Info on the new Magna *interesting read*

[GTS_300_Coupe]

[ORIGINAL SOURCE GoAuto E-News]
[TAKEN FROM AUSTRALIAN FORD FORUMS]


Mitsubishi releases first details of its make-or-break Magna replacement
By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS

FIRST-RATE quality, an advanced V6 engine, improved transmissions, sophisticated suspension and a stiff body will help define Mitsubishi’s crucial new Magna replacement as a dedicated driver’s car.

This was the message Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (MMAL) delivered this week in the first of a series of briefings to be held in the run up to the sedan’s launch at the Australian International Motor Show in October.

While the new nameplate and a moniker for higherseries models (replacing Verada) are still to be confirmed, MMAL management stressed the $600 million it has invested in the car, codenamed PS41, would ensure it was far removed from its left-hand drive North American donor car, the Galant.

Indeed, 70 per cent of PS41 will be new and more than 2000 components unique to the Australian-made vehicle. This week’s briefi ng was held in conjunction with the opening of a new $40 million ‘AA Class Tandem Press Line’ which, as part of a wider $250m upgrade to Mitsubishi’s Tonsley Park assembly plant, is said to “guarantee” unprecedented levels of quality in an Australian vehicle.

According to Mitsubishi, the ability to stamp one-piece body side mouldings, and increased accuracy stemming from new manufacturing processes like Mitsubishi’s ‘Toy-Tab’ panel-fit system, will contribute to a significantly stronger, smoother, quieter and more refined car, and one which is also easier to enter and egress.

“Our mandate is to have our new car be the best-quality car ever built in Australia,” said MMAL President and CEO, Tom Phillips.
The new processes will make for a stiffer body – thought to be almost double that of the current Magna – which in turn will aid handling, ride and refinement qualities to the point where MMAL insists the PS41 will lead all locally produced vehicles in these areas. And most imports, too.

This, in turn, fits neatly with findings from the largest market research campaign Mitsubishi has ever undertaken in Australia, which indicates that Australian family car buyers now consider sportiness and power to be prime
purchase considerations.
To that end, the PS41 will use a variation of Mitsubishi’s venerable 3.8-litre 24-valve V6 engine that – backed by the company’s MIVEC variable valve technology and a new-generation Bosch engine management system
– should boost power and torque to around 192kW and 335Nm respectively, as well as improve emissions and driveability.
MMAL’s General Manager for Research and Development, Lee Kernich, said the company took the opportunity to improve the V6 – to be built in Japan – as it had to be re-engineered to meet the relevant Australian Design Rules.

It has been calibrated “to suit Australian drivers”, and is part of what Mr Kernich referred to as “control tuning” and “optimising” of the entire PS41
drivetrain, including the drive-by-wire accelerator pedal and wheel/tyre
combinations.
A smoother, less-intrusive traction control system will also form part of the package, while Mr Kernich added further that the engine management system would be compatible with a turbocharger.
He stopped short of saying there were plans for such a model, but take it as read that one is at least on the drawing board.

Harnessing all this is an upgraded five-speed automatic transmission with a Tiptronic-style shift and a new control unit featuring driver-adaptive hardware for increased response and greater efficiency.
A manual gearbox, believed to be a six-speed unit, will further enhance the PS41’s driver-orientated credentials.
Questioned on possible enthusiast driver resistance to the car’s continuing front-wheel drive set-up, Mr Kernich pointed to research indicating 70 per cent of large-car buyers did not consider front-drive a disadvantage. Toyota could also attest to this with the success of its Camry Sportivo.

All-wheel drive variants have been ruled out for now. A strut-based front suspension design with a flat fabricated cross-member and low-mounted steering rack, and a similarly placed multi-link arrangement in the rear,
are expected to reduce road noise as well as boot-space intrusion.
Ultimately, “excellent roll control, flat cornering feel and European handling characteristics” are all promised for the PS41.

Body rigidity, already stiffened by the single-piece stamping system, will
be bolstered by extra body bracing between the front suspension strut towers
and rear-seat bracing – meaning the new car, like the current Magna, will
eschew a split-fold rear seat.
According to Mr Kernich, incorporating a split-fold mechanism compromises body strength and rigidity. However, he did indicate that a larger aperture than the Magna’s ski-port opening should be available.

Braking will be by 16-inch ventilated discs up-front and 16-inch gridventilated
discs at the rear, the latter a preferred option over the 14-inch solids used on the US Galant.
It seems Mitsubishi has run out of time and resources to develop 17-inch wheels for the PS41, which must comply with the company’s extensive year-long wheel-testing regime before being signed off for production.
Far from being a hindrance to the Australian team, the US Galant platform has provided substantial economies of scale in various development and engineering areas.

“If we had to start with a clean sheet of paper we’d still pretty much end up with the vehicle we have now,” Mr Kernich said.
The first Australian prototype PS41 in right-hand drive form was developed in September 2003 and was tested extensively here, in Europe (mostly Germany) and Japan.
Around August last year, the fi rst off-tool-parts prototype arrived.
The car is now in the trial production phase, and will again repeat the vigorous testing leading up to Job Number One (to borrow a Ford phrase)
in September.
Confirmation of the car’s name is expected next month, ahead of the
unveiling of the PS41’s locally adapted exterior styling which should carry
greater differentiation than ever between the main car and higher-series
model.

------------------------

What do you guys reckon? All I can say is... BLOODY BUM DRAGGING FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS!!! :bash:

[Danv8]

"Questioned on possible enthusiast driver resistance to the car’s continuing front-wheel drive set-up, Mr Kernich pointed to research indicating 70 per cent of large-car buyers did not consider front-drive a disadvantage"

Who have they surveyed! the lawn bowls club?! More like they made their own statistic due to majority of cars sold here are mainly FWD.
Bah sure FWD is fine but jesus J and H christ! "enthusiast drivers" would prefer RWD and AWD right?

