Standard Holden Brakes Insufficient

[HSVLS1]

Who here thinks that the standard brake package fitted to all v8 Commodore’s and Monaro’s doesn’t have enough stopping power.

[wrexed03]

Agreed. I have a VZ SS havent jumped on them but you can tell they arent up to scratch. Aftermarket will have to be the solution or HSV items who knows more dollars to be spent..

[brh26]

G'day,
I think you will get a unanimous vote of support on this here! Many opt for a pad change, EBC Green, Bendix Ultimate or Ferodo. Numerous others go for aftermarket upgraded packages eg PBR, AP etc.

Cheers

[Tron2004]

Who here thinks that the standard brake package fitted to all v8 Commodore’s and Monaro’s doesn’t have enough stopping power.
Yup, got my vote there!
The brakes just dont match the acceleration capability these cars have. :(

[VKPWR]

Agree, that’s why I decided on a VX R8 not a VY SS, Premium brakes. :)

[VQ304]

If you think the current model V8 brakes are bad, don't drive an older one. I can smell the brakes in my VQ burning after just one hard stop, and they last for maybe 3-4 hard stops before they start fading :p

[Knight Phlier]

Agree, that’s why I decided on a VX R8 not a VY SS, Premium brakes. :)

Agree!! - I also went for the R8 instead of a CV8 mainly cause of the brakes.

[VooDoo]

I think you will find its the pads more than the brakes themselves. A decent pad will transform the car. Of course decent rotors, larger calipers etc will help a lot as well but ive seen ppl spend big $$ on brakes and then put in crap pads and wonder why they dont feel that much better than the stock brakes.

[DaveHAT]

I think you will find its the pads more than the brakes themselves. A decent pad will transform the car. Of course decent rotors, larger calipers etc will help a lot as well but ive seen ppl spend big $$ on brakes and then put in crap pads and wonder why they dont feel that much better than the stock brakes.

Good call there VooDoo.
No real problem with the factory brakes at all. Remember not so long ago a V8 Holden had single piston front calipers. Had these on the VQ Stato, & was always fun to try and pull up in a hurry.
Factory pads are significantly smaller in surface area than many aftermarket brands. With slotted standard rotors and larger brake pads, I can't say I have any complaints at all. Stops juuuuust fine.

[BlueVZSS]

The brakes are crap. First thing that I am changing.

[Knight Phlier]

I think you will find its the pads more than the brakes themselves. A decent pad will transform the car. Of course decent rotors, larger calipers etc will help a lot as well but ive seen ppl spend big $$ on brakes and then put in crap pads and wonder why they dont feel that much better than the stock brakes.

Agree - The pad is a big factor here and improves the brake performance. The standard Premium pad for these brakes from HSV isn't that good, when I took to the track they weren't what I thought they would be - I changed to RBA pads and although they squeel alot they can stop on a 10c coin @ 100ks if they are put too the test, activating ABS and virtually popping your eyeballs out of their sockets. :lol:

I could never do that with aftermarket pads on a VT, but then that had standard rotors which would have a big effect here in stopping power.

[djl]

Too right. A pad change is definitely on the agenda.

[Black_Utester]

:idea:

(sarcastically) .... drive slower, then you'll need less brakes .....

:eek:

[Nawdy]

I warped the discs on my VX after a few hard stops from speed. They were replaced under warranty.

Agree that the standard brake package is crap, and is probably the biggest letdown on the whole car.

[xshore]

A couple of high speed stops warped mine too on the VT2. A few round abouts in a 100 km/hr zone was enough to do it to mine. I use the police spec brake pads, much larger, still a fair way off before I consider it decent stopping power.

[EvillBill]

Now I have finished my warranty period, better brakes are going on. The OEM one were fine until 6 months ago. Had to stand on the picks to prevent a P plater from dying (ran a stop sign) and since then the pedal feels awful.. All other mods are on hold til I sort them out.

[chook]

What pads do you guys recommend?

[djl]

I think you will find its the pads more than the brakes themselves. A decent pad will transform the car. .

