A XR6 taxi?

[myles]

I don't know much about taxis, except the drivers hardly sleep, wear a pair of aviators and they give you a heart attack with their 'no-look' high speed moves.

Anyway, as I drove off the story bridge (in Brisbane) on Tuesday morning, a couple of lanes over was a yellow cab, but not the typical falcon or the recently acquired Avalon, but a BA XR6.

Do Ford/Holden or any of the other car makers have control of what cars will be badged a taxi vehicle?

I heard somewhere Ford was staying away from supplying their cars to the taxi fleet. Is it because they felt it diminished their brand? :idea:

[vzsv6]

I have seen one here in Melbourne but upon closer inspection I realised it was only an XT with XR6 front end and badges.

Taxi operators usually buy secondhand fleet vehicles at auctions, give them a quick spray job and convert them into taxis...... so no, the car manufacturers have absolutely no say in the matter.

[myles]

That could be what it was. But it definitely had the XR6 body kit and the rear end had the XR6 spoiler.

What next, the GT racing stripes? It's a damn taxi what do they need a XR6 or a XT with the full XR6 kit for? :lol:

I'd make it law they drive the slowest bulkiest car possible for the safety of others. Avalon with an extra 500 kgs. ;)

ps - saw a taxi with a whole smashed front tonight in Brisbane city getting towed away. Reaffirmed their driving skill. :p

[bpm]

I've ridden in quite a few taxis over the past year (due to losing my license) and have ridden in an XR6 turbo cab and a vt sII V8 cab. The vt was on gas, not sure about the xr.

[clixanup]

Do Ford/Holden or any of the other car makers have control of what cars will be badged a taxi vehicle?

I heard somewhere Ford was staying away from supplying their cars to the taxi fleet. Is it because they felt it diminished their brand? :idea:

I don't think so.

I think the whole Ford thing was something to do with not fitting factory LPG anymore. I could be wrong.

How can a manufacturer specify how they want their product used? Makes absolutely no sense. If I'm spending hard earned cash on a car, I'll use it however I please.

[Knight Phlier]

I am sure that Ford are still offering the "Taxi Pack" option from new - IE LPG standard (Instead of regular petrol tank); plastic seats. Maybe it is discontinued with MKII but am sure they had this for the first series in BA.

I have seen several XR6's but suprising have also seen XR6T and XR8 Cabs! I am not sure if the XR8 was legit or just a kit and exhaust. Was sure the XR6T was legit as looked from the front view could see the intercooler. Was really suprised. Thought to myself - I wouldn't mind a ride in that cab! Have also seen numerous V8 Statesmen/Caprice Silver service cabs although most are V6's.

[Febs]

Heaps of XR6 Taxis here in Sydney - plenty of BAs, but also AUs and ELs. I've even seen an XR6T taxi, and a VY SS.

But the best was the BA I saw last week - Stock-looking XT, chrome hubcaps, BA XR8 bonnet! :lol:

Cheers,
- Febs.

[RICHO]

I am sure that Ford are still offering the "Taxi Pack" option from new - IE LPG standard (Instead of regular petrol tank); plastic seats. Maybe it is discontinued with MKII but am sure they had this for the first series in BA.

I have seen several XR6's but suprising have also seen XR6T and XR8 Cabs! I am not sure if the XR8 was legit or just a kit and exhaust. Was sure the XR6T was legit as looked from the front view could see the intercooler. Was really suprised. Thought to myself - I wouldn't mind a ride in that cab! Have also seen numerous V8 Statesmen/Caprice Silver service cabs although most are V6's.

For no longer provide a "taxi pack" on Falcon sedans it stopped with BA. The only exception being Falcon Wagons. The wagons were also the only vehicles that attracted a discount for taxi fleets.

Toyota however have filled the void and are now offering significant incentives on the Avalon.

[Danv8]

Im not surprised to see other brands being taxi's I remember one particular EA falcon a few years ago it had a 5 litre V8 badge on the side of the car but it was a worn out 3.9 or 3.2 litre 6. The big ends sounded like they on their way out. But I have been in a VN V8 taxi that had a mild cam in it.

