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NORTY8
03-02-2005, 09:53 AM
Good on you Ford, congrats on winning the award. Now you can safely transport all the customers who break down due to head gasket and auto trans failure!!!

Should have built a bus!!!!! :lol: :D :) ;) :p :bash:

clixanup
03-02-2005, 10:01 AM
Should have built a bus!!!!!

Didn't they??

NORTY8
03-02-2005, 10:24 AM
Didn't they??

sorry a big huge passenger bus, not the little one they built! ;)

Goggles
03-02-2005, 10:59 AM
a senior exec got a territory (probably a 2wd version), and it recently dropped one of its driveshafts as the circlip holding the driveshaft in place broke.

she probably ended up driving around in circles :lol:

RICHO
03-02-2005, 11:00 AM
Ah Yes...

But it is a bus that people are actually buying in quite large numbers...

Which would make the Adventra what??

Would have thought a local winning would be a good thing for most people especially here, because the next gen Commodore should give the award one hell of a shake next year. And if it wins, I'll be giving Holden a heap load of credit!!

PepeLePew
03-02-2005, 11:08 AM
Please guys, lets take care not to get into another Territory vs Adventra, Ford vs Holden discussion :)

A deserved win.

Aus8
03-02-2005, 11:59 AM
A great win! Always proud to see a fellow Aussie win as opposed to Euro/Jap. Definitely a well deserved win and they are obviously selling well. 2000+ per month.

Cheers

Aus8

clixanup
03-02-2005, 01:34 PM
But it is a bus that people are actually buying in quite large numbers...

All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't buy one, because with the numbers they're selling you won't be able to give one away in 3 to 5 years' time...

As for Wheels COTY, every new-generation Commodore has won it. VB, VN, VR, VT all won it, even though VR wasn't strictly an all-new car. I'll eat my hat if VE doesn't win it. :D

As a side note, surely people can't take Wheels COTY seriously after it was given to the JB Camira??? :p

flappist
03-02-2005, 01:41 PM
P76 won COTY once too.

6 cyl Territory is a dud, Holden will never copy it with a V6 Adventra.....
:box:

Smitty
03-02-2005, 02:08 PM
P76 won COTY once too.

6 cyl Territory is a dud, Holden will never copy it with a V6 Adventra.....
:box:

to be released soon this year..... a V6 Adventra
(source ..GoAuto news)
what was that you were saying??? :lol:

vyss2004
03-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Did the territory win car of the year?

End of the year i heard ford are bringing out the territory TURBO.

clixanup
03-02-2005, 02:15 PM
End of the year i heard ford are bringing out the territory TURBO.

Great. Just what we need. School mums with access to turbos. :rolleyes: Like school mums aren't dangerous enough?

PepeLePew
03-02-2005, 02:26 PM
Good Lord, why does the Territory polarize people so?

When terms such as dud are used, it always pays for a little accompanying fact to make people take the statement seriously.

My only observation driving a Territory was the suspension was surprisingly harsh... (that was a TX 4WD)

the mooch
03-02-2005, 03:26 PM
As for Wheels COTY, every new-generation Commodore has won it. VB, VN, VR, VT all won it, even though VR wasn't strictly an all-new car. I'll eat my hat if VE doesn't win it. :D

As a side note, surely people can't take Wheels COTY seriously after it was given to the JB Camira??? :p
I would hold the VN in the same company as the JB :lol: . And yes I agree with you on the worth of wheels COTY. The criteria doesn't allow for current model cars the have been on sale for more than a year to compete, which IMHO is wrong. Just because the field of cars tested are new cars with advances in design, doesn't mean they are always the best (a few examples already mentioned). And no, i'm not soapboxing over the omission of the VZ. That debates already been had, so please don't flame me over it!
There, now that I got that off my chest, congrats to Ford but lets just sit back and see how history will judge Territory.

Smitty
03-02-2005, 03:28 PM
Good Lord, why does the Territory polarize people so?


ummmm
maybe coz it adds to the total of 4WD s*!tboxes on our roads
steered by blond mums (who can't drive or park) :lol: :lol:

clixanup
03-02-2005, 04:07 PM
ummmm
maybe coz it adds to the total of 4WD s*!tboxes on our roads
steered by blond mums (who can't drive or park) :lol: :lol:

Eloquently put.

IIV8II
03-02-2005, 04:13 PM
P76 won COTY once too.

6 cyl Territory is a dud, Holden will never copy it with a V6 Adventra.....
:box:

The alloytec V6 Adventra was launched today in fact... would you like me to send you the pics? :p

SteveK
03-02-2005, 04:16 PM
Good Lord, why does the Territory polarize people so?

I suppose it comes down to what it was meant to be but ended up being. I was expecting an AWD ford station-wagon of some sort. Anytime I drive near one I think 4WD in the vein of Jeep, Land cruiser etc.

With the Adventra though, it is an AWD commodore wagon of sorts with a higher ride stance to it.

But then again, when I think of AWD wagons I think of Subaru Outback and AWD in general I think of the entire Subaru range and the Audi Quattros. The Adventra fits into the mould of the latter, the Territory more with Toorak Tractors.

But that's just me.

Cheers,
Steve

TigerMon
03-02-2005, 04:30 PM
yes but I don't see this in the Adventra

http://www.ford.com.au/newfordterritory/images/1/gallery_7.jpg

Devil CV8
03-02-2005, 04:38 PM
yes but I don't see this in the Adventra


I don't see a v8 in the territory either, what's your point..




congrats to ford for winning..... doesn't mean it was the best car though, just that it met the wheels coty criteria (and we have already been told how great that is) best out of the truncated list of cars that are available.

PepeLePew
03-02-2005, 04:44 PM
Interesting to see if the Boss was offering in the Territory, would that win it some extra friends? Or the 6T?

Tuna did say that ONE Boss Territory exists some place....

Man I personally cant help but like the thing. Why? I have enough kids to fill the SS...and I dont want to move up to a Patrol/Cruiser/Pajero style thing should I get lucky one more time in my life. It fills a gap for me...but it is annoying as I dont really like having to buy a vehicle even of that size...

7 seater option in a wagon is just too much of a squeeze and not to me an alternative.

