter and presumably book you if you haven't got a good excuse.

There was no discussion of any real facts, just a typical sensationalised TT story. :bash:
No mention of how long you would spend on the wrong side of the road if you can't speed up to overtake a truck or other slower moving vehicle.

http://seven.com.au/todaytonight/story/?id=16494

[Redfox]

The problem with this sort of satellite system could possibly be privacy issues etc. Maybe your car won't always send info back to the system (cos that would be a ridiculously large amount of information for so many cars) but when you do speed and it flags you as 'over the limit', then obviously it sends a message to the main system. This essentially means the government can track you if you go over the limit etc etc. Plus this system would probably only work in areas with mobile reception or similar... not in the outback unless they chuck in satellite systems! ($$$$$) :)

[CarlFST60L]

''1.5 million people die on the roads every year



:lol: there is 20million ppl in AU... that means we will all be dead in a little over 10 years :lol:

I think someone got the decimal points mixed up... :bash:

[Mongy]

Today, we drive the most powerful, fastest and safest vehicles of all time. Yet we live in a society that legislates against the very technology that car manufactures have achieved. To illustrate my point, imagine we lived in the 1960's, 1970's or 1980's when cars had the safety features of a canoe. I can understand setting a speed limit of 100km/h. Whilst our cars have advanced in every aspect, our govenment enforces speed limits that have remained unchanged in 30 years with a "no tolerance policy".

The answer is simple, yes, cars have advanced lightyears ahead in the last 40 years, but the AVERAGE driver has no more skills than he did 40 years ago (apart from being able to drive while answering a phone and slipping a new CD in :lol: ) You have to remember there are some pretty basic units out there behind the wheel of a car, and a higher % of the public have a licence these days compared with the 60's.

[Beej]

The problem with this sort of satellite system could possibly be privacy issues etc. Maybe your car won't always send info back to the system (cos that would be a ridiculously large amount of information for so many cars) but when you do speed and it flags you as 'over the limit', then obviously it sends a message to the main system. This essentially means the government can track you if you go over the limit etc etc. Plus this system would probably only work in areas with mobile reception or similar... not in the outback unless they chuck in satellite systems! ($$$$$) :)

The system being trialled in the UK that TT showed *was* a satellite based system, so it would work anywhere ;(

It's just BS - if we had this system on every car I predict fatilities would increase - especially on country Australian roads - due to longer travel times (imagine the lines of cars stuck behind the guy doing 80 in a 100 zone who can't overtake because of the speed limiter!!!), fatigue accidents will increase, there would be more head-ons, more road rage, and basically "dumber" drivers making more mistakes. I hope we never have to find out if my prediction is true or not!

Also - what about people (like me!) who use their car for motor sport? We would have to have a way to turn the system off for that anyway.

Cheers,

Beej

[CarlFST60L]

What if... you went to overtake, someone pulled out or was speeding the other way and your only option is to floor it to get infront of the guy you are overtaking to avoid certain death... the sat kicks in, slows you down, kills you... 4 this reason, it will not happen in the near future... mayne 100 years from now...

[HSVMAN]

What if... you went to overtake, someone pulled out or was speeding the other way and your only option is to floor it to get infront of the guy you are overtaking to avoid certain death... the sat kicks in, slows you down, kills you... 4 this reason, it will not happen in the near future... mayne 100 years from now...

Exactly!! I know its not funny but imagine a whole bunch of cars trying to pass a slower vehicle doing say 95..... and running out of room at the end of a passing lane...... :mad: Would cause more road rage than you could think

[Veeate]

Exactly!! I know its not funny but imagine a whole bunch of cars trying to pass a slower vehicle doing say 95..... and running out of room at the end of a passing lane...... :mad: Would cause more road rage than you could think

Spot on !

Not that it is not going to stop the idiotic beaurecrats introducing it. :mad:

Safest way to overtake is to spend the least amount of time on the opposite side of the road. I make no apologies for speeding when i overtake.

Of course the Plod never sees it that way :box:

p.s i love the signs that say something like 'No lines marked. Only overtake when safe'. Yeah no sh*t Sherlock ! :booty:

[Nawdy]

What if... you went to overtake, someone pulled out or was speeding the other way and your only option is to floor it to get infront of the guy you are overtaking to avoid certain death... the sat kicks in, slows you down, kills you... 4 this reason, it will not happen in the near future... mayne 100 years from now...

Just to explain a little further what was shown on TT last night - there was an override button fitted for this purpose but, as I said in my last post, you need to be able to explain to the proper authorities why you activated the override button....

There is also an interesting article in the latest Motor magazine regarding road toll reduction in Europe. Significant reductions have been made not by speed cameras and the like, but by making big improvements on the road system and lifting the level of driver training. Wonder where we have heard these ideas from before....

Thank God we don't know what we are talking about, but our politicians and their advisors do. That's why they have people drive them everywhere.

[Gto_255]

The system being trialled in the UK that TT showed *was* a satellite based system, so it would work anywhere ;(

It's just BS - if we had this system on every car I predict fatilities would increase - especially on country Australian roads - due to longer travel times (imagine the lines of cars stuck behind the guy doing 80 in a 100 zone who can't overtake because of the speed limiter!!!), fatigue accidents will increase, there would be more head-ons, more road rage, and basically "dumber" drivers making more mistakes. I hope we never have to find out if my prediction is true or not!

Also - what about people (like me!) who use their car for motor sport? We would have to have a way to turn the system off for that anyway.

Cheers,

Beej

Yeh i was reading somehwere about the pommy system and apparently it doesn'et work. There was a study in Europe which has followed the safety systems and deaths of every Europen country the last 5 years. Interestingly the English system which is all about reduced speed limits and safe cars produced the highest toll(per person living in the country). Portugual had the best results and funnily enough their government spent all their money on driver education and training rather than speed limits and safer cars.

It seems that the way it is in Australia is all revenue for the government rather than safer roads for us(similar to England). It's a scam and it's only getting worse as in 5-6 years time there will be probably 3 times the aount of speed cameras.

[VX11SS]

Yeh i was reading somehwere about the pommy system and apparently it doesn'et work. There was a study in Europe which has followed the safety systems and deaths of every Europen country the last 5 years. Interestingly the English system which is all about reduced speed limits and safe cars produced the highest toll(per person living in the country). Portugual had the best results and funnily enough their government spent all their money on driver education and training rather than speed limits and safer cars.

It seems that the way it is in Australia is all revenue for the government rather than safer roads for us(similar to England). It's a scam and it's only getting worse as in 5-6 years time there will be probably 3 times the aount of speed cameras.

You do realise that the UK has one of the lowest road toll (deaths) of ANY country so they have a lot less room to move in reductions where as Portugal is renowned as the death trap of europe, I spent a year back in the UK three years back and saw many docos on Portugals driving record, also worked for vehicle rental company who dealt world wide and the horror stories we heard from our clients who had been in Portugal where literally hair raising.
I think you have misread your figures all results I have seen whether based on population, miles driven per driver. etc have all had the UK as having about the lowest or second lowest death or injury rate in the world.