They should give us a survey i'll give them an answer. I'd have a subaru AWD over a Mitsubishi any day of the week, month, year, century. :lol:

[RICHO]

Must admit I like the "First Rate Quality" comment....

Surely that type of assessment has to wait until cars have been produced??

[lx_torana]

i think they mean 70% of people who drive their Magna enthusiasticly dont have a problem with Fwd :lol:

[Danv8]

Must admit I like the "First Rate Quality" comment....

Surely that type of assessment has to wait until cars have been produced??

Yup it seems to be the horse before the cart or is that cart before the horse.
Even in the US their Galant (next mitsu for here) has been rated rather average. I think that MMAL is being over confident can be a dangerous thing as if it falls on its face MMAL is going to have egg on their face.

They should of shot the designer of the latest Magna I wouldn't even launch a car that looks like that in the front. :lol:

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Personally I dont see this as a new threat.
By the time this new platform magna hits our streets, the new Falcon and VE Commodore will be out and that will be better competition.

I think Mitsubishi of Australia need to realise if they want to compete with Holden or Ford, they are going to need a RWD platform and possibly a V8 option.

[clixanup]

Funny website:

http://www.mitsubishisucks.com/

And that Tom Phillips guy (the CEO) in the ads is really annoying.

[Elliott Goblet] If you can find a better built better backed car anywhere, then buy it... [/Elliott Goblet]

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Funny website:

http://www.mitsubishisucks.com/

And that Tom Phillips guy (the CEO) in the ads is really annoying.

[Elliott Goblet] If you can find a better built better backed car anywhere, then buy it... [/Elliott Goblet]

That website is hilarious!
Yeah I think their new better built, better backed campaign is a load of rubbish.
"If you can find a better built better backed car anywhere, then buy it..." hahahah Ok then I will. *goes out to buy an SS commodore. :lol:

[Evil LS1]

Wow 400mm front discs and 350mm rear discs. Those 21" rims will look sweeeet.
:lol:

[RICHO]

So much has been made of the warranty on magna. But I love the fine print...the 10 year powertrain warranty does not tranfer with vehicle ownership!!

So it's only as good as for the first owner of the car which given most magnas are fleet vehicles means it's good for between 2-3 years. Which coincidentally is about the same as the warranties from any other manufacturer.

Better Built....maybe.....Better backed....give me a break!!

[Ryzz]

Im going to reserve my comments on this for when its launched. Think of it this way, for a company such as MMAL to go out on a limb and say what they are saying (from the CEO as well) then they obviously feel they have the product to back it up.

I agree FWD is not my preference of drivetrain, and i think 99% of the people on this site will agree on that. However they obviously feel that their target market will accept it.

Whats more interesting is the Read between the lines reference regarding the Turbo charged motor. It seems Ford have set a presence for turbo charged family sedans (V6/Straight 6/etc). We saw the Torana at the motor show with the TT HFV6, Ford already has the XR6T, now MMAL is hinting of bringing a product into the mix as well - althought they would have to combat any torque steer from the turbo if its going to be FWD.

[paulvdb]

Whats more interesting is the Read between the lines reference regarding the Turbo charged motor. It seems Ford have set a presence for turbo charged family sedans (V6/Straight 6/etc). We saw the Torana at the motor show with the TT HFV6, Ford already has the XR6T, now MMAL is hinting of bringing a product into the mix as well - althought they would have to combat any torque steer from the turbo if its going to be FWD.
Toyota have also mentioned Turbo as an option for the Camry. Given that neither the Galant nor Camry platform have AWD capability then the Turbo option sounds a bit like the first MX6 Turbo. Press the accelerator to change lanes.

I think that MMAL are living in fairy-land. They must only be asking existing owners, or South Australians (given their location - not a real criticism of SA). The majority of drivers live in Sydney and Melbourne so they need to survey the right people and build a car that's OK in city traffic, not just on freeways.

[Ryzz]

Toyota have also mentioned Turbo as an option for the Camry.
What happened to the Short lived Turbo Corolla they released, i think it was a Limited Edition/Special Edition/etc.



Given that neither the Galant nor Camry platform have AWD capability then the Turbo option sounds a bit like the first MX6 Turbo. Press the accelerator to change lanes.
What about the Magna AWD Drivetrain, this would be well suited for the turbo motor, however i dont know if they are putting the turbo into the AWD.

[Nursing_Mother]

I just hope the new model does well so all the employee's keep they're jobs.Adealide is not an easy place to get work.

[paulvdb]

What about the Magna AWD Drivetrain, this would be well suited for the turbo motor, however i dont know if they are putting the turbo into the AWD.
The new car has a completely different drivetrain. AWD is not an option at this stage, as has been noted in a few articles. I think this is an extremely short-sighted decision at MMAL.

[Swordie]

I hope they do well with their new release too. South Australia and Australia needs them to survive locally. There are many component manufacturers locally who sell to Ford and Holden that rely on their business.

Mitsubishi has built some good cars in the past like the EVO, Pajero and Mirage.

[VX2VESS]

they'd sell a lot more if it was RWD and had a v8 option

[Phido]

The new car is extremely disapointing, who ever thinks the Australian market is going to be set alight by a Galant is nuts.

It wouldn't have been so bad if:
-AWD was supported from the get go
-Turbo was supported from the get go
-Had a nice stylish design

No! none of that. I would rather a current body with the 3.8L engine in a AWD config and a new front.

