Plea to all Camed M6 LS1 owners with 3.9s

[Red-Drop]

Dear All,

As you a few of you are aware I'm puttering around in a VY SS M6, I've reworked the exhaust had the 3.9's put in done the mafless tune, and if they finaly get around to making them i'll install my over the radiator cold air intake.

This unfortunaltey has not fufilled my desire to go faster now I'm looking into cams as a brief stop over before I go turbo (the cam would come out when the turbo goes in). Im hoping to get into comfortable 12's preferably 12.7 and below.

The car is my daily driver, So what i need to know is What sizes are people running, how is the drivability in the city traffic but more importantly are any of you camed M6 3.9 owners willing to let me have a drive of your cars to let me get a better feel of what I'm looking for?

[lautray]

You don't need a cam to do a 12.7 ;) :D

[Red-Drop]

You don't need a cam to do a 12.7 ;) :D

What do you need then?

[lautray]

What do you need then?

Sounds like you already got the bolt-ons. Maybe a little practice at wsid & presto..... 12.xx et's & 110+mph. Worked for me :D

[Febs]

What do you need then?

A freak car like Lautray's. ;)
Your 102mph is a long way from 110mph. :)

[Beej]

Sounds like you already got the bolt-ons. Maybe a little practice at wsid & presto..... 12.xx et's & 110+mph. Worked for me :D

Lautray - your car is a freak! - have you had it since new?? Sure it has a stock cam and that someone hasn't slipped an LS6 cam or something in there or some mildly ported heads? 110+MPH consistenstly is at the top of the curve for bolt-ons, most of us only managed to get 107-ish MPH tops, and I have been involved with trying to get quite a few bolt-in M6 cars into the 12s in addition to my own - very few make it so you are a lucky man!

Red-drop; As for the original enquiry: I have a Comp Cam XE-High Lift 222/224@112LSA cam in my VTII SS with 3.9s and it's an M6 - with a good tune this cam is totally driveable - my girlfriend actually reckons the car is easier to drive in traffic now than it ever has been. With this cam you would be looking at around 250-260-ish rwkw on Sams dynolog dyno, with power peaking at around 6000rpm, but also incredible pull/torque from 2000rpm up compared to a stock motor. With the right set-up that power and cam could see very low 12s or even high 11s (probably would need slicks though). In street trim mid-high 12s are easy and achievable all day. I've only been to the strip once since I had the cam and did several runs of flat 13s@110-112MPH on a hot/humid day and with crap 60ft times due to hard tyres and a half stuffed clutch. Since then I've focussing on my circuit racing so haven't been back to the 1/4 mile strip to try again.

Cheers,

Beej

[OscarTheGrouch]

Well I'm running a 230/230 cam @ 110 lsa....

The drivability is just fine - it has a nice lope at idle (around 1000rpm), it does tend to "hunt" a tiny bit at really low speed (say under 10kph) but it's not a hassle really... other than that it's fine. It is really really smooth and anyone could drive it (providing they have a strong left leg, has a heavy duty clutch and the pedal is a lot heavier than the stocker!) :)

I would happily let you drive it but you're a bit far away... if all else fails (I'm sure you'll get volunteers here anyway) my suggestion would be to speak to the folks who are doing the work, assuming they're a performance shop that does a fair few LS1s (Sam's for example) I'm sure they'd be able to hook you up with a drive.

[Red-Drop]

Any chance of a quick drive arround the block beej?

[Beej]

Any chance of a quick drive arround the block beej?

PM me - I'm O/S for work from tomorrow until Thu week so bad timing I'm afraid! If you are still interested we could organise something for when I get back. I will have access to the net though so will still be reading my PMs and this forum etc while I am away.

Cheers,

Beej

[hithere]

I just put in Comp Cam GEN III/LS1/LS6 350 Xtreme RPM Cam (Part Number: 54-416-11, Cam Grind Number: XR273HR) and 25% under driven balancer plus Mafless and getting mid 12's on street tyres repeatedly. With practice, I think I can get it down lower 12s. I would agree with previous post. With the power coming in earlier in the rev range, it is easier to drive daily. It shakes a little (you can feel it inside but not noticable from the outside) at the lights but nothing crazy. If you really can't handle it, just put the A/C ON and it will stop! :)

Only problem I have now is the clutch. I can see it is not going to last too long!!

I am in Melbourne so I can't help you with the test drive.

If you are power hungry (and it sounds like you are with turbo around the corner), you will enjoy it. All of my mates who drove it was impressed with the final outcome.

One other thing... this cam does not give you big numbers on the dyno (242rwkw). But it goes quicker than the numbers suggests... if that makes sense?



Dear All,
This unfortunaltey has not fufilled my desire to go faster now I'm looking into cams as a brief stop over before I go turbo (the cam would come out when the turbo goes in). Im hoping to get into comfortable 12's preferably 12.7 and below.

The car is my daily driver, So what i need to know is What sizes are people running, how is the drivability in the city traffic but more importantly are any of you camed M6 3.9 owners willing to let me have a drive of your cars to let me get a better feel of what I'm looking for?

