HSV // STi

[myles]

I did a search and couldn't find a previous post for this.

From : http://users.bigpond.net.au/pacer265/HSV%20vs%20WRX%20Drag%20Race.html

HSV GTS vs WRX STi Drag Race

This is a segment captured from the Australian GT Production Series. While not Mopar related, this is still fun to watch. A drag race between 195kw of Subaru Imprezza WRX STi vs 300kw worth of Chevy Gen III in a Holden Special Vehicles GTS. The WRX tags the GTS at the start of the straight leaving the GTS with plenty of work to do...

Right click clip and 'save as' here: :burnout: HSV vs STi (http://users.bigpond.net.au/pacer265/HSV%20GTS%20(300kw)%20vs%20WRX%20STi%20(195kw)%20% 20Drag%20Race%20sml.mpg)

[dominik]

Shame there wasn't any more of that... I was enjoying it and then it was all over. It's only a fair contest on the straights though... through the corners the STi grips like it's on rails. Like them or not, they sound alright for a 4 when being pushed, especially with a decent exhaust. I'm waiting for the day when they drop a flat-6 into it around 3-3.5L or so. Then they'll have a Porsche killer. Sorry, I'm rambling :burnout:

[jasonrouse]

I raced a 2002 WRX STi, a white bug eyed one with the gold wheels at the motorplex, great off the line.... but they seem to lack in the mid range - top end... to be honest they dont really have anything up there at all.
He got me off the line by about 2 cars, then i brought it back to one car by mid track, and just got my nose in front by 400m. I got 14.21 he got 14.30
my speed was 161.3 kph, his was 155.4 kph
so i had quite a bit of legs on him... either way.... still quick for a 4 banger.

[Veeate]

MOTOR had an Sti and a LS2 R8 tested during its PCOTY. The STi was slightly faster (time wise) over 0-100 and 0-400 but the LS2 romped home in the 0-1000m test.

Then the Sti ran rings around it on the track test at Winton.

And , if we get back to the video which is the GT Prod series racing, you will find the Sti/EVO's normally have it over the GTS's at most tracks.

Though i love watching Floyd's green GTS through turn 8 (the big sweeper) at Adelaide. He has to back off and slide the car through there on the limit. Meanwhile the Sti seems to go through there on rails.........Damn those Sti's !!!!

[jasonrouse]

yes I have that copy of motor, but the cars were tested in very different conditions.

The STi was tested in 17 degree temperatures i think? and ran a 13.8 second 400m time (off the top of my head) Please correct me if thats wrong. But it was early in the morning and cool. The R8 was tested in 35 degree temperatures in the middle of the day. ( a big dissadvantage as all motorcars are greatly effected by high temperatures which causes low air density)

If the R8 was tested at the same time it would of been alot quicker.... even too 100.

The same R8 only 2 weeks earlier had run 4.99 seconds too 100kph, and 13.01 @ 179kph down the quarter. The testing temperature was 18 degrees.


(PS, on the 2nd and third runs the STi ran 14.1 and then 14.2)

[myles]

I thought the same thing Jason.

The R8 was at a disadvantage. Why did the WRX and EVO get tested at much cooler temps? Most of Australia's driving conditions are far from it.

[jasonrouse]

I thought if anything, u should reverse the 2.
Let the turbo be at a disadvantage... with the heat...
and let the R8 have the dew in the morning and struggle with traction being RWD...

i just didnt think it was a good match to test 1 in such perfect conditions, and the other in such shocking conditions... still 0-100 in 6.2 in that heat is excelent.
A wrx, in that kinda heat and ur pushing mid 7's... wrx or sti...

[myles]

True.

You seen any new EVOs down the track or on the street? I've seen a few lately.

One guy driving a new EVO (black) through town here knew I was looking so gave it some stick. Sounds great, not as loud as the rex, but it really fired up and gripped the bitumen around the bend.

Saw two more the other night. One parked, different numberplate, but belonging to bpmsports.com (checked out their page, not only for rexes and evos, supply products to our V8 supercars) and it looked very nice. I guess I'm taking interest in the EVO as I haven't seen that many before.

Where it was parked, I kind of felt sick as an old rust bucket ford wagon packed full of kids jumped out and nearly slammed the EVO on one side.

Then driving home, different plates, another black EVO VIII. He filled up at the servo and I followed when he left.

What I realised was looking at a black EVOIII at night you would have no idea it was an EVO, hard to pick the difference at night. One might think it was a riced up lancer, then might be suprised to see its headlights.

