13 Aussie Muscle Cars Tested by Motor

[Goggles]

Without giving the game away too much, the following were tested:

SV6 vs XR6
SS vs CV8 vs SV8 vs XR6T
GTO Coupe vs Coupe4
Clubsport vs GT
Maloo R8 vs Pursuit

Most rwkw = GT
Least rwkw = SV6

slowest 0 to 100 = SV6
fastest 0 to 100 = Clubsport
slowest standing quarter = SV6
fastest standing quarter = Clubsport

slowest around EC = XR6
fastest around EC = SS :confused:

[Tron2004]

Wonder if the SV6 owners feel a tad short-changed. :eek:

[Inter-ceptor]

Wonder if the SV6 owners feel a tad short-changed. :eek:
I thought XR6 would be the slowest... Id hate to line up SV6 against a Falcon XT :rolleyes:

[CarlFST60L]

suprised about the SS being quicker than the clubbie round EC... :eek: :confused:

[BA$TAD]

is this mag in the shops yet or is this for the subscribers...

[Goggles]

is this mag in the shops yet or is this for the subscribers...

for subscribers...due in the shop on Wed

[BA$TAD]

thanks goggles :)

[lowriding]

Wonder if the SV6 owners feel a tad short-changed. :eek:

What about how the XR8 owners would feel ?
Where is it in that list ? Don't Motor don't rate it at all ?

[Aus8]

Hmmm yeah the SV6 result is disapointing getting beaten by a heavier and less powerfull car. (XR6NA)

Aus8

[vxcalaiszzz]

There are 13 Aussie muscle cars? NA 6cyl, a muscle car? Did the Camry Sportivo make it onto their shortlist :confused:

[ozzyjim]

What about how the XR8 owners would feel ?
Where is it in that list ? Don't Motor don't rate it at all ?

Apparently the xr8 scored a 13.9 0-400:)

Cheers
Jim

[paulvdb]

I thought XR6 would be the slowest... Id hate to line up SV6 against a Falcon XT :rolleyes:
I still can't help but feel that there are bad SV6s and good SV6s, and bad XR6's and good XR6s. The SV6 SHOULD have had higher RWKW even if the torque is less. I guess you basically buy either of these cars and go for an edit to fix the factory stuff-ups or you live with it. The Barra Turbo and LS1 have the same issues - you can buy a friday arvo car of either and you get the luck of the draw.

[Chris52]

I thought that the Clubby or the Gto with the LS2 would have pipped the GT for the most rwkw's.

Cheers

Chris.

[FPV GTHO]

The SV6 SHOULD have had higher RWKW even if the torque is less.

What about the LS2 Clubbies? Theyve got more power AND torque than the GT, yet the GT still came up with more rwkw.

[BlueVZSS]

suprised about the SS being quicker than the clubbie round EC... :eek: :confused:

I haven't seen the article so I don't know by how much but it is a lighter vehicle. Good to see it get a fair shake this time after they hosed it at PCOTY after cooking its brakes. At PCOTY they commented on how well it went on the track until the brakes gave out. I thought it a bit unfair at the time because an idiot can cook the brakes on a street car at a circuit pretty easily, regardless of the car.

[Redhot_57]

Ozzyjim, Ive never heard of a stock BA XR8 running a 13.9. Matter of fact, I dont think Ive seen one better about 14.3, and even that was a motor time.
BUT, I may stand corrected!

[M&Ms]

Ozzyjim, Ive never heard of a stock BA XR8 running a 13.9. Matter of fact, I dont think Ive seen one better about 14.3, and even that was a motor time.
BUT, I may stand corrected!

Well prepare to be dazzled to see that in the motor test the XR8 ran 13.99 secs and the SS managed a 14.2.

U win some, then u lose some..that's life :cool:

[FPV GTHO]

Ozzyjim, Ive never heard of a stock BA XR8 running a 13.9. Matter of fact, I dont think Ive seen one better about 14.3, and even that was a motor time.
BUT, I may stand corrected!

A stock XR8 fresh off the showroom, probably not. But one with plenty of K's on the odometer and its highly likely

[BA$TAD]

didn't Xa-coupe run a 13.6 with his Xr8...i think it was dead stock as well.

