A COLDER CAI system

[RICHO]

Was cruising the web and found this.... :eek:

One very cold CAI system (http://www.01designsystem.com/diis_specs.html)

Hope the link works

Interesting concept..quality looks pretty good..but exactly how effective would it be??

And where the hell can I get dry ice???

[8throttlebodies]

this has been discussed. Do a search.. I think it was decided it wasnt really a good thing due to the gases being emitted as it melts.

8tb

[RICHO]

Apologies...

Am just so @#$*&# lazy......Will make better use of the search function in future..

[paulvdb]

Was cruising the web and found this.... :eek:

One very cold CAI system (http://www.01designsystem.com/diis_specs.html)

Hope the link works

Interesting concept..quality looks pretty good..but exactly how effective would it be??

And where the hell can I get dry ice???

The claims of a 40-50 degree drop sound a bit rich. How much of the warm air would come in contact with the few inches of frozen pipe? If the frozen section was longer, and there was some mechanism to ensure all air got near the walls of the pipe, I'd tend to agree with their claims.

[Fixel]

This unit seperates the dry ice from the intake air flow so CO2 from the dry ice won't be a problem.

The lack of surface area for the intake airflow to heat exchange, now that WILL be a problem.

[pagey]

The claims of a 40-50 degree drop sound a bit rich. .

I think you will find the temperatures that are mentioned in in Fahrenheit rather than celsius.

Also the C02 gas is not a problem in this instance is not a problem as the "cold air" is isolated from the gas. I.e intake air just passes through a cold section of pipe.

The concept itslef is sound...... but....

[Ryzz]

I think you will find the temperatures that are mentioned in in Fahrenheit rather than celsius.

Also the C02 gas is not a problem in this instance is not a problem as the "cold air" is isolated from the gas. I.e intake air just passes through a cold section of pipe.

The concept itslef is sound...... but....
I agree. Needs to be a longer section, however with a bit of luck considering the whole pipe is surrounded by Dry ice, it should be able to chill it a reasonable amount. Enough to see serious performance gains, maybe/maybe not.......Anyone planning on testing this kit?

[Fixel]

I think you will find the temperatures that are mentioned in in Fahrenheit rather than celsius.

Celsius and Fahrenheit are still on the same scale of measurment. A 50 degree drop in one scale will still be a 50 degree drop in the other which will be also b a 50 degree drop in degrees Kelvin :) .

[ssberlina]

Celsius and Fahrenheit are still on the same scale of measurment. A 50 degree drop in one scale will still be a 50 degree drop in the other which will be also b a 50 degree drop in degrees Kelvin :) .


Not quite right there Fixel. The comment about Kelvin and celcius is correct but fahrenheit, sorry I am afraid not.

The conversion is:

((deg C) x (9/5)) + 32 = deg F

so therefore

1 deg C = 33.8 deg F
2 deg C = 35.6 deg F
3 deg C = 37.4 deg F
etc

so you can see that they are definately not linear. A 50 deg drop in fahrenheit will be a 10 degree drop in Celcuis.

the only common ground is at -40 where -40 deg C = -40 deg F

I hope that helps.

[pagey]

Celsius and Fahrenheit are still on the same scale of measurment. A 50 degree drop in one scale will still be a 50 degree drop in the other which will be also b a 50 degree drop in degrees Kelvin :) .


But as a percentage of overall reduction of temperature.. wouldn't the % drop of 50 degrees measured in FH be less than a 50 degree drop measured in celsius?

I.e 100 fh = 37.7c 50 Fh drop = 27.7 c drop (in this instance)
50 fh = 10.0c

whereas

100 c = 212fh 50 c drop = 90 Fh drop (in this instance)
50 c = 122fh


The point of that scribble is - isn't there a big diiference Btween the two in this application? :hmmm:

[CarlFST60L]

Just use an OTRCAI, no need for that rubbish

[Ryzz]

Just use an OTRCAI, no need for that rubbishNice shot mate....what better way to sum it up. Leave the maths for the cacluating how many drinks you can buy at the pub with what little dosh the missus has left you :D

[Mongy]

Just use an OTRCAI, no need for that rubbish
Thank you. No dry ice to worry about and a gain of 3 tenths of a second and 3 mph on the 1/4, plus better drivability all the time without the hassle.

