TT3.6 When - If at all?

[TimVYSS]

My question guys is, any guestimates as to whether we will see the TT36 in a VZ or VE, and if so what type of kw would it make. I know that the engine in the Torana made 270kw, but would they release a six with that much HP - or would they reduce it a bit so as not to outdo the LS1's?

Thanks for your responses.

[vyss2004]

I dont think it will be any time soon, holden wont make the same mistake back in 86-88 with the nissan vl turbo, remember the VN was the car that saved holden. Also they have stopped seeling the astra turbo's in australia they are a great car i dont know why. I personally reckon the vl was a success look at the resale value at current on them. As hsv boss stated we target only one market and thats V8 who knows????

How will a v6 turbo go? anyone been in a v6 turbo car before if so plz explain

[MrCLubby]

I thought it was the VL that saved Holden??? Then they had to abolish the nissan 6 due to the economic rise in price of the engine in export....so they opted for something cheaper from the US (the buick). :cool: look it up...

[Jac001]

The nissan motor was just a stop gap because Holden didn't have anything that met federal regulation.

Holden was in major finacial trouble at this time, Toyota invested a substantial amount of money into the Elizabeth plant so the VN could be built. This lead to Holden and toyota sharing certian models, (commodeore rebagded as the Lexon(sp?) and camry/ apollo etc.

The VN was a hit because it was a larger car then the VL and and it came at just the right time and the public loved it.

Holden vehicle manufacturing almost came to an end with the VL.

The VL was/ is a lovely car but was not finacialy successful.

[PaulST]

My question guys is, any guestimates as to whether we will see the TT36 in a VZ or VE, and if so what type of kw would it make. I know that the engine in the Torana made 270kw, but would they release a six with that much HP - or would they reduce it a bit so as not to outdo the LS1's?

Thanks for your responses.
People I've talked to who do contract work at Holden seem to believe that a twin-turbo V6 is well off. 2010 is the earliest date apparently.

[muzza]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if HSV bring out the TT 3.6 first given their stated aim of modifying their "V8 car maker only" tag. 2010 seems way too far away to be realistic. I'd tip 2006.

[PaulST]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if HSV bring out the TT 3.6 first given their stated aim of modifying their "V8 car maker only" tag. 2010 seems way too far away to be realistic. I'd tip 2006.
While I doubt that HSV could ignore the turbo idea, they are still saying that they have no plans. Insiders seem to agree with the official company line too.

From what I've read from people who do contract work at both Ford and Holden, there is no current development program for the twin-turbo V6 in 3.6L form, which is why it would be 2010 at the earliest. I raised the engine in the Torana, but they are 100% certain there are no planes.
Remember guys, don't shoot the messenger, I'm only saying what I've been told. Other info about Ford I've been told from that source has been correct too.

[Decromin]

I raised the engine in the Torana, but they are 100% certain there are no planes.


Watch out for those HSV planes - I wonder if it's Cessna they would be owrking with :)

I wonder what the benefits of the TT6 would be over the 8? The LS series motors are allready pretty light, so I can't see mass being the big issue.

[PaulST]

Watch out for those HSV planes - I wonder if it's Cessna they would be owrking with :)

I wonder what the benefits of the TT6 would be over the 8? The LS series motors are allready pretty light, so I can't see mass being the big issue.
LOL, you're a mod. Can ya change it to 'plans' :D

[FPV GTHO]

The nissan motor was just a stop gap because Holden didn't have anything that met federal regulation.

Holden was in major finacial trouble at this time, Toyota invested a substantial amount of money into the Elizabeth plant so the VN could be built. This lead to Holden and toyota sharing certian models, (commodeore rebagded as the Lexon(sp?) and camry/ apollo etc.

The VN was a hit because it was a larger car then the VL and and it came at just the right time and the public loved it.

Holden vehicle manufacturing almost came to an end with the VL.

The VL was/ is a lovely car but was not finacialy successful.

That was the Buttler plan, all 5 manufacturers were in it at the time:

Commodore's as Lexcen's
Camry's as Opollo's
Corolla's as Nova's
Pulsar's as Astra's
Patrol's as Maverick's
Falcon ute's as Nissan ute's

Ford and Nissan actually jointly developed the Pintara/Corsair

[paulvdb]

I wonder what the benefits of the TT6 would be over the 8? The LS series motors are allready pretty light, so I can't see mass being the big issue.

The TT6 makes absolutely no sense at all. If you think about the issues that Holden would be facing...

Cost - a TT6 made in small quantities will be no cheaper than an LS2 shipped from Canada.
Weight - a TT6 isn't going to be any lighter than an LS2
Emissions - a TT6 MAY be a little cleaner than an LS2
Fuel - a TT6 is going to use the same or more fuel than the LS2
Power/Torque - makes no sense, roughly the same or less than an LS2
Size - not an issue in a Commodore
Marketing - a TT6 is going to attract more attention from the idiots in the press and the Scruby-alikes
Long term risks to Holden - more parts, more difficult to service

So why would Holden release this engine? Unless the AUD/USD ratio changes in the next few years then buying LS2's makes heaps more sense.