SteveK
03-02-2005, 04:53 PM
Interesting to see if the Boss was offering in the Territory, would that win it some extra friends? Or the 6T?

Tuna did say that ONE Boss Territory exists some place....

Yeah, from the capa (http://www.capa.com.au) website:

" The CAPA 'Terror-tory' made its debut with it's supercharged, 5.4 Litre V8 engine producing 400kW and with its new low ride look, it was really something to see. We were disappointed that we ran out of time, with the 22 inch wheels and big brakes still to come. Tony said it was a strange thing to drive, performing and handling like an XR8, but in a 4WD spacious cabin sitting a lounge chair. It took a bit of getting used to, and summed up to be a great driving experience. To our knowledge this is the only V8 powered Territory in existence."

http://www.capa.com.au/pics/news_territory_01.jpg
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/news_territory_02.jpg
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/news_territory_03.jpg
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/news_territory_04.jpg

Cheers,
Steve

bigmack
03-02-2005, 04:59 PM
[QUOTE=Devil CV8]I don't see a v8 in the territory either, what's your point..


needs more than that 2 speed transfer case and a turbodiesel for it to win my heart. You can prolly guess I am a 4x4 nut I love 4x4ing.

ssberlina
03-02-2005, 05:34 PM
to be released soon this year..... a V6 Adventra
(source ..GoAuto news)
what was that you were saying??? :lol:

Say what!!!!

This is released tomorrow at the Brisbane Motor show. The Brisbane papers are full of the adds for it already. 190kw with stability control etc.

Venom XR
03-02-2005, 05:43 PM
They'll want to hope it kickstarts the feeble Adventra sales they're suffering now. A mere 84 sold in January... With figures like those, why would Ford stick a V8 in a Territory?

ExAreSix
03-02-2005, 06:12 PM
to be released soon this year..... a V6 Adventra
(source ..GoAuto news)
what was that you were saying??? :lol:

Go back and read what flappist said again... While reading it keep thinking of the word 'sarcasm'



I don't see a v8 in the territory either, what's your point..

Pfft, it's not helping the Adventra. Territory doesn't need a V8 option. It's selling like hotcakes in it's current form.
Turbo or a V8 option would be nice, but look at the sales, it's not a necessity.



You guys can call it a Toorak tractor all you like. But that tractor is outselling your adventra eleventy billion to one. :booty:

BA$TAD
03-02-2005, 06:30 PM
well done to Ford and all involved. A deserved winner and a kick ass effort.

Wezza
03-02-2005, 06:32 PM
yes but I don't see this in the Adventra

http://www.ford.com.au/newfordterritory/images/1/gallery_7.jpg
You can buy those fridges aftermarket and stick them on the seat just like that into any car. All held in properly by a.............seatbelt.........

VTII SS
03-02-2005, 06:56 PM
Congrats to FORD, It really is a nice car!!! My old man has just got 1, i am a Holden person but i really like the Ford Territory!! Maybe it will end up with a V8 or Turbo in the models 2 come.

BossV8
03-02-2005, 07:07 PM
All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't buy one, because with the numbers they're selling you won't be able to give one away in 3 to 5 years' time...

Having trouble understanding this effort..... the Commodore has been best selling australian car for how long now and you're saying you're glad you didnt buy a territory as in 3 to 5 yrs time you wont be able to sell one because of the large numbers they are selling of them? Seems all a bit gobbldee gook to me.... commodores are still selling great 2nd hand

As another point...if rumours are true there may be a diesel, turbo 6 and V8 in the pipeline

clixanup
03-02-2005, 07:35 PM
Seems all a bit gobbldee gook to me.... commodores are still selling great 2nd hand

Ahh, but you've missed the point. As fuel prices continue to increase over the next few years, people's pockets will start to hurt from the error of their AWD ways and they will head back to RWD sedans in droves. You mark my words.


As another point...if rumours are true there may be a diesel, turbo 6 and V8 in the pipeline

Didn't they say that a V8 was physically impossible due to front-end suspension?

BTW - Funny to see the Ford zealots out in force... :lol:

IIV8II
03-02-2005, 07:39 PM
It is highly unlikely there will be a V8, for a variety of reasons - one of them being demand. Turbo six - similar situation, but a better chance.. diesel.. err, that got a mix of :errr: ;) and :p and :( from the Ford boys last time I asked

TigerMon
03-02-2005, 08:39 PM
the pic of the fridge was a bit of a gag, but obviously all these things make a difference ..probably not to Wheels, but certainly to people buying this car who clearly don't need a massive wagon for a family of *three.

AndrewCowley
03-02-2005, 09:08 PM
Great. Just what we need. School mums with access to turbos. :rolleyes: Like school mums aren't dangerous enough?

Subaru Forrester XT.

NODDY347
03-02-2005, 09:53 PM
I have a good mate in Melbourne that has driven a turbo test mule late last year and reports it to be an impressive drive, so at a guess possibly mid to late 05........not that it is a big atraction to the average punter.

BossV8
03-02-2005, 10:59 PM
Didn't they say that a V8 was physically impossible due to front-end suspension?

BTW - Funny to see the Ford zealots out in force... :lol:

A 5.4 V8...yes, although CAPA have squeezed in a s/c 5.4 into one and have ran a low 13 in it. But there are other Ford V8's out there, that can be suited to the territory and will fit easily

Zealots...nah mate :lol:

Just happy that Ford have pulled there fingers out with BA and Territory and gave us a range that sells and looks the goods. The VT-VX was a great looking car and kicked the hell outta AU, so they had to....

RATT
03-02-2005, 11:40 PM
Ahh, but you've missed the point. As fuel prices continue to increase over the next few years, people's pockets will start to hurt from the error of their AWD ways and they will head back to RWD sedans in droves. You mark my words.

Wanna bet? SUV's will continue to grow in sales. Fuel prices have steadily gone up and what happened? V8 sedan sales are up, SUV sales are at record highs.




Didn't they say that a V8 was physically impossible due to front-end suspension?

BTW - Funny to see the Ford zealots out in force... :lol:

Don't know about a V8 but a turbo is a definate.

