Monaro, Statesman, Utes to be built in USA??

[Brendan24688]

http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?threadid=10314

according to this holden might be importing their "local" cars from now on ay?? :confused:

Holden's dream of building cars in the US
By Joshua Dowling, Motoring Editor in Detroit
January 12, 2005


The home-grown Holden ute and other iconic Australian cars such as the Monaro and Statesman could be built in the US and imported into Australia under a plan being considered by General Motors.

The establishment of the free trade agreement between Australia and the US has "moved the goalposts dramatically" on where Holden, General Motors' Australian outpost, may build some of its cars from as early as 2007.

The ute has been locally designed and built since the FJ Holden was introduced more than 50 years ago. The Monaro was resurrected after a team of young Melbourne designers created a two-door Commodore at their weekends. Now the Americans want to manufacture both cars, as well as Holden's luxury sedan, for US customers.

During his visit to the North American International Auto Show, Holden chairman and managing director, Denny Mooney, met executives from General Motors about production of the models.

One option is to assemble the Monaro, ute and Statesman in the US where they would be sold under General Motors brands. The Monaro would be sold as the Pontiac GTO, the ute as the Chevrolet El Camino and the Statesman as a luxury Buick. About 17 million new vehicles are sold in the US annually compared to 960,000 in Australia last year.

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AdvertisementMr Mooney is concerned that Holden's Adelaide factory is building too many models. The Elizabeth factory operates 24 hours a day and produces one of the most diverse range of cars in the world - up to 14 models. Ford Australia's factory produces only six vehicle types, while local Toyota and Mitsubishi factories each produce three.

"Life would be a lot easier if we could take some complexity out of the factory," Mr Mooney told the Herald in Detroit. However, he said such a move would not lead to a loss of jobs, with the restructure being used to build more vehicles of the reduced range. The output would include a "significant number" for export, Mr Mooney said. Holden exports about 50,000 cars a year.

"There is no doubt there's too much model proliferation at Elizabeth ..." Mr Mooney said.

"There has to be some rationalisation, which would allow us to make more examples of fewer models, which would allow us to reduce manufacturing costs and improve quality. For instance, you have to ask about the [Monaro]; 3000 are sold in Australia a year and they could sell 20,000 to 25,000 in the US - but the jury's still out on this one. No plant has been approved yet."

The next-generation Commodore, due out in March next year, is set to be built in two overseas factories as well as Australia but the company is yet to confirm the location of the factories.

[dominik]

That article was mentioned here (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=33989&page=4). Interesting discussion.

[Road Warrior]

[url]
The next-generation Commodore, due out in March next year

March next year huh. Doesnt leave much room for a VZII does it? Who wants to take bets on where the two overseas factories will be. I say the States and Germany.

[crYnOid]

March next year huh. Doesnt leave much room for a VZII does it? Who wants to take bets on where the two overseas factories will be. I say the States and Germany.

definately one in the states and one in canada. china are a possibility in the future as well as maybe mexico or maybe a line in europe.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

I really hope not!!

Bloody hell, those Americans always want to take control over everything.
We're already loosing our Monaro to the yanks for the next GTO model, now they want the utes and the statesman too?
What would they know about what the Australian market wants?
Probably more stupid hood scoops and fugly bodykits.

If thats the case, I'm jumping ship. Atleast Ford here still focus's on the Aussie market and not what they can do for overseas buyers.

We get to brag about how the Pontiac GTO is really ours. Our design, our parts (aside the LS1/2), our production, our car for our country.
If we lose our icons we lose our place on the automotive map.

Well thats my rant.

[Kowalski]

I really hope not!!

Bloody hell, those Americans always want to take control over everything.
We're already loosing our Monaro to the yanks for the next GTO model, now they want the utes and the statesman too?
What would they know about what the Australian market wants?
Probably more stupid hood scoops and fugly bodykits.

If thats the case, I'm jumping ship. Atleast Ford here still focus's on the Aussie market and not what they can do for overseas buyers.

