Beating Depreciation On New Cars

[pah]

Hi all,

I've just read the "SV8's Hard To Sell or Everything??? entry by "Wonky".

One way to minimise depreciation is to buy the new car at the right price.

I'm able to get corporate price through my employer and that knocks $5k straight off the top no questions asked. And rest assured that that is not the maximum fleet discount. I've been quoted $10k discounts. I was quoted just under $29k for a brand new SV8 when I bought mine in 2003.

That's one of the reasons why there's such a big depreciation on the new cars that we buy. We're competing against people who bought their cars for peanuts on a fleet discount scheme.

READ THIS BIT PLEASE: We've got MUSLCE! How many members do we have in LS1.com? If we can't use our muscle to arrange good deals for ourselves, we not interested in saving a buck.

Maybe we need permission from the owners of the LS1.com web site to approach Holden Dealers as LS1.com members? Maybe the LS1.com owners can do a bit of spade work on our behalf.

Is anybody else interested in trying to establish some sort of discount for LS1.com members? I'm happy to chase this one up. Please let me know if you agree. Let's see what we can do.




PAH

[paul05]

do you really think HOLDEN give a shit about you or anyone one else being a ls1 member :lol: when you wake up, please smell the roses. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[LSX-438]

Pah,

not a bad sentiment mate. perhaps the way to go would be for the forum to hook up with an existing fleet management company, who perhaps get access to national fleet discount.

[jneil]

Good idea, we could have cooked up something with Nickh, and we could all get them at the same time.

The dude places the like:
I'll have 8 SS's, 3 in red, 2 in black and the rest in silver, 2 red and 2 silvers in auto form
give me 5 SV8's all red and all autos
hmmm....i have 3 clubsports, all manual, 2 black and a silver
and....that Calais over there!!

Then they'd say:
would you like a free Barina with that :lol:

[Oldmonroman]

All Holdens are over priced there is you answer. If they can sell a Monaro in the States for 18K cheaper with a a LS2 in it you can see how we are getting ripped off, yes I know they have 17in wheels yes I know they don't have climate control but remember the CV6 had the above and they were 53K heaps more then a US GTO with a LS2 in it

[LSX-438]

Getting Older I agree with you about the CV8 and te GTO prices. Even at full retail $32kUS that is only about $42k aussie. The extras the local munro gets is worth nothing in this context.

However the USA is 10x the market, you can get an M3 for less than half we pay here. Relatively (versus our tiny market) I think Holdens are still great value. We are lucky to have tasty big powered RWD cars like this.

[Falcon Freak]

One way to minimise depreciation is to buy the new car at the right price

You are Albert Einstein I presume?

FF

[pah]

Pah,

not a bad sentiment mate. perhaps the way to go would be for the forum to hook up with an existing fleet management company, who perhaps get access to national fleet discount.

Hi FORRESTD,

Thanks for the positive feedback mate.

I've already purchased my car at a substantial discount. I've also received a written quote for a new VZ SS ($5k off the top no haggling required) so I know that these discounts are out there to be had.

I also know that these types of discounts ARE NOT just available for businesses. There are brokers in the Asian community that wangle significant discounts for those in their circle of friends.

Any couple of dudes that walk into a Holden Dealer requesting a package deal on "two of" are morfe likely to get a better deal than one guy who walks in and asks for one car. The bottom line is that ANY Holden Dealer is going to be more than interested in doing a deal with an org such as LS1 that has a large number of members who are interested in Holden products.

A previous boss introduced me to a Fleet Sales Manager when I bought my SV8 - that's how I know how much savings there are to be had.

I've got the name and number of the broker that I currently deal with - that may be one possibility. I'm not sure if he's willing and able to help non-business institutions such as LS1.com but "nothing ventured - nothing gained".

