Aust'n Motoring Associations 2004 Best Car awards:

[Ghia351]

http://www.australiasbestcars.com.au/2004/all.htm

[PepeLePew]

Hmm Falcon wins on performance, ergonomics and depreciation costs.

Very marginal stuff b/w the top 3. Depreciations interesting given the VZ is a significantly different thing to the VY..Id like to know how they judged that one. Like 5L to 5.7 you'd think the engine will be a resale indicator in future b/w VZ and previous. That said, to rate, Falcon has obviously come a long way since AU.

We're just damn lucky we have these excellent base cars to choose from these days. Think back to pov back XD Falcons and VB Commodore and squirm ...

[Rt!]

Ford did quite well.
I still don't think the BA is that great, but I suppose its quite suited for a family car

[Dacious]

Credit where credit is due. Ford did a good job on the BA range, and deserves the kudos. The fact that they turned a clunker (AU) into the belle of the ball and kept costs within bounds shows they have strengths in design and development, too.

Good on 'em, we need a strong local industry or we'll be reliant on tweaked imports (which will get worse with no competition - just imagine being stuck with Taurus' or Crown Vics or GM's front-drivers or 'shudder' Opels). As one industry-type at the awards noted, it goes in cycles, and Holden will respond, then Ford will respond etc. Good for all of us.

[Smitty]

As one industry-type at the awards noted, it goes in cycles, and Holden will respond, then Ford will respond etc. Good for all of us.

I agree.... and that is why our 'locals' are really pretty good value for money

mind you, I have 2 other comments

The Fiesta??? for best Small Car....nope
a very strange car to drive, and you wouldn't wanna be 6' or more talll
my choice would be the Echo (having driven the Barina Echo and Fiesta)
and
the Ford gets this comment, on its way to winning...
"Any buyer looking at the Falcon XT will be impressed by the excellent seat comfort and adjustment for all occupants with some top-quality trim materials not usually seen in this class used to good effect to create a classy cabin."
pardon???
were they looking at the Fairmont, coz imo, the XT interior is far worse than an Exec. Even the Magna has a better interior than the XT....


my 2c

cheers

[Danv8]

"Any buyer looking at the Falcon XT will be impressed by the excellent seat comfort and adjustment for all occupants with some top-quality trim materials not usually seen in this class used to good effect to create a classy cabin."

I don't want to add fuel to the fire but top quality trim materials? uhm no average to good as far I would call it. Although on the flip side I find the seats in the BA to be very comfortable.

But good for Ford anyways on the award even if its is a tad overated. *runs really really fast*
:lol:

[Mongy]

Well, how do you feel guys, I couldn't find an SS in there anywhere. Even in the under 57k sports it was an SV6, not an SS.

[Danv8]

Well, how do you feel guys, I couldn't find an SS in there anywhere. Even in the under 57k sports it was an SV6, not an SS.


I am a bit dissapointed but then I don't take much notice of awards as such. I don't need an award to tell me what is a good car or not. :)

[M&Ms]

This is the second year in a row that no Holden has won anything. Shame really.

[V82xist]

This is the second year in a row that no Holden has won anything. Shame really.

I guess it all depends on where you spend your Marketing budget I suppose :D

[RICHO]

I guess it all depends on where you spend your Marketing budget I suppose :D


It had to come out eventually......

Although, I am suprised that the SS wasn't in there somewhere at least, it doesn't look like it was even included in the pool of cars assessed. And I can't find any explanation or rationale for why they included / excluded certain vehicles.

Does anyone if know if Holden simply didn't provide certain vehicles for testing??

[Phido]

I would guess and say Holden doesn't really care what the AMA think for the SS..

The people who buy SS's or XR8's etc are proberly not going to hold great worth on what NRMA/AMA vote as best family car or sportish car..

It would proberly have more sway with Family car buyers, entry level company cars etc.. Or maybe even executive luxury.

[RICHO]

I think you're probably right..

