Monaro Vs XR6T

[VZKOOP]

The Sunday Telegraph published a VZ Monaro & XR6T comparison on the weekend. XR6T was the winner.
I don't have a major problem with the result (Rzznfrzzngrrr), but far canal, a bit of fairness in the test would help ease the pain! Do auto journalists get dumber by the day or is there just no end to their stupidity? This particular article was apparently written by one Samantha Stevens. It's never quite clear which car she is driving unless of course she isn't driving either - which is probably an accurate guess.
If you read it you would also have noticed a couple of minor disparities. Such as the Ford was a 6 speed and the Monaro was an A4. But don't let that get in the way of determining which car was better in the tight stuff. In fact make a point of the A4's difficulty coming downhill through the bends because of the auto, then give the points to the Ford because it had no such issue with the driver choosing between 1 of 6 gears...... :bash:
But just to show there is no brain malfunction on the journalists part write about how good the V8 is ripping up the mountain compared to the 6T then give it no points anyway....... :mad:
Give the Ford a point for better fuel consumption to the mountains - but wait for it - Give the Monaro a point for better fuel consumption overall 14.45 vs 14.55l/100 - WTF? Then give Munro another point for the Ford blowing a wheel bearing. 2 all apparently.
But as this is a "test of performance value" the Ford wins because it's 14K cheaper :rolleyes:
Is it just me - and my VZ Monaro - or is there another car that Holden has that would have suited this particular comparison? I don't know, maybe a SS Commodore or an SV8 Commodore!!!!! You know a car with 1, 2, 3, count them.....4 doors! And maybe even a car with 6 gears :bash:

Statement of Fact - Motoring Journalists have no idea about motoring!

Now that I have that off my chest........

[ExAreSix]

Awww poor baby. Your high performance coupe got beat by a four door family sedan. Waaaa :lol:

Mate, your car, it's just a commodore :p



P.S Dude, just joking. Don't take it to heart.

[oz_utester]

or maybe women dont....


/runs and hides

[Merlin]

Yeah that article does seem a little flawed (comparing an auto to a manual).

However there is no real direct competitor to the XR6T.

[Ghia351]

The Sunday Telegraph published a VZ Monaro & XR6T comparison on the weekend. XR6T was the winner.
I don't have a major problem with the result (Rzznfrzzngrrr), but far canal, a bit of fairness in the test would help ease the pain! Do auto journalists get dumber by the day or is there just no end to their stupidity? This particular article was apparently written by one Samantha Stevens. It's never quite clear which car she is driving unless of course she isn't driving either - which is probably an accurate guess.
If you read it you would also have noticed a couple of minor disparities. Such as the Ford was a 6 speed and the Monaro was an A4. But don't let that get in the way of determining which car was better in the tight stuff. In fact make a point of the A4's difficulty coming downhill through the bends because of the auto, then give the points to the Ford because it had no such issue with the driver choosing between 1 of 6 gears...... :bash:
But just to show there is no brain malfunction on the journalists part write about how good the V8 is ripping up the mountain compared to the 6T then give it no points anyway....... :mad:
Give the Ford a point for better fuel consumption to the mountains - but wait for it - Give the Monaro a point for better fuel consumption overall 14.45 vs 14.55l/100 - WTF? Then give Munro another point for the Ford blowing a wheel bearing. 2 all apparently.
But as this is a "test of performance value" the Ford wins because it's 14K cheaper :rolleyes:
Is it just me - and my VZ Monaro - or is there another car that Holden has that would have suited this particular comparison? I don't know, maybe a SS Commodore or an SV8 Commodore!!!!! You know a car with 1, 2, 3, count them.....4 doors! And maybe even a car with 6 gears :bash:

Statement of Fact - Motoring Journalists have no idea about motoring!

Now that I have that off my chest........

As much as I love my Ford's, the Monaro is a stand out car in the Holden range and has no direct Ford Oz competitor....might I suggest you use the newspaper to clean your shoes if they ever get muddy before sitting in the Monaro and enjoy it to the max. A little o/t, how do you find the smaller boot or is it not an issue for your own needs?

[VZKOOP]

A little o/t, how do you find the smaller boot or is it not an issue for your own needs?

It's okay unless you want to carry something......... :D

[MrCLubby]

Wow those journo's love the Ba, especially the turbo....yet one of my friends works for Ford and has pages and pages or common faults associated with the model and wont buy one even at staff prices. Along with that given, petrol consuption of that in the magazines to real life stats of the BA are completely different. Furthermore I cant see the justification of comparing an auto to a manual transmition, the manual will win hands down in terms of fun and enjopyment, due to riding around corners and so forth. So why on earth would you allow such a comparrason in models...to sum up i dont read Motor or Wheels anymore i just read forums and talk to people about models to find out how the car shapes up. Thats the only way you can find out how well a car rates, not some dork writing an article in a overpriced magazine.

[Ghia351]

It's okay unless you want to carry something......... :D
really o/t...lol...leggy, mini-skirted well endowed passenger seat warmer is where i'd start and somehow the Monaro would be ideal me thinks...enjoy....

[VZKOOP]

Yeah that article does seem a little flawed (comparing an auto to a manual).

However there is no real direct competitor to the XR6T.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I like the XR6T it was a close 2nd to the Monaro for me but it has 4 doors....... and a proper boot :(
I'm gonna go and cry now.

[Merlin]

really o/t...lol...leggy, mini-skirted well endowed passenger seat warmer is where i'd start and somehow the Monaro would be ideal me thinks...enjoy....

Ghia you want a well endowed mini-skirted passenger? (read she-male)?

:p

[Ghia351]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I like the XR6T it was a close 2nd to the Monaro for me but it has 4 doors....... and a proper boot :(
I'm gonna go and cry now.