[dominik]

yes I have that copy of motor, but the cars were tested in very different conditions.

The STi was tested in 17 degree temperatures i think? and ran a 13.8 second 400m time (off the top of my head) Please correct me if thats wrong. But it was early in the morning and cool. The R8 was tested in 35 degree temperatures in the middle of the day. ( a big dissadvantage as all motorcars are greatly effected by high temperatures which causes low air density)

If the R8 was tested at the same time it would of been alot quicker.... even too 100.

The same R8 only 2 weeks earlier had run 4.99 seconds too 100kph, and 13.01 @ 179kph down the quarter. The testing temperature was 18 degrees.


(PS, on the 2nd and third runs the STi ran 14.1 and then 14.2)I'm glad you brought that up. I noticed the same thing when reading that. STi and Evo both tested early in the morning. Everything else copped 30-35deg heat in the middle of the day. What gives? As I said a couple of weeks ago, it left me with the feeling they wanted to give those two cars the edge over the local cars for whatever reason.

[IH8WRX]

I do that everytime I take my car for a spin somewhere :D

IH8WRX 23: WRX's 0 :booty:

[myles]

Details on the EVO VIII (so I know the difference and don't get burned ;) ) http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/1_01_mit.htm

The EVO VIII FQ400 hitting 0-100 in 3.5 seconds sounds like fun...
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mitsubishi-evo-8-mr-fq400.htm

[NinetySix]

that looked pretty damn close considering the gts has a 105kw advantage :eek:

the dunnydoor looked to have bugger all advantage down the straight! and enough disadvantage in the corners to get eaten

[myles]

But you're forgetting the WRX is driven by its, umm TURBO. ;)

Take the turbo off it and my lawnmower could beat it down the straight.

Without the turbo, it'd be beaten for power by an Avalon, Camry, or even... Ford Festiva. :p

[dominik]

that looked pretty damn close considering the gts has a 105kw advantage :eek:

the dunnydoor looked to have bugger all advantage down the straight! and enough disadvantage in the corners to get eatenAnd a 250kg+ less weight advantage. Can't beat AWD for punching out of a tight corner. But every track has its straights and that's where the muscle gets a chance. I'd like to see that same race with a lighter SS (under 1600kg) + some forced induction. We all know without the hairdryer how they'd match up: Impreza RS, 0-100 in almost 10 seconds. I'm sh*t stirring... anyone that knows me will tell you I dig the STi but I'm also addicted to raw power and will always try to find a way to defend it :)

[IH8WRX]

that looked pretty damn close considering the gts has a 105kw advantage :eek:

the dunnydoor looked to have bugger all advantage down the straight! and enough disadvantage in the corners to get eaten


Gee I love when people make these comments over an LS1 powered Commodore :bash: . The Commodore is made as a four door family sedan, with rear wheel drive and weighs at least 1700kg for a GTS. Now take that compared to a specifically made all wheel drive STI purpose built rally car that is made from not much more then tin and weighs bugger all, what the hell would you expect :rolleyes:

At least the GTS could leve the race track and tow the STI with four passengers. I'd like to see the STI do that without blowing up!

Bottom line, two different cars made for two very diferent purposes.

[dominik]

Gee I love when people make these comments over an LS1 powered Commodore :bash: . The Commodore is made as a four door family sedan, with rear wheel drive and weighs at least 1700kg for a GTS. Now take that compared to a specifically made all wheel drive STI purpose built rally car that is made from not much more then tin and weighs bugger all, what the hell would you expect :rolleyes:

At least the GTS could leve the race track and tow the STI with four passengers. I'd like to see the STI do that without blowing up!

Bottom line, two different cars made for two very diferent purposes.Exactly, horses for courses. The WRX/STi was designed for the Japanese market and the WRC. We're generally a little taller than the average person over there and we're also a little heavier :) I'll speak for myself and say legroom and headroom are important. When you're going up a steep hill with say 4 adults adding up to 300kg+ of human cargo in the car, that's where torque seriously enters the conversation.

The bottom line is you can't have it all and I don't know of any car that's perfect in every situation in all conditions. For Australian conditions lugging around taller, heavier people and sometimes boats and trailers, I reckon our sedans do a pretty good job.

[myles]

I didn't think it was close as the HSV was tagged and was sliding sideways while the rex had traction and was in full flight.