[ozzyjim]

Ozzyjim, Ive never heard of a stock BA XR8 running a 13.9. Matter of fact, I dont think Ive seen one better about 14.3, and even that was a motor time.
BUT, I may stand corrected!

Dont worry its been done, ive never seen a stock ss break a 13 either but i know its been done too:) My BA A4 with catback and cai 10,000k's and 29psi has 14 flat twice with a virgin first timer...me:) And i though it was piss easy lol (not exactly stock though).

Cheers
Jim

[BlueVZSS]

Dont worry its been done, ive never seen a stock ss break a 13 either but i know its been done too:)

There are many Pontiac GTOs (04 Model with an LS1) that have run 13.1 to 13.3 bone stock. Conclusion, it comes down to the driver and track conditions. I personally highly doubt the ability of an XR8 to beat an SS with equal drivers and track conditions. The weight of the car is simply against it given similar HP.

[XA coupe]

didn't Xa-coupe run a 13.6 with his Xr8...i think it was dead stock as well.

I had a BPT Cold air kit ... so not exactly stock but that was it. No exhaust, intake (other than that ) or chips or such. I have since taken it off but not had a chance to run it again. Once I have saved up enough to pay for the next broken axle I will give it a go again :D

[XA coupe]

There are many Pontiac GTOs (04 Model with an LS1) that have run 13.1 to 13.3 bone stock. Conclusion, it comes down to the driver and track conditions. I personally highly doubt the ability of an XR8 to beat an SS with equal drivers and track conditions. The weight of the car is simply against it given similar HP.

If someone will lend me their stock SS I am willing to find out !! :D

[BlueVZSS]

If someone will lend me their stock SS I am willing to find out !! :D

I'd be willing to consider it but I don't think that I would get much back if I sent it over to the location recorded in your user profile :eek:

[GTS215i]

Can anyone tell me what the specific RWKW readings were of the SV6 and the other cars?

[SteveK]

I read the articles last night when I got home. Gotta love being a subscriber.

One question though, I can understand their motives, but how often do us city folk push our car to the limits in 40 degree heat? Is there a specific reason they don't just test these cars in normal weather or is that normal for some?

Cheers,
Steve

[Gto_255]

I can't beleive how the GT pulled 240rwkw. 15kw more than both LS2's which got 226. The biggest shock was the SS being the quickest around a racetrack. It has less power, shit brakes and softer suspension than the Clubby. How can it be faster?????

[Goggles]

I can't beleive how the GT pulled 240rwkw. 15kw more than both LS2's which got 226. The biggest shock was the SS being the quickest around a racetrack. It has less power, shit brakes and softer suspension than the Clubby. How can it be faster?????

it is explained in the article....down to better tyres, and probably the best weight to power combo.

[Oztrack Tuning]

Im rapidly losing faith in Modern Motors truth in their articles. I got the Hot Tuners edition yesterday with the 12.76 after edit LS2 and the figures are totally fiction. The time to 100kph does not match up at all with a 12.7 quarter at 176kph.

I think people just pic numbers out of the air sometimes.

It annoys me when magazines are more advertising products than science. Articles need to be free of corruption - people plugging their own businesses inside an article. Its the equivalent of scientology being woven into a science fiction book, or religious ideas woven subtly in kids books.

People buy magazines for facts.

Dyno rwkw are bullshit anyway - moving air makes a hell of a difference to some cars and totally changes their tune. Mine would be 20rwkw up on a "moving" dyno where some peoples dyno queens - would go down 20rwkw as soon as they get moving air.

[lowriding]

I can't beleive how the GT pulled 240rwkw. 15kw more than both LS2's which got 226. The biggest shock was the SS being the quickest around a racetrack. It has less power, shit brakes and softer suspension than the Clubby. How can it be faster?????


After Holden being accused of supplying "warmed" over test cars by some in the past maybe Ford is now turning it up. 240rwkw stock for a 290fwkw car - 15% driveline loss . And the XR8 is also suddenly much quicker than in any test ive seen before . Maybe just two freak cars ;)

[FPV GTHO]

What times did they get in the GT then

[flappist]

I can't beleive how the GT pulled 240rwkw. 15kw more than both LS2's which got 226.

The majority of GTs & GT-Ps are in the 235-245 region when they are run in.
My own unit has ranged from 243.7 down to 236 over 4 different dynos.