[lautray]

Lautray - your car is a freak! - have you had it since new?? Sure it has a stock cam and that someone hasn't slipped an LS6 cam or something in there or some mildly ported heads? 110+MPH consistenstly is at the top of the curve for bolt-ons, most of us only managed to get 107-ish MPH tops, and I have been involved with trying to get quite a few bolt-in M6 cars into the 12s in addition to my own - very few make it so you are a lucky man!

Not since new - was an ex-vic police. Just did the bolt-on thing as soon as I got it & went to see Dick for the tune. BTW, when the stock 3.46's were in, best of 12.846. Now with the 3.9's, 12.766. Not as much of a difference as I would have thought. But, I was having valve spring problems ;) .

vxls1 is unopened: 12.2x et's (A4), so the times are there to be had.

[bpm]

Dear All,

As you a few of you are aware I'm puttering around in a VY SS M6, I've reworked the exhaust had the 3.9's put in done the mafless tune, and if they finaly get around to making them i'll install my over the radiator cold air intake.

This unfortunaltey has not fufilled my desire to go faster now I'm looking into cams as a brief stop over before I go turbo (the cam would come out when the turbo goes in). Im hoping to get into comfortable 12's preferably 12.7 and below.

The car is my daily driver, So what i need to know is What sizes are people running, how is the drivability in the city traffic but more importantly are any of you camed M6 3.9 owners willing to let me have a drive of your cars to let me get a better feel of what I'm looking for? If you can get out to windsor you can have a drive of mine- 226/231 @110 and 3.9s. at the shop from 7 till 6.

[markone2]

vxls1 is unopened: 12.2x et's (A4), so the times are there to be had.

I agree, vxls1 unopened at 12.2’s is well on his way to the holy grail :) of the bolt on class imho, however it seems to me the emphasis these days has quickly shifted from bolt-ons only to cammed cars…but least we forget what numbers the new breed of cam only cars are chasing…….
I can recall well over a year ago now Jamie ( REDHOT SS ) pedalling his bolt on VY SS Ute to 12.380 @ 110.20mph down Willowbank’s fine straight, the very same car smoking its way down the ¼ on a set of very worn Wanli’s for a 12..5 pass :eek: …Enter the bolt-on M6 and we have the Mad Kiwi running at 12.360 and 112.58..
Heading up the auto’s with there power robbing converters is RED SV8 12.120@ 112.58mph and my own car in there somewhere (past tense) at 12.231 and 112.42mph…now I’m pretty sure I am missing a couple folk here, but not of course the fine beef fillet specialist who has fought tooth and nail to push his unopened ute into the 11’s by sheer will power alone and whose present *record* stands at 12.00..something and I’m certain at least one pass at over 115mph…
Too the best of my knowledge all of the above are daily drivers and meet with the requirements of the bolt-on class of car..or at least did so in the past tense for those that have now travelled the cam only route.....
So yes, as has been quoted above....the numbers are most certainly there..imo :)

[Beej]

Mark - like I said - yes a select *few* bolt-on cars make it into the 12s. Most do not - that is the reality - you were one of the lucky ones. As far as M6 cars go even less make it than A4s - due to a little thing called a hi-stall converter ;). The other thing is how repeatable are many of these "internet legend" 12 sec bolt-on runs? Sure I've seen cars like VXLS1 pull 12s, but I can tell you it doesn't happen on every outing or every run. I think what most people are looking for here, and certainly the originator of this thread, is help on how to get their car set up so that it will do 12s easy, all day, and in street-trim, rather than having to do 100+ runs before they figure out how to get the set-up just so and the weather just right etc for the elusive 12s pass.

To be clear - yes I know a bunch of people can jump on here and say "my bolt-on M6 did a 12 or my A4 did 12.2 etc etc", but I can say, without a doubt, from my own experience, from talking to people like Sams Performance, Dick etc about this many many times, and from hanging out at WSID and trying to help a lot of people break into the 12s with bolt-ons, that it is *not* easy and the *majority* do not make it without further modifications.

Cheers,

Beej

[vxls1]

Mark - like I said - yes a select *few* bolt-on cars make it into the 12s. Most do not - that is the reality - you were one of the lucky ones. As far as M6 cars go even less make it than A4s - due to a little thing called a hi-stall converter ;). The other thing is how repeatable are many of these "internet legend" 12 sec bolt-on runs? Sure I've seen cars like VXLS1 pull 12s, but I can tell you it doesn't happen on every outing or every run. I think what most people are looking for here, and certainly the originator of this thread, is help on how to get their car set up so that it will do 12s easy, all day, and in street-trim, rather than having to do 100+ runs before they figure out how to get the set-up just so and the weather just right etc for the elusive 12s pass.

To be clear - yes I know a bunch of people can jump on here and say "my bolt-on M6 did a 12 or my A4 did 12.2 etc etc", but I can say, without a doubt, from my own experience, from talking to people like Sams Performance, Dick etc about this many many times, and from hanging out at WSID and trying to help a lot of people break into the 12s with bolt-ons, that it is *not* easy and the *majority* do not make it without further modifications.