BTW, you scared of the Ford zealots?

vzsv6
04-02-2005, 12:03 AM
Now I know what all those big buildings are at the Ford factory at Broadmeadows........ The Wheels magazine printing line!! :D

mavss
04-02-2005, 07:12 AM
Congrats to FOrd.

I really like the look of the Terrority on the road and would consider buying one myself if it came out in a V8.

paulvdb
04-02-2005, 07:49 AM
I have a good mate in Melbourne that has driven a turbo test mule late last year and reports it to be an impressive drive, so at a guess possibly mid to late 05........not that it is a big atraction to the average punter.
Wheelieboy - Given the sales of the XR6 turbo, I think that a Turbo Territory is going to get lot's of guys excited. The only reason they're unwilling to let go of their current sedans and get their family into a wagon/SUV is loss of power. A 240KW Terri is going to fix that. I'd bet that a Turbo Territory is worth another 500 sales a month easy. Given that I have a TS Terri I can say a Turbo version with slightly tighter suspension would be fantastic - it'd be a great response to the V8 X5's and ML's and certainly VERY close to Cayenne (apart from the price)

Phido
04-02-2005, 10:06 AM
A diesel terry imho is a great idea. Diesels make alot of sense for AWD, they use less fuel, often farms have heaps of diesel onsite, lots of low down torque which is handy in vechicals like this. I belive they were looking at a 2.8L V6 turbo from europe, seems a bit small tho. Personally I think it would be *HEAPS* better idea to make the falcon six in a diesel varient. Then it could be added to the utes and possibly even into the sedan range. The 4.0 is a strong engine, bore and stroke suitable for a diesel application. A 4.0 turbo diesel will also make it a very powerful diesel. This engine could then be concidered for US trucks and perhaps Jaguar.

A Diesel would broaden the appeal, Diesel customers are proberly comming out of Nissan Patrols and Land Cruisers and want something more suitable to the city.

There will never be a 5.4L V8 Territory. The engine is just too big. However, a 4.6 would proberly fit. However the 4.6L V8 would struggle to match the performance of a six turbo.

For the turbo terry Ford I wonder about a few things:
-Will it be AWD or RWD or both?
-If it was RWD would it have a manual option?
-Bigger front discs atleast as a option
-Would it be pitched as a XR? or as a FPV? Or as a regular Ford?

My guess is Ford might release some details about the turbo terry in September or October..

clixanup
04-02-2005, 10:10 AM
Given that I have a TS Terri I can say a Turbo version with slightly tighter suspension would be fantastic ... and certainly VERY close to Cayenne (apart from the price)

:lol: how can you compare a 4.5 litre Twin Turbo V8 powered Cayenne to anything Ford or Holden offer? You're dreamin' :lol:

PepeLePew
04-02-2005, 10:33 AM
Heheh still goin....knew it'd be here.

Anyways, Ford zealots Im not sure. I am no Ford zealot, but am in the market soon for a car that fits my wants. Territory fits, although a 6T Territory would fit better. If a similar Holden existed, and for my wants Adventra doesnt fit, I'd compare that equally.

I do notice there are some strong anti-SUV sentiments, and fuel consumption. The first I can understand but thats a little zealot-ish :)

The second doesnt rub from owners of large chunks of Detroit iron :)

RICHO
04-02-2005, 11:06 AM
It isn't suspension clearance that's a problem for a V8 in the territory it's the position of the tansfer case.

During design / engineering the Terry was not "package protected" for the later addition of a V8 or Diesel. That means either more engineering and more expense to have these engines fitterd or find an engine that slot's straight in. Jag have a few CRD engines that would fit the bill nicely. As for a V8, don't hold your breath, a diesel will appear well before that.

Aus8
04-02-2005, 11:13 AM
I really dont think there would be a market for a V8 Terriotry. Sure, they will sell a few to V8 enthusiasts (like us) but I think they would have more success with the snail version IMO.


Cheers

Aus8

Nawdy
04-02-2005, 11:39 AM
First up, congratulations to Ford on this award for a car that seems to have come about at the right time. Obviously, sales down south must be extremely strong. They come out in both 2x4 and 4x4 configurations, right? I wonder what the sales breakdown would be.

To my mind, and as others have already stated, I think Ford have catered to the fashion-savvy mums and dads of suburbia at a time when 4x4's are the latest must-have. But, up here in the north (where every 2nd vehicle seems to be a 4by that gets used in it's intended role), they are few and far between. Why? Maybe, because beyond their capacity to carry people and look "nice", they aren't that practical.

But you have to give it to Ford this time around - they have delivered something Holden hasn't in the Adventura.

paulvdb
04-02-2005, 12:25 PM
:lol: how can you compare a 4.5 litre Twin Turbo V8 powered Cayenne to anything Ford or Holden offer? You're dreamin' :lol:
clixanup - the Cayenne comes with lower powered motors too !! They only cost ridiculous amounts of money rather than REALLY RIDICULOUS

oz_utester
04-02-2005, 12:28 PM
hazzah for the territory well done ford

clixanup
04-02-2005, 01:11 PM
clixanup - the Cayenne comes with lower powered motors too !! They only cost ridiculous amounts of money rather than REALLY RIDICULOUS

Maybe so, but surely you must admit that comparing Territory to Cayenne is drawing a long bow.

Its like comparing a Falcon to a 911. You just can't.

RICHO
04-02-2005, 01:42 PM
Probably true...

But Territory to Cayenne at least they're in the same vehicle category. The comparison of a Cayenne S with a turbo Territory would look like this..

Porsche
Engine: 250kw @ 6000rpm
Torque: 420nm 2500rpm-5500rpm
Weight: 2245kg

Territory (assuming a 270kw FPV engine)
Engine: 270kw @ 5250rpm
Torque: 550nm 2000rpm-4500rpm
Weight: 2125kg (have used the Ghia AWD weight)

Obviously the two vehicles have very different brand cache and the luxury of the Cayenne will always exceed that of the Territory. But based on figures...and at probably purchase price of an FPV Territory of $70k versus around $130k...It's an interesting if academic comparison.