[Dacious]

The taxi licence owner/drivers get them upgraded when in for panel damage. Monaros were on the road for about 5 nanoseconds before CV8 traillights started appearing in VT-VXs.


There's also quite a few Caprices, Fairlanes and I've even seen a early Lexus here in Melbourne.

[seldo]

For no longer provide a "taxi pack" on Falcon sedans it stopped with BA. The only exception being Falcon Wagons. The wagons were also the only vehicles that attracted a discount for taxi fleets.

I believe it was because the Barra engine is not LPG compatible.


Toyota however have filled the void and are now offering significant incentives on the Avalon.
Well, they had to - no other bastad would buy them.. Also, it's a good thing that with the mileages that cabs do, it will get rid of them reasonably quickly...

[Danv8]

[QUOTE=seldo]I believe it was because the Barra engine is not LPG compatible.

One cab company got a BA falcon on dual fuel
Article here (http://www.blackandwhitecabs.com.au/cms/pages/Menu/For+Our+Fleet/fleet+news/news+archive/!/Fleet+News+Archive/BA+on+LPG/display.html)

[HSVMAN]

There area few XR6 taxis here, plus even a couple of HSVs and a few pretend HSV's drivin by turban wearing non-english speaking individuals :D

[Knight Phlier]

Seldo - I am sure that 95% of the taxi's I see are BA1 Fords and have LPG stickers on them! I don't think any Taxi operator would buy one unless it could allow for LPG.

[myles]

So there are HSV, XR6T, XR8, SS, and stock models done up with XR8 bonnets and chrome wheels taxis driving around. Well you learn something new everyday!! :D

I wonder if they choose the performance models to race other taxi drivers and get to a job quicker? :lol:

The XR6T would chew through fuel as much as a V8. You'd think it would be uneconomical to drive a turbo, especially with all the waiting/car idling they do.

At least you would know where the money is going - straight into fuel. I bet the taxi drivers in the XR6Ts and V8s would be less inclined to do the whole, 'I know a shorter way (which takes longer but I won't tell you)' manoeuvre.

A to B would be in record time. ;)

[myles]

There area few XR6 taxis here, plus even a couple of HSVs and a few pretend HSV's drivin by turban wearing non-english speaking individuals :D

Pretend HSVs driven by turban wearing non-english speaking inviduals? Somehow I think I would walk. :lol:

[paulvdb]

I am sure that Ford are still offering the "Taxi Pack" option from new - IE LPG standard (Instead of regular petrol tank); plastic seats. Maybe it is discontinued with MKII but am sure they had this for the first series in BA.

I have seen several XR6's but suprising have also seen XR6T and XR8 Cabs! I am not sure if the XR8 was legit or just a kit and exhaust. Was sure the XR6T was legit as looked from the front view could see the intercooler. Was really suprised. Thought to myself - I wouldn't mind a ride in that cab! Have also seen numerous V8 Statesmen/Caprice Silver service cabs although most are V6's.
I seem to remember that it was a marketing thing. Who wants everyone to remember your company as the taxi company? Also there was an issue with the yellow paint taking away a colour out of the option chart for normal buyers.

[Febs]

Seldo - I am sure that 95% of the taxi's I see are BA1 Fords and have LPG stickers on them! I don't think any Taxi operator would buy one unless it could allow for LPG.

Yep.
I've actually driven a BA cab on LPG. It drove like....a BA cab on LPG! :lol:


So there are HSV, XR6T, XR8, SS, and stock models done up with XR8 bonnets and chrome wheels taxis driving around. Well you learn something new everyday!! :D

I remember once getting a taxi from Star City to Sutherland. Saw it pull up and thought "Hmm..that sounds pretty tough - let's hop in this one."

It was an EL XR8...600k-ish on the clock, so it didn't go too well, but seeing him doing 140km/h down the M5, on the phone to his mate saying "Yeah mate, she won't change into 4th!' was pretty funny. :D

[MickNugent]

I remember reading an article saying that ford cancelled the yellow taxi colour for more colour options. Therefore losing the taxis to toyota. They seemed to think that making the yellow wasnt worth the taxi business. Could be wrong but pretty damn sure.