Remember max rwkw is the calculated kw based of the measured tractive force and rpm.

If you have a lot of torque up high you will have a high rwkw. This does not mean that the torque useful for racing. (D9 dozers produce demonstrate LOTS of power & torque)

FPVs are crippled electronicly in the lower gears to protect drive train.

[keenas]

GO THE SS !!!!!!!


WOOOHHHOOOOO !!!! :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty: :cool: :cool: :D :D

[Gto_255]

it is explained in the article....down to better tyres, and probably the best weight to power combo.

Looking at the dyno graphs off the SS and the Clubby, it looks like the power curve is exactly the same. The only difference is that the LS2 has a higher peak as the LS1 drops off at higher revs. That's preety strange when the LS2 supposedly has a huge advantage over the LS1 when it comes to low-mid range torque. :confused:

[Mike9]

Motor Mag always has a different opinion of the same car every month, they always make typing errors and sometimes they just don't make any sense at all. For $8 Bucks, it should be a lot more polished. Wheels is a lot more professional.

[Redhot_57]

Motor Mag always has a different opinion of the same car every month, they always make typing errors and sometimes they just don't make any sense at all. For $8 Bucks, it should be a lot more polished. Wheels is a lot more professional.

Your name wouldnt be Mike McCarthy by any chance?? Tech editor for WHEELS?? Forgive me if Im wrong, must be another Mike..

Say what you will about Motor, and yes, their opinions change like the weather, but at least their drivers can pull decent times out of the cars.

[Mike9]

Ha ha........I wish, even though I bag Motor, I still love the Mag, I just wish they could be better. Their article " Grunt or Boost" was a shocker, not because of the outcome but because it was a bare minimum summary on different criteria. The main problem is some months they will reward the car with the best performance then the next month they will put it second for not being comfy enough. They want total performance then sometimes its all about grunt and not total performance

[rs2000]

What times did they get in the GT then


13.8 by memory

[rs2000]

[QUOTE=Mynaro]I read the articles last night when I got home. Gotta love being a subscriber.

One question though, I can understand their motives, but how often do us city folk push our car to the limits in 40 degree heat? Is there a specific reason they don't just test these cars in normal weather or is that normal for some?



last night u say..i'm a subcriber and read the mag last friday the 9th

Cheers Andrew

[dasko]

:hmmm: :nutkick: I dont bother with either of those second rate mag's any :cussing: :cussing: more :bash: :booty:

:bow: :deal: I just buy the old faithful bible STREET COMMODORES ::deal: :bow:

[SteveK]

[QUOTE=Mynaro]last night u say..i'm a subcriber and read the mag last friday the 9th

Cheers Andrew

Your medal is in the mail, unless you got that last friday too? :p

Either way, it's nice having this stuff home delivered.

Steve.

[BLACK 346]

[QUOTE=Mynaro]I read the articles last night when I got home. Gotta love being a subscriber.

One question though, I can understand their motives, but how often do us city folk push our car to the limits in 40 degree heat? Is there a specific reason they don't just test these cars in normal weather or is that normal for some?



last night u say..i'm a subcriber and read the mag last friday the 9th

Cheers Andrew

Normal weather, I think I remember what that is.

[Nidz]

:hmmm: :nutkick: I dont bother with either of those second rate mag's any :cussing: :cussing: more :bash: :booty:

:bow: :deal: I just buy the old faithful bible STREET COMMODORES ::deal: :bow:


Street commodores is just a whole lot of pretty pictures of shiny cars and ads.

[CarlFST60L]

I really cant see an SS beating a R8, nah, somthing fishy their... Maybe they did the cars an hour apart and the track cooled down for the SS, maybe they drove the R8 first and learnt the track in it and did the SS last so they new the tricks to jumpen the curb etc,

what was the time diffrence? IMHO The R8 should lap around 0.5-1.0 quicker

[trmagna]

I really cant see an SS beating a R8, nah, somthing fishy their... Maybe they did the cars an hour apart and the track cooled down for the SS, maybe they drove the R8 first and learnt the track in it and did the SS last so they new the tricks to jumpen the curb etc,

what was the time diffrence? IMHO The R8 should lap around 0.5-1.0 quicker

Motor have said the SS was quicker becase of the tyres. The HSV tires have softer side walls which give less grip when cornering, and thats why the SS was quicker. HSV have acknowledge this and are apparently releasing a track pack clubbie with 18"" semi racing/street tyres.

