Head studs removal

[daza]

HI
This may be in the wrong forum but I was looking for ideas. I was helping my father with a problem on one of his old cars and we found that the head gasket was leaking on firing in 2 cylinders. We removed the head to inspect and found about a .006" depression around the valve side of the block in some areas. Normally we would just pull out the motor and get the thing decked, the head is retained with 40 odd 9/16" AF head studs that go down into the water jacket. :eek: 50 years of rust, fine threads these wont come out easy. I was thinking that perhaps there was a way the head gasket could be sealed up without going to this trouble? The gasket is a dead soft copper sheet that we installed with Hylomar but after about 60 miles it blew out. Some one sujested silverfrost on the gasket in the suspect areas to try and take up the gap. I was thinking perhaps a lead wipe on the suspect areas? Any one got ideas/experience with this sort of problem. The motor is an iron head side valve straight 8.
Thanks

[mmciau]

Aluminium paint has been used to coat soft copper gaskets - is the gasket full copper or with "asbestos" inserts?

6 thou is a fair bit of distortion though

Mike

[Drewie]

Only a thought but would running 2 head gaskets help at all, I realise it would lower the compression ratio a tad, but might have a bit more 'squish' and take up the slack.

[seldo]

Another problem is because of its age. Even if you do get the studs out and deck the block, why has the face collapsed there?? Could be because of internal corrosion at that point and facing the block may only make it weaker... It'd solve a lot of problems if you could build it somehow. I know it sounds bodgy, but I have heard of successful use of epoxy eg araldite used in these situations... I hate to suggest it because it does sound bodgy, but I've seen it used ..

[mmciau]

daza,
You mention an L8 sidewacker - wouldn't be a Packard L8 by chance?

Mike

[seldo]

daza,
You mention an L8 sidewacker - wouldn't be a Packard L8 by chance?

Mike
Hehe, I thought exactly the same thing. My next door neighbour when I was a kid had 2 of them - I used to think they were the bee's knees..

[VX2VESS]

take it out, remove the studs if they break drill out and retap if required.

the machine shop should be able to remove them and repair any block thread damage in doing so..

as mentioned need to find the cause of colapse, if rusted thin it will probably just get worse, and just machining the deck make it worse still. i guess could be able to repair be rewelding more body to the weak colapsed section then machining it flat. but a good shop may have other proven ways they have tried. never come across this problem myself

[daza]

Guessed correctly Mike and seldo it's a Packard 28? or 327. Its a clipper 53-54 I think. I sourced a supposed compsite gasket from the US when it arrives and we open it up it's a copper unit :mad: I could have got these locally. The flame deck around the exhaust valve gets a pounding and I believe this is why it may have depressed the surface. I think we will try at a last resort a couple of gaskets in copper with a little lead / silver solider in between the gaskets in the dodgy areas. I am going to do some practice tonight to see how well I can apply it. If it was anywhere else on the cylinder it could be fixed with epoxy but it would be the hottest spot on the on the head/block I believe. I borrowed an ultrasonic tester from work and found it to be about 7mm thick taking about 3 off for rust in the suspect area water jacket. I think if it's coming out i'll weld these areas with nickel then re machine it. I'll just cut the studs off and drill them out when the block is on the mill table also as I am to slack to do it in the car.
Thanks for the ideas

[seldo]

Sounds as if you have all the skill and equipment anyway without asking us mugs. If you have all the gear i'd probably also do as you suggest. :cheers:

[mmciau]

Yes, take care and do it properly - I always reckon the Packard is the most spectacular car of the late 20's and certainly the early 30s.

They had a "regal" appearance about them - just to see them rolling through in the Bay to Birdwood held here annually in SA.

So if you can resurrect that block, great achievement.

BTW, there is a Packard resting in the shed here in SA - belongs to a company situated in Somerton Park, SA - reckon it would be an early 30s car - it's all there, just very tired!

Mike

[VKCommo]

Chemi-Weld... Used to rebuild many a head.

[HOWQUICK]

metal spray it if the area isn't too big.

[Drewie]

Chemi-Weld... Used to rebuild many a head.

Good stuff that Chemi-weld, I remember I had a company VL many years ago and it either did a head gasket or cracked the head, anyway had a sump full of water and the radiator was full of oil, it was due for replacement and we were looking at like $1500 odd to fix it, our local mechanic dumped the oil and water put in new stuff added Chemi-weld to the radiator and I drove it for a good 6 months while waiting for the new car, never used a drop of water and ran like a charm, the mechanic said he had a customer that had had it in his VL for several years and it was still running fine. It is colourless, tastless no way of knowing if it is present in a used car.

[clixanup]

It is ... tastless no way of knowing if it is present in a used car.

Now there's a newie. Do you regularly taste radiator water? :lol:

[Drewie]

I was merely pointing out that there is no way that it's precence can be determined in a used car, the exact words my mechanic said to me. He used the terms tastless, colourless etc.
So you could buy a used car and after maybe the first coolant change and you dump the chemi-weld you could find yourself with a problem car.
Cars like VL's and EA Falcons which are prone to head gasket problems.

[daza]

Chemiweld works really well on any fluid pressure leaks but will rarely seal a compression leak in my experience. Did a static and dynamic pressure tests the dynamic pointed to the cylinders that had the dodgy deck :( The build up on the gaskets with lead/silver solider didnt work to well but a friend of mine who does electro plating is getting me some copper in solution that should be able to build up the gasket enough. I hope
Cheers