Try the same with an LS2 powered Adventra....and ask yourself which one you'd take?

ssberlina
04-02-2005, 01:49 PM
How much did ford aust say they spent on the territory?

Looks like they shared some of the design costs with the us?

Check out this link.

http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?t=11028

RICHO
04-02-2005, 01:59 PM
About 2 and a half years into the devlopment cycle a full size clay of the Territory was sent to the US to be used in the final pitch for the rest of the funding and approval for the next stage of funding.

While in the US it was used in a numebr of styling clinics by the Ford US. Alongside the Freestyle, The response to the styling of the Territory was far more positive than the reaction to the Freestyle (the stle of which back then was pretty aweful!!). As a result of the clinic results the styling of the freestyle was changed to make it look more like the Territory.

BTW, GP's presentation in Detroit the only time in memory that the committee overseeing product approval ever gave a standing ovation.

So in short form, the Territory's $500m was all spent here, the US just stole a few ideas.

How do I know all this? I was "close" to the project in a past life.

AndrewCowley
04-02-2005, 02:15 PM
I really dont think there would be a market for a V8 Terriotry. Sure, they will sell a few to V8 enthusiasts (like us) but I think they would have more success with the snail version IMO.


Cheers

Aus8

The "market" for that is as big as the number of Adventra's Holden have sold to date. Given the number of 6 cylinder Territory's sold to date you would have to wonder why Ford would bother with a V8 Territory.

Christopher
04-02-2005, 02:27 PM
Jaguar's 2.7TDi V6 would be perfect for the Territory. The same engine's in the new Land Rover Discovery3 and there around 2700kg, around 700kg more than the Territory. The Discovery does have a 6sp Auto though, be nice to see the Territory be given a 5sp Auto and a maybe a 200kw I6 for the Ghia. :)

Ghia351
04-02-2005, 02:39 PM
Jaguar's 2.7TDi V6 would be perfect for the Territory. The same engine's in the new Land Rover Discovery3 and there around 2700kg, around 700kg more than the Territory. The Discovery does have a 6sp Auto though, be nice to see the Territory be given a 5sp Auto and a maybe a 200kw I6 for the Ghia. :)

If I didn't know better I'd swear you were quoting from the T's future product planning program.....the SMS is looking good for some things...

Ghia351
04-02-2005, 02:46 PM
ummmm
maybe coz it adds to the total of 4WD s*!tboxes on our roads
steered by blond mums (who can't drive or park) :lol: :lol:

Come now Smitty, half the T's are RWD so that makes them jacked up wagons on Falcon sedan chassis'...at least when those fairly attractive yummy mummy's do illegal u-turns in Hampton Street they have a much tighter turning circle in a T to stop kerb to kerb leap frogging...now if only I could "borrow" a council by-law officer's fine-book to catch the illegal "Loading Zone" hoggs I'd be in revenge nirvana.

clixanup
04-02-2005, 02:49 PM
But Territory to Cayenne at least they're in the same vehicle category.OK, they're both softroaders. That's about as far as you can take it.

Obviously the two vehicles have very different brand cache and the luxury of the Cayenne will always exceed that of the Territory.There's a lot more to it than that. The Cayenne will do 240km/h and go from 0 to 100 in under 7 seconds. It has 350mm brake rotors at the front with 6 (that's SIX :shock: ) piston calipers. Rear brakes have 4 piston calipers! 6 speed Tiptronic auto, active stability & yaw control..... and we haven't even got to the luxury items yet, like: panoramic roof, BOSE surround sound system, DVD player/s, reversing camera, the list goes on.

I'd like to see how a Terri copes at 240km/h. NOT.

Try the same with an LS2 powered Adventra....and ask yourself which one you'd take?
Why should I? I'd take neither. :thumbsup:

Ghia351
04-02-2005, 03:45 PM
Why should I? I'd take neither. :thumbsup:

I'm disappointed, I thought you mentioned in a past thread you work in an area involving a connection with cars/finance/accounting.(? sorry if I'm wrong)...I'd take the Cayenne and sell it immediately to fund my dream house renovations...after I bought a T' Ghia AWD.

IIV8II
04-02-2005, 05:05 PM
Maybe so, but surely you must admit that comparing Territory to Cayenne is drawing a long bow.

Its like comparing a Falcon to a 911. You just can't.
Not quite that bad...

clixanup
04-02-2005, 10:59 PM
I'm disappointed, I thought you mentioned in a past thread you work in an area involving a connection with cars/finance/accounting.(? sorry if I'm wrong)...I'd take the Cayenne and sell it immediately to fund my dream house renovations...after I bought a T' Ghia AWD.

OK. Change that to "I'd buy neither"

And my background is accounting/business law & taxation.

TigerMon
05-02-2005, 08:19 AM
Just on these types of vehicles generally - Can't stand them! At T-intersections or roundabouts you can't see anything if one is next to you. If one is in front of you, you can't see the road ahead. If one is beside you in multi-lane traffic you can't see anything on that side. If one is behind you, you can't see anything behind you, especially if they are close (which is most of the time). :bash:

They are heavy and can't stop as well as a regular car. People race in around in them like a sports car. Basically they are dangerous to other road users because when they hit you, they do serious damage due to weight – “Both the weights have inertia and both have mass. However, the larger weight has more inertia because mass and inertia are related. The more mass an object has the more inertia it has.” Most people don't need them. Many couples have them and families of 3 and 4 people, they never go proper off-roading, only as close to off-road as the gravel road to the caravan park. A station wagon has as much room, often more in the cargo area and just as much in the back seat.

It's a trend :cool: , plus a false sense of security from the higher drive position and an illusion of more space.

Genuine 4-wheel drive enthusiasts, large families (6 ppl or more = 3.7% in 1996), and farmers etc should have them. The rest need to stop watching tv ads glorifying these vehicles and resist keeping up with the Jones’s.