They needed a RWD version of the galant.. Or atleast AWD..

Mitsubishi is really going to go down the sink hole with this one. Unless its better (significantly so) than a Honda Accord euro (doubt it) or has some amazing gizmo that blows all current FWD vechicals out of the market they will close with in 5 years.

[Ricko]

Mitsu are currently offering the 3.5 magna with supercharging ( as a dealer fit option) giving about 225kw, wouldn't be too bad a thing in an AWD model.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Traction and Control abilities are questionable when lots of power is being transferred to the front wheels in a large family sedan.

I can see it now, turbocharged V6 FWD large car... that arse is gonna be all over the shop!

[Swordie]

I wonder if there is a power limit on front wheel drives due to torque steer.

[Ryzz]

The new car is extremely disapointing, who ever thinks the Australian market is going to be set alight by a Galant is nuts.

It wouldn't have been so bad if:
-AWD was supported from the get go
-Turbo was supported from the get go
-Had a nice stylish design

No! none of that. I would rather a current body with the 3.8L engine in a AWD config and a new front.

They needed a RWD version of the galant.. Or atleast AWD..

Mitsubishi is really going to go down the sink hole with this one. Unless its better (significantly so) than a Honda Accord euro (doubt it) or has some amazing gizmo that blows all current FWD vechicals out of the market they will close with in 5 years.

All that is a fair call, however think of it this way. The people behind MMAL know there job is on the line, the company in Australia is on the line, etc. I dont think they will be taking a gamble with the new model. Sit back, wait and watch. I find it hard to believe that no-one inside MMAL to be taking a gamble, every decision they make is going to be based upon research and evidence, everyone knows how much they have ridding on this one!!

[Ghia351]

Must admit I like the "First Rate Quality" comment....

Surely that type of assessment has to wait until cars have been produced??

Although you will never get it officially stated by any of the big Aussie four and we don't have anything like the JD Powers survey in the US, Mitsubishi and Toyota (in Australia) have consistantly lower warranty claims on their cars then both Ford or Holden and a consistantly higher build quality even allowing for sales numbers.

[BLACK 346]

Although you will never get it officially stated by any of the big Aussie four and we don't have anything like the JD Powers survey in the US, Mitsubishi and Toyota (in Australia) have consistantly lower warranty claims on their cars then both Ford or Holden and a consistantly higher build quality even allowing for sales numbers.

I would believe that. I have owned 3 of the 4 makes
and my Holden stands out like the dogs proverbials
as the biggest failure when it comes to warranty claims.
As I said in another thread though, Holden did look
after us pretty well. Would have preferred the Toyota/
Mitsu reliability from the start though as I really hate
unreliable cars.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

If what they are saying about their car is true then I am a little excited at another performance sedan coming onto the market.
I think the main reason they have bailed on the AWD system is because I dont think its selling that well. I dont know about you but I havent seen too many magnas getting about with the little AWD badges hanging off the back.
As for the survey I wouldnt be surprised if it was true that 70% of people "don't think its a disadvantage". The survey didnt ask people what was a better setup they just asked if it was a disadvantage, and well the general public dont really care which wheels are turning they only care if the car moves forward or not. But in saying that trying to sell it as a performance car with FWD may hurt the company as people that generally buy performance cars have a little knowledge on whats good and whats bad and performance mags are gonna have a field day if that power cant be put to good use.
FWD 3.8L V6 turbo is gonna be one scary mother of a car. I think the reason why they haven't confirmed the turbo is that I dont think they've worked out how the FWD system is gonna cope with all that extra torque and power.

[muzza]

Having driven various Magnas and (barge-arse) Camrys I think there are a couple of things they are really good at - NVH refinement - smooth donks that like to rev - and reliability.

Dont forget MMAL produced the FIRST AWD locally made sedan, and they are bloody good. On minimal budget they converted the local car and adapted the Japanese Diamante RWD bits to suit. Take one for a spin if you get the chance - ignoring the lack of outright grunt, they are amazing.

Even as a FWD the Magna Sports series are impressive handling devices with a sweet engine, esp as a manual.

In the wet, well so much grunt through the front wheels isn't real pleasant. I'd much rather RWD or AWD when it rains.
The torque steer of the 3.5's might catch a novice unawares buy they wont do anything nasty and you get used to it pretty quickly.

Full points to Mitsu for upgrading the engine, it should be a beauty. They've ditched that idiot french stylist who f@cked the current Magna nose and hopefully the newie will look better than the Yank one.

No points to Mitsu for not concurrently developing the AWD version - very dumb move, and wont win friends in the performance enthusiast field.

Ignoring the PR blather I too would expect the new car to be nearly as good as they say - time and again the Adelaide engineers have proven ability to produce smart solutions with small budgets. Hopefully for Aussie car owners we are all in for a bit of a surprise.

[paul05]

but it's a MAGNA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Phido]

All that is a fair call, however think of it this way. The people behind MMAL know there job is on the line, the company in Australia is on the line, etc. I dont think they will be taking a gamble with the new model.

Yes, but MMAL gets dictated alot of things from head office. They can only do so much. I'm sure all the Australian influence on the Galant will be positive. But at the end of the day your looking at the Toyota Avalon all over again. If they were building refrigerators or something, that would be fine, but these are cars.

Cars are the most personal, important, showy, expensive consumer item people buy.

People will get what they want, and I personally don't think there are enough people who want what MMAL is offering here to keep them in business.