[Gto_255]

http://www.portcult.com/DRIVING_IN_PORTUGAL.01.htm

Seems you are right.

I'm preety sure i read that Portugual was the safest in last weeks cars guide in the Herlad Sun. Either their full of crap or ive lost the plot.

[HSVMAN]

It seems that the way it is in Australia is all revenue for the government rather than safer roads for us(similar to England). It's a scam and it's only getting worse as in 5-6 years time there will be probably 3 times the aount of speed cameras.

Not only are the speed cameras gathering revenue for "non-transport" funds, but the "road tax" you pay for when you buy fuel does not go to the roads either :bash:
Its the same in NZ, poor roads and uneducated drivers are a far higher risk.
The Alcohol and speed factor is definately an issue but not as much as the propoganda we are fed.

[DaveHAT]

The answer is simple, yes, cars have advanced lightyears ahead in the last 40 years, but the AVERAGE driver has no more skills than he did 40 years ago (apart from being able to drive while answering a phone and slipping a new CD in :lol: ) You have to remember there are some pretty basic units out there behind the wheel of a car, and a higher % of the public have a licence these days compared with the 60's.


Very good & relevant point MoNGY !

The weakest link in cars these days is the often the software hanging off the steering wheel. :shock:
Car manufacturers can put all the electronic safety devices on cars (ABS, Airbags etc) with the end result potentially being people driving around in the belief that they are surrounded by safety foam. What if these systems fail ?????

Cars have advanced in speed ability & and other ways, but the AVERAGE driver in reality hasn't. The bigger problem with speeding IMHO is attitiude. Some people either don't care or don't see the implications of speeding, and as has been said on this forum before, A BETTER DESCRIPTION IS SPEEDING FOR THE CONDITIONS.

:idea: If you don't want to be a part of revenue raising...........DON"T SPEED! :eek: Save the fine money & put it towards a track day :burnout: or similar. Then you can go nuts & get it out of your system.

IMHO & My2c worth of course :werd:

[ls1350]

Road rage what about the prick that speeds up when you go to overtake
both get to 110km then what??

As for the pomms have the lowest road toll this may sum up why

One night a few years back now I turned the TV on and the BILL was on so I
watched it and to set the picture.

Cop sitting in car turns to another cop and said "come on,come on I've got 2Ltrs of PURE GRUNT under this." and the stroy went on.FTW

:nutkick:

[mmciau]

Gentlemen,
you are wasting your time bleating about speed restrictions.

The government will NOT LISTEN and NEVER WILL LISTEN to you carrying on about speed limits. It has developed an unassailable means of getting money for very little outlay and all the do gooders applaud the government for keeping the feral hoons at bay.

The only way the people would ever win the day is - all at once, we deregister our cars for 6 months, not buy any fuel and catch public transport.

No revenue and massive unemployment problem would soon generate a response.

Mike

[Mongy]

:idea: If you don't want to be a part of revenue raising...........DON"T SPEED! :eek: Save the fine money & put it towards a track day :burnout: or similar. Then you can go nuts & get it out of your system.

IMHO & My2c worth of course :werd:
Amen to that. You'll have a load of fun and the only person that will get hurt is yourself if you are stupid enough.
It has developed an unassailable means of getting money for very little outlay and all the do gooders applaud the government for keeping the feral hoons at bay :lol: "feral hoons at bay"? :lol: What can I say, I'm speechless because I'm laughing too much :lol:

[markone2]

:lol: "feral hoons at bay"? :lol: What can I say, I'm speechless because I'm laughing too much :lol:


:wave: Yo grumpy number two......see what happens with the passing of too many dawns if ye don't get yer bum into a Gen111....*Ya hooning days are over* :lol: .

[Mongy]

:wave: Yo grumpy number two......see what happens with the passing of too many dawns if ye don't get yer bum into a Gen111....*Ya hooning days are over* :lol: .Ahh, I've seen too many dawns but at least I've got the Gen III :lol:

[VX11SS]

http://www.portcult.com/DRIVING_IN_PORTUGAL.01.htm

Seems you are right.

I'm preety sure i read that Portugual was the safest in last weeks cars guide in the Herlad Sun. Either their full of crap or ive lost the plot.

No worries Gto_255, wasnt intended as a flame, must say for all the talk about speed cameras and cops in the UK, I found that they where more tolerant than NZ where the police and Land Transport department seem to insist speed is the only problem (apart from drunk driving). I would love to see the cops here actually pull someone over for changing lanes with no signals or tailgating rather than speeding on a motorway but that will be when pigs fly!!
cheers Jay

[ziggycv8z]

You are really doing well. AGAIN its over 3 years old. How many old threads are you going to bring back.

[Party Pete]

I have simple answer. If the pollies had to drive themselves backwards and forwards across the country instead of flying at our expense they might realise how dumb the open road speed limits are. Sorry, I cannot see the argument for why speed limits should not be reviewed up as well as down down. There are a hell of a lot of accidents which occur due to pure and utter boredom. To those who find they get a great release on the track, good on you. Hope you have fun. But, being bored does not equate to safe open road travel and the fact is that despite roads getting better and better and cars getting better and better, we are forced to drive slower and slower. Is there really anyone out there prepared to actually suggest that a modern car (and I mean up to 20 years old for the sake of argument) on modern tyres isn't a hell of a lot safer on current roads than back in the days of HQ's on crossplies, often on dirt roads. Before you tell me that a 20 year old car isn't exactly in new condition, remember that there were 20 year old cars in the 70's too. The problem is that we dumbed it down to an idea that the speed limit is a minimum speed not a maximum. Instead we have rows of drones driving nose to tail across hundreds of kilometres, no-one even considering the safety of the situation, just driving at the speed limit on the assumption they are safe and responsible people. The fact is that speed doesn't kill, crashing does. So, rather than just tell everyone to drive at 100km/h in a semi coma, perhaps we should consider whether they would be safer driving a bit faster and concentrating on the conditions and actually evaluating their surroundings and the resultant risk.

Oh, interestingly the US finally abolished the 55mph blanket limit despite the howls from the insurance industry that it would result in over a 1000 extra deaths a year and the road toll actually dropped. So just maybe there is more to safety than is being suggested and maybe it is possible occassionally for common sense to apply.

[SV346]

i was just thinking and imagine if one day we all woke up and every open road speed limit was 160 or something like that, i wonder if people would actually do it just because its "the speed limit" :) If it was upto me id make the hume highway a 3 laner, and have the fast lane set at 160 middle at 130 and slow lane at 100, they do something similar in spain and it works pretty well.

[SIR_SKITZ]

Great post Pete!


...