It probably is an award that means more to company fleet managers and the buyers of base model cars than people who buy cars with a little more of a heart over head approach.

Surprises me a bit because it's in the fleet market that Holden absolutely blow ford away!! Private retail the volumes are pretty close within spitting distance each month but (from a friend in fleet sales) Ford's reps literally cannot get a foot in the door at companies with Holden Fleets, big indicator of brand loyalty right there!! And even when the do, Holden blows them out of the water with the $$ incentives.

Will be interesting to see what affect on award like this (2nd for the XT) will do to the resale value of the Falcon and whether it helps Ford make greater inroads in the fleet market.

[Smitty]

And I can't find any explanation or rationale for why they included / excluded certain vehicles.


the testers all belonged to that special cliquè of automotive bodies
the organization of state automobile clubs....
and
most are or were mechanics, who get told what to drive...

that probably explains a lot....... :confused:

[sKeptiK]

Some harsh words,to say the least, for Holden in the following article relating to the awards from Drive... :eek:

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8767&vf=2&bg=24&pp=5

[Smitty]

Surprises me a bit because it's in the fleet market that Holden absolutely blow ford away!! Private retail the volumes are pretty close within spitting distance each month but (from a friend in fleet sales) Ford's reps literally cannot get a foot in the door at companies with Holden Fleets, big indicator of brand loyalty right there!! And even when the do, Holden blows them out of the water with the $$ incentives.
.
well yes and no.....
we (at work) looked at Ford..to replace all the Holdens...
and went to a local Ford dealer
FORD were simply NOT interested in a fleet discount !
(and this was during the AU debacle..haha)
why??? we only had 67 cars and who knows how many light commercials
FORD said they would only look at a fleet deal if we had more than 100 cars
Holden?? easy! more than 10 cars Sir? you get a discount
more than 50 cars? you get a bigger discount! etc etc etc
If a Ford rep walked in, he would be shown the door, after the treatment we previously got.... :box:

[Mongy]

I guess it all depends on where you spend your Marketing budget I suppose :DNow we wouldn't even think of hinting that this has a bearing on which marque wins an award would we :lol: The mighty $$ strikes again. I don't care what anybody says, motoring writers are human, and all humans have likes / dislikes and prejudices that are different to other humans, so what one journo thinks is great another will probably hate. This is just human nature and unless it is a universally hated lemon I take their comments with a grain of salt. I like to make up my own mind on what I like or dislike, no matter what others think. Yes, I love my SS and I dislike Lada's :lol:

[Nobby]

I think banging on about 'Marketing budgets' is abit of a wank. Ford has NO money for marketing (in any form, legitimate or otherwise).

Oddly, it won on.. bum-bum-BAAAAAM: MERIT!

[Ghia351]

well yes and no.....
we (at work) looked at Ford..to replace all the Holdens...
and went to a local Ford dealer
FORD were simply NOT interested in a fleet discount !
(and this was during the AU debacle..haha)
why??? we only had 67 cars and who knows how many light commercials
FORD said they would only look at a fleet deal if we had more than 100 cars
Holden?? easy! more than 10 cars Sir? you get a discount
more than 50 cars? you get a bigger discount! etc etc etc
If a Ford rep walked in, he would be shown the door, after the treatment we previously got.... :box:

Having worked for Holden youself you must realise that the fleet policy, (a major downfall in the sales of AU's ) was set by the factory so how can you blame any dealer for what they could offer? When we bought our XE and EL the policy was 10 cars or more for fleet and please submit the rego numbers...

[Ghia351]

Some harsh words,to say the least, for Holden in the following article relating to the awards from Drive... :eek:

http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8767&vf=2&bg=24&pp=5

I have to hire a car on Monday so I'll try and make it a VZ and see how the Alloytec 175 drives because it does seem to be copping reviews that consistantly state it is not a noticebly great leap over the Ecotec. It must annoy Holden to receive some neutral (at best) press when in order to keep price increases to a minimum they developed the 175/A4 version. I can't help but feel that all the pre-launch marketing about world class engine and brand new manufacturing plant has drawn the ire of some press the way sporstmen/celebs cop the "tall poppy syndrome". My own drive should give an indication although granted it will only be based on one drive of one hire car.

