Brave new world - SV6 and SV8 [Archive] - Australian LS1 and Holden Forums

Nawdy

08-01-2005, 11:46 PM

* From Cars Guide, NT News, Sat 8th Jan

Powerful sports styling, more special features, Holden is giving the Commodore SV8 a makeover to match the striking looks of its new six-cylinder performance sibling, the SV6

If it's good enough for the SV6, then it's good enough for the SV8.

The Holden Commodore SV8, to be released next month, has been given an increase in standard specification to better align with the SV6.

The decision reflects customer feedback that most Holden performance car enthusiasts want to make a statement rather than blend into a crowd.

Alan Blazevic, Holden's marketing manager passenger cars, said the move to give the Commodore SV8 the same sporty design cues as the popular Commodore SV6 was consistent with the company's market-responsive philosophy.

"The Commodore SV6 has immediately struck a chord with buyers - so much so that our S car sales in November were 95 per cent up on the same month in 2003", Mr Blazevic said.

"It's very much our business to anticipate changes in customer demand. Performance car buyers are becoming more particular about what they want in these high-profile vehicles, and we're determined to retain our winning edge in this market segment."

"We're delighted with the response to our 190kw VZ Commodore SV6 and we are confident that V8 enthusiasts will be quick to appreciate what a great deal they're getting with this revitalised Commodore SV8 sports package."

The performance of Commodore SV8s high output 250kw Genlll V8 engine will be highlighted by more overt sports styling cues a deep front facia with for lamps, large air dam with hexagonal mesh insert, mesh grille, black bezel headlamps, side and rear skirts and sports-styled five spoke alloy wheels.

The 2005 Commodore SV8 offers body-coloured exterior mirrors, leather wrap steering whell, power windows all round, side impact airbags and sports-styled or optional leather trim.

Among new colour choices for 2005 is the brilliant Impulse Blue to be shared with Commodore SV6 and SS.

Increases in power and torque delivered with the launch of the VZ Commodore SV8 and Commodore SS (250kw of power at 5600rpm, 470Nm of torque at 4800rpm) were complemented by improved braking systems which feature Brake Assist and Electronic Brakeforce Distribution.

The new Commodore performance range will be available from February 1.

The Commodore SV8 colour range includes Heron White, Redhot, Phantom Mica, Quicksilver Metallic and Impulse.

The recommended retail price for the SV8 starts from $43,990.

Optional extras include leather trim, six disc in-dash CD system, rear parking assist and metallic paint.

Gobbles

09-01-2005, 07:40 AM

do the SV6 and the SS share the same body kit? if so wouldnt most people be taking the SV8 over the SS due to it being cheaper and still available with leather trim?

team illucid

09-01-2005, 07:51 AM

I think most people would take the SS over SV8 for resale reasons, as the SV8 still has a "poverty pack" issue at street level, and is harder to sell because of it ...

PepeLePew

09-01-2005, 08:42 AM

Hmm, moving the SV8 a little more upmarket again, its getting to the point where you have to play pick the difference, what the hell are they doing?

IMHO there is nothing povo pack about even the Exec these days. What are they going to do for SS to differentiate it more and justify the extra?

spiritfc

09-01-2005, 08:47 AM

What are they going to do for SS to differentiate it more and justify the extra?

LS2 maybe.....?

team illucid

09-01-2005, 08:51 AM

IMHO there is nothing povo pack about even the Exec these days. What are they going to do for SS to differentiate it more and justify the extra?

I agree .. maybe it is time to drop the pretence, can the SV8 line and drop the SS price by $5K

markone2

09-01-2005, 08:52 AM

I think most people would take the SS over SV8 for resale reasons, as the SV8 still has a "poverty pack" issue at street level, and is harder to sell because of it ...

:D More homework required on that one.......the humble Poverty Pack SV8 just happens to be the one Commodore with the least amount of depreciation

team illucid

09-01-2005, 09:00 AM

:D More homework required on that one.......the humble Poverty Pack SV8 just happens to be the one Commodore with the least amount of depreciation

I was talking about resale not depreciation ... two cars in the caryard, one an SS the other an SV8, generally the SS will go first - profile of an SS owner is mostly over 30, which means they have grown up with all the hot holdens bearing the SS nametag, and they havent heard of the SV8 ... :)

Timson

09-01-2005, 09:15 AM

Now what do we do for that sleeper look. My car goes un-noticed because it looks like an exec with some cheap wheels and thats the appeal of the SV8 range for me. With the new SV8 looking more like an SS with a similar body kit and front fog lamps it will have lost that wolf in sheeps clothing that I think alot of people liked about the SV8's. Bring back the V8 Exec's or even better how about manual Berlinas, subtle looks, a bit of luxury inside and no slush box.

Cheers,

Tim.

Drewie

09-01-2005, 09:43 AM

The new SV8 looks a very appealing package, i think it will sell very well and make big inroads into SS sales, unless the SS gets something special like the LS2 maybe, reading the specs on the SV8 it really is very nicely optioned.
If I decide to update the VX SS I would have a good look at the SV8.
You are really not getting much more for all the extra cash they are asking for the SS. Strange marketing ploy to have 2 cars so close in specs.

group 3

09-01-2005, 09:51 AM

Just a thought, but I wonder if it might take sales from the SV6? Not that much more money and we know the fuel economy of the LS1 is pretty good...

neilo63

09-01-2005, 09:52 AM

It seems that they are enticing people who would like an SS but wouldnt spend the money. The V8 exec wouldn't be appealing to these people because thats all it is and exec with a v8 i think these buyers want a sports feel and holden are catering for them. Also there are way too many SS's on the road i see more than one everyday. That could hurt resale so holden in effect made a "poverty package" This might also deter people from buying SS bodykits and putting them on lesser models as this "lesser model" comes with all the things this buyer wants without the added cost.

blackduck

09-01-2005, 10:27 AM

a munual V8 Berlina, now you're talking :D

Gasser 350

09-01-2005, 10:36 AM

ABS

09-01-2005, 10:38 AM

A manual V8 Belina would be an awesome idea. The V8 Berlina is currently the sleeper of the range. However, it's nearly as expensive as the SS and is only available with the craptacular 4 speed auto.