[M&Ms]

i've seen a few XR6 taxis, and even an SS. I wonder if at the end of the day the guy in the SS is actually making any kind of profit, especially in the Sydney CBD!!

[Rt!]

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rt/Clubtaxi.jpg

not a real one ;)

extra points for people who can guess where it is :)

[vzsv6]

Iv'e seen that one before.....It's in New Zealand i think...

[Febs]

Just remember some drivers are owner-drivers. If you were driving up to 1,000km each day, wouldn't you want to be doing it in an 8? The slight cost difference (fuel/maintenance) would be well worth it to someone doing several hundred kms each day. Hell, even for a full-time uni student like my mates and myself, it was worth making the switch from a V6 to an LS1. :)


extra points for people who can guess where it is :)

That's a toughy, given the photo. Umm...I'll take a shot and say Lakemba?
Can we have a rough area? :)


Iv'e seen that one before.....It's in New Zealand i think...

Definitely looks like a Sydney taxi to me. TCS if I'm not mistaken.

[EpOcH]

It seems its up to the Taxi owners for what cars they decide to use.

I had a conversation with an owner/driver of a VX 'S' after a late night at the office. Seems the guy he partners with have only got a number of VX S' and are particular about who they get to drive for them, i think its great.

The VX had ~350,000km's on the clock and idled as smooth as a baby's bum still.

I rekon its great that some of them have *reasonable* cars and look after them, takes away the :errr: factor of getting into a taxi :D

I'd definitly pick a nicer car out of a rank than a scungy/unwashed looking one, i dont care WHERE in the RANK lineup it is :D

[vzsv6]

Definitely looks like a Sydney taxi to me. TCS if I'm not mistaken.

Hmmm, I remember a pic on here a while back of a VX Clubby taxi and it was in New Zealand..... thats the first thing I thought when I saw the above pic.....

[traco]

If it wasn't for heavily discounted taxi and fleet sales Ford would probably have gone the way of Leyland by now .

At least someone has found a suitable use for the XR6.

[RICHO]

If it wasn't for heavily discounted taxi and fleet sales Ford would probably have gone the way of Leyland by now .

At least someone has found a suitable use for the XR6.

:rolleyes:

Ignorance (noun) - The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed

[traco]

Come to think of it, SS's S's XRs and other upmarket makes and models as taxis smacks of money laundering to me. I don't think passengers are too particular when it comes to taxis as long as it gets you there reliably using the shortest route and the cabbie knows where he's going and can at least peak to you in English.

A chappy and asian appearance and his wife, both frequent a local club and religiously pour $5.00 bets through the pokies without batting an eyelid. The club is near my home and I notice that his taxi is parked outside the club almost daily from opening time to closing time. Can't believe he makes enough money to support his and his wife's (gambling) habit driving a taxi in the few short hours when the club isn't open.

Must check to see if he leaves the meter running. He's already been banned from another club in the area so he's obvioulsy upset someone, somehow.

[traco]

Describes you to a tee Richo - read up on some of the stats re car sales - if you can.

[myles]

It seems its up to the Taxi owners for what cars they decide to use.

I had a conversation with an owner/driver of a VX 'S' after a late night at the office. Seems the guy he partners with have only got a number of VX S' and are particular about who they get to drive for them, i think its great.

The VX had ~350,000km's on the clock and idled as smooth as a baby's bum still.

I rekon its great that some of them have *reasonable* cars and look after them, takes away the :errr: factor of getting into a taxi :D

I'd definitly pick a nicer car out of a rank than a scungy/unwashed looking one, i dont care WHERE in the RANK lineup it is :D


I agree. I think it's great many of them take pride in their cars and really look after them.

I guess it comes down to customer preference. Personally I'm not too fussed what car I pick out, if it has mud all over it wouldn't bother me, as long as the seats inside didn't have vomit from one of last year's many formals, I'd be happy. But then again, dirty car on the outside may mean the driver is too lazy to look after the car, so the inside is equally as crapped up.