[Venom XR]

Awards from motoring organisations who don't support ordinary drivers when governments propose idiotic ideas like 130km/h speedos?

Meh...

[BossV8]

Yes to us enthusiasts I guess it's more to do with bang for buck, where the SV8 or SS would be the front runners. Taking a look at what some blokes have done with their cars here there is not much to do to shave off a few seconds.... but I spose these awards look at the whole picture

In terms of marketing I think Ford has changed their ways of it. Lately there has been a LOT more marketing for a wide range of BA models, whereas before there was stuff all. The ratio between cars built vs cars sold for BA seems to be pretty good so I'm thinking for this BA MkII they have only made minor, low cost changes that at the same time will attract buyers as it is successful already, which leaves them more $$ for marketing. A good move in my book.....

[HSVMAN]

Yet the buyers are the real judges and thats what matters.
Commodore is so far ahead of its rival this year the lead is unbeatable. October was a record month and sales forcasts are for further growth :lol:
Dont know what cars they've been testing, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise the new engine is light years ahead of the old in performance, quality and technology plus economy gains are better than expected :confused:

[F6 Hoon]

I got $5700 fleet discount on the XR6T, they didn't even want to know how many cars my business has :)

[Evil LS1]

Of course the commodore must be a better car as more people buy it. :rolleyes:

Ford might not be a great car but only commodore owners don't think it is slightly greater than their car.

[Ghia351]

Of course the commodore must be a better car as more people buy it. :rolleyes:

Ford might not be a great car but only commodore owners don't think it is slightly greater than their car.

Does that mean VB beer is the best beer in Australia because more people buy it? Greatest sales numbers doesn't equal best of anything, price comes in to it just slightly as well.

[lowriding]

Does that mean VB beer is the best beer in Australia because more people buy it? Greatest sales numbers doesn't equal best of anything, price comes in to it just slightly as well.

Of course the highest selling isn't the "best" - but one could argue that it's obviously considered the best allrounder for the majority of customers ,price determined. One thing for sure is that the number 2 and 3 best selling isn't here nor there,it's nuthin'-except the second or third "best". :confused:

[M&Ms]

Of course the commodore must be a better car as more people buy it. :rolleyes:

Ford might not be a great car but only commodore owners don't think it is slightly greater than their car.

So why have all magazines, reviews and awards been in the favour of the BA Falcon lately???

[VXEXEC350]

So why have all magazines, reviews and awards been in the favour of the BA Falcon lately???

Because without brand competition car builders would become complacent like the russion Trabbi.

The difference between Ford and Holden is a spit in the ocean really. Holden is pecieved as being more Aussie and that accounts for a lot of its' popularity. Also some of us were stung with crappy 70s and 80s Falcons. Then there was the EA then the AU :rolleyes:

I have read some comparison articles that to me favour the Commodore, ie; more apointments better handling faster and cheaper to run but in the last paragraph say the Falcon was the better car. Lets face it if they ALWAYS backed Holden that would be all we could buy. Besides why take any notice of them at all, Wheels voted P76, COTY (not the only oinker either) and the XD Falcon won an Australian design award. They dont always get it right. I recently read an article where Wheels scathingly critiqued the VT...only 7 years after they heralded it as the best Aussie car ever made. Motor journos are either very fickle or recieve payola.

:bash:

[HSVMAN]

So why have all magazines, reviews and awards been in the favour of the BA Falcon lately???