PepeLePew

09-01-2005, 10:41 AM

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.

Gasser 350

Well if true that'd be a well kept secret.

Of course there have been snifters of LS2's in cooking models before so maybe.....

Nawdy

09-01-2005, 11:15 AM

I think that it's good that the SV range will get it's own distinctive looks. One of the things that turned me off buying an SV8 was, in my eyes, it was an exec with a V8 and badges.

I think you will find the SV range is being pitched to a demographic that is different to SS purchasers:

SV purchasers would probably tend to be a bit younger, and don't have the financial wherewithal to buy an SS; or those who view the SV8 as a bargain SS.

SS purchasers would tend to be a bit older and more financially affluent, and have probably grown up with the SS name.

Now it seems the SV8 will probably move from "povo pack" status to fitting neatly into the Holden range. The only thing I'm not sure about is that the SV8 sounds like it could be a bit boy racerish (but don't worry about this bit, I'm just a doddering old fart...)

mavss

09-01-2005, 11:26 AM

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.

Gasser 350

If this is true :

the purchase of my next SS will be brought forward a good 12-18 months
if I had just purchased a VZ SS, I would :spew: like a banche
:bawl:

hsvLS1255

09-01-2005, 11:30 AM

Well if true that'd be a well kept secret.

Of course there have been snifters of LS2's in cooking models before so maybe.....

holden maybe has an ace up their sleeve.
they obviously knew that by making the SV8 very similar in looks to the SS it will ultimately take sales away from the SS model. so they will need something to make the SS more enticing to the prospective buyer. as most have said here is the 7-8K differnce really worth singe zone climate. alloy pedal covers ect ect...

would be nice if holden squeeze the LS2 into the SS, im sure people will pay another 2-3 extra for that ontop of the normal SS price.

GM350

09-01-2005, 11:38 AM

Yep the SS will need the LS2 now!

markone2

09-01-2005, 11:49 AM

holden maybe has an ace up their sleeve.
they obviously knew that by making the SV8 very similar in looks to the SS it will ultimately take sales away from the SS model. so they will need something to make the SS more enticing to the prospective buyer. as most have said here is the 7-8K differnce really worth singe zone climate. alloy pedal covers ect ect...

would be nice if holden squeeze the LS2 into the SS, im sure people will pay another 2-3 extra for that ontop of the normal SS price.

Which beggars the question?.........what will HSV then have left up there sleeve

TURISMO_CV8

09-01-2005, 11:57 AM

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.

Gasser 350

NO WAY!!!! mate are you serious? Why the hell am I waiting till mid March for a Monaro with an LS1 in it???? (I'm assuming that not only will the SS have the LS2 but also the Monaro) ... This isnt good for those of us waiting for our orders to come through if only a few weeks or even months later LS2 Monaro's and SS's are running around. Even if I approached my dealer with this rumour he would deny it because ive placed the order. But I've been told my car will be getting built some time if Feb so ive still got time to chage it and hold out.

Gasser which dealer was this? I'd like to get this rumour confirmed too ... Ive sent u a PM is if u prefer not to say in main please reply to my PM mate.

This is beyond a joke if it is true :(

PepeLePew

09-01-2005, 12:18 PM

Given some of the contacts we have on this forum, I'd be surprised if the first mention we saw was from a discussion with a dealer....

Hopefully not the same dealer that thinks the LS1 is a DOHC engine....
;)

Nobby

09-01-2005, 01:13 PM

I dont mean to be out of line in saying this, but I think it's clear (to me at least) that Holden have WAY too many models in their Commodore derived lineup.

The lines that differentiate between models have not only blurred somewhat, but have been rubbed out in sections.

Thoughts? Comments?

KeenGolfer

09-01-2005, 01:52 PM

SLE355

09-01-2005, 01:56 PM

I can't see Holden changing engines at the moment. Has it ever been done before mid model? Not that I know of.

VTI Holden V8, VTII LS1 unless you mean before a series 2 came out?

KeenGolfer

09-01-2005, 02:01 PM

VTI Holden V8, VTII LS1 unless you mean before a series 2 came out?
Yep, that's what I meant. Wouldn't be until either a series change or new model.

fourstar82

09-01-2005, 02:09 PM

Hopefully not the same dealer that thinks the LS1 is a DOHC engine....
;)

*coughs* WTF? Thats just *insert obscenity here* stupid...

Goggles

09-01-2005, 02:30 PM

I can't see Holden changing engines at the moment. Has it ever been done before mid model? Not that I know of.

If they were going to do it they'd do it at new model release (VZ) or VE series 1 or 2. And HSV has only just got the LS2 and wasn't it supposed to be exclusive to HSV so there was more of a difference to the SS?

I would be flabbergasted if they released LS2 now in SS as earlier VZ owners would be mighty pissed and it's just not the way Holden do things. However, there could be a reason to do it - run out of stock pile of LS1's for example.