[vuster]

Here are the results for those who are interested:
0-100km/h 400m
acclaim 9.7,16.71
XT 8.7,16.32
SV6 8.21,16.28
XR6 8.11,16.06
XR6T 6.25,14.81
Coup4 6.69,14.74
CV8 6.02,14.28
Pursuit 6.22,14.23
SS 6.14,14.21
SV8 6.08,14.12
R8 maloo 6.02,14.08
XR8 6.11,13.99
GT 5.86,13.88
GTO 5.72,13.77
clubby 5.65,13.61

winner of the day was the clubby.

[YLD57L]

I reckon they give inconsistent opinions (and times) from mag to mag to keep the interest up and not to (fully) piss off the major sponsors of the mag.

[Drizt]

I reckon they give inconsistent opinions (and times) from mag to mag to keep the interest up and not to (fully) piss off the major sponsors of the mag.

this is something i have theorised for a long time...... they will deny it of course... as if they could admit they are full of shit

[M&Ms]

Here are the results for those who are interested:
0-100km/h 400m
acclaim 9.7,16.71
XT 8.7,16.32
SV6 8.21,16.28
XR6 8.11,16.06
XR6T 6.25,14.81
Coup4 6.69,14.74
CV8 6.02,14.28
Pursuit 6.22,14.23
SS 6.14,14.21
SV8 6.08,14.12
R8 maloo 6.02,14.08
XR8 6.11,13.99
GT 5.86,13.88
GTO 5.72,13.77
clubby 5.65,13.61

winner of the day was the clubby.

A lot of those times look familiar... they match previous test times. e.g. 8.11 0-100 for the Xr6 and 6.11 0-100 for the XR8 as well as 14.23 0-400m for the pursuit. I've noticed it before as well, that motor re-use previous times. Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of roadtesting cars in the first place?

[VXSSV8]

Here are the results for those who are interested:
0-100km/h 400m
acclaim 9.7,16.71
XT 8.7,16.32
SV6 8.21,16.28
XR6 8.11,16.06
XR6T 6.25,14.81
Coup4 6.69,14.74
CV8 6.02,14.28
Pursuit 6.22,14.23
SS 6.14,14.21
SV8 6.08,14.12
R8 maloo 6.02,14.08
XR8 6.11,13.99
GT 5.86,13.88
GTO 5.72,13.77
clubby 5.65,13.61

winner of the day was the clubby.

You really have to wonder why the Holden V6's aren't faster given their 100kg+ weight advantage. :confused: I've driven a few BA 6's and for a taxi (just joking) they go quite hard considering their supposedly hefty figure. I think someone is BS'ing us with their power outputs and given those times you would have to think the Alloytech's are a little inflated. Acclaim @ 9.7 with 175kw...I'm sure my old cast iron boat anchor in my VY is quicker than that.

:)

[east_bay_punk]

there were rumours being thrown around that ford underated the power in the 6 pots so that P-Platers in victoria could drive them

[Danv8]

Don't forget the 2.87 diff ratio on the SV6 can dent the performance. Also who cares about the V6 when we have the might V8. :D

[Ghia351]

there were rumours being thrown around that ford underated the power in the 6 pots so that P-Platers in victoria could drive them
LOL, this explains the Falcon's weight gain, to keep the power:weight ratio below P-plater's limits.

[Nobby]

there were rumours being thrown around that ford underated the power in the 6 pots so that P-Platers in victoria could drive them

As interesting a theory as that is, I really doubt they are going to do ANYTHING like that for a demographic that 99% of the time cannot afford to buy their cars. (nor have them bought for them)

Fact of the matter is that a dull stock boring BA isnt slow (for what it needs to do), and another 100kgs really doesnt make much difference.

People are barking up the wrong tree, weight matters little to the quickness of the car, it mostly effects fuel consumption and driveability. A decent overall package (drive train, etc) will be a fast little number indeed, which is why the BA 'hot' models dont actually get much faster through the range. When the falcon gets a decent one look out (and same can be said for commodore).