Considering the the rex's turbo already kicking and the HSV was tagged, had loss of traction and started to face a different direction, I thought the HSV kicked butt. :)

[myles]

For Australian conditions lugging around taller, heavier people and sometimes boats and trailers, I reckon our sedans do a pretty good job.

You saying compared to the asian drivers we're a bunch of fat bloated aussies? :lol: ;)

[dominik]

You saying compared to the asian drivers we're a bunch of fat bloated aussies? :lol: ;)Last I heard the average height of a Japanese male is around 5'5". That means they'd weigh around 60-65kg. I don't have the stats on me but I'm pretty sure we're packing more than that across the board :)

[myles]

Is the full race on DVD or available anywhere?

[NinetySix]

wow looks like i hurt a few peoples feelings :lol:

very lame saying "oh but what if the commodore had this had that!" cause you can always say the same for the suby? :rolleyes:


still, point is, i would have expected more pull on the straight, tho the rex did get out of the corner very well, it hardly got stomped down the straight


tho not that it was much of a straight...

[dominik]

wow looks like i hurt a few peoples feelings :lol:

very lame saying "oh but what if the commodore had this had that!" cause you can always say the same for the suby? :rolleyes: I wouldn't say lame, I'm just curious to see how a lighter LS1 with 300kw would shape up against it on a track (essentially a modified SS, something you won't see in PCOTY tests for example). The GTS has a lot of extra bloat that could be done away with for racing and the SS in stock form is well below its potential. Anyway, you're sh*t stirring by calling it a dunnydore and so I was stirring in reply.


still, point is, i would have expected more pull on the straight, tho the rex did get out of the corner very well, it hardly got stomped down the straightWhat Myles said makes sense... the HSV obviously lost traction coming out of that corner courtesy of a tap in the rear from the STi, so that wasn't a good example for a straight line comparison. How about a nice long straight down at Bathurst? I'm pretty sure they got a stock SS going over 250kph down Conrod straight last year. No way is a stock STi going to win that one.

[IH8WRX]

wow looks like i hurt a few peoples feelings :lol:

very lame saying "oh but what if the commodore had this had that!" cause you can always say the same for the suby? :rolleyes:


still, point is, i would have expected more pull on the straight, tho the rex did get out of the corner very well, it hardly got stomped down the straight


tho not that it was much of a straight...


No it's just a shame that some people don't think before bagging things they know nothing about. Ok hot shot, how bout we give your supposed you beaut STI a run down a 1km straight strip of road against the GTS then and see who trounces who! I think it's rather pathetic with all the latest technology the STI has over a 1700kg+ family four door sedan that still runs a pushrod engine and is driven by 2 whels only with a big heavy gearbox that your Japanese buzz box sporting far better technology can't beat it considering it's 400-500kg lighter and has all four wheels driving it and a far closer ratio purpose built frame, engine and gearbox for motorsport it still can't beat the GTS. Rather sad actually if that's the best technology that comes from the land of the rising sun, considering Holden are using decades old technology in a family transporter.

If I were you I'd be keeping your comments to yourself because it's becoming to easy to show how silly they have been and are! Ohhhhh dear, I forgot something to, are not both the STI and GTS in different classes for the GTP CUP anyway? AND YOU'RE COMPARING THE TWO :lol:

[oz_utester]

Is the full race on DVD or available anywhere?
try foxtel, they race on there

[NinetySix]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Knight Phlier]

that looked pretty damn close considering the gts has a 105kw advantage :eek:

the dunnydoor looked to have bugger all advantage down the straight! and enough disadvantage in the corners to get eaten

I didn't think it was close at all!

The Commodore was clearly in front by the end of the straight. The WRX had a big advantage with the commodore sideways at the start of the straight and still didn't even manage to keep in front :lol:

[jescam]

No it's just a shame that some people don't think before bagging things they know nothing about. Ok hot shot, how bout we give your supposed you beaut STI a run down a 1km straight strip of road against the GTS then and see who trounces who! I think it's rather pathetic with all the latest technology the STI has over a 1700kg+ family four door sedan that still runs a pushrod engine and is driven by 2 whels only with a big heavy gearbox that your Japanese buzz box sporting far better technology can't beat it considering it's 400-500kg lighter and has all four wheels driving it and a far closer ratio purpose built frame, engine and gearbox for motorsport it still can't beat the GTS. Rather sad actually if that's the best technology that comes from the land of the rising sun, considering Holden are using decades old technology in a family transporter.