I'd be surprised - but excited if it happened :)

well we have the changes to the SV8, and minor equipment changes to the SS that go on sale in Feb....Holden have denied that this is a Series II.

something strange is going on me thinks......

however, for those who may be about to change jobs and cities, the prospect of an LS2 powered SS is mouthwatering....

Drewie

09-01-2005, 02:58 PM

If it is true, there might be some good run-out deals on '04 VZ SS's come Feb.
What with the new SV8 and if the '05 SS did get the LS2, the deals on an '04 VZ SS might be attractive, otherwise they might have trouble moving them.

mavss

09-01-2005, 03:43 PM

Do you guys remember a thread started a couple of weeks ago regarding the $2,000 dummy cheque a number of us got enticing us to purchase an SS before Feb 28?

This sort of offer is put up when there are significant changes coming up for a model and to clear floor stock because they're pretty confident that the changes will cause buyers to wait to purchase.

Even though there has been no mention by Holden of the LS2 making it into the VZ (although I do believe Motor stated it in one of their previous issues), it hasn't been ruled out either as far as I'm aware.

Oh, and lets see - Feb 28 is 6-8 weeks away :)

carneb

09-01-2005, 03:44 PM

I would think that they would be more likely to put the VZ Monaro engine (LS1 plus?) into the SS.

waz_ssls1

09-01-2005, 03:47 PM

The alignment of the SV6 & SV8 goes back to the days of the VR/VS SS being available in either a 6 or an 8 (I think, correct me if I am wrong)

Bridging the value for $$$ gap between the new spec SV8 & SS could be achieved through a) Monaro spec engine. b) Performance brakes standard. c) Leather standard. Also giving the SS a few Berlina options both interior & exterior e.g. 3 window dash cluster / berlina spec lights to further differentiate it from it's SV badged siblings. Also drop in the dash mounted gauges from the Monaro.

An LS2 in the SS would surely mean that the Monaro would get an upgrade as well. I would have thought a higher spec LS1 somewhere between the 260kw Monaro & 285kw HSV would have been on the cards before an LS2 went into the SS, that way HSV keep their exclusivity with the LS2 for a while longer.

Holden have issued the press release on these changes to the SV8 & SS, so why not drop the LS2 change in there? My guess would be that if it were true it would kill current sales leading up to the Feb release.

The extra monetary incentive that Holden has sent out to a lot of previous buyers for the purchase of a 04 SS sedan reeks of something going on here as well, this is over and above the standard end of year runouts that are normally offered..

I personally think that there has to be something extra besides standard climate control & a storage compartment coming for the SS.

mavss

09-01-2005, 03:50 PM

BRING ON THE LS2 MR MOONEY !!!

/gets excited easily :dance:

cutter bob

09-01-2005, 03:54 PM

Which beggars the question?.........what will HSV then have left up there sleeve

6.2 ls2...........................

but me thinks the ss will just get an upgrade to 285kw

Goggles

09-01-2005, 04:04 PM

I would think that they would be more likely to put the VZ Monaro engine (LS1 plus?) into the SS.

if they did that, would they not have to relocate the fuel tank to use the same exhaust system?

mavss

09-01-2005, 04:08 PM

if they did that, would they not have to relocate the fuel tank to use the same exhaust system?
The KW gains in the Monaro are due to the exhaust so as Goggles mentioned above, there is no way Holden would relocate the fuel tank for a minor series update. If anything, Holden might find other ways to find the extra KWs and as we all know, that is an extremely easy thing to do.

The Monaro in GTO guise is already being shipped out with the LS2 so I'd say it's almost inevitable the next Monaro series will have it also.

The fact that Monaro was only recently updated means it won't see an update till well after the SS. So if the SS gets the LS2 before the Monaro, it might hurt it's sales to an extent.

Chris52

09-01-2005, 04:14 PM

If they dont put an LS2 into post Feb 05 SS's then maybe the 285kw LS1.
This is becoming a speculation nightmare.

By the way if anyone is interested , I canned my order for my V6 M6 Crewman
( could'nt wait for April ) and ordered an SS Crewman - Helloooooo...LS1.
But the slight (microscopic) possibility of an LS2 Crewman would be :D

Cheers

Chris.

Red CV8 R

09-01-2005, 04:16 PM

I would be shocked if the SS got the LS2 now, however i agree i think there is something else in store for the SS, hopefully a better brake package is part of it!

carneb

09-01-2005, 04:16 PM

The KW gains in the Monaro are due to the exhaust so as Goggles mentioned above, there is no way Holden would relocate the fuel tank for a minor series update. If anything, Holden might find other ways to find the extra KWs and as we all know, that is an extremely easy thing to do.

I thought most of the extra power and torque in the new monaro came from the new camshaft. They may pop the new camshaft into the SS and re-tune it to give more power without using the monaro's twin outlet exhaust.

Goggles

09-01-2005, 04:20 PM

Chris52

09-01-2005, 04:35 PM

I guess in all of this, 250kW still sounds less than 260kW (which the XR8 has), so Holden may be planning to match or slightly beat this figure.

I'm not sure 285kW is realistic as that is too close to the 297 of the LS2 in the HSV Z Series.

Well maybe not 285 KW but pick a number above 260 for bragging rights over
the XR8 and definitely better brakes.

waz_ssls1

09-01-2005, 04:48 PM

Well maybe not 285 KW but pick a number above 260 for bragging rights over the XR8 and definitely better brakes.

275kw sounds good. Right between the XR8 & GT.

Chris52

09-01-2005, 04:56 PM

275kw sounds good. Right between the XR8 & GT.

Yep , sounds good ........and different since there's been so bloody many incarnations in the last few years.

Cheers
Chris.