< RANT ends here >

Nobby
05-02-2005, 11:23 AM
Does anybody know how big the 6.0 litre engine will be? Smaller than the current Boss?

seldo
05-02-2005, 02:43 PM
Does anybody know how big the 6.0 litre engine will be? Smaller than the current Boss?
Ermmm...6 litres...;)

the mooch
05-02-2005, 05:41 PM
Does anybody know how big the 6.0 litre engine will be? Smaller than the current Boss?
if your refering to ls2, it's the same size as ls1.
Tigermon, I hope your not one of these drivers that freaks out every time they pull up next to a truck/bus/van etc. If you are, please don't be on the road when I am. I don't feel like being side-swiped by a nervous driver suffering tunnel vision.
BTW purchasing a 4WD is about a matter of choice..........

rednut99
05-02-2005, 06:41 PM
I turbo diesel Territory woul dbe awesome, all that car and imagin 300-400nm of torque and only 9L/100km hehehe.

myles
05-02-2005, 07:12 PM
TigerMon, I'm with you on the comments about the larger vehicles blocking the view of traffic.

For example, if you're waiting to turn right across busy traffic, I have no idea why the SUVs and 4WDs will drive beside on the left and a metre in front (can't see a thing to the left). I can't understand why the drivers of the larger vehicles won't stay back a metre or so, as they'd still be able to see. You miss sometimes the only break in traffic, and while the SUV or 4WD drives off, you feel like taking a left, catching up to the vehicle and hitting it square on with a bat. :lol: Hmm, maybe I will.

A Territory driver recently nearly side swiped me on the M1 (North Quay entry). Came onto the on ramp from two lanes over and a metre before hitting the wall. I'm impressed with the car's handling, it lifted side to side like an upended dingy but regained its balance. I got beside it and let the driver know that was a nice move. He then drove directly behind and proceeded to threaten to nudge the back of my car. Didn't bother me, as I thought 'hit my tow bar buddy, it's all good'! The funny thing is, I managed to block him in at a slower speed with the other cars. While looking in the rearview mirror, I noticed his wife screaming at him as they both tried to get back four lanes over to the left.

I kept this up until nearly the exit but a large roll of carpet (off the back of a truck?) ruined my plan. I just avoided hitting the carpet roll in the far right lane while the Territory's front right wheel lifted up into the air. He managed to just take the exit and we both gave each other the thumbs up while managing a laugh. :lol:

Well done to the Territory. Looks like a nice ride. :D

paulvdb
05-02-2005, 08:54 PM
Genuine 4-wheel drive enthusiasts, large families (6 ppl or more = 3.7% in 1996), and farmers etc should have them. The rest need to stop watching tv ads glorifying these vehicles and resist keeping up with the Jones’s.

< RANT ends here >
Nice rant Tigermon but.... It comes down to getting the right vehicle for it's purpose. I'd also go a Monaro if I could fit two adults, 2 kids in car seats, and a weekend of family stuff. A wagon is the right sort of vehicle for us at the moment and basically the Falcon wagon is from the dark ages, you can't buy a 190Kw Commo wagon, I wouldn't be caught dead in a Camry or Magna wagon so what does that leave me?? The Terri is a MUCH better wagon than anything else in it's price range. Yeah it's a pain for other motorists but it's awfully good for the people inside. I'm not keeping up with the Jones', it's just the right car for me right now.

Nobby
05-02-2005, 11:17 PM
Ermmm...6 litres...;)

Christ my post was rubbish, shall clarify:

Is the Boss replacement (Hurricane?) going to be physically bigger or smaller than the current Boss? I know its 6/6.2 litres, but height and width wise what is it?

dominik
05-02-2005, 11:27 PM
Tigermon, I agree with everything you said. I've said the same stuff to anyone who'll listen. But at least it's not as bad as the States. Over there those SUVs are monstrous and truly own the road.

The key point in this is how hardly anyone who owns one takes them off road as they were designed for, and now we've got Porsches, Mercs, and BMWs getting in on the act and those things most definitely will never leave the road given the high price of them. I can't wait for the day a special permit is required to drive one because too many mothers are driving around in them as they would in a sporty little bubble car and that spells danger for those of us sitting closer to the road in our sedans, ripe to get steamrolled. I know they're here to stay but they really piss me off because so many owners obviously don't need them and only bought them to get an unfair advantage in terms of safety, as in, they hit us and we come off second best. What they keep forgetting is how easy those things are to roll. They can't have it all.

P.S. What next, can we drive a Sherman tank out there? I mean, I want an unfair advantage against the SUV, for my future kids and my future wife... I reckon a Sherman will do the trick.

ExAreSix
06-02-2005, 02:37 AM
P.S. What next, can we drive a Sherman tank out there? I mean, I want an unfair advantage against the SUV, for my future kids and my future wife... I reckon a Sherman will do the trick.

If you can get a Sherman tank to comply with road regulations, sure, go ahead.

Twit
:bash:

payaya
06-02-2005, 06:15 AM
Does anybody know how big the 6.0 litre engine will be? Smaller than the current Boss?

If you mean physical side it wouldnt ever be as big as the boss as the boss have overhead cams.

payaya
06-02-2005, 06:20 AM
well Ford built a car which Australian wanted and yes Australians love it as it was designed primarily to suit us aussies.

It deserved wheel car of the year, ive driven one they are great!

payaya
06-02-2005, 06:23 AM
Tigermon, I agree with everything you said. I've said the same stuff to anyone who'll listen. But at least it's not as bad as the States. Over there those SUVs are monstrous and truly own the road.

The key point in this is how hardly anyone who owns one takes them off road as they were designed for, and now we've got Porsches, Mercs, and BMWs getting in on the act and those things most definitely will never leave the road given the high price of them. I can't wait for the day a special permit is required to drive one because too many mothers are driving around in them as they would in a sporty little bubble car and that spells danger for those of us sitting closer to the road in our sedans, ripe to get steamrolled. I know they're here to stay but they really piss me off because so many owners obviously don't need them and only bought them to get an unfair advantage in terms of safety, as in, they hit us and we come off second best. What they keep forgetting is how easy those things are to roll. They can't have it all.

P.S. What next, can we drive a Sherman tank out there? I mean, I want an unfair advantage against the SUV, for my future kids and my future wife... I reckon a Sherman will do the trick.

i think a lot of people who buy 4WDs buy them becasue they want somethnig different and also looks good. Yes 4WDs are hear to stay dont be suprised if they surpass sedan sales in the future just like in the states.

myles
06-02-2005, 09:28 AM
If you can get a Sherman tank to comply with road regulations, sure, go ahead.