[VYSHSV8]

Go the SV8 seems to be havr the goods cosidering 75kgs lighter than an SS but hey
it comes down to what you can afford and by the looks of it the good old SV8 pulls of the best bang for ya buck in this comparo again :D

[Mickey T]

this is something i have theorised for a long time...... they will deny it of course... as if they could admit they are full of shit


...sigh. and yet you guys feel quite happy to let the world know how full of it you seem to be, making up conspiracies to foster your own prejudices about what brand is better.

the simple fact is that the cars are that close these days that normal production tolerances can make a huge difference in the way they come across in testing.

ask anybody here on the forums if they've driven a few LS1s, and they'll back me up on the seemingly huge production tolerances that seem acceptable to st catharines' quality control people.

the cars can get to us with anything from 500km to 15,000km on the clock, and that can leave them operating in a manner not according to the engineer's exact intent.

also, there are some roads and tracks that favour the holdens, some that favour the fords (well, most tracks favour the holdens while the brakes last...)

we can only test what's provided and if you think we sit around here brewing up preconceptions about which brand is going to win the next comparison, you're dreaming. :lol:

just a little hint: if you don't know something about what we do, and you're genuinely interested in finding out, you could a) read the story thoroughly or, b) ask us in a letter or email (motor@acp.com.au). All you end up doing by posting this sort of thing is proving to the whole forum how little you actually understand

[Merlin]

weight matters little to the quickness of the car, it mostly effects fuel consumption and driveability.

:shock:

I beg to differ...

[exwrx]

...sigh. and yet you guys feel quite happy to let the world know how full of it you seem to be, making up conspiracies to foster your own prejudices about what brand is better.

the simple fact is that the cars are that close these days that normal production tolerances can make a huge difference in the way they come across in testing.

ask anybody here on the forums if they've driven a few LS1s, and they'll back me up on the seemingly huge production tolerances that seem acceptable to st catharines' quality control people.

the cars can get to us with anything from 500km to 15,000km on the clock, and that can leave them operating in a manner not according to the engineer's exact intent.

also, there are some roads and tracks that favour the holdens, some that favour the fords (well, most tracks favour the holdens while the brakes last...)

we can only test what's provided and if you think we sit around here brewing up preconceptions about which brand is going to win the next comparison, you're dreaming. :lol:

just a little hint: if you don't know something about what we do, and you're genuinely interested in finding out, you could a) read the story thoroughly or, b) ask us in a letter or email (motor@acp.com.au). All you end up doing by posting this sort of thing is proving to the whole forum how little you actually understand

I agree with this - production tolerances seem to be a significant factor. Congratulations on actually putting your test cars on a chassis dyno and pointing out the variations compared to previous press cars. ;)

[GTS215i]

Yeah i agree, having dyno readings as an estimate is a lot more interesting than quoting the standard factory output figures, especially when Ford have a slightly different measurement of there power output help to make a good overall estimate of what they have.

In regards to weight i would much preferr having only myself in the car down the strip and being as light as possible, im sure the time slip would agree too. :D

I can agree with Mickey T and others, owning a previous Press/Media car and reading nearly every review of my car and driving it myself, most reviews are generally accurate both good and bad. Times may differ but a lot of factors can influence there 'on the day' testing enviroment so does the state of the car when it arrives in the hands of the test drivers and reporters.

[Ghia351]

...sigh. and yet you guys feel quite happy to let the world know how full of it you seem to be, making up conspiracies to foster your own prejudices about what brand is better.

the simple fact is that the cars are that close these days that normal production tolerances can make a huge difference in the way they come across in testing.

ask anybody here on the forums if they've driven a few LS1s, and they'll back me up on the seemingly huge production tolerances that seem acceptable to st catharines' quality control people.

the cars can get to us with anything from 500km to 15,000km on the clock, and that can leave them operating in a manner not according to the engineer's exact intent.

also, there are some roads and tracks that favour the holdens, some that favour the fords (well, most tracks favour the holdens while the brakes last...)

we can only test what's provided and if you think we sit around here brewing up preconceptions about which brand is going to win the next comparison, you're dreaming. :lol:

just a little hint: if you don't know something about what we do, and you're genuinely interested in finding out, you could a) read the story thoroughly or, b) ask us in a letter or email (motor@acp.com.au). All you end up doing by posting this sort of thing is proving to the whole forum how little you actually understand

Pay Hans Leahman to stake out Lang Lang for a VE and I'll buy a subscription, I know it won't cover your costs but many more will follow.