Nawdy

09-01-2005, 07:26 PM

Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of agreement between Holden and HSV that only HSV can fit LS2's into production models for a certain amount of time prior to Holden fitting them into their cars?

What else are LS1's fitted into? Maybe the stockpile wasn't as big as they first thought.....

An LS2 fitted into an 05 SS - I'll take one thanks! :D

VS_SeV

09-01-2005, 08:52 PM

http://www.fast-autos.net/holden/sv82.jpg

Im such a thread hog :D

Febs

09-01-2005, 08:55 PM

RIP - M6 Sleeper Commodore
January, 2005

Aus8

09-01-2005, 08:58 PM

Hrmmm Is anyone thinking what I am thinking??? Upgrade the SS ute to a Phantom VZ SV8 M6, drop it on 19's and edit the bastard! Hmmm so tempting but then the LS2 is just around the corner in bread and butter holdens and there is no point getting another LS1 when its going to be old hat very soon.

Grrr I hate these tough decisions!!!

Cheers

Aus8!

VooDoo

09-01-2005, 09:13 PM

I was told by a Holden employee that the Caprice was also going LS2 in Feb/March. If they did the SS and Monaro's its not too much of a stretch to see the Caprice with it too. My feeling is the Series2 VZ will be announced for Feb/March. Aren't the HSV's based of the berlina? Maybe a few more models will get the LS2 as well (Calais?)

PepeLePew

09-01-2005, 09:25 PM

Speedy Gonzales

09-01-2005, 09:31 PM

I suspect LS2 across the board for VZ series 2, ala VT2.

BlueVZSS

09-01-2005, 10:06 PM

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.

Gasser 350

Tell me it isn't so :( I have just signed up for an 04 VZSS (Impulse Blue) and take delivery in about two weeks.

I heard that the Feb 05 version was only getting the climate control as standard for about an extra $K and that is already in mine so I didn't worry.

I thought that Holden were committed to the LS1 for all vehicles bar the HSV series until the VE in 2006. How are they going to sell the HSVs if this rumour is true?

Has anyone got any solid info on this?

Oztrack Tuning

09-01-2005, 10:45 PM

I believe it will take some time before LS2 will be fully tuneable. Maybe im wrong.

But i reckon just LS2 manifold an ls1 with a Fast Throttle body - get a good tune on a baby cam with some roller rockers and no Ls2 will be as good in fuel economy or performance.

Maybe once the Ls2 is able to be tuned it will be game over but only be because of the extra capacity - not any other reason and its only something like 250cc.

I would consider the new models more appealing if there was a major smoothness upgrade in the auto transmission and other pure driving benefits.

lowriding

10-01-2005, 01:23 AM

Sell your LS1's now boys before its too late and the word gets round!!!

Mmmmmmm.....

Things are looking worse and worse for my resale value, and interestingly its resale I bought the SS for in preference to an XR (among other things of course)....

Well assuming you bought VX2 SS instead of AU2 XR8 i think it's fair to say you made the right decision - AU falcons have terrible resale.

spiritfc

10-01-2005, 03:48 AM

How are they going to sell the HSVs if this rumour is true?

The same way they sold HSV's when they and Holden both had LS1's...

brchi17

10-01-2005, 11:46 AM

I was reading in Australian Muscle car (issue #17) that they believe that the Gen III in it's current form will not meet the new 2006 emissions regulations & hence they suggested that Holden might run-out so to speak the last of the Gen III in preparation for the Gen IV in VE.......

There was also talk that there was too much work in re-tooling the VZ to run the GTO (us spec) twin exhaust with the Gen III or IV for that matter & that they would stick with the Gen III for the VZ series.

Also, it suggest that the Monaro would be the last vehicle in the VE line up to be built & that there could be a mini drought in Australia for about 12-18 months as the various other models (ute, wagon, LWB) are released before it, but this wouldn't affect the us market where they would continue to run the current vehicle.

Back to topic......,

Speaking of the updated spec of the SV8, i must say (being a VY SV8 owner) I am concerned about the massive drop in re-sale value of my car, possibly meaning I hang onto it for a little longer than I intended.

If I was however looking for a new SV8, I'd have to be pretty happy with the update, but by the same token it is nice having a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Meaning that I am less obvious to the plod, as my vehicle looks no different to an exec or acclaim.

I wonder if the Police will now run the cheaper SV8 or stick with the SS in light of these changes ???

cheers. :)

GM350

10-01-2005, 01:21 PM

I reckon the VZ SS will get the LS2 and bigger brakes, and the VE being a completely new car will get new gearboxes.

Hot Carl

10-01-2005, 02:48 PM

there have been continued murmurs that the VZII SS will get a 275kw LS2. for the sake of my resale, i hope this is wrong, but if its right, the LS2 in those will be seriously detuned.

grimmy

10-01-2005, 03:25 PM

guys

from what i have heard from some mates at holden involved in design have told that there wont be a series 2 in VZ's range, The only reason why there would be is if the LS1 didnt meat the new standards which were going to be released, from what they have heard tho is that the ls1 will meat it, only Holden By Design cars (dealers cars, etc) will be getting the option to run the ls2 in the SS

but thats just what i have been hearing

Cheers
mark

Devoran

10-01-2005, 04:36 PM

BlueVZSS

10-01-2005, 06:06 PM

VX2VESS

11-01-2005, 07:42 AM

6 speed auto must be out later this year listed in here...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=34090

wonder if this motor will end up in the GTS ??

Danv8

11-01-2005, 07:56 AM

6 speed auto must be out later this year listed in here...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=34090

wonder if this motor will end up in the GTS ??