There's probably an issue around us advertising a Holden Dealer on the LS1.com web site. I wonder if the owners would allow us to publish the names of Holden Dealers on this web site? It might be seen as free advertising for the dealer. On the other hand, we're the bread and butter of this site. If we weren't here, there'd be no attraction for the advertisers. I wonder if the site owners would allow us to promote (one way or another) Holden Dealers that look after members? It's already been done to some extent (but not with official banners).

Maybe a starting point would be to discuss the idea with LS1.com. If your fleet suggestion works out, well and good. If not, then maybe it would be worthwhile checking out if a broker is interested in helping members. If the broker that I have in mind can't help, I think I might be able to enlist the help of the guy who helps private buyers. The problem is that this guy is based in Sydney.

People in other states might have to do their own leg work.




PAH

[LSX-438]

the thing is, if you pick your timing right, just about anyone can get discounts equal to national fleet. especially around runout time. case in point you can buy new VY2's (obviously been sitting around for a while and might not be your first colour or tranny choice) right now that are cheaper to buy new versus what they are asking second hand on the car lots, with say 10,000 ~ 20,000km on them. If you are keen I would research if there haven been any programmes in the USA where online communities have arranged upfront discounts, and perhaps try their model.

[paulvdb]

Any couple of dudes that walk into a Holden Dealer requesting a package deal on "two of" are morfe likely to get a better deal than one guy who walks in and asks for one car. The bottom line is that ANY Holden Dealer is going to be more than interested in doing a deal with an org such as LS1 that has a large number of members who are interested in Holden products.
PAH - that's true but you need to realise that to get the really serious prices the dealer needs to be able to specify that it's a fleet deal, usually with a company. That way they get their rebate from Holden to cover the extra discount. Dealers only have so much margin to play with plus small rebates to help move unwanted cars. The major deals are made with the manufacturers, not the dealers. I'm not trying to put you off (as Holden are much more flexible in their understanding of a fleet) but you may need to think how you can park this under a company name.

[Danv8]

However the USA is 10x the market, you can get an M3 for less than half we pay here. Relatively (versus our tiny market) I think Holdens are still great value. We are lucky to have tasty big powered RWD cars like this.[/QUOTE]

100% agreed
Calling all Holdens overpriced is also calling All Fords overpriced as well. We are very lucky to get these cars not everyone want to drive around in a piss can FWD box. :)

[VooDoo]

Seeing Zupps is a sponsor and will happily ship cars anywhere why not contact them. The service there is as close to perfect as you could want and i know planty of ppl that bought their cars there (myself included)

Im sure a LS1.com.AU discount could be negotiated but it will depend on volume. They arent the first dealer to be a sponsor and the last one did some great deals from what i could tell.

[nols1yet]

I gotta say this would be a cool idea in practice....

Only prob would be that if such a deal was worked out with and dealership, I can just imagine every idiot out there with a net connection joining up purely to get the "discount". While that would mean heaps more "personell clout" it would also mean heaps more fools floating around the forums, and the net. I for one am a big fan of keeping idiots away from any sort of technology.. :p

[LSX-438]

perhaps someone could start with posting a table of national fleet discounts (is that public anywhere?) that should give people an idea of the fat available. btw there are a couple of U.S. websites that publish dealer invoice prices. quite often a lot of people just dont know what kind of discounts are possible, dealers naturally operate under that assertion.

[GEN III]

Seeing Zupps is a sponsor and will happily ship cars anywhere why not contact them. The service there is as close to perfect as you could want and i know planty of ppl that bought their cars there (myself included)

Im sure a LS1.com.AU discount could be negotiated but it will depend on volume. They arent the first dealer to be a sponsor and the last one did some great deals from what i could tell.

See the thing is they maybe named Zupps and are sponsers of the site but there not all the same. I'm aware your a Big fan of the MtGravatt branch and I must say the guy's there are professional and the layout is stunning, but please do not put the Greenbank/Brown Plains Zupps in the same category. They are a bunch of money hungry manipulative assholes, that don’t know shit about there stock. The HSV guy there (if his still there) is a complete moron.

