Bracks & Batchelor Slammed

[Bitza]

It looks like the feds have shot down the speedo idea.
Got this from drive.com.au.

A FAILED 20-year-old US safety strategy to limit speedo readouts to curb speeding, resurrected by the Victorian Government, looks doomed after Federal Government rejection.

The State Government's desire to limit speedo readouts to 130 km/h was tried in the US in the 1980s, when speedos were limited to 85 mph (137 km/h), but was dumped mid-decade for failing to reduce the road toll.

Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor argues high speedo numbers lure some into speeding, upping the crash risk.

"Limiting the speedometer display to about 130 km/h will remove the incentive for motorists to drive at excessive and dangerous speeds," he said.

Victoria Police supports the initiative but declined to explain to Drive how it would be enforced and whether aftermarket fitting of fully calibrated speedometers would be allowed.

Mr Batchelor was to submit the proposal to the nation's transport ministers last Friday but a chorus of voices headed by the Federal Government slammed the idea.

"The Australian Government does not support the Victorian proposal," a spokesman for the Deputy Prime Minister (and Federal Transport Minister) John Anderson said.

Your Say: Would limiting speedo readings to 130 km/h improve road safety? Email your opinion to drive@theage.com.au or write to the Editor, Drive, PO Box 257C, City Mail Processing Centre, Vic, 8001.

[Ryzz]

It looks like the feds have shot down the speedo idea.
Got this from drive.com.au.

A FAILED 20-year-old US safety strategy to limit speedo readouts to curb speeding, resurrected by the Victorian Government, looks doomed after Federal Government rejection.

The State Government's desire to limit speedo readouts to 130 km/h was tried in the US in the 1980s, when speedos were limited to 85 mph (137 km/h), but was dumped mid-decade for failing to reduce the road toll.

Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor argues high speedo numbers lure some into speeding, upping the crash risk.

"Limiting the speedometer display to about 130 km/h will remove the incentive for motorists to drive at excessive and dangerous speeds," he said.

Victoria Police supports the initiative but declined to explain to Drive how it would be enforced and whether aftermarket fitting of fully calibrated speedometers would be allowed.

Mr Batchelor was to submit the proposal to the nation's transport ministers last Friday but a chorus of voices headed by the Federal Government slammed the idea.

"The Australian Government does not support the Victorian proposal," a spokesman for the Deputy Prime Minister (and Federal Transport Minister) John Anderson said.

Your Say: Would limiting speedo readings to 130 km/h improve road safety? Email your opinion to drive@theage.com.au or write to the Editor, Drive, PO Box 257C, City Mail Processing Centre, Vic, 8001.
Finally someone with some sense in our government, i didnt think they existed but maybe they do after all!!

I especially like the fact that they said no research has proven that limiting the speedo to 130km/h would have any impact on accidents. On that note, i dont think the Vic government had any proof it would either before jumping on their soap box and demanding this!!! :soap:

[BA$TAD]

and this is Tom Gorman's Response

SPEED
HUMP

GoAuto -news e NOVEMBER 17, 2004 Page 2
Phone: (03) 9598 6477 Fax: (03) 9521 0264 E-mail: newsroom@mellor.net