Twit
:bash:

It's called sarcasm. Lighten up. Most of the time I'm laughing my ass off at what these guys are saying.

Last I checked, the department of transport doesn't have a learners or a driving test for tanks. :p

dominik
07-02-2005, 12:30 AM
If you can get a Sherman tank to comply with road regulations, sure, go ahead.

Twit
:bash:Hey, you're not paying for these jokes so lighten up bubba.

P.S. Thanks for missing the point I was making. If you're ever unlucky enough to have an accident involving one of those vehicles and there's not much left of your XR6T while Mrs Betty Boo in her SUV drives away practically intact, don't go crying about it. And for the record, it wasn't Ford bashing. I'm entitled to my opinion on who should be entitled to drive these vehicles, and I'm not a politician so why should you care anyway?

RICHO
07-02-2005, 06:12 AM
Christ my post was rubbish, shall clarify:

Is the Boss replacement (Hurricane?) going to be physically bigger or smaller than the current Boss? I know its 6/6.2 litres, but height and width wise what is it?

You're assuming that good old FoA will get a larger capacity engine....
I'd probably be looking out for 6 speed autos and supercharging before a capacity increase...but then I only know so much about Ford's future plans ;)

ExAreSix
07-02-2005, 06:44 AM
Christ my post was rubbish, shall clarify:

Is the Boss replacement (Hurricane?) going to be physically bigger or smaller than the current Boss? I know its 6/6.2 litres, but height and width wise what is it?

The Hurricane project has been canned. It is no more.

VYBerlinaV8
07-02-2005, 08:18 AM
I think the Territory winning COTY is an absolute joke. I have nothing against Ford, but to award it to a vehicle that is designed to look like a 4WD (but in many cases isn't, and Wheels themselves said the 2WD version was the best), uses a HEAP of fuel (more than my Gen3 VY), restricts vision of other drivers on the road and will tear a normanl car to pieces in a crash is just a car magazine selling out and trying to get on board with what is the most popular new thing. So it has a heap of storage areas. Hooray. Get some plastic boxes and toss em in the back of a Falc wagon and you've effectively achieved the same thing anyway.

clixanup
07-02-2005, 08:41 AM
I think the Territory winning COTY is an absolute joke. I have nothing against Ford, but to award it to a vehicle that is designed to look like a 4WD (but in many cases isn't, and Wheels themselves said the 2WD version was the best), uses a HEAP of fuel (more than my Gen3 VY), restricts vision of other drivers on the road and will tear a normanl car to pieces in a crash is just a car magazine selling out and trying to get on board with what is the most popular new thing. So it has a heap of storage areas. Hooray. Get some plastic boxes and toss em in the back of a Falc wagon and you've effectively achieved the same thing anyway.

^^^ And that, my friends, is the truth. Ford are cashing in on a gimmick which will eventually come back to bite 'em. HARD.

RICHO
07-02-2005, 09:20 AM
I think the Territory winning COTY is an absolute joke. I have nothing against Ford, but to award it to a vehicle that is designed to look like a 4WD (but in many cases isn't, and Wheels themselves said the 2WD version was the best), uses a HEAP of fuel (more than my Gen3 VY), restricts vision of other drivers on the road and will tear a normanl car to pieces in a crash is just a car magazine selling out and trying to get on board with what is the most popular new thing. So it has a heap of storage areas. Hooray. Get some plastic boxes and toss em in the back of a Falc wagon and you've effectively achieved the same thing anyway.

Couple of things Territory versus imported 4WD.

The Territroy has passed frontal collision tests etc and meets all Australian requirements for PASSENGER CARs. Imported 4WD's are exempt from these same tests and requirements. The terriory has passed the same rollover tests as pasenger cars, Imported 4WD's are exempt from these tests.

As for vision being restricted.....4WD's are definitely a pain to see around and through in traffic and this IS / CAN be damn dangerous, so allow more room. They can't atop as well as most cars, so don't push your car into tiny little spaces in front of them in traffic. Allow them the greater space that they need and there shouldn't be any problems.

In truth, there's no need to bring 4WD's into a road saftey debate at all. Drivers of passenger sedans seem to be doing a great job of killing themselves and each other with minimal involvement of 4WD's at all. They're just the convenient scapegoat of the moment.

And no I do not drive a 4WD, don't need one, don't want one, and don't particularly like them. Territroy included, just not my cup of tea. But before you drop it in the same bucket as those dangerous 4WD's at least understand the differences in the way it has been engineered and the vast difference in safety for both its own occupants and other car drivers that it offers over something like a patrol or landcruiser or landrover etc etc.

LT8888
07-02-2005, 10:37 AM
^^^ And that, my friends, is the truth. Ford are cashing in on a gimmick which will eventually come back to bite 'em. HARD.

Whether you like it or not, Ford would have to be stupid NOT to cash in. Look at Porsche. They've come out with the Cayenne, which IMO is a joke and a gimmick too, but they're raking in record profits after almost going bust not 10 years ago. Car companies are a business, and to stay in business you have to cater for the market and what people want, not sit there and complain if you're not doing well in the business. Also, Holden are bringing in a Daewoo built vehicle to compete with the Territory. I assume your opinions are the same for that idea or are they just reserved for Fords just because you can't take the fact that a Ford won COTY?

PepeLePew
07-02-2005, 10:41 AM
Anti-rice

Anti-SUV/4WD

What will we be into next, anti-V8? Nope, we like those! But many dont.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But opinions need to be backed up to be meaningful, sans emotion.

I dont know about others, but after reading the content of this thread I'm unmoved. A nerve has been struck with many and as the Territory sees perceived success its getting more sensitive. Ford found a niche, produced something pretty decent to fill it, Joe Q Public likes it, the scribers like it. Nuff said :)

clixanup
07-02-2005, 11:27 AM
Also, Holden are bringing in a Daewoo built vehicle to compete with the Territory. I assume your opinions are the same for that idea or are they just reserved for Fords just because you can't take the fact that a Ford won COTY?