Maybe cheaper for ford to payout journalists than spend on marketing and development :lol: Plus the writings of some magazines are purchased or copied from others. Who cares really?
Seriously, i wish you would drop the ford vs holden thing it only shows your inability to think laterally and repetitive comments slanted at rubbishing Holden product on a Holden forum seems to be the style of several ford people - but if you must.... I was referring to lame media comments the new engine isnt an improvement over the old :confused:
At the end of the day the brands are competitive enough for a purchaser to decide on the car they like - not the cheaper. Plus buyers realise they need to buy a car that holds resale value better. Its called "total cost of ownership"
Falcon have been dropping their pants on both side of the Tasman to boost sales - to no effect. Commodore sales are climbing. Falcon is a great car, nothin wrong with it. I think Commodore handles and drives better. You may not - thats great :)
I'm probably in the fortunate position of knowing what goes on in both camps from R&D perspective and have the benefit of having owned and driven both. But I know what I drive and I know what I sell :D

[RICHO]

It's great to see that someone has raised total cost of ownership...
From a fleet perspective that means looking at:
- Residual values (i.e. depreciation)
- Servicing costs
- Cost of insurance
- Running costs (petrol consumption)
- Ongoing maintenance (tyres etc)
- The actual cost of purchase (or base price less fleet discounts / subsidied offered)

Now everyone will probably have a differet set of data to look at, of these there are probably only two that I believe are conclusively in Holden's favour. One is definitely running costs and Holden have a clear advantage in this are, the 2nd is the actual cost of purchase, Holden's fleet discounts and subsidies in the fleet market are more generous and offered to a larger number of customers than Ford. Believe me Ford's pants are not as far down as many would believe and atm Holden's pockets are far deeper than Ford's. Therefore on a total cost of ownership basis, Holden is going to win many more conquests than it loses.

So if I were a Fleet Manager, making a decision that would give the bext outcome for my employer from a total costs perspective...it would be bloody hard not to lean towards a Holden based fleet, both from a Total Cost of Ownership perspective, AND more importantly a relationship management perspective, an area where Holden has a far better track record over the past 5+ years than does Ford. Just my opinion. but when it comes to fleets I believe that Holden do it better.

But what does that mean?? Does it mean a Commodore is better than a Falcon or visa versa, not necessarily. What it means is that Holden as an organisation have a better understanding of, and better relationships with their customer base. And that understanding and those relationships have been built up over an extended period, and are something that it will take a Holden mistake to damage, I can't see Ford making significant inroads unless Holden have their own AU disaster. And I hate to say it, but I think Holden are to smart for that.

I'll still by Ford's privately of course..but credit where credits due

[Ghia351]

I'm probably in the fortunate position of knowing what goes on in both camps from R&D perspective and have the benefit of having owned and driven both.
So why then the difference in the alloytec between the US installations and the neutral at best write up of alloytec 175's especially. Can you please out what are the power/torque outputs of the BA replacement Barra220 & Boss260/290?

[LuKeY]

Hmm no Holdens

[HSVMAN]

So why then the difference in the alloytec between the US installations and the neutral at best write up of alloytec 175's especially. Can you please out what are the power/torque outputs of the BA replacement Barra220 & Boss260/290?

Who knows? Dont know what the writers expected or what the tests involved but 175 engine is a definate improvement in efficiency, quieter, smoother and more powerfull. If you lined it up over 400m with the old ecotech (I've done) it doesnt start to shine untill around 80km/h which is where its needed as the previous engine was very strong off the mark anyway.
The 190 is a different story. More power all the way with all of the other attributes which is what you would expect from an engine with just under 200kw (din) :D
Cant answer your other question on Ford 220 but 260 has 500nm and 290 has 520nm

[Knight Phlier]

Seems obvoius too me that Josh Dowling just doesn't like the new VZ. He has written a number of articles and fails to point out some critical advances the VZ has made, such as safety improvements and fuel consumption to say the least, let alone performance (They say that the fuel consumption isn't that great but I thought it bettered Falcons? Wasn't the 3.8 Ecotec already more fuel efficient?)