How about this :idea: , new taxi company starts up in your city. It's around a third less than what you'd normally pay ($14 instead of $20), only all the cars are little suzuki swifts http://www.globalsuzuki.com/swift/index.html Would anyone dial the number?

[ssvyredute]

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rt/Clubtaxi.jpg

not a real one ;)

extra points for people who can guess where it is :)

premier cab in KINGS CROSS i think!

[RICHO]

Describes you to a tee Richo - read up on some of the stats re car sales - if you can.

Let's see....

Have worked in sales and strategy planning for one of the companies...until very recently
Know for a fact the types of fleet subsidies that both pay (customer feedback)
Know for instance that Ford hasn't provide subsidies to Taxi fleets for some time and that most Falcon taxis have been purchased 2nd hand at auctions and been retrofit by the purchaser
In terms of subsidies Ford is unable to compete with Holden they have a smaller budget (per unit) to spend on subsidies and a higher threshold before subsidies are allowed
Holden were (generally) smarter in the way they deal with their fleet clients and their clients are far more loyal
Know a lot about actual production costs, margins, fixed and variable marketing budgets

And traco, FYI in the "private" (non-fleet market) there is no more than 50-100 unit sales difference between Commodore / Falcon each month. And a total difference recently on 1000+... So if private sales are on a par and Holden sell 1000-1500 more Commodores than Falcons each month, i wonder who dominates the fleet market??

Publicly available info doesn't split sales into Private / Fleet nor into subsidised / non subsidised through factory incentives.

"If I can read up on car sales stats"??? My job use to involve reporting, analysing and making recommendations based on the raw data. But perhaps that doesn't make me well enough informed for you

[chops]

A guy my old man used to drive for used V8 Calais' for his cabs.
Leather interior, on gas (pre LS1).

They weren't much dearer to run, you can depreciate them quickly, then buy from the business at book value after a year or two.

Kept him in nice (cheap) personal cars at only a couple years old, and he said you'd get HEAPS of people picking your cab off the rank on walk up, so in the end, it probably more than paid for itself.

[HSVMAN]

Let's see....
...Know for instance that Ford hasn't provide subsidies to Taxi fleets for some time and that most Falcon taxis have been purchased 2nd hand at auctions and been retrofit by the purchaser
Holden were (generally) smarter in the way they deal with their fleet clients and their clients are far more loyal
Know a lot about actual production costs, margins, fixed and variable marketing budgets
And traco, FYI in the "private" (non-fleet market) there is no more than 50-100 unit sales difference between Commodore / Falcon each month. And a total difference recently on 1000+... So if private sales are on a par and Holden sell 1000-1500 more Commodores than Falcons each month, i wonder who dominates the fleet market??

Ford are dropping their pants on both sides of the Tasman to recover sales "lost" to Holden in the fleet and private markets (this is mainly in the large car market mind you) Major Lease comps will tell you they get a greater discount from Ford as do large Corporates. Buying decisions in bigger Fleets are largely made by the bean counters that take "total ownership" into account ie resale, reliability etc. Those that get to decide what they drive account for approx 20% of the fleet market and the stats on what they choose is much the same as the private market - around 20 - 40% in favour of Holden :)
Taxi fleets have the same buying power with Ford as they do Holden

[BA$TAD]

I believe it was because the Barra engine is not LPG compatible.



Sorry but i don't understand according to this
http://www.ford.com.au/falcon/htmlPageFrameSet.asp?destination=specs

the barra engine has a LPG standard engine.

I assume though you mean dual fuel.

[traco]

Richo

With all due respect you should be a little more attentive before passing such comment. My statement "if it wasn't for heavily discounted taxi and fleet sales Ford would probably have gone the way of Leyland by now " is accurate.

I too have been involved in fleet sales and know that each and every entity receives a totally different deal on fleet/Government/company cars based on volume, the prevailing market, how hard a bargain is driven and the leverage that can be applied.