We get to brag about how the Pontiac GTO is really ours. Our design, our parts (aside the LS1/2), our production, our car for our country.
If we lose our icons we lose our place on the automotive map.

Well thats my rant.


Well Said!

[PJK]

"Life would be a lot easier if we could take some complexity out of the factory," Mr Mooney told the Herald in Detroit...

..."There is no doubt there's too much model proliferation at Elizabeth ..." Mr Mooney said.

"There has to be some rationalisation, which would allow us to make more examples of fewer models, which would allow us to reduce manufacturing costs and improve quality. For instance, you have to ask about the [Monaro]; 3000 are sold in Australia a year and they could sell 20,000 to 25,000 in the US - but the jury's still out on this one. No plant has been approved yet."

The ability of Holden to produce so many different vehicles so quickly is one of the main reasons that they have been so successful. They can produce what the market wants.

If they have to reduce complexity at the factory then get rid of the Adventra which, although its a great car, has been an almighty flop saleswise and replace it with one of the million different SUV's available in the US - oops I forgot - can't do that , Stupid Yanks don't make anything in Right hand drive :rolleyes:


Bloody hell, those Americans always want to take control over everything.
We're already loosing our Monaro to the yanks for the next GTO model, now they want the utes and the statesman too?
What would they know about what the Australian market wants?
Probably more stupid hood scoops and fugly bodykits.
Couldn't agree more. If they want to sell the Pontiac GTO as a Monaro then they should forget about it. They should just give us the Corvette instead:D

I hope for Holden's sake that Mooney doesn't undo all the hard work Hannenburger and his team put in to make Holden the success that it is.

[Danv8]

I really hope not!!

Bloody hell, those Americans always want to take control over everything.
We're already loosing our Monaro to the yanks for the next GTO model, now they want the utes and the statesman too?
What would they know about what the Australian market wants?
Probably more stupid hood scoops and fugly bodykits.

If thats the case, I'm jumping ship. Atleast Ford here still focus's on the Aussie market and not what they can do for overseas buyers.

We get to brag about how the Pontiac GTO is really ours. Our design, our parts (aside the LS1/2), our production, our car for our country.
If we lose our icons we lose our place on the automotive map.

Well thats my rant.


Farrrrrken oath!

[LSX-438]

this could be the thin end of the wedge, i dont like the prospect. Some of our holdens are a curiosity to the sepos at the moment, but if Holden want to crack their market, and they start making them there, and they are successful, its the beginning of the end. don't do it holden, keep your autonomy, and screw the economics.

[mavss]

A lot of companies with lease plans have a clause that stipulates that the chosen car must be locally built.

If it is true about these cars being made overseas, it would rule them out.

[Mongy]

This will be interesting. Personally I cannot see the Australian consumers reacting very well to the prospect. I own two new Holden’s, admittedly one is an import (Astra) but I am also proud of the fact I have a locally built vehicle as well. If I had to buy imports for both my wife and myself I would probably rethink my next purchase.

[dominik]

The establishment of the free trade agreement between Australia and the US has "moved the goalposts dramatically" on where Holden, General Motors' Australian outpost, may build some of its cars from as early as 2007.How about this for free trade...

They get the Monaro and we get the new Corvette Z06. Clean swap. Sounds fair to me.

[TriShield]

Hold on there folks, they aren't going to stop assembling the cars in Australia except for the Monaro. In fact all of these cars will still be Australian engineered, it's just that the variations for the US market will be assembled here to satisfy US demand.

I highly doubt production of the Ute and Statesman in Australia will totally halt. Remember, the US new car market is the world's largest, and Holden doesn't have the capacity to make enough cars for home, for the US, and export market. GM also has a lot of underutilized plants here that could use some new work.

Many of GM and Chrysler's new models were engineered for both left and right hand drive, so HSV selling the new Corvette in Australia could be feasible.

[PepeLePew]

Well that FTA is starting to be an ass REAL QUICKLY....

Lets just hope the design bias doesnt head towards U.S. wants either or we might see GTO versions of everything (if you get my point).....