That said if they made a Galant Sport with:
-17 or 18" wheels of a nice design
-larger brakes front (16" refers to the wheel size for those brakes ~300mm disc)
-Turbo 3.8 with ~220 Kw..
-ESP, CBC, EBD, etc One hell of a traction control system
-Xenon/LED lights
-8 way electric sport seats
-6 Speed manual
-LSD and sports suspension(really sorted)
-Nice tasteful leather interior with real ambiance
-A BA like Colour TFT with dual zone aircon and nice audio
-awesome refinement, reliability, quality and design
-awesome economy and resale
-priced at $28,990

I might be interested in one. If it was AWD I would definately be interested.

[my_Berlina]

[ORIGINAL SOURCE GoAuto E-News]
[TAKEN FROM AUSTRALIAN FORD FORUMS]


Questioned on possible enthusiast driver resistance to the car’s continuing front-wheel drive set-up, Mr Kernich pointed to research indicating 70 per cent of large-car buyers did not consider front-drive a disadvantage. Toyota could also attest to this with the success of its Camry Sportivo.



This guy should be in politics, when asked about 'enthusiast drivers' (10-20% maybe) he answers a completely different question - '70 per cent of large-car buyers did not consider front-drive a disadvantage'.

Is this just a polite way of saying, enthusiasts are only a small part of the market so we don't care what they think?

They seem to forget that many less car focused people will ask their enthusiast mate's advice because they know we care and read all the magazines (written by enthusiasts).

Further more, what fraction of that 70% don't realise that the reason a particular car feels 'funkey' when cornering is because it is front wheel drive.

I would be a real shame to loose another local manufacturer, but if they arn't looking carefully at what the survey actually tells them they could be in deep doo-doo.

[VX SS S2]

Personally I dont see this as a new threat.
By the time this new platform magna hits our streets, the new Falcon and VE Commodore will be out and that will be better competition.

I think Mitsubishi of Australia need to realise if they want to compete with Holden or Ford, they are going to need a RWD platform and possibly a V8 option.


On the same train of thought... and this may totally miss the mark but... what has stopped Toyota from revising the already pretty good 4.0 Ltr V8's they used in the Soarers and putting them in a RWD platform of the Camry...? :confused:

[nols1yet]

I gotta say, as a driver of a Magna, i rekcon a few of the critiscisms of the magna past and futreu are slightly unfounded. From the looks of all these reports, mitsui are still aiming their cars at the majority of car buyers, whoe strangely are not performance heads, but people who just wanna get from Point A to Point B. And honesty, for this task FWD will do the job no worse and no better than a RWD car. Its only once you start trying to push the car to its limits that you start to get people with their preferences for either type.


Granted this is a V8 performance forum, but I dont really think mitsui are gonna be really trying hard to win over the performance crowd just yet, more likely to try and keep their head above water, and then build on the base of success that the new car brings to bring out more perf oriented models.

[IMTORQINGSS]

Front wheel drive is s#@t. I think their designers have sh*t btw their ears as they have not changed over the years. Give me a magna with AWD or atleast Rear wheel drive. A manual not this tiptronic crap. Aggressive looking front end like the outlander plus a decent body kit (I'll admit the VRX's have caught my eye occasionally) and I'd think about it maybe. Add a hairdryer, sports system, Holden quality looking 17inch alloys atleast and then maybe.

I'm 28 so I'm no young C$#k going off but the Magna is about as appealling as a night out at the bowls club. Their street cred is crap :lol: and need to move from the target specific geriatric buyer.

ANYONE FROM MITSUBISHI READING THIS CAN CONTACT ME AND I WILL ASSIST IN POINTING YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AS WILL MOST OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WHO BUY NEW CARS!!!!!!

A V8 will never happen so we should give up :bash: .

I was going to buy a V6 Sportivo but was turned off by the front wheel drive and went with a beautiful second hand SS. I never turned back with regret....

[nols1yet]

I'm sure that any Mitsui head honchos are gonna take your tirade right on board as soon as possible...


While RWD/AWD is the superior system for sports vehicles, i think its a bit much to say that FWD is sh!t. Just have a look at Motors PCOTY, a FWDer came in 6th....directly behind the LS2 Clubbie. Not to say that mean that FWS is fanTASTIC, but with the proper setup and layout they are not as horrible as can be assumed from ignorant bashers.

[VY Sandman]

I just hope the new model does well so all the employee's keep they're jobs.Adealide is not an easy place to get work.


I do too; that plant has a lot of history going back to the old Chrysler Australia days (as evident by the Mitsubishi ads).

However, Adelaide's on par with Australia-wide employment levels these days, which are their lowest in 30 years.

Adelaide might not be an easy place to get work in the auto industry as there are only two factories and their at opposite ends of town. Having said that, it would have to be a lot easier to get auto-production work here than in say, Sydney, Brisbane or Perth as no other Aussies cities except Melbourne have full-scale auto production on their list of attributes!

Back on track, I hope the Galant does well, but they've got to change the name. The Galant has already been two DIFFERENT ranges of cars here; the 1970's Chrysler Galant then the 1990's Mitsubishi Galant. All fine cars, but re-hashing an old name only works if it's revered and remembered with a tear in the eye a'la Monaro, GT, GTS, Mustang blah blah.

Hell, we've now had THREE seperate cars called Colt. They could have stuck a new badge on the latest one, seriously.

My suggestions for new Galant include:

Mitsubishi Cardigan
Mitsubishi Loungemonger
Mitsubishi Lonsdale (named after the much-loved Sigma that was exported to the UK)
Mitsubishi Acc6 (homage to two popular medium-sized FWD sporty sedans that actually sell well, the Accord Euro and the Mazda 6)

and my personal favourite

Mitsubishi Kamakazi

Coz that still seems to be what they're doing.

Word.

