LS2 a certainty for VE???

[hsv423]

Hey,
i havent seen this posted anywhere before, so i thought i'd ask...is it a dead set certainty ( or 99% certain ) that the ls2 will make its first appearance for holden in the all new platform ve???..i thought it was..but then i read the GM 2005 Powertrain article .. http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/ ... and clicked on 'LS1' in the selection of car engines...under all the facts n figures about the LS1 it says 'Applications', and they are the Holden VE & W...im not too bright but figured it meant that this engine will be in the cars VE and W? (WK range? WL??).......it also says that the max kW and torque of the LS1 is 261 kW and 508 Nm of torque...
at the moment the VZ SS is putting out 250kW and 470 Nm of torque..
so maybe the VE SS will have 260 Kw and 508 Nm of torque.....
or maybe im wrong :)

[XLR8 V8]

Considering the LS2 has already been shoved between the front struts in the VZ HSV's, I think there's a better than decent chance they will debut into the standard Holden range once VE hits.

[Jac001]

Looking back at history...

VS got the new ecotec V6
VT keeped the same V6 and V8
VT series 2 got the new 5.7L v8

VZ got the new alloytec V6

I would suggest that VE will keep the LS1

and either series 2 or more likely the next model after will get the LS2 (if at all).

This gives each model some thing and a reason for the comsumer to upgrade. IT will also give HSV greater distiction from the Holden range.

Remember this is pure spectulation on my part.

[SSFreak]

If I remember correctly, GM is winding down production of LS1 engines and will eventually cease manufacturing them. LS1 is to be replaced with LS2. HSV are supposedly getting a 6.2 litre variant of the LS2 with the release of VE.

[SASLS1]

I have heard that LS2 will be exclusively for HSV vehicles only when VE is released so HSV has the upper hand over standard holdens. This makes sense, as whats the point of buying a HSV, if you can buy a standard range holden with the same performance.

Yes over time the LS2 will makes it way into the standard holden range, but don't hold your breath.

[FPV GTHO]

From what ive heard it wont be for VE, but as some people are speculating it could be in a series 2 VE

[V-Car]

Remember that the LS1 is just one variant of the GEN III range, there was all the other sizes and options etc. like the ZO6, and the LS2 is the first of the GEN IV's.
By the time the VE comes around there will probably be other versions and sizes of the GEN IV, not just the 6.0 LS2 but maybe a 5.7 LS? with all the LS2 GEN IV upgrades over the LS1.
I reckon the LS1 will be long forgotten and phased out by 2006.

[Jag530G]

My 2 Cents:

Holden range will have LS2 with 297Kw (ie current HSV Motor)
this will leave room for the 3.6L Twin Turbo with 276-280Kw
and the Alloytec 190 standard Atmo engine accross the range
(I have read elsewhere that this can be bored/stroked to 4 litres, room for upgrades in VF?)

HSV will pobably use 6L LS2 (Maybe 6.2, as speculated), with the upgraded exhaust system for 330 Kw, this being the motor in the Sydney Show GTS/R. You don't seriously think HSV went to the effort of developing such a softly tuned engine for a track car do you?

My other reason for beleiving the LS2 will go in the Holden range is by using it in the VZ HSV's reliability issues can get sorted.

I know from other threads some members are annoyed about Holden following on features and technolgy from previous model HSV's and ruining resale values, but that issue aside, I like the idea of new technology/developments being used on the HSV first, think ABS brakes on Series 1 VP Senator, later on Series 2 VP Holdens and the Toe Control links on VT Series 2 GTS (and before that the Lotus/Vauxhall Carlton) and then on VX Series 2 Holdens.

All in all, I think it is fair to say that you can forget about standard brakes and 16 inch wheels (the current V8 Berlina) being available with the V8/V6TT.

[mavss]

I just felt a cold shiver go down my spine with the realisation that the Gen IV may not be in the SS till 2007 :O

Then again, I wasn't planning on jumping into the VE till Series II so it might work out pretty well :)

[jneil]

I have heard that the car manufactures, those dodgy news programs and the pollies have all got together and had input into the VE and we'll be driving giant marshmellows with 2 x AA batteries and a top speed of just 3km/h.

I would like to think that i'll be in a LS2 SS or Clubbie in VEII format though.

[Drewie]

Maybe the LS2 will go into the VZII SS or VE SS and the LS1 will stay in the SV8 seeing the updated SV8 is getting more like what the SS was like. The SS will need something to justify the extra cash. I just wish Holden would stop pumping out a new model every 12 months, 7 models from VT in '97 to VZ in '04 is crap no wonder the resale drops, would be nice to buy a new car and have it stay a current model for a few years.