Both models have no opposing real direct competitor so maybe that was the stupid link in comparing them...if it'll make you feel better I'll swap you a BA Futura wagon (with optional dog hair in the cargo area as a bonus) for a VZ Monaro for a week.....see I knew I'd make you laugh...

[Ghia351]

Ghia you want a well endowed mini-skirted passenger? (read she-male)?

:p

Of the yummy mummy, bayside Melbourne variety, if you don't mind sir...

[VZKOOP]

I'll swap your BA Futura wagon for my AUIII Futura sedan....... :D
Oh and you can even sit in my Monaro and smell the leather..... :lol:

[Inter-ceptor]

I wonder what they will compare next just to even out the whole Holden vs Ford battle.
Maybe another great comparison: SV6 vs Ford GT-P.

Oh I can see that Samantha..."The SV6's side door mirrors show me other cars... NOT my own reflection... Holden 0 Ford 1."

[Brendan24688]

MrClubby, you'll probably find that no matter what car company you buy a car through they will release the model with pages and pages of problems. It's not something specific to Ford. The idea is so when the cars get serviced they can resolve the problem. Holden do it to mate as well as mitsubishi, toyota, mazda, porche ect.

[wally01]

Strange i thought Samantha Stevens test flew brooms not cars ,the witch business not to good these days ..

[malur8260]

I don't take journo's reviews too seriously, I'd prefer to hear what owners have to say. They know what a car is like to live with day in day out, something motoring writers can't comprehend.

[Ghosn]

Monaro loses cos it's 14k dearer? well spank me silly and call me charlie... Lets all forget the fact that a base monaro is basically an optioned out calais.


So if it was a performance value test, then what were the 1/4 mile times recorded? what were the track times recorded?

[Holden Nut]

I believe motoring journalists are a bit lacking in the brain after reading motor magazines 'performance car of the year'...where acceleration tests were conducted and compared. These tests involved 0-100km/h testing and 0-400m and 0-1000m times and speeds. Would have been ideal if they did them all together rather than spread out over 12 hours and in temperatures varying by as much as 17 degrees!!! :bash:

[Merlin]

I believe motoring journalists are a bit lacking in the brain after reading motor magazines 'performance car of the year'...where acceleration tests were conducted and compared. These tests involved 0-100km/h testing and 0-400m and 0-1000m times and speeds. Would have been ideal if they did them all together rather than spread out over 12 hours and in temperatures varying by as much as 17 degrees!!! :bash:

I would also have liked to see them dyno test and weigh each car as well in PCOTY- my bloody subscription costs enough, geesh!

Having said that its still a great mag (MOTOR that is) but I can never seem to collect enough useless stats :D

[Holden Nut]

I would also have liked to see them dyno test and weigh each car as well in PCOTY- my bloody subscription costs enough, geesh!

Having said that its still a great mag (MOTOR that is) but I can never seem to collect enough useless stats :D

I still don't think its anything special. That is only one of a few issues I have noticed with them. I have also noticed that they have contradicted themselves several times...one day the commodore is better, 2 months later the equivalent falcon is somehow superior . :mad:

[V82xist]

Both models have no opposing real direct competitor so maybe that was the stupid link in comparing them...if it'll make you feel better I'll swap you a BA Futura wagon (with optional dog hair in the cargo area as a bonus) for a VZ Monaro for a week.....see I knew I'd make you laugh...

Ghia351 has hit the nail on the head. What we think is a stupid link and the sort of comparison we would never dream up, just remember this.....who wrote it.
No matter how hard we try boys I don't think we will ever understand how a womans mind works and you will just get driven nearly insane trying :D

Call me chauvinistic but how does a chick get that job anyway, guys would kill for a job like that.

[Holden Nut]

Ghia351 has hit the nail on the head. What we think is a stupid link and the sort of comparison we would never dream up, just remember this.....who wrote it.
No matter how hard we try boys I don't think we will ever understand how a womans mind works and you will just get driven nearly insane trying :D

Call me chauvinistic but how does a chick get that job anyway, guys would kill for a job like that.

Whilst many of us can see the idiocy in the points she has put forward there are many others that aren't as knowledgable that will read the review and walk away thinking the XR6T is a better car than the Monaro though...that is what s*its me, and probably many other people. :mad:

[Buf-Phoon]

Ghia351 has hit the nail on the head. What we think is a stupid link and the sort of comparison we would never dream up, just remember this.....who wrote it.
No matter how hard we try boys I don't think we will ever understand how a womans mind works and you will just get driven nearly insane trying :D

Call me chauvinistic but how does a chick get that job anyway, guys would kill for a job like that.

Compare direct competition only and we would all ( Holden drivers as as well)be sick to death of any LS1 hosing an Xr8 wouldn't we LOL . But equally true for the T V XR8. Simply put it is a logical comparison , but you would think the Chimps at the paper could at least compare like transmissions... Shame Samantha .... shame. BTW anyone have her number LOL

[M&Ms]

A few months ago there was a comparo between a Manual SS and an Auto XR8. I think it was around the Bathurst 1000 weekend, where they drove the 2 cars down from up north somewhere. I think it was a Blue XR8 and Green SS. Anyone else remember what I'm talking about????
I remember them saying that the different transmissions were due to the fact that nothing else was available from Ford or Holden at the time. In the end, it's better than having no comparison at all methinks..

[Knight Phlier]

Does anyone know if Motoring companies and the journalists themselves recieve perks and cash from the motoring manufacturers?

This wouldn't suprise me as it is prevalent in almost every industry. I wouldn't see why the motoring industry is any different, and indeed if there are perks, I would only expect they would be from the manufacturers themselves trying to plug a new model or gain back sales. I wonder what kind of 'bonuses' can be had for journalists who align their bias to certain brands. This is all my opinion and is completely skeptical but I believe it has alot to play with the outcome of reviews.