Speed limiting a vehicle, has its flaws.

eg. Most trucks are limited to 100km/h ... Essentially, the limit is set by several different variables but not necessarily all of them : road speed, diff/gear ratios, engine rpm, vacuum etc.
Problem is, and anyone who drives a truck will understand what I mean, at the limited speed, you have no more power, your rev's are at their max and you're in limbo, the only time you gain any sort of power is on an incline, where either the PCM or mechanical limiter compensates, much like how the crusie control module works.
In an event, where you need to overtake, it can take a very long time especially when the vehicle in front is only fractionally slower and you are "maxxed out"



...

Forget band aid fixes for critical issues, get drivers properly trained and educated, get our roads upto a somewhat tangible level and loosen the grip a little!

[sully]

The answer is simple, yes, cars have advanced lightyears ahead in the last 40 years, but the AVERAGE driver has no more skills than he did 40 years ago (apart from being able to drive while answering a phone and slipping a new CD in :lol: ) You have to remember there are some pretty basic units out there behind the wheel of a car, and a higher % of the public have a licence these days compared with the 60's.

Amen to that brother... Most (not all) drivers out there are ignorant, unschooled in the proper techniques and even law, and most of them don't even care. People around my area don't even bother to hide the fact that they're on the phone, let alone not use it! Everyone says the government should do this or that and enfore that law, but I feel that safety is also in the hands of the individual. Realise the risks involved in driving, and take precautions to protect yourself, ie. do some defensive driving courses, make sure your car is in reasonable condition (safety wise) and things like that. The government won't do it because they would get a bad wrap for forcing people to do driving courses, so go do it yourselves! :soap: I'll be quiet now..

[VSSII]

Oh, interestingly the US finally abolished the 55mph blanket limit despite the howls from the insurance industry that it would result in over a 1000 extra deaths a year and the road toll actually dropped. So just maybe there is more to safety than is being suggested and maybe it is possible occassionally for common sense to apply.

The 55mph speed limit had considerably more to do with redcing smog pollution than reducing the road toll. Remember this is the counrty where in most states you don't need to wear a seatbelt and being told to do so is seen as infringing on your civil liberties!

No matter what the speed limit is people are still going to want to do 20 over. I love my fast car and bike but based on what I regularly see on a weekly basis at work I see absolutely no need whatsoever to increase limits. There are just too many idiots who don't look past the end of their bonnets, and it's getting worse.

[Dagabond]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Dagabond/car%20crash/doc467378ce5684f245133516.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Dagabond/car%20crash/wreckedporsche.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Dagabond/car%20crash/car_around_tree.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Dagabond/car%20crash/IMG_1739.jpg

Doesn't matter how good the vehicle is or how high or low the speed limit is....it's the idiot stick behind the wheel that causes the accident.

[sandmanls1]

it ain;t worth it anymore if you want to get your speed fix go to the drags or the track..

[Dacious]

I agree with the sentiment that education is better than blunt insturment. Unfortunately daily I see evidence of sheer stupidity that has changed my mind. If the drop kicks only took themselves out of the gene pool I would have no problems - unfortunately they kill and injure people who are inoccent and not anticipating someone blatanly breaking the speed limit or other road rules. I believe our divided freeways could sustain a speed of 130km/h - in the dry and daytime. But there would always be someone pushing it in bad conditions, unroadworthy vehicle, imexperienced driver etc so unfortunately lowest-common denominator it is.

The figures below are real, hard fatlality statistics for Victoria. There were reports recently that the average speed of Victorian motorists is down overall by 10km/h over ten years ago. Mostly in urban areas due to speed and redlight cameras.

The result of this is the dropping by 30% the amount of fatialtiies and serious injuries of pedestrians and cyclists, which are now trending downwards for the first time in decades instead of upwards, despite there being increased numbers of both.

Ten years ago it was estimated the average road fataility cost the community approx. $10m. This came from the cost of emergency services like Police, Fire, Ambulance, Hospital plus cost to loss of productivity over a lifetime, loss of knowledge and experience, retraining a replacement, cost to the family of loss of a breadwinner, funeral expenses, cost to governemts and support organisations in welfare services ans counselling etc, legal expenses like coronial and investigative, courts in wrapping up a person's life etc etc etc. So if you want value for your tax dollar you really want to minimise this.

In a way, speed fines are a sort of user-pays. Bust the limit, you pay.

http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/Road+Safety/Home/About+Road+Safety/RSAFETY+-+Road+Toll


Road Toll
Road toll is the term used for the number of deaths and injuries caused by motor vehicles.

Details of the road toll are updated daily and published monthly on the Transport Accident Commission (TAC) website.

A breakdown of the 2007 road toll confirms that young men are particularly at risk: Of the 332 deaths in 2007, 243 were males and 89 were females.

Overall, 81 of the deaths were of people aged between 18 and 25. This represents 24 per cent of the total road toll, yet this group comprises only 13 per cent of all licenced drivers.

Deaths in rural Victoria were down from 193 in 2006 to 174 in 2007, a reduction of 10 per cent.

Pedestrian deaths were down from 58 in 2006 to 41 in 2007. This represents a reduction of 29 per cent of pedestrian deaths.

There were six bicycle deaths in 2007, down from 14 in 2006.

Motorcycle deaths were reduced from 47 in 2006 to 45 in 2007.

http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/Road+Safety/Home/About+Road+Safety/RSAFETY+-+Road+Toll

Those figures are not made up - they are real. They show the road toll is dropping. People aren't driving any better to judge from what I see, and thier cars aren't more roadworthy. But they are driving slower, which increases their chance of not hitting others when somethign does go wrong and it goes wrong less frequently. Unfortunately it seems we only respond to the stick.

Really if you think about it, the 1960's-1970's era of 100mph on the open road and arguing with the copper about if it was a reasonable speed were like a free kick with the breeze. You just don't get it today, and your right to tear along without regard is not a 'right' at all when it might abbreviate someone else's right to go about their business without being involved in your misadventure.

Sorry, those days are just gone.

[Vulture]

No matter what the speed limit is people are still going to want to do 20 over. I love my fast car and bike but based on what I regularly see on a weekly basis at work I see absolutely no need whatsoever to increase limits. There are just too many idiots who don't look past the end of their bonnets, and it's getting worse.

Nonsense. There is absolutely no evidence for your idea that there is a kind of speeding 'arms race' where regardless of the limit people will go a certain proportion faster. The evidence is actually to the contrary: when speed limits are set using sound engineering principles and based on what a competent driver would naturally drive, compliance with the limit is at its best.

[Knight Phlier]

Sorry this is off topic, but i reckon they should have a 'low speed' fine on these bloody fixed cameras. So many people slow down from 60 to 40 or 30 and then wade past the camera half asleep. This situation IMO causes a much larger danger then the problem that it is trying to fix. People behind get agitated, want to overtake, and then the person doing 30 speeds up to 70 after the camera cause he doesn't want those people behind him to pass...

