Alan (Gloria) Jones on ethanol

[pah]

Hi all,

If you listened to Alan Jones on 2GB this morning, you would have heard his speel on ethanol.

He made the point that the Yanks & Brazil are blending significant amounts of ethanol into their fuel for the benefit of extending oil reserves and for the benefit of the environment.

So who runs Australia? The political parties that we vote for or the corporate multi-nationals? Jones made a comment that appeared to me to touch on this issue.

Democracy they say? It's easy to see why it's so well liked by the corporate multi-nationals! They can't aquire a nation's resources until they introduce democracy ;-) Look at what we've kissed goodbye in Australia: Commentwealth Oil Refineries, the Commonwealth Bank, Telecom, GIO Insurance, Power Utilities, Railways etc etc etc. The sad thing is that prices invariably escalate after privatisation! Take phone line rental for example.

Using Australian ethanol would give us a buffer against the multi-national oil Co's (to an extent) and help to support internal combustion cars into the future.



PAH

[IIV8II]

Sorry, but what's your point? I'm not sure..

FWIW, Ethanol is okay in concentrations up to 10 percent

[mavss]

Not sure if I heard this right, but I believe they are using Ethanol to power cars in Europe.

We've got to do something to extend our fuel reserves, while we look for alternate fuels in the meantime.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Probably a fraction off topic, but there's a servo near my house that sells 'ethanol blend', which is 10% ethanol for a cent a litre cheaper than ULP, which they also sell. It's supposed to be 94-95 octane. I thought I'd try some, so I filled my little Daewoo up (not putting it near the Berlina 'til I have more information!), and it's running better than it ever has! More power (relatively speaking), and heaps smoother.

Has anyone tried this in their LS1? What sort of results? Is there a different rate of wear?

[clixanup]

We've got to do something to extend our fuel reserves, while we look for alternate fuels in the meantime.

No. That's just what they want you to think. We'll never know the truth about how much oil there is left or how much there is in reserve.

I mean, if the search for alternative fuels was genuine don't you think they'd have something by now? I've heard that you can run a car on anything from water to used cooking oil with little to no modification, so how is it that we aren't?

Incidentally, what happened to the E-Commodore which was showcased by Holden not so long ago?

http://www.fastlane.com.au/News/Holden_ECOmmodore.htm

Don't you think that if oil reserves were truly a problem we'd all be driving one? How is it that cars are seemingly getting thirstier every year? Holden are selling more V8s than ever before and Ford finally got the consumption of their 4 litre engine to below 15lt/100km only to put it into a heavy AWD vehicle which pushes it back up.

Why? If the problem was real would governments allow car producers to continue building thirsty cars?

Note: I drive a V8 and love it.

[clixanup]

Has anyone tried this in their LS1? What sort of results? Is there a different rate of wear?

It won't hurt your LS1 to try it. The PCM compensates for poor quality fuel by retarding the ignition timing, so you'll be able to tell if the car doesn't like it. LS1s are tuned to be able to take 91 RON fuel, so if this stuff is 94 to 95 it should be OK.

[VYBerlinaV8]

It won't hurt your LS1 to try it. The PCM compensates for poor quality fuel by retarding the ignition timing, so you'll be able to tell if the car doesn't like it. LS1s are tuned to be able to take 91 RON fuel, so if this stuff is 94 to 95 it should be OK.

Thanks for that. I'll run the tank down to dead empty and just put in a half a tank and see how it goes. That way if its crap I can top up with premium and go for a long drive at light load to burn it off.

[TriShield]

I mean, if the search for alternative fuels was genuine don't you think they'd have something by now? I've heard that you can run a car on anything from water to used cooking oil with little to no modification, so how is it that we aren't?

We do it here in my part of the US. Ethanol concentration up to 85% is common, and cheaper than normal petrol. I've been running the 10% in all of my vehicles with no troubles whatsoever, and that won't change when I get my LS2 Monaro. Biodiesel is taking off here as well, with all the diesel semis and fullsize trucks around.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/

[muzza]

See the choice article for general info in australia - http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=103649&catId=100463&tid=100008&p=1

Carpoint article - has some Holden info at the end about how they mod their cars that go to Brazil (where they use lots of ethanol in the fuel).
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__6491/ArticleID__4806/DesktopDefault.aspx

Ethanol can reduce pinging in engines by raising the Octane number about 3 points - but it increases fuel consumption in more primitive cars (ie: open loop cars) while reducing CO and HC emissions (but increasing aldehydes and NOx).

Modern FI closed loop engine systems like ours should be able to lean out the fuel mixture to compensate for the extra oxygen available from the ethanol and so maintain consumption the same as normal unleaded. Whether closed loop cars produce more pollution with E10 I dont know.

E10 fuel has a lower energy density that neat petrol so it is likely that fuel econ would suffer even in closed loop control cars

Fuel with 10% ethanol (E10) is considered safe for normal cars (Octane around 95?)

More useful info about fuels etc here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

Also Dept of Environment stuff here: http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/publications/ethanol-limit/background.html
There are two pages there - click "next" .