[Mickey T]

Pay Hans Leahman to stake out Lang Lang for a VE and I'll buy a subscription, I know it won't cover your costs but many more will follow.


well, keep a digital camera handy if you're anywhere near there, and you may not have to pay for a subscription for a few years anyway...

[Ghia351]

well, keep a digital camera handy if you're anywhere near there, and you may not have to pay for a subscription for a few years anyway... lol, help finance replacing my "work" VW T4 van to the new V6 T5 (just to gain greater acceleration ability) and I'll gladly oblige.
Cheers.

[ls763]

well, keep a digital camera handy if you're anywhere near there, and you may not have to pay for a subscription for a few years anyway...

what would a VE photo be worth............ :cool:

[rednut99]

As interesting a theory as that is, I really doubt they are going to do ANYTHING like that for a demographic that 99% of the time cannot afford to buy their cars. (nor have them bought for them)

Fact of the matter is that a dull stock boring BA isnt slow (for what it needs to do), and another 100kgs really doesnt make much difference.

People are barking up the wrong tree, weight matters little to the quickness of the car, it mostly effects fuel consumption and driveability. A decent overall package (drive train, etc) will be a fast little number indeed, which is why the BA 'hot' models dont actually get much faster through the range. When the falcon gets a decent one look out (and same can be said for commodore).

You twirp = GT 400m 13.8, XT 400m 16.3 - Not much faster? Only about 20 car lengths... and 110m :lol:

[VooDoo]

Hey Mickey T, How about a lux-0-barge roundup. Caprice, LTD, few BMW's and Merc's etc. Ill bring mine down as a ring in :)

[VZKOOP]

There are a few problems I had with the article.......
When I picked up the mag and saw the "Story" on the cover "Outback Challenge" I was more interested in how well the cars would do in the real world. I think I have read enough comparo's over the last couple of years that show 0-400m x 10/10ths of the drag coefficient of the double overhead underhang which car gets to the end of the street first. But I couldn't actually find the part of the article that went into the detail of the "Outback Challenge". Maybe someone else found it and could point me to it?
The dyno results are bizaare to say the least. Has anyone on this forum ever seen a stock LS1 pull 218RWKW? Stock, my CV8 managed to wrangle up 197RWKW, which is at the top of the ones I have heard of. The one in Motor managed to find another 20RWKW. Mine, with the exhaust, has substantially less than this and yet still manages to pull 14.05 at WSID. Same car, less power, faster time? Sheesh if I end up with 218RWKW and lose .23 of a sec I'm gonna spit it big time.
I can't quite work out how the Clubsport and the GTO with an additional 37FWKW only managed less than an extra 10RWKW over the CV8 and yet the CV8 managed to hold it's 10FWKW advantage over the SS and SV8 at the rear wheels. (Must have been a LS1, GT-P friendly dyno)

[Ghia351]

what would a VE photo be worth............ :cool:


well, keep a digital camera handy if you're anywhere near there, and you may not have to pay for a subscription for a few years anyway...

2 or more years of Motor subscriptions by the look of it...

[FPV GTHO]

There are a few problems I had with the article.......
When I picked up the mag and saw the "Story" on the cover "Outback Challenge" I was more interested in how well the cars would do in the real world. I think I have read enough comparo's over the last couple of years that show 0-400m x 10/10ths of the drag coefficient of the double overhead underhang which car gets to the end of the street first. But I couldn't actually find the part of the article that went into the detail of the "Outback Challenge". Maybe someone else found it and could point me to it?
The dyno results are bizaare to say the least. Has anyone on this forum ever seen a stock LS1 pull 218RWKW? Stock, my CV8 managed to wrangle up 197RWKW, which is at the top of the ones I have heard of. The one in Motor managed to find another 20RWKW. Mine, with the exhaust, has substantially less than this and yet still manages to pull 14.05 at WSID. Same car, less power, faster time? Sheesh if I end up with 218RWKW and lose .23 of a sec I'm gonna spit it big time.
I can't quite work out how the Clubsport and the GTO with an additional 37FWKW only managed less than an extra 10RWKW over the CV8 and yet the CV8 managed to hold it's 10FWKW advantage over the SS and SV8 at the rear wheels. (Must have been a LS1, GT-P friendly dyno)


I suppose the answer's in how the dyno was calibrated.