Some of you may have had some good experiances with them, but most locals know not to go there.

[markone2]

See the thing is they maybe named Zupps and are sponsers of the site but there not all the same. I'm aware your a Big fan of the MtGravatt branch and I must say the guy's there are professional and the layout is stunning, but please do not put the Greenbank/Brown Plains Zupps in the same category. They are a bunch of money hungry manipulative assholes, that don’t know shit about there stock. The HSV guy there (if his still there) is a complete moron.

Some of you may have had some good experiances with them, but most locals know not to go there.



;) I'll give Scott the opportunity to air his views 1st.......before I start...but we are sure on the right track...

[HSVREDSLED]

My 2 cents worth.

I bought a VY series 1 Clubsport brand new on a run out sale. At the time, I drove it out of the showroom for a cheaper price than if I was to purchase a VYII SS????) Work it out???

But.....

I am thinking an even better way to beat depreciation is to buy second hand!!! Everyone says, "but you dont know if the car has been thrashed or not...", yet when people post here about running in a new car, everyone says, "...drive them hard..." Also, the new car driving experience was no as enjoyable as I thought it would be. The car was too tight, and I dont think the performance kicked in till about 15,000 ks.

So..me thinks second hand LS2 with about 15,000 will be for me when it comes time to update.

[chevypower]

I might be naiive, but can't you just get an ABN and register a business name as a sole trader if you don't have one (costs $70), put the car in your business name, and through your accountant use depreciation and the interest on the loan for your add-backs? I know commercial vehicles are 100% tax deductable, but you should at least get to claim depreciation and finance on a passanger car? If this is not a viable option, get a friend who runs a good business to put it in their business name, and pay them the difference between the costs and the add-backs! With that option you may even get fleet discount!

[SSBarney]

I might be naiive, but can't you just get an ABN and register a business name as a sole trader if you don't have one (costs $70), put the car in your business name, and through your accountant use depreciation and the interest on the loan for your add-backs? I know commercial vehicles are 100% tax deductable, but you should at least get to claim depreciation and finance on a passanger car? If this is not a viable option, get a friend who runs a good business to put it in their business name, and pay them the difference between the costs and the add-backs! With that option you may even get fleet discount!

Yes you are naiive. :lol:
Simply having the car registered as a business vehicle does not give u a tax deduction. There are specific statutory methods for determining the business use and private use of a vehicle. Only business use is deductible.
Another little handicap is that an artificial transaction like what u suggest is called tax evasion. :D

[VooDoo]

Yes you are naiive. :lol:
Simply having the car registered as a business vehicle does not give u a tax deduction. There are specific statutory methods for determining the business use and private use of a vehicle. Only business use is deductible.
Another little handicap is that an artificial transaction like what u suggest is called tax evasion. :D

Correct but there are ways of claiming vehicles that are legal. An ABN means very little. I claim my car as a deduction every year and dont require an ABN.

When im next in at Zupps ill bring up this topic with them and see what can be done.

[clixanup]

All Holdens are over priced there is you answer.

Personally, I think its lucky we don't live in the UK. For the price we pay for a V8 Calais or Fairmont Ghia they get a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla.

They come here and can't believe that we can buy full size 6 cylinder & V8 sedans and feed them relatively cheaply.

[VYBerlinaV8]

As far as getting new car discounts go, it seems to me that the greater the volume, the greater the discount. There are a few ways to do this:

1) Join up with an existing fleet service provider
2) Form our own fleet service provider, and / or join up with other groups wishing to get a discount
3) Have a quarterly "purchase day" when forum members who wish to buy a new car submit their vehicle choice, and then the full list of vehicles goes out to our favourite dealers for tender (ie lowest overall cost wins, discount shared pro rata amongst purchasers)

I think at this stage we should float as many ideas as possible.

[clixanup]

Correct but there are ways of claiming vehicles that are legal. An ABN means very little. I claim my car as a deduction every year and dont require an ABN.