It made me laugh when Drive did their first Ford vs Holden comparison with the VZ about 6 weeks ago. Yeh It made me think completely differently about a Mr. Joshua Downling and Mr. Bob Jennings... The XR6 Turbo vs SV6.
Weren't they evenly matched?? From top-notch journo's who said this was the best match they could have with the SV6?? hahahaha. I could have told them that the SV6 is the same market/class as the XR6 (NON TURBO) and that the SV8 would be the same market/class as the XR6T (Albeit the most likely matched, but not the same). Yet these 2 supposedly good Motoring journalists didn't realise this? :mad:

Would it not have made sense to compare the SV6 to the XR6, and the XR6T to the SV8 in that comparison? I am sure that Holden and 90% of this forum's members would have thought so, but for Josh and Bob - How could they justify the Ford payments if this were the case? :eek:

[HSVMAN]

Unfortunately some journos dont look at the big picture or how their writings contribute to their credibility down the track (whatever the subject) :confused:

Bit like comparing a Vectra 2.2 to a Subaru twin turbo :bash: same mentality different performance results, higher price and running costs on the turbo.
If they compared the SV6 with XR6 it has similar power - (approx 15kw (din) advantage) and comparable pricing and market status.

There is also a definate improvement in brakes/handling/steering across the VZ range yet some of them havent noticed it, maybe they were all in the same car and one of them had to take the notes :lol:

However for every dissapointing review there is a very positive one and they dont buy the cars do they....

[RICHO]

Seems obvoius too me that Josh Dowling just doesn't like the new VZ. He has written a number of articles and fails to point out some critical advances the VZ has made, such as safety improvements and fuel consumption to say the least, let alone performance (They say that the fuel consumption isn't that great but I thought it bettered Falcons? Wasn't the 3.8 Ecotec already more fuel efficient?)

It made me laugh when Drive did their first Ford vs Holden comparison with the VZ about 6 weeks ago. Yeh It made me think completely differently about a Mr. Joshua Downling and Mr. Bob Jennings... The XR6 Turbo vs SV6.
Weren't they evenly matched?? From top-notch journo's who said this was the best match they could have with the SV6?? hahahaha. I could have told them that the SV6 is the same market/class as the XR6 (NON TURBO) and that the SV8 would be the same market/class as the XR6T (Albeit the most likely matched, but not the same). Yet these 2 supposedly good Motoring journalists didn't realise this? :mad:

Would it not have made sense to compare the SV6 to the XR6, and the XR6T to the SV8 in that comparison? I am sure that Holden and 90% of this forum's members would have thought so, but for Josh and Bob - How could they justify the Ford payments if this were the case? :eek:

The first test I saw was SV6 v XR6 (Non Turbo)...

The result went in favour of the Ford on that test as well...

People seem to forget the Journo's are just people who are have opinions, inherant biases etc etc. They real difference between a them and a layman is that they have a whole lot more experience to draw on when making comparisons. It's always amusing when reviews don't go in the favour of our respective cars Ford's in my case, Holden's in the case of most people here (and I'm as guilty as the next bloke!) that we suddenly hate the journo's think their stupid because obviously (and I know some people here have extensive experiecne in the industry, so this can't go for everyone) but "we" know better than professional journo's who drive write about cars for a living. Now that IS completely illogical.

It's be said a thousand times, read about a car learn about another persons impressions of its strengths and weaknesses and then go drive it for yourself. If you like it by it, if you don't keep shopping.

[Ghia351]

Who knows? Dont know what the writers expected or what the tests involved but 175 engine is a definate improvement in efficiency, quieter, smoother and more powerfull. If you lined it up over 400m with the old ecotech (I've done) it doesnt start to shine untill around 80km/h which is where its needed as the previous engine was very strong off the mark anyway.
The 190 is a different story. More power all the way with all of the other attributes which is what you would expect from an engine with just under 200kw (din) :D
Cant answer your other question on Ford 220 but 260 has 500nm and 290 has 520nm

You're comparing performance which should be a given, its the NVH issue the testers seem to conflict on.

Unless you misread my question, maybe you better speak to your R&D sources re the Fords as the Nm you mention are current engine values?