Sorry to bring this up, but given the amount of threads on journalists viewpoints recently I have always wondered what actually goes on behind the scenes. I dont mean to open a can o'worms, but I think if this does go on, then we should be looking at these reviews (As all auto reviews) with a pinch of salt.... :o

[dogbreath_48]

This is why i don't bother reading the magazines anymore. It's really down to consistency. Motor for example; A while back the typhoon (for eg.) was king of the road, but after a simple mechanical fault, it's subjected to childish teasing about EVERY aspect of it's peformance, not just the reliability. hardly professional journalism.
The amount of times i've seen completely unsuitable comparisons defies belief.\

-Stu :)

[oz_utester]

yeah but ford publicly blamed motor for the problems, without even looking in to it, if it had of been a normal case of a failure and ford had of shut up and checked out the problem first, motor wouldnt be acting the way they are.

Though they did get a public apology.

[FPV GTHO]

I still don't think its anything special. That is only one of a few issues I have noticed with them. I have also noticed that they have contradicted themselves several times...one day the commodore is better, 2 months later the equivalent falcon is somehow superior . :mad:

If you want contradictions you shoudve read where they highlighted the F6 being excluded from PCOTY, and using the XR6T's fastest times against fairly ordinary times from the GT and XR8 and possibly the F6's slowest times to try and make out the F6 was slower than the T, when the previous issue to that had the F6 pull a 5.7 and 14.01

[Dacious]

I don't have an issue with the comparo or it's conclusion. I am not a rich person; have no children or significant vices so I got the Monaro, because it is what I wanted and could stretch to afford. Otherwise I would have got maybe a SS Ute which I was looking at doing as it is more practical for what I do. But it wasn't about practicality.

The XR6T was not even on my radar - no V8 and I dislike blowers of any description as IMO you don't get anything for nothing - sooner or later you have to pay the piper. I also hate the fact it looks and sounds exactly like every XR6 on the road; which is tons and tons of.

Someone focussed on value for money would pick the XR6T even though it's less performmance - but then having the Monaro in the comparo was superfluous from a budget perspective. I wonder if the XR6T had the 'premium' brakes - I bet it wouldn't get the nod coming down the mountain without.....

[VZKOOP]

Good point dacious.....
When I priced up the XR6T with all options (leather, brakes, premium sound etc) It came to about 58K plus on road.
Sam Stevo should have given the Munro a point for all those sumptuous surrounds - plus the lighted vanity mirror of course.

I WANT A RECOUNT!!! :D

[IIV8II]

Statement of Fact - Motoring Journalists have no idea about motoring!

Now that I have that off my chest........

Statement of Fact - internet whingers who read the Daily Blab don't know sh*t

[IIV8II]

I believe motoring journalists are a bit lacking in the brain after reading motor magazines 'performance car of the year'...where acceleration tests were conducted and compared. These tests involved 0-100km/h testing and 0-400m and 0-1000m times and speeds. Would have been ideal if they did them all together rather than spread out over 12 hours and in temperatures varying by as much as 17 degrees!!! :bash:

You didn't realise how silly your post was. Did you?

[IIV8II]

Does anyone know if Motoring companies and the journalists themselves recieve perks and cash from the motoring manufacturers?

:o
Yes, I know. No, they don't.

[VZKOOP]

Statement of Fact - internet whingers who read the Daily Blab don't know sh*t

Oh yes, now I see...... Your argument is foolproof. You have addressed all the areas of my "whinging" brilliantly. You have picked up on my humour with elegant ease. But best of all you have shown me that in future, should I have an opinion that I wish to share in this forum, I should refrain from doing so incase one so knowledgeable as yourself may be offended. :bow:

[caseyp]

How long will the turbo last? How many KLM's will the turbo do before a rebuild is due? I know that when my SV8 has 100,000 plus it will not need a rebuid for a quite a while where the turbo's are a unknown factor. Do a comparison on the V8 and ford turbo when they have done 100,000 plus and see what the difference is, not only in performanace check what the resale value is.

[LSX-438]

i dont quite understand the comparison (XR6T and Munro) however they are both desirable performance cars I guess.

btw there are a few 04 series 3 munros for about $48k lying around, coupled with a $3k GM card rebate, and the free rego/ctp/stamp duty deal, you can pick up a 04 monaro for around $45k drive away. I'm thinking of getting one.

[IIV8II]

Oh yes, now I see...... Your argument is foolproof. You have addressed all the areas of my "whinging" brilliantly. You have picked up on my humour with elegant ease. But best of all you have shown me that in future, should I have an opinion that I wish to share in this forum, I should refrain from doing so incase one so knowledgeable as yourself may be offended. :bow:

My joke made as much sense as yours: you don't like ONE article by ONE journalist who had been writing about cars for only a matter of months in ONE dubious-quality tabloid, and you want to sledge ALL motoring journalists? I met a dodgy plumber once - should I detest all plumbers?

[BLACK 346]

How long will the turbo last? How many KLM's will the turbo do before a rebuild is due? I know that when my SV8 has 100,000 plus it will not need a rebuid for a quite a while where the turbo's are a unknown factor. Do a comparison on the V8 and ford turbo when they have done 100,000 plus and see what the difference is, not only in performanace check what the resale value is.

That's assuming the LS1 makes it to 100,000 without
a rebuild :D

[BA$TAD]

How long will the turbo last? How many KLM's will the turbo do before a rebuild is due? I know that when my SV8 has 100,000 plus it will not need a rebuid for a quite a while where the turbo's are a unknown factor. Do a comparison on the V8 and ford turbo when they have done 100,000 plus and see what the difference is, not only in performanace check what the resale value is.

phoa clutching at straws there don't you think?
How do you know the turbo will need a rebuild? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't? I could say the same thing about the LS1. Sure it was a bad comparison but who said it needed to be taken seriously. Jeez relax a little.

[RICHO]

Can we end these continual debates / discussions about how crap reviews / magazines / journalists are. Here I am as an FF and I'll give my brief summary.