Ford president fires up over proposal to speed limit vehicles
Steve Bracks Tom Gorman
FORD Australia president Tom Gorman has
reacted angrily to a Victorian Government proposal
to limit vehicle speedometer displays to
around 130km/h.
The plan was announced by Transport Minister
Peter Bachelor last week and will be taken to this
week’s Australian Transport Council meeting in
an attempt to change Australian Design Rules
relating to speedos.
"The issue of limits on power and on top
speeds of motor vehicles registered for on-road
use should be considered at a national level," Mr
Batchelor said in a press release.
"Unfortunately, some motorists use their speedometer
as a guide to see how fast a car can go.
"Limiting the speedometer display to about
130km/h will remove the incentive for motorists
to drive at excessive and dangerous speeds in order
to test the limits of their vehicle," asserted Mr
Bachelor, who added it would also result in better
defi nition of the actual speed being travelled by
a motorist because speedos would span a smaller
range, rather than up to 220km/h or higher.
But the suggestion has met with an outspoken
response from an uncharacteristically heated Mr
Gorman, whose company’s new F6 Typhoon
performance sedan was the subject of controversial
debate last week in some newspapers and in a
Melbourne talkback radio interview with Premier
Steve Bracks, who backed the idea.
"If I were an Australian citizen I would frankly
be offended that for some reason I’m the only
human on the planet that is not responsible
enough, and cannot be trusted, to drive a car in the
proper manner," said Mr Gorman, an American,
when questioned by GoAuto on the issue.
"Every other citizen in the world can do that,
except in Australia. And I don’t fully understand
why that is.
"These are the things I would like to talk to
Peter about: what is it that’s in the Australian
make-up that I’m not seeing that is an indication
that as a citizen you are so irresponsible that the
government needs to manage your behaviours in
such a way. I just don’t get it.
"We employ 5000 people, 99 per cent of them in
the state of Victoria, and I think I matter, my company
matters, and if I’m doing something you’re unhappy
with then pick up the phone and call me.
"That didn’t happen so now we’re going to get
into this 'piss and moan' to the press which is not
the way to do business. We need to sit down and
understand what his issue really is. If his issue is
road safety and fatalities on the road and severe
injuries, then we’re totally aligned.
"As the president of the FCAI (Federal
Chamber of Automotive Industries) as well as the
president of Ford, we’re doing a lot on that front,
which involves several activities.
"Number one is road design: fi x your roads.
I mean, you don’t have to drive around a lot in
Australia to realise the roads here are not good.
So you need to fi x your roads.
"Number two is about behaviour modifi cation
and we need to participate in this, whether it be
driver training or awareness on speed, drink-
driving, whatever. We have a responsibility to
deliver safe vehicles and I think we do that with
both active and passive safety levels.
"And we have a responsibility to present our
vehicles to the marketplace in a responsible
manner, which we do.
"We have a voluntary code of behaviour for
our advertising which we follow and if we don’t
follow it the ads get pulled, so I don’t see what
we’re not doing as an industry."
Mr Gorman said the Australian car industry’s
inability to import and export common vehicles
around the world, if the proposal was approved,
would make it uncompetitive, and that car
companies could potentially face lawsuits by
people caught speeding excessively who claimed
their speedo indicated just 130km/h.
"I don’t think the way to deal with this is to take
the privilege away," he said.
"What has the typical Australian done to lose the
privilege of driving their vehicle?
"I have no issue with holding people to a speed
limit, but what you’re mandating is: I don’t trust
that you’ll do the right thing, therefore I won’t
give you the opportunity to do the wrong thing.
"It’s like saying ‘I don’t believe you can be a
responsible adult when it comes to drinking and
driving, therefore I’ll take away your right to
consume’.
"There are a lot of issues that drive road fatalities:
speed is one, fatigue is another, alcohol is another.
"So given that Australians are clearly not responsible enough to drink and
drive sensibly we should ban alcohol ... and then and then and then.
"I don’t know of a country in the world that mandates speed limiting its
vehicles."
Mr Gorman, who described Typhoon as a "red rag to a bull", said the FCAI
was in active discussions about road safety, and that the next FCAI meeting
would deal with driver training.
"The FCAI AGM invited road training experts, many of whom said it made
young drivers more aggressive," he said.
"I’m not saying they’re right or wrong but there’s enough debate about
it that it requires some serious attention and that we as a group and as a
country ought to design a driver training program that works, that teaches
people how to drive responsibly.
"Things like how to drive evasively, to pull over when you’re tired, to give
the keys to someone else when you’ve had too much to drink. It’s nothing
to do with the vehicle – it has to do with the individual."
– TOM GORMAN

[PepeLePew]

They'd be better off having a law restricting the hanging of large fuzzy dice from the rear view, do you know how distracting that is?

Wow for once you could actually say SOMEONE showed some common sense. Still they got some headlines so they're likely having a little flog over that right NOW.

[Devil CV8]

They'd be better off having a law restricting the hanging of large fuzzy dice from the rear view, do you know how distracting that is?
there already is... you're not allowed to have anything hanging from the rear view mirror.....

[IIV8II]

...and all this from a State Gummint that doesn't see the merit in annual safety inspections of motor vehicles...

[smoke]

That was an excellent response from Mr Gorman. He said basically what most of us know, and have been saying all along. Hopefully its sinks into the heads of the people who make the decisions.( pity he is blue oval :D ).

[scat2k3]

Hopefully its sinks into the heads of the people who make the decisions.

All pigs fed and ready to fly.

Why can't these half wits spend their time on the real issues like education health and the like.