You are correct.

ABNs are only required where you are running a business. You don't have to be running a business to claim tax deductions.

Some dealers give additional discount if you buy the car with an ABN (i.e. under a business name), but this has nothing to do with GST and there is no legal requirement to do it.

[GEN III]

;) I'll give Scott the opportunity to air his views 1st.......before I start...but we are sure on the right track...


So your saying you agree? :bash:

[chevypower]

You are correct.

ABNs are only required where you are running a business. You don't have to be running a business to claim tax deductions.

Some dealers give additional discount if you buy the car with an ABN (i.e. under a business name), but this has nothing to do with GST and there is no legal requirement to do it.

ok, cos car dealers have asked me if I had an ABN, this may be applicable to commercial vehicles, and my thoughts were registering a business name would make it more difficult for anyone to prove that you weren't using the vehicle for business use.

[clixanup]

and my thoughts were registering a business name would make it more difficult for anyone to prove that you weren't using the vehicle for business use.
No, because it isn't up to them to prove that you weren't. It is up to you to prove that you were. Its like any other tax deduction. As long as you can substantiate your claim you're fine. For cars (excluding vans & one tonne utes) you should keep a logbook of your work related travel for 3 contiguous months of the financial year. As with all laws there are exceptions and variations, but that is the general rule.

[SSBarney]

Correct but there are ways of claiming vehicles that are legal. An ABN means very little. I claim my car as a deduction every year and dont require an ABN.

When im next in at Zupps ill bring up this topic with them and see what can be done.

Agreed. Voodoo
As I understand it you operate your own business, so totally different story to attempting to present an artificial business for the purposes of claiming depreciation and other expenses.

[Dacious]

The original poster is overlooking a couple of significant factors:

1. Every dealer is a separate entity and indeed a separate 'company' to Holde, who merely wholesale them cars under certain conditions - how they deal with you is not uniform. How many Holden dealers are there in Australia? Dealers are not and can not be obliged to honour fleet discount or any other promotional deals Holden advertises, becauses price fixing and product dumping (even in terms of discounts) is illegal and anti-competitive. That';s why the ads always say 'at your participating Holden dealer....'

2. Margin on new cars is 4/5ths of bugger all. Deals on older-build cars are because the floorplan (dealer loan on stock) is costing more than the discount or because Holden is clearing out excess stock by rebating the dealers or offering new cars at bargains wholesale to move the cars, so the dealers can buy some newer stock. Again, its' cheaper longterm and less of a loss than having cars sitting in storage.

3. Once you go over Jan 1, even with a current model the market considers it superceded. Buy a last-years' plate build car like I did and get $8-9K off. After three-four of years the difference between identical models with one being the older build date is negligible, unless one is significantly updated like VT 1 with 5.0 compared to VT2 with 5.7.

Beating depreciation?

Buy an exclusive vehicle that is in demand. Lindsay Fox just sold one of his two Gullwing Mercedes for $500K. Obviously it cost a bit to buy, though....

Or as someone noted, buy low-K's secondhand and let someone else take the hit. Hopefully they will get the warrranty niggles out, too. I know people who do nothing but this.

[nickh]

well i like ur idea of the group discount however there are many many issues in this way of thinking..

while i worked at Doncaster Holden i got them to sponcer this site and would almost offer weekly to monthy updates with lists apon list of discounted cars ( i mean prices i think back and say gees why did we we offer that..) i sent quite a few cars interestate and 99% were drama free .However over 80% of the ppl here(on this forum) that have theres cars are leased...and their company normally have agreements with lease companys that have agreements with Holden and Holden Dealerships... i think its a flip coin when it comes to prices....as i told alot of ppl best price never ever means best deal yet 99% of ppl just dont seem to get that though their head...

as for price a car is broken down into parts ill give an example.(this may vary alittle as its been 6 months since i saw these sort of figures)