Doubt if caddy will let any other car would have this engine but the gearbox might come down here. I was talking to a yank mechanic and has told me the Northstars are not that great reliability they tend to leak too much and cost a fortune to repair.

Goggles

11-01-2005, 08:08 AM

6 speed auto must be out later this year listed in here...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=34090

wonder if this motor will end up in the GTS ??

I don't think so, as it appears that Holden and HSV are committed to using the Chev V8s.

V-Car

11-01-2005, 10:00 AM

I reckon there will be a series II VZ with LS2 and 6 speed auto, because there is still a bit over 12 months to run before the VE is released.
Holden have a history of slipping new engines/gearboxes into series II models so that there isnt such a huge complete change with a full new platform like VE.

TURISMO_CV8

11-01-2005, 02:27 PM

NO WAY!!!! mate are you serious? Why the hell am I waiting till mid March for a Monaro with an LS1 in it???? (I'm assuming that not only will the SS have the LS2 but also the Monaro) ... This isnt good for those of us waiting for our orders to come through if only a few weeks or even months later LS2 Monaro's and SS's are running around. Even if I approached my dealer with this rumour he would deny it because ive placed the order. But I've been told my car will be getting built some time if Feb so ive still got time to chage it and hold out.

Gasser which dealer was this? I'd like to get this rumour confirmed too ... Ive sent u a PM is if u prefer not to say in main please reply to my PM mate.

This is beyond a joke if it is true :(

Update on this ... i went and visited the dealer in question (sorry guys been asked not to name who in main and i will respect the forum members request) ... i spoke to a salesman and the sales manager and they categorically denied this will be happening ... in other words "no LS2 in a Holden VZ" ... when it came to the VE they just said "they dont know" ... so im assuming it will prob be in that .... although i didnt tell them where i got my tip from ... i did have a funny feeling that they might be lying to me ... (coz i mentioned the cash discount cheques on VZ SS's being mailed out to previous owners and they didnt know a thing about it ... but i know this to be true from many forum members stating they have received these in the mail) either this dealer was lying or absoloutely knew nothing about what was going on (and i doubt that being in business theyre that stupid) ..... anyway i wouldnt be buying a car from there if i was still in the market ... their stock looked very dirty (saw a black GTO covered in brown dust like dirt, pretty bad! ... if they couldnt be f@#$%# looking after their best stock what hope have they in looking after a customer?) ... anyway salesman got all flustered and went extremely red in the face ... even to the point where he was saying insane things like "it could be 5 years before an LS2 was in a Holden" ... now we all know thats not true .... then he switched tack and told me the magazines would have a better guess as to what was happening (can u believe that? not saying they dont, but so do dealers know) ... then he contradicted himself by saying the dealers know well in advanced about whats going on and if there was to be an LS2 SS in a couple of months they would of known about it last year ... he even directed me to contact Holden and see what they would say ... but yeh right what would they say? they want to sell their stock now not in a few months time .. ofcourse they will be ambiguous and not anounce to me what their future plans are ... anyway who am i, just a sinlge buyer ..... in one way i dont like the fact that Holden change models etc as quick as most ppl change their underware .... but in saying that they must be doing something right because theyre 2nd in sales in Aus and also exporting a lot of their vehicles .... just wish for the sake of resale values they wouldnt be so quick to update everything (the VZ Monaro has only been out since Sep 04 .... nearly 5 months only!!! the VZ ss 6 months, & theyre talking updates?) ........................ Point of the story: i wasted time chasing up this dealers claims (i felt the forum member was honest with me, cant see what he would gian by being dishonest, and i dont think he was) ....... and im none the wiser ... LS2 in a VZ Holden???? who knows, your guess is as good as mine ... but ive waited long enough ... so i'll just stick to my order.

Try keep it real folks ... lets keep this place a forum of information and facts rather than B/S which might be seeded from a sense of jealousy ... dont know if that makes sense .. but for those of u who understand it u know what i mean.

keep it real. :)

JohnS

11-01-2005, 03:39 PM

Holden have a history of slipping new engines/gearboxes into series II models so that there isnt such a huge complete change with a full new platform like VE.

Also a good way to test a new drivetrain so that any problems can be sorted out before the VE is released and not tarnish the VEs image. Hopefully the Alloytec will be 100% sorted by the time the VE is released.

The VE could always have a LS2+ the current LS2 uses the LS6 camshaft from the earlier 385hp LS6, by using the camshaft from the later 405hp LS6 there would be a 20hp gain, GM could increase the capacity to 6.2L as Crysler have just released a 6.1L for a 15hp gain, etc. etc. HSV could add extractors...

Will there be a VE Monaro?

Nawdy

11-01-2005, 06:39 PM

This has turned out to be a very interesting thread. Ford Forums have also found the subject interesting enough to discuss: http://206.225.84.45/showthread.php?t=537

Funnily enough, FF are also discussing the LS2 topic here: http://206.225.84.45/showthread.php?t=556, and also the prospect of the LS7 being introduced: http://206.225.84.45/showthread.php?t=877.

Not looking to start a Holden vs Ford flamefest, just adding another interesting aspect to this thread!!

V-Car

12-01-2005, 09:03 AM

Mellors GoAuto report that there will be a Series II VZ with Gen IV (LS2 or another version?) in August. :)

The last change to the current VT-based
Commodore before the all-new VE arrives in
the ﬁrst half of 2006, the VZ Series II update is
expected to bring minor cosmetic changes, more
equipment and the debut of Chev’s Gen IV V8.