Definitely agree. The police pack cars come with better pads and it makes a big difference. I had no complaints with the brakes in my ex-police VX. Different story with the new ride. :(

[nemesis5]

brakes are laughable, but damn who's done (well at least tried to) do a hard stop in a crewman? man thats just plain scarey :eek:

[JoshoMarc]

I just saw a set of those HUUGE Harrop rotors down the coast before... Me wants a set of them. My standard brakes are quite poor.

[EVLCV8]

Hey chook,
I would recommend Cebco's brake pads or Ferodo DS2500 Pads......Both I have found to be the best of the brake pad world.
But after spending hundreds of dollars on pads & rotor upgrades for the cv8, I've realised that it's the holden calipers that really lets the brake system down.

Adz

[Chris52]

brakes are laughable, but damn who's done (well at least tried to) do a hard stop in a crewman? man thats just plain scarey :eek:

I,m hearing Ya, try a loaded crewy with a tool trailer ......aaaarrrhhh.!!
Hence my brake query in the technical section.

Cheers

Chris.

[nemesis]

Would definately want to change the pads but has anyone seen increased rotor wear due to better quality pads?? Just curious...

[Byi82]

Does anyone know if Holden offer an upgradeable brake package similar as Ford? For just under $3000 you can equip your XR sedan with FPV Premium Brakes. HSV offer AP brakes for the R8 models for $3750, for that price I would be willing to pay the extra if they where an option on a SS Commodore.

Cheers

[Holden Nut]

Does anyone know if Holden offer an upgradeable brake package similar as Ford? For just under $3000 you can equip your XR sedan with FPV Premium Brakes. HSV offer AP brakes for the R8 models for $3750, for that price I would be willing to pay the extra if they where an option on a SS Commodore.

Cheers
Yes they do now, Holden by Design offer a brake upgrade. I think these are the brakes that are now standard on the Monaro.

[Pickles]

By182-Holden By Design is apparently a good package if you don't want to spend heaps-it uses the new C6 caliper,on the front,which is 30% bigger,and much stronger,than the C5 Caliper used in the PBR package.HSV performance brakes also use the C5 caliper I think.However Holden By Design have to fit their package,you cannot do it yourself.They also fit an HBD" build plate" I believe.I think this package has to be arranged through a Holden dealer-anyone had one fitted?,alternatively what do VZ Monaro owners think of their brakes,which are virtually identical to the HBD package,apart from braided hoses & slotted rotors?Cheers, Pickles.

[Red CV8 R]

Standard brakes are awful. With a decent set of pads they are better but still way to induce fade. I have been thinking about the new Harrop four spot package mentioned in their forum but still not sure if I need to go that far or spend that much for a car that wont see the track. Might just get the PBR kit like the VZ Monaro. Still those Harrops look so good :drool:

[Tron2004]

I warped the discs on my VX after a few hard stops from speed. They were replaced under warranty.
A slight shudder when hitting the anchors??
I get that now. Probably happened after a couple of decent stops.
Makes me wonder tho, how good the rotors are if they're open to warping after a couple of hard stops.
Anyway, hasn't really worried me too much but if it's a warranty job then I might as well get it looked at.

[nemesis]

Can anyone give me a price or a good contact for pads? I need one that can ship internationally as their not available here

Thanks

[Nidz]

I got a vx2 berlina v8 wagon and i gotta say they aren't the worst brakes.. var better than the std ones i had on my VR or earlier.. Ok yeah bigger brakes or aftermarket pads would be a step up but they still stop you pretty well.

[MNR-0]

I slotted my rotors when new, replaced the pads with race brakes and upgraded to Dot 4 racing fluid. Made a world of difference. My front rotors are shot though, worn in by 4mm and beginning to show surface striations. Considering the stock rotors are like $30 each to replace, its cost effective enough to replace them and go for harder brake pads.

I really want a set of Harrop 4 pots though. If you're going to do it do it right I say. At $3500 I think they are the best value for money going around. The PBRs are 2 pot front and stock rear.

