Gen III and oil consumption

[mechatron]

Hello Guys,

Just wondering if Holden dealers have told you the same thing? My engine chewed about 1.5L between the 10,000 and 15,000km mark and about 0.5L between 15,000 and 20,000km. I told Holden this and they said it is acceptable for the engines to use up to 2.5L between services. I think this is BS. How can an engine burn synthetic oil? I thought these useless mongrels (Holden) would have got this motor right by now since my ride is a VY SS II. How long has the engine been in commodores, nearly 7 years? How much longer do they want? Has anyone else had Holden tell them this? If an engine uses oil, there is a problem and it should be rebuilt? Am I right? Can some one explain to Holden that the Gen III is not a rotary engine.

[myles]

If you do a search you'll find a million pages detailing oil consumption.

As there are many pages on it, it seems to be considered at least a common problem with these engines. Some have no oil consumption issues, some it's been excessive and required rebuilds, for others the rebuild has made no difference and oil consumption still takes place. From a poll conducted on this board, about 70 per cent had no problem with the Gen IIIs while the remaining needed it to be rectified.

Depends on how satisfied you are. A problem for one might not be considered a problem for someone else.

You'll find the same applies to the dealers. One might not be helpful while another will be.

[mechatron]

Thanks Myles,

I'll do the search. But acceptable to use 2.5L? Thats a LOT of oil in any engine

[myles]

Here's the poll thread here (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=36764&highlight=oil+consumption)

Couple of links, not sure if they're the most informative, but a few i've found:
Link 1 (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2535&highlight=oil+consumption)
Link 2 (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=30991&highlight=oil+consumption)
Link 3 (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=27596&highlight=oil+consumption)

Also:
http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/page5.htm

[CSV Strada SiR]

In my book its unacceptable but thats the line in the sand holden draw for rebuilds. IMHO if you use a thinner oil 10w-30 for improved fuel consumption and emissions you have to expect more oil consumption. Old days any V8 got a 20w-50 now they all need this 0w-30 to pass standard tests- hmmmmmmmm oil company conspirisory?

[Beej]

I have also heard that oil consumption may appear worse with synthetic oils due to the fact that less fuel and other crap get's diluted into the mix over time with the synthetics.

PS: My engine (VTII) has never been rebuilt - it sometimes uses 0.5-1 litre between changes (5000kms), and sometimes it doesn't - go figure. I would also add that my engine sees some pretty extreme duty-cycles though as well :D For a light alloy engine, running synthetic 10W-30 oil, personally, this level of oil consumption does not concern me - most alloy engines use a little oil (Ford, BMW etc).

Cheers,

Beej

[mechatron]

Thanks everyone for submitting your thoughts and expertise. Greatly appreciated

[Azza]

One service person at a holden dealer told me that in the U.S, it was acceptable for up to 5 litres of oil to be used between service intervals, but "Holden" felt that was unexceptable and 2.5 litres was.

[paul05]

how does synthetic oil burn? anything entering the combustion chamber in small amounts with air and fuel mix will burn.

[Thunder]

As others have said, Holden use 2.5L/10,000km as the benchmark for a rebuild.

My VX used 2L on the first 8,000km and I put that down to just wearing in.

The car has done 50,000km and was using 4L - 5L/10,000km so I just got a free re-build before the warranty ran out. Long skirt pistons, new rings & bearings, 50,000km service, plus replaced the bulbs in the dashboard (not warranty) and the whole bill was around $78. Thanks Holden!!!

Apart from using oil, there was nothing wrong with the motor.

[dark]

I am sure there was a survey but could not find it but the VY11 appeared as none thus far for re-builds. Is there some-one that has had a VY11 re-build?

[mechatron]

Sorry, I meant burn excessive oil. Everyone else knew what I meant



how does synthetic oil burn? anything entering the combustion chamber in small amounts with air and fuel mix will burn.

[quicksilverss]

If you are on the borderline and holden finds this acceptable, which I agree is bs, just drain some before you go in next time, like many i know have done, better still just get rid of it

[SV8VY]

.Just tell the dealer you use 3-4 or drain a little before services if you a desperate for a rebuild.....on the other hand what happens if they give you one worse?
I have a personal theory which is probably wrong but I tend to think engines that use excessive oil haven't been broken in properly.
I might be very lucky that in all the years driving and riding bikes that not one of my cars (with the exception of a used Landrover Discovery)or bikes have had excessive oil issues.
I find that if I broke the engine in right and serviced regularly (and I don't mean by a dealer) I wouldn't use a drop of oil.
As I said these are only my thought and experiences.
I also think an engine needs a good thrashing every now and again (when warm)and conditions are right eg track to keep it going well.
Remember the old days when the luxury cars were serviced like the Jag they were given a thrashing and the owners couldnt believe how smooth they were when they handed their cars back.
Engines weren't made to do 40 km all over town with stop and go traffic...10 min here 15 min there ,hours doing 20-30 km in high temperature,its all bad.