Holden's / HSV's are faster over the 0-100, 0-400 and most probably around a racetrack than not only their direct competitors from Ford / FPV but their non direct competitors.

The build quality of the the cars is basically on a par

The Ford's do not tear apart their front tyres when pushed hard like the Holden products but this appears to be when driving at 10 tenths and is likely to be remedied with VE anyway.

The Ford's "seem" to get the nod as daily drivers, but since most of us don't drive at 80% plus all the time I suspect that day to day there would be no difference whatsoever.

Appearance?? Very subjective. But my opinion, I like the SS and VY Monaro. I think the new bonnet scoops on the VZ Monaro look rediculous. I prefer the look of the FPV cars to the HSV cars, but performance wise I'd be hard pressed to look past a Clubsport and ultimately performance is what these cars is supposed to be all about.

When I next upgrade (which could be a long while now with a new house purchase on the cards)...I'll test drive all cars and make my own decision...but the way things look at present I'll be hard pressed to look beyond a Holden product.

In the meantime...I'll continue to enjoy reading the "opinions" of motoring journalists. And 'll even give some credence to the opinions of those journo's with experience.

In this case....there is ZERO credibility...and we all know it, so can I suggest we move on??

[VZKOOP]

My joke made as much sense as yours: you don't like ONE article by ONE journalist who had been writing about cars for only a matter of months in ONE dubious-quality tabloid, and you want to sledge ALL motoring journalists? I met a dodgy plumber once - should I detest all plumbers?

And there you have it, a joke is not meant to make sense.
However - I will concede that not all Motoring Journalists are dim. The number that seem to have a clue seem to be few and far between. Loyalties to brand aside, the amount of criticism in forums like these points to the continual mistakes and contradictions made by Journo's.
Don't get me started about plumbers...... :D

[superoo]

Had the same article been written by the same person but with the nod given to the Monaro, would this thread exist? Actually, it probably would - on FF.

It seems to me that the underlying issue here is that someone has had an opinion (flawed or otherwise) that is in direct contrast to a very emotional decision most of us have made - to buy a Holden or Ford because of brand loyalty. Let's face it, we all want to believe we drive the best and we want this confirmed by journo's. I find it interesting that one respondent here was upset because people who know nothing about cars would think the T is better. Well, some people already do anyway. It's called an opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

Ford and Holden love this type of discussion though. Hell, if we all didn't feel so strongly about the "mine's bigger or faster than yours" when it comes to cars, no one would buy a HSV or FPV. I drive an XR6T but when I think about my decision to buy one with the emotion factor removed, the fact is I didn't and don't need this performance.

I suggest we have a little more confidence in our decision making in regards to our vehicle of choice and not worry so much what everyone else thinks. It's great that forums like these exist and that we can discuss a passion we all share but sometimes its best to leave your emotions at the door when arguing a difference of opinion.

[VZKOOP]

This thread would be here if it was a CV8 A4 vs an SS M6. The XR6T is an awseome piece of kit. One of the best performance cars (bang for buck) ever made in Australia. The initial thread was started by me as a poke at Journalism not at Ford.

On with the debate...... :booty: :box:

[Red CV8 R]

How long will the turbo last? How many KLM's will the turbo do before a rebuild is due? I know that when my SV8 has 100,000 plus it will not need a rebuid for a quite a while where the turbo's are a unknown factor. Do a comparison on the V8 and ford turbo when they have done 100,000 plus and see what the difference is, not only in performanace check what the resale value is.

That is quite funny. As stated how many Gen 3s have needed a rebuild way before 100,000kms? Nearly all of them! My own has had 3 rebuilds, 2 engines and is being looked at for a 3rd! Has 60,000kms on it! The first engine didnt make 20,000kms. My previous turbo cars all went to nearly 200,000kms before being sold without a hint of a rebuild of the motor.

[jay2018]

scare..............a lot of ford.................

[ssberlina]

That is quite funny. As stated how many Gen 3s have needed a rebuild way before 100,000kms? Nearly all of them! .


Hmm, not quite right there. I am on my second gen 3 and I havent had a rebuild nor look like it. In fact out of all the guys I know on the forum, the ones that have had rebuilds are the odd ones out, not the ones that havent.

[Red CV8 R]

Hmm, not quite right there. I am on my second gen 3 and I havent had a rebuild nor look like it. In fact out of all the guys I know on the forum, the ones that have had rebuilds are the odd ones out, not the ones that havent.


So are you saying that very few Gen 3 powered cars have had rebuilds and that I am in the minority? There is life outside the forums and I suggest to you that the numbers of rebuilds are huge. Still if you wish to tow Holdens line that this hardly affects any cars then that is your business, but I think the proof is there and I am suprised with even what is written on this forum that someone would suggest otherwise.

[Danv8]

Hmm, not quite right there. I am on my second gen 3 and I havent had a rebuild nor look like it. In fact out of all the guys I know on the forum, the ones that have had rebuilds are the odd ones out, not the ones that havent.


My VX SS when I had it had over 120,000 on the clock (and most of the time driving like it was stolen) Never needed a rebuild. My calais is around 24,000 on the clock and still sweet as blueberry pie.

hmmmmmmm blueberry pie.

[Holden Nut]

You didn't realise how silly your post was. Did you?
There is nothing silly about my post actually.

[chook]

ONYA ! old IIV8 loves to stir the pot for a bit of a debate. :lol:

[PepeLePew]

Had the same article been written by the same person but with the nod given to the Monaro, would this thread exist? Actually, it probably would - on FF.