[hsv423]

Would Holden use both the LS2 V8 AND THE LS1 V8 in the first series of VE??????
My thinking is that they release the SSV8, Crewman SS, Statesmen & Calais V8 with a LS2 engine, putting out 270kW while leaving the SV8 and all the other not-so-special V8's with an LS1 engine putting out say 255kW... Also putting the Alloytec 190 as standard for all V6's in the VE.....I think its unlikely that they put an LS2 SS in VE that puts out a whopping 297kW....Cuz HSV sales would plummet and they go from a VZ SS at 250kW to a VE SS at 297kW.....

[ABS]

I agree. The LS2 Commodore SS will probably pump out 270kW so that it doesn't hurt the HSV range.

[FPV GTHO]

Well ive heard from good authority that HSV dont want Holden to use the LS2 for VE to keep some exclusitivity in their range, but i suppose thats not so bad as theres plenty of life in the LS1 still.

[Gobbles]

Keep in mind as well the VE isnt due until 2006 (well last i heard) and since that GM site is stating the 2005 Engine line up for GM Subsidaries.....makes sense that the LS1 is going to stay in holden.....oh just wait it actually states VE on the site there...hmm the idea sounded good in my head anyway

[Goggles]

05 GTO Specs here:

http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/pontiac/gto/index.html

same power as the Z Series HSV cars.

[hsv423]

i think its a poor effort tho if they were to put the LS1 in the VE, sure it has basically unlimited potential but we've had the LS1 for god knows how long, we need a change. I dont care what HSV says, Holden and HSV are two seperate companies and should be able to do as they wish. We should only be happy with an LS1 that pumps out 265kW + i reckon.

[GTS JaZzA]

My 2 Cents:

Holden range will have LS2 with 297Kw (ie current HSV Motor)
this will leave room for the 3.6L Twin Turbo with 276-280Kw
and the Alloytec 190 standard Atmo engine accross the range
(I have read elsewhere that this can be bored/stroked to 4 litres, room for upgrades in VF?)


so then why did people pay 30 to 40 grand more for their VZ HSV's when they could have waited a year to get the same thing but way cheaper?

[FireyVT]

Don't forget the VE will most likely be much much fatter than the VZ, the LS1's performance will be blunted by this so I think the LS2 should get the nod.

Jag530G I read that before the Alloytec can even be increased to 3.8 Litres the heads have to be changed, or something along those lines.

[FPV GTHO]

i think its a poor effort tho if they were to put the LS1 in the VE, sure it has basically unlimited potential but we've had the LS1 for god knows how long, we need a change. I dont care what HSV says, Holden and HSV are two seperate companies and should be able to do as they wish. We should only be happy with an LS1 that pumps out 265kW + i reckon.

Holden got the LS1 in 1999, thats hardly a long time

[muzza]

Well - I cant see Holden putting LS1's and 2's in VE's.
LS1's are being phased out over the next year.

My crystal ball says:
HSV will get a premium version (as always) with the power uprated to say 310 kW and stock Holden SS/SV8's will get a "detuned" LS2 of around 270kW by strangling the exhaust and hobbling the computer (as usual).

[jneil]

Well - I cant see Holden putting LS1's and 2's in VE's.
LS1's are being phased out over the next year.

My crystal ball says:
HSV will get a premium version (as always) with the power uprated to say 310 kW and stock Holden SS/SV8's will get a "detuned" LS2 of around 270kW by strangling the exhaust and hobbling the computer (as usual).

I think you are right on the money!! I really don't think we are going to jump straight to 297kw LS2, we'll start off smaller, around 270kw, then move up slowly like in previous years.

[plonkerchops]

i think its a poor effort tho if they were to put the LS1 in the VE, sure it has basically unlimited potential but we've had the LS1 for god knows how long, we need a change. I dont care what HSV says, Holden and HSV are two seperate companies and should be able to do as they wish. We should only be happy with an LS1 that pumps out 265kW + i reckon.

didnt they have variations of the 5.0 for 30 years??? :eek:

[kane_tools]

didnt they have variations of the 5.0 for 30 years??? :eek:
Isn't a LS2 just an evolution on the LS1 in that many bits carry over/interchange.
Pics of each motor look virtually identical

[muzza]

didnt they have variations of the 5.0 for 30 years???

The 308/304/355 was made here, designed by Holden. So they could do what they wanted with it. The LS1 and 2 are of course imported so apart from exhaust, intake and computer fidles they have little say about the basic architecture. I mean, we have a market worth a few tens of thousand engines a year whereas the US/Canada must be ten times the size.

There were rumours a while ago that Holden would make the Gen III's here when they got their alloy casting plant going (to make the HFV6) but as that was going to be Ion's baby maybe it was just that - rumours. Does anyone know if the Port Melbourne engine plant will keep running, be refurbished or what?

[hsv423]

Isn't a LS2 just an evolution on the LS1 in that many bits carry over/interchange.
Pics of each motor look virtually identical
....i thought the LS2 was a variation of the LS6?