If I were you I'd be keeping your comments to yourself because it's becoming to easy to show how silly they have been and are! Ohhhhh dear, I forgot something to, are not both the STI and GTS in different classes for the GTP CUP anyway? AND YOU'RE COMPARING THE TWO :lol:

Have to put in my 2 cents worth here! ;)

I have both a modded WRX and a modded VYSS, so i'd like to think i am qualified enough to make a few comments!

In a straight line shoot out, it would be very close........the deciding factor would be getting the WRX off the line perfectly!

I gotta say,when you get it right ,the WRX launches like its been hit up the bum by a freight train! :shock:

But as for a 0-1000m run, i'd have to say my SS may have the edge (i have lower gearing, so it may run out of puff?!) so i am only assuming.

Now, onto corners. :D .............

I have a favourite piece of blacktop which is uphill and combines many tight undulating corners as well as short straights and a couple of hair pins.This drive lasts approx 10-15 mins (never timed it), and of course it is a closed road.

Now bearing in mind i can't drive like Mark Skaife, i can honestly say that i wouldn't have a hope in hell of keeping up to my WRX up that hill in my SS..........forget it, waste of time even trying! :p

The traction my WRX has is unbelievable.The brakes are awesome and its making pretty good power (for a 4 cylinder anyways).

So it depends on what you want in a car, for pure driving pleasure and go-kart like handling......you can't go past the WRX.

Don't get me wrong, i love my VYSS and its a fairly quick car , but its really horses for courses.

As for the STI being the latest technology being available from the rising sun, well if you knew anything regarding Subarus, you would know that Australia in fact doesn't get the latest and greatest available!

Your car sounds like a WRX eater.......... "IH8WRX 23: WRX's 0" , maybe next time you are down south this far, we could go for a drive........i'd like to see how your SS would go up against my WRX up this hill !? :D

Remember, just my 2 cents........well maybe 3 ! ;)

[myles]

How much do workers and researchers get paid building those subarus and other imports?

10 cents an hour? ;) A bag of rice per engine? Or is that being overly generous? :lol:

Imagine what Holden and GM could spend with research & development with so many cheap workers available slaving hour after hour. :p

[my_Berlina]

So Gen III wins in a streight line over a big enough distance (but it is close)

WRX wins in the twisty stuff and if you throw in some damp road

But when it come to Boot space, Rear leg room and towing capacity the Gen III
absolutely KICKS ARSE.

Dave - very happy with his chosen toy!

[dominik]

Imagine what Holden and GM could spend with research & development with so many cheap workers available slaving hour after hour. :pIt's not just the active workers who cost money... "Due to the size of its work force, General Motors has colossal pension obligations. Its pension plan covers 452,000 retirees and their spouses, plus 195,000 active employees in the United States. The company pays $6 billion in annual benefits, as GM employees are living longer and using up more of the pension funds."

Their pension fund is $86B! That's the downside to being an old company. Imagine some of that dough going into R&D instead?


So Gen III wins in a streight line over a big enough distance (but it is close)

WRX wins in the twisty stuff and if you throw in some damp road

But when it come to Boot space, Rear leg room and towing capacity the Gen III
absolutely KICKS ARSE.

Dave - very happy with his chosen toy!Well said. There's usually more to life than just zipping around from A to B by yourself... we've got stuff to bring with us. As for boot space the exception there is the VZ Monaro. Just enough for a bag of decent golf clubs and a few six packs :)

[IH8WRX]

Have to put in my 2 cents worth here! ;)

I have both a modded WRX and a modded VYSS, so i'd like to think i am qualified enough to make a few comments!

In a straight line shoot out, it would be very close........the deciding factor would be getting the WRX off the line perfectly!

I gotta say,when you get it right ,the WRX launches like its been hit up the bum by a freight train! :shock:

But as for a 0-1000m run, i'd have to say my SS may have the edge (i have lower gearing, so it may run out of puff?!) so i am only assuming.

Now, onto corners. :D .............

I have a favourite piece of blacktop which is uphill and combines many tight undulating corners as well as short straights and a couple of hair pins.This drive lasts approx 10-15 mins (never timed it), and of course it is a closed road.

Now bearing in mind i can't drive like Mark Skaife, i can honestly say that i wouldn't have a hope in hell of keeping up to my WRX up that hill in my SS..........forget it, waste of time even trying! :p

The traction my WRX has is unbelievable.The brakes are awesome and its making pretty good power (for a 4 cylinder anyways).