The old man got pulled over on the way home from the Royal Easter Show one year when I was a lad. One of the show bags had a rubber glow in the dark skeleton and he hung it from the rear view. The copper spotted it while we were at the lights and waved him over. He reckoned that it could appear as a pedestrian when approaching a crossing. :lol: Fair enough I spose but jeez that would be one crook looking pedestrian.

Cheers,

Scott

[F6 Hoon]

This issue of road safety was brought the the attention of Parlaiment by the member of Tagney in his maiden speech today(not available online yet). He says, to summarise:
The states use speed detection and enforcement as a method of revenue raising, rather than a method of crash reduction
The states have a blatent disregard for the national measurement act (referring to lack of recognition by the states for ADR speedo tolerance)
The states do not base speed limits on scientific merits (such as the 85th percentile). This was recently high lighted in either Motor or Wheels magazine

I think that the level of enforcement is going to become a federal government issue, and they will probably intervene on a state level to change the road safety stratagy enforced by the states.

It's interesting to note that all the states and territories are now Labor, and all adopt the same road safety strategy. Collectively they receive over $1 billion per year through enforcement, yet the road toll is stagnant.

Hmmm.

[Kirium]

Should see eye to eye with Mr John Anderson... and that can't be a bad thing for a country sick to death of being robbed by their state government for driving (within the tollerances of their speedo)..

[keepleft]

"This issue of road safety was brought the the attention of Parliament by the member of Tagney in his maiden speech today(not available online yet). He says, to summarise:
The states use speed detection and enforcement as a method of revenue raising, rather than a method of crash reduction
The states have a blatant disregard for the national measurement act (referring to lack of recognition by the states for ADR speedo tolerance)".


Yes, Dr Dennis Jensen is a regular contributor of many years standing at the 'aus.cars' Newsgroup, is an author and like the Deputy PM, an automotive enthusiast although with a 'technical background' on the subject. He had retired from the DTSO (Defence Technology) to make the move into politics only recently.

If your a mature reader, you might like to keep tabs on Mr Jensen's move into politics and give him support and encouragement. He deals extensively on complex technological issues and will work to ensure fair play in enforcement and road-user responsibility. His number one responsibility is of course to his electorate in WA.

The Commonwealth Government finally has a member, whom I know, is more than capable of handing difficult Agencies, Authorities, Individuals and Lobbyists and parliamentary colleagues.

A final note: A few days ago ADR 18 (speedometers) upgrade to UNECE harmonisation was to be signed by Anderson, the Commonwealth Transport Minister and Deputy PM. This according to DOTARS would make the speedometer accurate @ 100km/h, but within 'plus 10%', AND +/- 4km/h over that!!

Jeremy H. Pritchard
Motorist's Advocate-NSW
mot.adv@gotalk.net.au

[bobg]

A few days ago ADR 18 (speedometers) upgrade to UNECE harmonisation was to be signed by Anderson, the Commonwealth Transport Minister and Deputy PM. This according to DOTARS would make the speedometer accurate @ 100km/h, but within 'plus 10%', AND +/- 4km/h over that!!
Just to make it clear, the amendment to ADR 18 means that the speedo cannot read lower than the actual speed for any speed up to 100km/h.

But it can read up to 10% more than the actual speed - which is pretty much what manufacturers do now anyway [hence their lack of objections to the change and it sort of aligns with ECE and FMVSS requirements] 'cause they don't want to get hit with some law suite that they were negligent in providing the driver with needed info to avoid a speeding fine.

Over 100 km/h it must be within 4% of the actual speed and again most existing systems will meet this even though ADR 18 currently allows 10%.

Regards

Bob G

[QIKMIK]

Just to make it clear, the amendment to ADR 18 means that the speedo cannot read lower than the actual speed for any speed up to 100km/h.As some of us may know, VZ now has the old "cop mode" digital speedo as a normal step when hitting the Mode button. My VTII analogue dial reads about 2kmh faster than the digital, but on the VZ wagon at work, both analogue and digital read the same.

Mick

[Beej]

Dennis Jensen in Federal Parliament!! Holy Dooley! I know of Dennis over many many years of discussions on the "aus.cars" news group! Anyone who is interested should do a search through the deja.news archives - Dennis is a car enthusiast and is passionate in his opposition to incorrectly set speed limits, over zealous engorcement etc - he personally has taken a couple of speeding tickets to court and chellenged the "state" on both technical ground and legal grounds and won. He has had long standing arguments over many years with members of the NSW highway patrol who are also regular aus.cars contributors.