Swordie

12-01-2005, 09:16 AM

I would of thought dealers would not know what is comming in the next model. Information on future models is usually a closely guarded secret. Dealers run a Franchise business and not as close as direct Holden employees.
It's in the dealers interested to sell now than later.

SSFreak

12-01-2005, 12:01 PM

The dealer I bought my last two Commodores from told me on at least a couple of occasions that they have no idea what is coming out until just before it happens, particularly in regards to specifications. He said the motoring magazines and other sources tend to know more about what is happening than they do.

Holden is very wary about the effect of new models on the sales of current vehicles so they tend to keep this information pretty close to their chest. This appears as though it could be true as I seemed to know a lot more about the VZ before it was released than the dealer did.

The bottom line is I wouldn't necessarily believe what the dealers say as they probably don't really know. That and the fact that they have a vested interested in getting rid of their current stock.

Zero5

12-01-2005, 04:19 PM

GoAuto still believes there will be a series II VZ and it will include the new LS2:

August:
The last change to the current, VT-based Commodore before the all-new VE arrives in the first half of 2006, the VZ Series II update is expected to bring minor cosmetic changes, more equipment and the debut of Chev's new Gen IV V8.

http://goauto.carsales.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F7DEC348B61DEA77CA256F86008193E1

Swordie

17-01-2005, 03:28 PM

If the LS2 does end up in the next Holden it put Fords XR8 and GT at quite a disadvantage.

Padina

19-01-2005, 09:36 PM

WEll Boys and Girls, I would like to inform you all that as of this morning I am on a waiting list for one of these 2005 'SS' Looking SV8's. I have left a deposit, the finance has been approved and now all I have to do is wait for the delivery. IT will be in RedHot, just like my S Pack atm, and I have also asked them to install the cup holders in the dash, as the current holders position is rediculous for manual transmission. It should be in my hands before the big Dyno day in March, so now I even more cannot wait for this day to come. :D

Oh and before you ask.. the mods will surelly start rolling in. Not straight away, as I first want to get used to the power of a LS1, and save a few bucks for the edit and stuff. First thing no doubt I will look into is the short shiffter, or maybe even a comple new system. What would you guys recommend?

Cheers... Very Happy man, looking so forward in driving away with this beauty. ;) :D :D :D :D

Zero5

20-01-2005, 07:31 AM

and I have also asked them to install the cup holders in the dash

Can you do that? Does that mean you will also get climate control?

Congrats on the new purchase..

Padina

20-01-2005, 09:15 AM

Can you do that? Does that mean you will also get climate control?

Congrats on the new purchase..

No mate, no climate control, but the cup holders apparently can still be fitted in the dash. Just need to replace the little strip. Cant wait to get it.. and thans mate. :D

Fs659717

20-01-2005, 09:26 AM

chops

20-01-2005, 09:54 AM

No mate, no climate control, but the cup holders apparently can still be fitted in the dash. Just need to replace the little strip. Cant wait to get it.. and thans mate. :D

Don't bother.
Find someone who has them and try them out, they're next to useless.
600ml Coke doesn't fit in them (surely the most purchased bottle shape on the market), and they're too flimsy to be reliable.

The driver's one sits just where my knee does, so the first time I used one, I just about broke it off getting in to the car.

Fortunately, it's really the only complaint I have with the finish of my Calais.

Padina

20-01-2005, 10:20 AM

Well done on your purchase of the 2005 SV8. Back in November 2004 I talked about the changes to the new SV8 which will make it a smart looking car.
I to would like an SV8, took my car for a trade in value (Jan 2005) but was disappointed as the car had devalued 5O% in 3 1/2 years ( car is like brand new condition 57,ooo klms)
May I be so bold to ask you what trade in value you were given???

Yeah I got close to nothing for my trade in as well mate. With over 80,000 ks on the clock, the true value I got was $16,500. So on top of this I just pay another $28,700 or so. But what I am still to do is ask the dealer if they dont mind me selling the car privately, and just paying them that $16,500 in cash. Hopefully they wont mind. :)

Don't bother.
Find someone who has them and try them out, they're next to useless.
600ml Coke doesn't fit in them (surely the most purchased bottle shape on the market), and they're too flimsy to be reliable.

The driver's one sits just where my knee does, so the first time I used one, I just about broke it off getting in to the car.

Fortunately, it's really the only complaint I have with the finish of my Calais.

Hmmmm the only reason why I wasnted them is because of the location of current ones. I havent tried to fit any drink into those when i took the SS for a test drive. hmm maybe I should of tried that. But I'll see how we go anyways, because I really dont like the standard ones that are there. And its true, i suppose the driver one could be in the way when its opened up, being 181 cm's my self, it might happen to me, but i'll make sure I always got it folded away before exiting the car.

Thanks for you input guys. :D

SASLS1

20-01-2005, 10:48 AM

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.

Gasser 350

I hate to disappoint, but I doubt that very much. I did a tour of HRT with a car club a few weeks ago, and they had a LS2 on the engine dyno, and the HSV guy running it said that, the LS2 will be exclusively for HSV, as they had to pull some strings themselves to get the LS2 into the HSV's so early.

Think about it, if they did do it, the resale values of the VYII SS would hit the floor as no one would won't them, just like when holden put the LS1 into the VT II, everyone that just bought a HSV would of been screaming all the way to the bank. You could buy a VTII exec with more power than the hsv 220i 5 litre.

SSFreak

20-01-2005, 12:45 PM

Think about it, if they did do it, the resale values of the VYII SS would hit the floor as no one would won't them, just like when holden put the LS1 into the VT II, everyone that just bought a HSV would of been screaming all the way to the bank. You could buy a VTII exec with more power than the hsv 220i 5 litre.