If you can't confidently drive your car at a certain speed, you should not drive. And that goes for 'underspeeders' as well. If you can't keep your car doing 55-60km/h your just as bad as someone who can't drive at the speed limit IMO.

I know this would be impossible to enforce, ie when there is traffic you can't do more than 30km/h, or your car might not be able to do more than 30km/hs cause its a bomb, but damn that really bugs me.

Back on topic - The quality of roads would also have improved over 40 or so years, plus there are heaps more 'tollways' which can make a journey more safer and faster than 40 years ago. Although the quality can always be better - particularly in NSW!

[ogre]

There is still too much social acceptance with speeding. Much of it stems from impatience. Who's ever been overtaking someone by sitting on the speed limit, then someone else comes up from behind you and closes in to within a car length like you are doing something wrong. Of course this other driver is oblivious to the fact that they have committed two offences - exceed the speed limit, and follow too closely.
I'd hate to be a road workman, judging by the road rage I cop when slowing down to the roadwork speed limit by the sign, and waiting to reach the higher speed limit sign before gunning it.
There are a few things we can do stop ourselves from speeding:

Suck it up and obey speed limits. THis sets a good example to your fellow drivers. The sooner we change our attitues, the sooner the government will realise this revenue source is limitd
Determine your speedo error. With correct tyre pressures, do a constant speed run and using a good GPS unit, get a 30-second sample of your true speed.
Use Cruise Control in the appropriate gear. Where Cruise is not available, manually give yourself a 5 Km/h window up to the speed limit.
Allow enough trip time to change a flat tyre, so that you can enjoy the trip instead of an "I'm running late" mindset


For those that like to go fast, save it for the controlled environment of the racetrack (which is actually safer than the public road). Join a car club - check out the CAMS website.:rofl:

Owen
Former Driver Trainer

[SS Enforcer]

Nonsense. There is absolutely no evidence for your idea that there is a kind of speeding 'arms race' where regardless of the limit people will go a certain proportion faster. The evidence is actually to the contrary: when speed limits are set using sound engineering principles and based on what a competent driver would naturally drive, compliance with the limit is at its best.

Well there you go Simon applying common sense to this situation doesn't work when the authorities are catering to the lowest common denominator.
An individuals competency isn't a consideration when revenue raising is the order of the day.

cheers


There is still too much social acceptance with speeding.

Snip

Owen
Former Driver Trainer


You make some good points Owen but I disagree with your first criticism regarding acceptance. The limits are too low and lead to fatigue on the open road. After 5 mins of sitting an a mind numbing 100 kph I want to doze off.

Cars of today handle much better than 1950's models by why do we have the same speed limits ?

The continual dumbing down of the road using community is looking more and more like some sort of collective joke. Everyone knows the speed laws are a crock and the enforcement of them nothing more than blatant revenue raising.

I am sure I read where speed accounted for around 4% of Britains fatal accidents when looked at properly so why is it given such an unfair weighting when it comes to enforcement? Oops thats right they can measure it therefore making it easy to apply a blanket determination and issue the appropriate fine.

We book people here before they screw up and say their behaviour could have caused this and that. Why can't I be allowed to work this out for myself. ?

cheers

[ogre]

Well there you go Simon applying common sense to this situation doesn't work when the authorities are catering to the lowest common denominator.
An individuals competency isn't a consideration when revenue raising is the order of the day.

cheers




You make some good points Owen but I disagree with your first criticism regarding acceptance. The limits are too low and lead to fatigue on the open road. After 5 mins of sitting an a mind numbing 100 kph I want to doze off.

Cars of today handle much better than 1950's models by why do we have the same speed limits ?

The continual dumbing down of the road using community is looking more and more like some sort of collective joke. Everyone knows the speed laws are a crock and the enforcement of them nothing more than blatant revenue raising.

I am sure I read where speed accounted for around 4% of Britains fatal accidents when looked at properly so why is it given such an unfair weighting when it comes to enforcement? Oops thats right they can measure it therefore making it easy to apply a blanket determination and issue the appropriate fine.

We book people here before they screw up and say their behaviour could have caused this and that. Why can't I be allowed to work this out for myself. ?

cheers

Enforcer, you're spot on about some limits being inappropriately low. It will probably take some fatigue-related fatality stats to get these limits increased by a reactive govenment.
I taught my learners to be aware of "Sucker Roads" - ultra safe, wide roads with excellent visibility, and a ridiculously low speed limit.

Imagine if we allowed all drivers to pick their own speed limit for a road - can you imagine the variation in speeds that would result? P-platers would be come up at 200 Km/h on a senior citizen doing 80. You and I would be somewhere in reality like 130, so long as we could stop in the distance we can see to be safely clear.

I'd personally like to see less speed enforcement, and much more enforcement on space (following too closely) and perhaps fatigue (driving under the influence of).

If we could raise the bar of the standard of driver that uses our improved cars on our improved roads, then these limits can be set more appropriately.

[BLKVYSS]

There are a lot of good points on this thread.. But let me point out one thing which really just makes installing speed limiters on cars pointless and expensive..

We know all Jap Imports have a 180km/h limiter on them from factory due to laws implemented by the governments.. Now what does everybody do when they get their hands on the car.. Remove or Disable the speed limiter.. In the case of an R33 Skyline it's wire number 53 on the main wiring loom..

At the end of the day, If it becomes Mandatory, The car makers will make us pay for the 'extra' technology, which Most of us, and don't say "we wouldn't ... would just wait until some electrical guy figures out which wire to cut and it's done... So we'd have to pay more for our car, to then go and cut the wire/disable it anyway.. I'd rather just leave the limiter off and save me time and Money.

I've had my SS up to 302 km/h ... Now If My car topped out at 110 km/h ... I wouldn't be nearly as satisfied with it.. We don't buy powerful cars and modify cars to get more power and go faster, to be stopped when we go a 'bit too fast' ...

I believe in most cases people who die speeding (and I apologize to anyone who has lost someone close to them now) were just idiots. I don't think "speeding kills" ... it's the accidents that do.. a 'smart' person CAN speed, and not hurt them selves or anyone else.. However a Stupid and Unexperienced Person who speeds to be cool, goes outside the limitations of skills/experience and road conditions, and crashed and kills them selves is to a point, supposed to happen. It's Natural Selection, Only Idiot's take their lives and throw them away, Unfortunately they often take innocent people with them. But on the bright side of a tragedy, The person responsible wont be able to harm anyone else again.

But hey - This is only my 2 cents.. I've sped when I was younger and stacked.. Yes on the roads, and Yes while either racing or showing off. However I quickly learned from my mistakes as a young driver and now I know what happens.. and I haven't so much as had a near miss since I was 19 - I'm now 25.. My 'mistakes' came in my first year of driving. After that I educated my self with driving courses, which led me to car racing and so on..