But getting back to my opening statement - did your intelligent one word observatioin mean I was wrong? Are you saying that Australia's Edsel, the AU falcon didn't almost send Ford Australia broke and that Ford didn't heavily discount AUs sold to taxi and fleet buyers in the hope that their presence on the road would generate some public acceptance of what was a butt-ugly piece of metal?

My statement is reinforced by reports in Modern Motor, wheels and other motoring outlets over the years. My comparison with Leyland should provide you with an idea of how far back I have gone. Should we me dare mention the EA while we are at it and how it was creamed by the VN and the impact that had on the company?

As for my comment re the XR6 - I drove one daily for three years. It was provided by my employee. My real car (the car I chose and own) is a VY 11 SS.

Yes, Ford sales aren't too bad now - all they had to do was make the AU look more like a Commodore.

You say you "have worked in the sales and strategy planning for one of the companies" - wouldn't have been Ford, would it now?

[Ghia351]

Seldo - I am sure that 95% of the taxi's I see are BA1 Fords and have LPG stickers on them! I don't think any Taxi operator would buy one unless it could allow for LPG.

You're right, the BA has a Factory built dedicated gas (ie not duel fuel) called E-gas, 156kW, 372Nm only available on Xt's and Futura's. The factory nolonger provides taxi yellow as a colour option and so if you buy new must spray it yourself. This is really what was meant by nolonger offering a model for taxi operators. Really over 75% of cabs are second hand low km cars such as factory staff registered or government fleet which are turned over quickly, some within months due to their high mileage.

[Rt!]

Not kings cross :)
hint: St George area

[Ghia351]

Ford are dropping their pants on both sides of the Tasman to recover sales "lost" to Holden in the fleet and private markets (this is mainly in the large car market mind you)

..And here I was thinking they were practising for the Sydney Mardi Gra when in fact they were preparing to offer me national fleet discount.....I'd rather pay full retail...Does that also mean Ford has now dropped their pants to the same level as Holden's...?

[dpac]

Silver Service has a 2002 E200 Kompressor, in Sydney that i have seen twice, it is the same car as my parents. I could have thought of much better things to spend $85,000 on.

[RICHO]

Given some of the candid discussion on this forum it would be unwise of me to state which company I have in fact worked for. Suffice to say that I am a fan of Fords (oh for an XP Coupe), even if I have owned more Holden's over my lifetime...Siggghhh I should never have sold the HR...... and yes at the moment I drive an XR8

Over any automative companies History they have peaks and troughs, AU has an out and out disaster for Ford, albeit not one that even came close to putting the compant out of business. What it did do however was kill Ford's fleet sales, too many fleets were burnt by the shocking residuals on AU and 'once bitten twice shy' Holden met them with open arms and some great deals. With fleet sales 70+% of the large car market in Australia, Holden are still reaping the rewards of Ford's blunder with AU. Has Holden made similar blunders?? Yes they have...will both companies make them in the future yes they will. Recent history shows this to be the case....Ford stuffed the Typhoon Launch, the Vectra was not a premium product / BMW competitor and the Adventra was $4,000 to expensive at launch, recently, small mistakes only...but the next big one is just around the corner.

I should point out that Discounting is not just employed to sell cars alone, larger considerations include keeping the plant running. Down days and plant closures forced by low sales levels cost a great deal more than dropping handing out $4000 on every car produced during a day.

Ultimately, Ford are now producing at their Maximum capacity given current shift patterns, some 250 units a day less than Holden...who run 3 shifts. Unless Ford invest heavily in a major plant expansion they will never have the capacity to outproduce, let alone outsell Holden.

But it could happen......does anyone really know what the VE looks like?? Could it be a controversial design that polarises opinion? (personally I think Holden are to smart to reeat Ford's mistake) but any adverse reaction by the market and Ford will be in a position to capitalise with a well regarded, updated Falcon just like Holden did at AU time.

If that happens (and it's one HUGE IF)...will you be on here passing comment that Holden is going the way of Leyland?? Of course not..Holden like Ford are more than capable of weathering a 5 year storm.

[Ghia351]

If it wasn't for heavily discounted taxi and fleet sales Ford would probably have gone the way of Leyland by now .

At least someone has found a suitable use for the XR6.