[HRT 8]

I really want a set of Harrop 4 pots though. If you're going to do it do it right I say. At $3500 I think they are the best value for money going around. The PBRs are 2 pot front and stock rear.

Trust me on this one. You'll never be left wanting for more braking force with these.

[COOKIE!]

Heres some food for thought a VT/VX/VY/VZ V6 exec has the same brakes as a WH/WK/WL V8 statesman that has a HELL of alot more power and is more than 300 kilo's heavier?????

How stupid is that......

[Gareth@Willall]

I slotted my rotors when new, replaced the pads with race brakes and upgraded to Dot 4 racing fluid. Made a world of difference. My front rotors are shot though, worn in by 4mm and beginning to show surface striations. Considering the stock rotors are like $30 each to replace, its cost effective enough to replace them and go for harder brake pads.

I really want a set of Harrop 4 pots though. If you're going to do it do it right I say. At $3500 I think they are the best value for money going around. The PBRs are 2 pot front and stock rear.

When I spoke to harrop they wouldnt sell the front only kit. I got a cebco 4 spot AP kit for $2999 and they ROCK!

[xshore]

Heres some food for thought a VT/VX/VY/VZ V6 exec has the same brakes as a WH/WK/WL V8 statesman that has a HELL of alot more power and is more than 300 kilo's heavier?????

How stupid is that......

When I drove my bosses vt v6 exec the brakes were shit. I couldn't believe how much pressure was required and I doubted if I could stop in an emergency.

[HRT 8]

When I spoke to harrop they wouldnt sell the front only kit. I got a cebco 4 spot AP kit for $2999 and they ROCK!
Who'd you speak to??

I bought my 356mm 4 spot fronts from them a month or so ago. No dramas whatsoever with supplying just a front kit.

Ring Chris Simm @ Harrop, and he'll point you in the right direction.

[SASLS1]

Yes standard holden brakes are very insufficient to say the least. Had a VXSS and I went thru 3 sets of front rotors due to stress cracking in 40000km. They never warped on me, which was good!!

Mind you I did a few track days at Winton and Phillip island, but still, I was nursing them even with greenstuff pads installed. I was braking firmly but never any panic braking and you could just feel that I was over taxing there ability to slow the vehicle. Braking from about 215km/h down to about 150km/h into turn one at Phillip Island, I always felt a slight vib/hum from the brake pedal, and you could hear it aswell. This was with new bedded in rotors and pads.

Can't expect too much, it's only a family sedan not a race car. Replacing the cracked rotors with new one's 3 times at $140 a pair was alot more cost effective for me than shelling out thousands for huge brakes. Don't get me wrong, it would of been fantastic to have the huge brakes for the track, but for most people who would never go out to a track day, it would be a complete waste of money, just to have bragging rights at the pub.

My 2 cents....

[EnhancedCalais]

How many magazine features do you see;
Engine - 800kw @ $50,000
Paint - Show standard @ $15,000
Sound System - 10,000w @ $20,000
1/4 Mile E/T - 10.00
And.......
Brakes - Standard!
So long as it goes fast, and sounds good, no one seems to care about their own safety.
The first thing we did was make it safe (brakes, suspension, tyres,etc), now we are planning the best way to make it go.
Am I in the minority, or have I got my priorities the wrong way? :confused:

[Red-Drop]

Yeah the standard brakes suck big time. I went for the PBR pk1 brake kit and there is a marked improvement. $1900 from repco liverpool if ur wondering where to get em.

[BlueVZSS]

By182-Holden By Design is apparently a good package if you don't want to spend heaps-it uses the new C6 caliper,on the front,which is 30% bigger,and much stronger,than the C5 Caliper used in the PBR package.HSV performance brakes also use the C5 caliper I think.However Holden By Design have to fit their package,you cannot do it yourself.They also fit an HBD" build plate" I believe.I think this package has to be arranged through a Holden dealer-anyone had one fitted?,alternatively what do VZ Monaro owners think of their brakes,which are virtually identical to the HBD package,apart from braided hoses & slotted rotors?Cheers, Pickles.