[Black_SV8]

I brought a 04 Magna VRX of the wife 6 months ago before buying it I wouldn`t look at one let alone drive one. The dealer were I brought my SV8
gave an 03 magna to drive wil my Sv8 was being finished for delivery.
At first I was not impressed at the choice of loan car he give me. but by the time i drove the thing home I was impressed, the magna was the bottom of the range.Don`t ask me what model who cares, but it had climate, cruise, electric windows & seat all standard. drove good went pretty good for what it was. mind you it was butt ugly.Over the next week the wife drove it & really like it.
So when it came time for the SV8 to be picked up the magna had won her over. At the dealer had a VRX which was lowered in silver, leather, 6 stacker, climate, all the fruit.GET THIS the thing was retail 47k on the road. NOW F#*k 47k thats SS MONEY. By the time the sales guy caught me running of my car the VRX was down to 36k on the road. A bit more talking it was down to 33k on the road. Hell 14k off retail they really can`t sell these things can they. but the wife like it so we brought it. We Traded her 03 VY supercharged S with all the stuff on it the really uncomfortable leather seats,
17in HBD wheels, lowered really nice car.
Heres the thing, the Magna is a better car then the VY. it go as well, the motor revs oh so smooth, 167 kws is not bad, the VY was what 150 something, the supercharged was 171kws of harshness, the 5 spd auto is great, the overall ride is good,
not great, but better then our VY S was. the thing does torque steer up the road on a hard launch, but so does the mazda 6 slug. Bloody good on fuel.the build quality is as good as holden or a ford. I drive alot of Mazda 6s, the luxury pack is 47k, the magna walks all over it in all areas. These cars are NOT as bad as you all say, Yes the standard run of the mill magna front is Butt ass ugly. One of the uglyest australian made front, right up there with the AU.
Also more people stop me in the street & say how great the VRX looks. Double the amount I get with SV8 ( my SV8 is not a standard ugly one ether)

look don`t get me wrong I`m a holden fan, most of the cars I`ve owned have been holdens. But don`t knock the magna the thing will ever be a V8 RWD car but it is a bloody good car as it is as good the V6 holdens & fords are.
Just a bloody shame they stuffed the front end.

Ps One thing I do hate about the Magna is NO stereo buttons on the steering wheel.

[VYBerlinaV8]

I've had several members of my family and extended family own Magnas, and there's 2 things that really stand out to me:

1) Gearboxes - EVERYONE I know who's had one has had gearbox trouble.
2) Resale - it sucks. The end.

What this car is good for is buying as a second hand cheapie. They go for mid to high twenties new, so second hand you can get an ok one for low teens that only 2-3 years old, with average kilometres. Anyone buying these new stands to take a big hit. When we buy a specialist/performance car, we take a risk on losing value because our car may not be in demand as a second hand vehicle, but for a standard family/fleet hack, that sort of depreciation is not really acceptable to me.

As for the mechanical troubles, I, like many here, loathe unreliable cars. If I had even a quarter of the mechancial problems with my Berlina that some on this forum have had, the car would be gone, and I would never buy another Holden again. Ever. So unfortunately for MMAL, I'll never be fronting up to purchase a Magna.

[Ghia351]

The biggest problem I see for the new Magna replacement is that it needs to regain all the fleet sales it has lost to maintain any chance of success. Fleet buyers like good resale value (apart from running costs and reliability) and that has sunk so low during the current model. Great sales incentives (often huge discounting) only hurts you at the trade-in time. Unless Mitsubishi comes up with some guaranteed buy back deals or some other forms of sweeteners to drag back the fleet buyers how they regain the fleet market coupled with a better looking car which might also increase private buyers will be the real test for the new car. You don't need a high performance &/or RWD range because Mitsubishi were successful in the past and they never had one. Their export problems have hurt them, troubled parent company finances including Daimler-Benz Chrysler dropping Mitsubishi Japan like a hot potatoe. They have always built good cars with probably more "character" then Toyota, rumours of closing down and their own version of an enforced AU design drama have hurt them much more. It took a similar live or die drama to create the BA so I can't see why the "automotive brothers & sisters" in SA can't do the same.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

I remember not so long ago talking to a dealer about the "new" shape back then coming out, which is the current shape now, and he was talking about how they were going to sell RWD magnas with chrysler V8's in them. At the time I thought about bloody time, now there's going to be a bit more choice in what I can buy. There was also talk of Mitsubishi enetring V8 supercars as well, and this was backed up by a few magazine articles that I read only a few weeks after the dealer told me. But it didnt take long before the plans got scraped and then the talk of Mitsubishi going under started coming up.
Mitsubishi were, in my opinion, on to a good thing releasing a V8 and entering V8 supercars. But I think there may have been overseas influence that may have put that idea down the gurgler.
Its almost Mazda all over again and I think Mitsubishi Japan is trying for the same style of damage control by selling conservative and dull cars to appeal to the safe market, just like Mazda did. Here's to a new generation of boring cars that even our mate Scrubby would like.
But in saying that I wouldnt discount a V8 RWD magna just yet, might take some time but I think it will arrive some day.

[IMTORQINGSS]

I would welcome a Magna V8 supercar anytime. When I said in my previous reply that front wheel is S$#t it was not a ignorant comment. Look at all of the best cars in the world. Do you see a front wheel drive Ferrari Enzo. NO. Do you see a front wheel car in V8 Supercars NO, Formula 1 NO, Toca Touring car's may have them but their alot smaller. Front wheel drive is not that crash hot/practicle on a Larger Sedan or Wagon.

I owned a front wheel drive car 2002 SR Laser (Mazda Sp23) and was pretty happy with it for what it was, it was good in the wet but used to get torque steer, But let's be sensible I would have loved it more in RWD.