*RRP say on a VZ SS is $51290 plus any options
*then you have Dealer delievery this fee is not allowed to be more than $1495
*and ORC's (this carnt be discounted as its a state/national tax)

ok now the $51290 price is made up like this...
$51290 RRP
$5490 Dealer margin
$1300 FPA (Floor plan assistance)
$900 Holdback

so total margin that a dealer may have avaiable is near $7690 maxium then you have the margin in the dealer delivery...now it costs around $390 to pre deliever a car(no big options required or transport costs) so that leaves another $1100 in it also remeber there are margins in options that you choose..eg $36 or so in m/paint and the list goes on and on...how anything past that is either a rebate/bonus from holden which is normally half of what ever they are offering eg free leather and c/control (say in $1250 is what the dealer will recieve from holden to carry that offer)

but there is NO EXTRA discount for National fleet companys eg what happens is that companys that run over 100 cars or agree to buy at least 15 cars a year from Holden will be classed at a national fleet partner and be added to a list and they will get that discount straight of the bat (say around $5900 off a "SS" ) and then many dealers will do another $1000 over above that of national fleet for Dealers to become a preferred lease company dealer they will enter an agreement that the dealer will always offer $1000 plus discount std arcross the range (where margin allows for this) eg its not going to happen on a barina.However large companys get a rebate that goes stright from Holden directly to the company (eg this can be anywhere between $500 plus per car up to extra $1000's) which the dealer doesnt see or often never knows.. also there are one off things which if a company that dosent fit the run more than 100 cars but the company may be buying say more than 6 cars at the one time they are able to apply for a 4C which is paperwork that Holden look at and then offer extra bonus to obtain business

now think about this....from my experiance where i used to work the dealership would sell around 120-140 cars amonth of which 80-100 of those are fleet deals...so retail will only sell around 30-40 cars a month so the large part of business comes from that fleet area..ppl that come off the floor to buy a SS can get great prices on there new car however it just make sence that you will not be offered these fleet prices straight of the bat and why should a dealership do that ?your a client thats buying one car compared to companys that buy 100s a year?

but remeber always buy a car from stock also ask about cars that have been in stock more than 60 days(a dealer will 90% of the time a better deal on a car instock and than even better if its been around a while..)

when u get ur discount DONT COMPLAIN when it comes to trade in time you screwed the company for the BEST PRICE when you brought it so now you cop it return but to many ppl here want there cake and eat it...meaning best price drive away and the best trade in figure...(which what dealers will do is give you an amazing price on the new car and then low ball you on the trade in ) my best bet would be to shop around for trade ins prices (at least 3 figures.remeber to wash and present the car in a clean state and anything that sticks out as been damaged or untidy fix it before you go as it can make a HUGE differance with trade in figures)

my last bit of advise is that dont listen to what price ppl tell you they got as its 99%of it is bullshit .everyone likes to say that they got amazing price so remeber its NOT ALWAYS ABOUT PRICE but the process ?was it pain free happy exerise? did they do what they said they would do ? time frames are what they said it would be? and the list goes on.... having said that if you need a hand pointing you in thr right direction when it comes to buying a car send me a pm

cheers guys and i hope that helps alittle..

[Swordie]

It would be great if we could get access to dealer's auctions. Apart from getting an LMCT Licence I don't know how to get in.

[exwrx]

Great post Nick - very informative ;)

[VYBerlinaV8]

but remeber always buy a car from stock also ask about cars that have been in stock more than 60 days(a dealer will 90% of the time a better deal on a car instock and than even better if its been around a while..)



That is so true. The last 2 new cars I have bought have been really good deals, and the way this has happened is by building a relationship with a particular salesman at my local Holden dealership and saying to him "I want this type of car - what have you got in stock that you need to get rid of"?. Obviously choice is a bit limited, but for the right price, I was still very happy! :)

On the weekend I went looking for a new car for my missus (an Astra - yawn), and they had cars in stock that were almost a year old!!! The deals they were offering on these particular cars were really good.