[Mickey T]

2 or more years of Motor subscriptions by the look of it...
it would depend completely on the shot. how sharp, how high the resolution, how close you've zoomed in. how many angles. how much camo on it...

how long's a piece of string?

[Venom XR]

also, there are some roads and tracks that favour the holdens, some that favour the fords (well, most tracks favour the holdens while the brakes last...)

There's an idea for a future article. When you do such comparos as the aussie muscle showdown, BYFB, etc, only the highest lap time is recorded. You do make the odd remark about a car performance That's fine, but seeing as races aren't won by scoring pole position after qualifiyng, then packing up and going home perhaps you could run each car at a set number of laps after a warm up (5, 10?) showing the times as they go around, highlighting the fastest lap as you currently do. Given the penchant everyone has for stats these days, it would be interesting to compare.

Of course, that would mean in a comparo like an XR8 vs SS, M3 vs AMG, STi vs Evo, etc you would have to ensure either both had equivalent 'upgrades' such as brake packages, should they exist on both cars.

Wouldn't be any fun doing it either, would it? ;)

[Goggles]

There's an idea for a future article. When you do such comparos as the aussie muscle showdown, BYFB, etc, only the highest lap time is recorded. You do make the odd remark about a car performance That's fine, but seeing as races aren't won by scoring pole position after qualifiyng, then packing up and going home perhaps you could run each car at a set number of laps after a warm up (5, 10?) showing the times as they go around, highlighting the fastest lap as you currently do. Given the penchant everyone has for stats these days, it would be interesting to compare.

Of course, that would mean in a comparo like an XR8 vs SS, M3 vs AMG, STi vs Evo, etc you would have to ensure either both had equivalent 'upgrades' such as brake packages, should they exist on both cars.

Wouldn't be any fun doing it either, would it? ;)

sounds like a lot of fun, as long as I am the lucky bastard :)

[Mickey T]

the only flaw, as you've pointed out, is brakes.

even with premium pads, pushing to do a series of race laps at race pace would destroy any road pad on a commodore or falcon.

you can circulate two seconds off the pace and maintain pad life and pedal height, but drive any harder and they struggle.

they all struggle, it seems, except porsches and lotuses

[Veeate]

the only flaw, as you've pointed out, is brakes.

even with premium pads, pushing to do a series of race laps at race pace would destroy any road pad on a commodore or falcon.

you can circulate two seconds off the pace and maintain pad life and pedal height, but drive any harder and they struggle.

they all struggle, it seems, except porsches and lotuses

Does this apply to even the biggest brake packages available on say the HSV cars. Obviously thinking here the AP 6 piston etc etc brakes.

I would hope these sorts of brakes could withstand say half a dozen laps of Eastern Creek.

[Oztrack Tuning]

Always has been fishy the stated kw by HSV for their cars in Ls1s.

GTS C4Bs were rated at 300kw but it seems rarely dynod at 240rwkw for manuals like they should or 225rwkw in autos. It sounds like a common figure was high 220s in manuals and low210s in autos. This suggest a real figure at the flywheel of 285kw.

Now the 297kw engine are doing 228rwkw in the manual which represents (at 80%) 285kw and the auto (which in this particular car is clearly from previous tests a good one) 227rwkw which at 75% efficiency is 303kw.

Pretty good stuff that many mildly modded Ls1's on this forum show figures between 230 and 265rwkw which is 300-346kw.

More "to flywheel maths conversions(80% or 75%)" for the cars in this magazine shows

190kw SV6 with 154kw in M gives 192.5kw
182kw XR6 with 147rwkw in M gives 184kw
260kw Cv8 with 218rwkw in M6 gives 273kw
260kw Xr8 with 211rwkw in M gives 264kw
250kw SS/SV8 both with 208rwkw in M6 gives 260kw
240kw XR6T with 193rwkw in M gives 241kw
297kw GTO with 227rwkw in A4 gives 303kw
290kw GT with 242rwkw in M gives 303kw
297kw Clubsport with 228rwkw in M gives 285kw

It seems Holden has the SS,CV8 pumping out alot more than the stated kw. The Clubsport in this instance had less than the stated amount.