[pagey]

I'm sorry.. I will put the slide rule & Abacus away now.. back to dungeons & dragons :nyuk:

[ssberlina]

I'm sorry.. I will put the slide rule & Abacus away now.. back to dungeons & dragons :nyuk:

Gee, a slide rule and an Abacus thats advanced!!! I was using my fingers and toes :D

Given the rate of air flow the cooling effect would be minimal with the above dry ice arangement as there wouldnt be suffient time for the heat transfer given that the only cold surface area is the pipe itself. If it had some sort of internal fins that would be diferent but any benefit may be canceled by the pressure drop through the pipe section.

Let me throw another one at you though.

How about thermally insulating the bottom of the OTRCAI to prevent radiator heating the intake and cooling the fuel rails or fule line with ice?


Food for thought

[Dacious]

Trade off would be added weight of equipment (and where you don't want it) and the fact that very cold air (if this system did work) doesn't mix with fuel as well, leading to pockets of rich and lean mixture in the combustion chamber. Not really what you want, anymore than you want hot, less dense air. Why European cars used to come with solenoid-controlled stovepipes from the manifold to the air filter housing, to let warm air in when it was cold.

Tha major factor against it is air is an insulator - why they use layers of light clothing in hot climates, to trap air which insulates the body. A slow-moving cold layer of air would likely form next to the pipe (boundary layer), with the other air rushing past into the intake tracts not exchanging much heat at all, if I remember my old fluid dynamics from preliminary engineering right. The air would only be in contact with the entire intake tract from airfilter to intake port for fractions of a second.

The major selling feature of it is it probably keeps the IAT sensor cold, which means advance isn't pulled by the ECU when it is hot outside!

[markone2]

How about thermally insulating the bottom of the OTRCAI to prevent radiator heating the intake and cooling the fuel rails or fule line with ice?


Food for thought



You been peeking under ma bonnet eh :stick:................ ;) at least we some advancement now.......think fuel

[CarlFST60L]

If you wanna make you car even more effiectent remove the rubber seal at the top rear of the engine bay, my manifold is only just warm after 6 hard laps around wakefeild...

The other advantage is far reduced drag as the air freely flows threw your engine bay...

Do i have to say remove the turtle shell?

I gotta stop giving away our secrets ;)

[paulvdb]

hmm.. some interesting ideas. Basically the requirement then is to minimise heat soak from the engine bay into the CAI - obviously with better shielding. If you can guarantee that the air going into the engine is ambient that's not a bad effort so is there a good way to blanket the whole intake to keep engine bay heat out?

[markone2]

hmm.. some interesting ideas. Basically the requirement then is to minimise heat soak from the engine bay into the CAI - obviously with better shielding. If you can guarantee that the air going into the engine is ambient that's not a bad effort so is there a good way to blanket the whole intake to keep engine bay heat out?


otrcai will take care of the majority of heat soak from the engine once your mobile,especially when combined with WORKEDSV8's suggestion

[Fixel]

Not quite right there Fixel. The comment about Kelvin and celcius is correct but fahrenheit, sorry I am afraid not.

The conversion is:

((deg C) x (9/5)) + 32 = deg F

so therefore

1 deg C = 33.8 deg F
2 deg C = 35.6 deg F
3 deg C = 37.4 deg F
etc

so you can see that they are definately not linear. A 50 deg drop in fahrenheit will be a 10 degree drop in Celcuis.

the only common ground is at -40 where -40 deg C = -40 deg F

I hope that helps.

Oopsie, there you go, all this time I thought they were scaled the same.

You know, I had a feeling I could have been wrong as I typed my reply, goes to show that a life time's misconception can cloud one's judgment. :)

[Starky]

just another few things, wouldnt there be a problem with the iner pipe freezing over (if the vehicle was not goin)??? therfore stopping air flow, another thing would be is that the pipe would have to be made of a thick enough metal so that the temp differences wouldnt crack the tubing.

also one would have to pull out the entire unit to drain the L/nitrogen wen not in use, and with regard to the size of the storage tank id say it wouldnt last long

l8r