I guess you forgot about GM US bailing out Holden by hundeds of millions of dollars in the '80s so the only company that's nearly gone belly up is in fact Holden if you exclude Chrysler/Mitsubish take-over of their SA plants and Nissan dandenong shutdown and switching to full importation. Some more knowledgable Holden people can add the greater detail and this is really O/T to XR6 taxis.

[traco]

Richo,

"If" it ever happens we can talk about it then. Let's stay in the real world and leave the hypotheticals to the "ignorant" shall we? I made a stament and I'm sticking by it.

Ghia351,

Not so. Ford has come very close to packing up the Falcon here in Australia on a number of occasions. A cash injection to Holden by GM HQ in the US is not the same as considering a complete closedown of a model. The difference Ghia is that while GM saw Holden as a viable and ultimately quite profitable vehicle and was willing to fund it during lean times, Ford HQ saw the Falcon as a serious drain on it's resources and some considered shutting it down completely. Thankfully that view did not prevail.

What will the VE look like? Don't know, but I've travelled overseas extensively quite recently and have noticed a trend towards the US Cadillac and Nissan style. Rather awkward (different) to look at at first but, ultimately comes across as rather handsome.

There wiull never ever be another AU - thank god. I have no idea how that one got past the clay model, let alone to the production stage. I hear Ford sterilised the water coolers soon after that debacle.

[RICHO]

traco, fair enough..although it's a stretch to suggest that GM were not having the same discussions / thoughst about Holden that Ford HQ were about the Falcon. Ultimately, both companies got the support they needed.

As an aside, If you were in the US when overseas recently did you see a 300C in the flesh and if so what did you think?

Was in the US myself not long ago, had seen the pics but was disappointed when I saw one in the flesh, a little to US centric for my tastes.

[traco]

Richo,

Mixed feelings about the 300C. A bit too fussy/prissy for my liking. I tend to look at such vehicles in a different light - knowing I would never own one (even if I had the money) I admire them, in a superficial sort of way, but don't get too deeply involved and quickly move onto something I know I can get into bed with. Besides a few warts and battle scars reflect a deeper personality. I can't fault the asthetics of the 300C, but it's almost too perfect.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I have owned the ultimate hoon-mobile (to me anyway) many years ago and I know no matter what comes onto the market it will never compare.

[seldo]

Seldo - I am sure that 95% of the taxi's I see are BA1 Fords and have LPG stickers on them! I don't think any Taxi operator would buy one unless it could allow for LPG.
I'm obviously wrong on this one....it had to happen eventually ;)

[seldo]

Given some of the candid discussion on this forum it would be unwise of me to state which company I have in fact worked for. Suffice to say that I am a fan of Fords (oh for an XP Coupe), even if I have owned more Holden's over my lifetime...Siggghhh I should never have sold the HR...... and yes at the moment I drive an XR8

Over any automative companies History they have peaks and troughs, AU has an out and out disaster for Ford, albeit not one that even came close to putting the compant out of business. What it did do however was kill Ford's fleet sales, too many fleets were burnt by the shocking residuals on AU and 'once bitten twice shy' Holden met them with open arms and some great deals. With fleet sales 70+% of the large car market in Australia, Holden are still reaping the rewards of Ford's blunder with AU. Has Holden made similar blunders?? Yes they have...will both companies make them in the future yes they will. Recent history shows this to be the case....Ford stuffed the Typhoon Launch, the Vectra was not a premium product / BMW competitor and the Adventra was $4,000 to expensive at launch, recently, small mistakes only...but the next big one is just around the corner.

I should point out that Discounting is not just employed to sell cars alone, larger considerations include keeping the plant running. Down days and plant closures forced by low sales levels cost a great deal more than dropping handing out $4000 on every car produced during a day.

Ultimately, Ford are now producing at their Maximum capacity given current shift patterns, some 250 units a day less than Holden...who run 3 shifts. Unless Ford invest heavily in a major plant expansion they will never have the capacity to outproduce, let alone outsell Holden.