Front wheel drive does not rate a mention with rear wheel drive or AWD. The best cars in the world are RWD or AWD.

If Mitsubishi gave customers the choice of what type of drive train they would want, I think they would be suprised :confused: .

If Mitsubishi do not continue to roll with the punches and open the door to a larger target group(Ie sports car market 6cyl or above) then they will go under in Australia (atleast).

How about an AWD or RWD Mitsubishi VRX with a V6 Turbo engine as an option to tackle the Ls2 or Ford XR6 turbo :D especially now with such quality construction :lol: .

At this particular point in time I don't even look at Mitsubshi for anything larger than a Lancer. I suppose they may start looking good in my late 40's early 50's (If there still around) :booty: .

So if you wanna bring some stats for front wheel cars then go ahead but we all know that with front wheel drive you have to be kidding.

[Dickie Knee]

Is this the new Magna / Galant ?? :)

http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Dickie%20knee/Mitsubishi/MITSUBISHI2.jpg

[VX11SS]

I would welcome a Magna V8 supercar anytime. When I said in my previous reply that front wheel is S$#t it was not a ignorant comment. Look at all of the best cars in the world. Do you see a front wheel drive Ferrari Enzo. NO. Do you see a front wheel car in V8 Supercars NO, Formula 1 NO, Toca Touring car's may have them but their alot smaller. Front wheel drive is not that crash hot/practicle on a Larger Sedan or Wagon.

I owned a front wheel drive car 2002 SR Laser (Mazda Sp23) and was pretty happy with it for what it was, it was good in the wet but used to get torque steer, But let's be sensible I would have loved it more in RWD.

Front wheel drive does not rate a mention with rear wheel drive or AWD. The best cars in the world are RWD or AWD.

If Mitsubishi gave customers the choice of what type of drive train they would want, I think they would be suprised :confused: .

If Mitsubishi do not continue to roll with the punches and open the door to a larger target group(Ie sports car market 6cyl or above) then they will go under in Australia (atleast).

How about an AWD or RWD Mitsubishi VRX with a V6 Turbo engine as an option to tackle the Ls2 or Ford XR6 turbo :D especially now with such quality construction :lol: .

At this particular point in time I don't even look at Mitsubshi for anything larger than a Lancer. I suppose they may start looking good in my late 40's early 50's (If there still around) :booty: .

So if you wanna bring some stats for front wheel cars then go ahead but we all know that with front wheel drive you have to be kidding.

What are u on, why compare a mitzi to these cars? the most profitable car maker in the world is >>>> Toyota, how many rear wheel drives do they make and export? OZ and NZ are peculiar in that we like/have mid - large size family sedans with RWD.
Please show me all the other countries where this is the case, in europe and the US fwd is popular due to the annual snow falls (you ever tried to drive a remotely powerful rwd in snow? its near F****** impossible). Fwd is also considered safer for the "average driver" as they are usually set up to slightly understeer which is easy for most people to correct than when the rear end decides to come a calling on you when you pressed on that bit hard. There is no doubt that rwd for a serious perfomance car is better but for ave family hack fwd is better with more internal space and less problems with gravel, rain etc and is Cheaper to manufacture.
Jay

[nols1yet]

umm, IMTORQINGSS, you dont see FWD Ferraris etc cos there are NO FWD cars that try and pass themselves off as hardcore sports cars, most are are made for family buyers who dont need the sports balance of a RWD car. Your comparison is totally ridiculous, sorry.

[Phido]

The problem with mangas not just they are FWD its also:
-Resale. Walk past a Mitsubishi dealer and they will knock $10k off RRP just for walking by. God know why they even have a RRP when V6 Sports can go from $27k to $38k depending which mitsubishi ad your looking at. Its insane.
-Manga name. Its a name that has been around for a while. Mitsubishi did make some pretty shocking magnas long ago, thats going to be enough to put some off.
-But ugly styling, The Commodore turned into a magna and the magna turned into a AU falcon, and the Falcon turned into sex on wheels (atleast in comparison to the AU).
-Dated platform (its comming to the end of its time) against the BA and the all conquoring VT-VZ shape and Toyota released a new Camry.

V6 sports, VR-X, Ralliart Magna, AWD Manga were all big steps in the right direction. Chosing between a previous gen Camry and Manga, I would have choosen the Manga for sure. But the Veradas never came close to Calais/Ghia levels, the basic cars had wild resale, and the rest of the range was a snooze zone.

[MIC33R]

Is this the new Magna / Galant ?? :)



Hopefully.

It looks kind of like a V35 Skyline actually (Infinity G35 in the US). It's a bit hard to tell with what they've given us though.

[Swordie]

The Magna is recommend here as a good secondhand buy. Its in company of VX, AUIII, CV8

http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,12355846%255E21822,00.html

[Nawdy]

First up, I think MMAL need to deal with the Magna name, and all the baggage it now carries with it. It going to need some good marketing to get over this hurdle, which leads me to my second point,

The decision not to particpate in V8 Supercar racing is a bad move IMHO. The old addage "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" may not be as relevant today as it was in the past, but would still be a solid marketing tool. MMAL promotes itself as one of the Australian three car manufacturers yet doesn't take part in this most Australian of motorsports.... don't forget, most buyers make a connection between what they see racing on TV and what they themselves drive on the street.

[Swordie]

If there was Magna V8 it would be probably very hard for them to enter V8 Supercar. My understanding its a brand that's built on Holden and Ford, now it's successful I'm not sure Holden and Ford would want to let them. I think the compitiion is a business with franchise owners.

I would like to see more Australian production car racing, maybe the Magna 6 could be race in this.