Well if they've done it before then who's to say they won't do it again. I don't understand your logic. The VYII HSVs had the LS1. What about the resale value of those?

mavss

20-01-2005, 09:58 PM

I hate to disappoint, but I doubt that very much. I did a tour of HRT with a car club a few weeks ago, and they had a LS2 on the engine dyno, and the HSV guy running it said that, the LS2 will be exclusively for HSV, as they had to pull some strings themselves to get the LS2 into the HSV's so early.
They probably pulled some strings with Holden to get it first but Holden would be in a position to put it into their cars whenever they felt the time was right.

Think about it, if they did do it, the resale values of the VYII SS would hit the floor as no one would won't them, just like when holden put the LS1 into the VT II, everyone that just bought a HSV would of been screaming all the way to the bank. You could buy a VTII exec with more power than the hsv 220i 5 litre.
You're assuming the Holden decision makers are logical in their thinking, which is true, some of the time ;)

seldo

20-01-2005, 10:34 PM

Don't bother.
Find someone who has them and try them out, they're next to useless.
600ml Coke doesn't fit in them (surely the most purchased bottle shape on the market), and they're too flimsy to be reliable.

The driver's one sits just where my knee does, so the first time I used one, I just about broke it off getting in to the car.

Fortunately, it's really the only complaint I have with the finish of my Calais.
I thought they were just there for gadget value - who eats or drinks in their car....?

Goggles

21-01-2005, 05:30 AM

I thought they were just there for gadget value - who eats or drinks in their car....?

I do, gotta keep up the fluids levels when you are driving the car hard.... :lol:

chops

21-01-2005, 07:35 AM

I thought they were just there for gadget value - who eats or drinks in their car....?

Eat - no, drink - you betcha! 6 hours from my place to the out laws, and every time I stop, she wants a smoke, so I stop as little as possible = drinks in car.

Padina

21-01-2005, 09:50 AM

I thought they were just there for gadget value - who eats or drinks in their car....?

Mate, when you got kids in the back and a missus in the front, those long drives give you no chioce. With food, well there is no food in the car, specially chips and snaks. But ofcourse if they spill the drink in the car, they will be thrown out the window with the drink :p :lol: :lol: :lol: well gatta keep em worried abit. lol ;)

Goggles

21-01-2005, 12:06 PM

From drive.com.au (talking about 2005 cars):

Holden
A revised Commodore SV8 (now with the SS bodykit and priced from $43,990 - an increase of $2000) arrives next month with the all-wheel-drive VZ Commodore range, with Holden's new V6 engine. In August, Holden is expected to update some of its Commodore V8 variants. It is expected that the SS and Monaro will get more power (possibly from the 6.0-litre V8 that is in the new HSV range) but Holden has not confirmed this.

V82xist

21-01-2005, 12:37 PM

I do, gotta keep up the fluids levels when you are driving the car hard.... :lol:
Haven't you gone with the 'cool suit' with the built in straw to the chilled poweraid. I get some funny looks in the traffic when I'm wearing my helmet but who cares :D

mavss

21-01-2005, 07:56 PM

From drive.com.au (talking about 2005 cars):

Holden
A revised ...... arrives next month with the all-wheel-drive VZ Commodore range
Interesting quote #1

In August, Holden is expected to update some of its Commodore V8 variants. It is expected that the SS and Monaro will get more power (possibly from the 6.0-litre V8 that is in the new HSV range) but Holden has not confirmed this.
Interesting quote #2

This is the first I've heard of these. Anyone else got some input?

Goggles

21-01-2005, 08:07 PM

Interesting quote #1

I had to reread the first quote again myself.....I think they are referring to the Adventra and Cross 6 Crewman as being the allwheel drive VZ Commodores.

As for Quote #2, I think most on this Forum recognise that with the changes made to SV8 in Feb, then the SS loses some of its distinctiveness over the SV8. A different engine with more power would make the SS special again.

V-Car

21-01-2005, 08:12 PM

The first quote i think just means that the current AWD range (Adventra etc.) is still based on the old VY II, and will be upgrded to VZ spec.
The second quote just says that Holden will eventually get the LS2, which was going to happen sooner or later, but probably with a detuned PCM for less power than 297kw's.

Goggles

21-01-2005, 08:54 PM

Haven't you gone with the 'cool suit' with the built in straw to the chilled poweraid. I get some funny looks in the traffic when I'm wearing my helmet but who cares :D

If I wore my helmet in my car, there would be a bulge in the roof - I am 6'5", and my head just misses the roof as it is!!

I also think my better half and the kids would disown me :lol:

now for Holden to put cup holders in the rear for the kids.

team illucid

21-01-2005, 10:11 PM

now for Holden to put cup holders in the rear for the kids.

why would you want cup holders in the BOOT ?? :lol:

Goggles

22-01-2005, 06:42 AM

why would you want cup holders in the BOOT ?? :lol:

well the boot is often used as threat for misbehaving kids :)

but seriously, with 3 kids in the back seat, the cup holders in the rear (in the centre fold down section) arew in the boot!!

HSVMAN

22-01-2005, 09:41 AM

I am HSVMAN's colleague, and I am telling you that the most likely changes would be:
VZ SS 275kw LS1 with Climate Air, Berlina guages and Leather. :nopity:
VZ SS 250kw LS1 as per announced specification Jan 2005

I'm 6'2" and don't have any problems with the new cup holders, and they do fit a 600ml Coke, you just need to take it out carefully.