So it depends on what you want in a car, for pure driving pleasure and go-kart like handling......you can't go past the WRX.

Don't get me wrong, i love my VYSS and its a fairly quick car , but its really horses for courses.

As for the STI being the latest technology being available from the rising sun, well if you knew anything regarding Subarus, you would know that Australia in fact doesn't get the latest and greatest available!

Your car sounds like a WRX eater.......... "IH8WRX 23: WRX's 0" , maybe next time you are down south this far, we could go for a drive........i'd like to see how your SS would go up against my WRX up this hill !? :D

Remember, just my 2 cents........well maybe 3 ! ;)


All of my killings have been on streets that were mostly flat at red light shoot outs. So your car should most likely beat a family 4 door sedan weighing 1600kg (SS weight) up a hill, and a tight twisty one at that as that's exactly what WRX/STI's were made for, that being the tight twisty roads of the bush tracks. Once again you're comparing two entirely different purpose built cars.

WRX/STI= Japanese high performance specifically tuned and made sports rally car with AWD, close ratio 6 speed gearbox, special frame the list goes on........weighing about 1300kg & 195kw

GTS= Family 4 door sedan, 2 wheel drive only, pushrod engine weighing 1700kg's with 300kw

So at the end of the day you're comparing a specifically developed rally vehicle to a large everyday family transporter. It's like trying to compare a nice fillet of barramundi to a piece of rib fillet stake!

No I can't comment on what WRX's drive like, because I took two for test drives in 2001 and I simply could not fit in the insanely small and tight seats (horrible yellow STI's). Once again just another example of a purpose made rally/sports vehicle. Hell I'm only about 188cm and about 105kgs so I'm not the worlds biggest guy, admittedly I do have broad shoulders, but no way in hell were my shoulders fitting in between the seats!

[rodp]

that looked pretty damn close considering the gts has a 105kw advantage :eek:

the dunnydoor looked to have bugger all advantage down the straight! and enough disadvantage in the corners to get eaten

You've got an AWD taking a corner and giving the HSV a lovetap, then guns it while the HSV corrects, gets it straight then out accelerates it down a straight. IMO, showed the HSV had a lot more go on a rolling start. Would have expected the Sti to get past it pretty easily after having such an advantage.

[jescam]

WRX/STI= Japanese high performance specifically tuned and made sports rally car with AWD, close ratio 6 speed gearbox, special frame the list goes on........weighing about 1300kg & 195kw

GTS= Family 4 door sedan, 2 wheel drive only, pushrod engine weighing 1700kg's with 300kw

So at the end of the day you're comparing a specifically developed rally vehicle to a large everyday family transporter. It's like trying to compare a nice fillet of barramundi to a piece of rib fillet stake!

Oops, forgive me, but i always thought that a HSV GTS was marketed as a performance car !?......... silly me. :doh:

HSV is obviously wasting their time and money doing this. :p

Isn't an SS commodore also sold as a performance car, be it a more subdued one than a HSV.

And, we really don't want to start comparing prices do we?.........

Subaru WRX - $39,990(m)
Commodore SS - $50,990(m)

Subaru WRX STI - $56,630
HSV Clubsport R8 - $70,990

Did someone say "Bang for your buck" ?


........because I took two for test drives in 2001 and I simply could not fit in the insanely small and tight seats (horrible yellow STI's).......

Unless i am mistaken, Subaru Australia didn't sell a yellow STI.
(They did have 1 yellow 2 door that was a pre-prod model that was used for media evaluation before its official launch.)

You are more than likely thinking of an Evo model, this is not a STI !


But when it come to Boot space, Rear leg room and towing capacity the Gen III
absolutely KICKS ARSE.

I agree 100%, for room the 2 cars can't be compared, but the comparison here is in regards to performance. :)

This is not a Commodore slagging post, its an unbiased view from someone who owns both a WRX and an SS, so don't take it personally and don't blow a gasket! :mad: :wave:

[IH8WRX]

Oops, forgive me, but i always thought that a HSV GTS was marketed as a performance car !?......... silly me. :doh:

HSV is obviously wasting their time and money doing this. :p

Isn't an SS commodore also sold as a performance car, be it a more subdued one than a HSV.

And, we really don't want to start comparing prices do we?.........

Subaru WRX - $39,990(m)
Commodore SS - $50,990(m)

Subaru WRX STI - $56,630
HSV Clubsport R8 - $70,990

Did someone say "Bang for your buck" ?