[SSFreak]

I read some time ago that Toyota were keen on getting into the V8 Supercar series. Mitsubishi Aust. apparently were too but they couldn't afford the associated costs. Also read that Ford and Holden threatened to walk away if any new brands were introduced. Don't know how true all this is.

[narkus2]

That picture is not the magna replacement. Its the 2006 Eclipse. Same 193kw 6spd FWD combo thats going into the magna replacement.

2006 Eclipse (http://www.mitsubishicars.com/06eclipse/)

And for the record, the car doesent have a name yet, its not even Galant. The name will be unveiled later this month, as the 8 part promotion begins.

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

If there was Magna V8 it would be probably very hard for them to enter V8 Supercar. My understanding its a brand that's built on Holden and Ford, now it's successful I'm not sure Holden and Ford would want to let them. I think the compitiion is a business with franchise owners.

I would like to see more Australian production car racing, maybe the Magna 6 could be race in this.

From what I understand of the V8 supercars I thought that the main basis of being able to enter a car was that it had to be a production car with a pushrod V8. I think thats why the BA's arent using the BOSS engines cause it doesnt qualify.

[Ricko]

From what I understand of the V8 supercars I thought that the main basis of being able to enter a car was that it had to be a production car with a pushrod V8. I think thats why the BA's arent using the BOSS engines cause it doesnt qualify.

Yes, pushrod V8 and RWD, Toyota Oz was very interested but, dont have the right engine or platform.

[exploder]

Yes, pushrod V8 and RWD, Toyota Oz was very interested but, dont have the right engine or platform.


Well the engines aren't an issue, Ford and Holden both use non road car engines loosely based on 5.0l Nascar style motors, and to that end Toyota run a pushrod motor in the Nascar truck series, and Mitsubishi should be able to source one from the parent company, ie a Dodge motor from Nascar.

The rest of the car driveline is standard between the two makes, as long as the aero kit doesn't provide an advantage should be no prob.

The issue will always be, Holden and Ford have dumped tons of cash into the series to make it succesful and gain the benefits from a marketing point, why would either of them let Mitsubishi or Toyota waltz in now and garner any type of benefit from their efforts?

[Ricko]

Type: Toyota NASCAR V8
Displacement: 358 Cu. In.
Power: 650 BHP
b>Induction: Normally Aspirated with 390 cfm Carburetor
Bore: 4.185 Inches
Stroke: 3.250 Inches
Compression Ratio: 12.0:1
Engine Design: Toyota Racing Development, (TRD) U.S.A., Inc.
Fuel: Sunoco Racing Gasoline
Fuel Pump: TRD, U.S.A.
Exhaust: TRD U.S.A.


They are nearer 5.9litres, and as i said Toyota Australia cannot afford it, sure they may be able to get the stuff, but without approval from Toyotas World HQ, it wont happen, and they wouldn't spend that kind of money in a small market like Australia. Especially when they already sell plenty of cars here without that kind of advertising.

[Growler]

If there is to be a third manufacturer it V8 supercars it will probably be Toyota. Not only can they afford it (they have one of the largest advertising budgets for any manufacturer in Australia) there is apparently allot of interest from within the company as well. As for Toyota HQ in Japan their ultimate aim is to topple GM as the worlds number one manufacturer. With the Supercars going to New Zealand, China and other OS destinations possibly being added, it has more significance for Toyota than will they sell more cars in Australia. Tony Cochrane has already expressed interest in a third manufacturer joining the series but with the amount of time and money Holden/Ford have invested and the influence they both have over the series I can't see a third company joining in the short term.

[exploder]

Type: Toyota NASCAR V8
Displacement: 358 Cu. In.
Power: 650 BHP
b>Induction: Normally Aspirated with 390 cfm Carburetor
Bore: 4.185 Inches
Stroke: 3.250 Inches
Compression Ratio: 12.0:1
Engine Design: Toyota Racing Development, (TRD) U.S.A., Inc.
Fuel: Sunoco Racing Gasoline
Fuel Pump: TRD, U.S.A.
Exhaust: TRD U.S.A.


They are nearer 5.9litres, and as i said Toyota Australia cannot afford it, sure they may be able to get the stuff, but without approval from Toyotas World HQ, it wont happen, and they wouldn't spend that kind of money in a small market like Australia. Especially when they already sell plenty of cars here without that kind of advertising.

Different crank will fix the displacement issue, considering each race engine is hand built its not an issue, Its all moot though because Holden and Ford won't let it happen.

[Nawdy]

I don't think the engine and running gear would be an issue for Toyota to enter V8 Supercars - the mechanicals in both Holden and Ford entrants are very similar anyway thanks to parity ruling.

With V8 Supercar racing going international, I think both Holden and Ford are going to find it harder to resist letting other manufacturers (such as Toyota and Mitsu) enter V8 racing as it's appeal spreads beyond our shores.

Interesting times ahead methinks - and adding a bit of variety wouldn't be such a bad thing, would it?

[Ricko]

I think the variety would be great, but cannot see it happening...but not because Ford or Holden dont want it.

Both Holden and Ford have products in Oz that are seen as being similar to what goes around a V8 Supercar track. Even though we know better, stacks of people still think an SS or an XR8 is much the same as what is being raced on Sunday. Toyota do not have such a product here in OZ, and even the worlds most stupid person would not think Avalon and V8 Supercar in the same sentence.

[exploder]

I think the variety would be great, but cannot see it happening...but not because Ford or Holden dont want it.


I think your missing the owner ship issue of the product. V8 supercars are run by Avesco for TEGA. Avesco is a joint venture between TEGA and Tony Cochrane, but ultimately TEGA is the 'owner'. On Tega's board are representatives of Ford and Holden and some team reps, from teams sponsored by Ford and Holden. Now to get a third manufacturer into the sport TEGA have to vote for it, now just which one of the TEGA board members is going to do that?