But it could happen......does anyone really know what the VE looks like?? Could it be a controversial design that polarises opinion? (personally I think Holden are to smart to reeat Ford's mistake) but any adverse reaction by the market and Ford will be in a position to capitalise with a well regarded, updated Falcon just like Holden did at AU time.

If that happens (and it's one HUGE IF)...will you be on here passing comment that Holden is going the way of Leyland?? Of course not..Holden like Ford are more than capable of weathering a 5 year storm.
Richo, even though you barrack for the other side, at least you are always capable of making intelligent, reasoned and articulate posts.

[Ghia351]

Ghia351,

Not so. Ford has come very close to packing up the Falcon here in Australia on a number of occasions. A cash injection to Holden by GM HQ in the US is not the same as considering a complete closedown of a model. The difference Ghia is that while GM saw Holden as a viable and ultimately quite profitable vehicle and was willing to fund it during lean times, Ford HQ saw the Falcon as a serious drain on it's resources and some considered shutting it down completely. Thankfully that view did not prevail.

I'll be the first to aplogize if I'm wrong but the "cash injection" saved Holden from insolvency, as in saved it's bacon from close down and ending of all manufacturing completely. Ending a single models sole Australian development to taking an overseas design and "australianising it" is a little different. Ironically this is what Holden has done with the Commodore until VE, which is more it's own baby.

[traco]

The cash injection came from the parent company, nothing extraordinary about that, in fact a standard global procedure ( move funding to where it is needed) There was no widespread corporate contemplation of closing it down and instead, seeing that Holden was a sound viable proposition, money was made available for it to continue to where it is today.

On the other hand, the losses were such at Ford that it seriously considered chopping the Falcon altogether. Moreover, Holden's woes came not from the production of lemons (EA) and unsaleable models (AU) as in the case of Ford, but from prevailing market influences dictated by timing (1973 oil crisis) and global and domestic economiic pressure.

Leyland folded partly because the Australian car market could not sustain a fourth major local manufacturer. Given the domestic circumstances at the time, two was considered the limit and Ford is lucky the Valiant (another victim of the oil crisis) bit the dust when it did otherwise you might be driving a Greek Mercedes instead of you current ride.

As far as "cash injections" are concerned - well, we all get one each payday, don't we? And that get's us by until the next crisis - the day before payday.

Such is life.

[vzsv6]

On the other hand, the losses were such at Ford that it seriously considered chopping the Falcon altogether. Moreover, Holden's woes came not from the production of lemons (EA) and unsaleable models (AU) as in the case of Ford, but from prevailing market influences dictated by timing (1973 oil crisis) and global and domestic economiic pressure.

Very well said traco and very true ;)

[Ghia351]

The cash injection came from the parent company, nothing extraordinary about that, in fact a standard global procedure ( move funding to where it is needed) There was no widespread corporate contemplation of closing it down and instead, seeing that Holden was a sound viable proposition, money was made available for it to continue to where it is today.

On the other hand, the losses were such at Ford that it seriously considered chopping the Falcon altogether. Moreover, Holden's woes came not from the production of lemons (EA) and unsaleable models (AU) as in the case of Ford, but from prevailing market influences dictated by timing (1973 oil crisis) and global and domestic economiic pressure.

Leyland folded partly because the Australian car market could not sustain a fourth major local manufacturer. Given the domestic circumstances at the time, two was considered the limit and Ford is lucky the Valiant (another victim of the oil crisis) bit the dust when it did otherwise you might be driving a Greek Mercedes instead of you current ride.

As far as "cash injections" are concerned - well, we all get one each payday, don't we? And that get's us by until the next crisis - the day before payday.

Such is life.

I think you miss my point, if there was NO bailout, (your downplayed reference of cash injection makes it sound like it was a regular capital outlay to pay for future programs) when in fact it was a payment to wipe out all crippling debt and avoid insolvency.