The only way the TT6 will come out would be for a performance version of the Torana. So if you say the GMH gets the go-ahead for the Torana this year they'd not release that till 2007-2008 so a sports version with TT6 woudn't come out until the next version (to prove the sales of the product) in 2010-2011.

I'm sure GMH could launch this engine next week if it wanted to but, with my bean-counter hat on, it simply doesn't add up.

[Red CV8 R]

What about the entire market who dont want a 6 litre V8 or maybe a V8 at all? XR6T has opened a whole host of new buyers for the blue oval, who is to suggest the TT3.6 would not do the same for Holden?

[Merlin]

Weight - a TT6 isn't going to be any lighter than an LS2
Emissions - a TT6 MAY be a little cleaner than an LS2
Fuel - a TT6 is going to use the same or more fuel than the LS2


Don't know about those two - surely a 3.6L six is going to weigh less than a 6l V8 and use less fuel (if driven appropriatley), I could be wrong though.

[IIV8II]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if HSV bring out the TT 3.6 first given their stated aim of modifying their "V8 car maker only" tag. 2010 seems way too far away to be realistic. I'd tip 2006.
xu6 :lol: ............

[Holden]

Just so you know what Holden is saying - TT36 remains a concept car at this stage, despite the e-mails, calls and letters we've been getting from Australia and overseas DEMANDING production. It's always great to stir real interest and discussion - including pilots of other brands.

[vyss2004]

Ford have marketed the xr6 turbo and the typhoon perfect they hit the market at the right time and have been sucessful. You guys are right a tt3.6 would cost holden heaps, not money but in the v8 market which they have in their hands. The VL nice but it wasn't a holden engine nissan a good one at that, but the all australian xr6 turbo is the right turbo engine for australia and the parts are easy to get.

Can anyone tell me how a tt v6 goes if they have driven one in another make and model???

i would really like to know?


All i can say is holden stick to what you do good and thats V8 (bring on the gem 4)

[AndrewCowley]

Just another headline grabbing but otherwise useless Holden show car. So exactly what made it a Torana? The stupid exterior colour? The equally stupid white interior? So it was a slightly smaller sedan than a Commodore. It must be a Torana then. Simply clutching at straws and in the end and no real association of new with old. Everybody just wanted Monraro V2 since it had been a few years since a motor show win had been scored with that one.

[Rick76]

IMO a large part of the success of the XR6T is the comparitive lack of performance (and value) from the XR8 (and FPV V8s) for the extra $5K+ it costs. If the stock XR6T was detuned a little more or the prices were closer it would be less successful than it has been.

While the 6T has probably attracted some new buyers to this segment, XR8 sales have no doubt sufferred from the 6T's success. As it stands, if I was after a performance Ford it would be an easy choice between XR6T and XR8 given the initial lower cost, value for money (equipment & performance), potential performance from mods, etc. The only big advantage the XR8 has for me vs the XR6T is the exhaust note :bow: V8

Variety is great for the consumer but for the manufacturer its a toss up as to whether its viable to develop a new engine to go in the same platform when there are already two in use. If Holden did the TT6 Commo and was mainly attracting SS buyers (rather than increasing market share with Ford/other buyers) then they wouldnt really have achieved much. If it was to go in a different platform (Torana) then great. I just dont really see the point of developing it solely for Commodore use given the similiarity in performance it would have to the V8 and the potential the LS1/2 engines have.

[Red CV8 R]

I cant agree with that. Since Ford has a V8 option guys that are traditional XR8 buyers and V8 lovers buy that car, it doesn’t matter that it is slower then the turbo model it just has to sound like an 8. Read alot of the threads on here and the Holden guys say that in the same situation they wouldn’t buy the car that is faster they would still buy the V8 powered version. They just want a V8 Holden.

I know lots of people who would not ever buy a V8 (in fact hate them) and wouldn’t have previously considered a Holden or a Ford who have moved into XR6 Turbos. XR8 never even a thought. I have seen the wider benefits Ford have gained from the XR6T, before Ford was spat on by most other car enthusiasts but now they are seen as the most technological advanced Australian Manufacturer, they have respect now from corners where it wasnt there before. They are a viable option if moving to something bigger from a WRX, Skyline, 200sx etc where as Holden are seen as dinosaurs and for bogans. Holden fans might not want to see it but this is the case.