I don't want to get too hopeful, but with the likes of Dennis in the federal government we may finally have a true car enthusiasts voice in parliament. He would be a good person to write letters to about these issues -I can only begin to imagine his reaction to the Bracks stupidity!!!

Do Dennis!

Beej

[plonkerchops]

did anyone see RAy Martin last night where the bloke with the Discovery refused to pay the fine for a couple of kays over the limits and went to court, argueing ADR speedo variance and got off....?
he was suggesting that everyone take it to court and clog the system up...much like what MOTOR have been suggesting for some time...
I guess it was only a matter of time before someone dug their heels in .....

[smoke]

All pigs fed and ready to fly.


The old man got pulled over on the way home from the Royal Easter Show one year when I was a lad. One of the show bags had a rubber glow in the dark skeleton and he hung it from the rear view. The copper spotted it while we were at the lights and waved him over. He reckoned that it could appear as a pedestrian when approaching a crossing. :lol: Fair enough I spose but jeez that would be one crook looking pedestrian.

Cheers,

Scott
IF the pedestrian looked that bad, run em over! It would be classed as a mercy killing :lol:

[Devil CV8]

[QUOTE=plonkerchops]did anyone see RAy Martin last night where the bloke with the Discovery refused to pay the fine for a couple of kays over the limits and went to court, argueing ADR speedo variance and got off....?QUOTE]

we had one in NSW where the bloke admitted speeding 40k over, caught by camera, and the magistrate had to dismiss on a technicality. Apparantly the legislation says each pic must have an individual identifier that includes letters, numbers AND symbols... that pic only used letters and numbers, no symbols, therefore the pic is invalid.....even tho he admitted that , yes it was his car, yes he was driving, yes he was speeding.

Gumbys answer, rush legislation to close the loophole... so be quick everyone, unless its retrospective any camera pics that don't comply can be beaten.

[Kirium]

I saw carl scully on nightline tonight, and he said that he'd attempt to make the ammendment to the legislation retrospective so speeding motorists were punished, and that they'd be appealing the decision. he then went on to say that people who thought they could get out of old tickets should wait until the outcome of the appeal before they go hiring lawyers... :rolleyes:

what a tosser... it's so infuriating that scum like him have become so attached to revenue from speed cameras that they'll do anything to protect it or keep it...

if you're reading this carl, you're a wanker.. :booty:

[exploder]

if you're reading this carl, you're a wanker.. :booty:

Whats worse is his boss doesn't have and has never had a drivers license.... :eek:

[Danv8]

[QUOTE=Beej]Dennis Jensen in Federal Parliament!! Holy Dooley! I know of Dennis over many many years of discussions on the "aus.cars" news group!

-----
Yeah I remember him as well I wondered where the bugger went.
------


I don't want to get too hopeful, but with the likes of Dennis in the federal government we may finally have a true car enthusiasts voice in parliament

-----
Agreed Dennis is very inteligent and I hope he can really make a Monkey out of Bracks and co. :)

[keepleft]

The Hon. Dr Dennis Jensen maiden speech is available at:

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr171104.pdf

The speech starts at page 80, with his reference to speed issues at the top of page 82.

Okay,-
You can gather Ls1 forum people the Commonwealth we are changing the focus in this country to one of 'individual responsibility' over State sponsored 'nanny care'. This will permit greater allowance, but also mature responsibility that comes with it.

Pay attention over the next few years to increased discussion of Commonwealth directed driver training, with an emphasis on 'defensive'. Make it clear in your mind to write what you'd like to see in driver education and behaviour in that field.

We can expect a tightening of existing ADR's, plus new market regulated vehicular equipment, modernised driver training manuals, ARR changes and so on.

R for now - JP.

[F6 Hoon]

The Hon. Dr Dennis Jensen maiden speech is available at:

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr171104.pdf

The speech starts at page 80, with his reference to speed issues at the top of page 82.

Okay,-
You can gather Ls1 forum people the Commonwealth we are changing the focus in this country to one of 'individual responsibility' over State sponsored 'nanny care'. This will permit greater allowance, but also mature responsibility that comes with it.

Pay attention over the next few years to increased discussion of Commonwealth directed driver training, with an emphasis on 'defensive'. Make it clear in your mind to write what you'd like to see in driver education and behaviour in that field.