It seems to me that the underlying issue here is that someone has had an opinion (flawed or otherwise) that is in direct contrast to a very emotional decision most of us have made - to buy a Holden or Ford because of brand loyalty. Let's face it, we all want to believe we drive the best and we want this confirmed by journo's. I find it interesting that one respondent here was upset because people who know nothing about cars would think the T is better. Well, some people already do anyway. It's called an opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

Ford and Holden love this type of discussion though. Hell, if we all didn't feel so strongly about the "mine's bigger or faster than yours" when it comes to cars, no one would buy a HSV or FPV. I drive an XR6T but when I think about my decision to buy one with the emotion factor removed, the fact is I didn't and don't need this performance.

I suggest we have a little more confidence in our decision making in regards to our vehicle of choice and not worry so much what everyone else thinks. It's great that forums like these exist and that we can discuss a passion we all share but sometimes its best to leave your emotions at the door when arguing a difference of opinion.

Emotionless reply....its a bloody silly comparison. Thats from a Holden owner who will likely have an XR? in the driveway within 12 months.

[vzsv6]

I haven't read the actual article but from what I've heard it sounds like something I'd wipe my arse with.

A woman as a motoring journalist???? Please...... everyone knows women and cars don't mix..... :D

Anyhow, I take any motoring writer's opinions with a grain of salt.... they drive a car for 10 minutes and then think they know it all.

[TheRogue]

A mate of mine owns a stock manual BA XR6T ford that returns on average 12L/100km's.

He has a slight lead foot but doesn't drive around weaving in and out of traffic like you would have to in order to use 14L/100km's. :P

Both ford and holdens have their faults and rattles after 4-5years. :P

BUT..
I really don't like Holdens new ricey body kits.

If it came down to it I would probably look at a Ford.
Just a pitty they weigh so damn much. :)

[seldo]

Whilst I'm not an unobjective died in the wool Holden man I have owned or driven pretty much every thing that has wheels on it and as I've said in a couple of past posts, I decided I was going to buy an XR6T about 14mths ago. After back to back drives of the XR6Tand XR8 on the same day, they didn't ring my bell, so, a bit disappointed, went to buy an SS and ended up with a Senator...and i love it. I've had more cars than most of you blokes have had hot breakfasts, and I am a bit surprised to say that I have never enjoyed a car as much as the HSV in the last 30 or so years. I say the last 30 years because the previous 10 has become a bit clouded in history and too fueled and distorted with testosterone etc...:lol: So, let me say that the current Holden and Ford are damn good world class cars, and despite the cheap fumbled efforts of a 3rd rate female journo, the Monaro has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.......nor has the XR6T. It's just the sheila thing....like trying to compare apples with oranges, or justifying why it is ok for her to spend a $1000 on an outfit for a one off party.....but you are so useless and incompetent for investing $200 on a maf-pipe which is of far more forward-reaching benefit...think of the fuel saving alone..... Soooo, there is nothing wrong with the comparo,.......it's just a matter of whether she should wear the long slinky black number....or the tight shorts and string-back sandals...................:shock: I know, I know ...there is no logical comparison, .....but I am just a mere male...and, as i often say "It's hard being a man...." And whilst i admit to being a slow learner...(I've been married 3 times.....:shock: ), I have learned that I don't understand them.... :lol: So, my advice is ...don't get your knickers in a knot about this ...it's just a sheila thing...:hide:

[VZKOOP]

OMG! Even my wife had a laugh at that one. :lol:
Seldo - at last some perspective......... Twisted perhaps, but hey, aren't we all? :yup:

[ssberlina]

So are you saying that very few Gen 3 powered cars have had rebuilds and that I am in the minority? There is life outside the forums and I suggest to you that the numbers of rebuilds are huge. Still if you wish to tow Holdens line that this hardly affects any cars then that is your business, but I think the proof is there and I am suprised with even what is written on this forum that someone would suggest otherwise.

Hmmm, Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

There may well be quite a number of rebuilds but given the percent rebuilt to the number that have been sold, they are very much on the minority.

I am sorry to hear you have a crook one but that doesnt mean that they all are, so you dont have to get all stupid about it and make accusations like you have.

Also I do have a life outside of this forum and I currently know of at least 12 other owners who drive LS1s that do not belong to the forum (Although I am trying to convert them) and none (I will repeat that for the hard of hearing NONE) have had to get rebuilds. If I was to believe the crap you are saying they all should be lining up at the dealership now.

[ssberlina]

So are you saying that very few Gen 3 powered cars have had rebuilds and that I am in the minority? There is life outside the forums and I suggest to you that the numbers of rebuilds are huge. Still if you wish to tow Holdens line that this hardly affects any cars then that is your business, but I think the proof is there and I am suprised with even what is written on this forum that someone would suggest otherwise.

Hmmm, Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

There may well be quite a number of rebuilds but given the percent rebuilt to the number that have been sold, they are very much on the minority.

I am sorry to hear you have a crook one but that doesn’t mean that they all are, so you don’t have to get all stupid about it and make accusations like you have.

Also I do have a life outside of this forum and I currently know of at least 12 other owners who drive LS1s that do not belong to the forum (Although I am trying to convert them) and none (I will repeat that for the hard of hearing NONE) have had to get rebuilds. If I was to believe the crap you are saying they all should be lining up at the dealership now.

[BLACK 346]

Stop repeating yourself ssberlina, we get the point :D

[Red CV8 R]

Hmmm, Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

There may well be quite a number of rebuilds but given the percent rebuilt to the number that have been sold, they are very much on the minority.

I am sorry to hear you have a crook one but that doesn’t mean that they all are, so you don’t have to get all stupid about it and make accusations like you have.

Also I do have a life outside of this forum and I currently know of at least 12 other owners who drive LS1s that do not belong to the forum (Although I am trying to convert them) and none (I will repeat that for the hard of hearing NONE) have had to get rebuilds. If I was to believe the crap you are saying they all should be lining up at the dealership now.