Ok a question....I am looking to upgrade the brakes and as much as Harrop, AP Racing etc kits appeal, the price is a bit steep for someone who is unlikely to put the car on a track more than once or twice a year.

I have come down to choosing either the PBR PK1 kit or the HBD brake upgrade. The PBR kit apparently uses C5 Calipers and the HBD Kit C6 Calipers (I think that the rears are similar to standard in both). I am not worried about the price difference but the warranty coverage for the HBD package appeals.

The rotors are smaller on the HBD package but it has the C6 caliper. The published stopping distances look pretty much identical. Given the choice, which one would people go with?

[amckiwi]

My AP's recently saved me from having a crash (not an accident) they seem pretty cheap now!
I had std brakes upgraded to HSV now with AP would delete the intermediate step next time

Warning im in a VR your milage may vary

[chevypower]

when a 2.7 tonne diesel discovery pulls up quicker, and easier than a V8 Statesman, ya know somethings wrong with Holden brakes

[THE308]

Can anyone give me a price or a good contact for pads? I need one that can ship internationally as their not available here

Thanks

THe standard brakes are a disgrace.

I've got DBA Slotted Rotors (part DBA040S-L for left and R for right) and Police Pack pads (which are Bendix Ultimate) DBA STRONGLY RECOMMEND BENDIX ULTIMATE PADS WITH THEIR SLOTTED ROTORS.

The difference over standard is huge and also why NSW HP SS's have the same mod done.

I changed mine over as soon as I bought the car (new) I've only done the front. 70% of braking is done by the front, so I left the rear alone.

Can't remember exactly what the pads cost, but $200 for fronts seems to spring to mind. I'll have to check the dealer invoice I've put in the service book in my glove box and let you know if it is much differnet ot what I've just stated. The rotors were $120 each and well worth the extra $50 a corner compared to standard rotors.

[THE308]

Would definately want to change the pads but has anyone seen increased rotor wear due to better quality pads?? Just curious...

Police Pack pads will stop significantly better, but will also chew standard rotors. Fit DBA slotted rotors at the same time and braking performance will be way better without chewing rotors up.

The DBA & Bendix Ultimate mod is highly effective without costing an arm and a leg.

Unless you are doing regular club days at a track, I believe the big dollar packages are not jusified.

From the info I've received, a lot of the time the big dollar set up doesn't get up to temp properly and can even perform worse than the DBA/Bendix Ultimate combo.

[nemesis]

Thanks for that 308... will look at that as soon as the Minister for Home Affairs allocates cash ... hahahaha...

[dean]

The DBA rotors are OK - with Race Brake pads they have great stopping power, but a very short life span :(

[Mozz]

It needs to be said that the bendix ultimates really really really really produce lots and lots and lots and lots of brake dust - a search will produce many links discussing this matter.

[brh26]

Not taking anything away from the aftermarket upgrade, the extra dust from the Ultimates on std rotors is irrellevant to me when compared to the improved braking from std pads on std rotors. Besides, I have found soapy water washes it away easily. Bang for buck, I think the Ultimates, EBC Greenstuff or Ferodo 2500 pad swap is right up there for normal driving situations.

[Mozz]

Not taking anything away from the aftermarket upgrade, the extra dust from the Ultimates on std rotors is irrellevant to me when compared to the improved braking from std pads on std rotors. Besides, I have found soapy water washes it away easily. Bang for buck, I think the Ultimates, EBC Greenstuff or Ferodo 2500 pad swap is right up there for normal driving situations.

Yes standard pads on standard rotors = not the best situation.

Yes agree that better aftermarket pads on standard rotors = better situation

EBC greenstuff and/or Ferodo 2500 pads = significantly less brake dust than bendix ultimates

Many forums users over the past years have changed pads based solely on the amount of dust they create and moved towards an upgraded brake pad with less dust.

This message is meant to bring a degree of balance to a thread which includes people who believe bendix ultimates to be the best aftermarket pad available - take it for what it is :)

[THE308]

It needs to be said that the bendix ultimates really really really really produce lots and lots and lots and lots of brake dust - a search will produce many links discussing this matter.