We can expect a tightening of existing ADR's, plus new market regulated vehicular equipment, modernised driver training manuals, ARR changes and so on.

R for now - JP.

Thanks. I'll be sure to pay the member for Tagney a visit soon :)

[VXSS346]

Look on the bright side. If your doing an obscene speed like 200 km/h down the Hume hwy, and get caught, you can say "I thought I was only doing 130" :lol:
Might get off with a fine!!!!!!
What a pack of losers 'we' voted in! :doh:

[VeeTee346]

[QUOTE=Beej]Dennis Jensen in Federal Parliament!! Holy Dooley! I know of Dennis over many many years of discussions on the "aus.cars" news group!

-----
Yeah I remember him as well I wondered where the bugger went.
------


I don't want to get too hopeful, but with the likes of Dennis in the federal government we may finally have a true car enthusiasts voice in parliament

-----
Agreed Dennis is very inteligent and I hope he can really make a Monkey out of Bracks and co. :)

Here here!

I followed Dennis' excellent threads and unquestionable research on speeding matters on aus.cars for years back in my uni days.

I too suggest everyone takes an interest and keeps an ear out on what he's got to say.. at last we have a pollie 100% in our corner. Hurrah!

[HardcoreLS1]

This guys got my support!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[zeta1]

That's something I'd love to do, slam Bracks and Batchelor!

[clixanup]

Holy threadmining Batman!

[Shane-o]

Another attempt at "CONTROL", Soon no more freedoms left here in OZ.
What the hell did my ancestors fight for, Slowly and sneakily they take away our priveliges.Soon it will be compulsory to get a permit from your local council before you can have sex with your girlfriend/boyfriend,Husband/Wife!

Victoria"The police state", That should be on all license plates soon.:rolleyes:

How about they just ban ALL cars and make us walk or get public transport then there will be zero road toll, And they can milk us for even more money from using public transport. Where does it end?
"Aldous Huxley : Brave new world" is getting closer":doh:

[MICK_EZEKIEL]

Victoria"The police state", That should be on all license plates soon.:rolleyes:



No it's just going to be Victoria - The Place To Leave

Germany is looking good this time of year :nyuk: Bring the Transport ministers from Germany over here for a bit please!!!

I only hope a big swing towards Liberal comes before November 20 and Bracks and Batchelor can not longer put the motoring public through this crap!!

And on another note... Tomorrow I have to go to work on Batchelor's "fast rail" as i do everyday... aaarrr 800 million dollars and my train is a whole 5 minutes SLOWER!! :bravo: :bravo:

[furys8]

bracks and his moron transport minister are nothin but dickheads,all this vic:driving: :flipoff: government is after is revenue from motorists,u only have to see how many speed cameras there are in vic as opposed to the other states,2000more than the closest state:cussing: if i seen bracks walking across the road id quite happily run the basterd over.

[throttlehappy]

bracks and his moron transport minister are nothin but dickheads,all this vic:driving: :flipoff: government is after is revenue from motorists,u only have to see how many speed cameras there are in vic as opposed to the other states,2000more than the closest state:cussing: if i seen bracks walking across the road id quite happily run the basterd over.

:lol:
i hate you bracks/batcholer

[MICK_EZEKIEL]

http://tex.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/VicParl/members/Batchelor.jpg http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/images/pol/bracks.jpg

Take aim at the above with your car Furys8.... :p However are you sure the car isn't just going to bounce off Brack's nice boofy hair-do?? :p

[VXSS346]

Batchelor is worse IMO, as well as his speed camera bullshit, he won't fix the public transport system which I use daily.
But thats another story.:mad:

[keepleft]

[QUOTE=Bitza]It looks like the feds have shot down the speedo idea.
Got this from drive.com.au.

"A FAILED 20-year-old US safety strategy to limit speedo readouts to curb speeding, resurrected by the Victorian Government, looks doomed after Federal Government rejection". Rest snipped.

THIS was dealt with back in December 15, 2004 by then deputy PM Anderson in parliament at the National Driver Training Scheme introduction.

Another attempt by the idiots running Vic to enact 'control' outside their borders.

Another failed Joan Claybrook idea, so typical of the academic extreme left.

[throttlehappy]

Batchelor is worse IMO, as well as his speed camera bullshit, he won't fix the public transport system which I use daily.
But thats another story.:mad:

dont forget the fast train
what a f*cking joke that is
:rocket:
die batchelor
die a horrible death