I now Ride a Bike Full Time, and Drive my SS on the odd Occasion - and Yes I still Speed.. and Yes I do things that are illegal.. I enjoy the speed, Power and thrills.. However I know MY limits, my Cars Limits and the Roads limits. I can say with all my heart, as much as I do that would be called 'dangerous' on the roads, I will never hurt my self or anyone else because I think before I act.. I wont drag race someone in a 50km/h zone.. It's like anything.. With Danger Comes Risk - to Minimize Risk you must Think and be Smart..

for example. a soldier in a war, there is danger everywhere which brings risk, if a soldier wants to stay alive, he must think first and be smart.. or he dies.. same as the roads..

My Morale.. Think First, Before you Act. If the Risk is too high, Don't do it.

-The End :)

[Party Pete]

I am constantly amazed how many people on this forum talk about getting your speed fix on the track when discussing speed limits. I am not talking about getting a fix, I am talking about a reasonable speed limit that people respect. Only yesterday the Sun Herald ran a story on the money being collected in Vic from speed cameras alone. 1.3 billion. I repeat for those who want to say that government is focussed on safety, 1.3 billion! I did a quick calculation, if the average fine is $250 that is 5.2 million fines per year. Now, clearly any law that is broken 5.2 million times a year isn't relevant. Most people are not anarchists so therefore something must be wrong here. I am sure all these people are not getting a fix, just going about the lives in a risk averse way. So please don't lecture me on getting my fix on the track. I just want to drive a reasonable speed across this huge country without being treated like a criminal.

And, why is 100km/h a magical figure. How was it chosen over 30 years ago and does the argument have any basis today. Why is it immoral to question laws which haven't been updated for so long. It is this type of lemming stupidity that allows governments to get away with collecting 1.3 billion in tax, which is all it is, under the pretence that we deserve it because we apparently are all are suicidal nutters trying to kill ourselves at every opportunity.

The point I was making about the US is that the reason for not changing the speed limit for so many years was based on safety. I know that it was introduced in the 70's as a fuel saving measure but that is not the reason why it was kept so long. Yet, despite using the same logic as we do here that there is a magical figure below which you are safe and above which the car apparently explodes, the actual result of changing the limit was not in line with the theory. Indeed, is the theory of the correlation between speed and deaths the only one that is maintained notwithstanding the constant proof that it is just not right?

Lastly, and I am on a rant here, to point to a reducing road toll and state that this is proof of the speed focus working, is not exactly an in depth analysis. You are making one hell of a leap of logic there. Governments love to do this because it backs up their story, but are you discounting the value of the huge safety improvements in cars and roads? Saying there are old cars still on the road is irrelevant. There have always been old cars on the road and in fact the average age of cars on the road now is lower than it is traditionally. So, on average cars are much safer than they were, as are roads. Does anyone here remember the Hume highway when it was a 2 lane road. I do and the road toll on that road alone was horrific. The cold hard facts are that we have been told that every time we drive 5 k's faster, our chance of having an accident doubles. So, that would mean that decreasing the speed limit by 10 k's should cause the road toll on that road to halve twice, that is reduce to a quarter. Have you seen a reducting in the road toll at a quarter since introducing the 50km/h limits in cities? Actually it appears to have been pretty neutral with some states showing a small reduction in areas with the 50 zone and others showing a small increase. Oops, another peice on inconvenient truth there. Better put in a few more speed cameras and collect a few more fines to prove our point. After all, we deserve it for not for not getting our fix on the track at 55km/h. Or is that 105, they really should put speed limits there too so I can work out what is safe.

The rant is over, I feel a little better now. And for the record, I am not bitter because I have long list of fines, in fact I only have 1 speeding fine to my name, I am just frustrated in having to fight to maintain concentration at the mind numbing speed limits on long trips for fear of being fined large amounts of money to drive a reasonable speed.

[Vulture]

Excellent rant right there! Agree 100%.

[Lucifer]

I am constantly amazed how many people on this forum talk about getting your speed fix on the track when discussing speed limits. I am not talking about getting a fix, I am talking about a reasonable speed limit that people respect. Only yesterday the Sun Herald ran a story on the money being collected in Vic from speed cameras alone. 1.3 billion. I repeat for those who want to say that government is focussed on safety, 1.3 billion! I did a quick calculation, if the average fine is $250 that is 5.2 million fines per year. Now, clearly any law that is broken 5.2 million times a year isn't relevant. Most people are not anarchists so therefore something must be wrong here. I am sure all these people are not getting a fix, just going about the lives in a risk averse way. So please don't lecture me on getting my fix on the track. I just want to drive a reasonable speed across this huge country without being treated like a criminal.

And, why is 100km/h a magical figure. How was it chosen over 30 years ago and does the argument have any basis today. Why is it immoral to question laws which haven't been updated for so long. It is this type of lemming stupidity that allows governments to get away with collecting 1.3 billion in tax, which is all it is, under the pretence that we deserve it because we apparently are all are suicidal nutters trying to kill ourselves at every opportunity.

The point I was making about the US is that the reason for not changing the speed limit for so many years was based on safety. I know that it was introduced in the 70's as a fuel saving measure but that is not the reason why it was kept so long. Yet, despite using the same logic as we do here that there is a magical figure below which you are safe and above which the car apparently explodes, the actual result of changing the limit was not in line with the theory. Indeed, is the theory of the correlation between speed and deaths the only one that is maintained notwithstanding the constant proof that it is just not right?

Lastly, and I am on a rant here, to point to a reducing road toll and state that this is proof of the speed focus working, is not exactly an in depth analysis. You are making one hell of a leap of logic there. Governments love to do this because it backs up their story, but are you discounting the value of the huge safety improvements in cars and roads? Saying there are old cars still on the road is irrelevant. There have always been old cars on the road and in fact the average age of cars on the road now is lower than it is traditionally. So, on average cars are much safer than they were, as are roads. Does anyone here remember the Hume highway when it was a 2 lane road. I do and the road toll on that road alone was horrific. The cold hard facts are that we have been told that every time we drive 5 k's faster, our chance of having an accident doubles. So, that would mean that decreasing the speed limit by 10 k's should cause the road toll on that road to halve twice, that is reduce to a quarter. Have you seen a reducting in the road toll at a quarter since introducing the 50km/h limits in cities? Actually it appears to have been pretty neutral with some states showing a small reduction in areas with the 50 zone and others showing a small increase. Oops, another peice on inconvenient truth there. Better put in a few more speed cameras and collect a few more fines to prove our point. After all, we deserve it for not for not getting our fix on the track at 55km/h. Or is that 105, they really should put speed limits there too so I can work out what is safe.

The rant is over, I feel a little better now. And for the record, I am not bitter because I have long list of fines, in fact I only have 1 speeding fine to my name, I am just frustrated in having to fight to maintain concentration at the mind numbing speed limits on long trips for fear of being fined large amounts of money to drive a reasonable speed.

+1 on the above points!