It is attitudes like yours that lets Holden off the hook. If you think what I am saying is crap and I am just making unfounded accusations :rolleyes: then enjoy watching holden never take any of their quality issues seriously. This includes dodgy clutches, gearboxes and diffs. You dont have numbers to proove what you are saying and nor do I but having used 7 Holden dealers just in my area and spoken at length with all of them about this and I am also friends with a couple of mechanics who work for Holden who gave me a bit of info and I suggest to you that no matter what you think, the numbers of rebuilds and complaints are very high, worse if you own a VX. But still if it makes you feel better to rant at me because you and your mates have no issues, then go on, wont change the facts and many disgruntled owners of Gen 3 cars both here and in the states.

[IIV8II]

There is nothing silly about my post actually.
Maybe it wasn't 'silly', but you didn't think too hard about it... Unless you reckon you're capable of driving a dozen cars at the same time for exactly the same accel test, loaded with the same test equipment on a track at precisely the same nano-second... :p

[IIV8II]

ONYA ! old IIV8 loves to stir the pot for a bit of a debate. :lol:
;) where'd I put my spoon?

[VooDoo]

It is attitudes like yours that lets Holden off the hook. If you think what I am saying is crap and I am just making unfounded accusations :rolleyes: then enjoy watching holden never take any of their quality issues seriously. This includes dodgy clutches, gearboxes and diffs. You dont have numbers to proove what you are saying and nor do I but having used 7 Holden dealers just in my area and spoken at length with all of them about this and I am also friends with a couple of mechanics who work for Holden who gave me a bit of info and I suggest to you that no matter what you think, the numbers of rebuilds and complaints are very high, worse if you own a VX. But still if it makes you feel better to rant at me because you and your mates have no issues, then go on, wont change the facts and many disgruntled owners of Gen 3 cars both here and in the states.

Actually, knowing Col well, and knowing litterally 100's of ppl with Gen3's i think we do have the numbers. Ive had a rebuild but in reality its well under 1:10 ratio. Taking into account the amount of enthusists here who are a little harder on the cars than most i think the number of failures is pretty low. Holden seem to look after most with little problem (intermittant issues are hard to fix at times). Am i disgruntled because i required a rebuild? not at all. My next car will be a Gen3/4 and im 100% happy with how i was treated. The other ppl i know that have had rebuilds are all 100% happy with the work. Its rear these days to hear of the problem at all and when you do its dealt with professioanlly. Where are the disgruntled ppl??

[Red CV8 R]

Actually, knowing Col well, and knowing litterally 100's of ppl with Gen3's i think we do have the numbers. Ive had a rebuild but in reality its well under 1:10 ratio. Taking into account the amount of enthusists here who are a little harder on the cars than most i think the number of failures is pretty low. Holden seem to look after most with little problem (intermittant issues are hard to fix at times). Am i disgruntled because i required a rebuild? not at all. My next car will be a Gen3/4 and im 100% happy with how i was treated. The other ppl i know that have had rebuilds are all 100% happy with the work. Its rear these days to hear of the problem at all and when you do its dealt with professioanlly. Where are the disgruntled ppl??

You know you are right, I think I have invented this whole oil usage/ piston slap/ engine croak issue. Never happened. I must just be one of those people who abuse my car. Must be the case. Some blokes in QLD said so. Probably the same case with clutch, gearbox and diff failures. Never happen to a Holden. Also all Holdens dealers and fixes are 100% never any issues there either. Holden never have customers that are disgruntled let alone over the perfect motor called the Gen3 God damn faultless it is. I must just be trying to bring Holden down. Sorry I wont comment on this ever again as it is all in my mind :rolleyes:

[Ghia351]

Actually, knowing Col well, and knowing litterally 100's of ppl with Gen3's i think we do have the numbers. Ive had a rebuild but in reality its well under 1:10 ratio. Are you implying just under 10%, regardless of wether we're talking cars or toasters, a 4% to 9% failure rate or warranty claim on units sold would be disasterous for your profitablity not to mention reputation and even that figure sounds too high if true, either that or Holden kept it under wraps far more successfully then any Ford loving-Holden stirring fan could ever imagine.

[Red CV8 R]

This has been discussed before but of the Sydney dealers I have been dealing with numbers told to me were as high as three rebuilds a week each at one stage and this is not counting the engines which are rebuilt by Holden and sent to dealers (I got one of these after 3 rebuilds of my motor). This adds up to alot of cars. Despite what is said there are still issues as witnessed by the engine croak thread just below this one. Holden did well to get around this issue imo, not good for the consumer though.

[BLACK 346]

No HSV Senator, you are not imagining this. Whilst
I have had a pretty good run with mine since warranty
ran out, the list of things that go wrong with these
cars is a little bit long in anyones language. Just a quick
search on this forum will show clutch problems, diff
problems, pathetic brakes, overheating powersteering,
piston slap/croak?, rear tyres wear on inner edge,
clutch slave cylinder (I have had that one), and a
couple with tailshaft woes (I am one). Whilst I
had a very good dealer who looked after me warranty
wise (friend of wife luckily), I pity anyone who gets
the cold shoulder when things start breaking.
I think you will find a large percentage of very Holden
loyal people on this forum, who take a swipe at Holden
like a swipe at their own family :)

PS: I will still love my car again, once it stops making
that annoying noise :D

[seldo]

I could be wrong, but I thought this thread was about a stupid journo comparing Monaro vs XR6T....mutter...mutter...must be senile decay or dementia setting in...

[VooDoo]

Then sell the car and go buy something else. The issues are not anywhere as bad as you are making out. This forum wouldnt exist if it were. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill. While Holden didnt have the best record when the engine was released it also didnt have a lot of info on it either. I dont know a single person that has a recent issue, getting it fixed if its required. Same goes for diff's, gearboxes etc. Concidering the numbers of cars sold, the issues are minor and solvable. From your comments its clear you buying into the media hype. (PS overheating is an issue when racing around a track, not in everyday driving)

[vzsv6]

It is attitudes like yours that lets Holden off the hook. If you think what I am saying is crap and I am just making unfounded accusations :rolleyes: then enjoy watching holden never take any of their quality issues seriously.