Bendix Ultimate Pads DO NOT PRODUCE lots and lots and lots and lots of BRAKE DUST!!!

But, they DO consume standard rotors VERY quickly and produce ROTOR DUST. For that reason, I wouldn't use Ultimates with Standard Rotors.

I've used the Bendix Ultimate & DBA Slotted combo for 70,000km on both of our current VX's & 85,000km on my old VT, and have experienced better pad and rotor life than lots of friends and family with the standard combination set ups on identical vehicles.

The DBA & Ulimate set up actually works out to be a cheaper combo!

Bendix Ultimates and DBA Slotted Rotors are an EXCELLENT value upgrade combination, which produces no more mess than standard rotors and pads. The reason being, is that the slotted rotors keep themselves cooler than standard ones and therefore don't suffer the high wear rate as the standard ones do with Ultimate pads.

The slots constantly, exhaust hot air & gas, sweep the pad surface clean of any foreign bodies, (grains of sand etc) meaning warped rotors are very unlikely unless you really punnish them (eg. doing track laps) also meaning the rotor and pad wear more evenly too.

Just to clarify, when you use Bendix Ultimate Pads with Standard Rotors, 99% of the mess you see, is tiny shavings of your standard rotor being chewed up & brake fluid, not pad dust.

[nemesis]

One further question.. when you are talking about rotor replacement are we talking all 4 or just the fronts? and pads all round...

[amckiwi]

My experience the ferodo's give better stopping & significantly less black crap on my wheels than the ultimates did they also do not need warming up like the ultimates do
This was an issue as my first stop after leaving home is a downhill intersection onto a busy road and the car is auto
The ultimates would always stop me but the ferodo's do it no worries
Stu

[THE308]

One further question.. when you are talking about rotor replacement are we talking all 4 or just the fronts? and pads all round...

Fronts Rotors and Front Pads only.

I think I mentioned in an earlier post, approx 70% of your brake effort is performed by the fronts. Unless you are doing regular club track days, just doing the fronts is fine.

[Tonner]

Bendix Ultimate Pads DO NOT PRODUCE lots and lots and lots and lots of BRAKE DUST!!!

But, they DO consume standard rotors VERY quickly and produce ROTOR DUST. For that reason, I wouldn't use Ultimates with Standard Rotors.

I've used the Bendix Ultimate & DBA Slotted combo for 70,000km on both of our current VX's & 85,000km on my old VT, and have experienced better pad and rotor life than lots of friends and family with the standard combination set ups on identical vehicles.

The DBA & Ulimate set up actually works out to be a cheaper combo!

Bendix Ultimates and DBA Slotted Rotors are an EXCELLENT value upgrade combination, which produces no more mess than standard rotors and pads. The reason being, is that the slotted rotors keep themselves cooler than standard ones and therefore don't suffer the high wear rate as the standard ones do with Ultimate pads.

The slots constantly, exhaust hot air & gas, sweep the pad surface clean of any foreign bodies, (grains of sand etc) meaning warped rotors are very unlikely unless you really punnish them (eg. doing track laps) also meaning the rotor and pad wear more evenly too.

Just to clarify, when you use Bendix Ultimate Pads with Standard Rotors, 99% of the mess you see, is tiny shavings of your standard rotor being chewed up & brake fluid, not pad dust.
What Ever works for you,___ :rolleyes: Couldn't disagree more

[THE308]

What Ever works for you,___ :rolleyes: Couldn't disagree more


Why?

My perspective on this matter is multi faceted. I'm using personal experience of 228,000 km of real life use as a reference, (not including the more than 200,000 km my father has covered with the same combo in his Statesman) I'm also quoting engineering advice received from both DBA and Bendix and information received from NSW Police Fleet Management, (where 100's of thousands of km are travelled annually by their SS Commodore HWP cars with this exact combination) so I'm genuinely interested to know why you feel we've collectively got it so terribly wrong on this topic and why my personal experiences and observations are also somehow incorrect.

Just to clarify, I'm not interested in a pi$$ing contest here. I am however, genuinely interested in both receiving and sharing the highest quality and most up to date information and data for the benefit of all members of this forum.