[Swordie]

Sales (http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,11364593%255E21822,00.html)

TOP 10 MODELS - October 2004


Holden Commodore 7869
Ford Falcon 4512
Toyota Corolla 3679
Toyota Camry 3554
Nissan Pulsar 2716
Toyota Hilux 2349
Holden Astra 2213
Mazda3 1888
Holden Ute 1865
Mitsubishi Magna 1847

[RICHO]

And your point is??

[HSVMAN]

It is a very valid point according to the title of this thread :D

[Danv8]

Mitsubishi Magna 1847[/QUOTE]

These buyers have no taste!
:lol:

[Knight Phlier]

Yes and another point the journo's completely sidestepped in the review.
Along with the braking / performance / improvement to fuel economy of the VZ.

[HSVMAN]

Game Over :D

[RICHO]

But only if we pick and choose the "facts" we want to believe.

For example
Ford had a one week shutdown during the month
The Territroy is taking up an increasing proportion of production at Campellfield
Holden have appox 40-50% more production capacity in Australia than Ford, run 3 shifts to Fords two and at faster line speeds

The Falcon simply won't outsell the Commodore unless it's during a month where Holden production is affected or they play funny buggers and hold back a large fleet order for delivery in one month (as happened early late last year from memory??)

It's that simple.

[LT8888]

It is a very valid point according to the title of this thread :D

Title is:
Aust'n Motoring Associations 2004 Best Car awards

and not

Aust'n Motoring Associations 2004 Best Selling Car awards

One doesn't neccessarily equate to the other. :rolleyes:

[HSVMAN]

Title is:
Aust'n Motoring Associations 2004 Best Car awards
and not Aust'n Motoring Associations 2004 Best Selling Car awards
One doesn't neccessarily equate to the other. :rolleyes:

First two models in sales results are:

1. same market
2. same price range
3. same buyers

Which would you rather have, an award? Or nearly twice the sales of your opposition? I know what Fords answer is.

No excuses :D

[RICHO]

Similar Cars - Check couldn't agree more

But

Different manufacturers with different production priorities

In a NORMAL month, Holden's larger production capacity SHOULD see Commodore outsell Falcon by approx 1500 units (the production difference). If that doesn't happen, Holden have unsold production in that month.

In October with Ford's 1 week shutdown...Commodore SHOULD have outsold Falcon by approx 3000 units (the production difference) and it outsold Falcon by OH MY GOD!! just over 3000 units.

So one could infer...that In October

Holden had a great month!! They "Sold" all Commodore production and cleared some of the remaining VY stock

Ford also had a great month. They "Sold" their October Falcon production (reduced as it was by a shutdown)

As for twice the sales or an award...personally, I'd like to be selling everything I was capable of building at the maximum possible margin for the market AND win awards. That way I'd be maximising the potential profit for my business.

I'd argue that both Holden and Ford are doing exactly that, the real difference being that Holden are capable of building a heap more cars than Ford.

An excuse from a FF?? Yeah okay it is...but hopefuly it's also a little more factual and logical than that....

[Ghia351]

First two models in sales results are:

1. same market
2. same price range
3. same buyers

Which would you rather have, an award? Or nearly twice the sales of your opposition? I know what Fords answer is.

No excuses :D

You obvioulsy would like to sell as much as you can push out the door. However its what you can make in total and sell in total with as little difference between the two that is the most relevant in making money. I'm guessing Ford's margins are greater per car and throw in multiple awards by what the PUBLIC will perceive as a broad range of objective judges and forget about any games, boys play them. And I bet you this is the situation EVERY car maker would like to be in..especially Mitsubishi.

P.S Did you find an answer to my earlier post on kW/Nm figures from you R&D mates regarding next years BA replacement?

[BA$TAD]

First two models in sales results are:

1. same market
2. same price range
3. same buyers

Which would you rather have, an award? Or nearly twice the sales of your opposition? I know what Fords answer is.