In addition, Ii should be noted that the majority of poeple that speed regularly are aware of fixed speed cameras and are ever vigilant towards other law enforcement traps. The poor suckers getting snapped/fined are the average joes out there driving at the mind-numbing speeds that cause fatigue and carelessness.

I was once told that nothing sharpens the scenses more than the threat of immanent death. When we drive fast, we are very much aware of our surroundings and our reflexes are sharp. When we are bored, our reation time is much slower and the tendency for the mind to wander is much greater.

I'm no anarchist and I do believe that the law must govern the way we drive. The way I see things, 'speeding' is like 'keeping left unless overtaking'. To not abide by either is against the law but how often do people get booked for hogging the fast lane? How often do people get booked for not indicating on a round-about? These are all road rules and they get broken every munite of every day. Speeding has been a political agenda because it can raise money.

I love it when I'm following a car with a bumper sticker like 'high speed, low IQ' or 'every k over is a killer', only to have them sit in the fast lane at 10km below the speed limit, or not indicate when exisitng a round-about. It's these narrow minded idiots that think slow driving is safe driving - it aint!

[Ausmartin1]

Nice Roads and we can't use them.

Another near 3 sec disaster averted today.....
Indian Student Taxi driver overspeed doing a left hand turn and slid in front of me.

Had I been at the stop sign I would have been TOAST today.

Claimed he was being pushed from behind and couldn't make the turn!
Well why didn't he slow down first.
Even at 60kmp side impact can kill you, so what the answer?

Better drivers
&
On Freeways how about 120Kmp/h speed after all if their going to ping you at 103Kmph why not make it 120 and we can drive around 110 Kmph comfortably

Good enough for Europeons ?
They have two speed limits one for sunny conditions, one when its raining.
Makes sence.

Our drivers and laws suck!

[Evman]

Yep, blame the car. It's all the cars fault. The driver has nothing to do with it.

Maybe we should speed limit drivers because THE CAR WONT SPEED UNLESS THE DRIVER MAKES IT. There's lots of laws I dont agree with, but the rules are the rules.

[offshore]

I just drove from Sydney to Gold Coast and the Pacific highway is an absolute nightmare and a discrace that its still in this state in 2008. A couple hundred kms generally south of Coffs Harbour. This is what we have; single lane most of the way. 10 fixed speed cameras some of them unbelievably positioned on the few double lane overtaking lanes. So when you pull out into the fast lane to overtake after miles of single lane you run straight into a speed camera. Not only that but you have to keep an eye constantly on the speed signs and speedo as the posted limited varies from 110 to 100 to 80 70 60 50 40. And this is our national no 1 highway.

[SS Enforcer]

I just drove from Sydney to Gold Coast and the Pacific highway is an absolute nightmare and a discrace that its still in this state in 2008. A couple hundred kms generally south of Coffs Harbour. This is what we have; single lane most of the way. 10 fixed speed cameras some of them unbelievably positioned on the few double lane overtaking lanes. So when you pull out into the fast lane to overtake after miles of single lane you run straight into a speed camera. Not only that but you have to keep an eye constantly on the speed signs and speedo as the posted limited varies from 110 to 100 to 80 70 60 50 40. And this is our national no 1 highway.

Those cameras they setup to book motorists on the overtaking sections are evil. What sick twisted grub thought to place one there.

There have been some really good points made in this thread and some good info recieved. One thing really caught my eye though and that is the amount of revenue being raised by speed cameras. It seems fairly excessive to me that 1.3 billion dollars in fines are levied by the cameras. I would think that the state governments are addicted to the revenue and will fight to the death to keep it that way.

I got an official warning last year in Vic for speeding due to my good driving record I think but nearly threw it away for arguing with the copper about the speed kills campaign. I was doing 115 in 100 zone and maintained that it was perfectly safe to do so given I was experienced and my car was in perfect condition and it was in daylight hours.

cheers

[Blown 540]

I am constantly amazed how many people on this forum talk about getting your speed fix on the track when discussing speed limits. I am not talking about getting a fix, I am talking about a reasonable speed limit that people respect. Only yesterday the Sun Herald ran a story on the money being collected in Vic from speed cameras alone. 1.3 billion. I repeat for those who want to say that government is focussed on safety, 1.3 billion! I did a quick calculation, if the average fine is $250 that is 5.2 million fines per year. Now, clearly any law that is broken 5.2 million times a year isn't relevant. Most people are not anarchists so therefore something must be wrong here. I am sure all these people are not getting a fix, just going about the lives in a risk averse way. So please don't lecture me on getting my fix on the track. I just want to drive a reasonable speed across this huge country without being treated like a criminal.

And, why is 100km/h a magical figure. How was it chosen over 30 years ago and does the argument have any basis today. Why is it immoral to question laws which haven't been updated for so long. It is this type of lemming stupidity that allows governments to get away with collecting 1.3 billion in tax, which is all it is, under the pretence that we deserve it because we apparently are all are suicidal nutters trying to kill ourselves at every opportunity.

The point I was making about the US is that the reason for not changing the speed limit for so many years was based on safety. I know that it was introduced in the 70's as a fuel saving measure but that is not the reason why it was kept so long. Yet, despite using the same logic as we do here that there is a magical figure below which you are safe and above which the car apparently explodes, the actual result of changing the limit was not in line with the theory. Indeed, is the theory of the correlation between speed and deaths the only one that is maintained notwithstanding the constant proof that it is just not right?

Lastly, and I am on a rant here, to point to a reducing road toll and state that this is proof of the speed focus working, is not exactly an in depth analysis. You are making one hell of a leap of logic there. Governments love to do this because it backs up their story, but are you discounting the value of the huge safety improvements in cars and roads? Saying there are old cars still on the road is irrelevant. There have always been old cars on the road and in fact the average age of cars on the road now is lower than it is traditionally. So, on average cars are much safer than they were, as are roads. Does anyone here remember the Hume highway when it was a 2 lane road. I do and the road toll on that road alone was horrific. The cold hard facts are that we have been told that every time we drive 5 k's faster, our chance of having an accident doubles. So, that would mean that decreasing the speed limit by 10 k's should cause the road toll on that road to halve twice, that is reduce to a quarter. Have you seen a reducting in the road toll at a quarter since introducing the 50km/h limits in cities? Actually it appears to have been pretty neutral with some states showing a small reduction in areas with the 50 zone and others showing a small increase. Oops, another peice on inconvenient truth there. Better put in a few more speed cameras and collect a few more fines to prove our point. After all, we deserve it for not for not getting our fix on the track at 55km/h. Or is that 105, they really should put speed limits there too so I can work out what is safe.

The rant is over, I feel a little better now. And for the record, I am not bitter because I have long list of fines, in fact I only have 1 speeding fine to my name, I am just frustrated in having to fight to maintain concentration at the mind numbing speed limits on long trips for fear of being fined large amounts of money to drive a reasonable speed.
Wow would have taken me a week to type this , i agree 100 % i just want to speed at a resonable pace,honestly.

