PDA

View Full Version : Holden Adventra v Toyota Kluger v Ford Territory



Danv8
24-02-2005, 05:28 PM
Although I just copy and pasted the Adventra snippet.
Rest of the article is

Holden Adventra SX6


Holden won't be left wondering when the Alloytec V6-powered version of the Adventra goes on sale in April, as the SX6 offers the Territory TX and Kluger CV very stiff competition in value terms.

It is $2000 cheaper than the Territory and offers equipment advantages such as standard side airbags, hill-descent control, rear parking sensors, cruise control and 17-inch alloy wheels (steel wheels for the other two). That's on top of the gear all three vehicles get such as air-conditioning, dual front airbags, anti-lock brakes (ABS), power windows and single-slot CD players.

The Territory fights back - but only so far - with the unique advantage of standard adjustable pedals.

The Holden is even better off against the Kluger, which is $3000 more expensive yet misses out on even the option of side airbags and rear parking sensors and doesn't have electrotrickery such as traction or stability control in its armoury. The Kluger does get climate control, however, and standard cruise control, the latter surely a necessity in these days of speed cameras with virtually zero tolerance.

But you can see where Holden has cut costs in the Adventra to hit the price point. The rear storage compartments that line both sides of the more expensive CX6 and LX6 are missing, ditto the rear door pockets and the spring-out cup holders in the centre console.
There are only bumps instead of headrests in the second-row bench seat and even the little flipdoor at the rear of the centre bin has been deleted.

The problem is that dumbing down the Adventra's interior is a dangerous strategy, considering it is obviously based very much on the Commodore wagon and so lacks IQ anyway.

The Adventra is comfortable enough, has masses of space, a low loading height and a split tailgate. But comparing its interior with the Territory and Kluger is to shuttle between the 20th and 21st century. The transmission tunnel is a good example. Virtually unsighted in the Ford and Toyota, in the Adventra it severely impacts on the centre rear passenger's leg space.

There's some nostalgia in the drive as well, thanks to the performance of the new locally built V6, which sounds eerily like the hoarse old Ecotec unit it replaced in the VZ Commodore last year.

It shouldn't be so. At 3.6-litres, the Alloytec is slightly smaller than the 3.8-litre Ecotec, but in no other way is it inferior. Not forgetting a new fivespeed automatic rather than the clunky old fourspeed.

And yet, driving the Adventra is an all-too familiar experience. Smooth and quiet when cruising, once efforts are demanded, that harsh refrain surfaces.

Happily, through the noise Alloytec keeps delivering way beyond the point at which the old engine would have tied itself in knots. At 190 kW it is the most powerful engine here, and feels it when you get to 5000 rpm and beyond (peak power comes in at 6000 rpm). And you're going to find yourself up in that rev range a fair bit, which means the auto will rotate through the gears more than you would like as it chases torque to keep the Adventra's 1.9-tonne kerb weight moving along.

The Adventra is a fun drive on bitumen and gravel roads once the pace builds up. It has heavy but accurate steering (annoying mainly when parking), a competent ride on all but poor surfaces, low-profile 17-inch Bridgestone rubber and an all-wheel-drive system. All that is aided by the lowest centre of gravity here, which means less body roll. The downer is the brakes, which overheated after one tough mountainous run and never really inspired confidence.

Back in suburbia the heavy steering, five metre- plus length and big 11.9-metre turning circle work against the Adventra compared to both the Territory and the Kluger. The park distance sensors no longer seem like a luxury but a necessity.

For: Attractive price and generous equipment list, powerful V6 engine, dynamically competent.