Couldn't care less that it won COTY, its still an obstacle. And yes, I will have the same opinion about whatever "softroader" or "SUV" Holden choose to serve up. :spew:

FWIW, COTY has never influenced my decision in purchasing a car. To me, other peoples' opinions carry little weight. I'm buying the car for me, not them. Personally, I'm not a Ford hater. If they produced a car which I liked, I'd buy it. Its as simple as that. :)

Evil LS1
07-02-2005, 04:12 PM
Was there ever any doubt about the Territory getting CAR of the YEAR. I said it would win 8 months ago. I personally despise these tanks but still think the Territory is about the best looking large 4WD around - which isn't saying much though. Boy the Adventra is a dead duck these days.

Anyway they should all be banned for sheer waste of resources and ugliness and danger to other drivers. :mad:

FNQracing
07-02-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm suprised Wheels COTY still get so much interest. Their reputation is not good, awarding it to such turds as P76, Camira, VN and VR. I might be a bit hard on the VR, 20/20 hindsight is an advantage tho. VR suffered woeful build quality and numerous electrical / niggly failures. The VN was the same, just 100% worse.

Smitty
07-02-2005, 07:08 PM
I'm suprised Wheels COTY still get so much interest. Their reputation is not good, awarding it to such turds as P76, Camira, VN and VR. I might be a bit hard on the VR, 20/20 hindsight is an advantage tho. VR suffered woeful build quality and numerous electrical / niggly failures. The VN was the same, just 100% worse.
pardon???
VR was a revelation..decent paint good panel fit
decent levels of features, (front) suspension upgrade
and it creamed the Falcon opposition.
imo, it was the Commodore Holden should have had with VN

FNQracing
07-02-2005, 07:18 PM
pardon???
VR was a revelation..decent paint good panel fit
decent levels of features, (front) suspension upgrade
and it creamed the Falcon opposition.
imo, it was the Commodore Holden should have had with VN

You got the last one right!

I had a VR... Complete POS... Fading paint, rattles and sqweaks after 50k, you could feel the chassis groaning and twisting whilst towing, power windows kept breaking, central locking out to lunch, brake shudder, driveline vibration under acceleration, water leaks.... I'll stop here, its making me angry after all this time! If it was'nt for finances I'd have got rid of it far sooner.

It wasnt just mine. I knew other with similar complaints. Would'nt wish one on a Ford fan.

Smitty
07-02-2005, 10:02 PM
You got the last one right!

I had a VR... Complete POS... Fading paint, rattles and sqweaks after 50k, you could feel the chassis groaning and twisting whilst towing, power windows kept breaking, central locking out to lunch, brake shudder, driveline vibration under acceleration, water leaks...

must been a Monday or Friday car...... :eek:
I got mine (a Berlina) new, built to order
paint is fantastic (Red !), tows the bikes no problems
no engine or trans Vibes (with the V8) no engine oil leaks...
and things that break???
hmmm ...
lemmee think
apart from usual stuff like tyres and struts and shocks at 70,000, brake pads every 50,000 , I think the battery went about 3 year ago..... :lol:
its a good one, I guess

cheers

plonkerchops
08-02-2005, 12:35 AM
I had a VR ss, is was a great car , super reliable, drove great , paint was fantastic , except for the rear spoiler that faded cos its backside hung out the carport , even after 230 000 k. I did have electrical problems in the end with it , have the fan on and hit the rear dimister and it would turn off, but not always and that could have been cos I punched the thing in a fit of rage :confused: :box: :cool:

VYBerlinaV8
08-02-2005, 08:04 AM
Couple of things Territory versus imported 4WD.

The Territroy has passed frontal collision tests etc and meets all Australian requirements for PASSENGER CARs. Imported 4WD's are exempt from these same tests and requirements. The terriory has passed the same rollover tests as pasenger cars, Imported 4WD's are exempt from these tests.

As for vision being restricted.....4WD's are definitely a pain to see around and through in traffic and this IS / CAN be damn dangerous, so allow more room. They can't atop as well as most cars, so don't push your car into tiny little spaces in front of them in traffic. Allow them the greater space that they need and there shouldn't be any problems.

In truth, there's no need to bring 4WD's into a road saftey debate at all. Drivers of passenger sedans seem to be doing a great job of killing themselves and each other with minimal involvement of 4WD's at all. They're just the convenient scapegoat of the moment.

And no I do not drive a 4WD, don't need one, don't want one, and don't particularly like them. Territroy included, just not my cup of tea. But before you drop it in the same bucket as those dangerous 4WD's at least understand the differences in the way it has been engineered and the vast difference in safety for both its own occupants and other car drivers that it offers over something like a patrol or landcruiser or landrover etc etc.

I appreciate that Territory has passed the requisite tests, but simply physics shows us that when two cars collide, the energy has to be dispersed. If I crash a 2 tonne car, more energy has to be disspated in the accident than if I crash a 1.5 tonne car. Of course there is more to the story than that, otherwise we would all be driving Daewoo Matiz's. My point, though, is that the Territory is a large vehicle, with additional weight and poorer handling than a sedan, but doesn't really have any extra room, and only limited off road ability (and lets get real, most of these things will never see dirt anyway). And we won't talk about fuel consumption...

Your point about it passing passenger car tests is well made, but my question would be: how did it perform relative to, say, a Falcon wagon?

RICHO
08-02-2005, 09:42 AM
Can't comment its performance relative to the wagon..But the 2 tonne versus 1.5 Tonne argument is absolutely academic. Despite all those micro cars out there that have 4 or 5 star crash ratings..if they are EVER in a crash with a commodore sized car at speed the occupants of the micro are stuffed, basic physics, kinetic energy etc.

Given how unsafe small cars are in this context, why isn't there a call to ban the sale of ay car smaller than an Astra / Mazda 3 sized vehicle?? Particularly since the overwhelming majority of cars on the road in Australia fall into the C/D or D/E segments by size??

I struggle with the concept that someone who buys a small car knowing it to be at risk in a collision with a larger vehicle can then try to have laws changed for existing and future owners of large vehicles.