[Mickey T]

it's pad, more than hardware. sometimes you'll boil the fluid as well, but usually pad

[Venom XR]

the only flaw, as you've pointed out, is brakes.

even with premium pads, pushing to do a series of race laps at race pace would destroy any road pad on a commodore or falcon.

you can circulate two seconds off the pace and maintain pad life and pedal height, but drive any harder and they struggle.

they all struggle, it seems, except porsches and lotuses

So what point is there publishing fastest lap times in comparos like BFYB, etc if they're only capable of it for 1, maybe 2 red hot laps? At least with 1/4 mile, 0-100 times you can do those over and over again where the ultimate aim is always a single fastest time. Granted, so are super sprints, but wouldn't the majority of readers be more familiar with V8 or production car racing where lap times are a cumulative affair?

At least then with an average, or say a 5 lap total, it exposes cars for being weaker than others. If you've got to wash a few seconds off to get a car to make 5 laps, so be it. Unless all cars require roughly the same reduction in lap times to do so, then maybe it's not worth it. But surely some cars are more capable than others in that department?

[Mickey T]

five laps, 10 laps, 50 laps. where do you want to stop?

the point of clocking one fastest lap is the same reason we do everything the way we do it.

We don't give you the range of acceleration times, either. But if the thing drops off its outputs as it gets hot, we tell you about it. similarly, we tell you if the brakes die.

we are just trying to give you a feel for the maximum limits of what a car is capable of when it's operating as it's designed to do.

Few people drive at those limits, so they're not designed as production racers.

what we're trying to get across to you is the quality of outer edges of the design envelope is capable of.

[Ghia351]

it would depend completely on the shot. how sharp, how high the resolution, how close you've zoomed in. how many angles. how much camo on it...

how long's a piece of string?
precisely double half it's length....:stick:

[CarlFST60L]

Mickey T,

Would it be possible to change the pads on the next test, even if just for the circuit?

[Mickey T]

possible, yes. likely, no.

it's one of those things. where to you stop?

we just need pads because we're on a track.

then we need rubber

or different brake fluid

and a power steering cooler

and a transmission oil cooler

better to leave them how they come.

[CarlFST60L]

possible, yes. likely, no.

it's one of those things. where to you stop?

we just need pads because we're on a track.

then we need rubber

or different brake fluid

and a power steering cooler

and a transmission oil cooler

better to leave them how they come.


Understandable, very, but, if you can only get 2 laps on stock pads, its obvious thats a problem, fluid etc etc leave it... but i see your point, personally, first thing i did was fluid and bendix ultimate pads, and even the slicks i use dont cause fade ;) just goes to show that pads and fluid take a 2 lap car to 5 sprint laps on slicks with managable fade, 5 times in a day ;)

I think i speak for allot of people around these camps, i think its time for a edit, exhaust CIA comparsion from u boys at motor on an LS2 and and Boss, that, i would pay 2 see :)

:cheers:

[Venom XR]

five laps, 10 laps, 50 laps. where do you want to stop?

the point of clocking one fastest lap is the same reason we do everything the way we do it.

We don't give you the range of acceleration times, either. But if the thing drops off its outputs as it gets hot, we tell you about it. similarly, we tell you if the brakes die.

we are just trying to give you a feel for the maximum limits of what a car is capable of when it's operating as it's designed to do.

Few people drive at those limits, so they're not designed as production racers.

what we're trying to get across to you is the quality of outer edges of the design envelope is capable of.

Yeah, hard to argue with that. I just thought it might put an extra 'spin' on such comparos.

[Swordie]

It might have been interesting to have Magna up against the Holden and Ford NA 6's. A 4WD VRX would have been interesting doing laps against the XR6 and SV6. Mitsubishi could certainly do with some publicity as well.

I find the Holden vs. Ford thing gets a bit one dimensional after a while. It's been going on for years in magazines and motor racing.

[TJS-81]

Yeah perhaps a Magna could find a spot in one of these comparos, but obviously the majority of people still the love fight between the 'big two'. I certainly do...its all very interesting reading. Plus, its great for the consumers like me who love the full size Aussie car, as it only increases the competitive nature between the two...which is always better for us.