Tony Cochrane makes noise in the press when he wants publicity about something, he doesn't necessarily have the authority to actually go through with the noise he's making..

[brock05]

Interesting times ahead methinks - and adding a bit of variety wouldn't be such a bad thing, would it?


thats what people were saying back when the Group A rules were brought in. when our local produced cars ( only the commodore at the time ) weren't cutting the mustard local fans lost enthusiasnm for the category pretty quick and thus V8Supercars were established. but i do agree something new would be good as i think they have done everything they can with the HvF format ie different race formats now we are going overseas to try and continue growing the series.

[Nawdy]

thats what people were saying back when the Group A rules were brought in. when our local produced cars ( only the commodore at the time ) weren't cutting the mustard local fans lost enthusiasnm for the category pretty quick and thus V8Supercars were established. but i do agree something new would be good as i think they have done everything they can with the HvF format ie different race formats now we are going overseas to try and continue growing the series.True, but we didn't have the benefit (?) of parity rules back then either. Cars such as the Nissan GT-R and Cosworth Sierra made sure the V8's had a hard time winning, that's for sure. Although these cars followed the written rules of the catergory, they failed to follow the spirit in which they were written, there by ensuring the failure of the Grp A world championship. This is just my opinion...

I think if other makes were to be allowed in to supercar racing, they would be required to follow the same format as both Holden and Ford (V8 up front, rear wheel drive).

Sorry to be going so far O/T!

[Ricko]

I think your missing the owner ship issue of the product. V8 supercars are run by Avesco for TEGA. Avesco is a joint venture between TEGA and Tony Cochrane, but ultimately TEGA is the 'owner'. On Tega's board are representatives of Ford and Holden and some team reps, from teams sponsored by Ford and Holden. Now to get a third manufacturer into the sport TEGA have to vote for it, now just which one of the TEGA board members is going to do that?

Tony Cochrane makes noise in the press when he wants publicity about something, he doesn't necessarily have the authority to actually go through with the noise he's making..


TEGA is just the racing teams representative board, either the team owners or somebody selected by one is placed on the board by the team owners.

V8X magazine rates TEGA executive Wayne Cattach at number 7 and Tony Cochrane at number 1 respectively as the V8 Supercars most powerful people.

Even if what you say is correct, a manufacturer truely interested in the sport would get people on the TEGA board anyway. Offer a struggling team or two some cars and funding in exchange for them being chosen as their TEGA reps.

[exploder]

TEGA is just the racing teams representative board, either the team owners or somebody selected by one is placed on the board by the team owners.

V8X magazine rates TEGA executive Wayne Cattach at number 7 and Tony Cochrane at number 1 respectively as the V8 Supercars most powerful people.

Even if what you say is correct, a manufacturer truely interested in the sport would get people on the TEGA board anyway. Offer a struggling team or two some cars and funding in exchange for them being chosen as their TEGA reps.

V8X need to read their own articles... TEGA owns 75% of AVESCO, SEL (Tony Cochranes company) owns 25% how does this make Cochrane more powerfull than Cattach?

http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_103253/article.html

[exploder]

V8X magazine rates TEGA executive Wayne Cattach at number 7 and Tony Cochrane at number 1 respectively as the V8 Supercars most powerful people.


I note in this top ten (march 2001) they still list Geoff Jones, General Manager of IMG. IMG haven't been involved V8 supercars for a couple of years now, except for the actual Bathurst race and I think that finished this year........

Also on the list is Howard Marsden, he died in 2003, RIP..

[exploder]

TEGA is just the racing teams representative board, either the team owners or somebody selected by one is placed on the board by the team owners.

V8X magazine rates TEGA executive Wayne Cattach at number 7 and Tony Cochrane at number 1 respectively as the V8 Supercars most powerful people.

Even if what you say is correct, a manufacturer truely interested in the sport would get people on the TEGA board anyway. Offer a struggling team or two some cars and funding in exchange for them being chosen as their TEGA reps.

You may want to read this V8X article
http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_101959/article.html

especially the bit titled 'The Real Power Brokers'

[Ricko]

V8X need to read their own articles... TEGA owns 75% of AVESCO, SEL (Tony Cochranes company) owns 25% how does this make Cochrane more powerfull than Cattach?

http://www.v8x.com.au/cms/A_103253/article.html


Yes, thats true but that 75% is divided up amongst 22 teams and 2 manufacturers, diluting there input to less than 4% each; (i doubt each member shares the same percentage though).

So as an individual Cochrane is no doubt the most powerful person there with 25%. With his support and a few teams a new manufacturer could lobby their way into the series. Cochrane did get the round in China against much opposition.

If this brought more people through the stands, it would be hard to argue.

apologies for taking the thread off course.

[exploder]

Yes, thats true but that 75% is divided up amongst 22 teams and 2 manufacturers, diluting there input to less than 4% each; (i doubt each member shares the same percentage though).

So as an individual Cochrane is no doubt the most powerful person there with 25%. With his support and a few teams a new manufacturer could lobby their way into the series. Cochrane did get the round in China against much opposition.

If this brought more people through the stands, it would be hard to argue.

apologies for taking the thread off course.

Its not that democratic, TEGA board is made up of 2 Ford team reps and 2 Holden teams reps and an independant chariman. The car companies decide who their rep is. Or more bluntly if you don't have a Factory sponsorship you won't be on the TEGA board. So using your maths method.
Cochrane 25%
Ford 30%
Holden 30%
Independant TEGA chairman 15%

AVESCO does what TEGA tell them.