[mechatron]

Hello SV8VY,

What is the way that you run-in your engines. I been told by different people all different things. "Flog it from the start to bed in the seals and it will go hard" and " Don't rev it above 3-3500RPM in the first 1500KMs" and many other similar lines to these two totally different lines. I actually probably babied mine too much because this is the first new car I have ever bought and I want it to last. It did however do a few mid range revs during the first 1500kms.



.Just tell the dealer you use 3-4 or drain a little before services if you a desperate for a rebuild.....on the other hand what happens if they give you one worse?
I have a personal theory which is probably wrong but I tend to think engines that use excessive oil haven't been broken in properly.
I might be very lucky that in all the years driving and riding bikes that not one of my cars (with the exception of a used Landrover Discovery)or bikes have had excessive oil issues.
I find that if I broke the engine in right and serviced regularly (and I don't mean by a dealer) I wouldn't use a drop of oil.
As I said these are only my thought and experiences.
I also think an engine needs a good thrashing every now and again (when warm)and conditions are right eg track to keep it going well.
Remember the old days when the luxury cars were serviced like the Jag they were given a thrashing and the owners couldnt believe how smooth they were when they handed their cars back.
Engines weren't made to do 40 km all over town with stop and go traffic...10 min here 15 min there ,hours doing 20-30 km in high temperature,its all bad.

[mechatron]

I tell you I'm getting close to doing this.


If you are on the borderline and holden finds this acceptable, which I agree is bs, just drain some before you go in next time, like many i know have done, better still just get rid of it

[mechatron]

How the heck can that be acceptable - 5L/10000kms. How does GM in the US keep the sales up with this type of attitude. The engine would be basically dry at each service (i.e having approx 1.2L left in the engine)


One service person at a holden dealer told me that in the U.S, it was acceptable for up to 5 litres of oil to be used between service intervals, but "Holden" felt that was unexceptable and 2.5 litres was.

[mechatron]

I wouldn't be surprised. These days everyone is out for profit (which is totally understandable) and as Holdens use Mobil Synthetic other car manufacturers probably also promote other types of more expensive, synthetic oils

- hmmmmmmmm oil company conspirisory?[/QUOTE]

[Danv8]

One service person at a holden dealer told me that in the U.S, it was acceptable for up to 5 litres of oil to be used between service intervals, but "Holden" felt that was unexceptable and 2.5 litres was.

I know someone that has a BMW M5 V8 and it uses up to 1L per 1000-2000 k's and BMW says its acceptible. To him it isn't and BMW is refusing to do anything because its in their limits apparently.

[clixanup]

I know someone that has a BMW M5 V8 and it uses up to 1L per 1000-2000 k's and BMW says its acceptible. To him it isn't and BMW is refusing to do anything because its in their limits apparently.

Imagine shelling out enough to buy a house only to cop that!!

[mechatron]

Thats DIGUSTING. Shame on you BMW. You are meant to make very well-made quality assured cars. Imagine forking out 4 times the cost of an optioned SS and having to put up with that.


I know someone that has a BMW M5 V8 and it uses up to 1L per 1000-2000 k's and BMW says its acceptible. To him it isn't and BMW is refusing to do anything because its in their limits apparently.

[Danv8]

Imagine shelling out enough to buy a house only to cop that!!


Indeed although the E39 BMW M5 V8 has a dry sump system but even with that oil usage shouldn't be that much imho.

[TwistMT]

I have just over 18,000 miles on my GTO since Sept. and have noticed negligible oil consumption. I recently did a TB bypass and found some residue inside the throttle body. I figure to remedy this with an oil catch can install in the next month or so. I don't view any of this as unnacceptable since I do travel about 90 miles per day, averaging approximately 80 mph. I switched to Mobil1 at my first oil change and have used it ever since.

[SV8VY]

Hello SV8VY,

What is the way that you run-in your engines. I been told by different people all different things. "Flog it from the start to bed in the seals and it will go hard" and " Don't rev it above 3-3500RPM in the first 1500KMs" and many other similar lines to these two totally different lines. I actually probably babied mine too much because this is the first new car I have ever bought and I want it to last. It did however do a few mid range revs during the first 1500kms.Mine all cop a hiding from the dealer only AFTER THE ENGINE TEMPS are at the running level.I do short squirt acceleration and medium range and high speed runs at random times and bursts.I don't baby the cars or bikes at all.After giving it a hard time I warm it down also then oil changes to motor,diff and gearbox at 500 km then motor oil at 1000 km and every 5000.Might be overkill but you should see the crap that comes out especially the diff oil that no one changes.
Be warned this is only my opinion and you will get no sympathy from any constable as an excuse or driving it hard.
Has worked for me for over 20 years of driving and Ill stick to this.
Oh and no synthetic oil for at least 10,000 km for the engine.

[Thunder]

Mine went straight from the Dealer (after the rebuild) to our Dyno for a thrashing before the wife got her hands on it!!! :D

[muayyadf1]

High temp + driving hard+low grade oil = oil consumption


If you drive your car so hard ,use 20w-50 oil grade


You MUST see a big difference :D