Unless i am mistaken, Subaru Australia didn't sell a yellow STI.
(They did have 1 yellow 2 door that was a pre-prod model that was used for media evaluation before its official launch.)

You are more than likely thinking of an Evo model, this is not a STI !



I agree 100%, for room the 2 cars can't be compared, but the comparison here is in regards to performance. :)

This is not a Commodore slagging post, its an unbiased view from someone who owns both a WRX and an SS, so don't take it personally and don't blow a gasket! :mad: :wave:




Now you know why I said it's like comparing a nice fillet of barramundi to a piece of rib fillet steak :rolleyes: . Different cars, built for different purposes! Yes sure Holden and HSV market the SS & GTS as performance cars respectively, HOWEVER they are both built and made the same chasis wise and still concentrate on carrying a family of 4 and all thier paraphenalia, where as the WRX & STI are purposely built and made with rallying in mind, with far more componentary designed and aimed at motorsport i.e. close ratio gearbox, AWD etc.

The two WRX's I took for a spin were a horrible mustard yellow colour and I think thay may have even said "Clubspec" on them? Either way it didn't matter as both were built for someone 5'5" and 60kg and across the other side of the world, not someone who isn't vertically challenged and has a bigger appetite

[dominik]

A better comparison would be the WRX vs. the SS (or the $43K SV8), and the STi vs. a Clubsport R8. The $10K price difference between the WRX and the SS has a lot to do with how competitive the Japanese car market is and the sheer volume of cars they ship worldwide. I'm not making excuses, I'm just stating a fact. How can we compete with the Japanese for "bang for your buck?" Anyway, for the extra $10k you're getting more horsepower (250kw vs 168kw <- and that's measured with the slightly more generous DIN) and torque (470nm vs 300nm) and all without a lagging hairdryer. We all know the kinds of figures possible for an LS1/LS2 with forced induction.

Me personally, I like both cars for completely different reasons. I realized a long time ago they're entirely different breeds and it's pointless comparing them over and over. As IH8WRX pointed out, they were designed for completely different markets and conditions.

[jescam]

Me personally, I like both cars for completely different reasons. I realized a long time ago they're entirely different breeds and it's pointless comparing them over and over. As IH8WRX pointed out, they were designed for completely different markets and conditions.

Then why are you guys comparing them ? :rolleyes:

I know the HSV's and SS's are built from the foundations of base models, but WRX's and STI's are built from a base model to.Haven't you ever seen a Impreza GX?

HSV spends millions in development to transform them into a performance car, as does STI. So using the base model excuse is really pathetic! :nutkick: (Not sure if this icon is relevant, but i get a laff outta it)

In the video which was posted showing the GTS and the STI, was the STI carrying a weight penalty, which they do quite often when they win a race in an effort to slow them down ?!

[dominik]

Then why are you guys comparing them ? :rolleyes: There's nothing wrong with comparing the cars in a race which is what the original post was about. What I meant was I see them as two very different types of vehicles so I don't go comparing them feature by feature, or, the WRX costs this and the SS costs that.


I know the HSV's and SS's are built from the foundations of base models, but WRX's and STI's are built from a base model to.Haven't you ever seen a Impreza GX?Yep, and I mentioned the RS earlier. 0-100 in 8.9 seconds. In other words, a WRX without a turbo is essentially an RS.


HSV spends millions in development to transform them into a performance car, as does STI. So using the base model excuse is really pathetic! :nutkick: (Not sure if this icon is relevant, but i get a laff outta it)I can't speak for anyone else, but the point I was making is the GTS is not only a performance vehicle; jump inside one and compare the interior to an SS. Big difference. There's a lot of extra stuff weighing it down in the name of luxury which is what a lot of buyers expect when they pay over $90K. All I said was I'd like to see the guts of a GTS in a lighter SS. I don't think that's a pathetic statement at all. A lot of guys here would like a stripped back GTS that tips the scales under 1600kg.

[IH8WRX]

Then why are you guys comparing them ? :rolleyes:

I know the HSV's and SS's are built from the foundations of base models, but WRX's and STI's are built from a base model to.Haven't you ever seen a Impreza GX?

HSV spends millions in development to transform them into a performance car, as does STI. So using the base model excuse is really pathetic! :nutkick: (Not sure if this icon is relevant, but i get a laff outta it)

In the video which was posted showing the GTS and the STI, was the STI carrying a weight penalty, which they do quite often when they win a race in an effort to slow them down ?!