With that same context in mind, I do not post anything I haven't either personally experienced or researched from sources with a lot more expertise than myself.

So I find the response you've given with rolling eyes, rather dismissive and certainly lacking in any substantiation of your perspective. I don't object to the presence of your differing perspective at all. We are all entitled to our opinions. But if you disagree, please enlighten us as to why, so all interested parties may benefit from your wisdon and be equally as informed as you elude to be.

[Red CV8 R]

I have used Ultimates a few times with different brake combos on different cars. Hated them, stopping power was poor and brake dust was everywhere. EBC Greenstuff have been my favourite pads so far but they are noisy until beaded in. I will try Ferodo pads next time.

[Tonner]

Why?

My perspective on this matter is multi faceted. I'm using personal experience of 228,000 km of real life use as a reference, (not including the more than 200,000 km my father has covered with the same combo in his Statesman) I'm also quoting engineering advice received from both DBA and Bendix and information received from NSW Police Fleet Management, (where 100's of thousands of km are travelled annually by their SS Commodore HWP cars with this exact combination) so I'm genuinely interested to know why you feel we've collectively got it so terribly wrong on this topic and why my personal experiences and observations are also somehow incorrect.

Just to clarify, I'm not interested in a pi$$ing contest here. I am however, genuinely interested in both receiving and sharing the highest quality and most up to date information and data for the benefit of all members of this forum.

With that same context in mind, I do not post anything I haven't either personally experienced or researched from sources with a lot more expertise than myself.

So I find the response you've given with rolling eyes, rather dismissive and certainly lacking in any substantiation of your perspective. I don't object to the presence of your differing perspective at all. We are all entitled to our opinions. But if you disagree, please enlighten us as to why, so all interested parties may benefit from your wisdon and be equally as informed as you elude to be.
Sorry you feel that way,I am quite aware that DBA wave the flag for Bendix as I have had a number of conversations with them (DBA) and have sent them photos of my rotors after only three weeks on my vehicle, along with a verbal confirmation from my supplier,who machined these rotors and supplied me with the Ferodos at nil cost to me,
I was not aware however the NSW Police were fitting the Ultimates but,Iam willing to stand corrected.
I dont suppose you have done a search to read other members opinions on these in such threads as the "brake pad review"
Should all members here take advice such as yours and mine to be totally correct then they would end up with a garage full of products that didn't actually suit their application,
Reading opinions and searching and then making up one's own mind is what these forum are all about you must agree.
I have been fitting and bedding my brake pads and or shoes for about 35 years now,with out any other real problems,
I have answered your post without a pissing contest ,but should you require one let me know,and I shall give you a preview.

[THE308]

I was not aware however the NSW Police were fitting the Ultimates but,Iam willing to stand corrected.


Ultimates on the front are a component of the 9C1 pack on a Commodore. In NSW they simply replace the standard rotor on the HWY Patrol Cars with DBA Slotteds.

In relation to other people complaining about the mess Ultimates make. Ultimates tear standard rotors to shreads, I agree with that and would never advise anybody do it. But with the DBA Slotteds the mess is virtually non existent.

But my point on that is, if you want to do it on the cheap and improve braking and only changing to Ultimates then messy rims and chewing up standard rotors is a by product. If you want to go the next step, fit the DBA SL's with Ultimates, get even better performance with less mess.

A lot of their expectations seem unrealistic. You can't expect your vehicle to A) stop on a 10c piece without somethng being worn, or B) get a million miles out of pads and rotors if you want good braking performance.

It seems like a case of wanting ones cake and eating it too.

[VooDoo]

I had Ultimates and found them REALLY REALLY REALLY dusty. They were about the worst pad ive used, would fade with some sprited driving and didnt last long. btw, did i mention they were REALLY REALLY REALLY dusty too. They were also in when i had the brake fire and welded the pistons to the calipers. I swore never to use them again.

Ive since gone to a DS2500 Ferodo and they are so far in front of the stock pads and bendix pads its not funny.