Against: Looks and feels like a tarted-up Commodore wagon, heavy steering, new drivetrain not what it should be, lacks interior flexibility and thoughtfulness.Here (http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=9298&vf=2&bg=19&pp=0)

VX11SS
25-02-2005, 07:35 AM
My wife has the Toyota Highlander Limited (Kluger), which has side curtain airbags, stability control, EBD, Brake Assist, Leather etc, I gotta say I have been well impressed with this softroader.
The engine has about 172 Kws from 3.3 litres and although not fast in LS1 terms has given a shock to many normal cars (and some sport cars) at the lights, it has plenty of interior space and the normal Toyota reliability ie. in the year and 11000kms we have had the highlander weve had absolutely no problems with this vehicle.
I am not a Toyota fan in general (take em or leave em) but would recommend this vehicle to anyone in the market for a mid size soft roader.
Cheers jay

chevypower
25-02-2005, 08:31 AM
The Kluger has enough acceleration, but i wouldnt call it fast - i saw a guy in one who thought it was faster than it was, he tried to leave me behind in my automatic 94 Ford Laser, but i beat him - nothing to be proud of, just saying it's unboastable performance. If it's faster than your average car, then what's the average car?

VX11SS
25-02-2005, 10:17 AM
Fair enough jst meant that people seem to line it up thinking "slow old 4wd" and find out its not. Saying that depending on what magazine test you read the Highlander can do 0-100kays in between 8.1 and 8.8 secs, last thing I read on lasers off the top of my head they would have a hard time doing o-100 in under 9 and a bit secs
No flames intended
:) Jay

Swordie
25-02-2005, 12:50 PM
I wonder what the Adventra SX6 fuel consumption figures are?

paulvdb
25-02-2005, 03:17 PM
I wonder what the Adventra SX6 fuel consumption figures are?
It SHOULD be better than the Territory but no real guarantee. It's a bit over 100kg less than equivalent Territory. It's also got the 5 speed auto to help things. The lower torque may be an issue though, in ensuring that the car needs to be pushed a bit harder.

V82xist
25-02-2005, 03:59 PM
No offence to any Kluger owners but as a prerequisit for owning one don't you have to be able to take your teeth out and have most of your friends in nursing homes?

IMO - They would have to be the most boring looking vehicle on the road but that's what Toyota's designers excel at I suppose.

NODDY347
25-02-2005, 08:33 PM
No offence to any Kluger owners but as a prerequisit for owning one don't you have to be able to take your teeth out and have most of your friends in nursing homes?

IMO - They would have to be the most boring looking vehicle on the road but that's what Toyota's designers excel at I suppose.

Followed one home this afternoon :eek: , have to agree on all points.

Aus8
25-02-2005, 08:36 PM
To think Toyota are Australias most popular Car makers with dull designed cars. Imagine if they had a car that actually looked good!! They would be dominating even more with a good looking car plus there reliability and engineering reputation!

Aus8

Ghia351
25-02-2005, 09:41 PM
To think Toyota are Australias most popular Car makers with dull designed cars. Imagine if they had a car that actually looked good!! They would be dominating even more with a good looking car plus there reliability and engineering reputation!

Aus8

Behind Monash Uni Clayton (Vic) is the new Toyota Design Centre (it may even take on international work as well) with Ford's BA XR designer heading some it so I hate to say it but even this "design weak-point" could soon be fixed.

fester1
26-02-2005, 07:39 AM
To think Toyota are Australias most popular Car makers with dull designed cars. Imagine if they had a car that actually looked good!! They would be dominating even more with a good looking car plus there reliability and engineering reputation!

Aus8

Agree wholeheartedly with you there. Kruger, Camry, Avalon etc. - not ugly just dull. Yet sometimes they can get it right. My wife's got the current model RAV4 and I actually think that is one of the better looking baby 4wds.

GEN111LX8
26-02-2005, 08:23 AM
I'm still at a loss with Adventra's. I love mine to bits and while the fuel consumption is a worry I wouldn't change it.
To compare an Adventra to a Territory is one thing but you have to make sure you are comparing apples with apples. The top of the range Territory is the Ghia and its not that much different in price than an LX6 (or LX8 for that matter). But get in the cabin of either car it goes wihtout saying that the LX8/LX6 wins. Call me bias but I just feel that the Territory could have done alot more instead of being stuck with an interior that is still a Falcon/cab interior.

To many times have I seen a camparison of the Territory and Adventra but they continually use the middle (?) model.