[CV860L]

I find sitting at the limit mundane, I am more interested in playing with the radio or vehicle options.

While travelling at my suggested limit I'm more likely to pay attention and watch what I'm doing.

I think it's a $hit system with Bull$hit consequences............

[planetdavo]

I got an official warning last year in Vic for speeding due to my good driving record I think but nearly threw it away for arguing with the copper about the speed kills campaign. I was doing 115 in 100 zone and maintained that it was perfectly safe to do so given I was experienced and my car was in perfect condition and it was in daylight hours.

With perhaps half of Australia's population having a licence to drive, imagine if they let all those people have the power to decide what conditions allow them to exceed the speed limit?
:eyes:
Some interesting opinions put forward in this thread, but ultimately, there are just as many d!ckheads on the roads as there are safe drivers, so rules need to exist for everyone, or chaos will reign supreme. Sure, some are a bit over the top, but the politicians also have to answer to the voters about spiralling road tolls and hoon behaviour, so some of the laws are a response to those situations, where they need to be seen to be doing something!
Also remember that this is a performance car forum, which would for sure contain a fair number of drivers that believe they are some of the worlds best drivers, capable of avoiding any situation at any speed...

[Vulture]

I find sitting at the limit mundane, I am more interested in playing with the radio or vehicle options.

Exactly right! :bow:
On my drives out west every week the same thing happens to me. So boring I play with the satnav etc. fiddle with the radio. All I want to do is the ideal speed for the conditions which is about 110-115km/h on the good bits of road but a colleague got booked for that so it's out.


With perhaps half of Australia's population having a licence to drive, imagine if they let all those people have the power to decide what conditions allow them to exceed the speed limit?

I appreciate your argument but it totally falls down when you consider that a licensed driver is expected to be able to make that kind of judgement when they LOWER their vehicle speed in poor conditions; the corollary to that is to increase vehicle speeds in good conditions. In other words, we are already expected to make a judgement call of the safe speed to travel. The speed limit should be the speed at which the balance between crash risk, injuries and travel time is at the best compromise. I would argue that this number is usually set way low - way below the 85th centile. This just maximises revenue and driver fatigue and frustration.

[iloveholden]

There are a lot of good points on this thread.. But let me point out one thing which really just makes installing speed limiters on cars pointless and expensive..

We know all Jap Imports have a 180km/h limiter on them from factory due to laws implemented by the governments.. Now what does everybody do when they get their hands on the car.. Remove or Disable the speed limiter.. In the case of an R33 Skyline it's wire number 53 on the main wiring loom..

At the end of the day, If it becomes Mandatory, The car makers will make us pay for the 'extra' technology, which Most of us, and don't say "we wouldn't ... would just wait until some electrical guy figures out which wire to cut and it's done... So we'd have to pay more for our car, to then go and cut the wire/disable it anyway.. I'd rather just leave the limiter off and save me time and Money.

I've had my SS up to 302 km/h ... Now If My car topped out at 110 km/h ... I wouldn't be nearly as satisfied with it.. We don't buy powerful cars and modify cars to get more power and go faster, to be stopped when we go a 'bit too fast' ...

I believe in most cases people who die speeding (and I apologize to anyone who has lost someone close to them now) were just idiots. I don't think "speeding kills" ... it's the accidents that do.. a 'smart' person CAN speed, and not hurt them selves or anyone else.. However a Stupid and Unexperienced Person who speeds to be cool, goes outside the limitations of skills/experience and road conditions, and crashed and kills them selves is to a point, supposed to happen. It's Natural Selection, Only Idiot's take their lives and throw them away, Unfortunately they often take innocent people with them. But on the bright side of a tragedy, The person responsible wont be able to harm anyone else again.

But hey - This is only my 2 cents.. I've sped when I was younger and stacked.. Yes on the roads, and Yes while either racing or showing off. However I quickly learned from my mistakes as a young driver and now I know what happens.. and I haven't so much as had a near miss since I was 19 - I'm now 25.. My 'mistakes' came in my first year of driving. After that I educated my self with driving courses, which led me to car racing and so on..

I now Ride a Bike Full Time, and Drive my SS on the odd Occasion - and Yes I still Speed.. and Yes I do things that are illegal.. I enjoy the speed, Power and thrills.. However I know MY limits, my Cars Limits and the Roads limits. I can say with all my heart, as much as I do that would be called 'dangerous' on the roads, I will never hurt my self or anyone else because I think before I act.. I wont drag race someone in a 50km/h zone.. It's like anything.. With Danger Comes Risk - to Minimize Risk you must Think and be Smart..

for example. a soldier in a war, there is danger everywhere which brings risk, if a soldier wants to stay alive, he must think first and be smart.. or he dies.. same as the roads..

My Morale.. Think First, Before you Act. If the Risk is too high, Don't do it.

-The End :)

I agree totally mate


I am constantly amazed how many people on this forum talk about getting your speed fix on the track when discussing speed limits. I am not talking about getting a fix, I am talking about a reasonable speed limit that people respect. Only yesterday the Sun Herald ran a story on the money being collected in Vic from speed cameras alone. 1.3 billion. I repeat for those who want to say that government is focussed on safety, 1.3 billion! I did a quick calculation, if the average fine is $250 that is 5.2 million fines per year. Now, clearly any law that is broken 5.2 million times a year isn't relevant. Most people are not anarchists so therefore something must be wrong here. I am sure all these people are not getting a fix, just going about the lives in a risk averse way. So please don't lecture me on getting my fix on the track. I just want to drive a reasonable speed across this huge country without being treated like a criminal.

And, why is 100km/h a magical figure. How was it chosen over 30 years ago and does the argument have any basis today. Why is it immoral to question laws which haven't been updated for so long. It is this type of lemming stupidity that allows governments to get away with collecting 1.3 billion in tax, which is all it is, under the pretence that we deserve it because we apparently are all are suicidal nutters trying to kill ourselves at every opportunity.

The point I was making about the US is that the reason for not changing the speed limit for so many years was based on safety. I know that it was introduced in the 70's as a fuel saving measure but that is not the reason why it was kept so long. Yet, despite using the same logic as we do here that there is a magical figure below which you are safe and above which the car apparently explodes, the actual result of changing the limit was not in line with the theory. Indeed, is the theory of the correlation between speed and deaths the only one that is maintained notwithstanding the constant proof that it is just not right?