Look I really CBF entertaining a shit fight over an internet forum. I frequent this site as I find the people on here mostly mature compared to some of the other sites I frequent. As for that pathetic "kick in the nuts" emoticon, gee how mature of you. Nice to know when you have your back to the wall you have to fight dirty to win :rolleyes: Maybe Jessie Kelly is your real name?

Bottom line is the WRX and most importantly the STI are purpose made motorsport cars, aimed at high performance rallying, where as the GTS is a family four door sedan with luxury and power for families. The GTS is not made for any form of motorsport, unlike the STI! Christ even the GTS stands for it Grand Touring Sports (GTS). How many GTS's do you see in the WRC or other forms of international motorsport? That's right you don't, but you sure do see heaps of STI's!

If you want a fair comparison, why not take an SV8 which is simply an LS1 Executive V's the GX Imprezar. Both are the bottom of the ladder cars from each manafacturer.

[forcedindction]

I've been reading this forum for a while now and it seems to me that most people here are obsessed with rwkw and straight line speed !!!!! Despite the huge advances with the introduction of the LS1, the performance gap over these "ricers" is either not bridged or eclipsed by much. Something is just not apparent to many of us !!! The difference between a great car and a mediocre one is not just in the engine department, it is the whole package (i.e chassis, suspension, aerodynamics, braking etc..), and to be quite honest, and has been mentioned on this board before by other owners, the current chassis etc.. is not up to par with the motor.

Where does all this "brand loyalty" come from !!! The mind boggles. What do you owe to a particular car manufacturer ?? Why do many jump up in arms to defend their beloved vehcile and are quick to ridecule others (e.g ricers) ?? Usually without just cause.

Is the STi better than the HSV ? It depends. Which would I prefer, that depends on the intended function. I like them both for differnet reasons.

You know, I used to really love V8s when I was young. For me there wasn't another type of vehicle I'd ever consider driving. But that all changed when (please don't lynch me), the WRX was born. Not that it was anything tremendous, but it made me realise that I'd been too focused on a particular choice of vehicle and that I had been limiting my choices.

I think we could all take off our blinkers and "appreciate" the greater choices of vehicles available to us today.

[IH8WRX]

I've been reading this forum for a while now and it seems to me that most people here are obsessed with rwkw and straight line speed !!!!! Despite the huge advances with the introduction of the LS1, the performance gap over these "ricers" is either not bridged or eclipsed by much. Something is just not apparent to many of us !!! The difference between a great car and a mediocre one is not just in the engine department, it is the whole package (i.e chassis, suspension, aerodynamics, braking etc..), and to be quite honest, and has been mentioned on this board before by other owners, the current chassis etc.. is not up to par with the motor.

Where does all this "brand loyalty" come from !!! The mind boggles. What do you owe to a particular car manufacturer ?? Why do many jump up in arms to defend their beloved vehcile and are quick to ridecule others (e.g ricers) ?? Usually without just cause.

Is the STi better than the HSV ? It depends. Which would I prefer, that depends on the intended function. I like them both for differnet reasons.

You know, I used to really love V8s when I was young. For me there wasn't another type of vehicle I'd ever consider driving. But that all changed when (please don't lynch me), the WRX was born. Not that it was anything tremendous, but it made me realise that I'd been too focused on a particular choice of vehicle and that I had been limiting my choices.

I think we could all take off our blinkers and "appreciate" the greater choices of vehicles available to us today.


That's what I've been trying to say the whole time! If I needed a small quick car and I lived in the city and enjoyed hillclimbs, rally etc I'd buy a WRX in a flash, but I have no need for any of those hence why I bought an LS1 SS. I needed a family size car with plenty of torque for the long straight stretches of roads our country has, and room for 4 adults to fit in comfortably. Like I said over and over again comparing the two is like trying to compare barramundi to rib fillet steak. Simply being you can't compare them to each other!

[dominik]

forcedindction, I agree with what you said, along with what IH8WRX just posted. We keep coming back to it, horses for courses. Each has its pros and cons.

A little 5'5" 60kg dude with no family might have a blast zipping around in a WRX like a little kid in a go-cart. Put a guy over 6ft and 100kg in it with a family and it's a different story. It all comes down to your own needs.

re: straight line performance, it isn't the be all and end all but how many WRXs do you think have sold on 0-100 times alone? Not for offroad rallying, not on looks (just my opinion here but she sure ain't pretty!), etc. In other words, how many of those guys just wanted to kick arse at the lights so they bought a WRX? And if so, that's straight line performance plain and simple which isn't much different to a guy modding his V8 for the faster track times on weekends.