VX11SS
26-02-2005, 12:00 PM
No offence to any Kluger owners but as a prerequisit for owning one don't you have to be able to take your teeth out and have most of your friends in nursing homes?

IMO - They would have to be the most boring looking vehicle on the road but that's what Toyota's designers excel at I suppose.

Fair enough, funny thing to me being that I reckon the Territory looks damn near identical when parked side by side with the Klugar - slightly differnt lights and grill and slightly altered rear.
Jay

chevypower
26-02-2005, 12:50 PM
Fair enough, funny thing to me being that I reckon the Territory looks damn near identical when parked side by side with the Klugar - slightly differnt lights and grill and slightly altered rear.
Jay

It's the same body style (SUV) so if what your saying is correct, the same thing could apply to all 4 door sedans.... They look identical side by side, but slightly different lights, grill and rear.. Heck that's it, no more facelifts in the future for Ford and Holden, the looks can't be improved at all once u got a basic body shape.

Swordie
26-02-2005, 02:51 PM
I don't Toyota would give a toss about most the negitive comments in this Forum, they sell plenty as it is.

Aus8
26-02-2005, 02:54 PM
I don't Toyota would give a toss about most the negitive comments in this Forum, they sell plenty as it is.

We are saying imagine their sales if the cars werent dullsville. They would be even more ahead of Ford and Holden than they are at the moment.

Ghia351
26-02-2005, 03:56 PM
We are saying imagine their sales if the cars werent dullsville. They would be even more ahead of Ford and Holden than they are at the moment.
Exactly, imagine Toyota's reknowned build quality, durabilty and reliablity coupled with XR looks and SS/HSV performance. They have the technical ability to build a superior V8 and only lack the current "good looks" that we see in our own favourite brands. Toyota's dominance will come in small steady steps, they don't want or chase giant leaps in market share around the world and they are more cashed up then most of their opposition COMBINED.

seldo
26-02-2005, 04:12 PM
Exactly, imagine Toyota's reknowned build quality, durabilty and reliablity coupled with XR looks and SS/HSV performance. They have the technical ability to build a superior V8 and only lack the current "good looks" that we see in our own favourite brands. Toyota's dominance will come in small steady steps, they don't want or chase giant leaps in market share around the world and they are more cashed up then most of their opposition COMBINED.
Exactly right. a mate of mine has a fleet of 20 Camrys as reps cars and they turn them over evry 250,000kms and literally never lay a spanner on them other than routine servicing. It's pretty good.

chevypower
26-02-2005, 07:16 PM
I just drove the new Land Rover Discovery3 V8 SE..... hmmmm all i can say is NIIIICCCEEE!!!! that thing is sooo smooth!, fuel economy freaks wouldnt like it it said it has averaged 23L/100km - admittedly its brand spanking new, and has only been thrashed around the streets of the inner CBD but still, i can see a lot of people going for the diesel - oh my point is, it didnt make me aspire to any of the three mentioned AWDs :-)

paulvdb
26-02-2005, 07:38 PM
I just drove the new Land Rover Discovery3 V8 SE..... hmmmm all i can say is NIIIICCCEEE!!!! that thing is sooo smooth!, fuel economy freaks wouldnt like it it said it has averaged 23L/100km - admittedly its brand spanking new, and has only been thrashed around the streets of the inner CBD but still, i can see a lot of people going for the diesel - oh my point is, it didnt make me aspire to any of the three mentioned AWDs :-)
Ummm.. There's a slight price difference for starters. That extra 20+ thousand bucks can be used for a lot of optioning on a Territory. The extra few thousand bucks a year on petrol could also prove useful on other things (like paying off houses, etc). I think that if Ford made a premium model above the Ghia and put the Turbo in (or a Boss somehow) then there'd be no real comparison for on-road use. Off-road is a different kettle of fish but that's not what's being compared.

chevypower
26-02-2005, 09:10 PM
come on... test driving is free... didn't even have to pay for the fuel! HAHAHA :-)