[SSbaby]

Many of GM and Chrysler's new models were engineered for both left and right hand drive, so HSV selling the new Corvette in Australia could be feasible.

Except the C6 isn't one of those vehicles. :(

[IIV8II]

March next year huh. Doesnt leave much room for a VZII does it? Who wants to take bets on where the two overseas factories will be. I say the States and Germany.

Nope. US and China.

And as far as I know, C6 is L- and R-hand 'compatible' just like the VT was when it was designed

[Knight Phlier]

Yes and anything I read from JOSHUA DOWNLING I have complete skepticism over. He is the moron that wrote off the new Alloytech and VZ as being complete crap in the Drive articles. He never writes anything positive about Holden as his 'expectations' are never met - IMO he is out to burn Holdens reputation.

By "Speculating" as he has done on the Statesman and the Ute, he has done it again!

[JohnS]

Nope. US and China.


US for sure and china or korea. I have met GMH engineers at the Shanghai Shangri-la bar last year and they told me that they were working on the the release of the statements into the chinese and korean markets are GMs flagship and the cars would be built in Asia.

[vxcalaiszzz]

If Holdens can be built overseas cheaper and better quality all for it. Just don't let the yanks get control of the styling :spew: . People seem to be just as passionate to the brand so long as the quality/styling/engineering is retained - such as german marques being built anywhere except Germany and Japanese marques made anywhere except Japan.

Sorry to the local workers who will lose out as the victims of Australia's economic success - we are just becoming too affluent as a nation to make stuff here.

[Red CV8 R]

Great, we get a bunch of ugly yank cars and they take all our good ones away and Americanise them. Turf Mooney and get someone else who understands our market better! Australians like more euro styled cars with rwd, powerful engines and alot of space. It is very clear that Americans want something completely different!

I am not looking foward to the concesions Holden will make for GM, looks like what started with the Monaro is going further.

There is only one car built in America that I would want and that is the Corvette. Ford Australia must be rubbing their hands togeather! I have a very bad feeling about this!

[IIV8II]

US for sure and china or korea. I have met GMH engineers at the Shanghai Shangri-la bar last year and they told me that they were working on the the release of the statements into the chinese and korean markets are GMs flagship and the cars would be built in Asia.

They are made here for now, badged as Buick Royaum, but proabably China/Korea as well as Australia in future

[RICHO]

Hell...

Let the yanks build all base model commodores in the US and all the Statesmans in China and Elizabeth can simply pump out SV6, SV8, SS and Monaro (oh and Maybe Calais).....

Now that's a factory i could work at!!

But seriously, this was always bound to happen. For many years Holden were and still are the RWD experts in the GM world. But such expertise is very transportable!! Key engineers can very easily relocate to the U.S. and now that the U.S. market is turning back to RWD cars, that's where they'll be heading.

Take market size into account and it makes more sense. There are single plants in the U.S. making 1 or 2 model variants that pump out 250,000 cars per year. Now THAT gives huge economies of scale. At Elizabeth, your talking maybe 120,000 if it's fully geared up, but your also talking, Exec, Acclaim, Berlina, Calais, SV6, SV8, SS, Monaro, Utes, crewman, adventra, Statesman all up probably 15+ different model variants!! That's a lot of line changes a lot of complexity a lot of incremental cost and a lot less efficiency.

Add to that the fact that it is relatively expensive to produce a car here. I think in order of cost it's Germany, Belgium, Australia then the US (US purely because of scale their avge labour cost per head is higher) and it's clear that any model that has potential U.S. demand greater than Australias will be cheaper to produce there than here.

As passionate as we are about our domestic products and as much as went to see a growing, evolving domestic industry, unfortunately both GM and Ford see the world differently. The see it in terms of cost, of efficiency, profit maximisation and shareholder returns. And in the longer term that makes me truly fearfull for our domestic industry as a whole. I can see a day where all cars are imported into this country. And I don't think that day is all that far off!! It's a nightmare I try not to think about!!!