Holden do take quality seriously, however there is only so much that can be done..... Do you expect all the quality issues to be miraculously resolved overnight?? Things like that take time.... in some cases a long time...
The VY/VZ took a huge leap forward in build quality compared to the VT/VX....... are you denying this???

Let me see you in charge of a huge automotive company like Holden and we'll see which way quality goes.

It's easier said than done.

[Holden Nut]

Maybe it wasn't 'silly', but you didn't think too hard about it... Unless you reckon you're capable of driving a dozen cars at the same time for exactly the same accel test, loaded with the same test equipment on a track at precisely the same nano-second... :p
Yes even I know its not practical or possible to do multipule tests at the same time and I dont expect that. They could have made a better effort at keeping them close together - they have done this in previous years. 2002 for example, the testing was complete after 3-4 hours and in similar conditions - there was hardly any variance in temperature.

[ssberlina]

Then sell the car and go buy something else. The issues are not anywhere as bad as you are making out. This forum wouldnt exist if it were. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill. While Holden didnt have the best record when the engine was released it also didnt have a lot of info on it either. I dont know a single person that has a recent issue, getting it fixed if its required. Same goes for diff's, gearboxes etc. Concidering the numbers of cars sold, the issues are minor and solvable. From your comments its clear you buying into the media hype. (PS overheating is an issue when racing around a track, not in everyday driving)


Amen to that !! I couldnt have said it better.

Now back to the topic. Yep most of the car journos are hopeless and wouldnt know one car from another if it bit them on the ass. (No offence to Mickey T. There are exceptions of course)

[Red CV8 R]

Then sell the car and go buy something else. The issues are not anywhere as bad as you are making out. This forum wouldnt exist if it were. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill. While Holden didnt have the best record when the engine was released it also didnt have a lot of info on it either. I dont know a single person that has a recent issue, getting it fixed if its required. Same goes for diff's, gearboxes etc. Concidering the numbers of cars sold, the issues are minor and solvable. From your comments its clear you buying into the media hype. (PS overheating is an issue when racing around a track, not in everyday driving)


I would sell the bloody thing if I could! Tried trading and it is not worth anything because of the bloody racket the motor makes, the fact the it wont go into gear properly, the diff has bad backlash etc etc Not to mention the fact Holden brings out a new model every 12 months.

You tell me if these isssues are so solveable, why was there 3 fixes released and people are still complaining of piston slap/croak? Why is there so many posts in the tech section about clutches, gearboxes and diffs failing?

Buying into media hype, what an insulting comment, its clear you are just a drone who believes that Holden can do no wrong. When you spend half your bloody time taking your car to multiple Holden dealers to get all these solveable issues fixed with nothing to show for it then you make think differently about Holden being the be all and end all.

I guess in the end I will just drop another $20k of aftermarket parts to replace all the flaws in my $50k Holden because it not worth selling anyway because I would be lucky to pull low 20s for it now.

This argument is pointless as a few of you guys will not ever concede that Holden is anything but perfect. I have been guilty of this myself in the past having owned many commodores over 10 years but this car has pushed me past that I hope you dont end up feeling the same way.

Anyway as stated this thread is not about this so I will say no more.

[VooDoo]

I would sell the bloody thing if I could! Tried trading and it is not worth anything because of the bloody racket the motor makes, the fact the it wont go into gear properly, the diff has bad backlash etc etc Not to mention the fact Holden brings out a new model every 12 months.

You tell me if these isssues are so solveable, why was there 3 fixes released and people are still complaining of piston slap/croak? Why is there so many posts in the tech section about clutches, gearboxes and diffs failing?

Buying into media hype, what an insulting comment, its clear you are just a drone who believes that Holden can do no wrong. When you spend half your bloody time taking your car to multiple Holden dealers to get all these solveable issues fixed with nothing to show for it then you make think differently about Holden being the be all and end all.

I guess in the end I will just drop another $20k of aftermarket parts to replace all the flaws in my $50k Holden because it not worth selling anyway because I would be lucky to pull low 20s for it now.

This argument is pointless as a few of you guys will not ever concede that Holden is anything but perfect. I have been guilty of this myself in the past having owned many commodores over 10 years but this car has pushed me past that I hope you dont end up feeling the same way.

Anyway as stated this thread is not about this so I will say no more.

ROFL, now i get it. Your pissed off because YOU have problems. That doesnt make Holden crap nor "everyone" having similar problems. it makes 1 person.

I dont need to take my car to multiple dealers. I take it to the dealer i bought it off, any issues are resolved and i pick it up. Ive had a rebuild and was treated extreamely well. Ive had my seat base fail, again was replaced without a problem. For me, holden product hasnt been perfect but the service i get is pretty close to it and any issue i have gets resolved to my satisfaction. Thats all ive ever asked or expected.

I think you will find many of the issues in the tech section are from modified cars. We drive them very hard at times and things break. I cant speak for Sydney but of the owners i know in QLD generally speak very well of Holden. Sure there are 3 fixes for slap, each better than the previous one (remembering they knew nothing early one). Holden can learn too. Not every engine has the new revision pistons from new, nor are they run in the same way. Even 1st revision engines can have no problems at all, some latest release might. Its not just a LS1 issue but is seen in many alloy engines (inc the Ford BOSS V8)

If you come accross to the service managers like you do on here im not suprised thay wont help you. Less arrogance and finger pointing on your behalf might go a long way towards getting the results you want. "Shopping" the problem to multiple dealers will get less results. Find a person you can talk to, explain the issues and the history. Dont demand anything. Im sure a Sydney sider can post the details of a good dealer in your area.

[seldo]

ROFL, now i get it. Your pissed off because YOU have problems. That doesnt make Holden crap nor "everyone" having similar problems. it makes 1 person. ....snip...