Today it's the Territory and 4WD vehicles in the sights of the pedestrian council etc. But there is no doubt that their sights will shift to Commodore / Falcon sized vehicles at some point. The arguement should be countered from day 1 whatever the context. It is the driver, not the car (or 4WD or truck) that's dangerous.

clixanup
08-02-2005, 10:16 AM
Today it's the Territory and 4WD vehicles in the sights of the pedestrian council etc. But there is no doubt that their sights will shift to Commodore / Falcon sized vehicles at some point.

Now you're just trying to bring emotion into the debate. They'll never shift their sights to Commodore / Falcon sized vehicles, as these vehicles make up the majority of cars on the road and are a necessity to most families. The facts are simple - heavy, vision obsructing vehicles are dangerous and unnecessary in 99% of Aussie families.


It is the driver, not the car (or 4WD or truck) that's dangerous.

Isn't that the point he's trying to make? No matter how you look at it, a Territory sized vehicle will need more room to stop in an emergency than a Falcon sized equivalent. People drive them as though that is not the case.

There is also the attitude of "I'm bigger than you, so give me way." I've lost count of the number of times I've been "squeezed out" while merging by someone driving a 4WD sized vehicle, even though I've had right of way. Not all "tank" drivers behave that way, but from experience most do. It isn't just the car I have a problem with, its the arrogance that comes with it.

/rant

myles
08-02-2005, 10:53 AM
There is also the attitude of "I'm bigger than you, so give me way." I've lost count of the number of times I've been "squeezed out" while merging by someone driving a 4WD sized vehicle, even though I've had right of way. Not all "tank" drivers behave that way, but from experience most do. It isn't just the car I have a problem with, its the arrogance that comes with it.
/rant

Couldn't agree more. My previous post about the Territory driver nearly cleaning me up on the freeway (one example from many) wasn't a brag about who was better. I managed to have a laugh out of it but afterwards I thought to myself how many people did he do that to (cutting off at high speed) in one day?

Five, six...twenty?

Not to mention the aggressive follow up of 'I'm going to drive a millimetre behind your car to damage it and get you out of the way'.

the mooch
08-02-2005, 03:22 PM
Some of you guys need to get a grip.... The points have been made several times in this thread that 1. It's not the 4WD it's the guy behind the wheel. 2. owning a 4WD is a matter of choice, and that includes having to pay the extra fuel bill (some of you who own modified V8's are just plain hypocritical). 3. if you have problems negotiating around a 4WD, then how the hell did you get a licence in the first place? since vans (bigger than 4WD's) small trucks (bigger than vans) buses (see a trend here?) and large trucks have been part of our roads since most of us were born! Did you guys just freeze up and shit yourselves every time one of these vehicles got near you? Don't know about you guy's but I am more cautious of arrogant bus drivers who think just because they have a "please give way" sign on their rump they can pull out at ANY time without notice, never mind the oncoming traffic being too close. Or what about the plumbers vans (example) with painted out windows? Blind spot, anyone?
I've had my licence for 14 years now. Owned small cars, large cars, 4WD's, and utes. Seen accident's involving all of the above (haven't had many, thank god). Seen a lot of really bad driving in all of these types of cars, too. But you know what? Every slip up i've whitnessed involving any type of the vehicles listed above had FXXK ALL to do with what sort of car it was, and plenty to do with the idiot behind the wheel. Unfortunately, defensive driving and good, sensible road craft have all but dissappeared. Instead, we get inattention, fustration, anger and finally blame whenever things turn sour. If you've got a problem with the WAY 4WD's (or any other vehicles) are driven, whinge about the driver instead.
BTW, I don't have a problem with 4WD's when I'm in the SS. In fact, their lack of speed makes them very easy to overtake. IMO......

Mongy
08-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Does anybody know how big the 6.0 litre engine will be?

Ermmm...6 litres... ;)
:lol: No doubt about you Dave, straight to the point :p


P76 won COTY once too.
:rolleyes: sadly I remember this well, we all thought they had been smoking the Riverina Ready Rubbed :lol: What can I say, in the past winning it was the same as getting the "kiss of death" but good on Ford for winning it and BAH to those who are jealous. :D

Ghia351
08-02-2005, 06:52 PM
You got the last one right!

I had a VR... Complete POS... Fading paint, rattles and sqweaks after 50k, you could feel the chassis groaning and twisting whilst towing, power windows kept breaking, central locking out to lunch, brake shudder, driveline vibration under acceleration, water leaks.... I'll stop here, its making me angry after all this time! If it was'nt for finances I'd have got rid of it far sooner.

It wasnt just mine. I knew other with similar complaints. Would'nt wish one on a Ford fan.

Didn't the upgraded Holden paint plant come online during the VR run and hence depending on your build date you either got the shocking paint finish(as with my sister's company VR exec. back then) of the early cars or the much better paint finish after the new paint plant started?

Drewie
08-02-2005, 07:43 PM
Didn't the upgraded Holden paint plant come online during the VR run and hence depending on your build date you either got the shocking paint finish(as with my sister's company VR exec. back then) of the early cars or the much better paint finish after the new paint plant started?

I got a new VR around mid '94 and it had the new 2-pac finish, the earlier ones were acrylic. Never had a problem with the paint on mine, the problems I had with mine were, bad valve stem seals it was using heaps of oil I got the usual they all use a bit then they finally admitted there was a faulty batch and replaced the seals under warranty, had water leaks in the boot a wheel arch seam was not sealed properly, and the torque converter lock-up clutch went at just on 100,000km there were a few other things too just can't recall them.

Smitty
08-02-2005, 08:36 PM
Didn't the upgraded Holden paint plant come online during the VR run and hence depending on your build date you either got the shocking paint finish(as with my sister's company VR exec. back then) of the early cars or the much better paint finish after the new paint plant started?
Ghia
correct mate
it was brought online at the start of VR series II
mine is one of the last of VR Series I ..
It got delivered to me 2 weeks after the release of SeriesII but with no SeriesII changes (paint mirrors interior badges etc)
So it came with acrylic but with a clear cote :eek:
and then the transport co scratched the rear bar backing it off the transporter..while I watched :mad:
the dealer got it repainted and 10 years on there is a subtle difference in the reds....

cheers