Lastly, and I am on a rant here, to point to a reducing road toll and state that this is proof of the speed focus working, is not exactly an in depth analysis. You are making one hell of a leap of logic there. Governments love to do this because it backs up their story, but are you discounting the value of the huge safety improvements in cars and roads? Saying there are old cars still on the road is irrelevant. There have always been old cars on the road and in fact the average age of cars on the road now is lower than it is traditionally. So, on average cars are much safer than they were, as are roads. Does anyone here remember the Hume highway when it was a 2 lane road. I do and the road toll on that road alone was horrific. The cold hard facts are that we have been told that every time we drive 5 k's faster, our chance of having an accident doubles. So, that would mean that decreasing the speed limit by 10 k's should cause the road toll on that road to halve twice, that is reduce to a quarter. Have you seen a reducting in the road toll at a quarter since introducing the 50km/h limits in cities? Actually it appears to have been pretty neutral with some states showing a small reduction in areas with the 50 zone and others showing a small increase. Oops, another peice on inconvenient truth there. Better put in a few more speed cameras and collect a few more fines to prove our point. After all, we deserve it for not for not getting our fix on the track at 55km/h. Or is that 105, they really should put speed limits there too so I can work out what is safe.

The rant is over, I feel a little better now. And for the record, I am not bitter because I have long list of fines, in fact I only have 1 speeding fine to my name, I am just frustrated in having to fight to maintain concentration at the mind numbing speed limits on long trips for fear of being fined large amounts of money to drive a reasonable speed.

I also agree with you mate, its just revenue raising at the expense of us drivers and know one can do anything about it.

[Party Pete]

If we basically agree that the limits are often too low, then we should be pushing to get them changed. That is the problem, Australians by and large just sit there and cop it. But every time someone suggestes putting the speed limit up on a road the our howls from the ultra conservatives that this will cause carnage and can't be done. The Mayor of Whyalla found this out a few years ago when she tried to put the speed limit up to 130km/h. Our wonderful minister to transport in SA, the same one who gave us 1 way freeway which needs to be shut twice a day to change the direction of travel, said that she couldn't allow the carnage and overrode him. The thing is, that experience here and overseas seems to not back up the carnage theory so we just have to make ministers come up with a real answer to this.

[SS-355]

All this is is BLATANT REVENUE RAISING.Doing 56 in a 50 zone is not dangerous you pricks and im going to court to prove it.Im sick and tired of being treated like a criminal for pissy driving offences.I attribute the lower road toll to increased vehicle safety(airbags,esc) and slightly better roads but the government loves taking the credit for this and instilling this into brainwashed minds of majority of aussies that their road campaign is responsible.PLEASE,if anything they are making the roads more dangerous as people are driving like robots fixated on the rules.A perfect example of this was last week whilst driving on a fwy i approached a roadwork section where the speed reduced from 90 down to 40.Normally this isnt a problem as the lives of our roadworkers is priority, except for the NOB in front who decides he needs to go from 90 to 40 within 2metres of the 40 sign and nearly caused a 4 car nose to tale-AND THIS IS SAFE DRIVING.For fark sake people does anyone have any common sense these days or is this a thing of the past on our revenue raising roads.

[ogre]

All this is is BLATANT REVENUE RAISING.Doing 56 in a 50 zone is not dangerous you pricks and im going to court to prove it.Im sick and tired of being treated like a criminal for pissy driving offences.I attribute the lower road toll to increased vehicle safety(airbags,esc) and slightly better roads but the government loves taking the credit for this and instilling this into brainwashed minds of majority of aussies that their road campaign is responsible.PLEASE,if anything they are making the roads more dangerous as people are driving like robots fixated on the rules.A perfect example of this was last week whilst driving on a fwy i approached a roadwork section where the speed reduced from 90 down to 40.Normally this isnt a problem as the lives of our roadworkers is priority, except for the NOB in front who decides he needs to go from 90 to 40 within 2metres of the 40 sign and nearly caused a 4 car nose to tale-AND THIS IS SAFE DRIVING.For fark sake people does anyone have any common sense these days or is this a thing of the past on our revenue raising roads.

Actually if you had crashed into that NOB, you would have been charged with following too closely, and speeding (by up to 50 Km/h over the limit!).

When there is a lower speed limit sign, you are meant to be at or below that speed by the time you pass the sign. Using this knowledge, if you are following someone that drives legally, you can anticipate their braking needs to comply with the law, and not be caught out when the driver in front complies.

When you are the driver in front and spot the lower speed limit sign, the next place you should be looking is your mirrors, to plan your braking timing and intensity for safe control of your line of traffic. Somehow I think that NOB didn't do this! This is the type of driver that would blitz a VicRoads drive test, but would have frequent "not-at-fault" crashes, because their defensive skills suck big-time!

Watch out also for being booked for "premature acceleration" ie speeding up before passing the higher speed limit sign!

[SS-355]

Understand what your saying mate.This happened on the Western Ring road

and during peak time everyone sits so damn close to each other that your

driving with your heart in your throat the whole time.Jumping hard on the

anchors is a recipe for disaster.As soon as you try to leave a bit of space

someone jumps straight in there.All my years of driving experience and

several performance/defensive driving courses are needed on on this stretch

of road.

[ogre]

Understand what your saying mate.This happened on the Western Ring road

and during peak time everyone sits so damn close to each other that your

driving with your heart in your throat the whole time.Jumping hard on the

anchors is a recipe for disaster.As soon as you try to leave a bit of space

someone jumps straight in there.All my years of driving experience and

several performance/defensive driving courses are needed on on this stretch

of road.

Ah the Ring Road - I call it the Anal Freeway.
The old argument "If I leave a gap someone gets in front". The most common impact between vehicles is nose-to-tail, and the above point is a major factor in setting up the nowhere-to-go situation.
As a former defensive driver trainer, I trained what I call "The Defensive Arts", and the foremost rule is to leave room to stop your line of traffic (given the above crash fact). The space you need in front depends on what's behind you as well as your own stopping distance.
When other drivers get into your space, you will find that rather than positioning themselves just in front of you, they will usually sit just behind the guy you were following. This means it takes little adjustment to reset your survival gap, and it also means that if the sh1t hits the fan ahead, the guy who cut in front will cop it while you and those behind you can pull up in a controlled manner.
Having the discipline to leave a gap comes with other bonuses:

Observation - instead of forcing your attention to the brake lights of the guy in front, you can scan the traffic ahead for what's coming up
Speed-averaging - your improved observation helps you hang back at an average speed while the drivers in front accelerate and brake repetitively
Fuel economy and less wear - your improved speed-averaging results in less futile acceleration and braking
Comfort - speed-averaging is less fatiguing than matching the acceleration and braking bursts of the guy in front, and your passengers get a much smoother ride
Acceleration room - hanging back leaves room you can use for accelerating to match the next gap in the overtaking lane
Cleaner air - ever sat behind an out-of-tune vehicle bellowing its fumes into your vents?

One final point - imagine this:
You're driving along a suburban road, then a kid runs out in front. You jump on the brakes hard, and so far it looks like you're going to make it.
Suddenly, there is a crunch from behind. A glimpse in your mirror shows the grille of an F250. By the time you look back to the front, your windscreen has been broken with a bloodstain at the centre...
When the police question the F250 driver, he says he doesn't leave a gap " 'cause then someone else can get in front".
Moral of the story: The "nobody gets in font of me" attitdude is not worth it.