For me, holden product hasnt been perfect but the service i get is pretty close to it and any issue i have gets resolved to my satisfaction. Thats all ive ever asked or expected.
...snip..

If you come accross to the service managers like you do on here im not suprised thay wont help you. Less arrogance and finger pointing on your behalf might go a long way towards getting the results you want. "Shopping" the problem to multiple dealers will get less results. Find a person you can talk to, explain the issues and the history. Dont demand anything. Im sure a Sydney sider can post the details of a good dealer in your area.

I think that's all pretty accurate and good advice. Every time you go to another dealer they have to start at the bottom of the learning curve again. Stick with one dealer. Go and see the Service Manager (not the Service Receptionist) and lay out your case. Ask(!)....him to get the Holden Rep involved if necessary, and don't make a scene ..you'll catch more flies with honey than lemons...But be firm but polite...and if you don't get satisfaction, just ask politely who is the next person in charge, and work your way up the ladder to the Dealer Principal if necessary. Write Holden if you like, but the first thing they will ask is whether you have had it back to the dealer. And understand that these are inanimate objects - the tech can't ask it if it hurts here or there when he pokes it, so it isn't as easy as it sounds to fix these things sometimes. :)

[kaniSS-81]

I wont be reading that rag anymore.
:D

[V82xist]

So are you saying that very few Gen 3 powered cars have had rebuilds and that I am in the minority? There is life outside the forums and I suggest to you that the numbers of rebuilds are huge. Still if you wish to tow Holdens line that this hardly affects any cars then that is your business, but I think the proof is there and I am suprised with even what is written on this forum that someone would suggest otherwise.
There's only a handful of people on this forum that have had problems and how many members are there? If the problem was like you describe don't you think Commodore sales would be affected and people wouldn't by the V8. I know plenty of guys who have VTs through to VYs including myself and family members and none of us have had problems. But obiously your the Australian LS1 expert and know everything regarding them right down to what every owner eats for breaky and we are all just under some sort of Holden spell :rolleyes:

[GTS JaZzA]

we've had 2 gen 3's and never had any problems with it.

[NinetySix]

certainly lacking credibility that arcticle is...


and as for the LS1, as much as i would like to own one, i would never buy one second hand before about VY2

[Red CV8 R]

ROFL, now i get it. Your pissed off because YOU have problems. That doesnt make Holden crap nor "everyone" having similar problems. it makes 1 person.

I dont need to take my car to multiple dealers. I take it to the dealer i bought it off, any issues are resolved and i pick it up. Ive had a rebuild and was treated extreamely well. Ive had my seat base fail, again was replaced without a problem. For me, holden product hasnt been perfect but the service i get is pretty close to it and any issue i have gets resolved to my satisfaction. Thats all ive ever asked or expected.

I think you will find many of the issues in the tech section are from modified cars. We drive them very hard at times and things break. I cant speak for Sydney but of the owners i know in QLD generally speak very well of Holden. Sure there are 3 fixes for slap, each better than the previous one (remembering they knew nothing early one). Holden can learn too. Not every engine has the new revision pistons from new, nor are they run in the same way. Even 1st revision engines can have no problems at all, some latest release might. Its not just a LS1 issue but is seen in many alloy engines (inc the Ford BOSS V8)

If you come accross to the service managers like you do on here im not suprised thay wont help you. Less arrogance and finger pointing on your behalf might go a long way towards getting the results you want. "Shopping" the problem to multiple dealers will get less results. Find a person you can talk to, explain the issues and the history. Dont demand anything. Im sure a Sydney sider can post the details of a good dealer in your area.

I know I said I wouldn’t comment again in this thread but you got me, you are an arrogant bastard aren’t you? A bit of a reality check. I have given each dealer allot of time and multiple opportunities at fixing my issues over many months and with the original dealer over a year and I only move to a different dealer if I cant get satisfaction or they stuff things up so much that I cant trust them touching my car again. I have been messing with the same problems for 3 years now and they have not been fixed. I had my first rebuild after 3 months of owning the car. My loyalty to Holden has what has kept me going with this car as in the end I love it. My attitude towards the dealer(s) has always been very polite as I don’t believe abusing them gets you anywhere. I have probably been to nice in hindsight.

As for your suggestion that this is all about me, pull your head out and just read the angst that many people have against Holden just on this forum, if you wish to open your eyes you will see it. Something tells me you wont. As for Holden still learning about the Gen 3, what a croc! Holden have had this engine in commodores since 1998, how much time do they need? If they didn’t have a good understanding of the engine they shouldn’t have released it. Even now people are still making complaints, look at the thread about Howquicks new tonner for just one example of a new car still with this issue. There are so many examples throughout this forum and as I said this forum is a very small sample of enthusiasts, so is your group of mates.

Again what a waste of thread space this is. If you wish to ignore all the facts then so be it nothing will convince you to see anything differently, I am glad you have had nothing but good experiences with Holden wish I could say the same, I also have had my seat base collapse and after 3 goes they cant even match the leather or install it properly. You may feel like Holden is one of the family and you need to stick up for them like there is no tomorrow but don’t assume everyone else in Aus has the same run with them.

Note: I didn’t think the Boss was an alloy V8...

[V82xist]

Note: I didn’t think the Boss was an alloy V8...
It's not and VooDoo knows that, what he was pointing out is the Boss engine has also suffered from oil consumption issues.

[Danv8]

we've had 2 gen 3's and never had any problems with it.


Likewise
1) VX SS series 1
2)VY Calais series 2.

I lub that name Calais sounds soo classy. :lol:

[Danv8]

It's not and VooDoo knows that, what he was pointing out is the Boss engine has also suffered from oil consumption issues.

As with the BMW M5 and mazda RX8 also again with BMW some their M3's dropping dead like old flies as well. Anything mechanical or electrical is suspectible (if thats the right word for it) for failure.