No excuses :D
really clutching at the last few straws there?
Ford have been breaking their own personal records for sales and they seem to be happy with that result. Having another award is the icing on the cake for them.

[LSX-438]

But only if we pick and choose the "facts" we want to believe.

For example
Ford had a one week shutdown during the month
The Territroy is taking up an increasing proportion of production at Campellfield
Holden have appox 40-50% more production capacity in Australia than Ford, run 3 shifts to Fords two and at faster line speeds

The Falcon simply won't outsell the Commodore unless it's during a month where Holden production is affected or they play funny buggers and hold back a large fleet order for delivery in one month (as happened early late last year from memory??)

It's that simple.

is it really that simple, make more (like twice as many) and automatically sell them all?

Good on Ford for winning these awards it all helps advance the cause for improved local product, assuming Holden respond. I can see how they were underwhelmed with the Exec, maybe the 2 engine strategy has back-fired a bit here. Personally an Exec review is kind of pointless, it's just too povo and next to nobody buys one for the family.

[Ghia351]

is it really that simple, make more (like twice as many) and automatically sell them all?

Good on Ford for winning these awards it all helps advance the cause for improved local product, assuming Holden respond. I can see how they were underwhelmed with the Exec, maybe the 2 engine strategy has back-fired a bit here. Personally an Exec review is kind of pointless, it's just too povo and next to nobody buys one for the family.

I'm sure the Exec/XT are the volume sellers in the range which pay the bills while the rest make up the icing on the profit cake so in that sense they are the most important models in the range and far more spec & price sensitive.

Re the two engines, you raise an interesting point as I don't think the Calais price rose by much b/w VYII and VZ and yet the features it gained in safety and performance seem like a bargain for the cost increase and make it my favourite easily. And yet I thought the Alloytec175/A4 was retained to keep Exec price increases down especially for fleets. It would be a safe bet it's one V6 engine across the range for VE.

[LSX-438]

I'm sure the Exec/XT are the volume sellers in the range which pay the bills while the rest make up the icing on the profit cake so in that sense they are the most important models in the range and far more spec & price sensitive.

Re the two engines, you raise an interesting point as I don't think the Calais price rose by much b/w VYII and VZ and yet the features it gained in safety and performance seem like a bargain for the cost increase and make it my favourite easily. And yet I thought the Alloytec175/A4 was retained to keep Exec price increases down especially for fleets. It would be a safe bet it's one V6 engine across the range for VE.

sure it makes sense for fleets, and that is money is (anyone have the model split btw?) it's just not really relevant for the average family buyer.

[lowriding]

sure it makes sense for fleets, and that is money is (anyone have the model split btw?) it's just not really relevant for the average family buyer.

True -The avg "family" buyer would purchase ,in reality , an "equipe"(when avail) or "acclaim" IMO, but both of these run the low spec exec mechanicals IIRC so the review is valid . I have said from the get go the two engine strategy is flawed - I thought of the Falcon EA 3.2 throttle body inj/3.9 multipoint fiasco straight up , how long did the 3.2 last?? .Holden has a short memory. Consider this - When you buy an XT Falcon you get the Fairmont Ghia Mechanical package ....
Holdens idea is OK for keeping the fleets happy and for price elasticity BUT it has sullied the entire range IMO. If they continue with the nonsense then at least in VZ2 it should be 175kw/4 spd auto in EXEC and exec only . HF /5spd full range and for goodness sake just make A/C std equipt. I find the Commodore 6cyl range too bloody confusing - can't remember which model gets which engine and which gearbox and so on .

[Ghia351]

I have said from the get go the two engine strategy is flawed - I thought of the Falcon EA 3.2 throttle body inj/3.9 multipoint fiasco straight up , how long did the 3.2 last?? I think a fly lives longer then the 3.2!

[LSX-438]

we're talking about 2.5% difference in final scores, there's not much in it. the Exec has such a povo vibe... it's a pity this is our candidate for our 'best family car' award. i would probably select an XT if I was looking for a shopping trolley too.