[myles]

Exactly, depends on your needs. The guy who buys a HSV or a Holden LS1 can take his wife and kids in style, comfort and with great power.

The guy in the WRX, well he can take himself and maybe a mate (preferably not a heavy set or solid guy, you'd have to choose which mate), and fly around the corners and launch like a rocket.

But riding in comfort? No. The guy in the WRX would need that speed and traction to get from A to B in record time, would have to drop his mate off and make a second trip back to pick up the cartons of beer and the fishing gear. ;)

While the HSV, he'd still get there with his wife and kids and everything else on board still in record time. (Oh and leave the WRX in the dust on the freeway) :) :driving: :burnout:

[dominik]

forcedindction, one more thing I wanted to add...

re: straight line performance, I reckon we're all obsessed with it. If the WRX did everything it does right now but was a couple of seconds slower, do you think they would have sold like hotcakes? This isn't a dig at WRX drivers, just an observation, but I've got a few friends who are diehard Jap car fans say our cars are big and slow. Emphasis on "slow." Now that they know there are SS's cruising around pulling 0-100 times in the high 4s and quicker and they have no way of knowing where the next belting at the lights will come from, maybe that's starting to get to them. rwkw, 0-100, 1/4 mile times, surely the WRX guys care every bit about all that as we do. Or do you disagree?

[jasonrouse]

There is more to a race than 0-100kph, which alot of wrx drivers seem to think.

0-100, yeah wrx might have the edge..... 100 - 200kph? I know which car i would be choosing.


Oh by the way, Sept 98 Motor mag, motor employees had difficaulty getting the MY99 WRX past 209kph down the 3 km straight.

HSVs regulary do 250kph down the same straight, SS bout 10kph slower.

Bang for buck?

[exwrx]

Forcedinduction is the only person talking any sense here.

WRX's purpose built as race cars? :confused: They are based on a cheap city car with upgraded drivelines. They have as much in common with the WRC cars as an SS commodore has to a V8 supercar.

This debate is getting tiring on both sides of the fence. The only thing I can add is to take the 'opposition' for a drive one day and then pass comment.

[Zombee]

This is hopeless...

HSV = MUSCLE CAR = PURE GRUNT
WRX = RALLY CAR = PURE HANDLING

Deep down we all respect them both for what they have been designed to do..and do really well...

End of argument...

Zombee :)

[Gto_255]

This is hopeless...

HSV = MUSCLE CAR = PURE GRUNT
WRX = RALLY CAR = PURE HANDLING

Deep down we all respect them both for what they have been designed to do..and do really well...

End of argument...

Zombee :)

You forgot to mention.

WRX = UGLY

[Zombee]

You forgot to mention.

WRX = UGLY


Err...What does that have to do with the topic??

Zombee :)

[Merlin]

worst thread ever :hide:

lol

[Gto_255]

When you buy a car you don't wanna get sore eyes from looking at it's disgusting face every morning. :D

[jescam]

Look I really CBF entertaining a shit fight over an internet forum. I frequent this site as I find the people on here mostly mature compared to some of the other sites I frequent. As for that pathetic "kick in the nuts" emoticon, gee how mature of you. Nice to know when you have your back to the wall you have to fight dirty to win :rolleyes: Maybe Jessie Kelly is your real name?

Couldn't agree with you more, as for the emoticon comment, no need to start those sort of remarks.Its called having a sense of humour, judging by your number plates you would have to have some level of sense of humour ?


This is hopeless...

HSV = MUSCLE CAR = PURE GRUNT
WRX = RALLY CAR = PURE HANDLING

Deep down we all respect them both for what they have been designed to do..and do really well...

End of argument...



worst thread ever :hide:

Totally and completely agree :yup:

I read a few forums and rarely add to the topics.............now i know why!

COMMODORE V8's RULE............Happy now ?! :cheers:

I'm going back into the shadows! :wave:

[myles]

Someone summed it up perfectly....


Originally Posted by Zombee
This is hopeless...

HSV = MUSCLE CAR = PURE GRUNT
WRX = RALLY CAR = PURE HANDLING

Deep down we all respect them both for what they have been designed to do..and do really well...

End of argument...

Merlin, thanks for your input. :lol: You the icing on the cake (thread)? ;)