Holden need a performance engine which attracts more buyers then your traditional V8 crowd. This market will not help them in the years to come as being younger myself I know these guys are not interested in V8s they want technology, turbos, dohc etc not large capacity pushrod V8s. Any number of forums will show you that. They could fall into the same trap Ford did when removing themselves from V8s in the touring cars, you will hurt your future following. I am seeing this now with the younger guys, they want Skyline GTRs and WRXs not SS and XR8s. Obviously not all but most.

I actually think that if Ford had stuck with V8 racing the Xr8 and GT would be more popular, i think the lack of Ford V8 followers as apposed to Holden V8 followers is what is really hurting Ford and it was a good move to introduce a turbo 6 and V8 Falcon. Don’t the XR models account for like 30% of Ford sales? I wonder what the break down would be? Obviously the XR6 would be the bulk but I see alot of XR6 turbos around!

Holden does not offer a performance car if you don’t want a V8 which is very short sighted if you ask me and I know the V8 market is only so big so it can only be bad for resale values! I really think they need to broaden their range myself but it seems that is not going to happen.


Just my 2c

[TriShield]

The HF was designed for forced induction, and it's supposed to be turbocharged for use in upcoming Buicks and Saabs, I don't see why Holden wouldn't use it themselves after displaying it in the concept.

[PaulST]

The HF was designed for forced induction, and it's supposed to be turbocharged for use in upcoming Buicks and Saabs, I don't see why Holden wouldn't use it themselves after displaying it in the concept.
That's right, although I believe the engine capacity is 2.8L (and possible 3.2).
The only way I can see any chances of a TTHFV6 is if Cadillac or even Alfa Romeo want the engine for a mid-sized or large car. I see you're form the US TriShield, how would they react to a turbo Cadillac?

[muzza]

There's a couple of points of view on this.

One, Holden can bring it to market to combat Ford's XR-6T. Ford are obviously on a winner with this. It would be relatively easy to introduce as the motor has already been developed O/S. How about SV6T anyone?

Two, with the inevitable gradual rise in petrol price and slow decline in availability of crude oil the TT should be a more fuel efficient option yet still offer excellent performance comparable to (but slightly less than) the LS2. Holden may move the V8 models a bit further upmarket and make the rung below them for the SV6T as the step after the SV6.

The V6T could also be quite good for use in the Adventra where (with a decent auto or manual) it should provide better economy yet good on-road performance. It may also package the front of the car better for the AWD perhaps avoiding drive shafts thru the sump?

Holden naturally will not comment about future plans so we can have lots of fun speculating :lol:

[seldo]

Ford have been quite clever with the 6T in that they captured the big car market for several categories of buyers. They get those who are impressed by the name/badge in that "Turbo" is very impressive and has come to have a generic meaning of "power and speed" to many. They also get those who think they can have their cake and eat it too by getting turbo power and the economy of a six :eyes:....He says "I want a V8" but the handbrake says "No, they use too much petrol" so he opts for the 6T with the logic that it will use less gas... Then they also get those in the know who understand how easy it is to get another 100 or so kw and who prefer the supposed technological superiority of a F/I dohc 6 over a big pushrod V8... And no, I don't want to start yet another debate over the actual technical superiority of one design over the other ;)

[daabido]

Button plan.


I quite enjoyed the Pintara, despite Wheels magazine rating it a dog in the latest issue.

It was fairly powerful in 2.4 litre guise and pretty light as well.

Good memories...



That was the Buttler plan, all 5 manufacturers were in it at the time:

Commodore's as Lexcen's
Camry's as Opollo's
Corolla's as Nova's
Pulsar's as Astra's
Patrol's as Maverick's
Falcon ute's as Nissan ute's

Ford and Nissan actually jointly developed the Pintara/Corsair

[PepeLePew]

Ford have been quite clever with the 6T in that they captured the big car market for several categories of buyers. They get those who are impressed by the name/badge in that "Turbo" is very impressive and has come to have a generic meaning of "power and speed" to many. They also get those who think they can have their cake and eat it too by getting turbo power and the economy of a six :eyes:....He says "I want a V8" but the handbrake says "No, they use too much petrol" so he opts for the 6T with the logic that it will use less gas... Then they also get those in the know who understand how easy it is to get another 100 or so kw and who prefer the supposed technological superiority of a F/I dohc 6 over a big pushrod V8... And no, I don't want to start yet another debate over the actual technical superiority of one design over the other ;)

As I grow older and more responsible, I'd have to take a good look at that lovely new Falcon XR6. Darling, I'm going to be responsible and get a six this time. Wife smiles, not in the least understanding or caring about the turbo badge on the ass... :)

Its a very real thing and a choice I'll face for one when my lease runs out. Holden dont really offer a similar option....

[FPV GTHO]

Button plan.


I quite enjoyed the Pintara, despite Wheels magazine rating it a dog in the latest issue.

It was fairly powerful in 2.4 litre guise and pretty light as well.

Good memories...

I must be getting confused with those idiots in Victorian Parliament