Cheers,

Beej

Beej

You are right in what you say it is not easy especially in an M6 car. My cars results as i'm sure with some of the others mentioned in this thread are the result of a very good setup alot of testing and stuffing around and countless runs at the strip.

For your info my cars basic setup will run repeatable 12.2s @ 111/112 mph in less than favourable conditions as it was setup over spring and summer and has never run in this setup in winter. I am still testing some rear shock setups to improve my 60ft time as the car still has major traction issues and yes alot of times at WSID trying things i have gone backwards on more than one occassion.

Beej there are a few cars that are mentioned in this thread that achieving low 12s is the result of a lot of work, time and effort so i think your "internet legend" comment is a bit strange!

Anyway none of this helps the originator of the thread.

[Red-Drop]

I think what most people are looking for here, and certainly the originator of this thread, is help on how to get their car set up so that it will do 12s easy, all day, and in street-trim, rather than having to do 100+ runs before they figure out how to get the set-up just so and the weather just right etc for the elusive 12s pass.


Spot on the money there beej.

If i'm looking at these sort of cams am I going to blow my clutch in the first 5000 ks, or should i invest the money in one of sams cluches now.

[Beej]

Beej

You are right in what you say it is not easy especially in an M6 car. My cars results as i'm sure with some of the others mentioned in this thread are the result of a very good setup alot of testing and stuffing around and countless runs at the strip.

For your info my cars basic setup will run repeatable 12.2s @ 111/112 mph in less than favourable conditions as it was setup over spring and summer and has never run in this setup in winter. I am still testing some rear shock setups to improve my 60ft time as the car still has major traction issues and yes alot of times at WSID trying things i have gone backwards on more than one occassion.

Beej there are a few cars that are mentioned in this thread that achieving low 12s is the result of a lot of work, time and effort so i think your "internet legend" comment is a bit strange!

Anyway none of this helps the originator of the thread.


VXLS1 - yes I agree with everything you say. My "internet legend" comment was more about all the cars that people read about on here and take as gospel when they have never actually seen the car in real life or actually have any real knowledge of just how much effort/work/time/money goes into those cars to achieve what can appear easy when you read a short post about it on the internet- make sense what I am getting at? Like an "urband legend" but an "internet legend" instead?? Anyway...... I've seen your car run 12s so I guess that makes you a "legend" rather than an "internet legend" :D

Cheers,

Beej

[vxls1]

VXLS1 - yes I agree with everything you say. My "internet legend" comment was more about all the cars that people read about on here and take as gospel when they have never actually seen the car in real life or actually have any real knowledge of just how much effort/work/time/money goes into those cars to achieve what can appear easy when you read a short post about it on the internet- make sense what I am getting at? Like an "urband legend" but an "internet legend" instead?? Anyway...... I've seen your car run 12s so I guess that makes you a "legend" rather than an "internet legend" :D

Cheers,

Beej

Beej

I think we are on the same wave length.

As for legend I will leave that title for some of the other esteemed members of this forum!

[Jozo]

The car is my daily driver, So what i need to know is What sizes are people running, how is the drivability in the city traffic but more importantly are any of you camed M6 3.9 owners willing to let me have a drive of your cars to let me get a better feel of what I'm looking for?

running a 224/228 @ 114. m6 vy1 with 3.9s. If your near the hills area PM me if you want to go for a cruise.

Drivability feels stock with a slight lope and as i drive in the city every day, its very good as a daily driver in traffic. (it all comes down to the tune)

[CSV Strada SiR]

Agreed that tune is important but depends if you want 250rwkw or 300rwkw.
I have a 216 daily and its pretty tame, 224 is for weekends, cars have 45rwkw differance and in stop start traffic you can get tired of the lope. Mate drove a 300+ Cam car and couldnt use 4th under 90km/h, idle was okay but with that much duration and lift etc he only got 250km to a tank.

Any cammed car that has 250rwkw should be perfect for daily use and get 400km per tank. If thats your main concern look at the smaller size cams under 220.

[Febs]

Any cammed car that has 250rwkw should be perfect for daily use and get 400km per tank.

:lol:
He gets worse than 400km/tank now (with lots of highway driving) and that's after a mafless tune and having his O2 sensors checked. :D

Cheers,
- Febs.

[Jozo]

Any cammed car that has 250rwkw should be perfect for daily use and get 400km per tank. If thats your main concern look at the smaller size cams under 220.

i average around 20L/100. This gives me around 300km per tank in the 60L ute which means i fill up 2/3 times a week. (the ford utes hold 80L)

[Fabio's CV8]

I have M6 / 3.9 / Mafless and a 216/222 avg Fuel 20L/100

I live in the east. PM if you wana drive :)

[RIDE:42]

I have M6 / 3.9 / Mafless and a 216/222 avg Fuel 20L/100

I live in the east. PM if you wana drive :)

just do the drive in a well lit area :lol:
a baby cam 224 will give you EAZY 12.7 on full street trim with proper road tyres :)