Lets be a little more objective, EAI was a huge lemon rushed to market to head off VN and trim fit was shocking, the 3 speed wasn't matched to the engines as the 4 speed was delayed until EAII, while also being first series engines of OHC layout also suffered head gasket problems etc..it goes on so yes it was a lemon however EAII was a vast improvement and there was so many continual ongoing updates during the run. The AU caused Ford financial loses but their debt was never such it NEEDED any bailout from its parent, that is my point and nothing more. You can agree to disagree but you're really argueing over semantics. By the way the oil crisis of the early seventies must have lingered on for Holden into the 80's as that is when the US parent stepped in to clear all its debt, not really a plausible reason to explain its financial situation over 10 years later.

[traco]

Ghia351,

You must be either an overly devoted Ford lover or a rabid leftwinger, or both. Never let the facts stand in the way of truth, or a win and you have employed the very visable strategy of trying to talk about everything else other than what I originally said.

I stand by my statement "If it wasn't for heavily discounted taxi and fleet sales Ford would probably have gone the way of Leyland by now ."

That is a fact and that is how Ford moved its stock of EAs and AUs and kept itself alive. It's common knowledge that the BA is a 'make or break model' and fortunately for Ford,it is proving reasonably popular, but they had to make it look like a Commodore to do it.

I will also repeat "Moreover, Holden's woes came not from the production of lemons (EA) and unsaleable models (AU) as in the case of Ford, but from prevailing market influences dictated by timing (1973 oil crisis) and global and domestic economiic pressure."

Yes, I did mention the oil crisis of the seventies as one example - Want another - we suffered one as a result of the Gulf war that impacted on car sales and model selection and we are entering into another right now.

The demand for energy from two awakening giants (India and China) and OPECs intransient attitude towards the West will lead to future oil shortages, higher prices, or both, and possibly serve as a catalyst for a major conflict between continents down the line .

But there I go again with the "semantics".

[Ghia351]

Ghia351,

You must be either an overly devoted Ford lover or a rabid leftwinger, or both. Never let the facts stand in the way of truth, or a win and you have employed the very visable strategy of trying to talk about everything else other than what I originally said.

LOL, yeah I hate Johnny Howard, am a shop steward at Ford and have a 25 year membership to the Communist party.

We're so far o/t its funny the mods haven't warned us but anyway....if I'm right you think only Ford's heavy discounting of EA and AU saved its arse from failing and following Leyland. Even if that all were true (and I politely disagree) I still state that only Holden has needed its parent's help in wiping out all its debt before being declared insolvent. The why's or wherefors are important but not altering of this fact.

On a side note the 70's oil crisis actually robbed our family business from exporting product due to the shortage of petrochemical based raw material so the factory we built was rented out, amazingly it made enough money to pay the loan and make some profit...ahh who needed negative gearing in those days.

Don't let the name ghia351 put you off, I'm happy to share our opinions, maybe by PM as I'd like to learn more of your experiences during the late 70's &/or discuss our versions of motoring history, unless of course you're a sub-25 year old, in which case it's only academic :stick:

To stay in the mods good books I better end by saying any XR6 taxi would be a conversion of a 2nd hand or brand new car after purchase and not a factory prepared taxi vehicle.

[myles]

To stay in the mods good books I better end by saying any XR6 taxi would be a conversion of a 2nd hand or brand new car after purchase and not a factory prepared taxi vehicle.

Thanks for the info, that's what I was wondering about. :cheers:

[Ghia351]

Thanks for the info, that's what I was wondering about. :cheers:

Ooops, I didn't realise it took 53 posts to get your answer. Just to add some more info Geoff Polites was quoted as saying he once rode in an EL Falcon cab and because of its clapped out condition felt it was a bad image for the model as has also been repeated by Mackenzie (head of Marketing (?)) from Holden. Hence the dropping of the factory option and push to wagons if they have customers after new cars. Plus the wagon loses less space from the LPG install and still holds more than a sedan. Every day I pass through Bay Rd, Sandringham and there is a Commodore-only taxi fleet which has an adjoining panel shop and so the cars are bought 2nd hand and resprayed taxi yellow. Toyota with the Avalon seems to have filled the gap for new car taxi-cab buyers and it will interesting to see how high mileage cars turn out including resale, if 2nd hand cabs can claim such a thing when it comes to off-loading them.