Also look for 6.0 LS2 in VE Commodore, and 6.2 LS2 in VE HSV. As you know production will cease on the LS1 shortly, or may have already. Once there aren't any left, then you will just have to wait for VE to come out if you want a V8.

Holden

22-01-2005, 12:55 PM

Without spilling all the beans (and ruining the fun of this forum), a couple of significant things can be cleared up here ...

I was told on Friday, by a Holden dealer, that the SS will have the LS2, in about 6 weeks. He quoted 280KW. He said the car would have the same specs as the current SS, and only a very slight price increase.Someone has been led up the garden path. Please do not expect an SS with LS2 in six weeks (or anywhere resembling that). I know the old "a dealer told me" is the classic line but it's 100% wrong in this case.

... with the all-wheel-drive VZ Commodore range, with Holden's new V6 engine ...Vague choice of language from Drive ... this means we are releasing V6 versions of the AWD models already powered by V8 engines. Details in the next few weeks!

mavss

22-01-2005, 01:04 PM

THanks for clearing that up Mr Holden, and smashing my dreams in the process :*(

although I do take some heart in your quote :

Without spilling all the beans...

Holden

22-01-2005, 01:48 PM

Don't read anything into it ... it's a nice way of saying "not saying".

Goggles

22-01-2005, 02:01 PM

THanks for clearing that up Mr Holden, and smashing my dreams in the process :*(

although I do take some heart in your quote :

I think that means that the LS2 will find its way into the SS and Monaro after the 6 weeks :)

chops

22-01-2005, 02:45 PM

Without spilling all the beans (and ruining the fun of this forum), a couple of significant things can be cleared up here ...

It's information such as this which makes me really glad to have you guys as contributing members to this forum.

You're happy to dispel myths that are not true, without giving away secrets.

A big :thumbsup: from me.

Padina

24-01-2005, 01:20 PM

V-Car

24-01-2005, 01:54 PM

I just heard from my dealer that the car wont be ready for another good couple of months... WTF???? Apparently being a completely new desigh, all of the cars will have to go through another testing system before they are released to the public!? WTF??? I thought they do all this before the release date, which has been set for 1st of Feb. Any one know of anything like this? Please advise as I am completely unhappy. :mad: from couple weeks, its gone to couple months... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Not happy JAN!!!!.... :bash: :box:

I think the dealer is telling you porky's...the next completely new design isnt due for over twelve months with the VE.
The VT Series Eight (VZ II) should be in a few months. :)
Sounds like he got you to sign up by saying you'd have your new SV8 in a couple of weeks. :rolleyes:

HERCULES

25-01-2005, 12:12 AM

Heres something I found in the latest news of drive.

Quoted from Cars of 2005 - Drive.com.au

Holden

"A revised Commodore SV8 (now with the SS bodykit and priced from $43,990 - an increase of $2000) arrives next month with the all-wheel-drive VZ Commodore range, with Holden's new V6 engine. In August, Holden is expected to update some of its Commodore V8 variants. It is expected that the SS and Monaro will get more power (possibly from the 6.0-litre V8 that is in the new HSV range) but Holden has not confirmed this."

Link: http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=9107&vf=2&bg=1&pp=0

Padina

10-03-2005, 08:45 AM

Also the new VZ SV8 and SS come standard with 3.73:1 diff. in M6. Just had a couple people that werent sure, so I thought I'll post it here. The Holden web site confirms it as well.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/techdata?modelid=4009

The SV6 has preatty crappy ratios, even less than the 175kw Alloytec V6. :confused:

Sniper

11-03-2005, 09:25 AM

I know a lot of people on this forum are not going to like this, but I think that there might be a possibility that Holden are phasing out the SS name. First they replaced the S with SV6, which no one really complained about. Now they are upgrading the specifications of the SV8 closer to the SS.

As someone has already mentioned, Holden has too many models in the Commodore range.

Maybe a Holden Rep on this forum might like to shed some light on this.

This is only my opinion and thoughts, so don't get too upset just yet.

cashie

14-03-2005, 11:35 AM

HSVMAN

14-03-2005, 11:42 AM

I couldn't see Holden phase out the SS name, it fills a pricing/specification position that the SV8 will not fill.

You are correct. The SS has a market/brand of its own. Upgrades were made to SV8 because it wasnt selling and it still misses out on many of the SS refinements such as 18" alloys, SS Spoiler, side vents, projector headlights with black surround, climate air, sports steering wheel, leather trimmed s/wheel, g/lever & h/brake lever, sports seats, sports gauges, and a few more...
SV8 still appeals to lower budget performance buyers and the upgrade was also to lift it from SV6 market.

seldo

14-03-2005, 12:41 PM

[QUOTE=Sniper]I know a lot of people on this forum are not going to like this, but I think that there might be a possibility that Holden are phasing out the SS name. snip.....QUOTE]
Yeah...I heard McDonalds are also going to change their name to Smiths Burgers....

Sniper

14-03-2005, 03:44 PM

You are correct. The SS has a market/brand of its own. Upgrades were made to SV8 because it wasnt selling and it still misses out on many of the SS refinements such as 18" alloys, SS Spoiler, side vents, projector headlights with black surround, climate air, sports steering wheel, leather trimmed s/wheel, g/lever & h/brake lever, sports seats, sports gauges, and a few more...
SV8 still appeals to lower budget performance buyers and the upgrade was also to lift it from SV6 market.

Holden could still rebadge the SS with SV8, with all the SS bells and whistles.

With the changes to the SV8, I think it is going to eat into both the SV6 and SS market.

I have nothing against the SS brand. I just think it could be a possibility. A very small one, but still a possibility.