[Airzoom]

I suppose if that happened I'd have to call my ute a pick-up. :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Somehow I don't think this idea would go over too well with the average Aussie buyer. Many people buy Australian cars precisely because they are made here - or at the very least, are proud of that fact.

Start telling people that their new Statesman, Monaro or Ute was made in Ohio (or wherever) and there's just that little bit less of an emotional connection - and next thing you know, they're in some other brand instead.

Holden would possibly be better served by developing the cars here, making them here, and GM in the US making models based on Holden designs for their domestic market.

[smoke]

Ah well, It was good while it lasted! :( More yanks buy/ like our cars, holden couldnt give a stuff if a few aussies are p..off . We have lost our motoring heritage. Gone the way of our good old vegemite!!!! :bash:

[LSX-438]

Ah well, It was good while it lasted! :( More yanks buy/ like our cars, holden couldnt give a stuff if a few aussies are p..off . We have lost our motoring heritage. Gone the way of our good old vegemite!!!! :bash:

mate it hasnt happened yet!! but dont you love 'globalisation' (not)

[JohnS]

but dont you love 'globalisation' (not)

I like the part where we get the LS1 & LS2 but not the part where holden may lose control over design of the commodore.

[smoke]

I like the part where we get the LS1 & LS2 but not the part where holden may lose control over design of the commodore.

TRUE! To start with we replaced our aussie V8 with the LS1, was that purely economics or something wrong with the 308, i dont know. Maybe it started out as a way to make a few extra million, but now we are losing our motoring autonomy!!!! Started with the drive train, now its the whole car platform. :(

[Drewie]

I remember reading in The Herald Sun some time last year how big the USA market is, to put it into perspective, we sold close to 1 million cars here in 2004 and the USA sold I think around 17 to 18 million, so our total annual sales for 2004 would have been sold in around 21 days over there. So no wonder they don't worry too much about us.

[Knight Phlier]

The American Market auto market is also fiercy competitive - Car companies such as GM don't make as much profit per unit in the US as they do in Aus. But on a whole the company would make a lot more as they sell a lot more cars !

[TriShield]

Holden would possibly be better served by developing the cars here, making them here, and GM in the US making models based on Holden designs for their domestic market.

That is what is going to end up happening.

[TriShield]

If Holdens can be built overseas cheaper and better quality all for it. Just don't let the yanks get control of the styling :spew:

I remember the majority of you drooling over the Ram Air 6 concept GTO, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Monaro and GTO resemble it.

How awful!

[PepeLePew]

I remember the majority of you drooling over the Ram Air 6 concept GTO, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Monaro and GTO resemble it.

How awful!

TriShield I wouldnt take that personally. Its just a reflection of the fact no one likes what was done to the GTO. We wanted it to be a success, and while the Monaro design doesnt really suit your market, what was done didnt exactly make it a highly sellable item.

In a more general sense, I think we can all agree that cars designed for the U.S. market in reverse often arent seen as attractive here. I spend quite a bit of time over there and very little looks good in my eyes, you guys just have different tastes.

If the prediction of a Ram Air look came true with a couple of changes, I think we'd all be happy tho.... :)

[holden_fan]

well the monaro has been confirmed for production in america but the others are staying in aussie. why would holden spend millions of $$$ on upgrading its factories just so america can build our cars???? sum 1 came up with it its called MEDIA EXPLOSION some one herd monaro made in america and instantly came up with this stupid lie.

[IIV8II]

Confirmed, eh? I don't remember that announcement being made...

[TriShield]

TriShield I wouldnt take that personally. Its just a reflection of the fact no one likes what was done to the GTO. We wanted it to be a success, and while the Monaro design doesnt really suit your market, what was done didnt exactly make it a highly sellable item.


There was nothing wrong with the design of it. The ultra smooth Skyline/G35 coupe sells in droves here for about the same price. The trouble is nobody thinks a GTO should look like that. It was all in a name I'm afraid.

The tastes aren't really that different, everyone over here drools over Utes, VY-VZ Commodores and BA Falcons and wishes GM and Ford would sell them here, myself included.

I'd take a Ute over a Monaro any day if I had the choice.